Baseball Scouting, Player Development & Analytics | Gene Watson

In this episode, of Zeke & Zonk Inside the Game we are joined by baseball scout Gene Watson who shares insights on player development, the impact of analytics, and the future of baseball. He discusses his career, the importance of team culture, and the evolving scouting landscape.

Chapters

00:00 Introducing Gene Watson to Inside the Game
03:17 Texas Baseball Performance and Analysis
05:58 World Baseball Classic Insights
09:06 Gene Watson's Career and Transition to White Sox
12:05 Scouting Evolution and Player Evaluation
15:10 The Importance of Team Chemistry
18:23 Challenges in Youth Baseball Participation
21:10 Player Interaction and Team Dynamics
24:16 The State of College Baseball and Wooden Bats
27:12 Pitching Trends and Command vs. Velocity
30:11 Building a Championship Team
32:33 Conclusion and Reflections on the Game
33:56 zeke and zonk  (1).mp4

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

And welcome to Zeke and Sonk Inside the Game. I'm Greg Sundell. He's Keith Moreland in another edition here of our podcast, Inside the Game. We will have a guest today, Gene Watson, is going to be joining us. A longtime friend, longtime scout, been in the game, been a part of two World Series championships, I believe, in Florida and in Kansas City. But he's busy with the World Baseball Classic right now down in Houston. But he will pop on your screen and you will hear his voice pretty soon. But before we get to Gene, we're just gonna go right into some baseball here. I think they deserve a one beside their name. They're playing pretty good baseball right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Well, you know, uh everybody says it's preseason. You don't know what's going on, but they beat everybody, it's been on their schedule to this point. Uh and the other thing is that this is the seventh time that they scored more than 10 runs against an opponent. It was not a run rule game last night because the runs came in the top of the ninth inning. But still, uh this is an offense that we've seen uh be physical, third more than 30 home runs now for the Longhorns and 15 ball games, averaging two a game. I said this is a hundred home run team, and I think I really believe that as a group, it'll be over a hundred uh as a team when we get to the end of the season. Uh they have caught the ball. I thought last night's relay in the first part of the game was just an outstanding play uh that that really changed the complexion of that ballgame because Texas jumped out to a 2-0 lead. And my get out of town moment is the fact is that uh we have seen two baseballs hit by two different longhorns that have traveled more than 465 feet. I'm just telling you, I played the game for a long time. I've been around the game for more than 50 years at an elite level. I've only seen five or six balls that have been hit further as far or further than the balls we've seen hit.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

When um Barba hit last night, I think it landed. It was massive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

It was massive. It landed in Akasino, how did you say it? Accounts of Springs. It landed in the park, water park over there.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Oh, no, I got gigantic. You were talking about it. I mean, I think a big reason recently is Borba and Timo. I mean, they're they're starting to get get really hot. Yeah. Um, but they're 31 of 36 stolen bases, a 340 team average. Yeah. They're fielding's on, they're fielding at a 989 clip. Only six. Oh, that's what I'm saying. They they make the plays and they can hit.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

And uh uh, you know, last night it we've seen some days where they struggle a little bit with the strike zone, with the walks, but uh I mean their pitching's been overall exceptional, but you look at this team, this is a really good offensive team. Now, we're gonna find out a whole lot because uh Ole Miss is a good baseball team, too. So uh, you know, SEC play starts this weekend.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

That was your get out of town moment with those home runs. Mine's gonna be from the NBA. Never thought we'd be talking about that on here. Mine goes to Bam Adebayo. Bam Audebayo's on. He plays for the Miami Heat on uh a couple days ago, might have been yesterday. He dropped in 83 points. 83 points, 75. 83, 83, second all time. We got Wilt and he got Kobe, and you're in the middle. Kobe had 81, Wilt had 100, bam a debayo dropping a bam, bam, bam, bam, get out of town moment with 83 second all time.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

