Episode 32 - Times Cricket Journalist, Elizabeth Ammon

Welcome back to the Sunday Service with Church and Vickers - we hope you’ve all had a peaceful cricketing week.

This week, Mark and Hector are joined by someone who can tell you everything you need to know about the game.

Having begun her career in the civil service, straight out of university, she ended up making a career switch to sports journalism after becoming a third voice with the BBC. 

Now a cricket reporter at the Times and Sunday Times, she is one of the most trusted voices in the game.

Elizabeth Ammon joined us earlier in the week to discuss her fascinating career, the changing world of journalism, the England Men’s Test side, and - of course - the imminent Women’s T20 World Cup.

Also on the episode, Church and Vickers continue their hard-hitting, segment; "What cricket sound is this?" - and Church delivers a sermon with a full report from the Parish’s bank holiday game against “The Cheating Vicars”.

A huge thank you to Elizabeth Ammon for coming on this week's show and taking us through the world of cricket. We look forward to catching up and reading her works as the summer progresses.

Another big thank you goes to our friends at Newbery Cricket, who are offering up their award-winning SPS bat for this month's competition giveaway. You can read all about it via the following link: https://www.wisden.com/cricket-features/the-bat-test-2026

You can also check out the premium equipment that Newbery has to offer here

If you have liked this episode of Sunday Service, please make sure to rate and review us, and share us on social media platforms.

Make sure to get in touch, we want to hear your cricketing thoughts and guest suggestions:

Email us at: sundayservice.pod@yahoo.com

‘X’ - sundayservice22

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello everyone and thank you for joining us again on the Sunday service with Church and Vickers. The heat wave continues, the T20 continues, test cricket is underway, and the IPO is reaching its conclusions. So much happening in the world of cricket, and the old man has been trying to keep across it all.

SPEAKER_05 0:20

Well, I have had to, but can I be honest with you, I've given up now because I can't keep up with it. I'm far too old to keep across all this cricket. But one thing I would say, like the weather, all the cricket is hot, hot, hot.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Sunday service with church and teachers. Well, we are back. I am covered in Factor 50, rehydrating and attempting to keep across all the cricket that is taking place around the world, but it is not easy, and I'm very excited that England get their test summer started next week against New Zealand, who warmed up with a test match against Ireland. And I must say they were looking good this week in Caribbean conditions. Church, what has been happening for you in the world of cricket?

SPEAKER_05 1:15

Well, Hector, where to start? Where to start? Let's start at Lord's, where I watched Sam Curran play one of the best T20 innings you could ever wish to see on Sunday. And then I saw Ryan Higgins throw his bat over his head and onto his stumps, which was remarkable, and I don't think he could ever do that again if he tried. Then I saw Rihanna McDonnell Gay take six for 11, the best figures ever in the vitality blast in this country in women's domestic cricket, including being on a hat-trick three times. As that was happening, Mr. Ceravanchi nearly scored the quickest IPL 100 age 15, or any age for that matter. Mr. McCullum has been telling us all there's nothing to worry about. Just a little bit on that. I don't really care what McCullum says now. I couldn't care less as long as they win. If they win, he can say whatever he likes. He can say that the the earth is flat, and we'll all believe him, as long as England start winning test cricket again. I've been in the searing heat of the utility bowl, I've had an overheating car, and we have recorded the hottest temperature ever. Ever. And I mean in May. We've been hotter than the Bahamas, and the country has seemingly come to a grinding halt. Nothing has worked because everything has just been too hot. Hector, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. Everything is too hot. Anyway, what's on today's show, please?

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Well, Church has his cricketing sermon, which has a full report of the Parish 11's bank holiday game against those cheating vicars. We have the latest edition of our hard-hitting feature. What cricket sound is this? And our guest today is a journalist who can tell you everything that's happening in the world of cricket, especially in this country before it has even happened.

SPEAKER_05 3:07

And thanks to our friends at Newbury Cricket, we have our competition prize where you can win one of their magnificent SPS cricket bats. And once again, it is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful piece of willow. And don't forget you can get in touch with us. Just email sundayservice.pod at yahoo.com or tweet at Sundayservice22.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Lots to get through, so let's get cracking with the Sunday service.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Hi, Matt Fisher, Surrey and England. Um, you're listening to the Sunday service with church and vicars.

