How Highland Cows Became Real Therapy | With Lou Ann & Mike Kramer, Remark-Able Ranch

Some farms breed cattle, this one breeds connection. This week Lori sits down with Lou Ann and Mike Kramer of Remark-Able Ranch in Greenfield, Indiana, a 501c3 nonprofit using Highland cattle to bring joy, healing, and confidence to people of all abilities. What started with a trip to Scotland and a love for "the pretty ones" became a mission built around the Kramers' daughter Brianna, whose bond with their first bottle-fed steer changed everything.

This episode covers agritourism insurance realities, why petting zoos require more than one of each species, and the kind of moments that happen when a so-called "murder cow" finally finds the right person.

Key Takeaways

Agritourism insurance is highly specific by state and activity — read every line before assuming you're covered. 

Highland cattle bond with individual humans, not just with people in general. Steers make exceptional companions and babysitters for calves and herd mates. 

A 501c3 nonprofit status takes real groundwork, including signage, accessibility, and insurance compliance. 

Highland cattle have a uniquely calming, therapeutic effect that translates well to special needs and mental health programs.

Episode Highlights

Lou Ann shares how a trip to Scotland and a backwards spelling of their last name led to Remark-Able Ranch. 

The story of Augie, the bottle-fed steer who became the herd's unofficial babysitter and Brianna's best friend. 

A wild, "feral" bull named Emilio Estevez who only ever bonded with one woman, completely unprompted. 

The realities of insurance, accessibility, and what actually goes wrong when you open a farm to the public for the first time.

Timestamps

00:01 — Welcome & introduction to Remark-Able Ranch
 01:46 — How Lou Ann, Mike and Brianna got started
 04:33 — Brianna's story and why this mission matters
 06:40 — A trip to Scotland and "can we get the pretty ones?"
 14:08 — Cowgirl Confidence and the Highland community
 21:45 — Becoming a 501c3 nonprofit
 26:15 — Agritourism insurance: what people don't expect
 29:25 — Petting zoos, transferability and including everyone
 40:55 — Augie the steer and the bond between bulls and babysitters
 41:17 — Emilio Estevez: the feral bull who picked his person
 47:57 — Calving schedules and managing fly strike

Learn more or book a visit at remarkableranch.net

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Production Credit: Edited and produced by @the32collective_ / https://www.the32collective.co/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Horns and Hooves. Taylor is, I didn't is busy. Uh she's doing her own AIing and doing it herself. So she is actually out putting cedars in by herself today. So she's not gonna make it on, but I am here with some incredible guests from Remarkable Ranch. They are a 501 C3 nonprofit. They have a great story, and so we're gonna we're gonna talk to them a little bit about it. I don't know all of it. I have read their social media and I'm excited to to talk to them today. So can you guys share your names and where you're from and how you got started?