No kidding. I I I had not seen that. I mean, I I'm I'm I guess I've I've been wrapped up in baseball. I mean, obviously, uh, we're gonna have Gene on in a minute, and he's been involved in it. So, yeah, between college baseball and you know, obviously, how can you not watch the World Classic and what's going on with that? So I I have I had no idea. So that's a get out of town moment. Yours is stunned me, as you can tell. I did 83 in an NBA game. That's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

That was incredible. I saw Gene pop on there a second ago. If he can hear us, he can pop back in. We're gonna talk with Gene. I mean, he's what, Florida Marlins in 2003, Royals 2015, and there he is. As we speak, hi guys, how are you? As we speak. Hey Gene, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Great to see you guys. Y'all doing all right? Where are you these days? I'm in Houston. I've actually been assisting with the coordination of the advance for Team USA for the World Baseball Classics. So it's it's nice to be able to sleep in my own bed during spring training for 10 days. And uh obviously last night was was pretty disappointing, but uh we got to hope for good things tonight and uh and possibly get to move on to Miami.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Well, that'd be my first question, Gene. Is is uh I I really don't understand the uh uh the the rules. I mean, obviously uh you don't want guys to pitch too much because they do work for other organizations and all the other things, but uh if it comes down and it's a three-way tie, you couldn't have some kind of other tiebreaker than run scored. I mean, that makes you feel like it's you need to add runs up.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Yeah, I I think I I I I hey man, I went to UT Arlington. I'm not that smart when it comes to math, but it it it's uh the bottom line is Italy was uh was super prepared and super focused. And we had two kids last night, Sam Antonacci and Kyle Till, that both homered early in the game. They're two of our top prospects. And um, I know that when I went over to see them, and you guys know this better than anybody, they they had that that look in their eyes as a team, and they were prepared, and and they certainly got the job done. So uh, you know, you got to tip your cap to them. But uh, you know, you just gotta hope that uh good things happen tonight. And uh, you know, it's it's obviously one of the most talented rosters you've ever seen ever, uh, but uh Italy got it got them last night, and so you're hoping for uh for an Italy win tonight, or if Mexico wins, they they don't win by a certain number of runs. Uh I don't really understand it, but uh but we need some help, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah, it's better when you can take matters into your own hands instead of sitting back and waiting. But no question. USA has to win, and uh I mean, if if Italy beats Mexico, it's a done deal, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Yeah, and they've got Aaron Nolan going on the mountain, and they certainly have a pathway to victory with their bullpen's. And and you know, my big concern about Italy, and I've I've been saying for about three weeks, don't don't don't take them lightly. That you know, uh Jack Caglione, uh Vinny Pasquatino, Kyle Teal, uh Sam Antonacci, uh Jacob Marseille, uh the canzone kid with Seattle. I mean, they they've got a major league lineup. Um Ned Colletti, the former general manager, um he's the general manager. They've got Francisco Cervelli, Jorge Posada, Alard Baird, the former general manager of the the Royals are all on board. So, I mean, like they've been preparing for this moment for a long time, and there was just such a belief system uh within their their team and their organization that they knew they could come and compete, and they certainly did that.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