SPEAKER_05 3:46

Good morning, I trust your cricketing week has involved factor 50 sunblock and constant calls to the pavilion for water and fresh pairs of batting gloves. It's been a hugely busy week in the parish. Monday dawned early, as it so often does, and it was a nervous morning ahead of the bank holiday game against the cheating Vickers. I made my way to the parish ground with young Mr. Vickers, and to quell our nerves, we decided to cut the outfill one last time. The ladies of the Women's Institute arrived and started setting up in the pavilion. Sensibly they kept having drinks breaks due to the heat, although I was slightly concerned their drink of choice seemed to be tonics and gin. And by midday, Mrs. Bartholomew and Mrs. Watts were giving their renditions of some of the numbers from the Smash West End musical Kinky Boots. I was slightly concerned when they both stood on the tables to bout out Not My Father's Son, just as the cheating vicars arrived. I made my way to our dressing room to deliver a rousing speech to the parish 11, only to find our opening bowler Reg fast asleep in the corner, having had apparently a rather heavy night in the Badgers Googly. So my churchillion called to arms was accompanied by Reg's snoring and flatulence, and I felt some of my motivational and inspirational words were lost. Anyway, thankfully we won the toss and decided to bat because Reg was still fast asleep. Now, as I told you last week, we had acquisitioned Alan the Posty and Stu the Gardener from our neighbourhood parish of Stiffly on the Knoll, and Stu did not let us down, opening the batting with Sexy Rex. He struck a marvellous entry and alongside Rex put on 155 for the first wicket, of which Sexy Rex made one. It was a lovely single for Rex off the inside edge to fine leg, and Stu deposited cheating vicars all around the parish. Rex was then out for one, but Stu continued to stroke the cheating vicars who did not look best pleased, and words such as ringer were heard to be uttered. We posted a very competitive 265 of our 40 overs, with Stu finishing 185 not out and receiving a standing ovation upon his return to the pavilion. Then it was time for the WIT, which was a splendid fair and seemed to cheer the cheating vicars up. And then of course we retreated to the WI's interpretation of the Smash West End musical Starlight Express. All did not start well because the combination of heat and the tonics and gin caused Mrs. Watts and Mrs. Jackson to roll a skate off down the parish lane in the wrong direction while singing quite beautifully, I must add, he whistled at me. Sadly, they never returned and were found happily sleeping in a hedge later that evening. But the rest of the performance was magnificent and ended with a triumphant finale of Mrs. Slight and Mrs. Bracken launching up a ramp and flying across the parish pond with the wind in their hair while singing the light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately, they both landed with their summer dresses over their heads, and it was remarked upon it did seem rather hot to be wearing longjongs. The cheating Vickers run chase began, and thankfully, Reg had woken up and proceeded to bolt a very fast spell down the hill. He picked up two early wickets, but then unfortunately injured himself when he dived headfirst at fine leg and had a nasty collision with a passing dog walker's border collie. Both Reg and the Collie were fine, but Reg decided he was safer in the Badgers Googly and wandered off to the pub. Alan the Postie's leg breaks were introduced and the cheating vickers were bamboozled. Sadly, with sexy wrecks behind the stumps, a number of chances were missed, and he certainly lived up to his nickname of Irongloves. But the Cheating Vickers kept losing wickets and were eventually all out for 120, and victory was ours. It was a marvellous day, and the evening was spent happily in the Badgers Googly discussing cricket, musicals, and the cheating of the Vickers. Tuesday was a day of parish visits and stats, and then I was back to the Ovalshire for some more T20 blast action between the Surreyshire women and the Durhamshire women. Now, my cricketing friends, the T20 has got off to a rip-roaring start, and the games are coming thick and fast. We've already seen some excellent cricket and the weather has certainly helped. And the one thing I have noticed this year is the Grounds Disc Jockeys are playing an awful lot of mashed-up tunes in between overs. By that I mean a combination of a couple of hit singles cleverly put together to an upbeat feel. And interestingly, I am yet to hear Sweet Caroline. Thursday, I reread some of the stats of the 2003-2004 seasons in the T20 from the Good Book, and Friday was more T20 at the Utility Bowl in Hampshire Shire. And this morning I am talking to you from the Oval Shire because guess what? We have more T20 today. It never stops, and I must admit the calm of the parish and young Mr Vickers leaving the service this morning is a rather lovely thought. So a very busy week in the parish, and I did receive a lovely letter from the Cheating Vickers saying what a marvellous day they'd had, and that Stew from fiddling on the knoll has remarkably been ordained this week and is now going to play the rest of the season for them. I'm delighted for him. So my cricketing friends, have a splendid week and remember to rehydrate all the time, otherwise cramp can set in. Until next week, bat well everyone. Bat very, very well.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

So now it is time for this week's question, and the question is, as always, what cricket sound is this? Thank you, boys.

