Stream of Consciousness #63 - Kurt Bush

This episode of Stream of Consciousness w/ Dan dives into a fast‑moving, no‑nonsense conversation with coach Kurt Bush — a coach who works with people from every walk of life, not just athletes. We get into what real coaching looks like today: cutting through excuses, building trust, challenging people without breaking them, and knowing when to push versus when to pull back. Kurt talks about how he found his lane, what keeps him grounded, and why the smallest conversations often end up being the ones that change someone’s direction.

We break down communication, accountability, burnout, confidence, and the moments that test you as a leader and as a human being. Kurt doesn’t sugarcoat the job — the pressure, the expectations, the emotional weight — but he also shows why the work matters and how one honest interaction can shift someone’s entire trajectory.

If you’ve ever coached, been coached, led a team, raised kids, or just tried to show up better for the people in your life, this episode hits. It’s sharp, real, and full of the kind of insight that sticks with you long after the conversation ends.

Brimstone Coaching Group

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

All right, everyone, we are live with a stream of consciousness with Dan. And today I'm sitting down with someone who brings a kind of clarity and honesty that leaders don't get nearly enough of. Kurt Bush is a trauma-informed coach, an internal internal family systems practitioner, and co-founder of Brimstone Coaching Group. But what matters most is the way he helps people move from performing to actually being whole. He's worked in corporate leadership, he's worked as a local church pastor, and he's lived the pressure, the doubt, the expectations, and all the stuff most leaders carry quietly. And now he's doing the work of helping people break out of that survival mode and step into something real. So if you're a leader, an entrepreneur, or just someone carrying more than you can admit out loud, this conversation is going to get home. Kurt man, I'm so glad you're here today. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

I'm doing really well. Thanks for having me, Dan.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah, super excited to hear uh all about your coaching and just kind of your life story as well. Um so yeah, before we get into the work you're doing now, I just wanted to kind of start with not the coach, not the practitioner, just you as a kid. Where'd you grow up? Uh, what did it look like? What were you into? Were you the sports kid, the music kid, the theater kid, or the just the quiet kid? So yeah, just what did you what did you look like growing up?

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Yeah, thanks for asking, Dan. I I always uh like I'm a question asker, so I always want to like turn it around and say, What do you think I was, Dan? But we just met each other, so uh that would be an unfair question. Um I feel like you're a sports guy. Oh, okay. Is it the baseball in the background? Maybe uh it might be. Well, I would say you're probably wrong. Uh good. Oh man, great guess, though, Dan. Um, yeah, so I I grew up in a little Dutch town on the Mississippi River in northwest Illinois. Um, I like to tell people uh it's like a sleepy blue-collar kind of Dutch settlement. It was a logging town way back in the day on the Mississippi. Um, I didn't know this then. I didn't I know it now when I go back and visit uh my family of origin. I I know how beautiful the area around the Mississippi River is, but I didn't know it. I didn't know it then. It was beautiful. Um, yeah, I I was really into cars. Um I was really into kind of tinkering on cars. Um, you know, I was the stereotypical, like had a paper route as a kid. I had a lawn mowing gig and and bought my first car at 16 and kind of tinkered on it. And that was kind of my hobby. I work I worked a lot as a high school kid, uh, mostly to support my uh my my bad financial habit of pouring money into my first car.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Oh, that's really cool. So I I'm a car guy, but not in like the tinkering way. I would as a kid, I remember I I had this carpet with like a racetrack on it.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

And I would literally sit there for hours with my little Hot Wheels, NASCAR cars, and just uh do pretend races over and over and over again. So that's really uh neat to hear. So what kind of what car was it?

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Oh man, it was a 1993 Ford Ranger Dan, and it it was uh it was kind of my baby for a long time. I miss it to this day. I wish I'd held on to it, but it I mean it it was nothing special. It was what a high schooler could afford, you know?

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Um yeah, well, my first car was a 94 Honda Accord.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Oh, it's probably still running today.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

I think my dad sold it for like $2 or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

But uh so can I ask, Dan? Uh the carpet on the floor, was that lightning McQueen uh influenced? Were you a lightning McQueen kid?

SPEAKER_02 4:15

I don't think so. I don't I don't remember. I mean I can picture it in my head, but I don't think it was Lightning McQueen, no, it was just this just this track, and it was it was my track.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Uh so I want to talk a little bit about leadership in your younger years. Um was there an influence in your life where you were kind of inspired to be a leader or learned about leadership, or did that uh come about later in your life?