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Certainly. So I'm Luann Kramer. Uh this is my husband, Mike. Mike, hi and my daughter, Brianna. Hi. Say hello. Hello. So um we are the Kramers. And um, silly as this sounds, when my kids were little, they really enjoyed doing funny things like spelling words backwards and trying to pronounce things backwards. And so Kramer backwards is the word remark. And so I like it. Always thought it would be funny to have one of our businesses have the word remark in it, and so that's where we got remarkable. Able is just the um stressing abilities instead of disabilities. So our nonprofit is using um our favorite animal, at least she and I, we have a favorite cow, which is the Highland cow and the docile cattle that Highlands are to work with folks with different challenges. And so we have programs, we provide free programs for folks, I mean, all over, not just we're so we're from Indiana. We're from a little town Greenfield that's east of Indianapolis, Indiana. Um, and we provide services and programs for folks with different levels of disabilities and challenges. We also then expanded into um mental health programs, and we um got special insurance and things to be able to take our smaller calves to long-term living facilities. So we do things with folks with all different kinds of challenges, and I would kind of like to introduce why we do that. That would be awesome. You know, I don't want to just take over and you know. You take over. I I'm good with that. But let me go ahead and explain why we're doing this. It's just a mission that is dear to my heart and my husband's, and um, it really has to do with uh this dear person here next to me. So we have two kids. Uh, my son Brent, who gosh, from from the moment he was born, he did lots of great things. You know, he got great uh grades and everything. But when things came hard to him, he would give up, he'd get mad and give up. And and this young lady here, she has lots of challenges. Um, she's how old are you? 28? 28, yeah. So she's 28. And she still is learning to improve reading and writing. To this day, she doesn't quit. She never quits. She always has a smile, she's always she makes friends like you wouldn't believe. I have stories to tell you about some people that you have in common that are friends. Wow, you two actually have a common friend, I think. Okay. But in any case, we'll get we'll get to the bottom of that. Yes. But she makes friends like you wouldn't believe all over the place. Oklahoma, Missouri, especially through the highlands, but um through the highland cattle. She makes a lot of friends that way. But so she's this beautiful being, she never quits. And so she's still struggling with all those kinds of things. She went through high school, all through school. She played volleyball, basketball, whatever tennis. Oh, tennis. She she lettered in doubles tennis. Softball. Yeah, she played softball. She never gave up on anything. She learned all of these things without reading or writing. As long as somebody could keep the score. I mean, she did great. She enjoyed life, she had lots of friends. What am I? I'm making as long as past cuts. She still enjoys life. But what happened is when she got out of high school, there just wasn't as much to do. And so she would go to some programs for young adults to enjoy things. And they did a lot of crafting and things, but it was all inside. And so we decided that when things calmed down for us, especially when we got to the point of retirement, that we would start having some of her friends and some of these groups that she does a lot of crafting and inside things, we'd have them out to our farm and we'd do some things that were outside. And she and I took a trip to Scotland at about the same time that he retired. And he's been a cattleman for, I don't know, forever. I mean, how many years were you?

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Grew up with it. I mean, he grew up uh raised in Hereford with with at my mom and dad's place.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

I mean, dairy cattle um worked at uh we both worked a pharmaceutical company, but he worked on the animal side. He's probably had to help deliver dairy cattle, hundreds and hundreds of them, you know, does all kinds of all the medicine, everything, all that stuff that I don't know anything about. I ignored, we've been married 36 years. I ignored he and his family's cows for 30 years.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Hey, that sounds really familiar. Isn't that awful? Really? My husband was born and raised on a dairy farm.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Okay. So we went to Scotland on a trip with friends and went into the Highlands and saw these beautiful animals, like almost fairy tale, you know, in the mist in the Highland Mountains. We come home, I'm working from home, overlooking this beautiful front pasture. And he says, Hey. So we looked at each other, she and I, and said, Hey, can we get the pretty ones? And it kind of all went from there. We thought, you know, we're just gonna get maybe six. You're familiar with farm math?

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Yeah, my husband told me I could start with four. How many do you have now? 214. They're not all Highlands, remember, but I do a lot of crossing, like I'll cross shorthorns and I'll cross British whites and stuff. So they're not all, but they're I uh it's my girl math. He said four, he didn't tell me where the four had to land. 214 close, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Close. See, I thought I was dead. He oh, he's gonna be shaking his head about why did we do this podcast? Because I thought going from six to what are we, 46 now? Um, I thought that was bad. My gosh, those babies are cute.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

They are. We had to buy new land last year. We had to buy more land.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

We just started leasing more. Did you? Yes, yeah, it's it's a it's a new math that we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Yeah, I I had to lease my grandpa's this this year too. We're leasing the in-laws.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

My parents property connects to our properties, so it makes it easy.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Yeah, yeah. We're doing we're renting my grandpa's, and he's 90, he'll be 97 in November, and he's still a barber in our small town, and he still takes care of the farm, and he goes, my aunts and my uncle, they were ready for grandpa to give up going out there and fixing fence and spraying and cutting muscles and all of that. So my husband still takes him out there with him. Grandpa still does it all in gardens and all that, but we gotta rent we got to rent his 320 acres. So, but ours is not as fortunate as yours, ours is a drive, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

So that's nice. All wooded pasture or what?

