Kathy Ireland's Pro-Life Turning Point: What One Ultrasound Changed Forever

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In this powerful Part Two with Kathy Ireland and her incredible mom Barbara, we dive even deeper into the journey God has had them both on — and I honestly was not prepared for how much this conversation would move me. We talk about what it truly means to be pro-life, how Barbara's prayer life has shaped not only her family but women around the world, and how Kathy went from being pro-choice to becoming one of the most fearless voices for the unborn — all because of what science revealed and what God's Word confirmed. Barbara's faithfulness to show up at Planned Parenthood, walk door-to-door, and pray on her knees every single morning is one of the most convicting and beautiful things I've ever witnessed.

Kathy opens up about the painful season that led to the launch of Kathy Ireland Brands — and what it looks like to rebuild with God as your only strategy. She shares the verse that carried her through it all: Joel 2:25, "I will restore the years the locusts have eaten." Whether you're in a season of loss, betrayal, or uncertainty, this part of our conversation will remind you that God's redemption is always bigger than what the enemy had planned. We also get into the surprising world of commercial lobster fishing — yes, Kathy has been Greg's first mate out on the open water — and the life lessons she's brought back to shore about doing hard things through Christ.

We close with wisdom for every generation: Barbara's simple charge to see a need and do something about it, Kathy's JOY principle (Jesus, Others, You), and the importance of learning to say no to good things so God can lead you to great things. Whether you're just starting out or navigating a hard season, I believe this episode will encourage you deeply. Don't miss Part One if you haven't seen it, and please share this with someone who needs to hear it today.

Chapters:
00:00 — Barbara's Ultrasound Moment That Changed Her View on Life
04:29 — Kathy's Bible Study Goes Global Through Zoom and the Holy Spirit
08:59 — Barbara's Pro-Life Activism and Kathy's Journey to Conviction
13:28 — What Planned Parenthood Told Kathy — And Why It Backfired
17:58 — Trusting God Through Betrayal: The Rebirth of Kathy Ireland Brands
22:27 — New Fragrances, Nonprofits, and Meaningful Work That Matters
26:57 — Joel 2:25: God Restores the Years the Locusts Have Eaten
31:26 — Life Lessons From the Lobster Boat: Faith on the Open Water
35:56 — Barbara's Million-Dollar Walk for the Cure and Seeing a Need
40:25 — JOY, Boundaries, Legacy, and Words of Wisdom for Every Generation

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

And then I saw the ultrasound. Actually I saw the ultrasound with Kathy's um I believe that it was a real human being before then, but then it really hit home when I saw the ultrasound with. And it was so clear and so beautiful. And I think if anybody could see an ultrasound, uh, they would never want to have anything to do with abortion.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

It's a trusted voice, delivering uncompromised truth, shining a light on heroes who are boldly fulfilling their destiny by walking in their true identity. Here's your host, Naomi Van White.

SPEAKER_05 0:37

Welcome to today's show. I'm so honored to have part two with Kathy Ireland and her amazing mom, Barbara Ireland. So let's just get right into it and thank you guys for coming back into the studio. Um, if you guys miss part one, they must go back and watch watch part one. But um, I'm so excited for this second episode. I think it's gonna just be that much more um encouraging to our audience to just see and hear God's faithfulness of what he's done in your lives and the journey that he's had you on. Um, but Barbara, I wanted just to thank you for your prayers because a couple years ago I decided to start a prayer team to pray for trusted voice and the ministry that God was calling me to. And I thought of you because, as we said in the first show, you were praying for me to get pregnant with my first daughter, I think, actually. Yes. So like 14, 15 years ago, and your prayers were answered double because I had two girls then. So I was just so honored when you said you would be part of my prayer team and doubly honored, just shocking when you told me you prayed daily for me, because that is such a commitment, and nothing I would ever have asked of you.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Oh, you saw my prayer chair, right? I saw your prayer chair. And I get up in the morning and I have my coffee and I do my reading from the Old and the New Testament, and then I have my prayer time, you know, for my family, for friends, and you're one of the three special friends that I pray for each morning. Uh, and you were so wise, Naomi, to ask for people to pray for you because look what God has done in your life, you know, look where he's brought you here, and and uh he hears our prayers, you know. A lot of times we think he doesn't, but boy, he really does hear our prayers. To God of the glory.

SPEAKER_05 2:26

Yeah. Well, you just you brought me to tears when you told me how faithful you pray for me. So I feel so, so blessed. Yeah, just thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

It's an honor to pray for you and to see what God's doing in your life.

