LIT112: The Life of a Showgirl with Mara Eller

17: Punk Scholar Meets Showgirl (with Micah Vandegrift)

• Mara Eller • Season 1 • Episode 17

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For our second bonus episode and our first interview, I’m joined by musician and scholar Micah Vandegrift.

Micah and I met in graduate school when we both studying American culture at FSU. He specialized in music culture, specifically local post-punk scenes. In short, NOT a swiftie.

I invited him to listen to the album for the first time with me and share his thoughts and impressions after each song. We ended up talking about musical cohesion, sonic arcs, and whether authenticity and performance are mutually exclusive.

You can find Micah on his website or on his porch in Raleigh, North Carolina.

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Get all the LIT112 writing prompts in one place: www.maraeller.com/prompts.

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Welcome to Lit one 12, the Life of a Showgirl where we treat Taylor Swift's latest album like a novel I'm your host, Mara Eller, a literature and writing teacher with 16 years of experience at the high school and college level. I just retired to focus on editing and book coaching, but when I started getting requests for this series on social media, I couldn't resist. Whether you're a veteran swifty or just an AP lit nerd like me who happens to like her music, all are welcome here. So grab your metaphorical notebook and let's unpack this record together, chapter by chapter, song by song. For our bonus episode today, I have an interview with my friend Micah Vandergrift. We met in graduate school at FSU, where he studied. Post-punk music culture in Florida. I invited him to listen to the life of a showgirl for the first time, live with me on the show and share his thoughts and impressions after each song. We ended up talking about musical cohesion, sonic arcs, and whether authenticity and performance are mutually exclusive. The interview lasted well over three hours, but I've managed to trim it down here To just over an hour. Let's dive in.

Mara:

Welcome to the podcast, Micah. You're our first, but not our last guest. Micah is one of my longest friends, I've known him since before I even met my husband. We met in graduate school back in, 2005, here in Tallahassee at Florida State. We were both in the American Studies program so we've known each other, what, I guess almost basically 20 years at this point. Micah studied music as part of his interdisciplinary work in the American Studies program and also some literature. And I wanted to have him on the podcast because he's got a really sharp mind for American culture and, that tie into music. So I wanted to get his perspective as a musician, and he's also not a Swifty at all, has never heard a single song on this album to his knowledge. So I thought it would be really fun to have him listen to each song for the first time here, live on the podcast, and share his reactions, just thinking about this album as a cultural artifact in the 21st century. So after that long introduction, Micah, say hello and tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you do.

Micah Vandegrift:

hi Mara. So good to see you. Hello to all the listeners. it's funny that you used the word cultural artifact because that's exactly what I would describe as the things that were interesting to me when we were in grad school. less so in my professional life now, but still very much a hobby. I, thought that I wanted to be an ethnomusicologist, which is basically a, a fancy anthropologist who's interested in music cultures. And once I realized that that was more musical training than I was willing to commit to, I pivoted. I've studied music, and culture, in grad school. And then, as a hobby since then, spent the last, decade working as a librarian. most of my interest there is, in collecting and curating cultural materials. more lately I've been working in the technology field. Something that really excites me is, how. Culture exists and happens within communities. what I specifically studied way back in the day was subcultures and subcultures around music. Taylor Swift and other stars like her, create their subcultures, the around the music, but also around their persona. So it's something I'm always aware of and paying attention to, even if I don't do deep dives. this is strange from a person who listens and likes music, I think, but I'm actually not a person that typically listens to lyrics. I could sing you the baseline or a major riff from, my favorite song or something I heard a hundred years ago. But I often, don't pay very much attention to the words that are being said in the song. I've started to shift toward that more lately, as I. Got curious about storytelling in culture. I'm a big fan of movies as well, and realized that there's a lot that goes into lyric writing and songwriting, and so I've started to pay more attention. That's had me drift into listening to more country than I ever wanted to admit to my 14-year-old self. I think it's a genre that has captured my interest in a way I've never, ever expected. it's interesting to come here now and, see what Taylor has done coming from that genre also into pop megastar and producing this album.

Mara:

That's cool because as you say, her roots are also in country. And I do think one of the things that country music has to offer, which correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems like country comes out of folk.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah. There's absolutely a connection.

Mara:

and folk music is very lyrically based, right? Like as a genre of music, it seems to me that it's defined by storytelling and, you know, emphasis on lyrics. It's usually a very simple, like very low production. Usually just a few instruments and a singer and telling stories through song.

Micah Vandegrift:

I think some people would quibble with you and say, not all of the folk tradition is lyrically based, but that's, let's do another podcast on that.

Mara:

okay. so to your knowledge, like, are you aware of, like, are there any Taylor Swift songs that you know, that you're like, oh yes, I know that song. I know I've heard that a bunch, or,

Micah Vandegrift:

what was it, 1989 and around that time when she was releasing those albums and they were just, you know, popular at parties, you

Mara:

mm-hmm.

Micah Vandegrift:

shake it off and, anti-hero.

Mara:

The big singles.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah. That everyone would know and be aware of those I'm, yeah, I've heard And could, you know, say, oh, I think that's a Taylor Swift song.

Mara:

so it sounds like, you have like a basic, culturally aware person awareness of Taylor Swift and her music and as a celebrity. and maybe some respect for her skill, I would love to know just like a brief encapsulation of your opinion of her maybe. I know that you're aware that I've been doing this podcast and you listened to the first three episodes, including, the Fate of Ophelia episode, right? The concept album, unreliable, narrator, and then that first song. so you've heard my argument about the lyrical quality of the album, but maybe before that, or apart from that, what would you say is your opinion of Taylor Swift and her music?

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah. Some of the, courses that I took in college that have stuck with me the most were in this area called Music Appreciation. And at that time I only appreciated a certain style of music, a certain genre of music, and it opened, my mind, which was, indie and post hardcore. And, that was just what I gravitated toward. since then and over the years since then, I've really worked hard to be an appreciator of, all kinds of music. And so I'm listening to country music now and listening to jazz, hip hop fusion, and lots of instrumental stuff and, classical. So, back to the question, I would say that I have a great respect for, artists generally anyone that can put a pen to a paper or a finger to a guitar or a stick to a drum. I stand back in awe because that's something that I like to do also. and I'm, just inspired when people do that. So at a base level, I have a respect for her because she's doing it, she's doing the work,

Mara:

You play the drums.

Micah Vandegrift:

my first instrument was guitar, so I played guitar since I was about 10 years old. then picked up the drums a little bit after that. for however many years now, I've been playing, both kind of switching back and forth, guitar and drums. I'm excited to see Taylor Swift continue to mature as an artist. you sort of lay out this question of, comparing her to Bob Dylan and can, songwriting reach a level that we've held up as high art and culture? Right. I think she, she could be that. I think she could do that. I think there's lots of people, uh, uh, you know, out there who, who have that capacity, and are never discovered. And she obviously has the stage. She has a world stage. so I'm excited for her growth as an artist, and I think this is a really distinct pivot point.