SPEAKER_02 8:09

No, it's pretty open.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

My dad will be 94 in November. Well, November 11th, I think.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Wow, 92 and 94, his parents, and they are out every day checking our herds. The first to know when when somebody's calving, they'll get us on the phone or they'll knock on our door. They are out every day. They've got a side-by-side, they've got golf carts, they are the cutest little couple, they're the best.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Oh, love it. Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

They're gonna live forever, these guys.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

You're gonna you don't even have to put like those moo collars that we just talked about because you've got your own personal moo collar.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

They're awesome, they're the cutest little things, and I just love them. Anyway, so we started this program because we just felt there was a need in our immediate community, and it just grew. And we also feel like we are so blessed. So I had 40 years of working in IT, and I got to pick the last um six or eight years. I got to pick my jobs, I got to travel where I wanted to, and you know, he is so he was a pipe filler, welder, machine. I mean, fast my husband does.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Nice, really.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

This is yeah, this is crazy. Yeah, he owns his own welding company.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

He still does it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

He goes into, well, he was going into Tyson's in Lexington, but they closed, um, redoing all their machinery. Now he goes into a couple of the other places around here.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

I bet ever since COVID, his uh salary has increased, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 9:37

I would hope. Well, that's he has his own company, and so the uh the most unfortunate thing is is those companies don't like to pay.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

I don't know. There's there's uh people um coming out of welding school that just stick well making 40 some dollars an hour now because our country's short 500 500,000 welders or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Yeah, but then we have people in our area in Nebraska, they don't want to pay for good welders. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

So I have to ask you total I I don't know what I was talking about before, but do you know Taylor Blake from Knuckle Bump Farms?

SPEAKER_02 10:19

I know her.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Do you know her? Okay, I do. I know who she is. I thought maybe you were a friend of hers, but I didn't know. But she um, so we went to we go once a year to um a CC workshop. It's called um confident. Yeah, at um Clayton Corner Farms in I think Pong Oklahoma. I don't know, it's in Oklahoma. We go as vendors now, um, but also we go, we just sign up and go and learn again because they're always adding things. It's a wonderful conference and we learn, we meet so many people, and it's such a it's just a great environment to go to. It's we have such a great time. It was one of the things that we went to very early on when we got Highlands, and I just thought it would be such a cool thing for her to experience. Well, oh my goodness, the first day that we went, we had so much fun, but we worked so hard. We went back to the Airbnb, and of course, I'm old and I went to sleep. And she stayed up half the night talking to these young women ranchers at the kitchen table. And and I I tease her because I'm not sure they talked about cattle. Yes, cattle. I think they talked about anything and everything, yeah. Men and other things. I don't know. No mom. But anyway, um, she got to meet some of the best people. I mean, there's so many good people involved with uh cattle and highlands and showing Annie Howe, Howell Cattle Company. Oh, yeah, yeah. I love Annie.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Oh Annie's a sweetie, yep.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Um, we're able to show cattle in Indiana. It was just um three years ago. They they had not allowed um Highlands to be shown at the state level. There was a lot of controversy about the horns and such. And oh my goodness, when they decided they would allow them, people showed up in Droves. It was so nice. It was just a wonderful environment. Three different farms, especially the Grimes. I would have to mention Crystal and oh my goodness, I've forgotten his name. Jason Grimes, Crystal and Jason Grimes.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Yeah, I was gonna say if my husband is here, he can whip those names out.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

They actually influenced the whole state and the state fair board to to allow Highlands. We, Brianne and I had just met Annie Howell, and I'll be darned if she did it, get in her truck and drive all the way here to fit our cattle so that we could show them and we had the best time ever. She's but the reason the reason I mentioned Taylor Blake, so she was one of the the girls that we met at this Airbnb. We stayed there, we also met Taylor Blake. Taylor, oh my goodness, what a personality, right? So she's got followers, and she's such a hoot, couldn't have had a better time staying there with her, but yeah, she also, if you don't know, she you know, she runs this rescue rehab, knucklebone farp, and she is she's got the biggest heart, she's amazing. Um, she I think she actually lives with these animals as if they are her family, they all have people names, right? Yes, so do I. They're up and the two of them going to Starbucks and everything, having a great old time. She, I don't remember who took who to the airport. We took her, she took us. Anyway, they trade numbers. I'm sitting on his parents' back porch, you know, watching our cattle and things. She flips her computer open and is having a live uh FaceTime or something with Taylor. Uh-huh. Taylor's in her laundry room, and she says to Brianna, what is it you wanted from my farm? And I'm a parent looking at her like, you asked for what from somebody. And Brianna's like, a cow. I'm like, Oh my gosh. And sure enough, Taylor sends her a cow. Oh, wow. Mini Highland crossed with a Beltic Galloway. Oh awesome. Real cooking, be a real cookie-looking, beautiful cow. And Taylor has, I don't know if it's well, you know, it's part gen, it's always part genetic and part how you raise it. But this this little and it's not a cow, sorry. The cattleman's gonna correct me. It's a steer.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Oh, it's a steer. Okay, it's not even a female, okay. It's not a cow, steers make the absolute best pets.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

