Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

In this episode, we dive into the truth behind imposter syndrome and why it shows up most when you’re stepping into growth. I share how being a beginner is not a weakness but the only path to real confidence, and how pretending to be something you’re not drains your energy and disconnects you from others. We also explore the pressure of perfectionism, the illusion of “being ready,” and why authenticity is becoming the most valuable skill in a world of polished, curated content.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
00:00 - First Podcast of the Year
01:00 - The Struggle of Being a Beginner
02:30 - Imposter vs Imposter Syndrome
07:30 - Trying to Prove Yourself
10:30 - The Power of Being Honest
16:20 - It’s Not About You
25:30 - Pressure and Perfectionism
31:20 - Authenticity in the AI Era
40:45 - Ready Is a Choice
45:10 - Focus on the Next Step
48:50 - Being Present Right Now

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

It's guaranteed the first time you do a podcast, you're gonna be an imposter. The first time, your first day as a CEO, you're an imposter. An imposter syndrome is actually when I'm faking it. Is when I'm presenting myself as something that I am not. One thing that will happen from that is it will drain the shit out of my nervous system because it's requiring so much energy for me to maintain that. So the pressure gets alleviated right away when I'm just like completely honest from where I'm at. This is the Mind Body Mentor Podcast where we explore how to create a life where you are deeply connected to yourself and everything in it. I'm your host, Steven Jaggers, and we are joined by my co-host Adam Carberry. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

All right, here we are, 2026, first live podcast of the year.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Yeah, let's hit it off strong. I'm excited. This is a this is such a fun topic and has been such a such a sticking point and a breakthrough for me in my own life that I'm I'm excited to dive in and tease it out with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yeah, and well, and I think it's especially special timing because we just completed one of our 12-week online trainings. And, you know, as always, when we start to gear up towards the end of that, this imposter syndrome starts to come up. And the question of like, oh my gosh, now the container's closing, do I have what it takes? Can I actually do it? And all of these doubts and all of these thoughts start to come up. So I'd love to just start off from that curious standpoint, Jaggers, of like, why do you think that is? Why do you think as students are starting to shift into doing the thing that they really want to do, that then they start to question it?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yeah, there's there's so much here. Like one, I think we have an incredibly hard time being a beginner at things. I know for myself, like I don't like to suck at things. It's incredibly painful. Um, I don't like feeling not competent, not confident in things. And uh like yeah, being a beginner is incredibly difficult, but it's the pathway to getting good at anything. You have to be a beginner at something. I think developing um, well, there's a quote, I think it's from Jordan Peterson. It's like if you replace the word discipline with skill, then like that that will help you develop a happy life because a happy life requires skill. But to develop skill requires discipline. And I think that to be able to develop skills in something, it takes that repetitive choosing over and over and over again. Even though I suck at something, even though I'm not good at something, I have to just face the reality of that because I'm never going to get better if I don't just go get the reps. But where the imposter syndrome comes in to that is imposter syndrome is fascinating because everyone is an imposter at some point in their life. And if you're doing something meaningful or you're trying to develop a skill set, you're going to feel like an imposter. Feeling like an imposter is different than imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome is when we're actually just being someone that we're not. It's a difference if I'm starting out as a practitioner and I'm telling people, hey, I'm new at this and uh like I'm just learning this, and this is where I'm at. And, you know, I want to develop these skill sets. And I think, you know, I'm I might actually be pretty good at it, but we'll let's find out. Just being absolutely honest where you're at in that moment. But so many of us hate the feeling of being a beginner and also don't want to be seen by other people as a beginner. We want to have all of our shit together and look like we're a professional and like start out just an absolute master at things. And that's just not how it works. So we're always going to feel like an imposter if we're doing something that we're growing in, if we're doing something that's pushing us. But imposter syndrome is a different thing, and that's actually just not being honest with where you're at, which takes a tremendous toll on you. And it also disconnects you to anybody that you're trying to connect with.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

That this reminds me of when I was first starting out as a practitioner, and like I still have my paper with all of my cues written on it. And like I used that with me almost every single session for like the first 20 sessions to just feel like fully comfortable that if I couldn't come up with something to say in the moment, then I had something to fall back on. But early on, there's this story in my head that okay, if the participants notice that I'm looking off of a paper, or if they notice that I'm I don't have the exact thing to say and I need to reference something, are they actually going to take me seriously? Are they going to look at me like I know what I'm doing? And the funny thing was, I actually had a participant, I want to say on like my fifth or sixth session after I got certified, say it how much she appreciated seeing me referencing to notes because it actually told her how much I was taking this work seriously and wanted to make sure that I was delivering to the best of my ability. And and so it's it's like, how many times do we feed ourselves the story of that I'm gonna look this way when in all actuality that isn't how we're we're truly going to be perceived?