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, that's a good question. And I I honestly don't even know how to answer it. Um I I've been thinking about this lately. I mean, I I think I think into my 20s, I I probably looked at leadership as this sort of stereotypical mental model that that's like leaders have power and control, leaders know you know everything about something, leaders are the subject matter experts, leaders have all the answers, leaders are decisive. Um, you know, I I don't think that's uncommon, especially, you know, as you know, especially in the Midwest, I think that that's a pretty common thing. I I don't know that I can point to where I learned that. I mean, we'll we'll probably get to this. I I don't I wouldn't say I hold that today, but I think growing up and into my first kind of like adult gigs, uh that's how I thought leaders led.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Gotcha. No, that makes complete sense. Um, so I want to fast forward just a little bit. So uh after high school, what what were your goals? You know, where did you go to college? What did you study? And just kind of where did you think you were going with your life?

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Oh, Dan, the hard-hitting questions here. Uh you didn't know it was hard-hitting, but it's hard hitting. Uh so in high school, in in my high school, in in my senior year, the the school I was part of did a thing where students could go spend like half a day learning a trade, uh, you know, like work at a local trade shop or whatever. Um, and and I did that. I'm my family, I come from a blue-collar family, not not uh not an academic family at all. Um, I went and worked at an auto body shop my senior year of high school, and I fell in love with it. I I loved the work. Um I I loved the place. So I after high school, I actually went to a uh community college to learn how to do auto body work. Um, I dropped out when I was 19 because I didn't need it. I had a job. Well, I thought I didn't need it. I should have finished. There's value in finishing anything. Uh so I I dropped out of community college. I worked full-time at this auto body shop that I that I worked for in high school. I worked there for about two years, and Dan, I I wasn't good. I was not good.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

I uh well, you're talking to someone that can barely put uh windshield wiper fluid in their car.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

So we're kindred spirits. Uh so so I I got fired. Um I got fired from the job that I thought was my future. Uh I I wanted nothing more than to work on cars. I I still to this day I really love kind of tinkering on my own cars. Um and and it didn't work out. It was it was kind of world-shattering. I was I was 21, I was engaged. Um, I I had no college background to to fall back on. Um yeah, it was it was it was life-altering in that moment that led to other steps that I'm sure we'll get into in a little bit. But yeah, that was my kind of post-high school, kind of fell into a job after that, and the rest, as they say, is history.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Well, before we get into your next chapter, I do really want to talk about uh just kind of being from the Midwest, because that's kind of what inspired my podcast in the first place. I always I mean, you always hear the term Midwest nice, but like it really is true. Everyone is so nice here. Uh, you know, we're we're hardworking, we're proud, but not arrogant. So I'm just curious what uh being from the Midwest means to you.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Yeah, I I love the Midwest, Dan. I'm I mean, do I think the Midwest is perfect? No, but but all those things you said, like I remember those things being ingrained in me. Um I I'm grateful to to come from a a blue-collar Midwest family that like taught me work ethic. Um, like that's that's real. Like that hangs on. I'm 42, right? That hangs on even today. Um you know, I I think one of the things I love most about the Midwest is people's willingness to like jump in and help when things when things are tough. Um again, I'm not from the area I'm living in right now, but I've seen in the last two years. Uh yeah, I guess it'd be two years now. 2024, there were historic floods in this area. Uh like half of towns just wiped out.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was working at actually the United Way of the Midlands, and yeah, we did a ton of work with yeah, with that flooding.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Yeah, yeah. Rock Valley area. I mean, there's there's a lot of that that that happened really quickly. And I got to see communities rally around one another in ways that I I don't know what happens outside of the Midwest. I'm sure it happens. Uh, I'm not sure it happens to the scale that that I saw. Like I was surprised. Um, we we've had floods, we've had Durachos and tornadoes. I mean, I I I am proud to be a Midwesterner when I see people like step up and actually give back to neighbors um when when they need it. It's actually really beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Oh, I couldn't agree more. So uh so yeah, so you're fired from the auto body shop. You you suck at being a mechanic, apparently.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Um, so yeah, so you said you kind of fell into a job. Could you kind of talk about that?