They're wonderful. Oh, he's wonderful with the children and with our program. Anyway, so she got a cow from this one little we had. But we go back once a year to that um event as a vendor, and she came out at the very first week knowing how to draw blood for preg tests, and and now she's they've got the you know, be able to set an IV and then neck and just amazing stuff we've learned, but also just the confidence and now working with these programs that course a free cow, uh, you know, you can't sneeze at that. Right. Anyway, she is now our hostess and she runs these programs, so she will do things like we'll always have like a snack, so a root beer float, or we'll have a pudding bar or a yogurt bar to have a day, and then she will do like a little watercolor class, or um, what are some other things she've done? Um painting, or um obviously feed and brush the cows.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Yeah, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Oh, that's awesome. Well, and we've got mini donkeys too. So if you don't have donkeys, you you need a mini donkey.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

I do. You do. I have I want a mini woolly donkey. I know I have seven mini donkeys.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Yes, that's how many we have.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

We have two, and I have four mini ponies, but my mini ponies are they can be a bit naughty. I have two that are naughty and two that are really good.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Okay, we haven't started the mini mini ponies yet. Dad's over there going in.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

We're not gonna yeah, Cowgirl Confidant. If anybody has not heard of it, hasn't uh seen it, looked it up, you can find them on Facebook. It is a great program for anybody um starting out and even for people that are new, but they have some cattle background. It's a great, it's a great place to go and hang out, and it's mostly all women that are there.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

They're doing the couples what as well now, anyway. Yeah, so a little plug for Kim. Um, Clayton and Clayton Farms are doing. We also got to know the cupcake kettle company.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Oh yeah, yeah, I love Laura and Sulan.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yes, they're on you, but they are you know, we've got we got our first mini heifer from them, and we're looking forward to we just started breeding her. We're we were looking forward to that. She is, of course, she was dressed as you can imagine. If you know them, she saw their Christmas card before we bought her. So she was dressed a little tutu. She was also part of a little swimming pool party, and um yes, yeah. Sounds like fufu, but uh you know the two of them are very, very bright, they're the best mentors.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

They are, they're really they are good. And Sue Lynn is uh she has her doctor and is has learned so much about the cattle and is very helpful with with that. She's very keen inside of it.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Scientific research, you know, she brings the research into you know what's the best nutrition and what's the best, yeah. She she's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

So you guys got started doing this how long ago?

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Five or six with the Highlands and um probably the agritourism stuff maybe four years ago, and just became 501c approved last July. So we were kind of just doing it because we wanted to give back. We we've been blessed. You know, our son is now an eye doctor, he just married a wonderful young girl that he's been dating for five years. She's a pharmacist. I mean, we are we are blessed. So we we wanted to try to you know give back.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

That's so awesome. So how do people just schedule or how does that how does that work on your end to come see you?

