The Hi-Fi Five Episode 32: Getting Kids into Music and Audio

The Hi-Fi Five Episode 32:  Getting Kids into Music and Audio

Guests:

May Anwar -- Scientist, college educator, co-founder of M101 Audio and the creator of “Passport to Sound”

Steve Lefkowicz -- Senior Associate Editor at Positive Feedback

Joe Pavel -- audiophile hobbyist parent

Max Pavel -- audiophile hobbyist kid

Topics:

• Are headphones and earbuds creating tomorrow’s audiophiles -- or replacing traditional stereo systems?

• Could video gaming ultimately do more to create music lovers than the hi-fi industry itself?

• Is streaming producing passionate music fans -- or impatient listeners who never slow down long enough to really listen?

• Is YouTube helping young people discover great music and sound -- or distracting them from both?

• If we could change one thing about the hobby to make it irresistible to younger listeners, what would it be?

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to the 32nd episode of the Hi Fi5. I'm your host and moderator, Ron Resnick. Please like and subscribe to this channel. Tonight's guests, May Anwar, is a scientist college educator, co-founder of the audio company M01 M101 Audio, and the creator of Passport to Sound. Steve Lokowitz is the senior associate editor of positive feedback. Joe Pavel is a audiophile hobbyist parent. Max Pavel is an audiophile hobbyist kid. So I'm standing in the elevator line at Expona this year, and Max Run Max runs up and says, I watch your show. And I said, You're my favorite fan. So uh Max is the youngest fan of the Hi Fi Five, and I am grateful for his friendship and participation. And um uh Joe and Max live uh about an hour north of me, and a few weeks they came down and we all listened to music together, and it was a heck of a lot of fun. How is everybody tonight?

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Great, done feeling good.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Topic number one how can the audio industry attract kids and teenagers to traditional two-channel loudspeaker-based high-end audio? May let's start with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Uh Roland, I think right now the market gears to a lot towards buyers and not towards beginners. Right. So I think um when I I I'm new to the industry as well a couple of years ago, and I've always considered myself to be a you know, uh music enthusiast. But my first experience at the audio show was very different. I felt like an outsider because there was this language that I didn't understand that it was highly technical. So that that was for me a bit the biggest shock. So I I think we definitely need to change things around, especially you know, using the terminology, things like that. It should be about people.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Joe, what do you suggest?

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Well, me and Max kind of collaborated on our answer with this one, and um for him, it was that he saw the you know the young guy that is out there with his own speaker line, uh Chesky, and Max kind of was influenced by that, that he wasn't the only kid with gray hair that was at the show. And um aside from that, you know, seeing more young people, and maybe we can bring him in from other, you know, types of hobbies and things like that that overlap. Maybe Max or something like that. And it seems like a lot more people saw the um the opportunity to get into that at a lower price point than two-channel stereo.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Max at the show, how did you come you just did you just randomly come across Luca?

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Yeah. Uh we were just entered his room and my dad was like, yeah, let's sit down. Because we saw him at uh last year's uh show.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

And then we saw him at the film.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

And then we saw him at X film, and then I wanted to buy that people twice. I put him in my room.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Okay, so that's interesting. May um maybe young people are interested by manufacturers who are young.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Ron, could you say that again?

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Maybe it helps to interest young people when they see manufacturers that are young themselves and not boomers.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Ron, right now I think the the exposure to this industry is either through the audio shows, right? It's if it's not your own home, it's the audio show and it's or it's the dealers, right? And right now, when we go to audio show or dealer, it's all about the equipment. And it's not about the experience. So I think a lot has to be changed as to how we see this market, how we present this market to not just the children, but also the beginners.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Steve, what do you see? What do you think is the best way to introduce kids and teenagers?

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Well, you know, and and I just look back when I was a teenager, and there was no granted, there weren't all the distractions with video games and the internet, but like when I was in high school, there was one good quality audio shop in my hometown. Uh, they were the first to carry MagnaPan in the area, and they knew I was a high school kid, I wasn't gonna buy anything. But when I stopped in, they sat me down, they had records that I'd want to listen to, they'd play them for me, they'd encourage me so that I knew what I was talking about, I knew what they were saying, and it was something like it built an interest. So, you know, 10 years later, I owned a big set of acoustics. Um, and that carried on when I was in college. There was a bunch of high-end audio shops in Rochester, New York, and I was a college kid. They knew I wasn't gonna buy anything, they knew I might in the future. So as long as I didn't stop in on a Saturday afternoon when they were real busy, I walk in and they would, whatever records I brought, they'd gladly play. They would, you know, show me all the latest stuff. But more importantly, every one of them also carried some equipment that didn't cost a million dollars. They they had some inexpensive receivers and some low-cost turntables and speakers you could buy for two or three hundred dollars back then. And uh, and you know, now it's like you go into most high-end shops, and if you tell them you want to hear a system for three thousand dollars, they'll either tell you they don't have anything or it's not worth their time to set it up, you can buy it and take it home if you don't like it, bring it back. Um, they nothing to encourage somebody who's maybe not yet ready to spend the money to develop an interest. And and the interest comes first with their own interest in music, you know. So that's you know, and that's the other part, not industry related, but I think family and parent-related is develop your kids' interest in music by even when they're little. We started playing musical stuff for our son when he was like four years old. We had videotapes of you know tracks from Disney movies, and we found things that you know, we played Radio Disney in the car constantly, it drove me nuts, but he loved singing along with them, and then we were able to start, you know, splitting time between that and classic rock or or other stations, and you know, developing an interest in music, never once, other than jokingly, told him what he wanted to listen to was bad, and and you know, then we'd play it on the big system at home and he'd go, wow. So uh, you know, so that's I think an important part.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

May would you like to tell us now about your project Passport to Sound and how you have achieved success introducing kids to music with that program?

