S.E. Tschritter: Getting Through Grief

S.E. Tschritter, author of, Prodigal Son – From Crackhead to Jesus Freak stopped by to discuss grief. We talked, we laughed, we shared our truths about getting through something we’ll all experience if we live long enough. 

Book: Prodigal Son – From Crackhead to Jesus Freak 

Book: She Told Them They Were Loved 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

If you're listening right now and you're a follower of Christ, then you, my friend, are a 21st century Christian. And if you're new to the faith or interested in getting deeper into it, you're in the right place. Welcome to the 21st Century Christian Podcast. It's the 21st Century Christian with me, Karen Beach. You know, I had a great discussion with today's guest, SC Schritter, about grief. And surprisingly, it wasn't a depressing conversation. Time for the 21st century Christian with me, Karen Beach. And you know, I had a great discussion with today's guest, Essie Schritter, about grief. And surprisingly, it isn't a depressing conversation, but it is a necessary one. Because if you live long enough, you're gonna grieve. And all of us will grieve a death, a death of a loved one. But you can grieve any significant loss, um, job, home, car, pet. All you have to do is listen to the show. We talked about it, we've done it, I've edited it, all you gotta do is listen. It's a really great discussion. So I've decided to spend this episode looking at grief and how to handle it. And no, it won't be a dip a downer, it'll be really empowering. In fact, let's go ahead and get started. Now, uh if you've read your Bible at all, if you're interested in reading your Bible, know that a lot of the stories that you are most familiar with are found in the first book, the book of Genesis. Creation, the flood, Abraham, the Tower of Babel, Jacob and Rachel, and Rachel, sorry, the beginning of the Hebrews as God's people. And the story that I want to talk about, Sodom and Gomorrah. Well, particularly the story of Lot's family. And even to be more particular, I want to talk about Lot's wife. You see, Lot was Abraham's nephew, and they were together for a while, but they ended up going their separate ways. They parted on good terms, but Lot and his family ended up in Sodom. Now that sounds familiar. You know Sodom is one of the two notorious cities that are always mentioned together. Sodom and Gomorrah. Sodom and Gomorrah. It's an interesting story of what happened and it's told in Genesis 19. But I'm not going there right now. I want to talk about the fact that God warned Lot. He warned Lot and his family to leave the city because he was gonna destroy it. He warned them specifically not to look back. But Lot's wife looked back anyway, and the result was immediate. She was turned into a pillar of salt. Now the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were known for their evil, nefarious ways. And Lot and his family were lucky to escape the fate that bestowed the rest of their fellow citizens. So why did she look back? Well, Sodom was home. Lot and his family built a life there, and I'm sure there were parts of that life that they would miss. I mean they stayed in Sodom, so it must not have been all bad. Now that was what they were leaving behind them. What was in front of them? The unknown. They didn't know where they were headed. They had to trust that it would be better. But imagine, you're leaving. It's raining fire and brimstone. And you're leaving right now, this second, everything you know you're leaving behind because it's raining fire and brimstone, and God is pretty much getting rid of ready to get rid of the whole city. And you are leaving, and even if it wasn't a great city, even if it was evil, you stayed. So there must have been something about it that you liked, something about it that made you stay there. And now you're leaving. And where are you going? Well, that's right, you don't really know. But it will be better, won't it? Right? With all of that going through her head, Lot's wife, and I keep calling her Lot's wife because she isn't named, she looks back just one last time, and that's all it took. Pillar of salt. Now in our lives, God often wants us to leave. That where he's taking us is going to be good. But often we're comfortable. Even if we're unhappy, we're comfortable. And we don't want to go. And God comes back to us and he says, I really need you to go. And you say, Mm, I'm really comfortable. Thanks, but no thanks. And eventually God rolls up his sleeve, pulls up his boot, and kicks us out and takes us kicking and screaming where he wants us to go. Yes, it ends up being better, but we had to leave first. We had to trust him. We had to go out into the unknown. We had to go through that time of being unsure and unsettled. But he's telling us during that time, don't look back. Don't want to go back. Think about when the um when the Hebrews left Israel. I'm sorry, when they left Egypt, and Moses is guiding them, and they're in the wilderness, and they're like, look, we want to go back and be slaves again. How many times during that story did people just want to go back? Maybe we're not physically turned around. But we live in our memories of where we were and what we did, just like the Hebrews, just like Lot's wife, were thinking about it. We might miss it. We might even long for it. But God wants us to make a clean break and focus on what's in front of us. Think about driving. Look at how big the front windshield of your car is. You can see everything and see it clearly. If you can't see it clearly, wash your car. Take care of that window. But I digress. If you're looking at out the front window, you notice you have in comparison a very small rear mirror. And if you look in that mirror, the place you're driving away from is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Here's the thing: you're gonna get an accident if you keep focusing on what's in that mirror. You need to focus on what is in front of you because that is your priority. Now, when it comes to our faith, we might not know exactly where God is taking us, but looking behind us isn't gonna get us there any faster. As Christians, we have to trust. Get excited about reading the Bible and getting to know God better. It's all over at conceptsandclarity.com. That's concepts and clarity dot com.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Did you know?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

