The Secrets to Developing Future Baseball Stars | Butch Chaffin

In this engaging episode of Inside the Game, Greg Swindell and Keith Moreland Zeke and Zonk sit down with  baseball expert, Butch Chaffin, to discuss the intricacies of the game, the timing of international tournaments, player development, and the importance of mental toughness and proper training. They share personal stories, insights on player growth, and opinions on how to improve youth and professional baseball.

Key  topics:

Timing of international tournaments
Player development and training
Mental toughness and approach
Arm strength and injury prevention

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and First Impressions
01:11 Reflections on the World Baseball Classic
03:14 The Grind of Baseball Season
08:17 Butch's Journey in Coaching and USA Baseball
11:12 The Importance of Youth Development in Baseball
16:16 Molding Young Athletes: Coaching Philosophy
21:02 Arm Strength and Injury Prevention in Young Players
22:16 The Evolution of Young Talent in Baseball
26:23 Hitting Techniques and Strategies for Success
35:19 Coaching Philosophy and Building Relationships
38:16 Personal Stories and Patriotism in Sports
43:02 Reflections on the World Baseball Classic

 guest links

Twitter - https://twitter.com/ButchChaffin
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/butchchaffin/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Yeah, welcome to Zeke and Zonk Inside the Game, another episode. I'm Greg Swindelli, he's Keith Moreland. We got a special guest today, Butch Schafin. I've known Butch maybe 21 total days in my life, and I fell in love with the man. We were at the uh the uh PDP camps in um Carey, North Carolina, and this man he he can he can speak to young men, he can coach young men and gets his point across, and he really made an impression on me for those couple of weeks that we've spent together. And uh man, it's it's good to see you, but you got your U.S. hat on, USA hat on. I know last night wasn't the results we wanted, but um, we're still proud of those young men.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

It's good to see you, man, and I I feel the same way about you. You know, uh you go through life and every now and then you bump into people and you have instant connection. I felt that way about you.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Well, we were just talking before we came on about uh the game last night. Um thought the U.S. could have had an opportunity, but things things uh I mean it happens. Like you said, I saw your tweet. It happens, it's baseball, and that's the way it goes. Venezuela was the best team last night.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Uh, there's no doubt about it, you know, and uh USA uh win or lose, still proud to be associated with it, but uh they didn't hit, they really didn't hit, and that's a tough ask. Uh but they really didn't hit the whole tournament.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Which one of the things I want to ask you Yeah, I I I one of the things that that I want to talk about, I mean, is uh is this the time of the year that we should be doing this? I just just throw my hands up and go, you know, uh these guys are trying to get ready. I mean, you teach the game, we've all been around the game, we've all taught the game, but I I never was ready in March for what was going to take place during a regular season. And this event is so important, I can't believe that we can't find a different time to play it.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