SPEAKER_05 2:39

Well, and you and Kathy, you're such an amazing prayer warrior.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

She is, yeah, she is and Bible study leader.

unknown 2:47

Right.

SPEAKER_05 2:47

Tell us, tell us about that. Maybe that's a great place to start because Kathy has an online Bible study that is reaching the world, really. You have women, I mean, I've run into women in all parts of the country when I'm traveling, and they'll go, Oh, you live in Santa Barbara? Are you part of Kathy Ireland's Bible study? And I'm like, Well, how do you know about Kathy Ireland's Bible study? You're living like in other parts of the country, in other parts of the world. And but Barbara, you played a part in that starting. Mom started it. Right?

SPEAKER_02 3:18

It's when my husband passed away. And I just told my girls, I said, Why don't we get together and have a Bible study every week? And I thought it would just be Kathy and Mary and Cynthia and myself. And so then we, you know, invited uh Aunt Dorothy came, and then Lovita and some friends came, and we'd have it in our living room. Right. You know, we'd sit around the living room and do the Bible study. And Kathy always prepared the study, and uh, and uh then we would go through the Bible and and it was beautiful, it was a beautiful time, right? And then then she had to change it to Zoom when COVID happened.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

So yeah, yeah, Greg got it, uh my husband early on, um, bad. So he had to be isolated. That's when everybody was, nobody knew, you know, you had to like wipe down the groceries right, right. Um but so we didn't want to miss the Bible study. Right. So we just did it by Zoom, and then mom said, Oh, well, if we do it by Zoom, then Suzanne, who introduced her to Jesus, could um could join in from New Mexico. God's just so amazing. He's brought, I mean, it's not something that we like put out there, but anybody's included can be included. Right. And so people ask, oh, can my sisters, cousins, you know, whatever. It's right, of course, yes. So there's women in the study. We don't know, we haven't met them personally. Wow. Um, and it's interesting. What when we were at that event in uh in Tennessee, I met like three women I'd never seen before from our Bible study. Oh, that's so so good. So good. I love how he connects people and his word. I mean, I I got saved from the word that mom put in my suitcase. And so to be able to um to share that with um with others and enjoy teaching about the Holy Spirit. I mean, you need the word and the Holy Spirit and just to keep us just abiding in Him and growing.

SPEAKER_05 5:23

Well, your studies are amazing, and you you pray and you just you have it's not just a study, but you have the Holy Spirit and you have built a whole community, really. And these women are all getting to know each other and pray for each other and support each other, and it's it's really, really beautiful. It's beautiful to see what God's doing. How and when do you have time to prepare for this, Kathy? Do you just like get up in the middle of the night and go, okay?

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Oh, God is good, he God is good. I I did take a hiatus. Um, I worked with Greg, who he was a 40-year ER physician, and he's been a commercial fisherman for the past 20 years. And so I got to do his first mate for lobster this last season. And I'm keeping my license, but the hardest thing about um serving as crew on on a boat is the schedule. And I miss the Bible study so much, and so because you're out on the boat, yeah, and and it's weather dependent, so it's like the weather changes you know on a dime, and you have to be prepared to go when the weather, when you get a break in the weather. So um I'm grateful to get back into it. But God is good, he expands our time. And when you have it's such, I mean, it's like who am I? Of course, I'm not qualified, but God is so good, his word is so perfect. But recognizing how much he loves these women and how important his word is, and it's like it's like, oh my goodness, what a privilege. And um he's so good. He's so faithful.

SPEAKER_05 6:59

Well, it's just beautiful to see how the Lord has just used you, both of you, in so many people's lives. You won't know till heaven all the impact that your Bible studies and your prayers have made. So it's thanks for being so faithful.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Well, thank you, Naomi. You are such a champion.

SPEAKER_05 7:18

I love to get on your stuff.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

You're such a champion for so many reasons. But you're something that really stands out is your fight for kids. You are just a champion warrior, and we're so grateful.

SPEAKER_05 7:34

So thank you for that. Well, you're you are such a champion for kids and for the the unborn. I think that's one of the first things that I noticed about both of you was we're very pro-life, and you are both so pro-life and taking a stand and having such a voice for the unborn. Have you guys always been passionate about the unborn?