The Bible has a lot to say about grief. I'm gonna point out four verses that kind of reinforce my point. The shortest Bible verse in the Bible is it explains what Jesus did when his friend Lazarus had died. The verse, John 1135, is just two words. Jesus wept. Jesus felt sorrow and grief when his friend died. Now, even though he knew it wasn't permanent, he still felt the loss. Remember, he was fully human. In Psalms 34 18, it says the Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the question spirit. We can rely on him to help us through our grief when our hearts have truly been broken. Now during the Beatitudes in Matthew 5 4, Jesus promises, Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. And finally, Psalms thirty-five chapter thirty verse five. It says weeping may remain for night, but rejoicing comes in the morning. Eventually we will get past the worst part of our grief. When it comes to losing someone to death, eventually we'll reach a point where we smile more at their memory than we do cry because of their loss. She lost him in twenty eighteen to cancer, but she tells the incredible story of his transformation from his perspective and how he suffered with cancer from her perspective. Grief is a real experience that all of us will eventually experience. And here is my talk with Essie Schredder. So I'm here today with Essie Schredder, and we are going to talk about all things grief-related and using and violence and profanity and all the real stuff that's in the world. And I admitted to her something that I don't really say out loud a lot of times in Christian circles. And when James died, Florida dropped the punch bowl, and she said, Damn, damn, damn. And like my best friend, like every time it goes something that goes harsh in her life, she's like, do Florida Evans. I'm like, come on now. She's like, Florida Evans. Just do it. Just do it, please. And I I did it. And literally once I got lectured for like seven minutes because Christian shouldn't say damn. And I'm like, well, damn, you heard the way I talk in my mind when I'm not around you. Just anyway, or when I'm driving, it's really bad. It's really bad. But anyway, I'm here with S. E. Shredder, and I am going to talk about all the stuff I just mentioned, you know, and maybe my Sam Jackson, maybe. But S E, welcome to um what is this show? It's the 21st Century Christian. That's what it is. So welcome. Thank you so much, Karen. I appreciate it. That's why I'm gonna do my second cup of coffee right now.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

I'm gonna go make another pot after this, I think.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

I don't know where I am. I really don't, but um welcome. And I I know right now you're remarried, but you just released a book, or you recently released a book about grieving your first husband. Correct. And grief. And one thing that um always interests me about grief is that it's something. Um, if you live long enough, you're gonna go through it. Right. You know, you can't really escape it, you can't get over it. Um parents, friends, everybody. It's like I have a high school reunion coming up, and it's not that late. It's sort of late, it's sort of not eight. Um I'm Gen X, so do the math. Um, but we've already had people that have lost their lives. Um, and as we get older, honestly, it's gonna happen more often. And I'm at an age where people lose parents.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Yeah, lose siblings. I was a I was a freshman in high school when we lost our first classmate. He died in a car accident on his way back to school one like after Thanksgiving break. And it that struck me really hard because we'd only been in college, you know, we all went our separate ways, but we'd only been in college for three or four months at that point. So that was that was pretty rough, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

And and and it is rough because even as Christians, when you know that death is not the end, that you know you will live again, you will see tomorrow. Knowing that that person isn't in your life right now makes a difference. I mean, I lost my mom when I was 15, and that means for the past so many years, I've lived, I I refuse to say how old I am. I do. Um, but what that means is that I haven't heard her laugh in decades. I there have been times, oh my god, recently, where I've just needed my mom. Where I've needed a hug. When I've I can hear her voice, when I can hear her saying something to me. But will I see her again? Yes, she was a Christian, I'm a Christian, I believe I will see her again, but it doesn't change the fact that I need to I need her now, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:33

You know, I and grief is a really hard goodbye. It that's what it's you know, there's a quote about grief is love with nowhere to go, but I and and that's true, I believe, but I also think grief is a really hard goodbye that you're not ready for.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

That's a good way to explain that because you're never ready for it. My mom was sick for two years, so we knew it it was coming, but it doesn't make it any better. Right, you know, it doesn't make it any easier to deal with. And how did you lose your husband?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