I agree with you. Uh, and you better than anyone, I mean you would know better than anyone. Uh it used to be guys came to spring training to get in shape to play, and now you got to get there, you're fighting for your job and you're you're playing for money, and uh you got to be ready to go uh when you get there to impress people. And I I I just think uh I agree a hundred percent with you. I wish there was a way that they could work it out, but you know, the world baseball classic WBC, that's MLB driven, and uh they're trying to fit it in, you know, on the front end to get everybody excited about baseball. And I think uh, you know, people watch the world baseball classic who are just casual and they get into it, and hopefully it propels them into you know watching uh regular season games. And I again uh Keith, uh the the thing about our game, and you you and Zeke can attest to this, uh the beauty of our game is and I hate to use it because it's so cliche, is it is a grind. It's 162 games, it's meant to wear you down. And I think in today's society, uh, you know, this uh microwave drive-thru society we're in where you order your food and you want it right now, uh it's really hard for people to go through a hundred and sixty-two-game grind. Uh I think that's the beauty of our game. Uh, that you gotta play it, man. You two, you two know. Uh the only day you felt 100% was probably when you woke up on Christmas Day. And from then on out, it was downhill. And uh, you know, Zeke, he's he's a pitcher, so I know uh he's got to check the temperature in a hotel room and make sure it's just right. And the first thing he does when he wakes up is he kind of flexes his arm out to see where it is that morning. And Keith, you got out of bed probably, and the first thing you wanted to do, it took you about five minutes to stand up uh because you were checking your back uh to make sure you could get your swings in today. Uh, but it it is a grind. And uh, you know, is there a good place to put it? Uh obviously you'd like to you'd like to have it after our guys had 500 at bats, uh, but you know, it's MLB driven and it's meant to be a show, an exhibition. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah, just to follow up to that, though, that here's the other thing. And most of these other countries, they're playing winter ball. These guys are coming off playing. So, you know, I I know that for me, if if somebody told me that we're, you know, I'd love to represent the United States but and and play in the game, but I've got to do that in March. That's gonna be a little bit more difficult. Let me do that in July. I mean, when I'm you know I've got 200 at bats or 250 at bats under my belt and I'm ready to rock and roll. I I just I I don't know where they can find a way to do it, but uh I I I think it's all we're always gonna be a little bit behind in in that sense. And I don't I know I know we the game was created here, but my gosh, you know, I still think we're behind a little bit playing it when they play it here in spring training.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Uh I agree with you, and uh you saw, I think this was interesting, and I could see it from this perspective. I think that uh a lot of other guys couldn't. Uh the guys that were having good numbers. You could tell uh it meant a lot to all of them, and all of them wanted to play. Uh, but you saw the guys that were really bearing down. Those are kids that came up through the USA system. Uh, you know, Tarang. Tarang, probably, you know, a casual fan didn't even know who Tarang was. And, you know, I I've known Tarang and his father, his father, Brian Brian, played left field when King Griffey was in center field with the Mariners. Uh and I've known uh Little T since uh probably he was like 13 years old, and then uh Bryce Harper. I've known Bryce Harper since he's 14 years old, and Pete Crow Armstrong. Uh you know, the first time I saw him play, uh he was just a dynamic defender and just a playmaker. And Skeens, this is a good story. Skeens was on our 12U national team as a catcher. Yep. Didn't pitch. He was a little fat catcher, and cried the first two days because he missed his mom. And then you see him out there just a warrior, a legitimate warrior, uh, you know, doing that. And it makes you super proud. But you're right. Uh a lot of those guys are playing winter ball, and uh our guys are getting off the couch a couple weeks early and taking a few swings off the T and trying to get to play in this giant tournament. Uh, and it comes down to pitching, and you know how that is. Uh, a lot of front offices are limiting how guys, how many times they can appear. Uh obviously, you know, you want Mason Miller in, but uh the Padre said he could only pitch one inning in a safe situation, and there's not going to be a safe uh situation uh like last night. So you've got to go with Wit. And Wit's an incredible arm. Um but you know, you see, you you're thinking, uh, you know, I'm not I'm not making excuses. I'm doing what if? What if Scoobyl's on the mound last night? And somehow he, you know, the limit last night was 95 pitches. And what if he stretches it out and gives us 80 and goes five complete shutout innings? What kind of game is it then when Bryce Harper hits the home run uh, you know, to tie it up? But if if we get shutout ball, obviously we could do what if. But, you know, what if Bryce Harper's home run would have been probably the most monumental thing in USA baseball if Schoogle plays and goes shut out innings. But you know, that's what if.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

But we jumped right into the baseball part. You you're on spring break right now. You're still teaching you've been teaching what over 30 something years. 40 years. Wanted to get you last week, be like, brother, I'm still I'm I'm in class right now. Teaching that sociology, baby. 40 years. You tell your kids not to be on your phone during class, and here you are talking to me on the phone. But yeah, I mean that um spring break that gave you a little break during the year right now, but it's you've been at this a long time.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