SPEAKER_02 7:57

No. Not really, no. It took me a while because growing up as I did, I didn't think I just kind of thought it was a group of selves. I didn't think it was and then I saw the ultrasound. Actually, I saw the ultrasound with Kathy's um, I believed that it was a real human being before then, but then it really hit home when I saw the ultrasound of growing it was and it was so clear and so beautiful. And I think if anybody could see an ultrasound, uh, they would never want to have anything to do with abortion. You know, it's it's taking a life, and you know, and and that's a a life that God has given us and we're made in his image, and how anybody can destroy that, you know, God has a purpose for every life, no matter if they're deformed or defective or you know, have special needs, God has a purpose for their lives, you know. That's so true. So um, yeah, it really hit home. And so I do what I can for network medical here in town. And and um, you know, we pray at the Planned Parenthood and and uh just really want to get the word out that that is. You are amazing, baby.

SPEAKER_05 9:11

You are amazing. Barbara is she prays at Planned Parenthood, you're with the network medical, you walk the streets campaigning. I remember running into you walking and you're going door to door campaigning. I mean, if I can hope to be like you.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

I was at the grocery store one night and it was pretty late. And I was like, mom, where where are you? And she's like, oh, I forgot one neighborhood I know.

SPEAKER_05 9:39

You are you are at every event, every, you know, we just saw each other at the courthouse for rededicating America, the 250th, and there both of you are just praying, and you're both so committed to our nation and first and foremost to the Lord. And you put faith, you put action into your faith.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Yeah, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if there were somebody that was elected and I didn't do something to make sure the right person was in office. You know, I mean, we have to do what we can while we can. And I just turned 85 and I figure, you know, I've got a few more years I can I can walk a little bit still.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

So I wouldn't have to be a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

I'm trying to keep up with you, ma'am. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_05 10:24

I'll keep going while I can. You are so strong. Well, well, the Lord is your strength.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

He is, yes, my strength. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:30

So, Kathy, when did you become pro-life and become such an advocate? I remember being with you actually in DC. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

At um a seat at the table with um Marjorie Danisfeld and um yeah, at the White House at yeah, well, so I you know, I became a Christian at 18, but a baby Christian, I hadn't read the whole Bible, so I didn't know what God said about when life begins. And it was actually science that really convinced me. I was back when I modeled, I'm not an actress, got the movies to prove it, but it paid the bills sometimes. And I had a audition for a movie of the week. And I was told that it was um it was about the life and the pro-choice um, you know, yeah debate argument. Yes, but that it didn't take sides, that it was just open and it presented it. But I read the script and it was clearly had a pro-choice slant because the pro-life characters were unattractive and crazy. But for me, where I was in my baby steps as a Christian, that was fine. I had just gotten to the point where I thought, okay, Lord, I'm not going to accept any parts that I think wouldn't glorify you. But I thought being pro-choice was because, of course, we love women. And I thought that was, you know, I thought it was the good choice of the right thing. I'm driving to the audition and I there was traffic, so I had time to think. I said, time to think. I was like, I never really thought about this before. I get there, there's all these actors, and I'm gonna have more time to think. And it's my turn, and I go in, and there's all these producers there, and one of them said, you know, this is a very important film for women. You are pro-choice, aren't you? And it was like, as the yes came out of my mouth, I just knew like I'm on the fence, which is like the worst place. I choked on the audition, went home, went through Greg's being an ER doctor, I went through all the medical books that we had in the house, and I just started reading. And it was like, oh, at the moment of conception, a new life comes into being. The whole genetic blueprint is there. The sex is determined, the fingerprint, the blood type. And this life grows, but like what kind of life is it? According to the law of biogenesis, all life comes from pre-existing life. Therefore, human beings only reproduce human beings. Right. So I call Planned Parenthood because I wanted to know, like, I didn't want to be pro-life. And I was like, all right, what is your best argument for being pro-toys? Planned Parenthood came to my high school when I was 16 and told us we could have abortions, and our parents would never need to know. And that was welcome back then. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 13:26

Yes. Check out our cute merch line, all purchases help support our ministry and this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

