Ep. 17. Inclusion, Agency, and Knowing the Learner with Calum Wright

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob sits down with Calum Wright, primary teacher, outdoor learning specialist, and founder of Fresh Air Teacher, for a thoughtful conversation about student agency, inclusion, and knowing learners well.

At the heart of the episode is a key question, when does challenge help a student grow, and when does pushing beyond a comfort zone become unhelpful? Rob and Callum explore how good outdoor practice depends on relationships, trust, and careful observation rather than blanket assumptions.

They discuss:

•  why student agency matters in outdoor learning 
•  how to better understand when a learner needs encouragement, adaptation, or space 
•  the impact of outdoor learning for students with neurodiverse needs
•  why inclusion is never automatic, but built through listening and knowing each child well 

A valuable episode for educators interested in learner-centred, inclusive outdoor practice.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome to the Outdoor Education Podcast. Honest conversations about nature, learning, and leadership. We explore stories from the field that remind us why outdoor and experiential education matters now more than ever. Callum has over a decade of teaching experience across multiple countries and holds a master's degree in outdoor education. Through his work in schools and at conferences such as those hosted by the Institute for Outdoor Learning and ECIS, he is focused on making outdoor learning practical, inclusive, and embedded, not just as an add-on, but as a core pedagogy. In this conversation, we'll explore what it takes to move outdoor learning from enthusiasm to implementation, why the outdoors can be a powerful space for neurodiverse learners, and how schools can create systems where teaching outside becomes normal rather than novel. Callum, it's great to have you on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

It's great to be here, Rob. Thank you for having me on your podcast. I've been following it for a while, so yeah, I'm honored to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Ah, it's a pleasure. Callum, as you'll know, we always ask our guests how they got their start in outdoor education or what drew you to the outdoors as a as a person.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Yeah, um, so I think it really began in my childhood. I grew up in a small village in the north of Scotland, and I guess my childhood revolved around being outdoors a lot of the time, just being outside, be playing in the forest, playing in the parks. So I guess it was just really part of my childhood growing up. So when I decided to become a primary school teacher, which was a few careers on, I went into primary teaching a bit later. I decided that I wanted to give the same experiences that I had uh to the children that I was teaching. And I noticed in kind of modern life and modern education, children weren't necessarily getting those experiences outside of the school. So I just thought, well, if I could try and give them some of those experiences myself. Yeah, so I've been I started working in Scotland, started my journey teaching there, and then I worked in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, and now I've working in the Netherlands. And while I was in the Netherlands, I actually decided to do my MSc in outdoor education. I'd initially done the diploma part in 2010, but then I decided to do the master's, and that was what caught me really going uh here, and that's what led me to work as an outdoor learning specialist at my school. So I worked as an outdoor learning specialist for three years, and then I've gone back into the classroom again and taken on a different role, and but I still do outdoor learning with my class um on a regular basis. So yeah, it's just something that I really enjoy, and it's something that I see the children enjoy, and it really comes from my growing up and having that freedom as a child, and then being outside and trying to give the same experiences to my kids that I'm teaching.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

That's wonderful, and we see that so many times with the guests that we have on here have mentioned that it was their own childhood that brought them to their career later in life. Callum, just to move on though, what was the particular moment in your career where you kind of realized that outdoor learning wasn't just about an enrichment, about an add-on, but should be really core and central to your own pedagogy?