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Yes, uh Ron, I I will build on the previous thing, what Steve was saying. Uh, I noticed when the children were actually coming to the audio show in the room that I was in, there was nothing for them to do except to just basically tag along with the parents. And uh before I had this, uh before I started this project, the only thing I could do for the children was hand them the iPad and say, okay, pick up a song of your choice. And they would do that, and I would see that the audience in the back would disappear. So I I felt bad because I here I wanted the children to actually listen to their favorite song so they they understand how different it is on real systems, right? And so I tried to figure out what else I could do, and I came across an article written by Stephen uh Rockland, right? And it was about getting children into the music. So I started brainstorming ideas with him, and one thing led to another. And uh what we did was we came up with this book, it's uh passport to sound. Right now, it is basically just an interactive book that can be used inside an audio show. So when um uh a child is basically at the show, what they can do is they can pick up a book and they can actually learn and be a part of the show and not just somebody who's just tagging along. So this is how this whole idea started, and this is how the direction is going in.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

So, how do you get Passport to Sound into the hands of kids who might be going to the show Costa Mesa this week?

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Ron, this is where I need help from everybody because this is not something that I can do alone. And at the moment, I've been taking to the shows where I go with my husband, and the ones that uh enjoy the music sponsor, those are the ones where Steve Rockland actually uh distributes the books on behalf of the Enjoy the Music. So so we but we are limited, and there's only so much we can do. Um so this this is something, this topic actually appeals to every single parent and audiophile out there. So this is something that we need to do as a community.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

And what was that and tell us just briefly about the successful case study of that young young kid who got turned on to the hobby through your passport to sound?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yes, so um there have been there have been several, and uh it's um I have to wait to go back to the show and see what they are doing next. And I already am thinking that now, since they are already hooked on the book, I need to do something else. So there's always something different for them when they are attending the audio show. So right now the book is very basic, it just introduces them to what the equipment is, how to identify it, kind of like a scavenger hunt style. But I think the shows can be so much more. They can they can actually create an environment where the children are basically a part of it. They can we can have activities there stationed. So and and it doesn't have to be just the audio show. If you just think about the dealers, you know, dealers can host uh a children's night where they can invite children and just let them interact. Let them play music, let them enjoy their song so they understand what the difference is between listening to the music that they are listening to on the boom box and you know in the car versus toward hi-fi music is.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

I know Wes Kazir, locally here in downtown LA, has his music listening nights at Common Wave, but I don't know if he specifically markets to younger people. I should ask him about that the next time I see him because he does have those music nights. It would be great if there was some way to um get him to focus a little bit on kids.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Ron, we all have a part to play. We all have, we all can contribute.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Uh, topic two. Joe and Max, are earbuds and headphones some kind of gateway to high-end audio? A lot of the boomer dealers think, oh yeah, can jam is very popular. We can, you know, get our foot in the door in can jam, that's a way forward. Are are headphones and earbuds a a gateway in your view to the upper levels of the hobby?

SPEAKER_04 11:52

In my opinion, yes. Because um we all I spend a lot of time in the headphone uh area at Xona. And I have them right here. They're the little nobles.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

And so does the headphone.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

I think for the price point, it's more appealing just because you can spend a couple hundred bucks and get something really great, where you know, the days of getting a $200 high-con speaker that's great, it's it's pretty slim, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

But if somebody but Max, the fact that you're interested in earbuds, how does that connect you to the next step of thinking, oh wow, these earbuds sound great, loud speakers might sound even better. How do you how do you think young people transition from earbuds or headphones to full two-channel speaker systems?

SPEAKER_04 12:56

Um, more when they get a job and they can get an extra-old speaker that sounds better or as good as the films that they have.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

And I know you guys, I know you guys have multiple stereos at home. So, Max, do you specifically do yourself enjoy you prefer the music on the big stereo rather than the earbuds, I assume?