You know, Gene, it it I I'm gonna uh back up and and and get away a little bit from uh MLB, the the what's going on right now. I want to talk a little bit about your trans transition, I mean, to the White Sox and what's been going on with the White Sox. I mean, uh at Rhino's funeral, I saw Jim, uh Tommy, and what a great man uh within y'all's organization. And I can see where y'all are trying to go, but I mean it's been such a process. Just sort of give us an idea of the early development of what's going on within your organization.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah, you know, it's been really exciting, and this is this is really my my fourth rebuild to be a part of. And and you know, what's always been important to me is if you're gonna if you're gonna take time away from your family and you're you're going to be gone as much as the job requires, I wanted it to be fulfilling. I wanted it to be something that was that was making a difference within the organization. And and no offense to the Yankees or Dodgers, I was a part of the Braves on the backside of the 14 years of division titles. It just didn't feel meaningful to me. Um, so to go, you know, two to Miami, well, actually San Diego in '98 to go from worse to the World Series and get swept. And then you go to the Marlins on the backside of that rebuild, and we win a World Championship in 03. And when we got to Kansas City in 2006, it was it was truly worse than expansion. We had nobody at the Major League level we could trade. You you had Alex Gordon and Billy Butler in double A. Zach Grinkey was at home, he had quit, and we had just drafted Luke Hoeshaver. So it took nine years to build that organization up to get to a World Series and lose and then win it the next year in 2015. And it's really been the same kind of feeling here in Chicago. We, you know, obviously 100 loss seasons, back-to-back years, but Chris Getz, who we traded for in Kansas City, is such an intelligent baseball mind and a visionary. And Jerry Reinsdorf, my gosh, Hall of Fame general uh Hall of Fame owner, that is just so much fun to be around. And I know you guys know him, and he just loves to talk baseball. And so when you complement that with Jim Tomey and Tony LaRussa and Phil Nevin and Paul Yannish, who's a Houston product, and Josh Barfield, who's a Houston product, it's just it's just a tremendous group, and and it's a baseball group, and we love to talk baseball every day. There are certainly other aspects of the game now that are important, but but just the the dig down deep and talk about players and the hearts and the minds of the players has been really important to us, and and it's been a joy so far to be a part of it. And we're getting a little bit better. You know, I don't I think 70 to 75 wins would be a good year, but uh, you know, we've got the number one pick in the draft this year, and and uh that's certainly gonna be a good player. So we we feel good about the direction the organization's going.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

We got the going in the right direction. And with that rebuilding, who are some of the names who you can give us who are going to be big parts of that?

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Well, Hagan Smith, obviously, you guys know very well, left-handed pitcher out of the University of Arkansas. He he's just uh he's just a fierce competitor, East Texas kid that uh, you know, he's very, it's it's a very tight, you know, it's him, it's his family, it's baseball. That's what matters to him. Uh, we we took a kid, Billy Carlson, uh, last year out of Corona High School in in LA. That I'm not saying that the offensive profile certainly isn't the same, but but defensively, it's it's Bobby Witt Jr. This kid can really play shortstop. We took a kid in the second round named Justin Foskey last year out of Nazareth Academy, where actually Jim Tomey's son plays and he coaches, and he's a Grady Sizemore type profile. Um, you know, having the number one pick in the draft this year, there's certainly you know the LeBron kid Alabama, Cholowski out of UCLA, the Emerson kid at Fort Worth Christian, um, the Jacob Lombard in Miami. So that's going to be another good player. And so uh just just continue to to to inch by inch, piece by piece, putting it all together, uh, you know, it's it's certainly been a big part of us moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Well, in in today's world, Gene, I've known you for 30 years. The game has changed so much at the at the big league level, at the minor league level. How does scouting change of what you look for? Because you know, in the past, you know, there's talk about five tool guys. Guy can run, guy can throw, guy can do this. You know, with what's out there now and and everything that's involved with that, but the computer, the IT world, how has it changed in the scouting world to determine what what the where you think a player may fit in and how his career may go?

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, it it's it's a lot. And I I think I think the days of you know, me going into a ballpark and coming away and recommending a player and feeling the it's not that anymore. It's it's you know, you've got such a collaborative effort, and and every organization is kind of different in what they value information-wise. Uh, for me, the heart and the mind of the player and and that that timeline of the player is always still going to be the most important thing. And I I think there's plenty of examples in the major leagues of guys that were can't miss guys that it just didn't work for them, and there were guys that can't miss, it didn't actually happen at the pace, and that 28 years old, you know, it turned for them. You look at Nelson Cruz, Ryan Ludwig, you look at, you know, Brent Rooker and what he's been able to do, Cole Reagan and what he's been able to do. These guys were talented players that didn't necessarily have an easy path. And so being able to connect the dots and have the history with the player and understand the heart of the mind of the player, but also having the research and development aspect of them seeing the vision of the player and what they think they can do to make that player better. All 30 teams have the same information. How you transfer the information and who it is transferring the information and the buy-in between the player and the coach, the coach in the front office has become a really important part of the player acquisition vehicle. So uh, you know, we we I've never worked a day in my time without um analytics being a part of it because Eddie Epstein, my first boss with the Padres, was one of the pioneers of it. It's evolved, it's continued to evolve, it's going to continue to evolve, but it's never been anything that I've not had in my time. And I had breakfast with A.J. Hinch four weeks ago, and we were talking about this, and he said it so perfectly. Um, it's RD's job to protect scouting, it's scouting uh job to protect RD. And when you have to have that debate, you debate it, and then you present the information to the general manager, and he makes the best possible decision that you can make. But that's on the individual player standpoint. To me, there's still the aspect of building a team. And when you look at the teams that win, there's so much harmony within the clubhouse that there's such a killer aspect uh to the makeup of the team. And you guys know all this. I'm not telling you something y'all haven't all been a part of. You know when you're on those special teams that when we show up tonight, we're gonna beat your rear. And so that beyond the the analytical or scouting evaluation of the player, there's still the aspect of building that championship culture and that championship team that when you get into October, man, it's a dogfight, and you better have 26 guys that are that are ready to play in the war.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