He passed away from cancer, and we actually so the story of the prodigal son is his story of he he was a pastor uh who relapsed into alcohol and got in a drunk driving accident, and then the night he got he caused this drunk driving accident, no one else was injured, but they were scanning him for broken bones and internal bleeding, and they found cancer when they were doing that scan. So that was a that was a pretty nuts six hours, I'm not gonna lie. Because I got that first call from uh the police officer at 1 30 a.m. Ms. Evans, there's been an accident. This is Sergeant Jeremy Reed with the New Home Police Department. There's, you know, your husband's being taken to the hospital. When he's released from the hospital, he's gonna be arrested for the felony charge of fleeing police. So that was 1:30. And then it was all just like one sentence, right? And then at 7:30-ish, 7 45 the next morning, I was getting the kids ready for church. He was the pastor, it was a Saturday night. So who was gonna officiate the service? No one knew what happened. So I was getting ready to go to, he had two churches at the time. I was gonna go to both churches and make some sort of announcement, like, uh, your pastor's in the hospital, and um I don't know, you know, like I I was just gonna um my whole way through it. I was gonna say, let's read a Bible verse and pray, and I'll let you know. So I was getting ready for church, and then the hospital called and they said, Miss Evans, we found something on the CAT scan. You need to come in right away. So that was that. That was September 30th and October 1st, you know, that night day uh 2017. And I started grieving his death uh on October 1st, even though he didn't die 20 until 20 months later. So it's weird, right? Like grief, you sometimes you can even grieve something that hasn't happened yet.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Wow, that is amazing that you can grieve that. In my mother's case, it was the opposite because I was a teenager and I was a teenage girl because I was born a girl, and I was always been a girl. That's right. Um, but as a teenage girl, you need your mom. And I just kept, you know, I was a Christian, I was baptized, I think, when I was 11, and I just kept thinking, if I pray hard enough, she has to get better. If my faith is strong enough, she will get better, and so I wouldn't let myself grieve, I wouldn't let myself think about what could happen because that would mean that it could happen, right? And so for a long time, um I stayed away from my faith because I'm like, I can't trust you, because you didn't answer the prayer the way I wanted you to, yes, right. I didn't, you were supposed to save her, and you didn't, and I prayed so much. How am I supposed to trust you? And what ended up happening like 20 years later. Later, I was talking to a friend of mine who lost her father when he was like 20. No, when she was like 20. Okay. And she told me, I said, Well, how can you trust God? And she said, What happened to your mother was between God and your mother. It wasn't about you. And she said, and if you look at your life, the fact that you had your Aunt Bessie, the fact that you've lived in all these states and you've never run into a bad situation. She was like, How do you think that happens? It's not just you, it has to be God protecting you, looking out for you. And I was like, Okay, I can I can sort of see that because I've lived in like seventh states, looks like I owe people money, which I do, but that's not the reason I'm moving. Can't find me. Yeah, you think so? I'm in California now, but I'll be in North Carolina soon.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

No, see you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Um, but I've never been in a bad situation, I've never fallen in with the wrong crowd, and I've lived gone to states where I don't even know anybody, and I met people and made a life for myself. And she was like, that only happens because of God.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Yeah, I think God definitely plays a role in it. I struggle, I struggle praying for healing for people because as Christians, we believe that heaven is the ultimate healing. So sometimes I think it's selfish to pray, like, excuse me, God, keep that person here. God, keep that. I'm not ready to say goodbye to this person. So you need to keep them here. And I'm not saying as a teenage girl, you should not have prayed for your mom's healing. Not what I'm saying. In Clint's case, though, in my late husband's case, I knew how much he was battling addiction and depression. And he believed in God. He loved Jesus, but he still battled addiction and depression. And so it was the struggle for him every single day to be happy and to be sober. When he died, I felt like God was saying, You get to come home now, Clint. You don't have to do this anymore. And I say that, I don't say that casually because I had daughters that were eight, seven, and four at the time. I had little girls. So I became a widow and a single mom of three grieving little girls. But from the perspective of heaven, if our treasures are here on earth, you know, then we're praying like, keep keep them, keep them, keep them. And if our treasures are in heaven, we say, We'll see you soon. Like it's and grieving was not I grieved for two years, and I was weeping into my coffee mug behind a shed so that my kids couldn't see me. So I had that hard goodbye. It was really, really hard. And I wept and I felt like I lost my identity. I didn't know who to turn to because part of my marriage was he was that was my identity. He he was my one flesh, right? That's he was part of me. So who am I without that? So I grieved absolutely, and I wish that he could have lived longer. But I also felt like God was like, you don't have to struggle with these things anymore, and you get to come home. And then having my faith, knowing that I was gonna see him again, helped a lot.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Now, you said something in the conversation we had before we started the show that really stuck with me. You said grief is like a hard goodbye. Yes, and can you explain that? Because to me, that that was so profound, it was such a profound way of looking at things.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