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Yeah, it's it runs rampant in our mind that we need to come off as we are a professional at whatever we're doing, and that we um that if I'm just me and exactly where I'm at, that people won't find me valuable or what I'm giving valuable. And I'll like I'll give you a massive example of this. For so long in my life, and like I spent, you know, a good eight to 10 years, like just an absolute nerd in studying all of the different somatic-based stuff, mindset work, life coaching, body work, all of the different modalities. And I'm like, cool, I'm ready to like share what I've been learning. And um, and I would constantly communicate in this way where I wanted to be so deeply respected by people that I would try to put on this front of professionalism and this front of the like it's not even a front, it's just that I was always leading with this desire to be respected that it was covering up who I actually was at my core. So people actually couldn't connect to me to begin with. And so, like, and what happens is you actually alienate yourself, you alienate yourself by trying to um, yeah, just seem more like you know what you're doing, versus most of the time people's nervous system can relax more if you're just like, hey guys, this is where I'm at right now, and this is what I'm trying to learn, and this is what I'm trying to do, and uh, this is what I got to offer. I hope you, I hope you get something from it. Everyone's nervous system in the room is probably like, oh, thank God. He's not just like, he's not just trying to put up some front. Like everyone can feel it when you're doing that. And I remember a specific training. It was actually the first training that I did outside of my house where I looked at the lineup of it was eight students at the time, and I looked at the lineup and I was looking at their Instagrams and just like kind of checking out who they were. And it was, you know, uh one woman who is a physical therapist, another woman who was a Ph PhD psychologist who was like well known in the area. Um, I had this, you know, YouTuber with a million followers. I had two naturopathic doctors, and then I had like an aesthetician and like a life coach. But I'm looking at them across the board and I'm like, holy shit, specifically the PhD psychologist. I'm like, she's gonna rip me to shreds. Like, who am I to teach her anything about the mind-body connection or trauma or somatics? And you know, I went in for that first day. I like had my button-up shirt, and uh it's just it's so funny to think back on um picture that right now. I went in there just like with my papers and my button-up shirt, just like fully ready to like, you guys are gonna respect me. Um, and I have something for you. And um, you know, I was so exhausted after each day of the training just from the amount of um squeezing that has to happen inside of your musculoskeletal system from trying to put on that sort of thing.

unknown 9:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

But by day three, I'm like, we're all human here. And like if you get something from this, amazing. If you don't, and you know, if you think I'm a fraud or you like think it's, you know, this is woo-woo or whatever you think about it, I don't actually care at this point. And I remember at that time, the third day, the woman who is a PhD psychologist and the daughter was actually a physical therapist, had one of the most profound moments of healing in a connection exercise that they were doing. And I remember watching just the mother-daughter human-to-human connection and the tears flowing and just the healing that was happening. And I'm like, wow, um, here I am thinking about myself, which a lot of imposter syndrome is actually you're thinking more about yourself than you are about whoever you're working with or whatever audience that you're working with. And at that moment in time, I realized like it doesn't matter what sort of certificate, like what credentials you have, letters after your name or before your name that you have. Um, you're a human. And what I'm offering here is actually just human to human. And I know that people will get something out of it. And it took quite a few trainings after that for me to really actually just be able to relax fully into it. And it's I've I feel like I've only now hit that like the past year, because there's always little barnacles of imposter syndrome of us trying to perform or put on a show in some sort of way. But it's a it it that was a powerful pivotal moment of like, what if I would have just shown up acting like, hey, this is actually my first training I've ever done outside of my house and let's see how it goes.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Yeah, and and honestly, like I think sometimes that is the best approach with people is to just like state the fact that you're new from the beginning.