Mara:

Awesome. Okay. let's dive into our project for today, which is Mike is going to listen to each song for the first time and then after each song is finished, we'll pause and just hear what stands out to you.

Micah Vandegrift:

All right. I have the, fate of Ophelia queued up. That's the first one.

Mara:

Yes. The fate of Ophelia.

Micah Vandegrift:

Okay. 3, 2, 1. Interesting. first top of mind thoughts are. I was surprised at how the instrumentation wasn't what I expected. So I still think of her as a guitarist. So yeah, I was surprised by the, the instrumentation. Also, like the, I call it like an eighties bass line, that kicks in right at the beginning of the first, verse and kind of carries throughout. I want to compare, like as I was listening to the song, the, vocal quality. So there's two other, female singers that came to mind right away, like at the beginning. Well, one right at the beginning and one's sort of in the middle. you're familiar with Lana Del Rey?

Mara:

Yes, of course.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah. So at like maybe the first verse and then leading into the chorus, I was like, if I didn't know this is Taylor Swift, I could have imagined that this was a Lana Del Re song, you know?

Mara:

Yeah.

Micah Vandegrift:

and I have a really particular sense of the vibe that Lana Del re puts out into the world. And in my mind, that's very different from the vibe that Taylor, has put out into the world. So that was like A clash of my consciousness and then a little later, there's a pop punk band called Paramore for a long time. And the lead singer of that band is named Hailey Williams. I think she's an incredible singer. she has recently put out a solo album but again, thinking of the, the vocal quality, both Lana Del Rey and Hailey Williams, I think also would, think of themselves as lyricists or have, put some time into that craft. But again, I just don't pay attention to the words enough. So I'm always listening to the, fabric of how the instruments and the voice become the song, you

Mara:

Mm.

Micah Vandegrift:

I'm listening to the piecing together of all of it.

Mara:

Those are astute, observations because I've heard, the LA of Del Rey reference and I've definitely heard the Paramore Haley Williams reference. Also, Paramore apparently opened for Taylor on maybe some part of the ERA'S tour or a different tour. And I know that she and Lana are friends or she has said that she really loves Lana Del Ray's music. So I think those are probably not accidental. when you said that Lana Delrey has a specific vibe, it wasn't quite the word you used, but how would you describe that?

Micah Vandegrift:

was, yeah,

Mara:

Okay.

Micah Vandegrift:

was the word I used.

Mara:

How would you describe the Lana Delrey vibe?

Micah Vandegrift:

okay, so three, three words are like, not three words, three phrases, kind of, witchy, California, goth and sunkissed black lips. it's a mystique,

Mara:

Mm-hmm.

Micah Vandegrift:

through in her music also.

Mara:

I would say maybe like s. There's a saltiness that I feel like I haven't maybe heard as much on other Taylor songs that I've listened to before, They both have like a, a deeper alto voice that Taylor's really starting to, I first noticed it on folklore, but she's definitely on this album really, embracing the lower registers,

Micah Vandegrift:

yeah,

Mara:

which I love

Micah Vandegrift:

yeah.

Mara:

'cause that's my range too. So I love singing it. So I'll let you define the rating system, but like, let's, let's have you give it a rating, whether that's how much you like it or how much you. Respect it as a musical artifact.

Micah Vandegrift:

I think the rating that my mind first went to was five being, I hear it every party I know I can kind of, know the tune and a few words here and there. And then one being, I'm never gonna listen to this again, or I don't expect to hear it again. So i'll put it at a four.

Mara:

Okay, so this is a cultural popularity impact rating.

Micah Vandegrift:

But, I think there's a trick to first songs on albums, right? Like, decided to put this song first because it fit the story in the narrative that you've been unpacking already. but also they crafted it musically to be the first song on the album. Albums are built to have a narrative arc, a musical narrative arc in the same way that I think you're unpacking, the lyrical arc of this as a concept album. So I think it's trickery that it's the first song and, that it would be at a four on my scale of one to five. But I'll play the game. Yeah, let's play the game. I'm into the trickery.

Mara:

What do you mean the trickery?

Micah Vandegrift:

That first songs are the popular ones.

Mara:

Okay. I love this idea of the musical narrative arc. So what would you say that this song is leading you to expect? Other than you would expect it to be a single, basically. like if you're sitting down to listen to this album, you know, you put it on the record player, like you're not gonna skip around. You hear this and you think, okay, this album is going to be what.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah, I feel like it's setting me up to expect, a moody, pulsing. I'm Kind of pushing forward. So energetic, but introspective. and like, I have a minor feeling, you know, and that's not a bad feeling to go into an album with, but I would be surprised if, you know, like. Shake it off was the next song or that, that style. So yeah, it's kind of setting me up for like a gray, chilly winter day where the sun shines through every once in a while.

Mara:

Okay. I like that. That might be a relevant metaphor when we get to another song. Okay, well, let's go to track two, Elizabeth Taylor and see what you think.

Micah Vandegrift:

All right, Elizabeth Taylor, I like that one much more than the fate of Ophelia. Why did I like it more than the other one? This one sounded, less like a pop banger, and it had some, more interesting musical stuff going on. a couple of the things that I noticed off the bat was the drum sounds change a couple times through the song, not just where the beat kicks in, but through different, chorus or verse or bridge.

Mara:

Bridge where it's.

Micah Vandegrift:

It's a little tighter. Yeah. And then the, the first, verse when it kicks in, it's in a big, punchy, beat. And then at some point it sounds like it shifts from you know, electronic, hit to like a real drum kit. So that's intriguing to me because, I'm thinking how would they do that live? which is an exciting way to experience music. Of course. the, overall vibe that I was, jamming out to was that this felt a little more like not r and b, a little more sing songy and that kind of, the way the vocal line went. I really like that. Especially on the verses kind of the singsongs back and forth that, had a nice flow that was matched by the music that was happening behind it and underneath it. really, well meshed together. I've started to, in my music, listening generally, like listening to a song and then your mind starts to drift and then you come back to the song. I forget in what section of the song, but my mind was drifting to, like old, old Hollywood. Elizabeth Taylor, I know that that's, there's a, there's a theme there, but from the sonic texture of the album, that's where my mind kind of drifted to it's not just nostalgia for the good, but we're always kind of looking back on old Hollywood and wagging our finger a little bit at the way that they, treated people, or the way that the film industry, evolved or, you know, money and excess and et cetera, et cetera. So it's like a cautious nostalgia maybe is how I was, that's where my mind was drifting in the middle of the song.