SPEAKER_00 4:14

I think it's me just naturally doing it with my own class and just seeing the impact it had on the children that I was teaching. I felt that it just gave them something different. Uh just gave them a bit of freedom, movement, and the ability to get outside and get some fresh air and get a break from the classroom. But also that was what it was initially for me, just to get them outside, and then it came more about the content, how how I could use that outdoor environment to actually stretch their learning in the classroom and complement it. And also, I think then it became about sustainability for me as well, and nature, and getting children to connect and love nature because naturally I find a lot of the children are really inquisitive, and it doesn't take a lot for me to get them interested. I think it was just a process of giving them something different to begin with, and then seeing how it could be used as a teaching tool really effectively to help with the classroom learning, and then also seeing the importance of the nature connection aspect, and I think that to me that became the most important part that children get that opportunity because it ticks on many boxes. I believe it is quite fundamental in the process of the child's education.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think one of those things that we see a lot whenever we take the kids outside is how natural it becomes for them. It takes very little time for a child outside to begin to engage with the natural world, uh, whether that's climbing a tree or following an ant along the ground or a woodland animal in a European context as well, it very quickly it becomes about intrigue and interest for them, and they get really excited by that. So I completely agree with everything you're saying. Now, you've mentioned, Calum, about the curriculum-length outdoor learning. What does that actually look like in practice for you in as part of your day? How does how does getting those kids outdoors look?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Well, that's a good question. I at the beginning I found it actually quite difficult to to make the links, and I think it was just for me uh trial and error. It was giving myself the space initially to just try different things that worked. For example, I would set up a big lesson uh that had all the curricular points in it, and it was going to be this amazing experience uh for the children, and they were like, This is this isn't good. And I'm like, But I put so much effort into planning this amazing lesson for you. Why do you not understand? Why do you not like it? And then as I got more experienced about doing it, I realized that I was building my skill set and I was becoming more, but more importantly, I was becoming more relaxed about it. So I I started to realize that I didn't really need to go out with much, but I just had to have good questioning skills and make it the experience exciting for them by building like stories and narratives and making it interesting. That was the thing that I found was the most important. Um, but actually, all the resources and all the pre-planning and all the thought about how it was all gonna go didn't necessarily make it a good experience, it was more to do with my energy, and it was more to do with my ability to make it exciting for storytelling and my ability to be relaxed during the experience and just let it happen. And I think that comes with experience, and it also comes with the ability to be in a position where you're trialing things. Um, and I did that for a long time. I used to trial lessons and I eventually got to a point where I had some good solid curriculum lessons, but it took, I think it took maybe a year or so just to kind of build them and develop them and make them good. And I think that's really important for for teachers is to be given the space to to try things and be supported with that because that's how you get better at things, and that's how um you develop a program, really. It's just start off with an idea and you you keep trying things until you until it becomes better.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

That's amazing, and what a thorough answer as well. I think that's that's a great way. And you're definitely echoing some of the sentiments of other people that we've had in the podcast, particularly uh Emma Wilson and Jeff Maury, who are also two classroom-based teachers, but uh have incorporated that kind of outdoor learning pedagogy into their practice as well. But you touch on so many of the uh similar points. It's great to hear where those common missteps can be, especially as we start and trying to find uh the right cadence to your teaching in that moment. So, Callum, with that being said, um what are some of the common misconceptions you see teachers having about taking learning outside the classroom?

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Yeah, I think for me and what I've discovered, it doesn't need to be complicated and it doesn't need to be difficult, and it can be simple, and sometimes the less is more, and the the most simple ideas that I have are the most sometimes the most effective. So it could just be a case of uh setting up a scavenger hunt or it could be just getting the bug kits out and just going for into the playground. Um I think the misconception is it takes a lot of preparation and it's it's hard work and it's extra, and I do get that, but what I found is that because like it's something that I've done over and over, I actually found it very relaxing to teach outdoors now, and it's the most c I've it's now become my comfortable place because I've done it for a while now, and actually you get to a point where it's like, oh this is nice, this is this is relaxing. Um I'm outside, kids are running about, they're just engaged in the lesson, and um that's that's the point, that's the sweet spot that you get to when you allow yourself to make mistakes at the beginning and go on that journey, you finally get to a point where it's comfortable, you know, it becomes more natural, and it but teachers know that because like it's like when you start teaching math, for example, uh you know, in your probation year, you're just like, I don't even know how to teach math, it's it's really difficult, but you get better at it. So all all teachers have these things where they really get to a comfortable point as something they teach because that's what you know, that's something that they've invested in, and it's the same with teaching outdoors, it's you know, it can become comfortable and you can really see the benefit.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