There's a quote, and I'm not sure who said it, but someone had said grief is love with nowhere to go, which resonates with me as well. And I in addition to that, I think that grief is a really hard goodbye that we're not prepared for. And so the person passes away, and you're not you're not ready for it. I had all these personal jokes with my late husband that suddenly I was the only one who knew. I had all these stories, all these memories that we shared together, and he was the only one I shared them with. So I felt very lonely all of a sudden in that space where I like now. I'm I'm alone, I am so alone, and I wasn't ready. You know, set the when people get married, there's that phrase, till death do us part, right? So the moment Clint died, our marriage ended for him. The moment Clint died, I still felt married to him. It my my love, my feelings for him did not just snap off with a finger, you know, snap of a finger. And I remember I had a a male friend from college who came to help with some porch repairs and some things I had to get done around the house. And his wife was very skeptical about the two of us spending time together because she was worried that I was gonna fall for her husband or something like that. And I finally looked at him, which happens honestly, but I looked at him and I said, I'm still in love with my late husband. We don't you don't have to worry about any of that because that's not it, that's not where my head is. And that's that was true for me. Like I I was in love with a dead person, I was in love with the person who no longer existed because those feelings didn't fade quickly. Now I say he was my friend, but at that point it was different, and I think for me you grieve, and it seems weird to say, but you grieve the things that you'll never get to do. That doesn't sound weird at all.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

You know, I grieve the fact that at my big age, I just got married two years ago. Okay, um, my mom wasn't there, right? Luckily, a friend's mom was, or else I would have done everything by myself. Picked the dress by myself, you know, did a lot of things that you would do with your mom on my own. And then my friend's mother stepped in and I was looking for because my husband is in Ghana, so I went over there to get married. I'm like, let's see if I could bring gifts to his parents, you know, and she helped me pick those gifts out, and I was like, You're the only person I have that really can help me right now, you know. But when I was younger, I'm like, if I have kids, they'll never know my mom, they'll never hear the jokes that I would beg her to retell me every time because it was funny. Every single my mom had ridiculous comedic timing. I mean, she could have been like uh uh she could have been like a a real comedian. She had timing, she knew like what to put in the story, what to leave out, like this part. You know how some people tell the story, they're like, and then it I don't remember what color the umbrella was. I'm like, is it important to the story? Right, is it important to the story?

SPEAKER_00 30:14

But my mom I definitely appreciate a good storyteller.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

My mom knew how to tell a story, and I'm like, if I ever have kids, they're not gonna know that. They will hear it from me, but they will never experience it. So there's a part of grief where you grieve the jokes that you can't tell anymore, you grieve the experiences that you won't have, but then you grieve the experiences that are coming that you will never have. You know, had I had kids, they would have never known the grandma.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Right. I felt that with them, I had several miscarriages when I first got married, and I felt that. Thank you. It I turned it into a book that helps other women, and it's the like thousands of women have been like, oh my gosh, this feels like a friend with me and my loss, which is the greatest compliment I could receive. So I'm glad I wrote it for their sake, and it was also extremely cathartic. The prodigal son was not cathartic to write, that was soul sucking, quite honestly. But uh, when I experienced my miscarriages, I grieved the babies that I would never have. You know, a lot of people dismiss miscarriage as oh, that baby didn't exist, or at least you don't have memories with the child, but you have dreams of what could have been. Right. When I got pregnant, we were like, okay, nine months out. This is what our schedule was. And so then we switched our schedule around, we switched vacation stuff, making all these plans. You arrange, rearrange the room, decorate the room, get new furniture, all sorts of things. Buy a new car potentially if you're gonna need like a minivan at a car seat. So you're rearranging your future for a baby that's on its way, and then the the baby doesn't come. So that was, and I remember like I remember wondering what you know what color the eyes were gonna be, or what kind of hair, you know, curly or straight hair, or things like that. And a lot of those dreams just were not realized.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Wow, that's true. So when you're suffering with grief, um, however that grief arrives, how do you begin the process of working through it?

SPEAKER_00 32:46

That is a really important question. And I think one of the greatest tools that I've used for myself is to let myself, let myself feel the feelings instead of trying to disguise them or camouflage them or stuff them down because our bodies and our minds and our hearts need an outlet for all of that pain to go. So if we're trying to keep it all inside, it's gonna turn toxic. There are people I know in life who never overcome their grief, they die sad because, and I'm sure you've met people like this. Woe is me, woe is me. They become victims of the the loss they experienced. Again, not trying to diminish anyone's loss, but loss happens. So if we can't overcome it, then the other option is for us to die sad. And that we don't want that, we don't we don't want their loss to turn into some sort of addiction or any, you know, different coping.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Only do we not want it, but the person that we lost wouldn't want it, correct? 100%, you know. So, like when I lost my mom, I knew I gotta get it together because Betty would have wanted me to get it together, right? She wouldn't, I mean, the best way that I can honor my mother is by being the woman that she raised me to be.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

