Support and shared ministry: how we as pastors find support and share the responsibility of leading

This week, we discuss how we find support for ourselves and supporting those we lead.  We all need support.  As pastors, we need friends to help us decompress by talking and letting us be ourselves.  We also must trust those around us to carry the responsibility given to us as pastors as we wear many hats throughout the day, and sometines in the same meeting.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Well, welcome back to our next episode of season two of Two Pastors One Calling. Thank you all for all the great comments you've given to us and all the encouragement you've given to us too, because we're we're just trying this out, and I appreciate all the other comments and maybe using some aspects of what you think could be a little different. I appreciate that very much. But you know, not too many of those. But um no, but in all seriousness, thank you for for all the different ways you've you've encouraged us trying this new endeavor of just trying to have to reach reach our people, help us take a step with Jesus one step at a time. So last time we talked about what's the day of life of a pastor. We talked about, you know, how do you what's a routine, what what's regular for you. We talked about how do you prepare for tough days. We even talked about how has the good Lord led us through these things. And so today it's like one more step into almost like a day in the life or how we live as pastors. It's on how do we find support as as local pastors? So it's one of those things where you know we too need support. We we need it, we need people around us, we need people that we can bounce ideas off of. We need people that know what only that we go through. And so today we're gonna talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

So, Pastor Chris, so how would you describe how you find support? Do you have a group? Do you have a certain friend? How would you how do you describe that?

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Yeah, I would say I do it multifaceted. And so I was trying to think through like the different circles that you have. Obviously, my family is very supportive and they know the real me kind of thing. And so it's really good to just have those people that they love you no matter what, and they're actually committed to you even beyond your uh assignment at that particular church, like as you're serving, because you might serve at a particular church or parish for a number of years, which is a huge blessing. But then uh for my wife, like we're married for life, and so like she's gonna, you know, and the my boys, they're they're my kids for life, so it's awesome to be able to have that kind of support. I think too about other pastors, I would even include you in this category as we get to know each other better, uh, that we can just lean on one another and you know, kind of be there in both practical ways and just beer soul support. Uh our church also has a body of elders, so we're elder led. So there's six elders in our church, and I have the honor of serving as one of those elders. And the elders are like real a band of brothers, that we are we are together shepherding the church. Uh, there's a few of us that are own paid staff and a few that are not. Okay. So it's kind of a good balance there. And then I'm blessed to have a community group. And the community group, everybody in our church is encouraged to be part of a small group. We call them community groups here. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not the community group leader, and that's what's really important because when I go there, uh my wife and I, they just say, Hey, that's Chris and Christelle. Like, that's not Pastor Chris.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

And it's real important that the leader kind of allows that safe place for us to be people that are following Jesus. Like, yes, I'm a pastor, but I'm primarily a follower of Jesus, if that makes sense. And so having those support, and then of course, you know, like probably similar to you, like professionally, you have other pastors and the kind of network of pastors that you're learning from. And so I feel like if I was gonna give somebody advice, I would say, man, having multiple layers and multiple types of support system is extremely important. So, how about you? Like, what are your support networks?