That's that's wonderful, and I think we often talk about the idea of professional development within uh education and within a lot of career spaces now, but there's that also that idea of personal development and allowing ourselves to grow in a space, you know, get comfortable being outside, get comfortable with trying something different or something new as well. I think it can be really key to to how we develop within our profession by giving ourselves the time and the space to develop ourselves personally as well. Callan, talking about personal development, one of the things that you've been a big supporter of and a big uh proponent for is that idea of inclusion, neurodiversity, and belonging within an outdoor context. You've written online and posted a lot quite recently about how outdoor spaces can particularly be more supportive for neurodivergent learners and teachers. Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_00 12:23

I think it's for me it's to do if if children are in the class all day. It's just it's an overstimulating environment. And it's it's just really important for them to to step out of that. For me, break time and lunch time maybe isn't enough for for them. So I just feel it's important to to go outside and get that breathing time, it allows some space. It c they have the choice there, it they don't have to be bunched up together, they can they can go off somewhere and do something quietly or they can have time to themselves, they can just sit in peace for a little while. It gives them the flexibility to just get some time to themselves, and you know, I I've worked with lots of children new neurodiversity, and I think this is really important as well. Not all children naturally like working outdoors as well, so I just wanted to make that point. I think when you see on LinkedIn and you see blogs, it's it's often like the general statement that all children like being outdoors. It's it's not actually the case, but what happens is that you just have to find out what it is that they don't like about it. So, for example, I used to take children on walks to the forest as part of my role um in the first year of being an outdoor learning specialist. And uh I had this autistic child and he used to really not like it when I came into the class. And I'd be like, Well, why why don't you like it? Like neurodiverse children, they love working outdoors. I've read it online, you know. It's and it was we were about three sessions in, and then he finally told me what the reason was that he didn't like the outdoor lessons, and it was because he didn't want to hold hands on the way to the forest, because I used to initially say, Oh, you need to hold hands with each other, and they were a younger class, and he said, I just don't like holding hands with people, so anytime you come, you make me hold hands with somebody else, and it makes me not want to do the outdoor lesson. I like the lesson, but I just don't like holding hands with other people, and that little conversation that I had that child, and I was like, Well, you don't have to hold hands with them then. But that's the thing I think we expect sometimes as teachers that they're gonna love your lesson and they're gonna really this is gonna be great for them, but you also have to understand that all children are individuals, and especially neurodiverse children, they might have sensory needs. So when working outside with them, in order to make it inclusive, you have to treat them all individually and understand what it is that's the block for them or the challenge if they're not enjoying it. Because sometimes it isn't what you think it is, it's maybe it's not they don't like you, which is the automatically sometimes what teachers think, oh they just don't like me. Why don't they like me? I'm trying so hard. Or they don't like the activity. It can be some it could be a sensory need. So yeah, it's great for neurodiverse children in my experience, but you also have to make sure that you you make sure that you take their needs into account and understand anything that might be difficult for them in this kind of this new way of learning that maybe they need to get used to as well. So in my so once they get going, um I think most of them enjoy it, but you also have to understand their individual needs as well.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Oh, that's amazing. I had lots of questions uh around this topic, but I think you you've answered so many of them there in one hit. What I just would like to ask, pulling on that a little bit more, is what advice then would you give to leaders who want to design outdoor learning with the inclusion piece being at the center rather than as being a tag-on afterthought?