unknown 11:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Because it just it takes all the pressure off of your shoulders and it also takes the pressure off of the participants that feeling like, oh my gosh, that I'm I'm in the presence of somebody who has it all figured out, who knows it all, versus when you can meet somebody in that newness, when you can meet somebody that maybe they're new to breath work, okay, let's be new in this together and let's figure it out together and let that pressure off. And it's just really makes me think of like the story that I've told myself for a really long time when I was heavily dealing with imposter syndrome at the beginning of becoming a practitioner, and even more so in stepping into the role of mentor and instructor. Like it brought me through a whole new phase of who am I to teach this work? I'm I'm not you, I don't have the same background as you do. You know, I come from a tech background. Like, who am I to teach this stuff? But yet, really, I think what makes any of us so good at what it is that we do, it's when we can do, like you said, just be yourself, just share from that point of authenticity and humanness. And that's actually going to speak so much more than if you're being perfect and you have all the words and the perfect quotes and everything that goes along with it.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yeah. And even from a I remember a massive switch in my like my marketing, that I wasn't having any success at getting any sort of visibility from people when I was sharing from a place of like, this is what you should do, and this is um like this is what you should pay attention to, and your your body keeps the score, and just like repeating all of these things that I'm learning from a very professional standpoint, instead of speaking from just my own embodied experience of where I'm at right now, like, hey, this is what's working for me, and this is where I'm actually at in my life, and this is what I'm struggling with, and this is what I'm like I'm really proud of myself for. And these are the techniques that I've been using. When I made the shift to that, which I still like, I try to remind myself of that when I'm creating content for people, or even when I'm creating, like, we've seen a massive change in the just the way that we present our courses from information heavy and lecture based to experiential base.

unknown 14:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Um, it was a massive difference in how many people were actually open to hearing what I had to say when I was sharing from that place because there wasn't anything for them to defend against because I wasn't telling them what they should do. I was just sharing from a place of what was working from myself. And their nervous system, like for me, it it almost gives them an opportunity to opt in or opt out versus me just throwing something at them and then them having to like, I don't know if that's right or not, and and hitting getting hit with defense systems, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's one of the things that I appreciated about you in even in the early trainings was that you always shared, like take what resonates and leave the rest. Like it's it's not about everything that we're sharing is going to be the truth for each individual person, but there's truth sprinkled in there for each person. And take what what works and and what doesn't, okay. Well, then that wasn't for you.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Yeah, and that's uh that's like the baseline of this because if you truly believe that when you're working with somebody, you're not fixing or changing, or it's not about you and how you look or the skill sets that you have, but it's about the container that you're creating for someone to feel empowered within themselves, then none of that other stuff really matters because if you're solely focusing on empowering the other person, well, it doesn't matter what qualifications you have, you're never underqualified to be an empathetic witness for another person.

unknown 15:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

This this makes me think of one of the students from this last cohort shared after his opportunity to host a practice session within the container that he realized going through the session that the session wasn't about him. It wasn't about what could he give or do for this other person, but more so about how could he just remain such an anchored presence for that person to allow them to have whatever experience it is that they were meant to have. And he shared that, like leading up to it, you know, there's these feelings of imposter syndrome and doubts and worries. But like as soon as he dropped into that, that it's not about me, all of a sudden, like those doubts started to quiet and disappear. And I've noticed that within my own practice, that like that moment that I shifted it from being like, what can I offer this other person from a like productivity or a material standpoint to instead like me just being here with this other person for an hour is enough. And so if that is enough and I don't need to do any more than just being here with them, well, that actually allows me to take a deep breath. And if I can take a deep breath, then they're gonna be able to take a deep breath because we are regulating with each other in the session.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Yeah, and it it bumps up against so many of our mental paradigms and our hyper-individualist world that we live in, because you know, the mind is constantly thinking about how do I look? What do what do I have to say? You know, what do I have enough um uh evidence to prove to this person that I'm you know, I am who I say I am, which at the end of the day, you only need that the proof for yourself. So, and the proof for yourself doesn't come from the credentials that you have. Like there's there's I was doing some kind of mapping out because a lot of imposter syndrome comes from it comes from doubt. And there's sort of like three types of doubt that I was able to map out. There is the doubt that is borrowed, meaning that it's it's the doubt that's in your head that sounds like your parents or your father, like that you're not enough unless you get A's, or you know, you're not enough unless you do exactly as I say you should do, or you go to school for this. Like there's the there's the borrowed doubt that always feels like it's it's you're not enough until you get to wherever, right? Right, right. And then there's the there's the protective doubt, which is more of a nervous system doubt that happens where a lot of the times we're protecting ourselves more from success than from failure. Because if you think about it, if anytime you failed, you you don't really need to protect yourself. And I mean, you're you will you can come up with a million different excuses of why you failed, right? But a lot of the times your nervous system is protecting yourself from success because to be successful means that you're going to be seen, means that you can't hide anymore. And most of the time we're protecting ourselves from that over the actual failure. So there's the protective aspect that when it when it comes to imposter syndrome of like your nervous system scanning, like, oh shit, if I really pull this off, then everyone's gonna be able to see me. And so then if you're just honest from where you're at, then there's nothing to hide, right? It's the best tactic that you can use. And the last one in that is the sort of like the the doubt that is very wise, that's actually smart. And it's just the part of you that's saying, like, well, I actually need more resources for this, or I actually need more practice, or more um, you know, I I need more embodiment of this. And that's the doubt that you listen to, but that shouldn't stop you from doing what you're doing. It should actually encourage you to do more so that you can get the repetitions and it should encourage you to be more honest with you of where you're at in the moment.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