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Yeah, 100%. So um no plan B. I had no I had no plan B. Uh, so I, you know, I'm trying to figure out what I'm gonna do again. I'm engaged, get gonna get married in two months. I have no idea how I'm gonna pay for my life. Um, a family friend or friend of a family uh worked at a uh factory about 20 minutes away from from where we lived that made glass, like architectural glass. Uh and and I remember him saying to you know, somebody in my family, like, hey, we're hiring out there, it's a good job. And I remember thinking, I am I'm never gonna work at that place. I'm never like it's glass. I'm gonna, I'm gonna die. Uh and I just remember like I'm never gonna work there. Uh so I I did. Uh I did. And I was I was 21. I was sheltered kid, like quiet sheltered kid thrust into a like a rotating shift factory for the first time in my life. It's this eye-opening uh experience. Uh, but you know, honestly, like I I I jumped in immediately. I I got some opportunities um early on in the production process where I got some leadership roles in the production world. Uh and and then about about three years in, I got invited into HR uh to do recruiting, um, to do all all the all the labor recruiting for the entire plant. Um and it was it was awesome. I I loved the the plant that I worked in. I loved the company, I loved the people. Um, you know, I I I resisted it really hard for a while. And then I just loved it. And I was there for about a decade. I had the opportunity to uh to be a production supervisor as well. I supervised a team of about 12 people um and then spent more time in HR doing recruiting and benefits administration and employee discipline and that kind of stuff. And um, I just loved it. I absolutely loved that that chapter of my life.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

That's so neat. It's so neat. And uh, do you think that really sparked the leadership that you're kind of building right now in what what you're doing? I'm not exactly sure what I'm trying to ask, but so it that moment in your life really shaped you very, very powerfully.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Yeah, a hundred percent. I'm I mean, I I I don't know that I ever knew what I was doing. I mean, I I think I was probably the the experiment or the the case for like underqualified people in in roles they don't belong in. Uh but but I I I tried to be a sponge, you know, I tried to learn everything I could from everybody I could. I I had a chance to work with a a guy, he's an engineer, was an engineer. Uh he did process improvement. Um, you know, so he taught, you know, how to look at a manufacturing process and enact change and make it more efficient. And really, like he taught me how to think about humans and systems, you know, like it's it's about more than just manufacturing processes.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Um absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

So I yeah, I I mean, I'm I don't look back. I mean, there's things in that season I regret. Uh, you know, there are things I didn't know that I wish I knew. Uh, but yeah, I I I think it I'm really grateful for that season. I mean, that that experience, not only did I enjoy it, but it it shapes how I should, you know, when I coach people now, like that's experience that goes into every coaching conversation I have with people.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

So cool. So, what kind of inspired you to move to your next chapter as a local pastor? Because that's a little bit of a change from you know HR to being a pastor, and uh faith is very important to me. So I I'd just love to hear about that because I think that's really that's really cool and kind of unique.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Yeah, yeah. Uh Dan, you should know I uh I I I don't stay still very long. I like variety, I like uh I like changes, I like new things and exciting things. Um yeah, about about seven or eight years into working in HR, um I I began to like wonder if there was something else for me. I I was uh my wife and I were part of a church plant. Uh we were heavily invested as volunteers in a church plant, uh, which is a huge time commitment and a huge energy investment. Um and yeah, I mean, I I I had some good mentors in in the church that helped me grow myself and grow my leadership, grow my faith. And one of them one day said, Hey, you ever think about going to seminary? I was like, No, get out of here. Are you kidding me? I'm like 35. You know? Uh so yeah, I I brush it off because like, why would I go? I've I've never gone to college. Why am I gonna go to seminary now? Uh so I brush it off, and there there was there was just a number of those conversations that happened with some other people that I just couldn't ignore. I mean, I think I kind of knew seminary was coming. I I think I was I was enjoying the leadership, the volunteer leadership I was getting to do in this church plant. I was I was really feeling energy around it, feeling like I was I was good at it. Um, and and yeah, I mean, some things fell right that I could uh get into seminary as a second career person without an undergrad degree. Uh and the doors kind of opened up, as they say. And I, yeah, as a second career, decided I'm gonna go to seminary. Uh yeah, pretty wide. I mean, I mean, it was like two years worth of discerning and trying to understand what was the right move. But um, yeah, there were just too many, too many of those instances where I just really felt like this is where I need to be headed and leaning.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

That's a beautiful story. And uh I'm actually gonna go off script. So I've I've interviewed one pastor before, and he kind of talked about his seminary experience. And just as a Catholic myself, I I don't know what seminary looks like. So could you just kind of share what actual you know how that you know, the study plan, just kind of the path, how all that all goes.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yep, yep. And every seminary is different. So I I I'll share mine, uh, which I'm obviously biased and partial to. Uh so I yeah, I went to uh it was it's called Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan. Um and and their philosophy, it's it's a five-year program, actually, and and that they have one main philosophy that seminary is about forming pastors, um, like forming a whole human, uh, not simply just gaining a bunch of knowledge. And I I like I did experience that. Like I experienced a formation that was beyond just an understanding of of any sort of text or any sort of like language. I mean, I had to learn languages, I had to learn Greek and Hebrew, um, which I don't know that I could translate them today, if I'm honest, but I did have to learn them and translate them. Uh, but but again, like they focused on self-awareness and emotional health. They focused on uh, you know, how how do how do we as future pastors uh begin to like be aware of ourselves so that we can serve others well? You know, their their philosophy is that um that that if if a pastor's unaware of themselves or what they need or what they or what they're carrying in to a local church, that they will harm a local church. Uh so it really for them for Western Theological Seminary, it really was about a full formation that happened to include some academics, uh, but but really like forming a whole human, not just forming a brain.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

It's it that's just so cool to hear because I don't think people realize how much uh time and effort goes into being uh you know a pastor, regardless of the denomination. So I I love that that we got to share that and my computer weird. Why is my computer being weird? Give me a second, I apologize. So now you're a pastor, you're enjoying it, I'm assuming, and now you're a co-founder of Brumistone Coaching Group. So I know you said you you know you can't sit still and stay somewhere for once, but was there like a sense of I don't know, like what was the drive to start that?

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, a couple things are true. I I I served in my first pastoral role from 2017 to 2019, and it was very hard. Um not not a great fit. Like it was maybe the toughest two years of of my working life, even back into high school. Um from there, we we ended up here in Northwest Iowa where we are now. Um, and I served as a second campus pastor of a church. So a well-established church was launching a second campus that was actually gonna be in the building of another church that had just closed. So church closes, we come in and start a second campus in this in this old building with with some old with some of the people too. Um, we launched that campus in uh on January 1st of 2020. And and I don't know if you remember 2020. Uh, there was a lot of stuff going on in 2020.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Uh uh yeah, that was uh it was a pretty crazy year.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yes, yes. It it was maybe the worst time uh that I can think of to launch a second campus of a church was January 1, 2020. Um so so we were already doing this hard thing where one church is closed and we are trying to kind of build a new culture and a new church in its place. Um that's that's hard, right? Culture building is hard. Now there's a pandemic, there was also some sort of denominational strife going on at the at the same time. And and what I learned in like it was very hard. Again, like some of the hardest working years of of my life. Um there was there was a moment where I realized what I loved about that hard, as hard as it was what I loved was helping my volunteer leaders manage their own anxiety, um, helping them navigate the emotions of doing the hard and not knowing you know what's coming up next, and realizing like we're in this unprecedented time of a pandemic. Like, I loved coaching those leaders. Um and and you know, building culture. I I love the the culture building work that I got to do. What happened is then 2022, 2023 came, and the culture that that we were trying to build was taking place, it was taking hold. And I wasn't getting to coach these leaders as much because they were kind of living into the culture that that we built. Um and and what I realized was the church needed an organizational leader more so than a culture builder and a coach. Um and and frankly, I I am not a I'm not an organizational leader. Today. I could probably learn it. I could probably get there. I I don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

That's not that like I'm I'm not a you know, cast a vision run out front kind of leader. Like I know I know my skill set and that's not it, and it doesn't bring me life. Uh so so I saw my coaching opportunities in the church I was leading, I saw them dwindle, I saw them get fewer and far between. Uh so we uh my friend and I kind of started dabbling in coaching and seeing if we could make a go at it. And and it came a point when it was really clear that um that I needed a change so that I could flex some of the more some of the more coaching muscles I had, but the church also needed, you know, the the church needed someone that could lead, you know, lead a whole organization. Uh so the time was right for both both me and for the church. Uh and in 2024, I stepped away and said, here we go, we're gonna dive into this new venture together.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

That's that's incredible. Yeah, uh that's just life, though. I when you said like you started January 1, 2020, like I don't think you could pick a worse date if you could try.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

No, no, no, no. We my family and I moved, we moved into a new community like December 7th of 2019. So yeah, just a perfect storm of all the things.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Oh, but it all worked out. So I I really want to talk about. I saw on your profile the E plus R equals T, um, which is encounter plus reflection equals transformation. So uh for people hearing that for the first time, what does that mean in practice?

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Yeah, thanks for asking. Um so all of our work is centered around the idea that transformation is possible. Um, and transformation takes a long time. Um, I wish it was overnight for me. It hasn't ever been, and I don't think it is for anybody, but uh man, if it was, it'd be great. We we think the road to transformation is reflecting on these encounters, as you said. And when we say encounters, we mean uh that that an encounter is anything that happens in our day that causes us to react in ways that surprise us or cause us to lash out or maybe like withdraw in or you know, respond in a way that isn't the way we prefer. Uh, we think those are encounters, and we think we have dozens of those a day, whether we're aware of it or not. We think we have dozens of them a day. Um, the the beauty then is if we can pause and reflect on those encounters, um, now as adults, we can see it. We can see the ways that we responded, we can see the ways we showed up. And once we see it, now we have a choice. Uh, we have a choice to either ignore it or we have a choice to do the work to step in to actually make it different the next time we have that encounter.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Gotcha. Well, I just thought that's really cool because I'm I'm a very nerdy math person, so like seeing like an equation like that, but also how it can kind of help me, I just thought it was really neat. And uh do you think your time as a pastor kind of helped you coach in a way like I think transformation is a very it's kind of a faithful religious word, in my opinion. So do you think that kind of had an effect on the work you're doing today?

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I I'm glad you asked it. I mean, I I think you know, our coaching practice is not explicitly Christian. Um I'm I'm still an ordained minister. My business partner is also an ordained minister serving in a local church, even still. Um you know, I think I think what I would tell you is that the basis of the work is that we believe that God desires shalom in the world, that shalom is that all things have right relationships with each other, and and that's me to you, me to myself, me to creation, and me to God, right? That that that that that idea that that is God's purpose for the world really is sort of the driver for the work that we do. And you know, again, we we don't couch that explicitly in a Christian coaching mindset, but I I think even though that's like that's where our work comes from, I think that's helpful for the world even without the explicitly religious uh undertone, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

I love that. That's that's cool. So ca because it keeps it for people who maybe you know aren't religious, they can still, you know, use your your services and things like that, but you can still kind of base it off of that. So I think that's really neat. Yeah, um so yeah. So before we move into the uh I I do want to talk about your book and your podcast as well, but uh before that, I really wanted to zoom out for a second. So we've been talking about you know leadership and adults, um but I'm curious about how kids can be leaders as well. Obviously not in the corporate sense, but you know, the way they show up in the classroom, the way they handle responsibility, and just for all the parents listening, you know, how do we help our kids to you know be leaders, you know, whether it's in the classroom, on the basketball court, in the band room, etc. Do you have any any advice or things like that?

SPEAKER_00 27:44

I love I love that question, Dan. Uh you're you're pretty good as a as a professional question asker, you're a good question asker, Dan. Uh yeah, so I I have two teenagers. Um, so we're like in this, we're in this right now. Um I I would define a leader as anyone who has someone following them, right? I think there is a potential that you know people can have this myth of like a leader is a given employment title. I I think anybody that has someone that looks at them or follows them is a leader, whether they choose to or not. Um, and so I think kids, a 100% kids fall into this category of like some of these kids are leaders, whether they know it or not. Um, yeah, so here's how I frame this with my kids. Um, and it's the same as adults. When we talk to adults, we we think about like authentic leadership, not authenticity in a sense of like, you know what, I got a short temper, take me or leave me. Like, that's not how we think about authenticity. We think about authenticity as aligning our leadership and our lives with who and how we want to be, um, and who and how we're created to be. So I think the same is true for my kids, right? Or for anybody's kids. A conversation we have in our house a lot is like, you know, at school, when when somebody's engaging in something you don't want to be a part of, like, how who and how do you want to be? You know, or when somebody, when you see somebody getting bullied, who and how do you want to be? Or when they're, I mean, I don't know, this kind of Gen Z like super cynicism all the time that that my teenagers have, like, who and how do you want to be? You know? Um, so I I think that question uh tra I think that transfers down to kids. I mean, certainly the ability to answer that is different, right? My my 13-year-old can't answer that question the same way that I can or you can. Uh, but I think on some level, they can still answer the question in these situations at school, who and how do I want to be? Uh, and align that with what the reality is, what the the real lived experience is more and more every day. Now, I think we get it wrong. Like, I get it wrong, you know. Um, we we miss it or we mess it up or we drop the ball, if you want to use a a metaphor. Uh I think it's okay. I leaders do that. Um, but then we get to try again tomorrow, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Yeah, well, I just thought that was an important question because uh I don't know, I'm not a parent myself, but I just I just remember in high school, like you know, seeing the kid who was bullied, like you said, or the someone who is a different ethnicity that people were afraid of because they dress differently or talk differently, and that just was never important to me because I just wanted to make them feel just a part of like you're a human being. So I don't know, it was just an important question I thought I would ask. So I I'm gonna give you the floor to talk about your book. Uh it's co-authored, it's called Live Fully, Lead Authentically. So, yeah, so how did that book come about? And for people who haven't read it, what's kind of the heart of the book?

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yep. So, yeah, thanks for asking. Um Dan, I feel like I need to start asking you some questions, by the way. Like, I've I feel like I want to start asking Dan some questions. Um You can ask me whatever you want. I'm an open book. Okay, oh, I see what you did there in the book conversation.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Uh yeah, so even though I I didn't even know I did that.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

You're expert level host here. Uh yeah, so as co-authored with my business partner, Chris Godfredson is my coaching business partner. He's also one of my best friends. Um, he and I wrote this book. Boy, I guess it's been almost two years since we started writing it now. Um, I had stepped away from pastoring. Um, and if I'm most honest with you, Dan, like there was a part of me like I didn't get to write as much as I was getting to. I like to write. Uh, and you know, writing a sermon every week kind of scratches that itch. Uh then stepping away, I realized like, I man, I don't, I'm not writing anymore. Uh, so part of the motivation was like, I just want to write something and I want to write it with my friend. Um, like that really was as simple, like that's how the conversation started. Like, maybe we should write something together. Uh, you know, what do we want to write? Like that conversation happened, but really what we wanted to capture in the book is our coaching philosophy and the why and the how we do what we do. Um there's there's so many resources, Dan, uh, on how like how to do the tactical, practical things of leadership, you know, like the 21 laws or whatever. I mean, I'm not I don't want to throw any shade at them, but there's a lot of those like do these things as a leader. Um we we just our philosophy is based on um you know, how do you be as a leader? Like we we didn't want to be we don't want to be another voice that's telling leaders what to do. There's an there's enough of those and really good ones. Uh and and we wanted our book to really capture um what does it mean to think about being a leader and then how do we help people get there? It really is like a you know, like here's an entry into Brimstone Coaching Group, and here's an entry into you know, the most transparent look at who we are and why and how we do what we do.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Well, I can't wait to purchase a copy and read it, and we'll get to how everyone can access that book here in a little bit, but it's just funny because in my spare time I've actually written two novellas.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Okay. Tell me more. Okay, you gotta say more about that.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

Well, so it's they're they're kind of for like the middle school level, maybe like 12 to 4, like maybe even 10 to 14, nothing too crazy. Uh one's about a kid who goes to a a a school for uh misfit magician or not magicians, misfit musicians. And it's just I don't know, it's just fun and playful. And then the other one is about uh a kid named Ronald McDonald, and I'm not making that up, and he actually works at McDonald's and uh the the school starts a class that's it kind of like a cooking competition, and uh they're kind of just like coming of age and just happy, upbeat, light things. It's it's just fun to write, like you said, it's just really neat. So I'm really excited to get those edited and hopefully published somewhere. So so yeah, uh you know, I love I love reading as well. Like that's why I I love interviewing people who have have written books because I love uh you know buying their books and reading a reading them. So yeah, if you want to ask me any questions, you go ahead. I'm like I said, you can do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Uh were were you the music kid, Dan?

SPEAKER_02 35:10

I was both sports and music. I was definitely better at music, but I liked sports more originally growing up, but I wasn't very good at them.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

What do you play?

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Uh I play the piano, the clarinet, the ukulele, the guitar, the banjo, the mandolin, the trumpet. And the Native American flute.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Love that. You still get to play like are you you play you're a you're a musician today, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:44

I mean, I I just do it for fun.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

I mean I just I just love it. Uh it's just a great it's a great coping mechanism for you know if you're having a crappy day and just sitting down and just shredding Green Day. I don't know if you're a Green Day fan at all, but uh 90s kid. But so yeah, so I I do want to talk about your podcast though, because uh is it it do you have guests on, or is it just kind of you two riffing or just kind of how how does it work?

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Yeah, that's a good question. We we've tried so many things, Dan. I I think I think what's true is that that we are both of the age where we are young enough that we know how to make a podcast and know what what you know what that looks like, but we're just old enough where we like don't have any idea why or what we're supposed to be doing with it. So it has gone through some iterations where you know I I think initially we thought, hey, our podcast is like the the the entry way to get a million coaching clients, right? I mean, I I think if I'm being honest with you, that was kind of the initial like we're gonna launch this podcast and a million people are gonna listen to this thing. Uh no, a million people did not listen to this thing. Um, as you know, that's hard.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

It is.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

I promise you. Yeah, it's very hard. So so we started by doing the whole guest thing, you know. We because of our the circles that we swim in with our churches and with our seminary. I mean, we we have some guests that we were like confident, like we're gonna host these guests and they're gonna like bring again a million people. They did not. I actually think people listened to those episodes less. Uh so that then I I think the shift we made was uh to what it is now to be able to say, like this again, Chris and I are really good friends, um, and and we coach each other, right? Chris is my coach, I'm Chris's coach. Uh, we we are not just coaches, but we we get coached. Uh so we uh we really use the podcast as a place, number one, to connect as friends uh and like have a reason to talk to each other that doesn't you know look like business talk. Um, but then also as a way for us to even like let people into what it looks like to be coached, because often we're just actively coaching each other. Uh and and I I think that that's real. I think we want it to be like a you know a glimpse into what you know what a coaching relationship can look like uh for people.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Yeah, podcasting is definitely harder than it seems 100%. I is it so hard, man. I don't know. I started in oh probably November, and it always evolves, like you said. You try to you think you get this awesome guest and they're gonna like post it on Facebook or Instagram and it's just gonna go viral, and then you look and it's like, okay, I've got 200 views. Um but no, mine's evolved quite a bit. Uh like it kind of started just with people from the Midwest. I s I did a segment for a while. It was actually called Hebrew Word of the Day, which I'd love you to check out.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Um it it's just a simple, like three, four-minute you just kind of define the word, uh pray about it, kind of just just think about, you know, the Hebrew, because that's you know, Jesus's you know, native tongue. So I did that for a while. Uh I'm still having a bunch of guests on, and then I just started a segment called Uh Fridays with Dan. It's just a kind of a 12-minute monologue of just my week, you know, things that touched me, you know, if I watched a cool documentary and just kind of weave everything into a cohesive story and then just end it with a a Bible verse and a prayer. So uh you just always kind of gotta be experimenting, and that's the easy part is the recording.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

The hard part is then you have to go in and edit all this stuff out, and uh what what's uh what's what's like the one thing you've learned? Like if if I know you said earlier, like maybe we've been doing this longer, but I think we're the newbies here, Dan. What what's like the one pro tip that you would give me uh thinking about a podcast?

SPEAKER_02 40:23

I mean, for for me, what I've learned is it's really just given me a lot of confidence to reach out to people. Um I mean, I had literally for my first podcast, Gilbert Brown, who is a Super Bowl winner for the Green Bay Packers, and just to have the confidence to reach out and to not get discouraged when you know people ghost you or say no, and just to just drill emails, whoever you want. Just keep drilling emails and whoever you want on, even if you get one of ten, that's still one. Yeah, so I think that's if that makes sense, that's kind of what I've learned.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

But so we're gonna have a little bit of fun. We've already had a lot of fun, but um it might get a little sappy, but so I always try to do a Mount Rushmore segment. Okay, so this is going to be the Mount Rushmore of leadership. Um I don't want you to I don't want you to say Abe Lincoln or Martin Luther King. I I want it to be a little more personal because those are what mine are. So uh who would be your first face on your Mount Rushmore of leadership?

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Yeah, that one's easy. Uh it's a guy named Brian Keepers. He uh he's a great friend of mine. Still, he was my supervisor, he's my lead pastor when I pastored this second campus church. Um, yeah, Brian Keepers is the best leader I know. Um, and literally taught me like I am not sitting in this chair today without without Brian Keepers.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

I didn't stump to you at all. That was easy.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

No, I got it.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

So uh most of mine are family members. So the first one is my late uncle Jim. He was a farmer up in Wisconsin, and he just taught me you know the the love of animals, work ethic, hard work, just salt of the earth kind of guy. Uh maybe had a couple too many wild turkeys at the end of the night, but uh he he was just a super important person in my life, and uh I I I think being a farmer is being a leader for sure. So uh so that's my number one.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Yeah, love that. All right, number two. Number two, um, a woman named Trisha Taylor. Trisha Taylor is she's also a coach. She was never my personal coach, but um, but I I learned a lot from her uh through a um uh I'm struggling for a series of conferences that we would do as as a church. Um I got to know her a little bit through those, and she taught me about um something called creative tension, where like for for things to change in my life or in a system, there has to be some tension. Too little tension, nothing changes. Too much tension, the system breaks. Um, she she taught me how to how to think about that in a way I'd never understood before. Uh just super grateful for for her teaching uh for that.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

