The Girls Get Pervy and the Boys Just Wine

Are the ladies creeps or just opportunistic? Is Ross's so pathetic its almost a superpower?  Tune in to find out.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello again. Welcome everybody to episode four of Gen Z vs. Friends. I'm Todd Sullivan, your friendly neighborhood Elder Millennial. Is that a thing? Um, not quite as cool as Spider-Man, not quite as creepy as Iron Man. Um, yeah, here to once again have a quick discussion about every Elder Millennial's favorite show, whether they actually want to admit it or not, uh, friends, and whether or not it is as difficult and problematic um as the youth and enlightened folks of today uh seem to believe that it is. Um this is a show where we're gonna give it a score at the end of the episode based on whether or not the show was still funny, still memorable, whether it did anything unique uh or positive, uh whether it's cringeworthy, whether it's offensive, and whether or not we should make it today if given the chance. Um this is one of my favorite episodes, uh, or at least um it was one of the most memorable memorable, and one of the ones I look forward to actually re-watching and reviewing. Um so without too much delay or ado, let's just get into it. Episode four, Gen Z vs. Friends. Okay, we're back. So, season one, episode four, the one with the hockey game. I gotta say, this is probably the first episode that I actually remember watching when it came out. So the show was about a month, six weeks in. Um, and my impression when I was a kid was that this area was just or this episode was just hilarious and and edgy, and I loved it. Um so looking back on it, there's a couple of moments uh that I thought were great. Uh, but we'll see how that goes. Um, I feel like it's these kind of episodes that are going to be the most disappointing um when I actually go to when when I'm going through this little project. So we'll see what happens. So once again, this episode continues that cold open tradition, now four whole episodes deep, um, of starting sitting around the coffee shop having a discussion that starts off seeming innocuous and then quickly turns dirty. Usually because uh Joey makes it dirty. Uh that seems at this point in the history of the show, seems to largely be his point in the friend group or in the chemistry. Um to make things uh yeah, basically Mattle Blanc there to make things a little dumber and dirtier. That seems to line up with everything he said about it afterwards, and that it was the later discussions with producers and writers that led to some significant changes in the character of Joey. I I'll I'll be honest, I'm not even criticizing it. I think in the 20s, everybody had that one friend that only contributes to the group by kind of making things either a little bit more dangerous uh or a little bit more likely to end up in a criminal charge. Um not necessarily by doing two different things. Um but yeah, every at least every group of guys, uh, everybody had that one friend. That's kind of why you keep them. They make life a little more interesting. Um, and now when you tell stories, your wife wonders why you were friends with them. Um I might have a couple of those. I might have been that guy, but not that often. Usually, usually just had that friend. Anyway, in this particular episode, it's a little different. It's not the general three-story set. Um, it's kind of uh divided into two. And this time it's one for the boys and one for the girls. Kind of uh one of those funny little dynamics of the way that this showed was laid out. Uh pink story and a blue story, as it were. Um, you know, there's an argument to say the blue story is the main one, uh, mostly because it has some kind of long-term story arcs. Um, but I'll be honest, I actually kind of liked the pink one better. I like the girls' story. I liked where that one went and some of the things it said. So we'll I think we're gonna start there um and then come back around to uh to the boys and their hockey game. So, uh for a variety of reasons, uh Phoebe's loud sex-heaving grandmother, Rachel recently discovering that a waitress doesn't make enough tips. Uh, the lady friends have decided to stay in and have a good old-fashioned slumber party. Um, TV really made me think adult life would have at least as many, if not more, slumber parties than your your childhood did. Um, but this, to be totally fair, is one of those moments that really made you want to be one of the friends. Uh, once again, not knowing how much renting Greenwich Village was actually worth as a kid, this looked like you didn't need a lot of money or the right invites to do something fun and to have some good friends and and just enjoy, have an enjoyable life. Um, basically, all you needed was some good friends and to be in the right place at the right time. And you kind of had it made in the shade. Um, they really do just have a kid's sleepover, um, just removing any chance your parents could walk in the door and replace it with frozen boozy frozen margaritas, or depending on what your childhood or teenagers were like, um, at least boozy margaritas that are not threatened by the fact that your parents could walk in at any