SPEAKER_01 18:34

We have so it's kind of fun. I have a friend, um, Tina Hines. I'll put a little plug out there for her. We've been friends since fifth grade, and when I decided to retire, um, it took me a while. I tried to retire and it didn't stick. I kept going back to work, but I had a little notebook and she and I would write ideas. When I retire, we're going to, and we had all these different things we're gonna do. And most of them had to do with the farm, and so um, and most of them had to do with folks with special needs. Um, because she has some special needs than I have, Brianna, and they had things they liked to do and things they didn't like to do, and um, so we we just filled this book up with things anyway. So we I might what was I say? We started doing things that would make us some money. I hadn't thought about doing a nonprofit and you know, asking for donations. And so we started doing things like um custom tours, having people come in, and and we still do that. Um, we started selling things. We had a greenhouse. I'm terrible at raising plants. My friend Tina's really good. Um I kill things, she raises things. We had kids in from a group called Hancock Possibilities. We let them replant flowers for Mother's Day. We were doing all kinds of ideas, but we mostly do tours. We also do events, we'll do several events. We call them cows, we have cow concerts. The cows are not instruments, but we have um local talents here, and then um we'll charge a minimal ticket amount to come in. Sometimes we'll have vendor tables, sometimes the vendors will give us a certain percent of what they make. What else do we do? We have uh we do a hay rock. Yeah, we Brianna has um shows people how to tie-dye t-shirts, we have um hay rides, we do uh wow painting pumpkins sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Um so you guys are busy all the time in your retired world.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah, I still haven't quite figured out how to just sit back and retire, but we are having fun. That's good. We also taking the cows to some of these long-term residential facilities is just it's we are having a great time, and hopefully we're we are expanding. You know what some of these groups get to do. Um, we actually we found a group at AW Rootbeer that stopped for their field trip, and the lady taking them off the bus said, you know, our field trips are places like we stop to get root beer, or we go to Walmart, or you know, I said, Well, gosh, you can get root beer and pet a cow at my house.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

And so, you know, I think we're opening up things for people, so that is so awesome. This is not an easy process, though. It was not an easy process getting going. I mean, I know because I've been um helping a guy with his monkey sanctuary that's a 503c, um, but he is a sanctuary. He is, you know, the things that you have to go through and all of that to get there, but also you have to have insurance to cover, also, like special insurance for all of this.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

And it's very specific, and it's different by state. And I mean, it's very specific. You have to have certain verbiage on signs and different. Different places. I mean, it even has to have a certain font of a certain level, a certain color. Oh, wow. That's simple stuff. But we were when we first did it, the very first group we had out was a group that Brianna really enjoyed, but they didn't have as many activities as she liked. It was the young adults. And so when we brought them out, the first thing that happened is we we didn't have any handicapped facilities. And so the first thing that happened is the toilet actually got pulled off the wall. Oh piped dinner stuff was fine, but it was a mess. We didn't have the right um parking arrangements, you know, just little things like that. But yes, the insurance, very specific, black and white, about like our hay rides. We have four different pastures, and we also lease different pastures, and some of them are across the street. If the hay ride goes out onto the road, even if it's just across the street, we're no longer covered. So very specific things. Petting zoos, uh, certain folks will not cover that. It's kind of funny. So it's like you can look at my cush but do not pet them. Right? You just have to really read the fine print. And of course, I mean, our big thing is safety. You know, you just really want to be safe. We've had, of course, he he can make anything. I mean, I will I will give him that. He can make anything. We've got videos you can see on our website of some of my happiest moments since I've been retired. And it's when we can find it's like that no man left behind thing, but when we can find a way to include every single person that shows up on our farm. So we'll have a group. Sometimes the groups are only four people. Sometimes we'll show they'll show up with three different arms of the same organization, if you will. Um, so like shares will come out, and there'll be one from a Shelbyville or a different, you know, three different towns will bring all at once. And there might be one person who cannot transfer to whatever we're using, this golf carts or side by sides. And that one person cannot transfer. He will run out to the barn and build something that is safe and sturdy that can work on one of our trailers.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Oh, that's so awesome.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

That business, everybody can move from pastor to pastor. Um it's just uh so it's a challenge for him, but for me, it's it's just very I don't know, it's it's fulfilling to me. I grew up with a sister with cerebal palsy and epilepsy, and we we grew up at one of the children's hospitals, you know. So all of these people are someone's uh sister or daughter, or you know, like yeah, that is so awesome.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

I I it just gives me goosebumps because it just sounds like it sounds so fun. I have people, I don't have as many people as I thought I would calling me up asking if they can come see the cows. I don't know if they're afraid or what, but I'd be more than happy to show them around. Oh, you'd be surprised if they thought that if I opened it up, yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Agritourism. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Agro tourism. So is that on a schedule? How does agritourism work?