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Um I think if you want to take inclusion seriously, you need to know each individual child. It's it's not so much about making a strategy, it's about doing something and then asking the children if this fulfills their needs. It's listening to them. So my advice would be actually investing time and listening and observing the children working in that environment and seeing if it suits them. You don't know until you try something, but I think it's just being really aware of the needs of the children and taking them seriously, and because it might be something quite small to you in your head that's stopping them or worrying them or scaring them, but it could be something really big for them. I you know, for example, insects. I've got a lot of children that I had children that were terrified of insects, and I had a mum that came to me and spoke to me and said, Oh, my son really likes you, you're really nice, but he just doesn't like when you come because he's really scared of insects. And you made him last time go on an insect hunt, and I was like, Oh yeah. He he didn't now that I think about it, he did look a bit, but his behavior came across as like being defiant and I'm not doing this task, but what was inside was a fear, you know. You really have to invest in the time of observing and listening and taking these things seriously and just and then creating environments so each child has uh the experience that they need and it's accessible as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

With that then, there's a obviously there's a difference between wants and needs, and how a big part of what we do within outdoor education is allowing students to push their boundaries and get more comfortable with things that we might not be comfortable with at the beginning. How was it you approach that with that kid who had the fear of insects? Because I know it's not a unique thing. Many of the students that I deal with and lots of our listeners will deal with as well, is there's a fear of the natural world. But what we want to try and do is get the students to a space where they can respect it without necessarily having fear of something that really doesn't need to have too much fear attached to it.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Do you mind if I kind of go back a little bit into my my childhood a little bit for this? Because this is quite important. Uh absolutely. Yeah, so in Britain, um outdoor education for me was going to a residential centre like once a year. Um I think well, in I think I did it in year, sorry, the last year school. So that was outdoor education, that was mainly the outdoor education was a residential setting. So um now I've done a lot of rock climbing now, and I've climbed mountains and I've done all sorts of things in my later life, um, but it took me quite a long time to get comfortable doing these things. Honestly, I didn't really feel comfortable with the outdoor activities until I was probably in my twenties. But when I was a child going to the residential centre, I was terrified of all these different activities. But the culture then was that if you didn't do it, then your friends would probably be making fun of you or something like that. And the instructors, the culture back then was just get up, just go, and they're shouting at you, and you're hanging from the rock, and they keep shouting at you, and you're shaking and you can't move, and all your friends are like clapping and chanting, and you're just like, Oh my goodness, this is terrible because like I grew up neurodiverse, and you know, I've I got I eventually got an ADHD diagnosis when I was older, but I had I d I definitely had like I had to develop my motor skills. I definitely didn't find it easier doing these kind of physical activities. I just wasn't naturally good at it, so I used to be terrified about these things. But this is the interesting part. When I started teaching outdoor education, I did take that mentality into it a little bit because that's what I thought it was about building character and making children resilient by getting to do things that they found difficult because that was kind of the British culture and that's how I was brought up. But that's what I took into it initially. So can I be honest with you when that child says, I don't, you know, I don't really want to do this activity. I was like, Oh, just do it. Come on, just do it, you'll be fine. And then as I as I developed as a teacher, I realized that was not the right way to be. But it was so ingrained in my head that that's what we do with kids. We were trying to build character, we're trying to make them strong, and by doing things that might they might not necessarily like, that it took a while for me to get rid of that value and realise it wasn't right. And actually now, if that child came up to you and said, I don't like it, I'd be like, Oh, yeah, that's okay. Like, let's find a that you don't have to do it. You can do this, let's find something else for you to do. That's let's some find something just as meaningful. Some of you tell me what you want to do now, and then we can come up with a plan. That's what I do now. But I think um some teachers might still have that mentality based on their the way that they were schooled and also the way of they experienced outdoor education. And I think that's uh that's not how we should do it.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Special thanks to our sponsors at Office who support. Outdoor learning and professional collaboration across Asia and beyond. Don't forget to sign up for the Offseas 2026 conference hosted at Garden International School in Kuala Lumpur, where educators, adventurers, and changemakers come together to share ideas, connect, and shape the future of outdoor and experiential education in the region. What about then just to pick on that and play devil's advocate? We have so many times where a student will present as not wanting to engage. I've certainly been there on the rock climbing wall, you know, in my earlier years as an instructor, doing the same thing, going through the same processes and supporting. But we do see a lot of times where a student on a rock climbing wall or in the forest or in the jungle initially presents as being hesitant, and that comes across as an obvious challenge for them. Another great one, and I spoke about it before on the podcast, is having students sit down in the dirt. Okay, and again, we're not talking about people with diagnosis of sensory issues. This is just discomfort. I don't want to sit in the dirt, I don't want to climb the wall because it's discomfort. I don't want to hold the bug because of a preconceived societal fear. Where do you draw the line then between approaching the learner where they are and giving the space for autonomy and also fulfilling our role in trying to help them grow through engaging with these experiences?