But it isn't it, it just goes back to the eye test. I mean, you can look, I can look at a player's numbers and and analytics all day long, but you still have to see the kid and be able to talk to the kid or the players in the minor leagues and and understand that that what type of ball player they are.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

100%. And and I'll I'll tell y'all just a quick story off of last night. You know, we we have two kids on Italy, Sam Antonacci and uh Kyle Teal, and I walk over to their side to see them last night, and they were like junkyard dogs. And you guys have seen it. Those players that have the look in their eyes, they both hit home runs, they're both tremendously talented players. But you guys have all known when you show up at the ballpark and that team across the dugout has the look in their eyes, and they had the look in their eyes last night. And that that's such an important part of it because in October, you know, the four World Series I've been a part of, we could have lost all four, won all four, the two we lost, we could have won, and vice versa. And there was always this one little moment in each series that that was the defining moment where the character and the makeup of the team and the the killer instinct of the player has to come in. And so I think it's it's beyond the evaluation, it's still a really important part. You look at the Dodgers and what they've done, and everybody wants to throw the throw it at the money, and it's not the money. They they have an identity, their minor league system works tirelessly. They draft 25 to 30 every year. They they do a tremendous job in the draft. And and those guys in October, it doesn't matter what where they are on the point of a series, there's just no quit. They're not going to stop fighting, and that's why they're back-to-back world champions and a chance to win a third this year.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

You know, Gina, I the other thing that I wanted to get to, I've I'm looking at my notes here with questions to ask. You've been in this a long time. The development and the assigning of athletes, and and we don't have as many kids going out and playing baseball as we used to, and the draft is has gotten smaller. There's not as many minor league systems that's over the area or teams, so it's really hard to develop. You don't have 200 people in your organization, 200 players that you're trying to get a place for them to play and let them see if they can grow and whatever. So it's it's really everything has sort of been so intensified. Um it has made it more difficult. If you were had a young player that was 14, 15 years old, love the game, what where how would he go about just playing high school? Is it summer? I'm trying to figure out how we keep people playing the game of baseball. I love it, it's been a major part of my life, and I I just see the amount of participation going down.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Keith, there's nothing that's more important to me. You know, I wake up every day trying to grow the game, and I'm really, really concerned about where we are as a game. You know, I had a son that played six years of minor league baseball that in today's system he wouldn't play a day. You know, he he since he retired, he's been an area scout. Now he's a professional scout with the Angels. And, you know, if he doesn't play, he doesn't get those opportunities. So to me, it's more than just about the major league player. It's about growing the game and what it does for our game as entirety. And and and in my opinion, we've given our game away. And I think our amateur system is as broke as it could ever be. And what's sad to me is is that we we have a generation of parents now who went through it as a player and understands the positives and negatives of travel ball, select ball, and and where its true value lies. And we just continue to keep giving the game away and outsourcing it to people that it's all about the money. Uh, and it's it's not about development, it's not about the growth of the game, it's not about teaching the kids how to play, it's about how much money can I make. And so much of it lacks credibility. There's just no credibility, but but there's nobody to educate the families, and every family that joins to signs up to play baseball every year, they they just want to keep up with the Joneses. And and and and it's my belief, and you guys went through this system, and I went through this system. If all you ever do is play for your high school team, you're going to be found. There's not a high school coach in America that has a good player that doesn't want that player to succeed and do well and be a part of that player's journey. But we just feel like we got to go to this showcase and we got to go to that showcase and we got to spend here, we got to play for this team. And I was an early part of the select uh process at 15 and 16 in 1994. I had one of the first 15, 16-year-old select teams in Texas, and and my kids didn't pay to play. And I went out and got a bunch of athletes, and four of them end up being decent players. But but had I not done that, if they're just playing for their high school teams, they would have been seen. But everything has become so much about the perception and the parents being able to say, well, my kid plays for this team or my kid plays for that team. And it has nothing to do with their ability in between the white lines and how they're growing and developing as a player. Look at Paul Skins. Paul Skins was a position player at the Air Force Academy, transfers to LSU Mound, and turns into the best pitcher in the world. That has nothing to do with who he played for in select baseball at 15, 16, 17, 18 years old. And so I just, I mean, you just really struck a chord with me because nothing means more to me than growing the game and keeping kids playing baseball. But but you know, it's it's not happening right now. We've cut rounds, we've cut teams, you you add the NIL money to the situation. Guys have made two, three million dollars in college. They're not going to go kick it around in the lower levels of the minor leagues. You're right. They're gonna they're gonna go to work and go do other things. And so I I really uh I'll be long gone before we see it, but I'm really concerned about the future of our game right now.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