And so that's where those seeds of pro-choice started. And so I said, What's your best argument? And I was told, Oh, it's just a clump of cells. And if you get it early enough, it doesn't look like a baby. And even at that tiny stage of revelation, I was like, is that the best you've got? It's like, I mean, no, it we're all clumps of cells. And uh the unborn doesn't look like a baby, the way a baby doesn't look like a teenager or a senior citizen. But the unborn looks exactly the way human beings are supposed to look at that stage of development. So I showed it to my husband, who was also pro-choice, until he was like, Oh, wow. How did I miss this? I had my nose in these books, like, how did I miss it? And mom, you were talking about praying in front of Planned Parenthood. Mom actually got shoved by a man for praying on the sidewalk here in town. Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, it's that people are so wrong. It's um, but she's fearless. Yeah. And um, and we had a little dilemma. We were talking about Bible study, right? Because um they uh the the death of babies in Santa Barbara is changed the day, and it's Thursdays for the abortions, and so there's this wonderful group called Love Life. Yes, love life. And um amazing, amazing work. So many women in our study um are very involved in love life, including mom, Zoe, so many others. And um, so it's like, what are we gonna do? Because we didn't want to change the day of Bible studies for the different schedules. So the ladies on the front line would call in while we were having prayer time, and so we would, whatever we were praying for, like, okay, somebody's driving in, we need to pray for them. And what's been so beautiful is the love of these women that it's not about the the mother against the baby, but it's loving them both. And these Bible study ladies, taking these women, driving them to network medical where they can get all the care they need, where they can get the ultrasounds, where they're given baby gifts and baby showers, and taking them to church and being at the births. It's just been such a beautiful, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:59

That's it's truly a beautiful to see how God has allowed your Bible study to be on the same day. It's almost like you know, okay, Lord. So I didn't realize that Thursdays is the day of death at the Planned Parenthood. Oh, but your women are getting to pray and love those women and the babies. Yeah. And you are great miracles. Yeah, yes. That's a beautiful story how the Lord used science to show you it and gray.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

When I finally read, it was like, you know, just so so so bittersweet that I had. I mean, I would already knew what what, but but to actually read what God says about life and when it begins.

unknown 16:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 16:43

It's amazing. Well, thank you both for being such a strong advocate for life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Well, I just think it's so important too, just to read the word and see what God says in the word. It's so clear, it's so clear when you say it. I mean, one of the first things I saw was you don't pray in repetition, you know, and and uh and also that uh you know, there's one one, there's only Jesus to God. There's only one mediator between me and Christ. And it's Jesus Christ. And so, you know, you don't have to go to confession and do things like right and go straight to Jesus. Pray where I am.

SPEAKER_05 17:20

So well, he's been your rock. We talked on the last show of some of the darker seasons that you've been through, some amazing seasons, but some hard times. And I'm so excited to just have you on the show today and see your faith and how your heart has just remained so soft in spite of hard times and betrayal, and how you've launched a new brand, Kathy Ireland brands, and it's it's like a rebirth. Can you tell us a little bit about this new season that God has you in? And it just sounds really exciting and just redemption.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Thank you. Thank you. God is so good and he's so kind, and he's so faithful, and it's a gift to go through really difficult times. It makes you just appreciate even more the goodness of God and being dependent on him, like not having a strategy. And that's hard, I mean, that's a you're a businesswoman, so to not have a strategy, it was like, Lord, this is beyond help. And he's so good, he's so good. And I I think that's really the best place to be, is when it's not, you know, he he told Israel, you know, I didn't choose you because you were the biggest and the mightiest and the strongest, but I chose you, you know, for my good name and my promises are forever and true, and he's faithful and just keeping our eyes on him, not the wind and the waves. And I'm so grateful for what he's done, and as difficult as the changes have been and hurtful, um, the joy that comes through, you know, there's joy in the morning. There's joy in the morning. It's um, I am enjoying our work now more than ever. I feel like we're just getting started. I work with an amazing team that God put together and the decision makers on our team. Um, I intentionally keep that very small, and I want to hear everyone's thoughts. We pray before every meeting and decision over it. And we've got to have clarity from the Lord. And I say no a lot more than I say yes. Uh, business is tough, there's a lot of sharks out there, right? And God's word tells us to be alert and to be discerning. You know, your enemy, the lion, roams about seeking someone to devour. So we've got to be deliver uh alert, discerning, and um, but it's it's so good. He's allowed us to grow and thrive in meaningful work, work that's really making a difference in people's lives and uh working in areas of nonprofit that are meaningful, but different sectors from apparel to home to um health and uh and business and helping people in business. I've learned a lot of powerful lessons, and it is a joy to be able to impart those to others.