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Uh it it each state has specific Indiana, Indiana is great about agritourism. Um, I think it's just because you know, agriculture is so big in Indiana that they um they try to make laws that make it easier and better. It's good and it's getting better even. Um, but like you said, one of the biggest things is insurance. It's the hardest thing to get yourself covered where you feel comfortable, like you're not gonna lose your house.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Yeah, I see it's becoming w really popular in Nebraska, in our area. I know our neighbors are a part of agritourism. They had a big bus come out here not too long ago. They fed them, they weren't here very long, but they they fed them and they were traveling around looking at other farms.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

There are a couple of things I would say about agritourism, just for me. I'm sure you've got other things to tell people. But one thing the challenge is is food. Indiana is getting better about smothering you with laws about food. It helps to partner with people who will donate, like our local butchers will donate barbecue, things like that. That's the best situation. But once you get into providing food, it gets complicated.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Um, it does, especially with allergies.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

It just dawned on me that allergies and just doing things safely at the right temperature, all that kind of thing. So that's a complication. Food's a complication, insurance. The other thing people don't think about with petting zoos. So we've been doing this um not publicly, but we have been hosting people at our farm for six years. Having babies, everybody wants babies. You know, you've got hundreds. I know have you had to be breeding, you have to have a plan. You've got to have and you have to have socialization of animals for people to be able to just walk up and feed and pet and brush. So people come and they want to buy. Oh, I need a donkey and I need a cow because I'm gonna have a petting zoop. You need one of each. I personally, I don't believe you can have just a cow and a donkey because they're not friends, they need to be friends.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

My donkeys and cows don't hang out, unless uh there is only one of them for some reason in an area, which never happens now. But I will have my donkeys in a one corner of a pasture. My donkeys might be here in the pasture, my many horses might be here, and then I feel like my cows will even segregate into groups too. It's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

All these animals bond and they bond with their own species. They do. I mean, I'm really big on animal behavior. I love to see the personalities and things, and I just think donkeys need donkeys, cows need this. Is me, I think they need anyway, and then also they mature, and people want to pet the little ones, they want to pet the babies, they want a picture with a baby, and so the you just you have to have a plan beyond this year.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

I can have the most tame cow that comes up. I've got one that'll give me hugs for treats, except for I don't let her do it during fly season. She doesn't realize she's got big horns on her head sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

We have one you can put a 20% protein cube in your mouth. He'll give her a kiss and take it right out of her mouth.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Oh gosh, that's he doesn't even let the dogs give him a kiss. But you mentioned flies, that's why he's mentioning this.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

He's like, Oh my god, yeah, that happens, but they're dang babies. Oh, I spend so much time trying to get them to butter up to me before they're weaned, and they're little stinkers, stinkers, but once they've got some cake, once they get that 20 that protein cake, then and they figure out how good that is, then they come around.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

They are drive out in the field and giving them sweet treats, and then before you know it, they'll be up by the golf cart. Not even sweet treats, it's the 20% protein.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah, we call it the trees, but but they get a taste of that and they're all for it.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

We are buddies, then once they're weaned and they like the treats, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

My problem is is I get so attached, that's why I have so many. Yeah, I get way too attached. At one time I had 13 bulls because I liked them all. My husband's like, What are you gonna do with them?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

And then you're you keep trying to keep them away from heifers that could be coming in the cycle. It's just constant moving cows around.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

It is so my husband started making me go take my bowls up and get them collected for heifer sex, so I would stop keeping bowls. I won't eat my own pets. I even my commercial cattle, we have commercials too. But those the the we get our beef from my neighbor because I won't eat my own pets. So I don't know. Sean's either gonna have to figure out a deal where he sets up a locker appointment and tells me it's the neighbors if he wants me to eat my own, and I didn't never tell me any different, but yeah, I had to learn learn the hard way.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Scottish Highlands have a nutritional value of salmon, and it's better for you than chicken, is what we've researched.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

I have heard that. I've also been told. Have you tried it? We've tried it.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