Mara:

Okay, awesome. So as we continue through our musical narrative arc here, what does this add to. What you got from the fatal Ophelia

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah. I know you wanna think of this as a novel, and I'm thinking of it more as a movie,

Mara:

that works

Micah Vandegrift:

In our backgrounds also, one of the things we used to study and talk about, But this would be, you know, the scene where, so we've already, we've sort of been introduced to the characters or the vibe of the movie, and this is where kind of, zoom in on a particular relationship or a particular story or a, character that we're gonna follow for a little while and sort of giving some emotional complexity. so yeah, if, the fate of Ophelia was, sort of, excited, introduction, I'd say that, Elizabeth Taylor has now left me intrigued for more.

Mara:

Okay, so give us a rating and then we'll do the next one,

Micah Vandegrift:

What was my scale again? Five is, hear it everywhere and, can sing along. One was, I'm never gonna listen to this again. I think this is a four also. And now I'm rethinking the fate of affiliate would probably be a three.

Mara:

three and a half

Micah Vandegrift:

Let's not get into halfs.

Mara:

Let's go to the next one, which is Alite.

Micah Vandegrift:

All right. I'm ready with Olay. Oh, man. okay, so What I heard clearly was, there's this, style of music, era of music where, I think I would call it like the fifties and sixties girl group, you know, like a nostalgia for that style of music everybody has heard it, and maybe our parents or our grandparents actually knew some of those songs, or would've, danced at the sock hop to them or whatever. you cannot not hear that in this song. it's in the tones that they use. It's in the chord structure. It's in her little oh, oh, oh. it's hard to, oh man, now that's gonna be stuck in my head all day. Earworm.

Mara:

And that the bridge builds where don't you sweat it, baby. It ends in that.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. but that puts me in a different. Emotional reactive state than the previous two songs already. I feel, a little lighter. but still, there's like, reverb there. And so it kind of has this, echoy, mystical. there's something else still in the guitar tone, that isn't pure, it isn't, unfiltered, you know,

Mara:

This is the song I was thinking of when you said it's like. Cloudy, gray sky with the sun breaking through. Like this is the song, you feel that sun breaking through, but there are still clouds. And I don't know if you caught the lyric that, the sky is alite, so she's singing about the sky in the song. So

Micah Vandegrift:

yeah, I agree. And then, oh, I really like when, generally in music, when, vocals sing in Octave together. I think that's the first time I've heard that in the few songs we've listened to. and I think it was in the Bridge also where the melody line kind of goes a little broader than we've heard. So yeah, all those things make me feel a little more happy, A little more, excited. A little more, like we've the top down on the Mustang and we're, we're driving even if it is a little cloudy and chilly still, you know. the lyric I wrote down, is life is a song. It ends when it ends move on. and there's this interesting interplay that really great songwriters do where they have a lyric that is sung in a way that the words seem different than, or they have a happy lyric and a sad song, or a sad lyric and a happy song. a way to kind of give some counterpoint. And I think that that lyric did that for me, that life is a song and ends when it ends move on. But I didn't want to move on from this song. and I don't care if life is a song, I like this thing that I'm in right now. Let's keep this going, you know?

Mara:

Yeah, I love that. It kind of gave me chills because I think what you just described really encapsulates what I see this song getting at, which is. That duality of life is hard and sad and out of our control, and yet it's also wonderful and we don't want it to be that way. And, and so she's saying you have to just embrace, you know, enjoy the present moment. Enjoy this song as long as it lasts, because it really is good. The fact that it's gonna end doesn't mean it's not good now. That's so true about life Okay. Give us a rating and then let's go to the next one

Micah Vandegrift:

This is a five for me. I'd like to listen to this song again.

Mara:

right now. Awesome. Okay. this is one of the things, You're like, why didn't they put this one first? I of course, see as one more sign that it's a concept album. They didn't put it first because this song does not encapsulate the full mood. it doesn't serve as an overture for the musical in the way that maybe the first one does. All right, let's go to the next one, which is father Figure

Micah Vandegrift:

Less, um, let's say about the music on this one. The musical content of Father Figure seems a little less, dynamic than the other, song so far. actually I paid way more attention to the lyrics on this song because the music was there was less there for my ear or my mind to attach to. two things that stood out musically were, there were some strings that came in on the bridge, it added a gravitas, right there in the heart of the song. juxtaposing that with the lyrical content, it made me feel weird and awkward and I don't want the gravitas if it means all this loyalty and protege and empire building. And, I couldn't help but think of Gilded Age and robber barons and, all old Hollywood and the, we do things this way because it's the way we do things. And, so yeah, all that came through absolutely clearly in the, in the lyrical content.

Mara:

I think this song for me was where the discomfort that I had felt a little bit on, so like on a fate of Ophelia and even still with Alite, really became clear. And it was like, I don't, I don't like the feeling I'm getting from this, but there are moments that I love and then I feel uncomfortable. And I think that makes it a really hard album as a pop album because pop is supposed to just be comfortable and easy and fun. And this is, but then it isn't. That's what I think makes it so interesting. yeah, so it's cool you picked up on that. I think of it as a dissonance where it's not necessarily a dissonance within the music, although there are places where that happens too, where you have like, you know, two notes next to each other that create that dissonance, but there's a dissonance between the lyrics and the music, or between one song and the next song

Micah Vandegrift:

Great use of your mu musical terminology there. Yes.

Mara:

Yeah.

Micah Vandegrift:

is the word I've been seeking this whole time.

Mara:

Well, you know, that's what I'm here for, wordsmithery every now and again. I get it right. Okay. Um, give us a rating and then we'll do the next song.

Micah Vandegrift:

I'll give this one a three. no, no, no, no, no, no, no. this one a two just'cause I, makes me feel weird. I don't wanna listen to it again.

Mara:

Nice. I love it. I love your honesty. Okay, we have eldest daughter. I actually never noticed that. This one's a father, and then the next one is a daughter. So it's like this very obvious family dynamic connection. But as you'll see, I feel like the songs couldn't be more different.

Micah Vandegrift:

Just finished Elda stutter. Okay. so this, if you were to play, you know, songs for me and not tell me who they were, this would be the one that I would say is a Taylor Swift song. I would call this a ballad. if I think that. We're meant to think of it as a ballad. the instrumentation echoes that also, you know, just a classic piano, guitar, bass, a lack of a rhythm section, you know, all that, sets me up to think this is a ballad. it was really interesting. I know this is happening more and more in lyrical content, in contemporary music, but it's really interesting to me how modern her words were in the song, right? Like, talking about the internet and memes and, like that the, the chorus included the, the phrase, I'm not a bad bitch, or savage, you know, like that again makes it stand out from the, what I would expect from a, from a ballad. I'm also thinking back to country genre and, I can't imagine the lyrical content of a country song, that is a ballad being like this. So playing with the genre, playing with the type of song, lots of that happening here where my mind drifted to'cause the lyrics were so far forward is every time she, that line came up, never gonna leave You now, I was like, is that a threat or a promise? You know? And,

Mara:

Great question. great insight

Micah Vandegrift:

I really like, again, I, I'm thinking back to country music here. even now, minutes after listening, I have like images in my mind of the story that was told in this song, falling off the trampoline, breaking your Arm, you know? and those, those images are connecting to my own memories or memories of my kids on the trampoline in the front yard. I am left with a sense of, trueness the instrumentation, the music is less exciting But I, now I have word pictures in my mind that are, that are stuck.