SPEAKER_05 20:30

So it's exciting, exciting to tell us some of those powerful lessons that you've learned that you would can impart to our audience that you've learned through being a businesswoman and going through the ups and downs, and now in this new season, which sounds like God is really blessing, and you've been so faithful, and so he's so faithful to you back. And I want to talk about your new fragrances too. So, yeah, we talked a little bit on the first show. So tell us how this came about if somebody missed the first show.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Well, when uh we we started our brand in '93 with a pair of socks.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

And the mission statement began with finding solutions for families, especially busy moms. I was a new mom and I suddenly learned how underserved moms are. And there is no harder career than raising children. And there's nothing more important than that. And just taking a shower. So shower in a bottle has always been showering a bottle. I do I do shower now, but um, whether you shower or not, it's just, I mean, fragrance, I love it because it just evokes memories. Yes. And it it just takes you to a beautiful place. And the Bible begins and ends in a garden, and just that freshness and uh the beautiful florals and fragrances found in nature. That God made, and and I love it. So um, Kathy Ireland fragrance, it's uh available at Amazon, and uh it's been really fun to work on that. That's so beautiful. So when did this come out?

SPEAKER_05 22:12

I know it's pretty just launched, yeah. Okay, this is so awesome. And you have the three in a set, so you can got our travel size. Travel size, keep in my purse in the boat, right? Yeah, I like pendings, I keep it on. And then the full size, and it does. It smells amazing, and I love it. So you have Genesis, Soulmate, and Dreamer. Dreamer, and we also have Serenity too. Oh, okay. Is that a travel size as well? Or it's the full size. Full size. Okay. Well, be sure to get these Mother's Day, Christmas, anniversary, birthdays. So, so beautiful. And you have other items that you're gonna be coming out with in the in the near future.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Oh, we're in the midst of um some exciting changes, and it does feel like a rebirth in many ways, but just but really good, good work. I'm enjoying it very much.

SPEAKER_05 23:02

That's so awesome. And you were saying you just are wanting to help like nonprofits, and so tell us how how do you do that? What is the pathway that you are doing that with your brands?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Well, with our work, um, something that is meaningful is the opportunities that we get. I used to get overwhelmed when I would become aware of needs. And it can be it can be hard and intimidating to think like, well, what can I do? And recognizing that um, you know, we've been given opportunities that are bigger than us. Yes. And there's needs bigger than us, and so how can we do that? So, I mean, just a couple examples. I have the privilege of serving as the international youth chair for the National Pediatric Cancer Foundation. Beautiful. And uh they're doing great work. Um, I mean, cancer needs to be eradicated. It's um Jesus' name. It is it is hard. Um, but I'm really grateful for the really good people. Um, Anne Graham Lotts, Rachel Ruth Lotts, dear friends. So I serve on their board of Angel Ministries and just working with some amazing women and also the National Football Foundation. Oh, really? Oh, that's great. Really great people doing good work. It kind of focuses. I I served on the NFL PA for two terms. And so many different things, Kathy. It's an interesting life, an interesting life. Um, played a kicker in a football movie once. Oh my goodness. But uh two months of football camp, that was fun. But um, but this is a wonderful organization that really um helps young people and gives them a really good solid foundation, and then also addresses things like injury, like head injury, okay, and um, you know, uh mental illness and technology that can go into a helmet as well as practices and are they being, you know, is it too much? Right what can be done? So there's there's a lot of good work ahead.

SPEAKER_05 25:11

Well, I'm so excited for you and this new brand that you've launched and the new birth and that you have that you started out in prayer and that God's just given you it sounds like such an amazing team, and that he's just redeeming. He's so good. He's so good.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

He is and a verse he gave me when I was um 44 when I uh finally read through the Bible the first time, it was bittersweet, and it was sweet because the Old Testament God who I used to be afraid of, I suddenly like He is love and He is consistent from Genesis to Revelation. It's just so cohesive. You can't have the Old Testament without the new or the New Testament without the Old Both, yes, and just the love that I found in places that I had taken out of context, and that was so beautiful. Yet what was bitter was recognizing that I had wasted so much time, and by not knowing what his word said, there were things that I would have done differently. And the verse that the Lord gave me was Joel 225, and though God was specifically speaking to the beloved Israelites at that time, it applies, this can pertain to all of us, and it is I will restore the years, the locus of eating. Yeah, and so good. I think we can all relate to that. And whether um there are people who have eaten up our life or things that we've done are on our own, however it is, I think we can all relate to I wish I would have used that time better. I wish this didn't happen. But whatever something happened to us if we did it, um, he redeems it and restores it and makes it better.