I love that, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

And you know, she didn't raise me to be sad all the time. Like, people would ask me why I didn't turn to drugs or alcohol, and I'm like, because that's not what my mom wanted. That's not what Betty wanted. Betty, Betty didn't want that, and there are times this is gonna sound stupid, but I was dating this guy that I shouldn't have been dating. Okay, and it was one morning, and I was so excited because I had this coupon for a free Chick-fil-A breakfast. Yeah, I did that's what I was excited about. Yeah, that's good, and I hadn't seen him, and he'd been lying to me, telling me he was out of town and everything. Sam, I tell you the truth. I'm in my car excited about getting my little Chick-fil-A. I'm gonna get my I want a Chick-fil-A sandwich. And when my mother was really serious, she would get this tone. My mom was a teacher, so she would get this tone in her voice. I would call it extra teacher. I got in my car, and I kid you not, my mother was in the car in the seat next to me, and I was like, I'm gonna get my chicken biscuit, yay! And my mother was like, You're going to go to that boy's house right now. You will not get a chicken biscuit because you're going to go over there now. So I go over there, and some girl answered the door, and I'm like, Oh, they can't see my face. Oh my gosh. Looking for so-and-so, and she's like, he's not here. I was like, Okay, tell him Karen came by, and I got in the car. I got back in my car and I got on the freeway, and I heard Betty again. She said, You will get off at the next exit and turn this car around. Go back to that house, and you will find out who that woman is. And I'm literally driving, talking to this invisible person in the seat next to me, going, Yes, ma'am. Yes, Betty. Oh, all right, Betty. I did, I did, and I was like, Oh my gosh, she's here. And the moral of the story is we broke up that day. Okay, good. And I didn't get my chicken biscuit.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

I'm very sorry to hear that.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

I I think I got it later, but I I because I can't see me missing a free chicken biscuit, but yeah, right. Um, fat girl issues. Um those chicken biscuits are really good. They really are, you know. Um I can I can wax philosophical about a chicken biscuit, the fluffy biscuit, the in anyway. Um it's it's just funny the way that people who have passed on kind of can show up in your life, because that I was not expecting that. I was expecting get my car, get my biscuit, be happy, and then all of a sudden Betty was there.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Betty was there.

unknown 37:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

So that so letting myself grieve those feelings was just important to just let that happen and let it come the way it looked. And sometimes that was me, you know, working with my hands to try to just keep my hands busy, as busy as possible. Um I okay, so your story about Betty sitting in your seat. There's a cat, but not a real cat. And there was, I could absolutely relate to dating a guy that is not good for me, right? Almost every woman on this planet can relate to that story. So uh I was widowed about a year later, I started dating, and this guy was no good, but I didn't know he was no good. And this invisible cat started showing up. And like I could it would jump on my bed. I own cats, so you know the feeling when you're sitting on a bed and like someone sits down or jumps, like it was the size of a cat, but there was no cat. There was no cat on my bed, and I just felt this depression of like of the mattress going down. And then one day this guy's in my driveway. I had not told him about the cats because that sounds crazy, a little crazy. He's in my driveway and we're talking, and he he like looks down at the ground and he looks back at me and he looks at the ground. He's like, Did you feel that? I was like, uh, no. What? He's like, I swear I just felt like like a c tail or something brush against my leg. I was like, All right, all right, I'll see you later. That was the beginning of the it didn't end like that day, but after that, I started watching him more carefully and I was like, Oh, you're lying to me. Oh, you're not being honest, oh you're gaslighting me. Okay, see you later. You're your listeners can't see me waving, but I waved, I waved goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Yeah, I I mean it's it's funny because even after um someone goes, they're still with us in some ways, they're still there, and um my father passed two years ago. Um, and when I was in Ghana, once a week I would go to the open air market, and I would get a chicken biscuit. No, you're like you can get a chicken biscuit in Ghana. You I asked the girl that was helping me because my husband was like, Okay, we're gonna take this girl with you because if people hear your American accent, they're gonna charge you more money. So take her with you, tell her what you want, and get the food, and she'll get the food for you. So I thought you can't say chicken drumsticks. Who knows what a drumstick is? So I'm just gonna say chicken legs, girl. Why did I get home and get had a whole bag full of chicken feet?