I have never heard from the steer that we bought and sold, but yeah. I in my opinion, I couldn't tell much different, but I didn't eat enough of it, you know. It was just the burger.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Yeah, we didn't get the sticks, we didn't I've been told that it's better than any other beef out there. Yeah, so I have some friends that are supposed to be hooking me up with some to try. So hopefully we'll get a try some. Um, I stopped naming because there's way too many bowls out there. People really need to start steering those, and they make awesome pets. I don't know how many steers you have at your place, but my steers make awesome pets, and they make awesome babysitters for calves. They're like the best babysitters ever for your weaned calves.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

So that's Augie for us. He he was our first bottle-fed baby, uh-huh. And he's out there right with him, laying with them, and the mothers are off grazing.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Yeah, I have a picture. We have a carport we put out there just for shade and windbreak. And I have a picture of him the very first, I don't know what, he was maybe two years old as a steer. We put him out there with all the cow calf pears, and they parked all their babies in this carport, and he's just sitting. I'm like, it's Uncle Augie and the babies. It was the cutest thing.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

I have a gal that got a uh bowl from me and and I sent a steer at the time for a companion because I believed that they need to have there needs to be two, and she had other cattle, but Uncle Chuck takes care of all the babies out there the Highland babies, the commercial babies.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Isn't that funny?

SPEAKER_02 32:38

He takes care of everybody, but Sean keeps asking me why I have all these steers, and I said, Well, everybody needs a babysitter, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

We have a breeding bull that is this big uh silver aca, and he's gorgeous, big neck, and he looks so I don't know, he's just he's just big and beautiful, and he stalks around real slow and he makes this kind of growling noise. But Augie, Uncle Augie. If we haven't separated for very long, when they see each other, they're bros, when they see each other, this big old silver bowl that looks so big and mean, we'll go over and just kind of rub noses. Like, oh my gosh, it's because they've got this whole bromance thing going on because they missed each other.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

Yeah, we have that too. Mid-size, he was supposed to be 42 inches, but he's not 42 inches, he's way bigger. He slipped on some ice or did something and broke his lateral phalanges in three different all three different places. And oh, I was giving him 52 pills a day, uh, maloxicam and uh gabapentin. But I could put him in with all of my mini bowls, and he was just the big old babysitter. He loves when he gets to see some of my other the little ones that he'd start he had been with before.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yeah, see, I this is what I love about Highlands. I mean, there's first of all, they're very docile and easy to socialize to humans. So when we have the folks with challenges at the end, or we'll have a group from a longer-term residential, you know, somebody that can't see further than right here, they'll be very gentle. They'll be so um just so nice and gentle. And I love that. But I just I love watching their behaviors and how they'll connect with each other and they bond not only with other animals, but certain, it's almost like certain Highlands will pick a human and bond with that human. The one that he was talking about that actually, I know it sounds really crazy, and people are gonna look at me like I'm crazy because if they don't know me. Well, maybe I'm crazy, but this long bull. I named him Emilio Estevez. If anybody knows who that is, this is it's it's gonna age me. I had to name five cows all at once. So I named them Emilio Esteves, Molly Ringwald, um Ali Sheedy, Jed Nelson. I don't know. Anyway, I had to name them all after this one actress from one movie or something. Anyway, um, Emilio Estevez was feral. He was wild, he was not even nice. He would he would rear up with his horns and try to stick my husband like goats do when they're fine.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Or trying to halter break him, is the only time he does it.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

He was gorgeous. I wanted to halter break him, and he was just mean. But we had a lady uh who was a good friend of mine now just through the highlands. This this bull, Emilio, totally feral, lives in the jungle over on 10 acres that's not attached to us. This lady who came to speak to us about redemption and forgiveness and wonderful things said, I want to go meet that pretty cow. The pretty cow. I said, No, that is a mean bull. He is love friendly. He I call him murder cow. Oh I know I'm saying cow. I understand. That's okay. Anyway, she made me take her into this jungle, this place I call the jungle, and she called him. And I'll tell you what, he picked her. He came out of the creek. I said, He won't come to you. She's calling him Mimi. I'm like, do not call him Mimi. He's a mean animal. He came up out of the creek, walked all the way to the golf cart, and they have been friends ever since. She's the one that taught him to do the little kissy thing.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

Oh, this is the apple.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

And now he people pet him on the head, feed him by hand, he lets us do the little kissy thing. Oh, that's crazy. I I don't understand it, but I do think sometimes an animal picks their human to bond with. It will happen, I think, too.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

And they do like the protein treats. They do like the protein treat. Yeah. So is he still a bowl or is he a steer now?