SPEAKER_05 27:06

It's amazing. It makes me think of Joseph in the book of Genesis, where it's that verse, you know, that says, With the enemy intended for evil, I will use God will use for good.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

There's a really good book out right now. It's called God Won't Leave You There. And this is by who I just mentioned Anne Graham Lott and Rachel. I haven't read it yet. Right. Have you read it? Yes, it's I gotta get it. It's so good, it's so powerful, but it's about the life of Joseph. And he went through such difficult times, undeserved, such betrayal, such hardship, and he was so faithful. Yes, and God blessed him in those years. You know, he was in prison, he becomes the second in command of the world, amazing, right? Right, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 27:51

You just don't, God is so much bigger than it all. I mean, people in the enemy think that they can kill, steal, and destroy us, but nobody can take our soul. Yeah, and God's redemption is far beyond what we could ever ever imagine. Yeah, so it's so beautiful. Well, I want to hear about you going out on these boats. I mean, I just I think it's just amazing. You have your perfume with you, and so Greg has been a commercial fisherman. I didn't realize, I mean, I knew he, I thought it was more like on the side, like a hobby.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

But this has been he's been commercial fishing for 20 years. So the last 20 years of ER, he was doing both.

SPEAKER_05 28:27

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah, no, he's serious.

SPEAKER_05 28:30

He is serious, yeah. And so when did you first go out with him and then decide to like really go all in?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

So the season started. Um, it was uh just last October, 2025. October 1st was opening day. Um, he didn't have uh a crew, and so I said, I'll do it. And I had always had you ever been before? No, I've been on the boat camping, but it's hectic, it's serious, and there's no room. There's no room for really two people on that parking boat. And so um it just didn't make sense. And I I had always wanted to, and I don't get seasick, so I thought I'd even start with first mate. And he put me through training. I had to learn literally learned the ropes, you know, how to how to tie nozzle. Oh my god. It's hard. I had to go through my safety training, and um, it's so beautiful out there. The water is pristine um in our Channel Islands. We start just outside the harbor, we go up to Point Conception, okay, beginning of the season. The lobster kind of stay on close to the coast. I'm not gonna say where we fish because you don't want to give that away. That's a secret, right? It's a secret, but we go out to the islands and um and it's beautiful out there, and there's days that are literally whales and rainbows, although we're working so hard. You don't get to see it. It's like, can I take a no, we're gonna so it's like I take a picture of my mind. Um and then the weather changes just like that, and it and it we whips up. But when I started, I had an old knee injury, and my I was like, wonder how this is gonna be. But after the first day, I was like, my knee doesn't hurt because everything else hurts. But we start, we start pre-pre-dawn. Oh my god, it's early. We're we're chopping mackerel in the in the moonlight, but then we get to watch the moonset. It's so beautiful. Wow, and then stuffing the bait jars, and um, then the sun comes out and they get a little mushy, but that's why we wear these orange rubber. I've seen some of your pictures to protect us, and and it's just so beautiful. And we're they're long days when we're out at the islands, we go for a couple days at a time. Oh, so you just stay out there then?

SPEAKER_05 30:45

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Yes, and so it's just you and Greg on the boat. Wow. Yeah, yeah. So he'll he'll drive and I work the rails. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_05 30:55

And so, what are some life lessons maybe you've learned? I mean, just being out there is so different than modeling and being on the front cover of magazines and being behind a board table. Now you're like out at sea. Like, what are what are the things you've learned out there? Is it giving you a new perspective? It's so beautiful, Naomi.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

It's like at night, the stars, like there's no artificial light. It's just beautiful. Um, it's I mean, we grew up camping. So I'm gonna think mom because there's no, you know, I I have um a little bucket that's um, you know, where you relieve yourself. And then you flip it. Not luxury, not luxury, um, and you flip it over and it becomes your chair for when you're filling dairy jars. Oh my goodness. So it's just, but it's it's fun, you know. We we just make it fun. Yeah, we sing out there, not in your scenario. And um, and and we we make little guesses like how many lobsters are gonna be in this trap. I don't know how we'll make make little guesses to make it fun. That is so precious. But it's it's a lot of work. It's work. It's on the phone. You probably get some blisters and well, we wear gloves. Gloves. We wear gloves. I I used to be so I've learned to put on my big girl pants, Naomi. That's what I've learned. And here's what I've learned.

SPEAKER_05 32:19

They're different big girl pants, because I know you've got these are orange pants.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

These are really big pants. These are orange big pants really big girl pants. But I've learned I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And there have been days out there at sea that I remind myself of that. I can do all things. Thank you, Lord.