I always tell people this when I got into USA baseball like 20 years ago, uh, I didn't know what I was doing. You know, I was just a high school coach who had done a couple things, and uh I knew I wasn't hot stuff, but uh I go to the airport, they go, Butch, go to the airport and pick up the last two kids coming in from California, and I'm like, okay, you know, and I'm thinking, wow, they let they trusted me with a minivan. And uh I go to the airport to I go to the airport there in Raleigh, and uh I park in a fire zone, and the security guy looks at me, and I've got the USA polo, and he goes, USA baseball? And I went, yes, sir. And he goes, All right, I won't give you a ticket. Man, I was feeling like I was the commissioner of baseball. And I go in and I'm looking around and I see uh the shorter, shorter dude, and this real skinny, tall dude, and I go, Hey, are you guys here for USA Baseball? And they said, Yes, sir. And I said, Alright, get in the van. I get them in the van, I go, what's your name? And uh one of them goes, uh Mike Mustakis, and the other one goes Freddie Freeman. So the first two guys I picked up at the airport were Freeman and Mustakis. That's pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Sometimes you talk about the Crow Armstrong and Harper's and these guys recently. I mean, you you've had some some pretty good players come through that program too. I'm uh Bryce Eldridge. I mean, that that kid was a stud. And the one I'm waiting on is um God, I just I just looked his name up. My little second baseman playing a shortstop for the Mariners now in the minor leagues. Colt Emerson. Yes, Colt Emerson. I mean, these guys are going to be studs, I in my opinion, that have come through the program of USA baseball.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

100% agree with you. You know, we had Colt Emerson on uh 12U team that I was uh the hitting coach for, and we took him to Taiwan, and you know, you could see it right then, Colt Emerson. He had the he had the perfect makeup, perfect team kid, kept his mouth closed, spoke when he needed to speak, but his skills were off the chart. And then we see him grown up in 23, and you know, when you saw him, um and just phenomenal tools. The tools are just off the chart. He's he, you know, he stays healthy, but he's been really lucky so far. Uh he'll be a big leader for a long time, I think.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

I told I told them all when when we left camp that time, I said, I'm gonna call you one of these days for tickets. Don't forget about me, all right? I want some tickets to see a ball game. But Don Keith, you you had some U.S. experience while you went down to play in the Pan Am games back in the day?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

No, we went to Japan uh uh with Coach Dado years ago, and when you wear that USA on your chest, it's pretty impressive. Uh uh it's an unbelievable feeling to uh be able to do that and went with some really good players that you know that went with us and uh it was a heck of an experience, but you know, I I'm gonna I'm gonna go back a little bit and talk about uh some of the things that Greg, you and I talk about. I mean, trying to keep kids in the game and making sure they're healthy and the things they need to learn. Uh just walk us through what you would try to tell a parent that had an athlete uh that's a 10 or 11 years old that really wants to get involved in baseball.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

I'd just say, you know, we are in this different time period, and you know, Zeke and Yu Zonk. When you were in Little League, can you remember stretching? You just showed up and you played catch and kind of threw high flies to each other, and then you went out and just dominated the game. That was what you were trying to do. Uh, I think uh your competitive spirit was probably better a lot of the time than the kids today. I think kids today are in love with training. And, you know, they they love to lift, they love to hit in the cage, they love to take ground balls, and then you put a guy on the bump uh who's throwing, you know, high velocity, high spin, and now it becomes a different, it's a different animal. I think baseball, you know, there's training and there's playing, and we see a ton of kids that are really good at training, and then you put them in that competitive environment, and you kind of see them wilt because many times they're not mentally, you know, they're not mentally tough enough. I think right now, I had three daughters and I've got five grandkids, and one of my uh uh grandkids, I only have one boy, and he lives in Arizona, and I think he's gonna be a lineman for the Arizona Cardinals, but anyway, he's one. Uh but uh if I were, you know, to bring him up, uh I I don't think I'd baby him, but man, we'd start working on the mental game and the approach first. I think in the United States, uh we take little kids and we tell them to swing as hard as they can and swing at everything, and then someplace along the line when they turn like 15 or 14, 15, 16, 17, when they get in high school, we start teaching them an approach because the ball starts getting there in a hurry. Uh I I think we kind of do it backwards. Uh I I would I would teach, you know, I I would recommend that they start learning the approach. Uh everybody's got a swing coach, but few guys have a hitting coach. Uh, you know, and you know, I I I don't know how much you guys work with players, but you probably be really good working with players because you understand how important the approach to pitching, the approach to hitting is. And you'd work that really early if you were working with kids. And uh, you know, that's what we uh uh when we're doing USA stuff, um, you know, we we try to drill into their head and hit them in the heart, club them over the head with USA stuff, and get into that approach stuff really early. You know, divide the plate in half. This guy, he's high V low, high spin, uh, but he doesn't throw spin early in the count. So look for fastball early in the count. Stuff like that. Um I think it's a gift if you get young kids that actually can sit and watch the game and try to dissect it. Um, you know, I was a high school player, I was a college player, and uh I couldn't hit sliders. Uh and like all little kids, I thought it was gonna be a big leader, big leader. And I I'll never forget I faced, you guys will know this. When I was in college, I was a freshman in college, and one of my first at bats, it was like 30 degrees, and there was a guy on the mound, left-hander, and he threw me left-handed slider, and it started in the zone, then ended up on my back foot. I remember telling the catcher, throw that again. I want to see that again. And uh struck out, struck out on three sliders and went to the dugout, looked up on the card, and it was Tom Browning. And I was like, Yeah, uh, yeah, I probably I'm not gonna be a big leader, guys. I remember telling my roommate, I'm not gonna be a big leader. Uh I can't hit that. But so I started paying more attention to the coaching side.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