SPEAKER_00 3:21

So, I I'd echo that. Sorry, because I'd echo that, I'd echo that very much where um I have uh I have a team that that I I work with on a weekly basis, um, our our our leadership team. And so I'm with them every single week. You know, I meet we we meet together all the time, stuff like that, you know, and we have times where we pray together and and share things and and we need to maybe talk about some things and you know, and that sense of building that trust with each other, of knowing that we can take these things to each other and know that that they will be here and it's a it is quote unquote a safe spot, safe space to talk about these things, you know, and um and and so what we also do at times is uh we we have a um we have a kind of a rule where we say, okay, we're um uh uh we call it we call it the Vegas rule, where it's like, you know, whoever have have Vegas stays in Vegas. So we could we'll call it a Vegas rule. All right, guys, it's a Vegas rule. We can talk about something and this cannot leave this room. We're not ready to depart to talk about it yet. It will be out sometime, you know, in the within the within our parishes and our staff. But right now, and even our staff level, we have a Vegas conversations where we say, okay, you know, you know, we we have to make sure this stays at this certain level until we're ready to move forward with it all. Sure. And so and so I think that that having something like that with you with with people you work with, and you become the know personally, where you know that that's that's the nice thing of working in parish life, is a lot of these people that work and uh for the parish are parishioners, and you see them in their different capacities too, as their their job and with their families. All so you it's it's kind of a mix of things in that regard, you know? And that's actually another episode down the line, too. But uh, but the thing is, is like there's that. There is, uh, as you said before, there's different levels of it all. There's some parishioners I know I can go and talk to. Um, there's some parishioners that I have been friends with since I became a priest. And even when I when I started my internship, I have close friends in that too. So I know there's some people that I can always talk with and just go and just be said, be Brian. Yep. Right there. That's right. You know, and and what's nice too, I I just recently just found out that a buddy from high school just moved up to the area and started started attending uh the parishes too. So it's like now there's another guy, oh yeah, that's it. There's another guy I know it's around here that's that's you know can know who the real Brian is, you know. But but then there's also a certain level of um of of my brother priests because those, as you know, in ministry and in I think as pastors, one thing that led us down this path is we realized we're dealing with a lot of the same things, and we know what each other are going through. It may not be apples to apples at times, but we know what each other's going through. So when with my brother priests, you know, we we we can I I meet with them once a month for about four hours, three and a half, four hours, and and we just talk about what's going on, we can try to give support to each other, some practical advice, and then just cut and then pray together. And then that that's you know, when you look at your calendar, you think, man, it's another four-hour meeting. But when you go there, one you're getting away for a little bit into that, and then there's also a certain level of being able to just talk about things when we have found out when we go there, we're kind of bringing the same stuff. It's just different applications in different parishes. Um, so my brother priests being able to get away with them and just sit and talk and just know that as this is a spot where we're not we're not worried about you know uh how we having to say things, but just you know, being with them. Lastly, I obviously I have my spiritual director. And uh my spiritual director uh it's been a person I've I've been able to to rely on a lot as well. And she is a uh Franciscan nun, and she's about 82 years old, four foot eleven, and she's a she's a powerhouse, you know. That's great. Um I met Sister Olga uh eight years ago. Eight years ago, and just by chance, um I I was trying to find a retreat, a place, and I found this place out in Indiana, and I said, sure, I'll I've heard about it. I'll go out there and try it. Met with her every day. And then on the Friday, she looks like she goes, So Father Brian, so when are you coming back? I'm like, I I guess in a month, you know? Yeah. And eight years later, I'm still meeting with her. That's great. And she's she's been amazing, and as another person, and on top of that, too, she's a she's a psychologist. So she has different levels of understanding things too. And so that's been another person that I've been I've been able to turn to and have a certain level of trust in, and oh, I can take anything to Sister Olga. And she and she and she has what what I like about talking with her is she's opposite of me. Right. A lot of time ministers and priests, we have very personal personalities, kind of very practical, spiritual, but a lot of times we have very practical minds. Where she's very practical in her own, but what I'm saying is that her spirituality is different than mine.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

And so she's able to kind of talk to me in different ways and help me see things differently and see, help me see God living inside of me. Help me see, you know, how God is working inside of me that I that I can't see myself. Yeah. So those are that's my levels right there. That's great. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Yeah, as you were talking, I was just thinking about how important it is to have like uh support both within the fellowship in the church and then outside the church. And then as you mentioned her, I just thought about as well. Like, so I I periodically go to a counselor, and I do that uh primarily because I want someone outside of me to ask me questions that maybe I'm not even thinking I should ask about my mental health, emotional, spiritual, all this kind of stuff. And I'm blessed because my counselor is he was a former pastor, and then he went into counseling. And so he has some questions that you know might be very specific to my role in in ministry that I just really am appreciative for. So it's important to have that. So you mentioned too this idea of the three, the 12, the 72. Kind of first of all, explain what that is for us because it's not just unique to pastors, but how that can maybe apply to anybody. And then if you don't mind sharing a little bit about kind of yours, and then I'll share as well. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

We know we actually kind of talked about it a little bit already, but this is a slightly different because this is more about ministry and about uh ministry and trusted work. Okay, because the three of the 12 and the 72 comes from the idea of how Jesus set up his his inner his his inner inner team, the apostles, and then the disciples he sent out.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