SPEAKER_05 32:39

You're like, I thought the business world was hard, or I thought modeling was hard, but it's a different type of hard.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

It's a different type of hardware. Yeah, I much prefer the sharks in the ocean than I do in business. Yes. Yeah. Okay, this is kind of this is kind of cute when Greg said to me, um, he was totally serious. Okay. I was like, this is like a vacation for you, isn't it? That wasn't really the adjective. I wish I I'm grateful. I get to experience your passion. I love that. Um, but that wasn't the adjective. Like you're not on the phone, you're not having to work and make deals and all the stuff that you're, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

But it's it's just funny that it's all the work she's doing all day and aching all over and hurting. And then I think you get to go lie down in a luxury.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Oh, there were board. Oh no, they're you can slip underneath the the bow of the boat, there's like two little slabs of of wood. But Greg got us um heated sleeping bags. Oh freezing. So that's that's that was um that was a nice perk. I'm sure. But then when we get back to the harbor, then it's marketing. And so you're selling it all. So I used to be afraid of lobsters like to carry to hold them. Yeah, because they, you know, they're they can bite, but you just there's no time. So you just gotta we gotta get them, we've gotta get them in their folders and you gotta climb down in there and count them and get them where they need to go.

SPEAKER_05 34:21

So well, I think it's just it's a beautiful example though, of you supporting your husband in something he's really passionate about. Yeah. Because, you know, it's maybe not really been your passion, but you were just so willing to go. And I think that can that speaks to me and I'm sure other people watching that just step into your husband's world and do something he's passionate about.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

It's been it's been amazing. I'm so proud of him because he took what he was passionate about and he's like, I think I can do this. He taught himself how to weld. Well he made the traps in our um driveway, throw them over the little balcony, and then hear like not happy, not happiness come out of his mouth because they'd fall apart. But then finally, you know, he didn't give up, he kept doing it. And finally, it's like it didn't break. He figured it out. So good for him.

SPEAKER_05 35:13

Yeah. Well, he's a he's a trooper, he's such a sweetheart. Such a such a blessing. And I remember your sweet husband too. John, yes, I know.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

It's so interesting that you use that verse because that was my verse. And after he passed away, and I knew where he was, and I knew I'd be with him again. But uh, I have to keep keep busy, so I'd be working in my yard. I kept thinking I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And I repeated that verse, you know, and he really did strengthen me. You know, you're a strong woman. Yeah, it was well, it was a hard time, and you know, my girls are all close to me, so I was I'm really blessed to have them. Yeah, we were down at the courthouse the other day when we saw you and we go in the parking lot. We saw my other daughter, Susie. How beautiful. Did you know she was gonna be there? No, I didn't. What a surprise! I know. So it's so nice, you know, that we're close in town, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:10

Such a blessing to have some of your family. Yeah, they're sweet, sweet girls. Well, what would you say before we wrap up? I have two last questions. What would you say to our viewers that are younger, that are just starting out, going, What do I do in this world? Trying to choose a career, a path. You've had such success. People would look at you, Kathy, and say you've had such success in two different careers. Um, and now a third being on the boat. Um, and Barbara, you have so much, so much wisdom in being an entrepreneur and raising your daughters and getting married at such a young age. What is some words of wisdom from both of you to maybe our younger audience?

SPEAKER_02 36:58

I just think for myself, I think when you see a need, you you try to do what you can. I mean, I had a good friend of mine that uh she passed away, but well, she had breast cancer and they'd been misdiagnosed it. So she said, Barbara, we've got to do whatever you can, we've got to do something. So then I started the walk that for breast cancer, and we did it for 22 years and raised over a million dollars for the cancer center. Wow. So I just felt that, you know, with all all the help I had, it was just a good thing to do, you know. I felt like I was doing something to help, you know, people that needed it.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

No, it went the Barbara Ireland walk for the cure. And mom, she walked that. She was involved with other walks, but she looked at the finances like, okay, what percentage is actually going to the people who need it, what's going to overhead? Right. It's like, no, I want something where 100% and I want it to stay in our community. And she did it. And there were a couple young women who friends of ours in their 30s. They're like, Oh, it's I'm young to get tested, but I'm, you know, energized. I'm gonna go get my mammogram. And both had stage four. What? But they got it treated and they're healthy today, but just you know, it's just such a need, raised awareness.