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Yeah, it's a good question. I think for me it's just knowing the child. I think we have to have self-trust as a teacher as well. Wait, you build up years of experience and you have these conversations with children and you come across the experience hundreds of different things every day. And you do develop a bit of a database and an understanding. I think trust yourself to make a good choice about it. You know when you're pushing somebody too hard, and then just naturally take a step back and you know when a child needs to be pushed. As a teacher, I'm in the classroom as well, teaching outdoors, and I know when a child is just like, I'm not gonna do this work because I can't be bothered doing this work. Because, like, I was the same as a child. I don't teacher would give me work and I'd be like, Well, I don't really want to do it. So, yeah, of course. Like, and then I have to push them, and then but I know them, I've built that relationship with them, so I know what I need to do in order to get them to do what they need to do. Um, but that comes from experience of under knowing that child and understanding that child, and I guess that can be a bit difficult. I remember when I was doing outdoor learning, I sometimes I'd have the class for the first time ever. I've never met them before. And that was difficult because you had a whole class and you take them on this trip to the forest, you'd never met the children before. So it can be difficult. So you don't really know the children. But once you do, I think if you do and you have a relationship with them, and that's really important, and they trust you, then you can then be like, right, you can do it. Right. But they need to trust you and and uh have that relationship with you in order to feel safe to do that, to know that you're that you're you're encouraging them for the right reasons and you can see that they can do it. So I think it's about communication, having that conversation with child, what what it is like, kind of just taking the time to speak to them about it and trying to invest time in them. I think that's it's just communication at the end of the day, and just being able to trust as a teacher that you've come across all these situations many times and you know, you know when to push your child and when not to push your child. But I think the important part is for me is that I do all these things now. I love wow, I love going rock climbing, I love going up mountains, I love doing these things. But because I got pushed so hard as a child, I didn't want to do it for a long time. And then I went on my own when I was ready to do these things, I was on my own development path. I then have succeeded at these things because I did it my own time, and that's that was what was important to me. So it's a balance, isn't it? You know, it is a balance.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

I think you're really resonating with again another conversation that we've had in the podcast with Nick Haywood. He talked a lot about understanding the culture, uh, understanding the vibe of the classroom and the space that you're entering into, understanding the people that you're working with and the learners that you've got as well, and knowing that before teaching the content. And I think there's a lot of validity in what you're saying in terms of meeting the learner where they are and understanding the needs of them at that moment, when to push a little harder and when to pull back and give them space. Is and that's the key to a good teacher, right? Being able to identify those moments.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Yeah, and I think it's also about not having a blanket approach. As you get become a more experienced teacher, you have different approaches for different children. Some children might just need a bit of sense of humor, a joke, you know, just to make them laugh, and that's enough to kind of get them up. Some of them might need a push because some of the children actually want you to show that you care through like pushing them to like saying you can do it, you can, like they want that, and some other children don't. So it's just there everybody is motivated in a different way, and I think that's the important thing for teachers is that they don't necessarily have this blanket approach for each child in that moment. Children might need different things in order to motivate them to do things, and sometimes they just don't want to do it, and that's okay as well, in my opinion. I think that's okay, and the cultural thing's really important as well, Rob, because I've got an international classroom, I've got children from all over the world, and this is another point that's really important. I've got children that live in countries where if they go into the forest, they can come across things that are dangerous, and insects can be dangerous in their country. So when I'm taking them to the forest and I'm saying, right, you can go and pick up that insect, it's okay. And they're like, No. And then I'm like, nah, it's fine. It's it's we're in the Netherlands, like there's literally nothing here that can harm you, nothing at all. And then you realize they come from a country where they're really taught not to do that, and you have to respect that, and you have to respect that people are coming from different places and they have different teaching about going into the forest or going outdoors, they might be told by their parents that it's dangerous because it might actually be dangerous. So you also have to take that into account when you're doing that and listen, and it's it's about cultural inclusion as well. We talked about neurodiverse inclusion, but cultural is really important. What is their culture telling them about the outdoors?