SPEAKER_00 41:18

That's gross. No, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

I hid that thing so far in the in the back of the bird that I never saw it again. I'm like, this is terrifying. I was like, no, I wanted drumsticks. She's like, oh, drumsticks. I'm like, I should have said drumsticks, but I said chicken legs. She thought I meant chicken feet. Anyway, the whole point of the story is we were driving to the open air market for about three weeks. It was like my dad was in the car with me. Because my dad was from the country in Georgia. Um, he had a weird accent that I've never heard anybody have since then. It's like a fork. Don't call it a fark. It's not a fark, it's a fork. It's a bagel, not a bagel. Like fagel, the drink. I'm like, it's I I've never heard that accent before, but my dad, let's go get a bagel. You got a park? Prost me the park. So when I would drive there, there were different areas we would go through that look sort of country. And my dad'd be like, Oh, that looks like that reminds me of Catala. That remind I mean, I could hear him. It was like he was there looking at it. And after about and I used to always that those three weeks, I so look forward to going because I get to spend time with my dad. And then all of a sudden he wasn't there anymore. And I was like, what happened, Daddy? Where'd you go? But he was there, and you can't tell me he wasn't. But it was it was just uh a thing, and I think maybe God lets people do that because we need to get over it. We need to we need closure because, like you said, it's a hard goodbye, but it's things like that that make the goodbye a little more palatable.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Yeah, it's it's a hard goodbye, and we're not ready to do it all at once, right? So God gives us those gracious moments where we get to see our loved one and experience them in different ways, see them or hear their voice or see the sign. It could even be a I've heard so many people say bird, like they'll see a bird flying. I've heard my aunt Thelma had a similar thing when her husband passed. To me and the cat, she could feel her husband like laying down in bed next to her and like felt the depression in the bed. And it scared the heck out of her. She hated it. And so after the second or third time it happened, she said, knock it off, Ron. And that was it. That was the last time it happened.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

And I think that's why I haven't really seen my mother a lot because that would freak me out. And when I was 15, oh heck no, that would have freaked me out. It reminded me of something someone told me. And they told me this about heartbreak, but I think it's true about every negative situation you go through.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

The only way to get through it is to go through it. You can't deny it, you can't try to avoid it, you have to go through it. It's how you get through stuff, and you don't have those residual emotions, you don't have everything that you should have done. You don't have that trauma response when you go through it, and it stinks, but you you need to do it sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

It's really hard to let go of the past and let go of those dreams that you had and the person that you were supposed to be becoming, but we can't be that person before the death of our loved one anymore. That's not who we are anymore. And I think the people who have the hardest time healing and moving on toward happiness are the ones who cling to that past and want it to still be real.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

I can see that. Hold on, please. Let me get my dog quiet. Sorry about that, people. The dog was being crazy. He's been extra lately. I wonder if it's because he really needs a haircut. I wonder if after he gets his hair cut, will he be like, This feels like me? I can stop barking so much. It probably not, but I I I hold on to that whole Thursday. Once he gets his hair cut, he will regain his senses. But anyway, so we were talking about going through it is the only way to get through it. It's like you have to you have to be open to feeling the pain as hard as that is. Yes, you have to go through it, you can't avoid it, you can't think it's not going to be there because it is right. We're talking about how the like people who stay stuck in that past can't move forward into the new things, and it's it's funny because the day before my father died, I closed on selling my house, and I had no intention of selling my house even a month before I sold it. I was out of work. Um I was at a very bad time, money was really tight, and my HOA was like, oh, you lost$5,000 fast in two weeks, or we're gonna foreclose on your house. Like, really? Because I showed that I owe you a couple hundred, but they added in all these things, and um, I was like, I well, if I have to sell my house, I'll sell it. So for the past two years, I've been grieving what I had. I had a three-bedroom house, I had a car, I had all these things I now don't have. And I to what you said, I have to let go of that past. I had to let go of what I used to have.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

If I'm gonna move forward and get anything back or to rebuild my life in another way, I have to say, okay, I have this house for 19 years, and I don't have it anymore. You know, and I had my father for X number of years, I don't have him anymore. So now I have to figure out how to move forward.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Right. Beauty from brokenness. That happened to me when I moved to South Carolina. We were in Minnesota and I met my husband there, and he got transferred to Simpsonville, South Carolina. So we had a larger house. It wasn't as nice, but it was larger, and it so it was a better space for us. And we moved into a smaller house for more money. And I agree with that, I really do, because there are just certain things that I miss about my old house. But I have to trust that God knows what he's doing for me and my husband and my kids professionally. This has been one of the best things that's ever happened to me. So I have to trust that he knows what's going on and keep moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

And that and that's what I had to learn. It's like it's up to God what happens now, you know, and I have to trust in him that he said I came to give you life and to give it more abundantly. And I have to trust that he has a plan for me, and that his plan will all I have to do is have faith. And that seems uh like that's a one-sentence thing to say, but there's a whole lot in that sentence, right?

SPEAKER_00 50:55

You know, all you gotta do is have faith. Just just or when I was grieving, that was my least favorite word.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Oh, you just need to, you just, you just I call that you know, an uncle Jackism, because my uncle Jack used to say stupid stuff all the time, and I learned from Uncle Jack that the worst thing to say to someone is well, all you gotta do is because that is an invitation to something that's gonna be next impossible, all you gotta do is have faith. Uncle Jack, really? Well, all you gotta do is no, no, that's why you opened a pizza restaurant. You don't know nothing about opening pizza restaurants, that's why it didn't work out. But you said, all I gotta do is no, it's not it doesn't work out that way. You can tell my family's full of colorful people. I like it. Um, but yeah, that is something that you you know it's a sentence, just have faith, but it's so hard to do. You you it's something that people can just fall off your tongue easily, but it takes effort to have faith, it takes effort to trust and believe, you know, it's not an it's an easy thing to say, but it's a very hard, hard thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