SPEAKER_05 38:15

Yes, yeah. So you say just go out there when you see a need, do something about it. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

I'm sure there's so much wisdom, but that's one one good takeaway. We'll have to do a show, show three, episode three to hear more.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Oh, no, there's a lot of people out there that can that need our help, you know, and I think uh we need to put our focus out there and see who needs who needs what. And there's always something we can do instead of thinking about ourselves and feeling sorry for ourselves or whatever, you know, for what we can't do. There's things we can do. Yes, through God's help.

SPEAKER_05 38:52

That's so true. What about you, Kathy?

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Um, I would say one thing that you taught me, mom. Um, and that's Jesus others you joy. And I remember being a young mom. It's joy enjoying it. And there were times when I was just frazzled and thinking, like, I probably need therapy or something, but there's no time. Um, I mean, I have I have my wonderful counselor, that's what I need, but just feeling like there's just no time. And when I wasn't feeling the fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, when I wasn't feeling that, I so I'd get three pieces of paper and I'd write with a big sharpie J, O Y, O, um, others, why, you. And it was like rearrange the priorities. And so it's just so good. To consider others as more important than yourself, it doesn't mean you devalue yourself. Right. It doesn't mean you're a doormat, nothing like that. But you recognize like what a gift it is to care about the needs of others even before yourself. Right. And it blesses you in the process. So I'd say that's a big thing. One other thing I would say, especially because you said young people too, is have boundaries and place and um recognize your values and then put the boundaries in place to protect them because they will be challenged.

SPEAKER_05 40:22

That's such and don't be afraid to say no. Yeah, and you said that earlier. You said you had to say no a lot. And yeah, I learned no.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

And even when you sometimes, um, I learned um Dr. Winter, um, and he was uh student of Westmor for years, but and and then he came and was um head of school at Providence, and he said, Oftentimes we have to say no to good things in order to say yes to great things. Yes, and I think sometimes as women we just want to do everything, yes, because we can, but um, it's probably better.

SPEAKER_05 40:57

That reminds me, Oswald Chambers has some a quote similar that I say all the time, and it says, Good is the enemy of the best. Because I I'm a yes person, and so I just want to say yes to everything, I want to do everything, but in saying yes to everything, then I'm gonna end up missing out on God's best. Right. So learning to have that discernment, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

And speaking of prayer, you know, you think of what Kathy's done with Providence School that started with prayer. Wow, probably from the very beginning.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

God is good, and Randy Clark and his wife Amy, and but my little role in it, I just felt God put it on my heart. And but I was like, God, I don't know what I'm doing. I barely finished high school, and I got the conviction in my heart. I just felt him say, It's not about you. Right. It's about me. Yeah, you do your part, I'll bring others. He put it on your heart and you take that step of faith. And then he brings others who, you know, we get to work together, the body of Christ. It's so good. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 41:58

Well, actually, it makes me think of one little thing I want to add. So you say you barely made it through high school and you didn't go to college, but look at what God has allowed you to accomplish. And I just think that's also something for our viewers that you know, follow God's path.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:17

And it doesn't mean you have to go to college, you have to get your master's. Like, God will use you if you follow Him. And it doesn't mean you need to have this degree. Some people need a degree and some people don't. I didn't go to college. Well, I did like about a year.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:34

But, you know, and I just think of Charlie Kirk and different others, like the impact that we can have for Christ is not based upon our degree or a diploma. It's are we walking the calling that God has for us? And you both have just so beautifully walked out God's call for your lives. And so my last question is legacy. I like to always end with what would you say is the legacy that you want to leave this earth when you graduate to your eternal home?

SPEAKER_02 43:06

Just that we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. And I would want everybody to know that uh no matter what the challenges we have, you know, he's always there. We can lean on him and not on our own understanding but uh acknowledge him. And uh I just think that uh no matter what, you can do it through him.

SPEAKER_05 43:29

And then the word of God, right? What about you, Kathy?

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Just I mean, our lives are but a vapor. They're so short, we're just passing through. But uh there's nothing more important than trusting in Jesus and just to recognize that the love that he has for each person, that he loves everyone, and he's got like that open invitation, his arms are open, and he gives us the opportunity to receive him or not, and so beautiful. Just I mean, if if there's anything, I would just want um to point out to him and his love and forgiveness, and there's no shame and just the the beauty and surrendering. That's so beautiful. His love, yeah, yeah, his love.

SPEAKER_05 44:32

Well, you both radiate his love so so much, and I just am so honored to have you come on the show. Thank you so much. Thanks, Kathy. You guys are just amazing. Love you so so much.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Thank you, love you, and you radiate his love so much. Jesus is good.

SPEAKER_05 44:51

So good. Thank you so much. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.