I I I want to take a rewind back to something that you were saying about like this voice that can come up, whereas it's like you you hear your dad's voice, or you hear your mom's voice, or you hear that teacher from third grade, or you know, whatever it is, like in your process, how have you distinguished between like what are your own doubts and insecurities versus what are the doubts and insecurities that others just gave you that you're just applying to yourself, even though they don't actually originate with you?

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Yeah, that's such a great question. For me, I can tell by the tone of the voice in my mind. And if it's coming through as is that, well, one, is it coming from my heart? And is it coming from a place of um, like I said, the the the the place the the wise doubt? Do I need more repetitions? The wise doubt is saying, Am I actually just being honest from where like for who I am, where I'm where I'm at, and that's actually enough? I'm just also wanting more resource and being more embodied in the thing that I'm actually trying to do. Versus a lot of the times the the borrowed doubt or the the borrowed doubt will sound like it's coming through in the mind so strong, and it'll say, like, if this happens, then these people will think this of me, and then I'm never gonna amount to this, and then my father's never gonna approve of me, and then my mom's not gonna love me anymore, and then you know, I'm not gonna be successful, right? So it's very much the borrowed doubt or the doubt that comes from other people uh comes through. in words in my mind as a you know I was talking with Rachel the other day and I I um we both have we like to we like to um narrate our inner critic for each other and actually get to know each other's inner critic like hers is this very uh just ruthless boss babe that's inside of her that's just an absolute CEO shark mine is like this uh this like monk on the mountaintop that just hangs out with a stick and every time I do something wrong he just wants to whack me and says do it again so it's it's becoming very uh connected and almost in a comical way of understanding the voice in your head it's like a it's a conglomeration of like my dad and other authorities that have uh amalgamated into this like little guy that's just whacking me with a stick in the back of my mind. It's actually hopefully everyone can can get a good visual there. But um that being said uh you can always tell when it's that sort of borrowed doubt and it's not yours when it's it's very verbal and it's just like it's it's verbally abusive truly I I definitely can can agree with that experience.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

And I think many people listening to this probably have very similar voices in their heads of overly just overly critical right and I think at least if I'm speaking to my own experience that's where a lot of the imposter syndrome comes from is it comes from this side of being overly critical like needing to have everything perfect. Like for me my inner perfectionist and my imposter syndrome that like they're two sides of the same coin. If I'm not getting something perfect then the imposter syndrome starts to come through but really it's like how can we accept the fact that like we're never actually going to truly get anything perfect. And if we can't get anything perfect then how can we be okay with just having things unfold the way that they unfold and this brings up another question of like do you feel that the imposter syndrome also stems from this need to feel perfect about something you know like we talked about being having this like professional persona come across versus if we just knew that everything was going to happen the way that it was meant to happen regardless of how we wanted it to happen, would we actually still feel the imposter syndrome in the same way it's such a good question.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

And I think the perfectionism is one way that it shows up the imposter syndrome is one way that it shows up the desire to heal myself is another way that it shows up the desire to improve myself is another way that it shows up the um the desire to protect my heart from being seen is another way that it shows up um my desire to control people and manage my life in a bunch of different ways instead of being able to enjoy it is another way that it shows up and it's all like the visual that I get it's all these outside pressures that are being pressed in on us. Perfectionism is a pressure that's it's not an outside expression. We think that perfectionism is this outside or this this expression of ourselves that we're channeling our perfectionism into something for other people but the perfectionism is actually just the pressure that's being put on us. The imposter syndrome is just the pressure that's being put on ourselves the desire to fix myself or fix other people is the pressure that's being put onto us instead of us being able to express our natural like connected version of ourself in that moment in time as an honest representative of where I'm at in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