After Clint died, there was a moment where, no, I wouldn't say a moment, there was a time frame where I wished I could believe God didn't exist. I was so mad at him, I didn't want him to exist. And actually, about six months, this is another weird spiritual thing that's gonna sound crazy to some people. About six months before Clint died, I had this strange vision of Peter in the boat with Jesus. Remember, like Jesus was walking on the water and he calls Peter out onto the sea, right? And then Peter loses his faith and starts drowning. So, in this image, in this vision that I had, and I was awake, I wasn't sleeping, but I imagine myself as Peter. So I'm walking out toward Jesus on these waves in the storm, and I get scared and I start drowning. Only Jesus doesn't pull me out right away. I actually felt myself, I felt the water go over my face, I felt my breath leave my body, I felt the darkness of death. And then all of a sudden, I felt like a hand pressing against my chest, and I felt lips against my lips, and Jesus was giving me CPR in the middle of the storm. Jesus was raising me back to life. And I remember waking up and feeling the like the rush of the water coming past my face and looking for Clint in the storm because I knew he was out on the water too. I'm like, no, not me, not me. I'm not the one with cancer. Go save Clint. He's the one that needs help. Well, about a year after he died, Jesus reminded me of that vision. And he said, Sam, I needed to give you the sustaining breath because you were the one that was gonna have to keep going.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

And that was that was my fa you know, that was the moment where I forgave Jesus for taking Clint because I I I knew Clint needed to go uh you you get to come home. I understood that piece, and I was also mad at God for taking him simultaneously. It's not easy. Grief is not easy, it's not linear, it doesn't make any sense. We think things that don't make sense, we do things that don't make sense, but in that moment I understood that God was protecting me, God was taking care of me, God was giving me my sustaining breath so that I could keep going as a single mom and as a widow and keep pushing forward into that new life and that that new blessing that he had for me. Beauty from brokenness.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

Right. And you only find that beauty when you go through it, right? You have to be willing to be vulnerable, you have to be willing to be in in pain, and there's no other way to say it. You have to be willing to do that, and when you are going through it, because I know somebody listening is probably going through this right now. Yes, it doesn't last forever. You will get through this. There is another side. Whenever you go through a storm, you have to realize that that storm is not going to last forever. The sun will shine again, but you have to make your way through it.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

Eagles actually fly high enough to get over the storm. And you have to think if you're an eagle and you're trying to fly that high, you have to fly through the storm before you can get over it.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Yeah, you do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

And that's what you have to do whenever you're grieving, whatever you're grieving. It could be a person, it could be a job, it could be a house, it could be a barking dog. Um, whatever it is that you're going through, you have to go through it. And in order to get to the other side, you know, it's very convenient to try to go around it. Right. But going around it, uh, um eventually you're gonna meet it somewhere and you're gonna have to go through it. You know, at some point you think you're doing okay, you think you're getting around it, but at some point, you know, it's like you're trying to avoid that bully, but eventually that bully is gonna corner you and you're gonna have to fight your way out of getting beat up by that bully. But that's that's interesting, and your book is a prodigal son.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

It's called The Prodigal's Son, Crackhead to Jesus Freak. And if people go on Amazon and they type in crackhead to Jesus Freak, it will come up.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

Crackhead to Jesus Freak. Because that's that's powerful, and that's your husband's story.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

It is, and it's his story, and then I lived part of that story with him, so I'm in there as well. But somewhere in the midst of his cancer diagnosis, he looked at me and he said, Sam, what are the chances that I would be married to an author whose best work comes from wounds? I want you to interview me and I want you to write my story. So I did. It took seven years. He died in 2019. It was published in January, and I prayed and I said, God, if before it was published, I said, God, if there's ever a cover on this book, it's going to be a miracle and it's going to be because you wanted it to happen because I am so broken. I don't know how to finish this. So it's written from his perspective as the addict. And then there are parts that are written from my perspective as the addict's spouse. So you see both of us battling the same situations in different ways. And um, I look forward to hearing what your readers think about it.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

Yeah, I'm interested. The readers, listeners, listener, you know, but yeah. But I'm interested in reading it from crackhead to Jesus Freak.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

From crack, yeah, crackhead to Jesus Freak. If you put in crackhead to Jesus Freak, it will come up on Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Um, and and you realize right after this call, I'm gonna put it on the case.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

There are so many books that come up with prodigal son, so it's a little more distinguishing. And it comes up with prodigal son too, but crackhead to Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