When you go out and um look at players, look at high school players, college players, what are those things that you are looking at when you go see a player? I know you probably watch every move they make just to see how they conduct themselves, but what's that one thing that you go out and really see in a ball player?

SPEAKER_01 21:28

The the biggest focus that I focus on is how do their teammates interact with them? What kind of teammate are they? You know, we we've been rolling, Jim Tomey and I have been rolling pretty good on the top 10. And the first thing we we we do without talking to the coach, because the teammates will tell you. Like they're gonna tell you how they interact. Do they fist pump them? Do they are they cheering for them? Are they pulling for them? They're gonna tell you what kind of teammate they are. And in my opinion, when you're talking about playing for the Chicago White Sox, that's the most important thing. You've got to blend into who we are as an organization. And an identity culturally. And so that's a big piece of it because if you have three players on the board that are all of equal ability, you're going to go with a guy that fits in. And so that's number one. And just the ability to apply their tools. They could have all the power in the world. Can they apply it? They can really run. Can they use their legs in their approach? Do they know how to steal bases? All of those things are really, really important. But we have so much information now that it's not really hard to, you know, I have fun speaking to kids. When I go to these groups and speak to kids, I'll always pull somebody aside and I'll say, hey, tell me about that kid right there. And they'll they'll tell me everything about him. And so then when I speak to the group, I'll make the kid stand up and I'll say everything I know about that kid right in front of them. And it took like five minutes to figure out. And that's that's the thing that that guys don't realize is like the information is everywhere now, and and ultimately what kind of teammate you are and and how you handle you. Look at major league careers that are being cut short because they're bad teammates and no nobody wants them on their team. So that's certainly the most important part for us.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

That's um, I'm going out and coaching this summer at the the new wooden bat league in Texas, the Cowboys Collegiate League. And uh, we're talking through texting through college coaches, junior college coaches, and that's the one thing. I mean, they can tell us um what kind of player they are, but that's one of the first questions we ask is how good is he in the dugout and the locker room? Because that's that's one of the most important things to me, like you said.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