SPEAKER_04 13:16

Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

For me, I uh I got into hi-fi. I have an uncle that had three pairs of Lascalas, and we had Jensen's, I think, they were giant. And at 14, I started working and I had a lot of money for a 14-year-old. And of course, what did I spend my money on? It was hi-fi at that point. So I think it kind of takes you know, showing your family members, your your nephews, your nieces, what have you, and bringing them in and letting them play their music just to see how it could be, you know, because that's how it started for me.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Steve, what do you think about the notion of headphones being a so-called gateway to the hobby?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Um, I I think it's actually an important part. Uh, you know, with the extreme cautionary view of you gotta limit the volume, uh, because I run into way too many people whose hearing is shot by the time they're 25 or 30 because they've been cranking their headphones way too loud. Uh, but yeah, it's uh and again, it's partly because that's where the connection to their music comes from. Um, and it's funny how you can ear someone towards better sound. Uh, when my son was, he played youth hockey for many years, and when it got to the point where his team was, you know, the team he played on it, like the 12 and under, 14 and underage groups, they would travel. Everybody on the team had their beats or their skull candies, and they were playing whatever they downloaded off YouTube or some low resolution uh, you know, track. And my son had an iPod Classic. I told him we're not downloading anything, we'll buy the CDs, we'll put them on the classic at minimum 320 kilobytes per second, uh, you know, uh Apple files or at full resolution 16-bit. And I got him a pair of inexpensive Sennheisers, and they didn't look fancy, they uh they look kind of dull compared to the beats and the and the skull candies until someone goes, What are those? And he go, here, try them. And they were blown away by how good they sounded. And uh, and it's like so he knew right then better sound, and so you know, he yeah, it it works. It it's definitely the entry level because for for $200, not even, you know, for a hundred for a hundred bucks, you can go and get a decent set of in-ears or or an inexpensive set of over-ear headphones that work well, and just get something, uh uh audio quest, uh dragonfly, something to get better sound off your phone, and get a even a Spotify account. You the world of music at your feet, and once you get that, then the opportunity to hear it on a better system makes sense. It doesn't make sense if you don't have a connection to the music. And you know, one thing every audiophile parent has to remember don't get rid of your old equipment, save it for your kid. When my son left for college, he had a pair of Lincans, a pair of uh antique sound lab tube amps, and a docking station for his iPad, uh his iPod. It sounded spectacular. And nobody, none of his friends, nobody in in the dorms in Syracuse had a stereo system, and it's like, and he was set up. It just sounded great, and uh, you know, they were I had him sitting in a closet for 20 years waiting for that, and uh so yeah, headphones are definitely the uh the way to get started.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

May in the course of your research, have you come across the efficacy, if any, of headphones as an entree to the hobby?

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Ron, that that is like Steve said, that is the entry point, right? And I remember when we were growing up, everything was uh very limited, right? I I could only listen to the music uh that my brother used to basically uh play. Now with the headphones and streaming, you know, the problem is not about getting children into music, they're already in the music. Headphones is the way, but again, just like you know, Steve is saying, his son probably um helped other around him understand what actually is the difference between just ordinary headphones and actually actually having a real good system. And again, the real good system doesn't have to cost a lot, but when you get to an audio show, the only thing that we are emphasizing is that it is extremely exclusive and it is extremely expensive. And when it comes to headphones, I think uh if audio shows only even have a headphone station where you know children can actually listen to uh music on different sets of headphones, I think it will help them understand that you know there are different sounds associated with the different gear. And unless we give them this exposure, nobody knows.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Topic number three are there any experiences, sort of case studies that you would like to tell us about that provided a good entry point for younger listeners that you happen to know about? Anybody?

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Uh, there was this one uh young boy who basically I had a chance to meet him and his entire family and the grandparents at Capital Audio Show. So there were uh they were all going around from one room to another room, and once they basically came into my room and I was able to hand them the um the book, uh not only was the child engaged, but the grandparents and the entire family was they had they had a fabulous time. I had um exhibitor approach me after the show thanking me for you know as uh writing this book because it gave uh children an opportunity to interact with the exhibitor, gave exhibitor an opportunity to talk something different, share the love of the music and the and the gear and what they were doing uh to those children. So, so when uh they were done with the book and they stopped by the room, uh it was wonderful to see how how the experience for them had been just because of the book. They were all able to participate, so regardless of the ages.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Steve, any experiences that you're aware of other than your own?

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Um, well, I yeah, now that you word it that way, I was gonna relate one of my own. Um but when my okay, so when my son was in grade school still, a bunch he had a bunch of friends over for a sleepover, and their plan was to stay up all night playing video games. And one of his friends I knew was taking guitar lessons, and he seemed bored with the video games. So I just asked him, You want to come in the other room and hear some really cool guitarists? And he's like, sure. And I played him some some King Crimson to hear Robert Fripp, and I played some Robbie Basho and just different kinds, acoustic, electric, different, you know, guitar, and he was absolutely fascinated by it. Now, he is a professional musician now, and but you know, his idea of quality audio is still his home studio, he's got the powered monitors and and and playing off his computer and stuff. Uh, so haven't quite gotten to the point where he's bought you know a high-end audio system, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's a uh that that's happening. But you know, uh, but one time when you know, as I mentioned with my son's uh iPod, we both put high quality music on it, and we had a group of friends in the car, and we had a six-foot cable to go to the back seat so they could each plug into the car system and play. This was before Bluetooth, and one of his friends started playing something, and and and Austin just said, Wait, wait, let's play it off mine, it'll sound better. And he unplugged the cable, plugged it into his, and played the non compressed non MP3 version of the same track. And everybody in the car was, Oh, why does that sound better? It was that noticeable. And uh and all of them suddenly were like realizing there's something better than what they're doing. And even though you know they all had iPods, but uh and and so we ended up explaining, but yeah, we've had no multiple times where you know they'd come over to the house, it would surprise me they were planning on going out doing something, and we end up sitting, you know, flipping records all evening instead, and uh, you know, let them play whatever they want. That's still the key, you know. They they just you gotta get them to connect to the music, then the quality and and sound reproduction comes after.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Max, have you had occasion to introduce any of your friends to your stereo at home?