Mara:

Okay, so what would you rate it?

Micah Vandegrift:

Eldest daughter, I would give a rating of a solid three. Yeah. So obviously the, the course is memorable even the tune, I, I can still recall the tune. So there's something, in the craft of the songwriting here that that'll stick with me. So it's a, it's a three,

Mara:

Okay, let's go to the next one, which is ruin the friendship.

Micah Vandegrift:

Ruin the friendship got me thinking about high school.

Mara:

Yeah.

Micah Vandegrift:

So,

Mara:

You have someone you wish you had kissed.

Micah Vandegrift:

well, I'll tell you another day. Yeah. okay.

Mara:

we all,

Micah Vandegrift:

yeah, it's, it's part of life, right? I feel like I'm on an emotional journey now. Like Because the music was a little spare, I tended to pay a little more attention to the story that was told in the lyrics. And where my mind went was that this sounded like, felt like a little mini arc within the larger story. So if this was a character that had been introduced at the beginning, maybe we spend a chapter, delving into, a part of their life that feeds the story later on. But it's like a snapshot into a, a different character's, life,

Mara:

Okay. What's the main thing you learned about the character then?

Micah Vandegrift:

that they're conflicted, conflicted in how they feel and or approach the world. obviously there's relational, dynamics going on here, but yeah, I'd say it's a sense of sense of conflict, in the narrator of the song here. So I was thinking about if ruin the friendship is, a mini arc that we're following, what is it gonna feed to the overall story that will off in the end? You know? And, if we're reading this album, from, track one to track whatever, 10 or 11, there a payoff in the end for this character or for this conflicted relationship that we've just learned about?

Mara:

I'm just thinking now. I think maybe what I would see is that like the, the insight that she comes to in this song that maybe does influence choices that she seems to make in later songs is. I mean, it's obviously, you know, take the risk, don't be so careful. But more specifically, you can't control things as much as you think you can anyways. So stop wasting so much time worrying about what might happen and just follow your heart because you're gonna get hurt anyway. And like avoiding hurt is no way to live, and it's just gonna rob you of joy, which is another powerful lesson that I sure need to hear more than once. Okay. Give us a rating and then we'll

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah. I'll give this one a four. I was, more interested in it, than some of the other ones. Less going on musically, but kind of, captured in the story a little bit in my own memories of life long ago

Mara:

Okay, so let's go to the next one, which is, actually romantic.

Micah Vandegrift:

Actually romantic. Hmm. musically, I like this song. It reminds me of, it was kind of the more, more rock inflected of the song so far. I like the, the guitar tone, what the guitar is doing. reminded me of, like late nineties alternative, sort of sounds that, I used to enjoy a lot. I would call it like a radio rock pop song, you know, like, just something you listen to when you're driving around and lyrically, like, obviously there's a story there, and it felt a little repetitive, right? the theme of the song, didn't seem too deep. We're just kind of, singing along and here we go. and I think it felt short. Less there, I think.

Mara:

To me it's. A bit jarring from the previous two songs that have lulled me into this introspective, more authentic melodic ballad, you know, feel. And then this one is very different musically, but then also very different lyrically, like not authentic or introspective at all, just sort of externally focused, aggressive,

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah. this felt less like poetry to me and more like pros, more like a note that I would write to. someone, you know,

Mara:

pass them a note. Class

Micah Vandegrift:

yeah,

Mara:

in that sense. It kind of continues that high school feel because there's this like petty, you know, note passing. Like, I'm gonna be mean to you because you were mean to me but I'm gonna make it seem like I'm too cool. And I don't know, I just, I definitely don't like the narrator in this song even though I think she's trying to rise above. I don't think she really succeeds, which is interesting to me. I mean, I think that's intentional. Okay. Give us a rating and then keep going.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah, I'll give this one a three. Because I like the style of music that it sits in, but less about the song itself, but I might listen to it again'cause the music is interesting. Reminds me of stuff I used to like

Mara:

Okay, so next we have wishlist.

Micah Vandegrift:

Wishlist with dollar signs. Okay. wishlist. I like, man, the music is all over the place. I can't remember the last time I've listened to where there, seems like so many different genres or parts of genres being pieced together. In a single album. So this felt like a ballad. And then it has a really cool, nice r and b hip hop beat. I kept wondering who the they was, who are they, you know? and if you really just want me, you know, why do you care what they think, you know? And, uh, there was a lot of that back and forth throughout this song. back to genres in her vocal stylings, she was doing what I've heard most often in, Like rap, like trap rap is the quick choppy, like, you know, she does that more than a few times through the song. And I think that's interesting it lent in interesting texture, rhythmic texture to the lyrics. and then in the second verse, there's this really wacky musical shift in the second half of the second verse. shocked me, surprised me. the first thing I wanted to do was rewind and try to hear what did they do to shift the music in that one section? Why musically? was that a decision that they made? But then why? What is it supposed to do for the song? What is it supposed to do for the album? So I would, I'd go back and listen to this song for that part, verse two, that, that little musical shift in the second half.

Mara:

where do you feel like this leaves you in the narrative, musical narrative arc? You've had a few songs that are a little different.

Micah Vandegrift:

yeah, yeah. I'm confused now. I don't know, like where am I at in the story? Who, who are my characters? who's talking to who? I just thought, we've been reading, some Shakespeare, with our boys and, there's a funny thing. Shakespeare does sometimes where it's like, you know, people are talking over each other and back and forth and, and so we're having to do lots of explaining you know, this is that character and they're dressed up as this person and this person thinks they're that. And, that's kind of how I feel right now in the, in the middle of, of the, story arc here. The, the

Mara:

Obviously Shakespeare is an interesting reference in light of this album. Okay. Give us a rating.

Micah Vandegrift:

three.

Mara:

Okay, so next we have wood,

Micah Vandegrift:

Yes. Alright wood okay so I as it started I was thinking okay if there were no lyrics and I put all these songs in order None of it would make any sense That's how I feel right now So this all my impressions musically are oh this is a funky fun Motown sort of disco vibe which doesn't make any sense with half of the songs we've listened to so far if it were on a different album maybe I liked wood the sound was cool actually oh it just hit me that it reminded me of the Jackson five the guitar riff at the beginning obviously I this song is the most overtly sexual of the ones we've listened to so far yeah who is this character Who are we following what's happening but the music really is throwing me off the variety of genre and style Yeah

Mara:

Yeah. that's definitely interesting because there are some musical threads that I can identify, a lot of songs have that, like strings or harp type sort of showgirl feel that I call it. And there's a lot of songs that, the forward baseline that you pointed out, which this one maybe has. and then. I think this was on the Switch on Pop podcast episode They're talking about the dry seventies drums. I still don't understand what a dry drum sound is, except

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

this is it.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

so it's there. But I think for me, not being as much of a. of music as you are. what I hear is it's almost like the theme is diversity or something like the theme is that there

Micah Vandegrift:

Hmm

Mara:

But you've been pointing out that are hearing other eras in a lot of these songs. You mentioned, like sixties girl groups. For Alite, track three

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

that golden era, golden age, forties or fifties Hollywood sound for Elizabeth Taylor.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yep

Mara:

then that folk ballad, um, like the nineties alt rock for, romantic and then this seventies Motown Funk, Jackson five sound now. So they like, at first I wanted them to go in chronological order they definitely don't. But what I was just thinking about now as a theory is that I feel like there's a Bit more cohesion between the first three songs, and then it started going all over the place in the middle, the lyrics also started going all over the place. And of course, I have my theory that I've explained on this podcast about what the storyline is there, but certainly on first, listen, you're like, is this supposed to be connected? Because it doesn't seem like it. I'm wondering if starting here in wood, which would match my narrative arc theory, that is where there might start to be more cohesion, again, both musically and lyrically.

Micah Vandegrift:

Interesting

Mara:

if you hear that playing out.

Micah Vandegrift:

I'm anxious to hear the next group of songs But now you got me thinking if Taylor is as intentional as we think she is I think she is this is starting to sound like a theater rather than an album like a stage production playing with genres is part of the fun of seeing a musical and also something that I would I'll probably end up doing this after we finish but if I were to listen to the whole thing again I took very few courses on opera but I know that one of the things that ties an opera together is like a trope theme that kind of starts in the beginning and you hear tidbits of it and then it might come up in a minor in the middle and then there's some way that it ties together at the end So I would love to go back try to ignore genre And listen for like the musical theme a twist of melody or a way of a vocal line or something like that that if Taylor and the producers are thinking of this like an opera or like a theater production usually there's some musical Easter egg that is dropped throughout the thing that ties it all together

Mara:

yeah, like a through line. So K-pop, demon hunters. I don't know if you've watched or listened, but,

Micah Vandegrift:

I haven't now

Mara:

that's your next job. You might have to do an episode on that at some point. I wrote an article about that on Substack too, because it sounds awful, like K-pop, awful demon hunters not interested. but I've changed my tune on both of those things, at least in regards to this movie, which I was really impressed by. That storytelling was really powerful and the music was incredibly good. And the Switch on Pop podcast has a great episode on that one. And they were identifying some of those things that you're talking about, where. It's really cool. In the last big song, they use a melody from this sunny, happy song, and then they use it in this really dark song and it's like giving me chills again just thinking about it. So I certainly have not identified anything like that in this album, but I would be thrilled to hear if you find something, I could totally see this becoming. A musical musical on Broadway. And,

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah but then we're mixing pop art or low art with high art and we all know how that goes

Mara:

well do we call Broadway art? high

Micah Vandegrift:

I think of the theater and and opera yeah I guess the middle brow anyway Yeah

Mara:

maybe that'll be a strategic move to help shift herself more towards high art. You never know. so give us a rating for wood and then we will listen to our next song, which is can.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah I would give it a four because it has a really fun poppy vibe I just remembered that there was a I've talked a lot about bass more than I thought I would but there's A riff that the bass does in the second pre-course where it goes and does a really cool run that kind of was a a bright spot in the song for me So I would listen again just to hear that bass riff cause it was really fantastic

Mara:

Okay, let's head into canceled.

Micah Vandegrift:

Interesting canceled Okay So if I were to hear this out of context I would think that it's clearly a song about Cancel culture right And it's an interesting twist on it that the narrator of the song is inside that club and finding who their people are So the cancellation may be righteous or not we can't really tell from their point of view Musically I think I just don't like this song there were a few earlier that I liked something I was curious about This one take it or leave it This is just me but yeah I would've let this one go

Mara:

So you're gonna give this a pretty low rating.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah I think it's a two or a one I'm trying to you know trying to I'm trying to find a redeeming quality and like I think the lyrical content was interesting But yeah too overall

Mara:

Okay, so I was thinking it reminds me sonically in some ways, not always of Elizabeth Taylor because it's got that heavier beat, Elizabeth Taylor also has a lot of strings, at least in the bridge, I believe. It just has like a little bit of a darker feel to me, which I'm always looking for symmetry,

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah Yeah

Mara:

it's like the second track. It'd be nice if it was like the second to last, so the last track is called The Life of a Showgirl, which is obviously the title of the album. what I talk about in the podcast is I think of it as an epilogue, like almost not a real chapter, but a bonus almost. So if you take off life of a showgirl, then cancel becomes the second to last track,

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

which is an interesting

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

looking at that musical arc. so you would agree that maybe there is some sonic, cohesion between those two tracks?

Micah Vandegrift:

yeah I have to listen to Elizabeth Taylor again But yeah I'm yes I think it the feeling that I'm having is back to how I was at the beginning of the album

Mara:

I think I would actually agree that canceled. I mean, obviously in my literary theory you know, we can't cut it. And it does a really important role in the story and I think what people get canceled for that she names is what makes it interesting. I think I would agree that it's the least interesting musically. It's definitely the least interesting bridge like this. Usually the bridges are one of the most interesting parts of the song

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

analysis I realized like I recorded originally included all the words and then I ended up cutting the whole bridge section.'cause there really wasn't anything interesting about it.

Micah Vandegrift:

Hmm.

Mara:

interesting musically or lyrically in this song. do enjoy through the beat and the vibe, but I guess I don't disagree entirely with your take there. So what do you, wait, you already rated this song, right? Two,

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

or

Micah Vandegrift:

A two

Mara:

Begrudgingly.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah Begrudgingly

Mara:

Okay, let's head into honey.

Micah Vandegrift:

All right Yeah honey I like this one it has a good solid melody that repeats a lot but doesn't get boring which is hard to do there's some things she does her voice again that repeat where she I forget the lyric but it's you know the the the down and up she does that throughout What I found myself doing was anticipating that and I don't know what word she's gonna say but I know where this tune is gonna go And so I was ready to go on that up upside with her so that endeared the song to me the melody the base is a theme for me the more I listen the more I hear it On this track they switched bass sounds a few times and it sounded like a good old standup bass couple at times And That usually like moving from electronic production to acoustic instrumentation is meant to give you a feeling of authentic or not meant but that's how it ends up feeling a sense of authenticity or like I'm in the room with these musicians I can hear the slap of the wood and the strings So I would listen to this again to pick out those parts again and hear how the bass changes through the sections of the song

Mara:

The clarinet solo.

Micah Vandegrift:

I wondered what that was Yeah I was trying to place the instrument but yeah that was a nice little touch and then this

Mara:

hear like a, almost a banjo sound the end,

Micah Vandegrift:

I would like to listen for it

Mara:

So we talked a little bit about the musical cohesion across the album, but. Between the songs, how does this one fit or not fit in your opinion?

Micah Vandegrift:

It fits in a strange way I'm trying hard not to think in major minor but I think Honey fits better with the other songs on this album that are also in a major key the kind of the feeling of

Mara:

Like Alite Wood, maybe.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah And which other one did I have here Which list Yeah so I think it actually romantic even I think there's similar feeling So if I were to listen to all these out of order I would group all those songs together and listen to them as a cohesive hole the major key songs on the album And then I would listen to the minor key songs differently

Mara:

so any thoughts about the arc?

Micah Vandegrift:

I want to hear the last one before I can say for sure but it feels like we're coming to a conclusion

Mara:

If you didn't know how many songs were left, do you think it would still feel that way?

Micah Vandegrift:

If I didn't know how many songs were left I would end on this song because it leaves this feeling of conclusion Yeah Um

Mara:

wholeness.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

Re.

Micah Vandegrift:

Resolution That's the one yeah It feels like musically it's resolved if the album ended on a minor key song it might feel kind of unresolved That's what minor keys are meant to do This definitely feels like a musical resolution cause of the key cause of the style mid tempo A little showy a little flourish but still like a solid well-crafted song

Mara:

And I was just thinking, tell me if you agree, of course, but the dissonance that we've been talking about, between the musical tone and the lyrics isn't there in this song, I would say that this

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

Cohesive like the music feels the way the lyrics

Micah Vandegrift:

Yes Yeah I agree a hundred percent And the note that I wrote here was that the theme of this song is reclaiming names And so that that's interesting lyrically There's lots of different ways you could do that but I think the music supports that really well and the music matches the lyrical content

Mara:

so obviously the music can't communicate reclaiming, I don't think, it maybe it's like a confidence or

Micah Vandegrift:

I think it can I think this is me again not not as swifty and not familiar with her whole catalog but some of what I assume or know she's doing with this album is Representing a version of herself as an artist as she grows right so you would expect I would expect, a song like this to be on a Taylor Swift album and so she's reclaiming some of that and casting it in a new light in the context of This album with all these complicated themes we've been talking through So yeah I think you can do it musically I dunno if that's their intention But

Mara:

Okay, this might be too much of a stretch, but when you said reclaiming names, like I had definitely talked about this song as being, um, Redefining, I think is the word I used, but I hadn't made this connection that at the end, this song is reclaiming pet names, but names. And the first two songs have names in them, like Ophelia Elizabeth Taylor,

Micah Vandegrift:

you are right

Mara:

which. The Ophelia one definitely makes sense because it's about reclaiming, re rewriting the fate you know, rewriting her story. I don't know how Elizabeth Taylor would fit in there, but that's a cool, symmetry perhaps.

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah And then they are like Names in the lights right big names that we revere and know and have gravitas and history and names like lovely and sweetheart and honey are close and small and intimate and whispered rather than shouted so there's An interplay there too

Mara:

Well, yeah, so there's this focus at the beginning on the big like fame and stardom and reputations. And then at the end a focus on intimacy. Which I think fits well with what I see as the narrative arc all give us a rating for this one.

Micah Vandegrift:

I'll give this a four Yeah I liked it Would listen again expect to hear it out at the grocery store in a couple years or in a movie soundtrack at some point

Mara:

So I just found myself wondering if reclaiming could be a theme like a dominant theme for the whole album in a way musically you know she's doing all of this interpolation or borderline interpolation I just don't know quite exactly what that is except for it's just like it's not sampling but it's you know nods to other songs and to genres and like decades eras of music and there are all kinds of references lyrically to other performers as well So I wonder if there's a sense where she's trying to reclaim the life of a performer

Micah Vandegrift:

Hmm

Mara:

a much bigger way than just this showgirl or even Taylor Swift you know but it's like all performers so a lot of the artists that she nods to also had their own struggles with record labels you know not getting the

Micah Vandegrift:

Mm

Mara:

and like all of those kinds of things and then just musical artists of course you know we have Elizabeth Taylor and then she even has Ophelia as a fictional character maybe not a performer but still there's something there about and and they're not all female either cause I'd wanna say well it's about reclaiming female narratives which I think is a big part of it especially in canceled because you hear it with this like witch hunt idea and that the things that Her her friends that are canceled are getting canceled for

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

are female crimes that are not crimes for men Like girl

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

too close to the

Micah Vandegrift:

yeah Right

Mara:

so I don't know maybe that's something to keep in mind as we listen to the final track Is there confirmation for that idea

Micah Vandegrift:

Hmm

Mara:

a way that she's reclaiming these genres pop music or I'm not sure what the reclaiming would be accomplishing in a musical sense

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah I think if we generalize way out like the reclamation is art for art's sake or art for the purpose of creating or art as an expressive practice you know a subjective expressive practice so she can do whatever genre she wants and piece it together in whatever way she wants be a showgirl or be a person who is an author but not a narrator I think there's a lot we could say about The album musically lyrically as a cultural artifact that does things for the state of entertainment and art now

Mara:

Okay so One of the themes that I identify through the album that I hear confirmed in the last song and in these last few songs is I see the showgirl going from performance focused people pleaser I just want them to love me you like She's so excited to get discovered in a feet of Ophelia Elizabeth Taylor She's worried about the backlash you know and she wants her lovers to stay and you know she wants everyone to like her And Alite she's trying to be okay with it And then father figure obviously it's like she realizes but won't go into that one

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

but eldest daughter she's basically saying like I'm a people pleaser And this has made life complicated for me And then in Ruin the Friendship very much about rules and following the rules and

Micah Vandegrift:

Mm-hmm Mm-hmm

Mara:

rules by kissing someone who has a boyfriend I mean a girlfriend and then actually romantically starts breaking the rules but it's kind of ugh so I guess the rules part came up because you were talking about wow she can do any genre she wants and she can mix and match and do lyrics that fit or don't fit you know like who's to say what the rules are for art And like the whole point is that there aren't rules

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

in art which also ties back to my Substack article we did on the podcast for the last episode which

Micah Vandegrift:

Mm-hmm

Mara:

you know who gets to decide what makes great art Well similar question Who gets to decide what the rules are

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

and then the other piece of that being when we make art this is also something I struggle with my with my writing We have to have an awareness of your audience If you want anyone to read it or listen to it or buy it