SPEAKER_05 10:59

Thank you, mate. Alright, mate, safe journey home. Thank you, Ben.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

If you think you know, email sundayservice.pod at yahoo.com or tweet at Sundayservice22.

SPEAKER_06 11:12

This is Cameron Steele, and you are listening to the Sunday service with church and vicars.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Now it's time for our cricketing guest. Elizabeth Ammon has been with the Times and the Sunday Times for over 10 years now and can tell you everything you need to know about the beautiful game. Having begun her career in the civil service straight out of university, she ended up making a career switch after becoming a third voice with the BBC. Now a cricket reporter at the Times, she is one of the most trusted voices in the game. Elizabeth joined us earlier in the week to discuss her fascinating career, the changing world of journalism, the England men test team, and of course the eminent Women's World Cup. I started by asking her how she was and how her start to the season had been.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

It's actually been glorious, hasn't it? Because we've had mostly really lovely weather. April was really nice, uh uncharacteristically nice actually. And um it's always busy, but we're getting into the absolutely mad period now because we start the test matches and the Women's World Cup. So there's a two-month period now where I think I'll wake up and not know what city I'm in. Um Lizzie, just give everybody an idea.

SPEAKER_05 12:23

We'll we'll go back to how it all started, but but winters for you as well. How how how are you how do you spend your winters? Because you're still busy during the winter, aren't you? But how how do you spend your your sort of winter months away from from the summer?

SPEAKER_03 12:38

I spend a lot of time in my flat. But uh, I mean, as you say, it's always still busy because cricket actually never stops, does it? Um you can switch on the telly at any time of day or night and someone's playing cricket. Uh so there's always plenty to get stuck into. There's always quite a lot of um off-pitch news, you know, kind of the business of cricket, the business, whatever the ECB are up to. Um, you know, this winter there was the 100 auction, there was obviously the ashes, uh, which we we gloss over. Um, uh, and last um November, October, maybe there was a Women's World Cup. So there's always something to get my teeth into. So, you know, my friends always say to me, Uh you haven't got a proper job. What do you do for the rest of the year? And I'm not gonna I mean it's not a proper job, clearly, but um, but uh uh there is cricket's 12 months a year, isn't it? There's always something happening somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

So how did you get into it? Was that always the goal to work in journalism or just sports in general?

SPEAKER_03 13:35

Oh, good grief, no, absolutely not. I didn't even know women could be sports journalists. I didn't even know it was a job, actually. I didn't even know it was a thing. Um I I uh I mean I've always been into cricket, well, sort of. I mean I basically started uh by being a scorer and I didn't even like cricket. You just got a nice crisp fibre at the end of the day, which I could then take down to HMV or Virgin Megastore and buy a CD. But um I no, I was I worked in government, I worked in uh uh after I finished university, I got onto the civil service fast stream, uh, worked in government, did policy and intelligence uh uh uh stuff like that for 20 years. Um but sort of towards the back end of my government career, um I was approached to I started, it was around the time that Twitter started and people started blogging, and I just sort of started blogging and tweeting. Um, because I'd been um uh around and about cricket as a scorer and a junior coach and you know on the Middlesex cricket board and this, that, and the other. Um started blogging, started tweeting, and the BBC approached me actually to do some third voice commentary because uh at the time I think there were maybe two women, Alison Mitchell, Ellie Oldroid, and not many others, were there, Churchy? Um and uh so they asked me to do some third voice commentary. So I thought, well, that's um interesting. Uh I won't ever be a millionaire from it, will I? But uh I um so I sort of dropped down my hours in the civil service and started doing that and doing a bit of freelance writing for The Guardian and The Mirror and various others, and then um the Times approached me just as I was approaching my 40th birthday, which is going to give away how old I am, which I shouldn't have done, should I? Um uh and offered me a job. Um uh so I made the really rather stupid decision uh in some ways of leaving a very safe job in the civil service and government, you know, with a very safe job and a very nice pension and all of that, to go into the very unsafe world of journalism. Um, but I did think at the time, I thought uh if I don't do this, I will regret it. Um and I'd also done nearly 20 years in the civil service, and I did wonder whether I could do another 20 years sitting in a windless office in Whitehall, so that's what I did. Yeah, all very I mean a complete changing career and all terribly random.

SPEAKER_05 16:02

Well, I I think you're doing yourself down because I remember when all of a sudden so Twitter when it first started, then all of a sudden people started twigging uh Twitter's quite good, and then there was this leg side Lizzie who kept popping up on my whatever you call it timeline with some very good points and um yeah, so some really good points, and and and then it was a case of a lot of people started following you. Were you surprised? Were you surprised by that? Because because it all happened quite quickly, didn't it?