SPEAKER_04 22:44

So, like you know, you have friends come over and do you say come listen to music, or when uh we were listening to music when he came in, and then we would just want to go boogie board out of that.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

So not really. Say again.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Uh so my dad was playing music um when he walked in, but after that we just went boogie boarding. We heard like one song and then left. So not really.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Okay. Yeah. So what I was gonna say is all that extra gear that you know you got listed up for sale or sit in the closet. Uh we had Max had a killer set up with you know, Luxman and Martin Logan up until his uh baby sister was born. Um, but he had his own rig and he got his own collection of vinyl. And you know, you can't you can't let him play your most prized records, but give him access to it, you know.

SPEAKER_04 23:40

I did anyway.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

I can give you a good story. We we were in uh common wave, and you know, I have a I have an SME 15 table with a you know a good tone arm. Um we went into the reference naughty room, he went straight over to the anniversary table and was playing with the tone arm, and I was like, don't touch that. And of course, that is also what uh I guess Wes said as well. But you know, it's it's kind I I don't let him queue up records on so to speak, but he knows how to use it, you know. So you kind of want to teach your kids how to operate it. There's plenty of times that I've come home and it was clear that the system was being used within the big rig. Um but yeah, obviously you gotta give your your kids, your family an opportunity. I don't want to say let their friends come over and use it, but um expose them to it. You know, we went to a vacation in Bethesda, um, our family's from the DC, Virginia area, and we just were happened to walk into JS Audio, and it was cool. They they had the big X chronosonic system warmed up, and they gave us an option and said, You guys want to hang out? You got 30 minutes, it's already warmed up, and they gave us the tablet and let us play it. And of course, Max walked away stunned at you know, getting to hear a system like that. Uh, and then not only that, but also that set the hook in me and had me chasing after something of that level, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

You know, Max, I'll I'll sidebar with your father. Maybe we can get an XVX3 for Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 25:17

Oh, yes, Chris. Sam.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

My introduction to the hobby, uh, and this is apropos of even though it's a very competitive environment and dealers really need to focus on, you know, making money, the reality is the dealers do have an opportunity to take in kids off the street. Michael Kay of Lyric in Manhattan was famous not only for being a tough cookie on the industry side, but he was famous for bringing kids in off the street. That is how I was exposed to the hobby. I'm walking around, I think I was 19 or 20, obviously not buying nothing, and he takes me in, it was a slow Tuesday, takes me right to the back room, Infinity IRS 5, Jadish JA 200, Goldman Reference Turntable, Koet 2 Cartridge playing an album I play all the time here, reference recording, Symphony Fantastic, March to the Scaffold. That was my religious experience of an audio nature, and I was completely hooked. And then three years later, I went right back to Lyric. I ordered Magnipan MG3As, Manly 150s. I think I used VPI uh HW19 um turntable with an SME 30309 tone arm and a Sumiko Blue Point cartridge, and that was my first system. But that was a darn good investment Mike K made three years earlier with a kid that obviously wasn't buying anything. Three years later, I come back and you know, write a big check. So it's great if dealers can do that. And Mike K, I was famous for doing that. I've come across lots of people who have that exact same story getting introduced to the hobby by Mike K back in the day.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Yeah, same thing. Um, you know, like I said, with the story about my uncle having all the big lascalas, he was a huge Yamaha guy, which you know, in hindsight, I'm like, that's pretty good gear, but he could have done better. Um but I was the kid hanging out in the hi-fi store, you know, and I knew I couldn't afford a lot of it, but I had a job. And you know, those guys were were wanting to give me a deal and stretch my budget, you know. I ended up getting a pair of NH2 2.5s, you know, made in the USA, highly reviewed, and I think I paid 700 bucks in the 90s for them, which was a great a great price, but you know, uh it's it's tough to find, well, especially made in USA products, but it's tough to find value-minded products, and there needs to be some of that, even if it's not heirloom quality, you know, and you're paying for it for an expensive case or you're paying for exotic finishes, you know, needs to be some more NHT in the world.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Yeah, well, I'll I'll tell you, there's a lot of very good high-value equipment. Uh, I spent the last 27 years exclusively writing about it. Um, I I don't write about expensive gear. Um, and you know, on not uh well, yeah, um positive feedback. If you Google search Julie's first system, it's just a story about how I set a system up for somebody. Uh the total cost was under under $2,000. CD, radio, LP, amplifier, speakers, subwoofer, stands, cables, the whole works. And she's had that system now for close to 10 years, uses it every day, loves it. Now, admittedly, no interest in upgrading to anything else, mostly because she loves the way it sounds still. Uh, she's a family friend. We we still talk to her a lot and ask her, how do you like the system? It's it's it's amazing. And yeah, the whole thing was was, I think it came out to $1,700, eight or eighteen hundred dollars. And uh, you know, so it can be done, but you know, once an audio file is into the six-figure range of equipment, you ask them, what can I get? Well, what's a good amplifier for $400? And they don't have an answer. They they they you know, I I literally had somebody at the LA Audio Club meeting once tell me you can't make a $2,500 audio system because you can't find cables that will fit in that price range that work.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

And it's like Yeah, I agree with you on that.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Yeah, it's like sorry, you just turned everybody off. You know, it's like you know, you it's focus on on the important things, uh, and yes, you you can do it. There's and even American-made stuff. Um, there's there's good quality stuff that doesn't cost a crazy amount. One of my favorite amps, it's discontinued now, unfortunately. Emotiva, their entry-level receiver, the TA100, 50 watt per channel, uh had a DAC built in, a phono stage built in, and that sounded absolutely beautiful. Uh, I even ran a set of Maggie.7s with it, and if I didn't turn it up too loud, it sounded great. Um, and it's just you know, the new version I haven't heard yet, it's up to about 600 bucks, but still, it it's you know, it's out there. Uh, and I think audiophiles who are into more expensive gear need to know what it is. So should somebody ask, the first answer isn't a $50,000 speaker or a $20,000 amplifier.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