This is really interesting that you bring this up, especially with the time period that we're in you know time of recording it's January 2nd for a lot of people it's it's this now drive okay it's a new year. This is going to be my year this is going to be the year that I write the book or I become the practitioner I start my podcast and the the pressure that society applies to us to become the best version of ourselves in in the new year it is like this added pressure on top of the pressure that we already give ourselves to be perfect or to to do the thing. So I I'm curious like how how do you navigate the new year? Do do you come up with new goals and things that you want to do or do you just look at the new year as just a new transitional phase to work on what you were already working on last year and just a continuation of it such a great question Adam there are a lot of different facets to that and I'll say that I'm in the discovery process of figuring out what works for me because I don't think I've ever been a real like New Year's resolution type person.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

One I think that having like New Year's resolutions in the dead of winter is kind of counterintuitive to nature itself like there's a whole rabbit hole that we could go down of like you know winter is a time of actually going inward. It's not a time to plant new seeds if you just think about the seasons in general like the our current calendar is and everyone can do a little bit of research to figure out that our current calendar is actually not um aligned to nature and humanity in a way actually I think that New Year's resolutions should probably be done um in the spring equinox when it's like okay now new life is ready to be um uh birthed into the world where for me this time period is much more um conducive for reflection in a lot of ways for going inward I just did a Rachel and I did a um uh sort of recap of just like what were the lessons that we learned this past year and what has like what has helped us feel most alive this year? What are we like no longer tolerating? So just doing a lot of reflection for me has been very helpful and it's actually informed me that there's not a lot of new things that I want to do this year. There's not a lot of new things there's actually just and I feel blessed to be in this place I actually just want more of what I already have I just want more of more teaching more connection more podcasting with you more um there's not a lot of new goals that I have besides just increasing the amount of presence that I have with people in my life increasing my time in nature which I'm already spending time so for me it's it's more of a time going inward and reflecting. What about you?

SPEAKER_00 29:34

I I'm actually I'm we're in full alignment with that I I initially had plans of as I've done every year up until this point of of like thinking about all the things that I want to do different or some new habits that I want to bring in or like getting back into my workout routine on a regular basis. And it was actually New Year's Eve I was sitting outside just kind of reflecting for a moment was like you know what maybe this is the year I'm not going to put more pressure on myself. Maybe this is the year that I'm just going to be okay with the fact that I'm okay with the way that my life is right now. Yeah I wake up every morning feeling so full of gratitude for the work that I do the relationships that I have the friendships that I have that it's like why do I need more I just want more of what I already have because there's this concept of like there is the ability to subtract from your life by adding more yeah subtraction by addition. Yeah but it's not addition of like adding more things and doing more that that's where when I first heard it that's what I thought I was like okay I need to add more so I need to do more I I need to you know have more practices or spend more time or have more calls. But no it's actually I just need to have more of what like makes me alive right now not more things not adding to my plate of what already exists but how can I just create more time for the things that I already am enjoying yeah spot on.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

And I don't know about you but anytime I put more pressure on myself it actually hammers those bad habits into place. Yep because when I'm putting more pressure on myself I'm more stressed out than I want to turn to vices or I want to watch more TV or I want to like you know watch more Netflix or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

But oftentimes it's the pressure of those lofty changes that um that create more issues in my life yeah so in in your experience by alleviating some of this pressure does that naturally start to alleviate this imposter syndrome that tends to pop up especially when you're trying to lean into things that are newer yeah there's a I mean absolutely man if you just think about it in your in your own life if you are getting ready to go on stage and to to do a speech in front of people and you like you know you start fumbling over your words in your in the beginning and then you say like hey guys sorry this is my first time ever doing this like how does your system feel after that moment and then how does everyone else respond to you most of the time everyone's like oh he's being truthful and authentic and there's this relaxation in the collective nervous system that happens.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