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Still a bull.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Still a bowl.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

We don't steer anything unless we sell them and they say that that they want it steered.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

And we are considering it's very I know we're probably gonna get hate comments, but we are considering um, you know, butchering and what we would do for that. And and we there's there is a a lot of opinions around us that they don't need to be steered early to butcher. I don't know. I know lots of people say you've got to steer.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

I think it's the most humane thing, but we banned. They get ban I mean, I always give mine banamine versus cutting. I don't know if there's controversy on which one is truly a better option. Now, for me, when I look at it, I can tell you which one I'd prefer if I was that that animal.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

And then a calf at six or seven days old is the best, but you never know once what around here.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

There's so many people who still want to keep them intact, and it's I agree they're two angles.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

I feel like if they are not bowl quality, if I don't feel their bowl quality, they get steered. And there's probably only well, there's 13 bowls. If I would not breed them or replace something, I'm not I'm not at 13 bowls anymore, or replace something and retain it myself, it gets steered. Those to me, they make great pets, and sometimes I'm learning that they just they need to be beef. It's part of it. And we have actually talked about now he's gonna have to take these to my grandpa's, so I don't have a lot of contact with them because I if I did, they wouldn't go anywhere. So he's gonna have to keep him at grandpa's, and he if he tells me that he takes something in a week or whatever later, it seems to be easier on me than if he says I'm taking so and so to town today. I'm like, ah, instant tears rolling.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

So if you do um start doing much with agritourism, that is a very sensitive topic. These highlands are so popular, and I mean, look at them. They're they are like they are grass puppies, they can be, yeah. Just want to look at them and hug them and take pictures, and and I understand it. I do. Yeah, that thank goodness. Once you get to like that, you know, 13 bowls, is it's a different.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

I finally got I finally have sold. I have eight still. Well, you have six. Oh yeah, I have eight. No, two of them now. I sold one. Um, two of them are myaka registered cleanup bowls, and then I have the other ones that well, you're doing a great job. I mean, my goodness, you're doing a good job. It's a lot, but I love it. I wouldn't trade it either. I am a radiology tech, I'm currently retired. I keep my license up. I went from radiology to boutique life and I traded clothes for cows. So, and I really like it because it's my therapy, and so I can see how therapeutical it would be for so many people and to have that that are in your area is just absolutely awesome. I think that I think it's great. And do you guys have anything else that you want to add before I close out that you can think of that we you want to mention?

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Do you guys um try to schedule spring calving? Yeah, that's that's with us.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

We we try to have little calves on the ground all year round so people because of agri tourists just because people love seeing them run up to the to the fence and the only time well we were year round, then we tried to do some syncing up because it was with so many where we have so many, and we use um a lot of our commercials. And the when I I started out the long way when I was trying to do high parks, I mean I started with registered um British Whites and White Parks, so I use those now as surrogants to reset cows, but to keep everybody separated and have the area for it made it hard. So we have started trying last year, it was our first attempt to sync up. So then I should not have but maybe two or three calving after the middle of July until, and usually I'd like to have them in September, but somehow we missed that this year. Um, we're in November, and so then we've tried to sync up this group. So then I'll have those calves here, and the ones that are getting ready to leave that we're working with to get tame to go, those will be available about any season. It's hard. And the only reason why I don't like it to do July and August here is fly strike.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

If you've lost one to fly strike, you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

And we have first cav, and it's because mother wouldn't uh lift its rear end off. That colostrum poop is terrible.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

We hate we shave their we have to shave their butts. Um, even in the winter time, we have to shave some of them. It just it is terrible, it sticks to them, it's it's ooey gooey, and when you're shaving their butts, it's uh it can be a hot mess. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

But oh, it was bad.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

It is well, thank you guys so much. I appreciate you guys being on. It was so fun talking to you, and you guys are out there doing remarkable things. I love it, I love the name. You guys are awesome, and we'll let you do a shout out and say, Hi, Taylor Blake. Hi, hi, hopefully, she'll be watching this episode. Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Horns and Hoves. We'll be back next week with some more guests.