I agree. Topic number four is streaming helping to create music lovers or hyperactive listeners? May, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 30:56

No, it helps. Uh, I I don't think um there's a way to use it, but I I definitely think that streaming is the big thing. It opens up the door to every single type of music. You actually have an opportunity to even figure out what type of genre of music that you like. So it's and it is the way in for this generation, especially. So uh I would say definitely streaming is really important.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

David asks times are so different now, quality of portable audio, mobile phones, kids can go anywhere. Why should they limit themselves to a stereo system at home? Fair enough, that's what we're talking about. Topic five.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Okay, I I can answer that one. It's like because it's not an either-or proposition. Have your portable system and listen wherever you are to whatever you want, but if you're home, if you're gonna be home, why not be at home and listen to your music on a decent system? It's it's it's they're not competing, it's not one or the other, it can easily be both.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Yeah, headphone listening is not the same. I mean, we're trying to replicate a live venue or even live music when you have a two-channel system, you can get halfway there. When you have earphones on, it's clearly like a synthetic type of experience, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

I happen to agree. I I'm personally not a headphone person. I unless you have to not make noise at night. I've just never the headphone thing, just doesn't get me to any suspension of disbelief concept for me personally, either.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Right. We've heard some really good ones, and it just doesn't come. I mean, you don't get that punch in your chest to face, you don't get the the the skin ting tingling, you know. Yeah. Um, and you know, in regards to the question four, I like streaming because you can find music. You know, if you walk into a record store and you see an artist on the wall that you like, you're buying off of a picture of a cover of an album. And it and what does that lead to? That leads to you scrolling on your phone anyway to figure out what songs are on that album. Maybe you're gonna grab some snippets and sample it, where you know, streaming obviously is gonna allow you to sample that before you go to the record store. Um, I'm still a big fan of physical media, but obviously uh streaming is kind of a gateway to sport.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Topic five What role do parents play in creating future music lovers? Uh Joe and Steve have pretty much discussed that with respect to their kids. Any other thoughts there?

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Well, one that came up when I was on online, uh, and I won't mention which discussion group it was. It wasn't what's best for them, it was a different one. Um, and you know, I I posted about uh a system, uh, well, actually, okay, my son's system, and somebody said they've been trying with their kids, none of their kids are interested in in audio. And and I keep seeing this in different discussion groups, how parents' audiophiles, their kids are never interested. And my first question is always when they were young, did you ever play their music on your big system and let them just enjoy it? And the answer is surprised, it shocks me how often the answer is no. Why would I play? Oh, it's crap. Why would I play some some you know hip-hop tune or or some boy band on my system? Because that's what they want to hear. And that's what's going to make the connection. A good system should make everything sound better. And even if you don't like the music, even if it's not an audiophile quality recording, if your system is good, it will still sound better than it did on the car radio or on their earbuds, and that still will bring them into it. So every time a parent, you know, I hear an audiophile say, no, they never played their their children's favorite music on their big system and their kids aren't interested now. It's like, well, of course, you told them that it wasn't for them. You know, if they won't play their music, why would they be interested? And uh so yeah, I kind of pinned that on a lot of the audiophile parents that I've met over the years.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

My father worked in the record business his entire life, and he would bring home records from first Columbia, then Arista, then Atlantic, and he brought home tons of 45 singles, and I would play 45 singles. He had a very modest system, he was not into audio as a hobby. We had a basic Thorin's turntable, we had a Fisher integrated tube amplifier, we had a Harman Cardin cassette deck, which was a pretty ubiquitous thing back then, and we had the really ubiquitous JBL L100 speakers. Remember the speakers with the square foam covers? Because that's what all the record executives had in their offices. Every single one of those guys and women had that speaker in their office, and he'd bring home these records and I would play them on that system, but there was never any leap to the hobby because he was not a hobbyist. He, you know, it was just a basic utilitarian little hobby thing. And so it wasn't until the Michael Kay experience that I even learned about the existence of the hobby. Topic six is learning a musical instrument important in any way for developing an appreciation of reproduced sound? Who would like to take that one?

SPEAKER_03 36:15

I say no, I think anyone can enjoy it. I played bass for a number of years, and I mean I was into music before I got the bass guitar. This is right at the uh the beginning of the grunge era. Um, but I think anybody that loves music or can love music, um, it doesn't require a musical instrument. Max?

SPEAKER_01 36:38

I I agree. Um my older brother plays guitar, he played clarinet, he taught himself keyboards. Um and I tried all of those, and you know, sorry, when it came to playing music, absolute no talent whatsoever. I did play drums very badly when I was in late grade school, early high school, and uh, I think my inability to play kind of directed me towards becoming a better listener because I still loved music, even if I couldn't play it. And uh so yeah, playing I don't think really matters.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

My parents got me piano lessons, and I was a complete idiot. I didn't have the patience, I didn't pay attention, so today I can't play a darn thing, and it's a shame. But I don't think it really has any relation to the hobby, whether you play an instrument or not. What do you think, mate?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Ron, no, not at all. I think they basically have a different level of understanding about music, but it does not have anything to do with the with the love of music. In fact, I think majority of people who identify themselves as an audiophile do not consider themselves to have a major uh forness of playing an instrument or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Topic seven might gaming ultimately create more audiophiles than traditional stereo systems. Max, do you have um a thought on the impact of gaming on this hobby? Is there any crossover, any connection?