You're on the bus together. I mean, I'm telling you guys this. Y'all know better than anybody. You're on the bus together, you're on the planes together, you're in the hotels together. You want to you want to be able to share it and enjoy it. And it's it's uh it's sad the players that careers get cut short because they don't know how to be a good teammate.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Oh, no question. We all question. I mean, I'm gonna ask both of you at me because I know Greg, you're involved in what's going on uh with the summer league and everything. I I have still yet to understand. Uh, you know, obviously Major League Baseball is cut down on how many people they have in the organization or whatever. Uh is it because we can't manufacture the bats that we do not get wooden bats in college baseball? I think it just would be such it because it's the proving ground now. I mean, minor league baseball's sort of falling to the wayside, but college baseball is in is stepped up and there's more people staying because they're not being drafted in Pro Bowl in the 17th round and deciding that they want to sign and go give this a shot. Because our, you know, there's not a 40th round like there used to be. Uh I just try to I'm trying to figure out why we can't get to a point where uh we see more of that in in college baseball with the wooden bat, or just try them in certain tournaments and do different things. I I don't understand it because there is a huge difference in pitching to the end of the barrel or to the handle. Because in, you know, you have a wooden bat, pitchers are going to pitch the handle.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah, it's certainly become a synthetic game in college baseball. I think you look at the power numbers and the offense production, even in the first three weeks, and I I've only seen UCLA and TCU to this point, but my gosh, I mean, Rock Cholowski hits a ball out the other way in the marine air, and he's certainly got big power. But uh I I I think the expense is the biggest thing. I do think there are enough venues that guys are are getting seen with the wood bat. But but again, you guys know this better than anybody. Like the separator is the Latin American pitcher in Pro Ball. They they don't even know where the University of Texas or UCLA is. They're from Caracas, you're right. They're throwing 98 on the corner with a power slider, and and and when you start to implement that into professional baseball with the Woodbat, that's certainly the equalizer for me.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Well, I can tell you, it it's some of these kids that I look at and they go, Oh, yeah, he can hit. And I go, well, until he gets one of these things broke off in his hands, because trust me, J.R. Richards comes at you and hits you with a fastball in your hands, and you feel it.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

And you guys you guys have seen enough first-round picks that have failed. And and you you you never know. I mean, these guys are 17, 18 years old, you're giving them five to ten million dollars. They're gonna be away from home for the first time, playing in 119-degree weather in the backfields of Arizona, facing those kids they've never seen before in their life. And and I I'll even say this about Bobby Witt Jr. When they had me see him for the first time in Kansas City, it was the day after the Super Bowl, he didn't have a great day, and and I'm having dinner with our scouting director the next day, and I said, Look, the I don't the look wasn't good. He's obviously certainly talented, but the question you have to ask yourself is when he's on the backfields facing those power arms and 119 to brothers, and he's homesick and he's got all this money and time, how are they gonna respond to that? And that's ultimately the biggest question you can ask about any of your draft picks or any of your international signs is how are they gonna assimilate into professional baseball? That's such a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Are we ever going to get back to where command is better than velocity?

SPEAKER_01 27:18

I think it's coming. I really do. I think that I think that teams are seeing so many injuries. Uh, but again, the way we outsource our pitching in the wintertime. I mean, everybody, you got 12, 13 years of, and I I was having this conversation yesterday with a scout from the Chicago Cubs. Like, we you never got hurt. I mean, pitchers, you know, they Kurt Dressendorfer pitched forever. He he got hurt a lot at the end, but like his high school and college career, he was super healthy. And and I just think the chase for velocity um has it's never about you know, throwing the strikes, landing your breaking ball, controlling the running game, the competitive spirit. It's all about velocity. And I think kids would rather throw 95 and fell than throw 90 to 93 and throw strikes and maybe have to work through trouble a little bit more. But I think teams are really starting to recognize the number of injuries. We're talking about expansion right now in Major League Baseball. Can you imagine 26 more pitchers at the Major League level right now and what that's gonna do to the offense of baseball? And so I think that I think there are enough smart people, enough medical teams, sports science teams uh that are understanding that um it's more than just velocity. And I tell parents I I non-prospect 95 every day. Every day, there's guys that this isn't a carnival. You got to be able to do more than just throw 95 miles an hour, but it's become so sexy to say you throw 95, and then you you hear they know throw 95 and you go watch them and they're 88 to 91. So it's that's a whole nother problem in and of itself. But uh I think they're they're doing a lot to try to improve the health. They're they're spending a lot of time on it, but relative to when we played, um, you got more money, more information, more sports science, more strength and conditioning, more everything, and we have more injuries. And it just it's it should be the other way around.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