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

if you become too focused on that it loses the soul Not only will it you because you're constantly trying to people please for you know people you don't even meet But it it sort of loses this authenticity which comes from play And so it's this sense of playfulness that I think that Banjo really confirms in that song that like she's having so much fun on that song and even in wood in a lot of ways but I really like that idea of like reclaiming the the soul of art as a place of freedom and play where the journey of creating matters much more than the reception And that's the only way to survive as an artist whether you're at my level where hardly anyone knows who you are or at Taylor Swift level where every single person on the planet practically has heard of her

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

if you're in it for the outcome you're doomed Like Ophelia you end up drowning in Can't please everyone but you can enjoy the journey

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah I'm glad you I'm glad you went to authenticity and art is a theme that we both have talked about many times and studied in school And I tend to think about that more than I want to admit for all kinds of art that I take in because I'm always looking for I want to Consume culture that that is authentic And if it feels inauthentic then I opt out I choose not to I spend time on other things you know

Mara:

okay so I have to ask though when we say authentic art or that something or feels authentic what does that even mean I guess we could talk about it from a creator perspective as like what is the experience or the focus the mindset And then also from the reception side you know because we can't know what the creator's mindset was like what comes to mind for you when you think of would make something authentic versus inauthentic

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah it's hard for me to think about it without going way back into my academic work where you know I was studying like post-punk music scenes And so authenticity in that sense was you had to be Of that place of the music participating in the community you know seen and known together with the people that were not just the people who listen to your music but your friends and your peers and you know living community together that's where that sense of authenticity came from you can fake that It's often found out if you do

Mara:

So this is still very very abstract but I think when I think of authenticity it's like authentic art is it just comes out of you you know it's it's the the truth bleeding in my genre and my medium onto the page

Micah Vandegrift:

Hmm

Mara:

it's like saying doing making the truest thing that you can make and I think maybe the opposite there for me is whatever that would be versus When it's performative it's 100 focused on trying to a certain response a certain positive response from an audience And it's not that there's anything Inherently bad about that either though because like Taylor among other things is a fantastic performer and that in itself is an art So it's not that performance is bad either So I I get really tangled up when I start to think about this like what is the difference between really soulful authentic art and not

Micah Vandegrift:

I think it's harder to pin down now in the age of mass media or whatever we wanna call what we're living through because for me it is about connection to membership in participation of a community for Taylor Swift Her community is nowhere near mine Right And so when I hear her music or think about this album it feels authentic because it comes from where she is which is different from me but the guy around the street here in Raleigh North Carolina that plays old time fiddle on the back porch that feels authentic in a different way because I'm in Raleigh North Carolina walking around my neighborhood and makes sense for where it is So it's really hard to pin down I'd say now harder now than ever before in time I want to ascribe authentic qualities to things more because I crave it from art from artists

Mara:

Well I think we all crave authenticity in this world of Filters and highlight reels And now ai you know

Micah Vandegrift:

Mm

Mara:

and more we're craving something that feels real and human but what I was thinking you know you're talking about community and I was thinking relationship that

Micah Vandegrift:

Hmm

Mara:

there's there are different kinds of performance Like there's I just taught a workshop yesterday at Riley Taylor Swift And there's a sense of performance Like I have a teacher persona it's me but it's a certain part of me that overlaps with other parts but it's more extroverted and you know even right now like this is part of a persona you know and it doesn't feel inauthentic But it is a performance But the difference maybe between the way I feel right now or the way I feel teaching a workshop where it does still feel very much like me and this there's sort of an icky performance where I get sort of frantic of like well what am I gonna do What are they gonna like And if I do it this way they might not like it And if I like maybe maybe you know social media used to be like this and still can be like well if I do it this way maybe it'll get more reach but if I do it this way you know and there's like this sense of scarcity versus a sense of abundance of like wanting to share

Micah Vandegrift:

Hmm

Mara:

and performance becomes maybe part of how you best share it

Micah Vandegrift:

Mm-hmm

Mara:

this like false act Like maybe the word performance is where I'm getting stuck That it's it's really like two concepts that get melted into one in a problematic way but there's like this like I know this is not me but I'm gonna do it because I think that's what they want You know which call comes back to people pleasing right Like there's a

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

performance versus a joyful sharing performance

Micah Vandegrift:

yeah

Mara:

should probably listen to the last song

Micah Vandegrift:

We should

Mara:

okay So let's listen to the life of a showgirl and we can listen for What that might confirm or disprove about our theories as far as the arc of the album and this focus on performance and authenticity

Micah Vandegrift:

Sounds good So life of a Showgirl this I'm thinking of it like a movie again but this sounds like the credit sequence you know like the we're we're done with the story And I'm thinking of kids movies right Where the where the credits are rolling but the characters are still dancing around the credits you know and and being funny and playful and reminding us of parts from the movie either with a you know a prop they bring in or something like that's that's what this song felt like for me It's also interesting to me that this was the only song on the album that features another performer right I wonder why Sabrina Carpenter Why tying together these two showgirls of our time in the spotlight and singing this song particularly

Mara:

so

Micah Vandegrift:

Good

Mara:

some just facts that you wouldn't know not having been following all this stuff is that Sabrina had opened for Taylor on The air is tour or at least part of it or the most recent part of it And so that recording at the end is actually from Maybe it's the last concert I'm not sure and then Taylor has said something like I wanted to have Sabrina on this track because like the quintessential showgirl who has this Like she's soft and tough in all the right places and you know has this sense of humor and you know sort of epitomizes all the things that Taylor was thinking of when she thinks of a a showgirl today But there's also a sense because Sabrina's younger and also much shorter than

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

It's almost comical how giant Taylor Swift seems in comparison to petite little Sabrina But this sense of ushering in the next generation And friendship is one of the like sub motifs that I noticed in this album that's like obviously missing at the beginning

Micah Vandegrift:

Mm-hmm

Mara:

in cancel she talks about having friends finally

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah With the same scars right Yeah

Mara:

Yeah And then in this last song there's finally an not that there needed to be but you know there is a another person very much with her not only in life but in

Micah Vandegrift:

Mm-hmm Mm-hmm

Mara:

I think you hear it in Elizabeth Taylor in particular that she feels very isolated As a performer it's like

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

on stage in front of hundreds of thousands of people but she's all alone in the spotlight and at the end of the day she's alone because all her lovers leave And the guys don't stay till morning and and all that But at the end of the abo she has her honey who does stay till the morning and she has another performer who's on stage with her like sharing the spotlight So there's a generosity from her of sharing the spotlight but also sense of companionship and like sharing the burden in a sense