And so the three are are Peter, James, John. I'm gonna cut that wrong. Yeah, Peter, Peter, sorry, sorry, don't feel that wrong. Uh Peter, James, John. And then you know, they went up the mountain with him, you know, at foration. You know, the when when they healed the little girl, you know, the you know, they they were there with him. That's right. So they those were the inside group, if you will, of the apostles. That's right. And then he had the twelve. The twelve, uh, which were the apostles, whom he poured into in a certain way to then send out the seventy-two to go do work, do ministry. And so he really poured more into the three of Peter, James, John than he poured into the twelve, then he poured into the seventy-two, because what he's doing is he is uh preparing Peter, James, and John to then kind of be the leaders of the 12. Yeah, you know, and and and and we believe that, you know, obviously Peter, we believe that Peter was the head of the apostles because upon his rock, I'll build my church. Um, but then but when he sent out the 72, he's now he's now sending more people out to go do ministry. So our three 12 and 72 are the ones who are we pouring into the most, yeah, who are then pouring into other people, who are then pouring into other people. So it's kind of like the if you've ever seen those those buckets where the water comes down and then it keep and they keep moving downward, and you know, and so the water keeps filling bucket and it keeps going down. That's what we're talking about. And this is why it's more about ministry and work than it is about trust, because the trust is there, but it's like these, like the the three, like like my leader, my leadership team, they're the ones I'm gonna talk to the most. They're the ones I'm gonna you know make sure that that when we're talking about things, this is the direction you want to go. But what's also happening is is that the 12 whom they lead, they're also interacting with them, they're also listening to them, and then it goes back and forth. So it's so it's not like the three are this some exclusive inner sanctum, but what it is is they're the ones that have been were put around Jesus or we put around ourselves that helps us to know what's going on with the 12, the rest of our staffs or our some of our main leaders, and then those then be pour into them, and then as we go do ministry out out in maybe the the our parish or a church around the world, that 72 become the ones who go do out and do a lot more of the work. That was a long way of saying that. Sorry. No, that's great, but uh, but you know, but so when we look at it then, for me, I said before, I have my leadership team, and then so uh they're the ones they're like the three. And so they're the ones we meet every single week on Tuesday morning for an hour and a half, looking at what's going on week to week, what are those big things we need to keep solving and figuring out and put and and fulfilling our our uh our planning, all those type of things, and getting getting those things done. The the the 72 are the ones that I pray with every single day, or the 12, excuse me, the my the staff we pray every single day. They're you know, we're they're working on their teams with with the people on my leadership team, and then but we'll we'll and we'll have you know once-a-month staff meetings. But we'll also make sure every Thursday we're we're we're meeting to make sure we know the calendar, what's going on. So different levels of pouring into over time. And then on top of that, you know, the 72 becomes like my pastoral council that are parishioners who then help me to know what's going on in the parish. They they they consult me on what what what happens. Our finance commission, they they're the ones that again help us with budgeting and those type of things. There are our our bereavement committee, there are you know, people that go serve the poor. Those become the 72 that are poured into by the ones who lead those ministries. Yeah, and so that that's that's how I talk about 312 and 72.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Yeah. So how how does somebody identify the three? Like kind of that may be part of your story or not, like because it's it's about being very intentional, yep. And maybe I don't know if you call it like the lion's share of your attention and your uh just equipping and training is going into these three. Yeah, how did God kind of direct you to those three? How does somebody find those three?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Some practical, some everything, you know? Okay, where like um some of it was was uh about uh eight, nine years ago, this whole thing about leadership team started to kind of come up, especially in the Catholic Church, one you never kind of seen before. So, like before you would have these three or four people that you would always kind of talk with and and you'd meet with, and and you know, they were some of your your direct reports, or maybe someone else that you just kind of trusted, you know. And then, but as time went on, we were kind of directed to be talking about a leadership team, a team that meets every single week. Okay. And it's two things. One, yes, we want to make sure the direction goes very well, but what's most important is that's your first line of culture that you want to build within your your your church and your your staff and your churches. Because what we want to live out, the sense of what we call prayer teamwork discipleship, is how we want to then start living out into the the staff people, into our leaders, and then it but it starts there, and then those are the ones who are up behind you. They may not always agree with everything. That's a really important point. They may not always agree, but we uh me as pastor and us as the team work together to understand what's the best answer. And I'm gonna listen to every single one of them, and I'm gonna do my best to listen to all of them and do my best to understand what's what's the best answer through prayer and shared prayer together, and then and then just trust over time. And then that that's how a leadership team comes about. Some of it is because, well, this is my head of ventilation, this is my head of operations, my head of worship, this is my principal, you know, the head of communications. They they kind of and then stewardship, they became leadership team. Yep, because they're the ones that report to me. The role, yeah. And then so it was partly role practical, but also partly discerning who's are the right people, who's the right fit to do these things, yeah, of being a leader in all this stuff. And so, so that's I'm talking too much right now.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