moment. To be honest, I still want to just do this. We uh we bought an amazing ninja slurping machine this past summer, my wife and I. Um, feel free, sponsor away Ninja. Love it. Um might be one of the greatest things we've ever purchased as an adult, as adults. Um, yeah. Happy to be your spokesperson. Like honestly, at the time that the the episode actually came out, I had no idea. But I don't even as I didn't drink, but when I knew drank, my parents didn't drink. Um yeah, like I said, they were old church friends and and I was probably and gratefully at 1213 my school friends uh were all a little bit young. Anyone was a little bit young to have started drinking or at least drinking any serious in any serious way yet. But the whole thing looked like fun, and I do think there's something to that. Um, just having fun means wanting it to be fun and making it fun, making jokes, being slightly ridiculous, have some laughs. Um, and you know, I think especially as teenagers, when we were trying to have a good time, this is what we were trying to emulate. It's what we wanted to be, maybe not from this show or not this moment. Um, but these these moments from media that we were told that was a good life, that was what we were trying to emulate. And I think they were right, because when it worked, it worked and it was great. Um to be fair, it took 15 years to to realize that, you know, alcohol, social lubricant, there's a way the reason they call it that, and it does actually help uh make those moments a little easier. Um but all of that being said, I had tons of fun without it uh for the decade and a half in between. So, you know, it's just about wanting fun and making it. I I kind of, and this is a little bit judgy. Um well, this whole thing, let's face it, slightly judgy. If I didn't think I was slightly smarter than Gen Z or younger millennials, I wouldn't have even bothered to try and prove them wrong about their feelings about my favorite show. Um, but it I think it might be a little bit of why people are angrier now. Um, not just because the world sucks more, which it did. It does. Um sorry about that. To be fair, it sucked when it was, you know, well, uh can't even argue that it's been fully handed over to my generation yet. Uh we already know what sucks. Um, but because the adult characters, and even the young characters that you see in entertainment, they're just everything's more serious, everything's darker. There's not as much space to just have fun. Um whereas, yeah, and this at this point, like even the grown-ups just relaxed and had a good time, and that was part part of life. Um might be why some of this stuff doesn't speak to them the same way. If you're raised on euphoria, it's gonna be tough to see, you know, some friends having margaritas and drinks and say that that's realistic. That's what grown-ups actually do when, you know, sometimes it is, and sometimes it's all you want to do. Um some sometimes you need to put on a onesie, make some toxic margaritas, and sit on the balcony on an ice site with your friends. What's surreal here, what gets a little weird, is the appearance across the street, theoretically, of George Stephanopoulos. So, to be clear, not being American and being in my early teens when this came out, when it came out, I had no idea who this was. Um, probably, and realistically, I I didn't see my first actual picture of George Stephanopoulos until probably like eh, five years ago, because he uh he was out of the public, out of the zeitgeist by the time I started paying attention to that sort of thing. Um, but it doesn't really matter because at the time you could just insert generic attractive 90s celebrity here, assume that's who it was, probably picturing uh, I don't know, a George Clooney-esque type character as a kid, uh, but somebody in that genre, uh, and it would do just fine. So if you don't know who George Stephanopoulos is or don't know what he looks like, feel free to look him up. But it's not terribly important. Uh just insert that celebrity there. There's nothing other than maybe his height, but you know, everyone in Hollywood's shorter than they say. So um, yeah, just feel free, fill in the blanks for yourself. Um to be fair, I I do think there was something to making it a White House aid instead of just your average actor, was a choice that was meant to elevate all of the characters, like the fact that Phoebe, Monica, and Rachel would care more somehow about the fact that this was a popular White House aide and not just some guy from Hollywood. If you could just see this easily into neighbors' buildings all the time, there was probably sexy naked men available for viewing constantly, um, artists and actors and models and the like all over New York. Um, but that, you know, that's the point that didn't excite these ladies. It's got to be a smart, progressive politician to get them running for a view. This should show us also how in this great cosmopolitan behemoth of New York City, at any moment anybody could share the pizza delivery guy with anyone else, no matter how famous or important, they could have been the last stop for the poor guy from Domino's. Um and to before the internet made it possible to search any celebrity