SPEAKER_01 29:29

I totally get that. As someone who is presently living and working in Thailand and having received my fair share of bites and stings from various things out there, I I get that. Uh, that's not to put anybody off going to the jungle. Most of the times you go out there and you need to be looking real hard before you get bit or stung by something, but I maybe put myself in those spaces more than more than most would. Just to build on that component of culture and shifting now to away from the students but to the teacher, what do you see as holding teachers back from getting outside more regularly?

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Well, I think this is the important part of when I was an outdoor learning specialist was being a classroom teacher first, because it really made me understand coming in as an outdoor specialist without the classroom experience. I might have might have found it difficult with maybe how I was uh communicated to, or maybe the teacher wasn't really interested in what I'm doing, and I might have found that difficult. But as a classroom teacher, I have a I really understand the way why teachers are the way they are, and that understanding is really important. I know a lot of people who do a lot of hours and work really hard in my context, in my international school, I'm surrounded by amazing teachers, like really they work so hard, they work long hours, and they really try. They might not value outdoor learning, but because maybe their thing that they value and the thing that they put their time into is like literacy, that might be their thing. So I think it's just an understanding that all teachers have like different passions and loves, and they tend to invest in that one thing that they really care about the most, because you can't do everything. So it's just having that understanding, and then if you want to try and encourage the teachers to do outdoor learning, it's making it as simple as possible in the sense of just explaining it doesn't have to be complicated, it doesn't have to be difficult, but these are the benefits to your students if you do it. But also, this is a benefit for you. I think that's the problem is that when I get training, it's it and it should be all about the kids because that's where we're teachers, we really care about the students, but also we should be like, this is why it's good for you as a teacher. I think a lot sometimes when I go to training, it kind of kind of makes it sound something like something it's difficult, but it doesn't have to be difficult, and that's the hope that's what I'm trying to say. It can be let's make it accessible and make it like easy and get teachers started by it just making it simple for them, I think. That's what I would say.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Super. And how important then do you feel that the leadership buy-in from the school is whenever you're and trying to embed that outdoor learning across the entire school?

SPEAKER_00 32:50

So I see it as like a bottom-up, top-down thing. So you've got you you kind of you need your passionate teachers who care about it to drive it. And then you need the management to be support because um it needs to be uh I mean, if it's the work, it has to be embedded in the culture of the school, and it has to be a focus as well, because you can only have so many focuses in the school, and I think it's successful when a school has like, you know, a focus or like uh a specific thing that they they want to do. Whenever it's been outdoor learning's been the focus of of my school, then that's made it a lot easier for me. And we've had like times where they really invested in it, and then we've had times where we haven't, because they've kind of moved more towards AI training, technology training. So it's just I think it the really and I have been to schools. Like I went to the International School of Düsseldorf, which is like a a Mecca, it's like it's a brilliant. Uh I did a conference there, like I was in June. They have a culture of outdoor learning there, they have a system, they they've invested in it, and it works. Not all schools have the that those resources, and I understand, and they maybe don't have a little forest in their school either, but that doesn't mean that doesn't have to be outdoor learning, it could be stuff in the playground, it could be like making fun stories and taking children outside. It can be whatever you want it to be. Not thinking as big as those schools that have all the resources and the forests and things like that in their school is what your school can do, but for it to work, the management team needs to make it a priority and support those passionate teachers because passion is important, but you can you can get tired quickly if you're you know you're just kind of pushing it all the time, and you know, you need the support as well.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