It's like um I was watching the the world baseball classic and in 2016, I believe. I had that uh I probably messed up his last name, but Andres Satorya from from Czech. Yeah, I had him, I had him when he was 14-15. And to watch what he did go out and throw four and two-thirds shutout against Japan, and that's why I bring up the command thing. I think he was throwing below the radar. He was throwing it so slow that they had a tough time picking it up. But I mean, that's one thing. I mean, you're going against the number one in the world, Japan, and you don't break 80 and you throw four and two-thirds shutout. That's what that's what I'm gonna preach.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

We're gonna put a statue of him up in Japan. He's a hero over there now. Oh, yeah. That's what makes this tournament so great. That's what makes the tournament so great. Stories like him.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

I thought it was great to see. I tweeted it and said he went from an electrician in the daytime to a magician at night.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

I've been a part of the last two with the Marlins in 03 and Kansas City in 15. And I think you have to be very calculated in the build. You have to be very calculated in building the foundation, and then you have to know when it's time to go. You know, when you're ready to win a World Series, you don't pick the time, the time picks you. And you can play it safe, and you can win your 86 games and get to the first round and draw 3 million, and everybody writes great things about your system, but you're never gonna win. And there, there are, I feel like we're one of the few organizations in the world that celebrate um sustainability and mediocrity and just like it's all about the future. At some point, you got to push in. And if you look at Kansas City's situation from the time in 15 to two years ago when they made the playoffs, like we traded away 28 prospects to win that world championship. And it would have been easy just to get to the first or second round and draw every night and keep that good system, but but the goal was to win a world championship. And so I feel like that more than you know, like Seattle's gonna be very good this year, Toronto's gonna be really strong this year, the National League West is gonna be a dogfight. I mean, that's gonna be an incredible division. You're gonna have a lot of improved teams in both centrals. I still think Detroit is kind of the class of the AL Central. Um, but until we get to a point to where teams are going, okay, look, maybe we win, maybe we don't. But if we don't push in, we got no chance. Uh, I think it's gonna be the same, same uh teams because they're gonna be able to make the three moves to your one that make their team better. And and and I've said this forever. Like when I'm 65 at Dishfalkfield with you guys watching the horns, you know, I want to be able to say, hey, we did everything we could to win two and hopefully a third world championship. I don't want to hear about you know winning 14 straight division titles and never winning a World Series, which Atlanta did win one, but they're not remembered for the 14. They're remembered for the one. And until we we get back in this industry to where competition and winning a world championship matters, uh, I don't think there's gonna be a lot of push in. And I think that that's something that we we don't have the George. Jim Crane is the closest thing to George Steinbrenner that there is. His expectations drive the results. What they did last year was absolutely incredible. He expects to win the World Series every year, makes no excuses for it. And and you know, he's the closest thing to George Steinbrenner that we know in our game. And so until we can get back to the competitive side of the game, I think it's gonna be the same cast of characters until the Chicago White Sox are ready to win.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Well, we appreciate you taking the time. We know you're a very busy man, especially with everything going on right now, getting ready for the season, um, taking time out to join Zeke and Zonk, a couple of old buddies here for you. And um, yeah, appreciate everything you're doing for the game and coming on with us today.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

I can't, you guys. I mean, the 15-year-old version of me is in all right now. I love you guys so much, and you guys don't know how much you guys have impacted my life. And that's the thing. Like, I remember uh Greg Swindell coming out of the bullpen and me asking him how to throw his curveball and you get showing me that spike grip, and it changed my career. And and and just watching you get a lifelong Cub fan. I mean, like you guys are idols to me, and I certainly appreciate you know you guys allowing to be on it, and I look forward to seeing you. I'll be in Austin for the Alabama series. Look forward to seeing you guys there. Thank you guys. Take care. Thanks so much. Welcome. Bye bye.