SPEAKER_04 38:08

Um, yes. Once I plugged up my brother's PS5 on my dad's big system, it was the best I've ever heard. You could have some running sound just hearing the bullets fly by your head. It was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Did you ever play like you did you play Call of Duty? Yeah, sometimes did you ever play Call of Duty on your father's big system? Yeah, so that'd be fun.

SPEAKER_04 38:37

It was very fun.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Yeah, I don't think you ever experienced anything like that. It's it's it's like a whole new genre of audio files. Like if that could there was a way to get gamers that experience, or even maybe something at Expona where you know they have a setup that's an immersive uh 16-channel gaming room, you know, just something you can wait in line or take a ticket, and when your number comes up, you get to play. I mean, people would get hooked on that, and there are a lot of people that that go that direction, not necessarily two-channel, but you know, they're hardcore computer gamers, and then they get the anthem set up or whatever to go with it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Well, it's good to have uh high realistic production shotgun blasts, but how do you cross that over to people listening to music?

SPEAKER_03 39:28

I mean, if you got it, it's it's a multifaceted tool, you know. It's not only it's not only gaming, but you can do home cinema with it and obviously high quality music playback.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Topic eight is YouTube and social media helping or derailing kids from getting into music or audio? Does YouTube and social media have any impact on getting um young people interested in the hobby?

SPEAKER_04 39:55

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Tell us.

SPEAKER_04 39:58

Um just on my home page and everything, it's just speakers just popping up. It's also because I talk about it a lot.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

But because why?

SPEAKER_04 40:11

I talk about them a lot and serious always listening to you if you haven't either.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

So if if somebody, if a young person uh hears a cool song on YouTube, if they don't have a stereo yet, how does they you know so what's the crossover connection? You hear great music on YouTube, how does that help you get into the hobby of audio?

SPEAKER_04 40:32

Because you want to play really good, but you can't unless you get speakers, and if you want to stream it, you would have to well, you would have to stream it pretty much, unless you want to buy the record or the CD or something.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

I think there's just a lot of really cool personalities on YouTube, and all my kids know them all, you know. So when we go to a place like X Pona, he literally like knew every one of them. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

That's fun, but that doesn't watch.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

That's how I was me too, though, because that's what I'm watching, and they're stuck watching it.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Yeah, but those, yeah, but a lot of the influencer YouTube people are not promoting listening to music per se. They're talking about whatever they're talking about, they're talking about components and reviews.

SPEAKER_03 41:19

I'm talking about music guys, I'm talking about you know, Big J and Mikey and Ron, you know, even Steve Gutenberg. Uh-huh. Like he knew all of them. He was like pointing out it's him. So anyway, you didn't have that 15, 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago, really. So now I think it's it's opened an audience that social media has that wasn't there before.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

So Max, do you watch any of the YouTube channels that focus on vinyl or music like Steve Westman's channel where he's always talking about new releases and things like that? Any do you watch any of the music-focused YouTube channels?

SPEAKER_04 42:01

Well, sometimes if I if we're just upstairs and my dad clicks on it on YouTube, we watch it, but not really me.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Any other thoughts on YouTube? May Steve?

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Well, there's a ton of great music that I've I've discovered from just flipping through YouTube and whatever comes up. It's like years ago when they were still playing in an office. That's how I learned about postmodern jukebox. Um, there's there's a great amount of music that they don't have record deals and they're not being promoted their traditional way, and uh you know, between streaming and and what you find, you just have to be willing to search, just start looking through. And if something comes up and it's music, check it out. If you don't like it, go to the next one. And yeah, there's there's a great deal of of music to be found that way. Plus, if you have you know relatives and and friends who have you know younger uh kids and and stuff, when they post, there's usually music in the background, and there's a bunch of bands and music that I found because my son and his friends would would post about it, or uh one of my nieces wasn't, she was in her early 20s, posted about, you know, she would post videos and in the background there'd be music and would say what it was. I was like, this is cool stuff. There's a lot of great music, new music that's out there that you're not gonna hear about in the traditional channels. And so, yeah, YouTube and stuff is a great way to find it.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

And uh Yeah, Ron, YouTube has really made music so much more accessible than you know, even a generation ago, right? And uh and it's it's the gateway. And I I'll I'll just share one of my experiences. Sometimes when I'm working or I have an app in my phone, which if there's a mu somebody's playing music. It actually shows up the name and the singer, right? So if if I hear some somebody streaming music and uh I like it, I actually save it and then I can play it on my, you know, uh at home at high-end uh music systems. So and without having these opportunities, I think I would be very much limited to whatever I have in my collection.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Topic nine. If we could change one thing about the hobby to make it more attractive to young people, what would it be? One change you could make if you snapped your fingers.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

Max for the bring MTV back. What's that? Bring back MTV.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

That's what I was. I was gonna comment on that about YouTube. It that you know, there's no MTV anymore. So if you want to find like the latest pop artists, you're kind of you're stuck on YouTube at that point. But obviously, price of entry for year, you know, we may know it's about honestly, ever so ever solos knocking it out of the park. Um, I feel like they're gonna take out the uh the big three, the sound united and those guys, um, because they're super easy to use products, they're very um they sound good so far, they've been great reliability-wise, and they're constantly evolving their their taps and you know, listening to customer feedback. And I am more of an analog type of guy than a techie guy, but after owning one or two of their products, it's you know, they're doing things right.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

Max, if we could change if the old folks could change one thing about the hobby to make it more attractive, what would you say they should do?