And I think especially like we're living in such an interesting time with AI and just highly curated stuff nowadays where there's almost this shift to go back to like just how non-curated can I make something and we're and you and you see it now because people because our eyes can tell when something is curated to perfection. Yeah and it all and it and it loses the humanness in it. And so what happens is this sort of banner blindness where if I see something perfect I'm just like no that's not real on to the next thing. And so I think it's going to be an interesting year of seeing like how real can we all be and that's like if I had any sort of goal it's like can I just can I just look at my life as a journal entry in time each day where it's just an honest representation of where I'm at I'll never forget and I think I read that in um Rick Rubin's book Creative Act, which is like the act of creativity is just creating something as an honest representation of where you're at right now. That doesn't mean that it's wrong. That doesn't mean that it's like it might be better tomorrow or worse tomorrow. It's just an honest representation of where you're at right now and there's nothing actually there's no extra polish that needs to go on it. So I know I have my work cut out for me on that and it's not a like a coming like putting more pressure on myself to do that. Even as I think about it right now I'm like cool now I have pressure to be more real and more authentic which is like which is not the way to go about it. Yeah um but yeah I mean immediately I think that the imposter syndrome starts to go away because remember being an imposter it's guaranteed it's guaranteed the first time you do a podcast you're gonna be an imposter the first time your first day as a CEO you're an imposter your first like child like I'm about to be a dad I'm gonna feel like an absolute imposter I know for the first few months. But imposter syndrome is actually when I'm faking it is when I'm presenting myself as something that I am not. And one like one thing that will happen from that is it will drain the shit out of my nervous system because it's requiring so much energy for me to maintain that. Yeah. So the pressure gets alleviated right away when I'm just like completely honest from where I'm at. And one um sort of principle it's a Japanese principle that it's called beginner's mindset is this idea it's called shoshin where for me to learn anything I have to be a beginner. And if I want to learn which the only way to gain confidence is to be a beginner and is to learn which requires me to be authentic of where I'm at which requires me to get over that I suck at something and then I'm gonna suck at something just a little bit less next time until my you know thousandth time I've done it and then I'm like wow I don't suck at this anymore. And then my natural authentic version of myself is that I'm good at this and I don't feel like an imposter anymore. But the only way in it is through it. There's no shortcuts in the process.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Yeah it it's so interesting that like when you look at other cultures and how they structure things and I I look at our culture and it's like man even from a schooling standpoint like the way that public school systems are structured it's almost like it's structured to create this imposter syndrome because if you don't get every question right, you get a bad grade. If you don't complete the task that's asked of you exactly the way that it's asked of you, you get a bad grade. And it's almost like this this feeling of if you if you are just a beginner, if you do get something wrong, then there inherently is this punishment that's going to follow it, whether it's from a teacher, whether it's from a parent or whether it's just from yourself. And so there's so much I feel like we can learn from other cultures and how they look at this like beginner's mindset. And I I have tried to adopt this beginner's mindset in everything that I do recognizing that I'm never going to be a master at anything because there's always going to be something new to learn.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

What a true master would say what a true master would say is that there's always some there's always going to be someone better than me and there's always going to be someone worse than me, no matter where I'm at. But one of the fascinating things that I see with practitioners specifically is this um like and we've talked about this before but it's so much it's actually more beneficial to your clients if you are actually at a third grade reading level and they're at a first grade reading level when it comes to their own process versus like if I'm at a college level and I'm working with someone at a first grade level there's so much more of a gap. And so we often have the the the easiest um the easiest time and the most authentic time working with the people that are closest to us that we might just be one little step ahead of them. For me I it's harder for me sometimes to work with people when they're at an elementary school level in their own process, which is not bad or good but for me it's like I'm much more capable to work with people at a higher level just because that's where I'm at in certain things in other things like I had a guitar lesson a few years ago where this guy was just so good at I watched him play and I'm like I want to get lessons from you but I'm like he's way out of my league and he didn't have the ability to come back to putting himself in a beginner in a beginner's mindset. It reminds me as well is you know a lot of us are looking at social media at these people who have made millions of dollars or highly successful or you know the Warren Buffett's of the world or the Alex Hermosis or um and it's like well that the the advice that they're giving right now is where they're at right now. It's not from where they were at your stage right yeah so the people that you're gonna you're gonna be able to work with or have more impact on are the people that are closer to you.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