SPEAKER_03 16:39

It did happen very quickly. I was a very early adopter of Twitter because um I had a baby in 2006. I had a baby just around about the time we were having that Adelaide test, Churchy. Right oh the one that we're all still in therapy for. Um and so I had a lot of time on my hands, um, because I had a baby that was actually a pretty spectacular baby that slept for 20 hours a day, bless him. Um I occasionally had to keep prodding him to just make sure he was still alive. He ate and he slept, and that's pretty much all he did for well, still now, 19 years later. Um and uh uh so I had a lot of time on my hands. So and I really enjoyed Twitter. It felt then incredibly collaborative. There was a lovely community. There was a you know, it was uh it was lovely actually, wasn't it? You know, I met all sorts of cricket fans from all different walks of life, all county fans and you know from around the world, and it was lovely. And I think because I was an early adopter um and I wasn't mainstream as it were, I think a lot of people thought, oh, this is quite different, you know, and uh and clearly she knows a bit, and I you know, I don't like you know, no one likes to big their own trumpet, do they? But um uh I you know I know I know quite a lot, and I know quite a lot of people, and I've been around cricket a long time, and um so uh yeah, that it was lovely, and and so I I think I then and because I was a little bit different, I was you know, a woman who hadn't played. I mean, when I grew up in Yorkshire, that wasn't you I didn't even know women could play cricket. In Yorkshire, the women did the scoring and made the tease and ran the raffle, you know, that's the tomboler. That's that's what you did on a Saturday. You went and buttered sandwiches, or you stuck dots in a book, or you ran the tomboler. So um I I you know I never played really. I mean, I played a bit silly stuff, but not really. Um, but yeah, so it was great, and that's kind of how I started, and then got a bit of a reputation, did you know, a load more different things, and then got offered a job at the times, and here we are 10 years later.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Is that still your favourite form of cricket content then? Because I guess there's so many spaces, and as you say, you've worked in broadcasting. Obviously, you write loads and you help with editing as well.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Is Twitter your favourite place to sort of uh I mean not anymore, it's not anymore. It's a very different place. Um uh and I mean I do still love social media. I know a lot of people don't anymore and have come off it and find it awful. I do still love it. I like the interaction. I'm very much I I I get kind of a visceral reaction to people giving me their opinion, and then you there's no way for you to go back to them. You know, I I I hear a lot of men giving me their opinions, and then I and so I do like social media. I mean, you have to wade through quite a lot of garbage, don't you? But it is a still a place where there's a nice little community. I I mean I'm finding now I have to use different ones for different audiences, so I you know, there's it's obviously video, short form clips, all of that. I I'm getting better at it. I wasn't great at it, but I'm getting better at it. Um, but I I just like the sort of back and forth really, and a bit of banter and you know, this, that, and the other. So uh I do still like it. Obviously, I write, I mean, I'm not one of the world's beautiful writers, I'm not John Houghton, I'm not Athers, you know, etc. etc. I'm that's not really, you know, I'm not a beautiful uh a crafter of beautiful words. Um but uh I, you know, I I like to write in a way that I think is straightforward. Um I know when I like I read stuff, I like to know in the first two or three paragraphs what it is you're telling me. What are you telling me? Um and I sort of like to write like that, and that's my job at the uh the times, really. Obviously, at the times we have we're incredibly lucky. We have Michael Aston, we have Steve James with all his vast knowledge of batting technique, Athers is Athers, and Simon Wild, the Sunday Times correspondent, is great and a lovely writer. So my job is really more the nuts and bolts of journalism, which is the press conferences, the news. That you know, um I do interviews and I do features, but uh less my opinion. I mean, who wants the world according to Lizzie? No one wants the world according to Lizzie.

SPEAKER_05 21:19

Again, I I think I I I personally think that what you're doing at the times uh you've hit your sweet spot with that. Uh because you do I'll be honest with you, you do stuff that I I couldn't do anymore, which we which is that newsy press conference. But you but for you, I I think it's perfect, the perfect place for you to be. Um just on that, because we'll we'll we'll move on to the women's T twenty World Cup in a moment. Ashes everything that's happened since then, Mr. McCullum's still in charge. Nothing's really changed. I know you are off to see Mr. McCullum on Friday. Uh press-wise. What what are your thoughts going into this summer? From a personal point of view, I hope to God it works for them because if it doesn't, I I I I don't see where it goes. Um what what are your thoughts on it? And what what do you think the general feel is sort of press-wise going into into this New Zealand series?