SPEAKER_04 45:46

It's all fine. I I like it the way it is, but I don't really know.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Well, you were very lucky that you had Joe to introduce you to a lot of this.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Yeah, he doesn't have a job yet, so he doesn't know how much it costs. Well, he he does have a job, but he doesn't pay for anything.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

Uh David David uh makes a very good point, and this is actually I'm a case study in this. Um, my father introduced me to music, but didn't introduce me to audio, and so I never made the leap. There, one doesn't necessarily follow from the other, yeah. Anybody else on one change we could make? What would it be?

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Stop letting the gray hair old guys be the gatekeepers of what's audio and what's good music.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Well, how do you do that?

SPEAKER_01 46:31

I don't know. Um, but to that end, let me just one more story. At CES several years ago, uh, my son was 19. He went into a room without me, turned his badge over so they wouldn't see the last name. He asked a very nice citizen to play a record, and in fact, it's a record I played at your house, uh uh the Jack John Jack Johnson album. And the guy looked at it, wasn't sure, put it on, played the first like 10 seconds, took it off and said, If you like that, you'll probably like this, and put Hotel California on. Uh, my son let off a string of expletives and told him thanks for nothing and walked out. And uh, and he was right because why couldn't he play five minutes? It's a great, great song, great sound, but it wasn't his audiophile fix, so the the the shot uh the dealer wouldn't play, or the manufacturer refused to play. And it's like you can't turn people off, you can't, you know, you're not gonna get new young people in if all you want to play are the same standard old audiophile tracks that we've been listening to for 30 years.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Yeah, I have a lot of people visiting in the room, and I have a literally firm policy. I refuse to D I refuse to DJ. I don't have any repertoire. I absolutely insist. Come look at the records behind me or have added on the iPad. I actually have a policy. I refuse to play stuff for people because I think the best way to get people into the hobby is to have them play their favorite stuff and hear it in a way they've never heard it before. So that's just my policy here.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Ron, I think the audio shows should have we should change the way the audio shows are presented right now. I mean, you walk into an audio show as a child, just imagine being in their shoes. The moment you step in, you're overwhelmed with advertisement. There are banners everywhere, pretty much all the same thing, right? And then it's like the same blasting music from one room to another room. It's it should be interactive, it should be an experience, it should be not all about uh uh music that you cannot afford, the gear that you cannot afford, you can't touch, you can't experience. It should be more interactive, it should be community focused. In fact, the one thing that I would like to change, if if the word you know, uh about this industry is I would like to limit the use of the word audiophile. It makes it sound so inclusive. There are so many children who love music, but the word moment you turn you introduce are you an audiophile, and I have an actual experience based upon this word. Uh, I used to I play music right before I start to teach. It changes the atmosphere in my class. And I had this student, and he loved the music that I used to play. So sometimes he would request that I play his song. So I would play that. And so one day I was like, Ah, do you consider yourself an audiophile? And he gave and he gave me a weird look. I was like, what is that? And there was an instant shift between because it and I realized that to him the word audiophile just you know that connection that we had about the mutual love of music, it was just shattered.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Yeah, it's uh it's exclusive and it sounds very snooty. Yeah, totally. I agree. Any other thoughts before we turn to the music segment?

SPEAKER_03 50:16

In regards to that comment about you know, make audio cool again. I do see that because, like, you know, in the 70s, 80s, I'm sure even before that, that's way before my time. It was part of uh, you know, uh of a normal household. Like, how big is your hi-fi system? And you know, that's wasn't even cool when I was that age. You know, I I grew up in I was born in 81, so most of the gear that was in my living room was purchased before that. And I can tell you that, you know, if they're not like me and they have a system like I do, or even a smaller version of what I have, then you know, their kids aren't gonna think that's part of a normal living room. So I don't know. I mean, it's obviously still has a huge following and a huge audience, but it's not going in a certain city anymore and getting some big wood grain JBLs like it was, you know.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

And then there's the other thing that younger people today tend to focus on experiences rather than buying things, which dissuades them from putting a lot of money into fixed cost capital items like a big stereo. Yeah, okay. Any other thoughts? We'll move on to the music segment. Who has a music recommendation for us tonight? I have a couple, please.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