I totally agree in that. I think that you probably said it best with the opening of that was it has to be bottom up and top down at the same time to try and find uh a little bit of uh middle ground there. So just thinking about that small shifts to create greater systemic impact. You share a lot of ideas uh through your platform on the fresh air teacher. Maybe you could give us a little introduction to what the fresh air teacher is and why the practicality piece is so important in this space.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Yeah, so I started Fresh Air Teacher two years ago. It actually started because I started writing a blog for my school. So I set up a just very basic WordPress site and um I just blog about what I was doing at the school so that the teachers could have a look and then replicate my ideas, but also I used it as a platform to share the things that they were doing, champion if they did outdoor learning, then I post on it so that the whole school could see. And I think that was really important for me because they were teachers doing outdoor learning, but nobody knew. So it was about championing those individuals who were already doing it, and then that led into me developing my WordPress skills uh over a number of years, and then creating this new website platform, Fresh Air Teacher, which was more about like re- out reaching out with my own school, and it was about just um I took a lot of the I took a lot of the evidence-based research that I did for my masters and I put them into blogs and then combined that with my experience because like I personally feel that there's a lot of information out there, but it's not evidence-based. And for me, like in an era where people are posting things to maybe sometimes it's like more about getting clicks and stuff like that, and for me it was really important that that my ideas are evidence-based. So I took the theory and the practice and made them into blogs, and then that also supports the ideas that I do and post on fresh year teacher, so it all comes from evidence and experience, and then I share that that worked because all ultimately I did a lot of ideas to begin with, they didn't work, and then I fine-tuned it into things that I found were effective, and then at that point I felt right, these lessons work, they're easy, they don't have many resources, some of them don't need really any resources that share these with other teachers because they might be able to replicate them in their context, and that's really important for me because it's lovely to go to a school that is well resourced, but that is not the reality for a lot of schools, so it's about providing things for teachers that they can do that they don't necessarily have to have a lot of resources for, and that's the thing that I'm really passionate about, it's making it accessible and making it achievable for other teachers. So that's what I try to do through the platform. So I'm just developing that at the moment. I post a lot on LinkedIn, uh I've got an Instagram account, and I'm also like posting a lot in Fresh Air Teacher, and it's just it's just something that I love to do. Um, and I love people when people contact me and say, let's have a chat about it, and uh anybody who wants to reach out to me, uh please do, um, so they can uh to have a chat with you. Uh that'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

That's excellent. So just as we come to the end of our chat here today, Calum, if you could leave the listeners with just one simple shift they could make tomorrow, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Yeah, I think less is more a lot of the time, invest in creating stories around your lessons and getting children involved through that way, and then you don't have to worry so much about resources because you've already got them off the hook, tell stories around it, and also uh it's good for you. And and as teachers, it's a hard job. So, what I'm saying to you is in my personal experience, it's good for me as well as my students, so you need to look after yourself as a teacher as well.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Wonderful, Calum. Thank you very much for your honesty, for sharing your ideas. Your work reminds us that learning doesn't need to be elaborate for it to be powerful, it just needs to be intentional. When we move learning beyond four walls, we're not just changing the location, but we're often changing the dynamics of our relationships, confidence, and the possibility for our young learners. For our listeners, you'll find links to Fresh Air Teacher and Callum's work in the show notes. And as always, if you've enjoyed today's conversation, please like and subscribe to share the outdoor education podcast with even more people who care about outdoor learning. Thank you. Special thanks to Gus Merkel for today's show production. You'll find all the details and links in the show notes. And if you've enjoyed today's conversation, please like, subscribe, and share the outdoor education podcast to help us reach even more people who care about outdoor and experiential learning.