SPEAKER_03 22:32

I mean, I think the general feeling amongst the press is they're incredibly lucky if they're all being that job. Um in football, they wouldn't be. Um but I mean, my view is always you don't get rid of people unless you're absolutely sure you've got something better. And I don't know that there necessarily was a whole bunch of people chomping at the bit to do it's a very well-paid job, but it's intense and it's 10 months away, you know. So I do get why they decided to back him and all of that. I my concern is that there is a lot of relationship building to be done with the paying public. And my concern is always, Turchie, that the paying public are almost the last people we think about when it comes to any discussions. And I think people were livid about this ashes, and they weren't livid about the fact they lost. We've all watched a billion away ashes series when they've lost, you know, they lose, that's fine. It was the nature, it was the fact that the planning was so bad, it was the fact that they were a bit blasé about the whole thing. I don't know if selection was great, you know, then pictures and the drinking, and I don't mind young men drinking, do what you like, but you know, it all comes together to go. Do these people really care? Or have they just not grasped that people have spent thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds to go and watch them? People pay their TNT sky subscriptions, they invest their middle of the night to these, you know. Um, so there is some relationship building to be done because uh, you know, the the vibes I get from around club cricket, and I always try and gauge opinion not based on the cricket badges that you and I bump into all the time. It's the kind of people who are peripheral to cricket, who is not they're being all an end-all, but they take, you know, but they love it, but and then they were really like fed up, fed up at the end of the ashes. Like that was absolutely a missed opportunity, and it doesn't look like you've grasped that fact.

SPEAKER_05 24:29

Yeah, and final point for me on that before Hector moves on to the the Women's World T20. Do you think, because you've been to a lot of the championship staff at the start of the season, do you think that because there was a massive gap? There was a massive gap that developed between championship cricket and the England team. Do you think that's narrowed over the first seven rounds of championship cricket? Yes, they you know they picked Emilio Gay on form, um Ollie Robinson's back, but do you honestly believe that that gap has narrowed, or is it a case of wait and see?

SPEAKER_03 25:07

I do think that they that that one of the good things that came out of the Ashes review was that uh there was a real recognition, actually, we've got a good first-class structure. Why are we what is there any point to it? I mean, it's it doesn't make any money, so there has to be a point to it. Um, and the point to it is development of England players, and there has to be a reason for these 400 blows to be playing cricket. Um, and I think they did cotton onto that. I do think there's a sometimes people are a bit harsh. There is a very good scouting network, you know, that it's not that nobody takes any notice, it's just I think they got carried away with deciding what they wanted. Let's face it, for the last three years, all eggs were in the ashes basket. Everything was about we want this battery of fast bowlers, we need these players who are going to be aggressive and take it to the Aussies, and everyone else, never mind you, you're irrelevant. Um, and when that all went horribly wrong, then uh I I guess they go back to basics, which is that you know, county cricket is a it's the grounding, it's where these people learn. You know, it's so for example, it's it's so good that Bashir's bowling loads of overs. Like he just needs to bowl loads of overs. Sprin bowling is really hard, it's really, really hard. And he hasn't bowled enough overs, he just hadn't bowled enough overs to know how to manage different game situations and this, that, and the other. It's great, he's getting loads of overs at Derbyshire, England are backing him, and I like that. Um, so I think I think things have shifted. Um, I don't think that the directors of cricket love everything that England do, and they certainly don't love every decisions made about rules and regulations and injury subs and all of that. But yeah, I think things are shifting a bit.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Can I just ask in terms of the bridge building quickly that you're speaking about, is that the case of just win and then everything else is fine, or in terms of their image, do they have to make a conscious effort to maybe just present themselves a bit better across the summer, or do they just have to win and then and then we'll be back to back to where we were?

SPEAKER_03 27:19

Well, they've got to win. I mean, they've absolutely got to win. Um, I think people are, you know, a bit last year's India series was amazing. I mean, it was an incredible series, but they should have won it. Um, and uh uh yeah, and then the Ashes obviously, so they've got to win. It's a good summer for them to do that, um, because the winter's tough, they're going to South Africa, that won't be easy. Um, but I think it's more than that. I think they've uh they've got to show that they're engaged and that they're bothered, and that um I I think maybe the players need to show a bit of themselves um uh and you know the sort of passion, but also that they there's something going on between the ears. Um, and they get it, and they get that, you know, whilst it's great fun for the ball to fly to Rosed, sometimes don't do that. Um uh, you know, and some of them, you know, that's not all of them, you know. Jerry doesn't do that, does he? But um it I yeah, I think it's a combination of both, but fundamentally they've got to go out and win. I don't think it'll be that easy against New Zealand, I have to say, though, good side.