We have some. This first one, surprisingly, it is nothing new. In fact, this is the first classical record I got as a kid, but it's significant. It's Beethoven's greatest hits. Sounds really silly, but for a kid, I think I was 12 when I got this. And what's important about it is it's short pieces of fun music from Beethoven. It's the first movement of his Fifth Symphony, the two and a half minute minuet and G, the opening movement only of uh uh uh the Moonlight Sonata, the Turkish March that's a minute and 53 seconds long. And then side two is the final movement of the Ninth Symphony. When you're 12 years old and and you have a big console stereo in the living room and you put this on for the first time, it's not a long drawn-out, it's not Bruckner or Brahms that's gonna put a kid to sleep. It's like, wow, this is cool, this is fun, and it instantly sold me on listening to classical music. And even today, about half my record collection is a wide range of of classical music, and that's saying particularly that album, but something like that, something where like a sampler kind of thing, where you get, and it's it was so well picked out as to what the pieces were, you couldn't have found a better record to give to uh to uh a kid talking about listening to you know look paying attention to what your younger relatives and and your kids' friends are talking about. I had never heard of Crangbin before. I'm hoping I'm pronouncing that right. And one of our nieces, again, in her early 20s, I think, when she kept posting things about this, and I'm like, okay, I've got to check it out. And I listened to it on Kobaz, and it was like, holy crap, these guys are great. It's just you know, three people instrumental, uh, and it's just great music, and it sounds great too. So, and I've I've got all their records now, and uh you know, so I have some others, but uh uh that's enough for me. We'll let other people.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Thank you, Steve.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Joe.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Uh I think Max Max knows all these. He's got copies of lots of them, but would you like to, Max? Okay. We brought Snoop in, but this is Snoop Dogg. Say hi, Snoop.

SPEAKER_04 54:29

Um the first one is Weezer.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

The box set. That gets a lot of playtime, especially in Max's room.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

And now are these rec are these Max or these things you personally listen to?

SPEAKER_04 54:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_04 54:46

And then we got uh uh Marley and the Walters.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

Wailers. That's Natty Dread right there. Classic. Okay. We love that. This is probably the one that gets played the most. The Queen is Dead by the Smiths. It's really uh one of our favorites, and I think uh my wife is tired of hearing it, but it's it has a lot of good referencing accents and I recommend if you don't own any smiths. This is the one to start with right here.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Now, Max, those are some old timer records. Or is there newer music? Do you listen to EDM or not really? We don't do that here, so it's basically piggybacking offing off what your father's listened to over the years.

SPEAKER_04 55:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:34

Okay. I mean, he's got ones he listens to. He likes Green Day, or I think Green Day is annoying. Um, but a lot of the albums that he listens to are obviously albums that I played once or twice and he really liked.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

So other than that, I mean is there any music, Max, that you play that Joe does not like?

SPEAKER_04 55:55

Uh Green Day.

SPEAKER_02 55:57

Okay, but even Green Day is pretty old.

SPEAKER_04 56:00

I know.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

I mean, like, you know, weekend or Floyd or any like the really current stuff.

SPEAKER_04 56:06

No, no, okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:09

His younger brother has a lot of a lot of artists that you know that I'm not familiar with that he'll play.

SPEAKER_04 56:15

We can bring him in and we'll ask him.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

Should we?

SPEAKER_04 56:18

I don't want to.

SPEAKER_03 56:18

Well, why don't you let everyone else talk and bring him in?

SPEAKER_04 56:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

We got one more.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

Okay. Anyone else for recommendations while we wait for the newer albums? May anything? I don't have anything tonight.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Ron, I listen to techno the most, but I get bored of music really quickly. And so I I'm constantly searching for new and new ones. And it is a bit controversial because um I play Rune a lot. And Rune has this when you play a track and then it it keeps on playing the songs that you like. And recently I came across this new string of music that uh Rune was playing, and it turned out that it was AI generated, and I and I really like it. Uh so but I think that is uh something that not everybody's comfortable with with regarding AI. It's it's a bit controversial.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

Does the music segment give us a specific album, specific AI artist specific album? What have you been listening to?

SPEAKER_00 57:23

Um I think there is one Lumify, but they are only on Cubos and nowhere else.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

And what are your two what are your two uh favorite techno groups?

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Uh Ron, I have a horrible memory when it comes to the to know the name. So I just save them and they basically it's constantly playing. So horrible memory when it comes to it. But growing up, growing up, childhood favorite was November Rain by Guns N' Roses, it never changed.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

Very good. Uh, we think we lost Steve. I'm not sure what's going on there.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

Steve, you guys are uh oh, hang on.

SPEAKER_03 58:15

You're all you're live.

SPEAKER_02 58:17

Yeah, Steve, you're black. We lost you. Um but we're pretty much wrapped up anyway.

SPEAKER_03 58:23

Um Alex has some recommendations.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Alex, come on. Tell us some stuff that's not 40 years old.

SPEAKER_03 58:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:32

Uh oh no, juice world.

SPEAKER_03 58:36

I thought you like juice world. What's another one? Be curious. What's who's what's some of your favorite music?

SPEAKER_04 58:42

I don't know. I don't have any. Oliver tree.

SPEAKER_02 58:46

What do you listen to? What do you listen to on on um YouTube? YouTube.

SPEAKER_04 58:51

Umliver trudy.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

Oliver tree? Oliver Trudy Tree. Is that what you said?

unknown 59:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 59:02

All right, well, look at the camera. What are you looking around for? You're live.

SPEAKER_05 59:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

Oliver Tree World. Okay. What kind of music is that? What type of music? Pop. Okay. Do you listen to um techno or EDM at all or hip hop?

SPEAKER_03 59:23

No, it's techno. We don't listen to techno. No, definitely. My brother does. And we listen to a lot of pink because uh their mom loves pink. Okay. I don't. Yeah, you do. I don't.

SPEAKER_02 59:36

Well, I'm glad it's such a music-oriented family.

SPEAKER_03 59:39

Very diverse.

SPEAKER_02 59:40

All right, this has been great, everybody. Thank you very much. Our next episode of the Hi Five Five is July 8th. We're going to discuss very specific complete system recommendations. Don't miss that episode. Thanks, everybody. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye.