Holes: Got My Shovel, Shoes Full of Sand!

This week, we're diggin' into the film that radicalized an entire generation; Holes! We talk breaking generational curses, Sploosh!, and the many many layers that contribute to such a compelling story. Grab your shovels!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Got my shovel, shoes full of sand. Check out the tag that name's caveman. Uh-huh. Take a bad boy, make him take Fappy. I told you, I did a tap dance to that song. It's in my bones. It's in my bones.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

With that being said, welcome back to this Lenny Rewatch podcast. I'm your co-host, Kids, and this is Allie. Hello! Hello. Wowie.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Well, we're talking about holes. We're talking about holes today. We're talking about digging them, sitting in them, standing in them, looking at them.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

And finding buried treasure in them.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Finding a fossil, finding the knob of your stove, finding Kissing Kate Barlow's lipstick.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

And then finally the bit a big treasure trove with your name on it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Yeah. Spoiler alert, they find the treasure. Although I am in a silly goofy mood, did you want to do a little acknowledgement at the top of this episode?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Let's acknowledge what is right in front of our face, ladies and gentlemen. So while this movie came out in 2003, there are some themes within this film that are still happening today. Especially in the year of our Lord 2026 with just blatant racism. Systemic incarceration. The list goes on, but yeah, that those two are probably our biggest, not trigger warnings, but like they're the biggest, hey, we're gonna talk about this, and it is happening today.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

I was just gonna say, we want to acknowledge that we're doing a fun, silly goofy podcast, but also this movie specifically happens to have themes that are very strong. Um, even though it was, you know, a four kids movie, um, they're strong themes, and we just want to acknowledge that. Uh, we're in a very privileged position to be able to have a silly goofy podcast and not be incarcerated, not like not be in a position um like some of the people in this movie and some people in real life right now.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

That being said, we stand where we stand. We don't want anyone to be taken away from their homes, we don't want anyone to be taken away from their families or discriminated against because of how they were born, you know. For us, this is a positive escape in our day-to-day, and we hope that this is a positive escape for you all because yes, the world is on fire, but we can harness our power and our fire and our love and put it out there.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

We're gonna we're gonna harness the love because I love this movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

I love this movie down. I think kind of like we touched with Twilight. If you can't break it down, then you really can't talk about it. But at the end of the day, I love this movie.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

I feel like it's just such a quintessential TV strapped to the roly cart, substitute teacher coming into the class, rolling in the TV, like nostalgic movie. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yeah. What's funny is like you say that, and I can't pinpoint ever watching it in class. I can tell you when I first saw this movie, it's just so ingrained in my headspace that I I probably think about it more than some other pressing matters in my life.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Yeah, yeah. No, I I feel like it is a cultural touch point for so many people. Number one, we gotta acknowledge that it was a book first, and boing. I didn't read it in class, but I know so many kids in my class who did read it, and when they did their like little diorama in front of the class or their book report or whatever, like I was able to follow along because I had seen the movie, you know. T. So I just feel like it is such a cultural touch point.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

I mean, I didn't read it until later in life because I was like, oh, it's a book. I hadn't even known it was a book until a handful of years ago. And I want to think obviously the movie came out in 2003, so it makes me wonder like how fast the book turned into the movie.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

I think it might have been I don't know, like 1999 or 98 or something. 98, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Cause then this is the oh my god. This is the 20th anniversary edition. What is that 20 years after 98?

SPEAKER_03 4:52

I was gonna say 2018. Yeah. It was like, don't don't make me do math this early in the day.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Isn't that nuts?

SPEAKER_03 5:00

We have hit that point in our lives where we can talk about something and be like, oh, that was 20 years ago. That's crazy. When my dad talks about things and he does love to tell like an old story, he'll he'll off often start the statement by being like, Well, 40 years ago, and then proceed to continue to tell the story. And I'm like, Oh, that is so wild that he can just start a sentence that way. And I'm not calling my dad old. I'm not like I'm not dogging on that. I'm just saying, like, he's lived so much life that he has those points of reference.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Yeah, I thought it was crazy to be able to say that at like 20 years old and be like, yeah, 10 years ago. Yeah, like uh, girl, no. I can reference 20 years ago now. We're growing, we're growing, we're growing, we're living, and I love it. But shall we dive into like should we dig in? Let's dig in. Let's dig in.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

You will dig one hole every day, five feet by five feet. Your shovel is your measuring stick. Okay, before I dive into my obsession with Mr. Sir, um I just have to say, yeah. Staying on the topic of the book is it is widely considered one of the best book-to-movie adaptations, like, period, but especially of our childhood.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

And that's because the author wrote the screenplay. So, whenever I read this book, obviously, I'd already read Twilight. This will come back around, I promise. I'd already read Twilight, I'd already seen the movie, and as we know now, there's some crossover, but you know, it's not play by play. Right. It's not straight from the book. When I read this book, I'd already seen the movie.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

When I tell you, reading the book is just like watching the movie. You don't miss a beat, you don't miss a line. Every reference that's in the book made it into the movie, and it matters so much. It matters so much.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

I feel like um what you're speaking to, especially with the dialogue, is key. I feel like the dialogue has so much heart, and you can tell that it was it was carefully preserved in the process of making the movie. Not only, how do you say this author's last name? Lewis Saker Sahar Seycher. Lewis Sacher. Yes. Lewis Sacher. Um, not only did he write the screenplay, he also was on set for the whole 10-week shoot, and he also cameoed. He's in the movie. He's the guy with the male pattern boldness. He's buying onions.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Onion juice from Sam.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

The other things that I feel like were preserved in the movie was like all the layers of the different storylines. Because there honestly are so many from like, is it Latvia where um the great-great grandfather starts and then the great-great-grandfather goes to America? And not only are we seeing Stanley at camp, but we're seeing Stanley on trial for stealing the shoes. Like, there it's just a really like complex storyline structure for a kid's movie, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

It really is, because not only do you have Stanley, Yilnat's the first in Latvia.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Yes, or wasn't his name Ilya, and then all the other sons are named Stanley.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yes, so Ilya is the one who talks to Madame Zarone, Queen, and it's like, okay, so there's this connection up here, and then all the generations trickle down, and you end up with Stanley Ilnatz IV and Hector Zaroni. And it's like, okay, interesting. But then you dig a little deeper, the warden, her great grandfather. Grandfather.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Grandfather, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

I think it's just grandfather, because at the end, when she's like, I'm tired of this grandpa. Grandpa, grandpa, she laid it out for us. Um, her grandfather like owned the land, owned the lake. Owned the lake. When there was a lake, and he was the one that had an issue with Kate Barlow. Catherine at the time. Oh, I'm sorry, Miss Catherine. Miss Catherine, the school teacher. So it's like all these interwoven connections. But you know, as generations go down, they all just kind of separate. They all are gone with the wind. Mm-hmm. And then they all end up in the same place again, which is crazy to me.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Yeah. I mean, we'll get into the themes here in just a second, but this movie was not dumbed down for a a kid's audience. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I feel like they yes, the complex storyline, yes, the themes, like like just so much. I could see how in the process of making a movie like this, people would want to take away and be like, well, let's just simplify it. You know, let's just cut that. Let's just, you know. But they kept it all, which I feel like showed us as a young audience, like respect, you know?

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Like they respected the book, they respected us, and they they didn't feed us like a watered-down story. Like, there is a lynching in this movie. Like, there is there is there's a a lot of heavy stuff um that they kept, and I think that it's good on them for keeping it.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

I don't think I realized how many deep-seated and just like honestly graphic things happen in this movie. I mean, we already talked about it at the top, but it's like racism, systemic racism, the incarceration of colored people across the board. But then also like some predatory type shit.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

Yeah, like corruption, like I mean that those boys are illegally digging holes. Like, that's not all those people that are running that camp are criminals. Like, it's it's like the the search for wealth corrupts you is is like another theme, you know?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Yeah. Shall we kind of start from the top, or what's on here about other chaotic adaptions?

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Oh, okay. So I was kind of looking this up like at the time that this came out, what other movies were also books that became movies?

unknown 11:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Obviously, Twilight, we already talked about, but like that did not stay true to the text, you know. So much was cut. Um, same thing happened with the book Aragon, the Golden Compass. Like, they just snip cut, took a lot of stuff out of those movie adaptations. Um, this is you know, seven years after 2003, but the Percy Jackson original movie that came out. Um now there's a really good Percy Jackson series on Disney Plus, but that first movie that came out flopped.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

It flopped. The one with um uh uh Logan Hutcherson Josh Hutcherson.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Oh, okay. I saw that in the movie theaters in seventh grade with my whole seventh grade class. See?

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Like I I feel like in school, whenever a popular book became a movie, it was like, oh, like this is something we can talk about at school. So everybody has like the same again, cultural touch point, but um this one just did well, like it just was it just was better than the rest.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Shout out to Holes. I will say there was another book adaptation, not the biggest fan of Miss Girl. I also never read the books. There's seven of them.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Oh, Harry Potter, yeah, that was a big one, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

That was also a big one at the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

So true. And those movies are widely revered as good movies, but fans of the book are like, well, they change so many things. And I think I think we're kind of speaking to the nature of like fantasy books, like you just cannot keep in all the world building that happens in a fantasy book. But this book that is set, you know, in like there is no fantasy besides Madame Zeroni putting a curse on the Yil Natses for generations to come.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

I realized this the last time I watched it, which was two days ago. So does Kate Barlow. Yes. She said, you'll be digging holes for however long.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

She said, your children, your children's children will be digging holes and they'll never find it.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

You'll dig holes for another hundred years. Which makes me wonder like, was it a hundred years, or was that just the big number at the time?

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Yeah, I think she was she was just talking out of her ass. She was about to die by lizard. Yeah. By lizard. Crazy. Let's talk about some of these heavy themes for a second, and then we'll get into the fun stuff because I feel like what this movie does an amazing job at is balancing the heaviness with comedic relief, with like you know, fun moments and like I don't want to say like jokes or bits, but just like things that gags is not the right word either, but things that really appeal to kids, like having those scenes with the lizards, having you know, the sploosh and like kind of like sillier things. Uh there's just really good balance. Um, but I mean, should we start off with something nice and light, like systemic classism and incarceration and for profit juvenile labor?

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Just the everyday conversation topics of what we previously stated. How and excuse my language, how fucked up is this to bring young men that probably didn't do something totally crazy or just out of line, and they're sent to this I'm calling it a detention center, even though it's in the middle of a desert.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

That's what they call it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yeah, sent to this detention center to perform free labor, all because someone's grandfather has a bone to pick with a black man. At the end of the day, that's what it was. That's exactly what it was. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

It's insane. I didn't know that places like this really existed when I was a kid. If you've watched Paris Hilton's documentaries, do you know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_01 16:17

No.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

Um, so uh mildly off topic. There are like quote unquote um it's where bad, it's where bad baby went. Wait, no, what's her name? Danielle uh catch me outside. Oh, Danielle Bergoli? Yes, catch me outside. What are those camps called that they send like troubled kids to? Anyway, it's it's real places that exist. And um Paris Hilton went to a lot when she was a youth, and she kind of did this expose a few years back, basically outlining all of the abuse that she and all the other kids at these camps endured, um, and just like the horrible conditions, like literally shit like this: like in the hot, beating sun, doing manual labor, carrying heavy bricks, like not having enough food, not having enough water, being malnourished, taking pills that she had no idea what they were. Like, she actually spent, I think, like 72 hours in um solitary confinement as a kid. Oh, which is like a really bad punishment that we we don't give to very many people in the real criminal justice system, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, and even when we do, it's like why? Yeah, what like how does that help solve it?

SPEAKER_03 17:39

It's torture, like it is torture to tour torture, yeah. Oh yeah, so they're they're posing us like residential treatment centers for kids that have behavioral problems or whatever, but they're they're just literally abuse capitalism at its worst, you know? People pay money to send their kids here. Oh yeah, and it's they're paying somebody to abuse their kid anyway. I didn't know that these places existed, and so watching it back as an adult, I'm like, oh my god, there are real people, such as Catch Me Outside Girl, who who have all been to these places and who have actually endured abuse like this.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

So that's just so sad. Yeah. Because again, at the end of the day, I'm sure that there's some probably mental and emotional health concerns that need to be addressed within these kids. But this is just not the way to do them. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

They're exploiting kids from well, maybe say like lower socioeconomic statuses, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Yeah. Like well, let's think about it. Hector was in a homeless shelter. He's a foster child, unfortunately. And he tosses the shoes over the thing and it lands on Stanley's head. Now, I don't want to assume his family's socioeconomic class, but I have reason to believe that he's just a step above where zero is. Yes, yeah, yeah. Because later when they're having a conversation, Stanley's like, oh, I went to that park. Whatever park is in their city, their neighborhood. And then Hector's like, Yeah, I used to sleep in that slide. And I'm like, Oh, that line is so sad. It and he just brushes it off like it's nothing. So it's like we're getting a little bit of crossover of socioeconomic imbalance, but at the end of the day, it's all bad.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

It's all bad.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

Yeah. You're mentioning Stanley's family. So the thing that comes to mind for me is like, I fully believe that most people who commit crimes do it because they have no other option. Like, we'll just say like theft, for example, right? Like, if you could afford to just buy the thing, people would, but people steal because they're in a position that they feel they have no other option. Kind of similarly, when Stanley is literally wrongfully accused of theft, one of the characters, one of the adults in the home, is like, well, we need to talk to our lawyer first. Oh, I think it's the grandpa. He's like, he's like, Stanley, you have the right to remain silent. Don't answer any of their questions until our lawyer gets here. And they're like, Dad, we can't afford a lawyer. Like, we can't, we can't afford that. And so I think that is just another piece of that puzzle that even though they have more privilege and more like, you know, they have more than someone like zero, they don't have enough to get him out of going there. You know?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

No, and it's like they sit there and kind of take the defeat of, are you going to jail or are you going to camp? Mm-hmm. Camp. And he's like, I've never been to camp. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

I was gonna say, do you know how uh it's like a popular thing online to talk about like what radicalized you? And it's it's like people say things that are funny, like happy feet, or like I do feel like like our generation cares a whole lot more about mass incarceration and like we we are interested in prison reform and things like that. And I feel like if you ask our generation, like what radicalized you, holes, holes, holes 100%.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

To that point, I think this movie and the book did a great job at making this content and these topics digestible for our generation. Like you put people that were around the same age as us in this terrible situation and you felt for them. You were like, oh, he didn't even steal the shoes. Why? He being sent away. Hector Zaroni had, like you said, no other choice but and now he's here being punished because he doesn't have anybody. And the same can be said for these other boys who did God knows what. Like we really don't know.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

We yeah, we don't know a whole lot about them. Um, we know that Magnet likes to steal.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Which what teenage person hasn't? Yeah. I don't think I ever stole anything. Yeah, I was gonna say, no, mm-mm, not me. But that speaks to probably our privilege. It's like we didn't have to. We didn't feel the need to.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Exactly. This kind of leads into uh our next conversation. The book also did a really good job of just putting like blatant examples of racism on the page and letting us interpret it. You know what I'm saying? Like they didn't dumb it down, they didn't remove it from the movie when they made it a movie. Like it is kept in there. Right. The generational injustice stands.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah, 100%. I had this thought, and maybe this is just me being a black woman in America. I I can just only imagine if you had some, I would say, accurate dialogue. The amount of slurs that would have been dropped in this movie, girl. I know. I was waiting. I'm like, say it, I dare you. Like, I was just waiting. But obviously it was a kids' movie, so it's not gonna happen. But it was of the time. Yes. When was that not gonna be dropped? Yeah. Because I can only imagine what's his face, calling Sam, a horde or no ma'am.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Even like the flashbacks, because okay, when when we're first introduced to Sam, he's Sam Sam the Onion Man. He is like welcomed into the town. Everybody's like, oh, we love you so much, and he's just a farmer or probably a like a like a sharecropper. Yes, yeah. Yeah, and like that is only one side of the story, you know? It seems like everybody's all accepting of him until he kisses Kate, but that is not true. Because how how old do you remember being when you watch this movie? We would not have been very old in 2003 when it came out.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Right, and I can't imagine that I actually saw it when it came out just because when I was a Disney movie, and I didn't get into Disney until years later. But I would imagine I would say late elementary school, so like maybe second, third, or fourth grade.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

Yeah. I remember specifically like fourth and fifth grade, it played on Disney Channel a lot. People were reading the book at that point in school, but it it just really is like an early exposure to like racism. And I do think that shaped our generation to be more outspoken than the previous generations to see color, you know what I'm saying? 100%. I feel like a lot of older generations were kind of taught, whether explicitly or implicitly, like, I don't see color, we're all the same. And we can see with our own two eyes that Zero was treated differently than Stanley. We can see that they literally like tried to erase him from the system. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

His name is Zero Zero, yeah. Which I find interesting because his name is Hector Zeroni. The last part is or the first part of Zeroni is Zero, but it's like someone had to call him that. Mm-hmm. You know, to get the ball rolling. Interesting. I hadn't thought about that. Zeroni Zero, yeah. It's the perfect nickname if you ask me.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

I was just thinking of other characters, and I'm like, there's really no good transition to talk about like the corruption at camp in regards to the warden.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Oh no, but we can let's let's dig in.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

What I have to say is that Sigornia Weaver killed this role. She ate down.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

She ate down. I would be scared of her.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

She is like, okay, so let's get into it. Yes, we're still talking about some heavy topics here. Like there, this is a white woman literally abusing children of color. Yeah, this camp is built on corruption. She is exploiting kids to dig up her famil her quote unquote family legacy or whatever, which is stolen. That like stolen from Stanley or not Ilya Yilnet's, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Yeah. Kate Kissing Kate Barlow stole it from Ilya. And then she was she was on the run.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

Anyway. And then just kind of dropped it somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

We're we're still we're still acknowledging that this is heavy stuff, but manch, god, she is so good in this role. She's she's so evil.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

So evil. And at first you're like, she's not really doing anything terrible to the kids, fa like face value. But once you get into it, it's like, oh, this was her idea. And she doesn't give her a shit about them. She doesn't care if they run away, die, slip and fall off the edge of a cliff. She's only here to find treasure that's not hers. Mm-hmm. And you would think she would know that, right?

SPEAKER_03 27:51

No. Because she's a white woman, and she was told by her grandpa that the treasure belongs to her. So who is she to, you know, do any kind of research about the town? Okay, speaking of the town.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

I don't think I understood this until yesterday. The camp is that town from Yes. Back in the way back. I I don't know how I did not make that connection until like I saw them all pouring out at the very end when it started to rain. Because I'm like, okay, this is where stuff should have been, and then that's where the lake should have been. And it like made my eyes cross for a second. Because I was like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

Yes. The layers, the layers with the storytellers. So good. Really, really quick. We gotta talk about the people that run the camp. Let's let's get into some of the characters here. Mary. Marion. Okay, that's that's another thing. That's another theme is sexism. Let's be so for real. Mr. Mr. Sir has so many lines being like, This ain't Girl Scout camp, boys.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

I think he's closeted. At the end, when he pops out and he's trying to hide his face, and then the sheriff is like, Marion, some is that you, and then he turns around and puts his hands up on the wall. Homeboys wearing silk jammies. So true. Silk jammies and a denim jacket. That's when I go downstairs to pick up my DoorDash in. Yeah. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Yeah. I love his character. His little walk that he does is so crazy. This scene where he's trying to shoot the rattlesnakes or the lizards, and he's he's doing like a crab walk with his gun. He's just like the character choices that that actor made. Next level. Amazing. Because, like, unfortunately, it falls to someone to be comedic relief in this movie, and he has a lot of moments of it. While somehow maintaining an air of like he is scary, you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

He's scary, but he doesn't actually like he doesn't come off as a threat. Yes. The biggest threat that he holds is a gun. Which that's pretty big. But uh he says he only uses it to shoot the lizards, and he really has no authority over these boys. No, like he threatens a lot of stuff, but he will not act on it. He's not the warden, he's not the warden, he's just it makes me wonder why he's there. Like I want to know why he's there.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Well, because he's a criminal and he can't get hired anywhere else. He's breaking his probation by being there because Sigourney Weaver, the warden, will hire his loser ass. And can we talk about? Sorry, we're gonna go back to Miss Weaver. Her intro shot where they do from toes to head, and you find out that the warden is a woman. That is a good shot. That I love the way they did that.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Yeah. Because you would expect a warden to be a man out there.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

Yes, exactly. Exactly. We, the audience, we are in the dark like Stanley is, and we assume that Mr. Sir is the warden. And then they're like, no, no, it's not him. And then it it is a reveal that she's a woman, and the way that she makes those other two guys look nice. Pansies. Yeah. Her first line, I'm pretty sure, well, she says something, one of them can test it, and then she goes right in with her signature. Excuse me.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Which again, I didn't catch until the last time I re-watched it. But then it all just made sense at the point where the iconic line, I'm tired of this, grandpa. Well, that's too damn bad. And then you hear her go, Well, excuse me. A light bulb moment for me. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, it's just facaccia. Everything's folded into each other, and I'm loving. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

The other person that we haven't talked about is the doctor who's not a doctor. Padansky is his name.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Mom.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Mom. Unfortunately, he does get a really good line in about Mr. Sir. Um, again, comedic relief. So Zero has to sneak back to camp to get a shovel to help Stanley dig at the very end to find the treasure. And that's serious. To go back to camp, a place that is dangerous, he could get caught. Anyway, while he's still in the shovel, you hear the two of those idiots, you know, carrying on about the truck. And um, yeah, mom says to Mr. Sir, he's like, unianderthal with sad burns.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Like two idiot men. Who wrote this?

SPEAKER_04 33:20

So funny.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

It makes you think that like someone had to have had, you know, a couple drinks or a little smunky smoke while they were writing, and it was just gold. Gold. So good.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Should we talk about like the filming of it a little bit more before we get into uh our our main characters?

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:44

Um, we're talking a lot about the the big themes and kind of the overarching stuff, but let's get into the nitty-gritty, okay? This movie was shot in Ridgecrest, California, and it is dead ass in a dried-up lake bed. The temperatures reached up to 120 degrees in this desert, and the filming conditions were honestly really, really tough on the actors on production. There were dust storms that would ruin just so much audio that they had to reshoot. All the casts did a month-long boot camp kind of a thing to just like understand how to be safe in the desert and like get used to those conditions.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

I read that in like a different article, and I'm just thinking, if kids have to do that, isn't worth it? That's where I'll lay that down. It a great movie came of it, but damn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

I think it would be interesting to talk about like the practical versus CGI of it all. Because I I do think the practical elements give the movie its heart, give the movie its grit. Like, we never saw any like this on Disney Channel before. These boys are covered in dirt, they're sweating, they're in the beating sun, and like this is no high school musical, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 35:06

I believed every second of it. You know what I mean? Like, I really and they probably were, but like they looked hot, they looked dirty, they looked tired, miserable, beaten down. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 35:22

And here we are. Other practical versus CGI. So they used real lizards. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

They were they just painted stuff on them, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Yeah, I think they used like um like washable paint and they painted those yellow spots on them. But most of those lizards, except the ones that like actually do biting or like get shot or you know, that when like they're holding that trunk, they are holding real lizards. Which I think again adds to like the grit. Like, I I like that that was a practical effect and not CGI.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Supposedly they those lizards were trained, and I just I just wonder how you train a lizard.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

How to tame your dragon, you know what I'm saying? They were they're bearded dragons, they're Australian bearded dragons. The production also dug 450 real holes. I'd quit. Dude, imagine that's your job. You're like, oh, I just got hired on this Disney movie, like I'm so excited. You know, I'm a young, eager employee who's trying to work my way to the top of the industry. My job is to dig holes in the desert.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

At the time, hey, at the time, like I said, I would have been out of there. But then you have to think about the opening shot. Yeah. The drone topped down all these holes just in the desert. Iconic.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

I think they dug 450 real ones, and then in post they made it look like over 9,000. Okay. So again, it's it's the combo practical plus CGI, you know?

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

AI could never say. I have to imagine though that they probably used like a what's this piece of heavy machinery, the digger excavator? Yeah. Like they they probably didn't use a shovel to dig 450 holes, you know what I'm saying? No. But the fact that they did it at all, and you know, they had that was their that was their set, you know, was lit to roll holes in the ground. I think it added to the the grit. It added to the fantasy.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

I don't know anyone who wants to go digging a hole every day. Right. But it it really played into this real world set that ended up being like the biggest part of the movie, probably.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

We can um kind of use this to transition into talking about Shia LaBeouf, but those boys would get smeared with dirt for hair and makeup. Like they would get it like caked on them. Um Shia LaBeouf was injured on set. A rock hit him in the head. And it I what I was reading said that he was wearing a helmet, so I'm wondering if it was while they were like rehearsing the like climbing up the mountain stuff or what.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

But he had to get stitches.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Oh my god. Yeah. I read in a different like fun facts thing, which I don't know if this is really fun. Cleo Thomas, Hector Zaroni, he had a rash like on his legs, and it had gotten to the worst point when they were filming the scene where he had to fight and like jump on people.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Yeah. And he was saying, like, there was cream that was put on him, but it made it burn worse, and he was in his trailer, and his mom is just like spraying him down with a water bottle. Like, these are not okay conditions for these kids.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

No, it would probably not happen today.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Oh, absolutely not. There's just no way that any of this would have happened, probably.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Again, like you said, they're smeared with dirt. Everything was so believable. Like, incredibly believable.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

I will say I am not a Shilebeuf apologist by any means. I think he has done a lot of wrong things. He is deeply troubled, but his performance in this movie is so good. Impeccable. Like, I remember liking it as a kid, and I was curious how I would like it on the rewatch, but I just believe every word that comes out of his mouth. When him and Zero are under the boat and Zero's dehydrated, and he's like, we have to go back to camp. You will die out here. Like, I feel like so many like kid actors would deliver that line just you know, over the top. I'm gonna die out here and corny. Yes, but he I I genuinely believe that that was Zero his best friend, and that they had to go back to camp. Like, yeah, I yeah, I just think his performance was so genuine and probably was a pretty pivotal moment in his early career, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

I mean, in the credits, like the opening credits, it says introducing Shia LaBeouf, which is usually an indicator that this is someone's first feature. Yes. Because he had come off of Evan Stevens already, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:34

Before Evan Stevens, he had done like a single episode of a show here and there. Even Stevens was his first, he was he was the series regular for the first time. Um, but yeah, this was his first feature film.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Just to be able, again, to deliver all of these lines, so believable, it really put you into that fight or flight as a viewer. Yeah. Cause even re-watching it these last two days, I know what's gonna happen, you know? But they're sitting down in that hole with these lizards, and I'm like, she's gonna find a way to get it from them. Yeah, like she is gonna steal that treasure, and they're just not gonna make it out every time. I don't know what or who that's a testament to, but this is one of those movies where I'm always still nervous that they're not gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Yes, I that's how I used to feel as a little kid. I really disliked that Madame Zaroni flashback where she's looking right at the camera and she said, Your family will be cursed for the next 1,000 years or whatever she says. Like, I just remember We're all eternity. Yes, all eternity. That's right. That's right. I just remember, like, every time they showed that flashback as a kid, I would like get a shiver down my spine. I want your opinion on this. As somebody with film industry experience, how do we feel about the overlapping kind of fade-in, fade out transitions? Uh, the the Madam Zaroni one is an excellent example. They'll show that clip and then it'll get fainter and fainter and fainter as like present day is coming in and there's like a lot of overlapping. What do we think? Is it corny? Is it, you know, a part of the times?

SPEAKER_00 42:28

I think it was for the times. Because if you do that now, it's gotta be so intentional. And there's gotta be some type of literal overlap of what's being shown before to what's being shown after. So say we did like a you wanted to show the town before and then the town today, the the camp, like Camp Green Lake before and after. That would make sense to be like a really long fade into like today to show a match cut. Yes, yes, yes, rather than just going from before after.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

You have this overlap of here's the water tower from before, and here's it now.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

It would have to be intentional like that, but I can't imagine going from a woman on her porch being like forever and eternity, and then this fade-on of God knows what. Yeah, you know, it just wouldn't make sense. So corny now, yeah. But it was of the times for sure.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

It didn't take me out of the of watching the movie, you know? No, yeah. Like I I was not bothered by it. Um, because I was reading different articles kind of in preparation for rewatching it, and somebody was like, I could do that on my iMovie right now. Like, yeah, you can. And I'm like, yeah, but I like it. I don't know. It didn't bother me. Definitely didn't take me out.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

I liked it. Yeah. I like the music too, actually. I think the music it didn't stand out to me as much. I think it just kind of faded into the movie as a whole. Yeah. I was like, yeah, this makes sense for this movie.

SPEAKER_03 44:21

I feel like the music helped blend the storylines. So, like, when you see those shots of Kiss and Kate Barlow, and there's like the old western kind of like sound, and then we transition to the camp, and you like it's like literal, you see tumbleweeds. Like, I feel like it kind of helped provide that through line without being like something that you even like notice. You know what I mean? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Okay. I don't know why I did this. But whenever I was watching, I was hearing, like you said, that old western theme. There is a music genre that encapsulates that sound. And I don't know if it's because they were nominated for 16 Oscars, but it was giving Sinners soundtrack. Oh. And I was like, maybe this is just because it's that very similar world building, like of that time. And I was here for it.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

Isn't Sinners about blues music? I haven't seen the movie, so I don't know. I haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

I know, I need to watch. You have got to watch it. It's so good. There's so many underlying themes of Sinners. Like, I won't even get into it here, but you gotta watch it.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Okay, okay. I know. I know everybody's like though. I need to. What else do we want to talk about? What else stood out to us on our re rewatch?

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Let's talk about Cleo Thomas, the man who plays Hector Zaroni. Period. He's just so small.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

I forgot about that. Like on the rewatch, I was like, he is half as big as Shia LaBeouf, and I remember Shia LaBeouf being small. You know what I mean? Like, I totally forgot how little he that guy was.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

So he was about 14 years old when the movie came out. Yeah. He went on to be in like Roll Bounce and some other cult classics, which would love to talk about that movie if you haven't seen it. Uh-uh. But I remember thinking he was so cute, and I was like, we kind of look alike.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Before we started recording, I said that I'm dressed as Sigorney Weaver today in my sleeveless shirt, my sleeveless-collared shirt. And Candace said, I'm cosplaying as Hector Zaroni.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Period. Every day of my life. And I've continued to say that I was gonna be him for Halloween, like for years and years and years, and I just never have. And then I always say this year's gonna be the year. This year's gonna be the year. I don't know when it'll be the year, but I'm gonna do it at some point. Hey, this year could be the year. This year could be the year. I just have a holes-themed birthday party. Oh wait, that'd be so fun. That's something else I've thought about doing. I'd come as Mr. Circle birthday party. Please. Please.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

On Neanderthal with eyebrows. Or sideburns. Um, yes. Zero, he gets a lot of incredible moments in the movie, but we have to talk about the scene where mom is once again abusing him and calling him stupid and says, Zero, if you're learning to read, D I G spells what? And he goes on and on, he doesn't even know, hits him with the shovel and says, dick. That one line just simply so big and takes off running. And the whole everybody starts cheering. Oh, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

That was such a good scene. But I'm also thinking about how sad it is that Zero doesn't know how to read. Yeah, the system has failed him terribly in that case. I just thought about this. If Zero was the one who tossed the shoes over the bridge, he hasn't been there much longer than Stanley. But they make it seem like Zero's been there for much longer.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Which is really interesting to me.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

Yeah, because he said, didn't he say he got picked up for shoplifting at a payless like the next day? The next day, yeah. Yeah. So that tells us that Stanley's trial must have taken a little time.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

A little.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

Yeah. A couple of weeks, maybe. I think another shining moment is the two of them on the mountain.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

I was just about to say that part. Tell me more. Really gets me. Well, back to the whole crossfading and things of it all. At this point, like the family curse is kind of out of the head. Everything that Madame Zaroni has said is kind of in the past. And then as soon as he Stanley picks up Zero, you hear the and then you will carry Madame Zaroni up the mountain. So I can drink from the whatever, and I can grow big and strong. On a good day, I'm sobbing. Yeah. Because what do you mean generationally, this is still gonna work? And you have this like overflow of just excitement. And I'm like, yes, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. They're gonna be fine. And then they make it up and they rejoice in the muddy, muddy water that is at the top of this mountain. It's so good.

SPEAKER_03 50:26

They eat onions, which apparently were apples covered in rice paper, dyed purple. Um and ah, that line where he's like, it's a hot fudge Sunday, just eat it.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

Like just the way he takes care of Zero is so like sweet and pure because he's like, I'm gonna get you a hot fudge Sunday when we get to the top. He's like, it's like a frosty, it's waiting for us. And he's just like, Come on, we just gotta make it. I know there's something up there, and it's so sweet.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

This is totally besides the point. So some of the rock climbing was the two of them, and some of it was stunt doubles. And when I was watching, I couldn't help but be like, oh, and there's the stunt doubles. Oh T. Like, oh, that looks nothing like Shia LaBeouf. Well, because they're these like big aerial shots, so it's like you really can't see their faces, but also I'm like, that is an adult man scaling a rock. Like, that's not a kid.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Well, my thing was because lava climbs, not like this, it's you know, indoor controlled environment, but I know that there are people out there who do this all the time, and I'm like, there's no way these little boys, real or fiction, are doing this. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. But hey, they did it.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

One thing that I thought about when you were mentioning as soon as he picks up zero, things kind of change. So I feel like the movie does a really good job of giving us enough information to make all of the characters, even ones that we don't see that much, really real and really believable. Like, we don't see that much of Stanley's family, but we know enough about them to like get the vibe. And when it's that jump cut and they they go to the apartment and the dad's like, Smell this shoe, and the mom's like, it doesn't smell. It doesn't smell, it doesn't smell, and they start dancing, and like you can kind of see, like, okay, even though this smell anything, yes, smell anything, anything. Um even though it's it's probably like a two-minute long scene, like you get the gist that this family has been down on their lux, their landlord has been complaining about the smell and is gonna kick them out, and you know, they've they've been in this for a long time, and we we feel that, even though it's just a little small scene.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

I do wonder what the whole like not making shoes smell bad was about, and maybe that's a deeper theme that hasn't, you know, fully gotten into the brain folds, but I just find it really fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

It's like a silly, it's it's a pretty silly setup of like my dad is an inventor and he's been looking for a cure for foot odor. It's like okay, which the very final shot of the movie, the way it all gets tied up in a bow with the actor who had the shoes that Zero stole that fell on Stanley, does an ad for Stanley's dad's cure for foot odor. Full circle. Full circle. And all the boys are swimming in the pool and they're spoosh.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Which let's talk about what ended up. I why am I gonna cry? Let's talk about what ended up like being the cure. Being being the cure. Onions and peaches. No, because why am I gonna cry? It was Miss Catherine's peaches and Sam's onions. Yeah. Interracial love is a beautiful, beautiful thing. It's a cure. The cure by Lady Gaga. God, it is the cure. Which we haven't even talked about them for real. Let's get into them.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

Girl.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

We have Miss Catherine, who's a school teacher in this town, and she just wants to teach the kids how to read. That's all she wants to do.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

And the adults, apparently. She's doing night classes. The duck may swim on the lake, but my daddy owns the lake.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

I could have sucker punched the TV when I oh he gets on my nerves. Also, trout is just such a villain name. Trout. Trout. She's teaching the kids how to read and write, teaching the men how to read. Which is very telling. Very telling. But then again, we have Sam, the friendly guy who's selling onions. And they have their little they just have such good chemistry. Yeah. Together. And give us that iconic line, Allie. I can fix that. Whoo-ee.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

I feel like that guy set the tone for like the expectation that a man needs to show up in a certain way, you know? Yes. Like he he put the bar really freaking high.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Because what do you mean you're gonna fix my roof? You're gonna fix my windows, my door, and paint the outside of my schoolhouse. An angel.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Yeah. I feel like some some people might look at that and be like, oh, like she's using this black man to do her dirty work, kind of a vibe, you know? But it just the way those two actors look at each other. You can tell that it is like they they're using the schoolhouse as an excuse to spend time together because they are obsessed with each other. She's in love with that man.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

Which obviously at that time was not okay. I'm not even gonna say it was forbidden. It was just not okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:20

Well, it was illegal to do. According to the sheriff.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

You can or what was it? You can kiss him, but he can't kiss you. It's illegal for him to kiss you. What the hell? Mm-hmm. He's fixing her stuff, he's giving her onions, giving your whole town onions. Curing what did he say? Male pattern baldness. Male pattern baldness. Yes. Just leave him alone. Yeah. And then, like you mentioned earlier, they see them kissed, which, first of all, is so pure because she's reading and just sobbing. And he sees her reading, and he's like, I can fix that.

SPEAKER_03 56:58

Well, she's sobbing because he says he has to go. He has to go back to the farm. And she doesn't want him to go. She wants him to sad.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

She was reading because the book was sad.

SPEAKER_03 57:08

She's crying because the book was sad. No, she was crying because I thought so. She was crying because Sam Sam was like, Well, I fixed the roof, I fixed this, like it's time for me to go back to the farm. And she didn't want to say goodbye. And so she was sad that he was leaving.

SPEAKER_00 57:23

Well, now I'm sad that he left.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

Apparently, there was supposed to be like some extra dialogue, like, heartbreak, I can fix that. Or, you know, I see that you're heartbroken, I can fix that. Like, but he just comes in with his same line again, which I feel like is so effective.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

So that all happens, they kiss, somebody sees it, and then they burn the schoolhouse down. Disgusting. And then pretty much call for his lynching and shoot him on the lake.

SPEAKER_03 57:57

And Kate warns the sheriff that she's like, you're drunk. And he's like, I always get drunk before a hang-in. And she's like, if you hang him, you better hang me too. Cause I I can't be without him.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

I just want to say that I think this is a forgivable villaging. Hold on, stop. Villagin. This is a forgivable villain origin story.

SPEAKER_03 58:26

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

Because yeah, I would also go around hurting people for killing an innocent black man.

SPEAKER_03 58:37

She is the ultimate scorned woman. Yeah. And she she foreshadowing, she warned everybody. She said, if you kill him, it's gonna be bad news fucking bears for you losers. Yeah. And yeah, just like the way that she was so specific, you know, because Stan Stanley's dad, or what? Stanley Gilness, Shia LaBeouf, is sitting at the dinner table hearing the story, and he's like, wait, kiss and Kate Barlow kissed my great grandfather, and everybody's like, no, she only kissed, she only kissed the men she killed. And she only killed the men that were part of killing Sam. Yeah. You know, anybody who played a role in that, she targeted them.

SPEAKER_00 59:20

I think the only guy that got away was Trout. Mm-hmm. But yeah, she ended up killing herself right in front of him.

SPEAKER_03 59:31

Let's talk about how nasty it is that in that scene she sees the girl that ends up married to Trout, and she's like, You are such a good student, indicating that she was a child when Trout was trying to get with Catherine. Yucko.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

I remember hearing like a 13 years thrown out. She's been Mrs. whatever, whatever, for the last 13 years. Girl, you look like you're about 25.

SPEAKER_03 59:58

Yeah, were you 13 when you got together?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Probably. Again, the predatory type shit that's going on is a big yuck.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:10

Yeah. I don't know that when I was a kid, I perceived it kissing Kate Barlow, killing herself as what it was. No. No. I like I just very innocently was like, oh, she, you know, she's finally gonna be with Sam. Because you see that like vi she has like a vision or like a hallucination of him. She thinks she's talking to him. And then anyway. But as an adult, I'm like, this woman grabbing a poisonous lizard and making it bite her is dark. That is yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:47

On screen.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:48

Yeah, we watched it as kids. On screen.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

Yeah. Probably would not fly today.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:52

Yeah. Or or the moot the movie would have been rated like PG 13, or you know, they would have rated what is it, like 17 plus.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

Or is that only video games? I think it's video games.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:06

Rated M for mature.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:08

Yes. Something else I noticed, if we're talking about like what would have been passed today and whatnot, there's a scene in like what I'm gonna call the rec hall where mom is saying something, and I was watching his mouth, and I don't know what word was said, but you can see the actor say, like, pissing around. Oh. And they overdubbed it. And I was like, oh my god. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:41

So sign of the times. Speaking of iconic scenes in this movie, one that I always think about when I think about this movie that I feel like is a real turning point is when Stanley takes the blame for stealing Mr. Sir's sunflower seeds, even though it was not him, and he goes to the warden's cabin. And first of all, why is Sigourney Weaver not dressed? Like that that adds nothing to the plot other than it just tells us like she wasn't expecting guests. But like, she's like, come on in, I'm letting the cold air out. She didn't she didn't have to be so sexy. And yet she did. Um, did you hear that her daughter was the one who was like, Mom, you have to take this role. I love this book. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

Yeah. She was like, you've got to play the warden.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:34

I think the director, or either the author or the director, was quoted as saying, like, she just gets it. Like she just got the role. She understood it perfectly. But the scene where she asked Stanley to fetch her nail polish, and she paints her nails, and she's like, the rattlesnake venom, you know, it's harmless when it's dry, but when it's wet and so good. So good. Also, that is when Stanley kind of puts two and two together. Oh, the KB from the lipstick was kissing Kate Barla. Like, I also feel like he builds rapport with D D tent. Is that what they're called? D tent? D D group. Oh, yes. The boys. The boys, the boys that he digs with, he builds rapport with them by taking the fall. You know, because at that point they were like he was still an outsider, they were not letting him in. Um, but I think they they started respecting him after he he took the fall for Magnet, I think was the one who stole.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

A couple things.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

Well, like just kind of giving up his I don't know what you would call it, but like, like you said, he took the fall, and then when he found the lipstick tube, he gave it to somebody else. And it was kind of like a yes, almost like a reparation type thing. It's like, I haven't been here as long, so I'll I'll sacrifice some things that I might gain from this. Yeah. Which was big of him.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:09

You can kind of see it when he's like, he doesn't want to give it to him. And then he's like, well, why wouldn't I, you know, do it now? And he's like, Oh, um, save it for tomorrow so you can have the whole day off. Like, he he kind of weighs the pros and cons and is like, okay, if I'm gonna be in this social group, I gotta figure out how to make it work. It's just this movie. I'm like, oh, I love it. I feel like it holds up pretty well, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

It does. I mean, it's exactly what we said at the top of the episode, like history continues to repeat itself, and a lot of the themes that are shown within this movie that are talked about today, they're happening today, and so I think as long as those themes are still playing out in our real life, I'm not saying it's a good thing. As long as those things are still relevant in our real world, movies like this will hold up.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:11

Totally. It was presented to us as fiction, and that somehow made it like a little bit easier for us to digest, but I I only saw like truth when I was watching this movie, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

Oh, yeah, especially as an adult, like there are themes of what I would call fantasy within this, you know, the cursing, the just the full generational overlap and the character overlap that happens. That is just something you don't see in real life. And if you do, wow, write a book, see what happens. While there are those like fantastical situations, this is real life. Yeah. Like to a T. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

There are corrupt people running corrupt places. There, there are, you know, generational we won't call it a curse, but you know, generational stuff passed passed down. Um, and I think holes just like trusted kids with the truth and like knew that we could handle it as an audience, and that's why we love it so much. In addition to the practical gags of, you know, lizards, and they're eating this like nasty hundred-year-old sploosh and sploosh, which was you know how they're covered in dirt?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:42

That was graham cracker. Oh. Those jars that are covered in dirt. Yeah. So that when they put it to their mouth, they weren't actually eating dirt, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:50

And what actually sounds kind of good.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:52

What was in there? Let me tell you. It was, I didn't mention it in the production stuff. It was applesauce, right? It was applesauce and molasses, I think, to give it that like thick. Yes, it was applesauce and molasses, and then the the fake dirt around it was graham cracker.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:10

That just gives me an idea. I think at some point in my life, I don't know when, I do want to absolutely have a holes-themed party.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

And we'll eat sploosh and onions. Spooch. That are really apples wrapped in rice paper.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:23

Or just like peach type food, onion type food, so like onion dip. Yes. Like a caramelized onion dip, please. That would be so good. A sploch martini?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:38

Oh, with a graham cracker rim. Yeah, I think I think we've got to do this. It has to happen. Our rat party.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:47

Oh my gosh! Yes! Whenever, wherever that happens.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:52

Let's answer the question. Does this hold up? Yes, we've been talking about this this whole time. This movie holds up.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:57

I still like I would not be surprised if there are teachers that still show this movie, that still read this book, and fourth, fifth, sixth grade. I mean, kids can't read these days, it's a whole problem, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is still and I'm not like it took me a second to process that only because I finally remembered the genre of music. Oh, what?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:20

Southern Gothic.

unknown 1:08:22

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, kids can't read. Kids unfortunately. As we are. Unfortunately, kids can't read. However, I like I would not be surprised if this is still in modern curriculum because it's it really is a timeless story. And I think it maintains that because of the complex storylines, because we're talking about something that happened way in the past. Like we get all those flashbacks. So I think it holds up.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

It 100% holds up. I'll probably put this on as a comfort movie again soon.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:56

And we're gonna have a whole themed party. I can't wait. And I'm gonna get on my prosthetic beer belly, just like the actor who played Mr. Sir. You know I'm gonna do that silly little crab walk with a toy gun. Yeah, you've got to. What I was gonna say about the other uh thing that holds up about this movie is the quotes, some of the lines. Um, Andrew and I both forgot that, and you've said it so many times, but I'm gonna say it again, that Please. I'm tired of this, grandpa. Well, that's just too dang bad. Like we We both forgot that was from this movie. It's been on Vine, it's been on TikTok. Like it is such, it is such an iconic quote, and I forgot that it came from this.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:43

Yeah, it's probably like alongside with I Can Fix That, probably the most iconic line from this movie. It is, it is because I can't think of any other line or lines that hold up like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:00

Yeah, no. And I I imagine that there probably are younger kids that maybe haven't read holes or maybe haven't seen the movie because it's you know, quote unquote dated, but they know that quote because they're on TikTok. I feel like one the other thing that we haven't mentioned but contributes overall is like Disney was finding its footing in this era of the early 2000s. Like they were coming off all the animated musicals of the 90s, and they're like, okay, who are we gonna be? What's gonna set us apart? And I think they really nailed it with holes. Like they have heart, they the dialogue is so pure. Like we've talked about um some of those interactions between Stanley and Zero, and even like Stanley's family, like him and his grandpa sharing a bedroom.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:46

Are you kidding? So sweet. You don't have to answer that, Stanley. Like, whose bed is this? It's the grandpa's bed.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

Um, but yeah, they're they they find a way to serve us a platter of really difficult themes, but in a way that we can digest, and there's, you know, there's comedy, there's drama, like it just has a really, really good balance. And a happy ending that I did not find corny, that I just found sweet and endearing.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:18

Yeah, because who wouldn't want to grow up in a house next to their best friend and have a pool party with all your kids?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:25

Now exactly. Wait, I just remembered a really sweet moment. Do you remember when they're doing the big arrest scene and blah blah blah? And they ask for a pen and paper, and Marion's being all skittish. But then Armpit says, I want you to call my mom and tell her I said sorry. Tell her Theodore says sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:50

Yeah. Because he's the character throughout the whole thing where when Dr. Padayansky, mom, Panayansky, mom, whatever, sees him, he's always calling him Theodore. And he's like, it's Armpit, man, it's Armpit. Like they're all so about these nicknames.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:09

And it's like, and by the way, I god awful nickname.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:12

I get a nickname. Terrible. God barfbag. I am led to believe from the very beginning that barfbag also offed himself, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:24

They say he's still in the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:26

He was bitten by a rattlesnake.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:28

Yeah, but no, they're the the things that the kids say to him, they're like, Barfbag, it's not that bad, man. It's not it's not that bad, you'll be okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:36

It's it's obvious from the beginning that there is not a real therapist on on scene. No, no, no. On site. Nope. No. The nicknames are terrible, but I think at the end of the day, they all have such like a pure heart. And I don't know, it's just so cute. Yeah. The way that they bond.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:56

I think it speaks to like putting kids in these central roles, is like they are they they bring a zest to the set. Um, like the scene where they got to film in the rain. Okay, they really were filming in the desert. So when they brought in those big rain machines and they're like playing in the rain, like you can see that they're actually having fun. Like those kid actors are actually like, oh my god, finally, like, we're not, it's not 120 degrees here, you know? And all of that I feel like reads on on camera. Should we end with another rendition of our our favorite quotes from the from the film? Just to why not just to send us off?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

I honestly don't know if I have any other lines that I can think of off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:41

I've got I've got sound effects here. This is ASMR. I'm Ally taking the role of Zero in the scene where he spells out dig. Dig! And that was the shovel.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:00

Good job, good job. I'll end on this. I feel like Stanley's breakthrough point with the group was when they're in group therapy, and Dr. Panansky or whatever, mom, you know, he's like, you've put yourself in this position, so who do you have to blame? And he goes, my no good pig stealing great great grandfather, and everybody laughs.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:32

My no good. It's the way that it's the way that his grandpa says it. It's the way that that old man goes, Well, that's because of your no good, dirty, rotten stink peelin'. Take five.

unknown 1:14:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:51

No good, dirty rotten pig stealing great great grandfather. Also, he did not, he didn't steal the pig. Madame Zeroni gave it to him. She said, take the little one.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:05

Right. Which goes to show you that the story did not hold up in the family like line.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:18

They got they got it twisted, unfortunately. They thought they were cursed because he stole the pig. No. He was cursed because he didn't come back for Madame Zeroni.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:28

And I think that grandpa knew that. He was like, he forgot to come, he forgot to carry Madam Zeroni up the mountain. And I don't think he forgot. I think he was heartbroken that that lady was like, I'm thinking of a number between one and ten. I feel choosed and the uh like if you don't love me, you don't love me. Just say it. Right. He was he was a scorned man.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:49

Ugh, and then actually the end, whenever um Zero's mom gets off the bus. Oh god. And his grandpa is just there and he's crying. I'm like, Yeah. And then even when they're getting like the what what were those sheets of paper? Like bonds?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:07

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:08

It was like that was the first time that they realized what Hector's last name was. Yeah. And he goes, Did you say Hector Zaroni? Uh-huh. He goes, Yeah. And he's like, and it's like, so he knew. He knew that I think in that moment he knew it was real. Yeah. The curse.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:27

The curse was real, and also the curse was lifted.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:32

All because of some peaches.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:34

And then let's hold on. Final, final aside. The actress who plays Madame Zaroni, whose name is Earth of Kit. Earth Kit was cast as Yizma after this movie. In in The Emperor's New Groove. That casting took place after this, and I have to believe that this role set her up for that. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

100%. If y'all don't know about Earth the Kit, get into it.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:00

Yeah, she's I feel like an icon. She's the older generation's catwoman, but she's our generation's like kooky old lady. That is like a beloved character in many movies.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:11

Love Earth the Kit. Love Sam. Love Kissy K Barlow. Hate to say it. Love the Warden.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:18

Sigourney Ever wheat. Sigourney Ever wheats down. That's what I was gonna say! She serves she serves cunt in this movie, like derogatory and non-derogatory, you know what I'm saying? Yes. Like she is a cunt and she's serving cunt.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:39

And two things can be true at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:42

Two things can be true.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:43

Or her.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:44

Well, I can't wait to attend your whole themed party. I'm gonna start growing out my sideburns now. I'm just gonna get the curl right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:53

Period. I think that's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:55

I think that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:59

You heard it here first, second, or third.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:02

It's it's gonna be a good one, folks. Bye. Bye.