SPEAKER_05 28:27

No, I I I would actually say they're a better side than what England came up against in the ashes, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 28:35

Just just looking at the the Women's World T20 as well, like the the the women's game has gone through the roof. It's stratospheric now, it's gone professional. It's um unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

But in the small the smallest amount of time, I mean, let's face it, um 10, 12 years ago, they were starting from where men's cricket was a hundred years ago. Um so the amount of growth and the amount of money and the the change in the game in such a short space of time means that I do think we might be getting to a point where we're slightly leveled off. I mean, naturally it will, you know, it will because the rise was so steep, yeah. But it's great and it's um it's great because people know players. People, you know, the blokes of my cricket club can name women's cricketers. I don't think five years ago they would have been able to. Um, so uh that in itself is really good. Uh, this World Cup will be fascinating, fascinating to see where England are um in terms of you know, globally, um, to see just how much of an impact Charlotte Edwards has had, and she is a I think she was absolutely the right person to do it, and she is not messing around, you know. She's picking on form, she's done what the men have not done in the past, she really did use county performances as an indicator. Um, she's very clear on their fitness, she's very clear on their standards. She's also very clear that they have to um be able to engage with people who weren't previously engaged in cricket. Um, and that you have to show a human side there. It's not just about what you do with the bat and ball, you have to show a human side. Um, and she's quite clear on them being role models, and that that, you know, and the women are so good at selfies and autographs, you know, they are so good at that. Um, because I think they totally get that an eight-year-old girl on the boundary, you know, there'll be loads tonight at Chelms Ruth, it's half-term. There'll be loads. And she will have that girl will have a memory, probably not of what fours or sixes or what wickets they were, but how she felt at the match. And if that involves the women coming around the boundary and waving at them or signing an autograph, or you know, she gets a t-shirt or something. You know, that's the important thing for engaging the girls. Um, and the rest comes later, doesn't it? So uh it will be a fascinating World Cup, fascinating World Cup. It's really unfortunate it clashes with a football World Cup, really unfortunate. Um but it's great that they've been ambitious and they're putting the matches in big grounds. I think there will be some matches where the grounds are fairly empty because some of the games are quite hard to sell. Not the England games, I think the England games will be fine, Australia, India, Pakistan, etc. So some of the other games might be a bit tricky, but I I I admire the ambition.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

How are England looking from I know they've had that ODI series and now they're into their T20s? You you've been watching all of them. How how do they look to you in terms of form?

SPEAKER_03 31:41

Um they started the ODIs, and I was thinking, uh oh, this is really bad, this is really bad. They had a in Durham, the first ODI against New Zealand, they fielded like drains, they dropped every catch. But they actually that was uh that that was a bit of an aberration. In this T20 series against New Zealand, they've looked sharp, they've held every catch, they've looked athletic. Uh it's quite hard to tell New Zealand are in a slight disarray. Um but even without Nat Zivil Brunt who's injured, Danny White of Hodge who's been on maternity leave. Um they have, you know, that's two of their best players. Sophie missed one game with a tight quad. Um, so and they've been fantastic with the ball, particularly. Lindsay Smith is so good in the power play under the death. Um, it's it's great to see Alice Capsey coming into form. You know, she burst onto the scene when she was terribly, terribly young, and she had a bit of a dip in form, but she really she's fitter, she's looks like she's really got it. She's great at the top of the order. Um, and so I think they're looking good. The real test will come when they meet India, Australia, and South Africa, I have to say, are my ones to watch for this World Cup because they've got Shubman is Schmail, who's come back out of retirement, fast bowler, they've got Maris and Camp, they've got Dana Van Neerkirk, they they look a really strong outfit, South African.