news that might exist, you were also just as likely to be flashed by an unaware socialite as an unaware neighbor. Uh, what is unlikely is that this would have actually happened in Greenwich Greenwich Village, at least with George Stephanopoulos. Uh, when I was in New York a couple years ago, my wife made sure to direct us past the building uses as the building in the exterior shots. Um, this is one of my favorite parts of the trip, to be honest. You know, tried not to geek out. I don't I don't really do that anyway, but inside I was very excited. Um, not just because of seeing the building, which is a little surreal, you know, something uh something that you saw literally 250 times or something as a as a child. Um, but be you know, the village is a brilliant place. Greenwich Village is amazing. It is exactly what I hoped it would be: boutiques and galleries and restaurants and cafes. Um it is hipster, New York, specifically 90s hipster, New York, you know, and uh it it one of those places that didn't disappoint. But it it's probably not where George Stephanopoulos lived in the 90s. Um but we know they catch him on a date or a hookup of some sort, and we assume he doesn't live there as there's never talk of a second time that they get to see naked George Stephanopoulos. Actually, to be totally fair, I sort of assumed that George Stephanopoulos became ugly naked guy. That's another day, but that was kind of my assumption as a kid that that that was who it was. Um but we know so we uh we're led to believe George is hooking up with some aforementioned hipsters slumming it around Greenwich Village, if you will, and these women are down for it. Uh maybe it feeds into their own fairy tale of New York that they too could be swept up in the world of the elite for a night. Maybe it's a coincidence that people who live in that place get used to, but yeah, it's also possible I'm overthinking it, and it's just funny to see a famous naked person. Um now, I also do see why this can make young people today less comfortable. Uh the internet has raised them in a world where your privacy is literally a commodity, and it only exists if it's diligently and aggressively protected. In 1993-93, privacy was privacy was yours until you gave it away. Uh, in the 30 years since, the world has obviously changed dramatically. Uh criminals can fish for noons as perverse play at power over a stranger. You know, hackers break once impenetrable walls to steal images of celebrities that were only meant for intimate partners, and armies of bots are constantly hunting for cracks in our digital armor. But at this time, all he needed to do to protect himself would have been to pull the drapes. Uh and when you did accidentally see beyond the curtains, physically and metaphorically, there was maybe some blushing and some embarrass embarrassment, but the moment was over quickly. You know, there was no long-term damage because there was incredibly low likelihood that there were pictures and that those pictures would be any good. And, you know, I recognize it. And if that happened today, that's a totally different story, uh, totally different set of morals and structures that go into it. Um, but it's impossible to impose that on that time frame. It's almost impossible to express how far any of that would have been from anyone's mind, how inconceivable the permanence of the internet was at that age is is a key to a lot of what is to come. But also by a 20-year-old living today cannot understand that world in which Monica, Phoebe, and Rachel were living, all peeping through the neighbor's window. You you could move through the world with a shared understanding that your mistakes and follies, as embarrassing as they might be, and you know, maybe he's not even embarrassed. No matter how terrible it is, though, over time they would just go away. It would all fade away. Uh, and this this is what would take the sting from from any of that kind of issue. Uh, worst case scenario, it would last a day at most, uh, and then it's gone. But we'll come back to that a little bit at the end. Um sadly, here it's impossible not to talk about whiny satzac Ross. Um just a couple episodes in, and I know I can already probably probably all already probably will have been branded as an apologist uh for the world's whiniest paleontologist. But this episode hurts. Hurts in trying to find meaning for Ross and trying to be somewhat sympathetic. Um he spends the whole episode complaining about how this is the anniversary of his first time with Carol, and what we determine to have actually been his first time ever. Or not what we determine, what he volunteers to have been uh his first time ever. It's actually so distracting that you almost miss the fact that for some reason Monica already knew that, the whole thing about it, the the anniversary of his first time and his relationship with Carol, and and not in like a shocked, oh my god, what are you talking about kind of way, but like in a this is slightly weird but not totally abnormal piece of information from my brother's sort of information. Just in watching it again, having sisters, I just had to step back and be like, seriously, why does she know that? And why does she talk