No, but you're doing great because I'm about to ask you another question. Repeat yourself. You said prayer, teamwork, and then what was discipleship, discipleship.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

So those are the three building blocks.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

That's great. And that's among the leadership team, and then you're hoping that overflows into the 12.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Yeah, yep, and into the 72.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Yeah. So it kind of a this is more of a strategy question, but like what are some of the differences in the way that you're interacting with the three versus the 12? Like we already know you said time, like time and focus. But what are something you'd say, well, this is something I'd probably interact with and do with the 12 that I wouldn't do with the three, or vice versa?

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Great question. I think uh let's start small and build. Okay. So with the leadership team, um, one is time. I meet with them every single week. Secondly, it's the things we're we talk about. Okay. So it's the higher level conversations, it's the it's the culture conversations, it's the strategic planning conversations that's being brought from all these other groups coming in. And so we're the ones that that take all this information either from listening sessions or from what's what our teams are going through, or what um, what you know, what direction we need to go, or what the diocese is telling us we need to do. And um, and then what we come together and then look at all those things in that way. And then what ends up happening is is that we call we do what's called cascading communication, which is that we move from that meeting to communicate out to our staff people. And we do that a couple different ways, word of mouth. We have a uh after our our leader team meets, we email out the the the topics we talked about so they know what's going on. Because that, you know, and then and then on top of that, when we then our staff meetings are kind of built on, okay, what are those things that are coming up? What are those things that need to need to happen, what the staff needs to know about, I need feedback on whatever it might be, those become that monthly staff meeting. And you know, and then and then that's where we take notes from that meeting and send out to our parish leaders so they know what's going on within within our our our meetings as well. Not every detail, but at least they know the topics of what's going on. And so um, so I think that those are different ways of how to interact. So the three, those are the really high-level conversations, the tough conversations at times, or and because uh, and then they could then go to their teams and have those conversations and tough conversations about what needs to happen, or maybe there's a slight change or or stuff like that. But but the but the most important is the people that are in part of the 12, especially the 12, are the ones who who know they're being listened to because of how we communicate back and forth. Yeah, you know, it's not always perfect. I I make mistakes too, you know. Um, but that that's the really important thing is making sure that people understood they're being heard. Um, and then and then that helps with buy-in and helps with how to move direction forward. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Man, I appreciate you sharing that. Like we don't have exactly the same structure, but it's like uh, I don't know, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think for us, we have, as I shared before, like an elder-led church, and then we have the staff. And so I don't know if the elders would kind of be in that three category because we have kind of high-level overall direction. And then the staff has more execution. Yep. So if you have like one maybe overseas vision, one overseas execution. But excuse me, to your point, excuse me, it's always uh it's always dynamic, it's always changing, and it's important so important as far as trust that communication goes both ways, that you can communicate to both teams and through both teams. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Would you then say that as a part of of which of what you do, um how important it is for communication, yes, but also how important it is to understand where each person is. Because how I communicate with each person is also dependent upon how especially in the work day, how how how we get things done. Yeah because I think what's really important is that so how would you talk about that in terms of what am I how am I gonna talk to my elders versus how am I gonna talk to you know my head of marriage ministry, you know? Yeah. So how how how would you talk about that?