And and this makes me think of that like the cost of the waiting to do something until you're like ready right you know of okay now is not the right time I need to do a little bit more research or I need to get another certification or I need to take another course and and then I'll be ready and then I'll finally do the thing. But maybe you are ready at that point but maybe at that point now you're so many steps ahead of the person that you actually have been trying to help that now you're not going to be able to help them as well because you're not going to have that beginner's language that they need to hear. You're gonna have more of that advanced language and then you're creating disconnect where there should be a connection. And I think that's that's such a a beautiful thing to always like remember when you're stepping out on something new is who do you want to work with? Figuring that out and that will steer you into that direction of how can you show up from that place instead of trying to push yourself so far in the future thinking that well that's the only place that I'm gonna be able to work with people is if if I'm here and they're here but it actually is such a more beneficial relationship when you're that much closer to each other in the same level.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Yeah. There's a quote that is like being ready is not a feeling it's a choice. And the reason why that one's so prevalent to me right now is because of the next journey that I'm stepping into as a father and you know sitting with my partner and like we're not ready. We don't feel neither of us feel ready whatsoever but ready is not a feeling it's a choice. And if I start getting caught up in like well what type of school system and I am I gonna put them in what um you know how am I going to discipline them? What am I like what are we going to do about screen time? All of these things is like well I'm not I don't need to think about that. I just need to think about the next step at hand and when and when it comes time for that I'll make the choice to be ready when it comes to that and the same thing as a practitioner is just we get so caught up on how am I going to market myself? How am I going to do big events? How am I going to make a million dollars? Well how about just right now you focus on making the choice that you are ready you're ready to learn your skills you're ready to deepen your confidence you're ready to practice just showing up as a practitioner it might not be sexy but it'll take a tremendous amount of pressure off of yourself and you'll feel so much more ready because you made the choice, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Yeah. So what what I'm hearing you say is that this inherent focusing on all of the possibilities that are in the future versus just focusing on what's present is actually what leads us to this feeling of not being ready or what feeds the imposter syndrome because we're trying to worry about controlling things that have yet to happen.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Spot on Adam you only have to look at the task at hand and when you look at that task at hand and then you show up fully as yourself in that moment in time maybe not feeling ready but making the choice it's a choice. It's a choice to show up as yourself Right now, it's a choice to be honest of where you're at versus trying to put on a facade, right? Right. It's the choice, and even the practice of that choice. Like I just did the um the 30-day content challenge with my partner, which was just focusing on visibility. It was just focusing on getting in the route of or just carving out the neural pathway of just posting every day and being visible in front of people. There was no strategy on I'm going to sell something, like I'm positioning myself, I'm trying to build my authority, I'm trying to showcase myself as a certain way. It just was grooving the path of showing up and being visible. Once I have that path, now I can start adding in the other things. It reminds me a little bit about uh of like drumming, where I never understood people that could play a drum set. Like I played guitar and like the closest I can get to is playing a guitar and singing at the same time because it's it's one thing you have to get like one drum going, and then you get the other one going. And only at that point can you add in the third one with without letting go of the other ones. Same thing as the guitar, like you have to learn basic scrumming, like you have rhythm in one hand, and then you have notes in the other hand. And only when you've done that to the point of where it you don't have to think about it anymore, now I can start to open up the path of me singing as well. So there's no shortcuts in the process of any of this. And we look at because there's so many tactics out there around business and marketing, and it's like if you if you thought about it for a second, if money was not tied to any of this as a practitioner, you would just focus on getting really good at it. What else would you focus on? You would just focus on getting really good at it. And if you just focus on that, then the money will come, all the other things will come. But it's a skewed hyper-individualist perspective that we live in right now of how do I curate myself in this sort of way? Which will only work for a little while. Yeah, people will eventually see that you don't, you, you, you aren't who you say you are. And so you have to just take it one step at a time because you'll never gain confidence, you'll never gain the embodied skill set if you don't go through the suck, if you don't go through the beginning stages, if you don't show up as you are right now.

unknown 46:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

So if someone who's listening to this conversation or listening to the recording of it is like right at that edge where there's a part of them that wants to step into this like new path or this new version of themselves, and then there's another part of them that just wants to disappear, that wants to lean into the words that the imposter syndrome is trying to tell them. Like, what would you want them to understand about that that particular moment of choice?