SPEAKER_05 33:11

Can I just ask you as well? So the hundred, all the new investment, all the new money, that direction of travel, because my personal thought on it is it won't be a hundred competition for that long, it'll turn into a T20 global competition. It's not that so much. I want to ask about it. It's our domestic T20, which which I feel is fighting for its space. It's it's now fighting for its space. The impression I've got this year with it is the crowds, there's been some good crowds, but we're not getting the sell-outs that we used to get because there is so much cricket now. Not so much the direction of travel for the hundred, Lizzie, but what about our domestic T20? What happens to that? Because my I suppose my fear is that it almost turns into the equivalent of what we see now with the Metro Bank, that it is players that aren't going to get 100 gig who are now playing in that, and that's my fear for our domestic T20 now.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Yeah, it's really interesting, Churchy, because do you I was talking just you kind of some of the I hate to use it, smaller counties, um, you know, and Canterbury and New Road and Hove, they're all their ticket sales, despite being one fewer home game because of the way we restructured, their ticket sales are up on last year. But that's because they're trying to sell 5,000, not 30,000 at lots. And I my feeling is that the blast has morphed into because it's had to, a competition that is for people who love their counties, who love, have a sense of kind of wanting their county to win. You see, I feel in the hundred, and I might be being unfair, but I feel in the hundred, people are people that don't actually care who wins the game. They go and they have a good, you know, and I'm not saying it's not a good day out. It is a good day out. I think it's a good day out, but I don't think they care who wins. Whereas I think people who go to the blast do care who wins. And they're seeing their players who've come up through the county ranks, they're loyal county players. I think the players themselves are are more bothered about winning the blast than they are about their hundred because they're not emotionally invested into the hundred franchise. So it does mean, I think, that the blast has morphed more into something that is for county cricket lovers rather than the general public. Now that's not across the board, you know. I still think the over will get the afterwork crowd on Thursdays and you know this, that, and the other. But I do wonder if it's morphing into a competition that's more for grams that hold 6,000 and not 30,000. And we aren't going to get the caliber of overseas pairs. We simply aren't going to get them because there are so many franchise tournaments. You know, the blast is on, well, the RPL's not finished. Um, you know, people are playing BBL, then they come into the hundred, then they can go into this new Saudi one. There's the ILT 20. Then, you know, and and they get paid more money. So the biggest names are gonna pick and choose which ones they do. They're not gonna play every single one, or they'll be playing franchise cricket all 12 months a year. And the blast is not gonna be the one that they go to, it's just not the key. I mean, that's not to say that there aren't decent ABCs, just in subs at Hampshire, you know, that's a great, it was great, but it isn't that isn't what it is, and I wonder if the blast maybe needs to reposition itself. We are where we are, the hundred isn't going anywhere. As you say, I think it'll become a T20 tournament, but I think we basically the blast does need to reposition itself as it is what it is. Um, and given that the 100 is targeted on families and new audiences, I think the blast needs to position itself on people who are not new audience, you know, people who are who love cricket, who love their counties, who know what they're talking about, and the afterwork crowd. And I don't think we should be rude about the people who come after work and get drunk, they spend a lot of money on the bars. Let's not be rude about them. We need that. Uh so yeah, it's really difficult. But given that the hundred is here, it is here, it's not going anywhere. Um, the blast has to work out how to stay relevant, and I wonder if that's because it it needs to pitch to a different audience.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Yeah, yeah. Um, just in terms of journalism in general, obviously, you'll be covering the World Cup this summer. How different is it? Uh I don't know if you covered the World Cup 10 years ago, in terms of the content you have to produce. You spoke about digital journalism and social media videos. Do you have a whole content plan or is it mainly written word and then and a few videos on the side as well?

SPEAKER_03 37:53

I mean, it's mostly written word. Obviously, you know, the raison detra of the times is to try to subscribe. You know, we want people to subscribe to the times, and that is for our written journalism. But increasingly it's it's about trying to drive that through video, through podcasts, through uh a newsletter. Um and also I just find that actually people you get more credibility as a journalist if you're hitting all different platforms. So, you know, I I it it it's hard work, but you know, what you write on LinkedIn is very different to a 30-second video on Instagram or TikTok. What you write on Twitter is what is different to what you'd write in the Times, you know, the language you use. So you are sort of bouncing around being different people. But I I do have a content plan for the Women's World Cup. The unfortunate thing, I mean, it's for I'm very fortunate, but I am covering the men's test matches and the women's world cup at the same time. So um it it's bouncing around from that and uh and working out what audiences you've got for what different things and making sure that you keep on top of every all of that. There is um, I mean, there's a lot of content out there, there's a lot of content, and it's very, very hard to be different. And you know, I I sort of when I'm scrolling through, I think I've just seen that, I've seen those blokes talking about that, I've seen those blows talking about that, I've seen those blokes talking about that. And oh, here we go, it's three blokes around a microphone again. Um, but you know, it's I being different and standing out is one thing, but I think maybe I have just realized that I am what I am, I'm a middle-aged woman. I do this is what I do. I'm not trying to be a 19-year-old with viral YouTuber. I'm not that's not I'm not trying to be that. Um uh so yeah, I it it it journalism has changed enormously, uh, even in the 10 years I've been doing it. I mean, fundamentally, at the times, we still do the times, you know, with the times. Um, but that there are lots of different things. And covering a Women's World Cup, it will be really interesting. So obviously, the last Women's World Cup I covered in the grounds was 2017, which in itself was pretty seismic because there was obviously a full house at the final and this, that, and the other. But this will be a next step up because there'll be loads more people doing, you know, videoing round the side of the boundary, doing podcasts, doing this, that, and the other, um, live blogging and all of that, and just more people covering it. You know, I think I think I did a game in the 2017 World Cup, but I reckon there were two of us in the press box, maybe. Um, you know, um, so uh yeah, I I I I really like covering women's cricket now. I was saying this at Hope on on Friday, it was glorious. You know, there were six or seven of us there, all the major publications. Um and and it was it's a serious, you know, I cover, I try to cover women's cricket in the way that I would cover men's cricket, and try to be, and I think this is how we will know that women's cricket has made it, is that you can be as critical of women as you are of men if they are not very good. I think in the past we've sometimes been a bit patronizing. I get it, because you know they had all these different factors, but sometimes we'll be like, oh, didn't they all do well? Um, you know, and they are elite athletes, they're elite professional athletes. And if they don't do something well, then if a men's game, if a men's team got bowled out for 70, we would go for them. And I think the same, we have to just treat the women the same.