about it so freely? Why does he talk about it so freely? I understand, you know, I didn't grow up in a liberal Long Island family, and my repressed prairie upbringing was miles and miles away, but my god, that was too much to tell your sister uh and just kind of ridiculous. I absolutely we have all heard people complain about, you know, the biggest thing after breakup, you're you're not having sex anymore. I've heard people complain that, you know, the sex isn't as good with a new person, but never just moaning and complaining about how many years it's been since they were with their ex the first time. Any group of guys I've ever been around. It doesn't matter. Rugby players and lawyers, academics, Christians would have given this guy so much shit for this. Seriously. And maybe that's the real problem with Ross, his friends don't actually provide the check and balance that your peers are supposed to. It's kind of why they're there. Tell you when you're being ridiculous, tell you when you're being an idiot. If your friends aren't there to tell you when you're being an ass and then correct your behavior with a little bit of soft but genuine negative reinforcement, how can you even be blamed for your poor behavior? And we've met his parents, so this has been a problem from the start. This dude never had a chance. This poor, poor, pathetic, whiny, whiny man never actually even had a chance. And may okay, maybe that's too far with uh trying to find some sympathy for Ross. But my god, I mean, this is an episode episode where the complaints about that character can absolutely be seen uh shining through. The other characters, once again, they highlight it, they show that this is not you know, it's not expected to be seen as normal. Um, but come on, like just leave the leave this man at home. Let him complain to himself. It's not worth it. It's not helping him, it's not helping you, it's not making anybody feel better. Um to be fair, when we get to the end of the scene, he's gonna wrestle a child and his friends will help him and then help him flee the scene. Oh, cool, guys. Pretty sure that's a crime, no matter what decade we are in. There's also another kind of odd generational issue that I thought was interesting. How the broken nose could even have happened. So if any of their kids watching today who happen to happen to be hockey fans, they are probably wondering the same thing. How did this even happen? How did the puck come out at that velocity break his nose? Um, and why wasn't why weren't people more shocked about it? They're big X, you know, great big nets up at the end of the ice to catch that, uh, catch the pucks if they go high now. Early 90s, this didn't exist. One of many, many, many safety measures that came in during the 90s in reaction to the incredibly unsafe world in which we were living, uh, and arguably make the world too safe, uh, take out a great deal of risk. But it it's actually, it was about 10 years after that that the nets were made part of the arenas. So in 93, not only was it possible, but it was actually a valid play and a valid way to stop playing a hockey game, shoot it up and out of the arena. And the reason those nets went up is this sort of thing did happen. They hit people in the face, hit people in the head, they hit kids, they hit senior citizens, caused some injuries, and eventually people realized that if you're paying for a ticket, perhaps you should not be taking on the risk of serious head injury just to watch a hockey game. Um, could also be maybe that's the unspoken thing, and why we know that Ross lives so well in uh eventually a really beautiful Manhattan apartment on an academic salary, is he sued the NFL for the damage to his face? Who knows? Um it actually might be more believable than uh than any other guesses, but anyway. So after Ross finishes whining and everything else goes on, we we get on to the scores. Um First of all, funny. Is this episode still funny? Well, yeah, it actually is. Uh it's still pretty funny. I'd say give this one a three. Him getting hit in the face, the the girls in their and their celebrate party, all very funny stuff, very good. Um I would you know, nothing crazy new here. I think we imposed some newness on it. Um, the idea of uh catching a glimpse of a celebrity's butt was not new at the time, um, even though some of the the ramifications for it in today's world would be different. Um is it memorable? Well, yeah, it was for me anyway. Uh I think David Schwimmetter, in my opinion, has some good, solid physical comedy chops that start to come out of that episode. Um and when he isn't being annoying, you know, he's really he's got some good moments here. Um I as I said, I remembered the mentions of George Stephanopoulos even before I knew who George Stephanopoulos actually was. So um, yeah, uh absolutely it's a memorable episode. Well, so I'd I'd give that a three uh just for for memorableness. Uh is it cringy? Well, I want to make sure I'm clear when I talk a lot, talk about cringe. I'm talking about things that are painfully out of date or uncool, not just awkward. So this this mark is not for the crossing of social boundaries, it's for the painfulness of listening to Ross talk about sex