That's awesome. And this is so embarrassing because I cannot remember her name, but she was so important to me in high school. She was my uh like geometry and trigonometry teacher. And she just made it so. Fun. Like, I mean, who thinks geometry and trigonometry is fun at all? She was just just so kind and patient and non-judgmental. And unfortunately, she got into an accident and had to get her leg amputated. But I think she's doing okay now. And like I said, I'm so embarrassed, I cannot remember her name. But she's I could picture her face. So she's on she's on my route Mount Mushmore for number two.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Um, so number three, I would go to a guy named Jim Harrington. Uh Jim Harrington is he was my first coach. So the church I worked for here in Northwest Iowa invested, I honestly invested a lot into my coaching as a as a young young like young and experienced pastor. Uh Jim Harrington was was my coach who helped me kind of like process and think about career transition and coaching. Um, yeah, I just I love the guy to pieces, he's a good friend now. Um, yeah, Jim Harrington. He's worth a worth a Google. He's got a couple of great books out, worth a Google.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

You'll definitely have to check that out. So my number three is going to be a boss that I had. Um, her name is Barb Woods. She just was so empowering and trusting, and I'm the type of person that hates being micromanaged. Like I hate being micromanaged, but she also was always there if I had questions, if I needed you know advice, and just she really helped me grow as an accountant because that's my actual career.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Oh, okay. Bless you, Dan.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

So um, yeah. Uh but no, she was just so great. And again, why do all these people that I'm picking have something bad happen to them? She was diagnosed with breast cancer, but she did survive, and she's doing great now. But she just she was just one of those bosses that you could talk to about anything. Uh didn't have to be about work. We'd listen to Pink Floyd at 6 p.m. in the office. Just a wonderful lady that really helped me, helped me grow in my career.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Yeah, love that. Uh Mount Rushmore, four.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Four.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

I should know this. Uh oh, four. I this is gonna sound really silly. I I had a great little league baseball coach. His name is Bruce. Um I I look, I love love baseball. Uh terrible. I I was terrible at baseball, so I I only played to like middle school. But I remember uh Bruce, Bruce's kid was my age, so I was always on Bruce's team. Uh and I I just I remember being like seen as a kid. Like I remember this being being like the first time someone outside of my family like saw me and and appreciated me, you know. Uh I wasn't the best kid on the team, but I felt like the best kid on the team. Um so so I think yeah, I think Bruce just stands out in my mind as like just teaching me how to see people, you know.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Yeah, that's really cool. Well, I'll I'm gonna brag a little bit. I did throw a no-hitter once in high school.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

What? I mean, that's history, Dan. How many people could say that?

SPEAKER_02 47:32

I oh, it would have been a perfect game, but grounder went through the third baseman's legs.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Oh I hope he apologized.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

It was all good. Um, so again, this one it's not silly, it's kind of a cop-out, but it's just my mom.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

That's not a cop out.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

Uh she just is always there for me. She showed up to every band concert, every baseball game, every basketball game, every whatever it was. She was just always there for me. And yeah, I just love her very much, and she's just the type of mom that instilled good values in me. She's so uh deeply rooted in faith. And yeah, it's just my mom. She's gotta be up there.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

That's really sweet.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

But so yeah, I'm gonna give you the floor now to talk about where everyone can uh check out your content, whether it's your your book or your podcast or um your coaching company. So yeah, I'm just gonna give you the floor.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

Oh man, I'm really bad at this part, Dan. So I'll give it a shot.

SPEAKER_02 48:47

Well, I'll post I'll post all the links in the in the episode description.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Good. I'm from the Midwest. We don't talk about ourselves real well, Dan. Uh yeah, so people can can find us at brimstonecoaching group.com. And and I do want to say real quick, brimstone, we we don't call ourselves brimstone because of like fire and brimstone, you know, like biblical like pound on people, brimstone. Uh brimstone is a uh species of butterfly. Um, and you know, butterflies are transformed creatures. So we wanted to capture our our desire for transformation that way. So brimstone coaching group.com. Um, we we you know we we are a very specific sort of coaching um that that is really right for some people, and for some people it might not be quite as right. Uh so we offer free inquiry calls. People can get on the phone with me or my business partner, um, my coaching partner, and you know, have a conversation to see if if we're right. Uh, if people have questions, they can they can do that for absolutely nothing. No obligation, no nothing like that. Uh yeah, the link for the book is on on our website as well. Link for our podcast is there too. Book and podcast are kind of the easy ways for people to kind of again get a glimpse of who we are and and why we do what we do.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

Yeah, well, everyone, please check that out. Um, Kurt, I really can't thank you enough for being here today. It's been it's been fun, it's been powerful, it's been meaningful. So I just thank you for showing up with your honesty and just a willingness to go beyond the surface. And I know my listeners will resonate with that a lot. So um we're gonna sign off. And this has been Stream of Consciousness with Dan. And in the words of Simon Sinek, I think I'm pronouncing that right leadership isn't about being in charge, it's about taking care of the people in your charge. So we'll see you next time on Stream of Consciousness with Dan.