Yeah, but yeah, you probably get all those other books, but just put in Crackhead to Jesus Freak, because that's the uh I don't want to say the fun part of the title, but that's the individualness of the title. Um, but it's been so refreshing talking to you about grief and how because, like I said at the beginning, it's something that we're all gonna go through. So we better know how to do it. And the other thing I'm gonna say, and this doesn't have anything to do with anything, but okay, I just have to say this if you're dealing with someone who is dealing with someone who is dealing with greed, you don't have to say the right thing. Give yourself permission to just say nothing. Sometimes the best support is just being there.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:02

I wrote, she told them they were loved. Uh, it's a poetry book that has poems about grief and loss and hope and healing. And there's some humor in there too about my husky and some uh some limericks from COVID-19. But I wrote that as a means for people to have a gift to give grievers because we don't know what to say, and you want to do something, you want to give them something. So the best gifts for me when I was grieving were restaurant gift cards. Uh, because it they're no-brainers, uh, people have to eat, and then when you're grieving, it's hard to cook. So you get to go out in restaurant and have that meal. That was one of the greatest gifts. But she told them they were loved as another option if you want to give like a nice book to someone.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

That's yeah, that's uh so I'm gonna put both of those books in the um description so people can just go that you won't even have to type in crackhead to Jesus Reak. The link will be right there. Look in this description and it'll be right there. It'll be right there.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

I appreciate it, Karen.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

So you can you can do that, but uh it's been eye-opening talking to you, it's been refreshing talking to you. Um stories about your husband, stories about Debbie.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

I've really enjoyed this conversation, Karen. I it was unexpected for me too. It just I think that God wanted us to get together, and I don't think that the devil did. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

But it took us a little while to get together, but even today we are signed on in two different places.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

I was there on the other side, like, where is she?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:51

Well, but we we finally got together because they didn't stop us, so we had a point, and if like I said, if you're going through grief, it's hard, but it will be worth it at the end because and I can say this to you because I think you're probably there. You can look back at that husband that you had because now you're remarried, so correct, you you've gone on, but you can look back at your husband and smile. Yes, I can, and now and like like me telling you that story about Betty. I can tell you that story because I can call her Betty because she ain't here, because if she was here, I'd have to call her mom because she no Betty mess with my mama. No, but um I can say that story about her because I'm at a point where I can remember her finally, and I could remember her with a smile, and I can tell that story, and I can you know tell the story about how she couldn't cook and got detention in like high school because her biscuits were so hard that boys were told people, so I can I can tell her stories. Like if I did have kids, um, I just have a yappy or he. Um, but if I did have kids, they would hear all of her stories to me because I can tell them and I can have that, and that's something that you can have when you you never really finishing finish grieving someone because there are always times when that pain comes back, yes, but it it will be less, and there would be more good times and bad times.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

I yeah, I agree, I agree, and when the kid my kids do something silly, I'm like, oh, you just reminded me of your dad, or it reminds me of a story about their dad, and I'm able to tell them. So there is definitely laughter in the midst of grief and on the healing side of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

There is, but Sam, thank you for coming. I will put links to all of your stuff in the description. I do the rest of the show after this, but it's everything's gonna be short because this interview was so great. I'm everything shorter, so the majority of this show will be our talk because it's I love it. Amazing. So if you ever want to come back, just let me know.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

Perfect. I love that. Thank you so much, Karen. We'll talk soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:37

Talk soon. Jesus wept. This is significant. You know, Jesus came to earth as fully God and fully human, and humans grieve. So Jesus grieved the loss of his friend. He felt that sorrow and he felt that loss. Even though as fully God, he knew he was going to bring him back. At the same time, he felt empathy because he knew that Lazarus' sisters, Mary and Martha, were experiencing the grief from the very real loss of their brother. Jesus came to have a human experience, and you can't have that experience without experiencing grief. And so when I look at this and his prayer to God in the Garden of Gethsemane before he was arrested and taken to be crucified, those two experiences to me show his true journey into humanness. Now I don't want you to do this if you're still in the grips of despair. But if you find yourself on the other side of grief where you can have memories and smile instead of cry, try it. Because that person lives again through your memories. Now, if you like what you're hearing, feel free to donate at dollar sign Karen Beach 921. That is K A R Y N Beach Like by the Ocean 921. Once again,$nbeach 921. That's K A R Y N B E A C H 921. Now if you're interested in reading Essie's book, The Prodigal Sun from um Crackhead to Jesus Freak, it's on Amazon, but there's a lot of books called Prodigal Sun. So it might be easier. It's a lot easier to search for from Crackhead to Jesus Freak. But I've got something even easier for you. If you want to read it, I know I do, you can look at the show's description. Yeah, the description for this show, and you'll find the link right there. And I've made it just that easy. Well that's it. Join me next week where I'll give you some more to think about and hopefully some more reasons to praise God and to be inspired. Until then, bye. The conversation continues in the twenty-first century Christian Facebook group. Got questions, comments, feedback. That's where you go. God bless.