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Yeah. I think one of the biggest things that I've learned is in the elder room, it's like first among equals, so to speak. And so those guys feel like the leadership team where we're leading together, whereas I feel like with the staff, or often other times, when I'm talking with somebody, it's hard for them not to see me as the pastor and or the possibly if it's staff love their boss. Yep, yeah. And so I may be wanting to collaborate and just, hey, we're two guys coming up with a plan or solving a solution, and I may still be in the dream phase. Like, no, we're just dreaming about this, we're just visioning, and they may take it as a directive. Uh-huh. And so sometimes that can cause tension because they're like, oh, well, Chris said blink blink blank. And I was like, Yeah, I did say that. I was just dreaming. That's that is a potential solution. That wasn't a directive.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

And so it can cause plenty, and I make plenty of mistakes in that regard.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

So so that's a good, I think it's a great segue here, too. It's like because there's a lot of times people want to pick our brains, or people want to know what's going on, or they or or so, how do we know the difference between how do you how do you know the difference between someone that really cares what you want to know or they want to know, or just wants to get something out of you?

SPEAKER_02 21:17

Yeah, that's from you. That's a great question. And I think I'm weak in this area. Like I think I'm not as strong with discerning, yeah. Uh that I'm typically more of a trusting person, so I meet somebody and I trust them. Sure. My wife would tell you one of the indications when I feel like I really trust somebody is the difference in my laughter, which I've never noticed. But she's like, you seem more free and more joking around and laughing because you're comfortable. And when you're not as comfortable, so it's kind of taught me to kind of be sensitive to the spirit. Like if I feel a check in my spirit, so to speak, like why do I feel like I want to hide or maybe be uh maybe be more cautious. And it may be because I'm not completely trusting that person has. An agenda that's pure. You know, they may come in, and again, it doesn't have to be a simple thing, but they may be like, Man, I want to do what I want to do and I want to convince you in that way. And so you just kind of know. And then the other thing I've noticed too is the principle of reciprocity. So if I'm the only one asking the questions and finding out how they're doing, and they never ask about me, then it's probably more about them and my role in relation to them. That's very good and they really don't necessarily care about knowing me and my heart or any of that kind of stuff. So that reciprocity is not.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Oh, that's a great way of putting it. Because I think it is a lot of us are weak in those areas. And I I can say I am too. Um, because it is, it is, because it kind of goes back to we wanna we can be people pleasers, you know? Sure. And and because we can be trusting people, we can also attribute a trust to somebody that they haven't earned yet. Yeah, I think that's a good way to say it. And so that's what I think, yeah, I hear you 100%. And because I think that yeah, so when it when uh there's there's there's those moments of people ask you to dinner and you oh I'm having dinner with this with these people, it'd be great. Then all of a sudden it's oh wait a minute, oh okay. This is really about their own thing. It doesn't happen all the time. Yeah, but ever but but uh uh us as pastors, we have a tendency to kind of read things through that too, going, all right, who's gonna ask me out the dinner just just to just to get their their agenda down, you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

And I think we're gonna maybe address this in a later episode too. It's like uh I think is the term dual relationship. And so it's I have people in our church family that would definitely say, Man, Chris is a friend. Yeah, but to be honest with you, it goes back to what I think about. I'm like, well, they never ask me how things are going. Like, and and I'm their friend until something else goes on, and then maybe I'm then they're immediately their pastor. And so it's this unique kind of balance of you know, like you know, you heard the old principle, like, which hat am I wearing right now? Am I head we the boss hat? Like I'm leading the staff or something, am I elder hat? Am I pastor? Am I friend? Am I fellow brother in Christ? And sometimes it can be all of those in one conversation, correct?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

And it's hard for us to miss that too. You know, yeah, it's hard because like someone's gonna switch into friend the pastor, and we're still thinking friend. Yeah, and then all of a sudden feelings get hurt. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Yeah, that's totally right.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