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Yeah. So there is an old operating system and there is a new operating system inside of yourself. And this is on a not just on a mental level, but this is on a somatic level too. And really, it's just becoming aware of when am I trying to perform to be valuable, to be loved, to feel safe. We're doing all those things to feel safe versus can I focus on just being like safe in myself right now, and then I can be present. And then from that place of presence, then I can serve from overflowing, and then my value becomes natural, right? It's focusing on I need to do all of these things to feel safe or to feel enough. Like because the perfectionism, all the pressure, all of those different things are coming from like, I want to feel safe in myself and I want to feel valued, versus can I feel valuable being a beginner? Can I feel safe in being a beginner? And the only way to do that is like for the practitioners listening to this, you will it will take some repetitions, but you'll have this aha moment of cool, this next session, I'm actually just going to be completely vulnerable and let them know this is exactly where I'm at right now, or this is my first time speaking, or this is my first time filming a video on social media. And can I actually just practice feeling safe in that to the point that I'm fully present in it? And then I can start building from that place instead of doing all of these things to feel safe, to feel enough. There's a massive switch in that. And it just requires enough self-awareness as you're doing, you know, as you're, as you're, you know, putting yourself out there in the world and practicing whatever craft, whatever uh, whatever pathway that you're choosing right now, can you start to feel safe where you're at versus doing all of these things to feel safe or enough?

SPEAKER_00 49:41

I love that. And and what I'm this is kind of the the continued message that you've been sharing throughout this whole podcast of it's really just about being present right now, not trying to project into the future, not trying to project in tomorrow, not trying to project an hour from now, but just being here right now, as Ram Des says, be here now.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Yeah, it's one thing to hear that, it's a whole other thing to really practice that. And for me, I have to I have to train my mind that I'm only gonna be able to build skills if I can be here right now. So being here right now, it's great as far as um, you know, if I want to be a monk or if I want to have a deep spiritual connection, which nothing against that. I think that's probably the cleanest way to go about it. But there are aspects of me that I need a little motivation. So it's like, I'm gonna be present here right now because that's the only time that I can actually learn something. If I'm thinking about the future, then I'm not here right now and I'm not developing the skill set that I need.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

Yeah. I mean, can even think about it just from a conversational standpoint of like if you're there having a conversation with somebody, but you're in here thinking about another conversation or thinking about what you want to need need to do next or what's going to come next, or what are you going to say next? A lot of times you actually end up missing what that person's communicating and saying. So, how can we be truly here right now with what is in every possible way that we can? So we do capture everything that is in this moment.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

That's the goal. That's the goal. And I think that you know, my prediction for this next year is the people that are able to be vulnerable, that are able to be real, that are able to just showcase themselves in the moment from an honest place. Um that's what people are gonna resonate with the most.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Because everything is looking so polished and so AI and so just perfect in so many ways that we want to see some human smudges on things, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Yeah, yeah. I mean, even I I had to respond to a comment that I posted to in our community to one of the practitioners that shared after our graduation, and I mistyped something. And I meant to say welcome to life after breathwork, but instead I said welcome to the afterlife of breathwork. And I just responded, I was like, Well, this is how you know I'm not answering your comments through AI because I actually meant to say something completely different, but I kind of like the way that afterlife of breath work sounds.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

It's incredible. Well, this was an awesome conversation, Adam. For those of you that are listening, I hope you've got so much. I hope that maybe it just shifted your perspective on what imposter, being an imposter versus imposter syndrome is. And I hope that everyone takes some time right now to just reflect and let yourself be and relax during this new year. I'm giving you full permission to, you don't need to set all of the goals and put all this pressure on yourself right now. Um, just take some time to be present with yourself right here, right now, and with the people that you love.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Jaggers, as always, thank you so much for your wealth of knowledge and wisdom and just continuing to share how you've moved through all of this. Um it's it's just so grateful to be able to have your resource at my disposal. Um I'm I'm a little selfish in in being on this podcast that I get to continue to pick your brain and ask these questions. So I just really, really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 53:43

Yeah, appreciate you, Adam. And these, I'm so excited as we just started these podcasts this year. We have so many incredible insights, and a lot of them are coming from you in the audience. So make sure that you let us know what topics do you want Adam and I to pick apart. Um, we're gonna be spending more time together, really, really like putting all of our energy and effort into these podcasts. So we have so much coming up, but stay in touch. If you're not in the school community, hop in there. We live stream these. Thank you for everyone that showed up live to this. We love you, we're grateful, and we cannot wait to see you in twenty twenty-six, and uh, you know, it's a lot of the