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah one of the lyrics that captured me was pain hidden by the lipstick and lace wouldn't have it any other way And it's an interesting like If this is the life of a showgirl and now we the listener the reader right at the end of the album have the full understanding of what it is and our two narrators now say you now see the truth of what our our life What the yeah what the The the role that we inhabit actually is and we wouldn't have it any other way And we invite you listener reader to participate in consume the culture of the showgirl knowing the truth and I like that it is a yeah it feels like a celebratory song you know musically But still with a you know notes of melancholy this this is the life of a showgirl Enjoy it

Mara:

Including the pain

Micah Vandegrift:

including the pain Right

Mara:

And so also in that last chorus Before those lines she says I'm married to the hustle which

Micah Vandegrift:

Mm-hmm

Mara:

important for the whole album where she's been searching for a lover you know and talking about proposals and it seems like she found a human get married to But in this last song she says that might be true but I'm married not just married to The fame or married to my art which are probably also true but married to the

Micah Vandegrift:

Mm-hmm

Mara:

like the hustle is a great word there because it encompasses the work ethic that this takes and even the sort of conniving bits that you get in father figure that need to reinvent yourself and and the struggle To be authentic while also performing and to reveal yourself to your fans but not too much of yourself so that you make yourself too vulnerable because you really are just a human And that followed up with and I wouldn't have it any other way that's what tells us this is a happy ending it's not happily ever after in a fairytale sense but it is a more authentic ending which is to terms with the bad parts of the life that you've chosen and choosing recommit to that life each day which is something she writes about in one of the poems that Came I guess in the vinyl editions but they're available online now She has four or five poems that people say serve as kind of a a prologue So if this is the epilogue then there's also a prologue in written form

Micah Vandegrift:

Fascinating

Mara:

Yeah So what do you rate this song

Micah Vandegrift:

Um I'll give it a four four I don't think I have any fives

Mara:

um Alite might have been a five

Micah Vandegrift:

It might have been yeah Yeah That's that's one still stands out to me Yeah so yeah I'd say this was a good song Interesting Musically less interesting to me than some of the others but it

Mara:

show bridge which is

Micah Vandegrift:

yeah

Mara:

of music for sure

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

interesting yeah

Micah Vandegrift:

I give it a four

Mara:

Nice so album as a whole maybe the same basis for rating what would you give the album

Micah Vandegrift:

So I would give the the album overall a three

Mara:

as

Micah Vandegrift:

Uh,

Mara:

would choose to listen to it again

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah so something I'm doing right now I'm trying to get back to creating my own music So I'm finding snippets of parts of other songs that are like that gives me an idea for something to do myself And there's some of that in here so I wouldn't want to go back and mine the musical nuggets that seems exciting to me probably won't be in rotation Other than that I would recommend it to other people my niece is a big fan already so now I feel like I could talk to her about it and have a good conversation and that would be fun I'm still more excited for 10 years from now Taylor or going backwards in her catalog and listening to folklore or um evermore Is that the other one those two to see how they how they feel how they compare

Mara:

Awesome Okay last question about the album So my whole journey here into the life of a showgirl began with people saying the album was terrible and shallow and and all the different kinds of insults that were getting hurled around about it And that's what made me think I'm gonna get my own opinion And now here we are So you were to hear someone now saying oh that new album is so bad In whatever ways would your response be at this point

Micah Vandegrift:

If someone said The life of a showgirl is not worth the bits and bites it's delivered on I would engage them in a friendly as a librarian I would call this a reference interview you know, like pulling out like Why where where did you get that idea from And then I would introduce them to some of the musical themes stuff that I heard that I enjoyed or if you listen to this song this way I think you might like it in a way you didn't think you would Or maybe you heard the first song and so you assume the entire album sounds like that And so you've written it all off already So I would Start with a like how did you get that idea And then I would really quickly go into my comfort zone and say let's talk about the music a little bit Can I play a part for you or You know you can hate Taylor Swift in her music Listen to this baseline in this one part and the second verse of the you know whatever that's incredible And we can appreciate that even if you throw away the rest of the album So that that's what I like doing with all kinds of music these days is I was doing the same thing with my boys last night playing parts of songs that I think are intriguing musically and saying what does that make you feel And so that's what I would that's how I would I don't know if I could argue for Taylor as an artist just not knowing enough of her work I love to let you argue for the lyrical content and approaching it in a really different way I think that's that I love that That's always intriguing For me it would be a musical argument

Mara:

Very cool I love just the question of what does it make you feel and my personal theory is that half of the negative commentary is Subconsciously prompted by people feeling uncomfortable when that's exactly what the album is trying to do in my opinion

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

people don't like that

Micah Vandegrift:

Yep that's true

Mara:

But getting comfortable with discomfort is an important skill in life You know I was uncomfortable too at the beginning but I think that's interesting You know I wanna figure out why

Micah Vandegrift:

Mm-hmm

Mara:

than why I just don't like it

Micah Vandegrift:

Yeah

Mara:

And I might decide I don't like it in the end but I still wanna know why I don't like it Um well I really appreciate you taking the time to come on I love getting an outside perspective and with that real attention to the music So I've really enjoyed this I've loved where the conversation has gone Tell us where listeners can find you

Micah Vandegrift:

uh not very widely on social media I have a website Micah Vander griff.github.io If you are curious about the intricacies of EU science policy or what it was like to be deep in librarianship You can go and look there other than that I am in Raleigh North Carolina You could find me on the streets

Mara:

should we put your address on the show notes

Micah Vandegrift:

Please don't

Mara:

Come here the guy down the street playing the violin Right Playing the fiddle

Micah Vandegrift:

That's right And and me pretending to play mandolin on the front porch here at my house Yeah

Mara:

All right Well Again we appreciate you taking the time and sharing your wisdom

Micah Vandegrift:

Same here

Mara:

All right take care and me posted if you listen to any more Taylor Swift

That's it for today's episode. If you made it all the way to the end here. Thanks for sticking with us. I hope you enjoyed it. even though Micah was not ultimately convinced of this album's brilliance, or at least not convinced to want to listen to it very much, I found our discussion of authenticity and performance really meaningful. I'm gonna keep pondering that idea that performance can come from a place of abundance and wanting to share or from a place of. People pleasing and scarcity. It was really helpful for me to name that for myself, and if you are also a creator of some kind, I hope that it will be helpful for you as well. We've got two more bonus episodes coming. Coming next week, so Be sure to come back on Monday when I'm gonna be releasing my analysis of the poems that form a prologue for the album. and especially if you're listening to this close to when it came out. I hope you enjoy the new Taylor Swift documentary. Take care. And that is it for today's lesson. If you're loving these deep dives. Make sure to follow the podcast or come join the discussion on social media. My links are in the show notes. I'd love to hear your questions, comments, and insights. Class is always about bringing you into the conversation, helping you to do your own thinking and come to your own conclusions, so I'd love to see you involved. Until next time, class dismissed.