That's a good call. Yeah, so it's yeah, so I think it is tough, you know, and we spoke what we gotta take one day at a time, keep learning from what we can do, and keep moving forward in that regard, you know, and just and just this is also what we realize too, people in general have like the you know a certain sense of wanting to do the best, and you know, that so when when those things happen, when someone realize someone's trying to get something out of you, you just realize they're just they just want the best stuff too. Yeah, and you know, and so and there's there's no no fault of anybody here, it's just a matter of just recognizing what what hat to put on at the right time. That's the right way of putting it. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Well, we we've talked about this before. So in the life of Christ, as we examine kind of his life, we see God indeed, the father, blessed the son with a support system, right? But there was also like those moments of loneliness. I mean, Jesus was a hundred percent God, hundred percent man, and there's this unique kind of like I don't know, this role that we can learn from. So as you kind of reflect upon even some of the lonely or isolated moments of the life of Christ, like tell us some of your thoughts behind that.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Yeah, I mean, I think there's um the the one that's in scripture really is obviously the Garden of Gethsemane. Yeah, you know. Um when you go to Jerusalem and you and you see like the the archaeological where you have the house of Caiaphas, and the house of Caiaphas had the dungeon for the for the where the the the crypt the prisoners would be. And so realizing when Jesus was arrested and overnight the next day, he had to be in this dungeon, which is I think it was like about ten foot deep, and there was no windows. And so now these days there's a window, so you can see, but back in the back in the first century, he would have been Jesus would have been looking up into darkness and and having that moment of all of my friends have left me. It's like Psalm 88, Psalm 88, I think it's Psalm 88, 88 or 89, one of those two, where it's like, you know, my my one companion is darkness. And I think there's sometimes where we can feel that. We can feel that my only companion is companion right now is just darkness. You know, I feel like I'm just alone here. And and sometimes it's kind of like self-put there, yeah, because we're of maybe we're going through anxiety or something. Maybe we were having a bad day, maybe we we've gone through a really, really tough meeting where we had to be more of the you know the hard, you know, the hard pastor, if you will, about the and you didn't you don't want to do that. Um, but yeah, there are definitely times we have that. Would you have a way of kind of explaining that too?

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Yeah, and I think sometimes you I liked what you said. Like you feel like you can do things if you're not careful as a pastor that actually isolate your yourselves, and you have to be careful. There's other times, there's an isolation in the sense of uh people are looking to you. Uh like obviously in your uh heritage, we refer to your role as father, Brian. Well, similar in a family, you feel the weight of the fatherhood, right? And it's like the kids, the wife, everything's looking to the father, and sometimes you feel the weight and responsibility in a unique way. Um, I think when we talk about elders in our church, it's not about authority as much as it is responsibility. And responsibility to me has always been a heavy word. Like if I'm responsible for something, I feel that weight. And I praise God, like the elder team, we carry the weight together. It's still heavy, but we carry that responsibility. And those are times when it can feel lonely. Yeah. You know, like Christ is the only one who could atone for our sin. Yes. So even though Peter, James, John, Bartholomew, whoever you want to talk to, devoted men of God, they could not atone for our sins. So there's this moment of his role, his responsibility. In some way, there was this loneliness of it. And then, like you said, he comes to the end of his life, and and just like we would have done, people got scared and then ran away when Bush came to show up and he found himself alone, which was actually preparation for the lonely place of the cross. That's great. You know, and so I don't know. For us, I think there's times that that we feel the weight and responsibility. We have to be mindful of how do we how do we build a support system and still recognize there's things that we carry that that it can be isolating, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Yeah, well, that's a great way of putting it. I think I also think a great way to ending this this this episode too, because I think, you know, we go through all those things, and this is not meant to be, oh, well it's us and have a pity party here, but it's one of those things. But that but as we take on uh ministers of Jesus, we also mean that we must also live the life of Jesus too. And that's and again, that's more than just pastors, that's families, that's parents. You know, the all they everybody takes that on in that regard. So so we can each have that certain maybe a certain sense of having more patience with each other, yeah, knowing that someone may be going through a season of life that needs a little more patience because they are maybe you're feeling more lonely or they're feeling the weight of responsibility more. And how can we, who've gone through those things to our own families as being leaders of parishes or churches, also know that, hey, this person's probably going through a moment of of the of that right now. And how can I be more empathetic, sympathetic, and prayerful with that person too? That's good. That's good. Well, as we end our episode two of season two, uh, I hope you enjoyed this this conversation and how we look at our structures and and support and everything, and just know that that just know that you're all in our prayers, and please keep keep us in your prayers too as we walk this path with Jesus. God bless you and have a great weekend.