SPEAKER_05 41:47

Well, look, Lizzie, uh, I know you've got to get to Chalesford, so so we won't keep you any longer, but thank you. And as I say, you were an absolute trailblazer with with with the social media side of things, and I think, as I said, you know, what you're doing now with the times and and all the other bits and pieces, it's it's phenomenal. I don't know how you fit everything in, but thank you for giving us your time today.

SPEAKER_03 42:10

And um very welcome anytime.

SPEAKER_05 42:13

We'll no doubt see you across the summer, but thank you for your time. Thank you so much.

unknown 42:18

Bye.

SPEAKER_05 42:19

Well, fantastic to hear from Lizzie there. And you can, of course, follow her on X, as it's now known, X, at Legside Lizzie with her 66.8,000 followers.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

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SPEAKER_02 43:16

There are our friends at Newbery Cricket, and now it is competition time, and thanks to our friends at Newbury Cricket, we have a beautiful SPS bat to give away. And this week, Churchy, you've been thinking quite a bit about it, haven't you?

SPEAKER_05 43:30

I have as usual, so as everybody now knows, I've dreamt about it. I want it, I want to twiddle with it. In the hot conditions of recent days, I thought the SPS would have been perfect, absolutely perfect to twiddle like a fan to cool me down. Can you imagine that? It would have been a beautiful sight twiddling your SPS just to cool you down, because as I say, it is a beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful piece of willow. Now, that piece of willow can be yours, of course. All you have to do is answer this week's question. And if you get it right, your name goes in the hat. We pull a name out of the hat, and whichever name comes out, the hat wins the SPS. So last week's question. Surrey won the first ever T20 competition back in 2003. Which Surrey bowler took 4 for 11 in the final against Warwickshire? The answer was Hector.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Well, I had to check the uh answer sheet for this one, but Jimmy Ormond.

SPEAKER_05 44:30

It was the great Sir James Ormond. So this week's question. I like this week's question. It took a bit of research. The last time New Zealand played a test match at Lords, who was the concussion substitute for Jack Leach and made his test debut? That's the question. If you think you know the answer, you know what to do. Email Sundayservice.pod at yahoo.com or tweet Sundayservice22. And our friends at Newbury have released an official Sunday service discount code. You can use the discount code Sundayservice15 and get 15% off goods at www.newbury.co.uk, excluding Bispoke Rats. So why not treat yourself to some premium gear and quality willow?

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Right, that is stumps for this episode of the Sunday service with Church and Vickers. We will be back together next Sunday, the 7th of June. So get that date in your download diary. Don't forget you can send us your answers to the quiz and to what cricket sound is this. And you can still get anything you want to off your chest cricket wise by emailing sundayservice.pod at yahoo.com or tweeting at Sundayservice22.

SPEAKER_05 45:46

So thank you for listening. If you've liked what you've heard, please rate and review us as it really helps others find the podcast. Because as I always say, and Hector's getting very bored of me saying this, I want us all to join together and be one big, happy cricketing family. Thank you to Lizzie Alman for taking time out of her busy schedule and joining us today. And of course, thank you to our friends at Newbury Cricket for all their support and their magnificent competition prize, the SPS Bat, which is, as I always say, a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful piece of willow.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Until next Sunday from London and London, this has been a Hector Vickers and Mark Church production. Have a magnificent cricketing week, everybody. And remember, it's a test match that lasts five days. You don't have to win it in the first session.

SPEAKER_05 46:38

You can lose it in the first session, though, Hector. You can always remember that.