and his sex life with Carol. To the writers, I'm going to give them the credit of saying that maybe 20-somethings in the 90s were a little more likely to wax vainly about their first and only partner. Um, in which case, but in any case, it's it's very cringy. It's a negative, it's a hard negative three. As many points as I gave myself to cringe at on this episode, uh, that's what he wins here. Is it offensive? Um That's that's the good question. Um, so I recognize the issues with consent and voyeurism, um, but you really do have to take it out of time to to see those issues. In 93, quick peek, naked celebrity through a window on the other side of the street, small, blurry, an illicit thrill at best. Um, no record, non-repeatable. I I truly understand in the world of hacks and leaks and the fappening and everything that's happened in the last 10-15 years, it becomes much creepier. And and when you're watching it for the first time, you couldn't help but thinking about all those things. In 93, it's best a good story at a party that most people aren't going to believe. Um, so I'm gonna give it a minus one for offensiveness. Um, but I I'll be honest, I struggle with even that. Um, that's a bit of a nod um to people watching it entirely through a lens of of the world today. Um, so just a minus one there. Um like, no, not really. I mean, I'll be honest, the broken nose was a genuine shock, uh, as I said, and and the relaxed, kind of open feel um uh around the girl sitting on the balcony just felt inviting and exciting at the time. So I'd you know, I'd leave that at a zero. Uh leave that at a neutral score. Could you make it today? Yes, but with two caveats. One, how does the puck leave the rink around the nets with enough velocity to do damage? Genuine question. You'd have to find a new mechanic for that. Maybe it's a different sporting event, maybe it's basketball, whatever. Uh, but you would have to fix that. Um, and then if you were gonna make it today, you'd have to talk about why no one took pictures. And that would probably end up dominating the episode. And it takes what was kind of funny and lighthearted into a whole different, dark, moralistic place. You'd probably have Phoebe again talking about something terrible that happened to her. You'd have, you know, Rachel talking about that time that someone hacked into her phone as a teenager and Monica wanting to get a little bit of revenge uh against people who treated her badly. Like you can see all of those conversations happening, um, becomes a whole different thing. However, um, if they're gonna do it, I I still think there would be some comedy there, um, and some value to it. Uh And so you could and and just have some discussion around that negative impact. So I'd put it at a zero. I don't think it's an easy make. Um and if you did, it may not even be that may not be a comedy episode anymore. Um, but you could make it if you really wanted to. Should you? I yeah, because I think with those tweaks, it's still a funny episode, but it doesn't it doesn't have any big impact. Um so it's uh say there, we'd probably leave it at a zero, too. You you could make the jokes, um, but there's not a lot of other reason to do it, uh, and no big social impact. Um, so in the end, uh that comes out as just two points for what I really think of as one of my favorite episodes. Uh reasonably low score, still in the positive. Um, and I there's probably people out there willing to take issue with the fact that uh I was willing to apologize for both Ross's behavior and and kind of the weirdness around uh, you know, it's fun to see a famous person person's naked butt or anybody's naked butt. I don't think that, you know, that probably didn't even come up as that idea. Maybe they were just wrong. Once again, when we saw the building, it's a long way away. No one breaks up binoculars, you know, so it was a dark-haired short guy with a nice butt. Maybe you were just looking at your creepy neighbor's butt. Or maybe you sorry, maybe you were just being creepy and looking at your neighbor's butt, and you had to see that guy at the coffee shop tomorrow. Once again, maybe that's why it never comes up again. You realize it wasn't George Stephanopoulos, it was just Dan. Um, and you know, it wasn't a random hookup, it was Dan and his wife, and now you've invaded their privacy, and that's just sad. Sad and wrong. It's more fun if it's George Stephanopoulos. Thanks, guys. All right, folks, thanks so much for being here and enjoying episode four of Gen Z vs. Friends. Uh, hopefully it was good for you, fun for you, relaxing for you, helped you get through 23 minutes of the day, scratched a little bit of that itch, um, and helped you get ready for uh for tomorrow. Uh once again, and as always, this is an entirely human recorded, human written uh production. So uh again, thank you for supporting us uh against the coming evil AI overlords. Um if that's news to you, uh yeah, there's other podcasts for that, you're gonna have to look it up. Uh maybe we'll talk about that on the one where uh Joey has a fight with his computer and loses the fate of humanity. Anyway, till that happens, grab a coffee, grab a tea, and we'll see you on the couch next time.