And that's the thing, what's what what was it about the high school level for you? Is um is it the the the age where you you can really get into their their head, their brain, and then just make things happen for them at a young age?

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Yeah, I loved being a high school coach because uh I saw them as clay and you can mold them, and as the head coach, I could determine what we worked on. And but my favorite times, I love team practice, but my favorite things were uh grabbing a kid or two after practice and walking them to the cage and uh working on stuff or getting them well one-on-one with the pitcher and you know, going, Hey, um, you know, I think if you throw a two seam instead of a four-seam, you might have a little sink on it. Uh slide your thumb up a little on the side of the ball and see if you can make this thing sink. And they would, and they get that result and they go, you know, wow, coach. And and then you see them go into a game and uh uh use that pitch and get guys out and get ground balls and just be happy, the joy. And I've always been about the joy, uh the joy of working with people and being around people and meeting people like you. I I really enjoy that. And um, you know, I I was a guy, Zeke, I was a guy just like everybody else. I had ego. I had ego early as a young coach, and when I learned to put my ego away uh and get to know people and pick their brain, that's uh when I that's when I took off with the coach.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Keith, you're back. I am back. Can you hear me?

unknown 17:35

You can't hear me.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Can't hear me. We got you. Can you hear me now? You can hear me. Okay, you know, I I I didn't get to hear your final answer, but uh you know, the other part that I wanted to go to, and and Greg and I have talked about this so many times is arm strength and building arm strength and vO as you were talking about. You know, did kids just go out and just throw anymore? Just go throw? I mean, I I I remember going as often as I could pick a ball up, and and I think that's why I built arm strength.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Yeah, um, you know, Alan Jager's a good friend of mine. He's the like the throw guru. And I learned from him years ago. I was a high school coach for 30 years, and in 30 years, uh, we had one arm, one arm injury, one surgery. And I think if you teach them, you know, to stay away from second-day soreness, and Zeke knows this. Zeke uh uh spent some time as a bullpen arm, and you learn all the little tricks on uh how not to get that soreness in your arm. You throw every day, and uh Alan Jager's big into, and I became big into uh let your arm talk to you, let it let it do what it wants to do, don't limit it by distance cones or days or numbers. And you'd see my high school team, and that's one thing we could do was throw. And my guys would long toss every day and they throw. Uh, you know, and we never really had arm injuries. I think you get in trouble, and uh I think you get in trouble when you put limits on the arm. You know, and Jim Cott, I I met Mr. Cott one time, and Jim Cott told me we were sitting there talking in an airport, and he told me uh it'll rust off before it falls off. And that's always stuck with me. You know, if a kid wants to throw, let him throw, let it eat. And you know, I I'll be 63 years old in May, and I still throw. I still love to throw. And I don't throw like I did, but man, I can throw 55 feet BP all day. I think my arm's never been stronger. Uh but uh I I I think our game is a throw game, just like basketball's a shooting game. If you are practicing basketball and you're not shooting all the time, you know, or making passes, what are you doing? I think in our game you've got to be able to throw. It hurts my heart when I see uh uh Keith. It hurts my heart when I see a 12-year-old DH and he's locked in there for the rest of his life.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yeah, I I I I I just don't understand that the the thought is we're gonna put you on this throwing program. Well, why not pick the ball up every day? And and I mean, I always felt that the My soreness came from inactivity more than activity. I guess that's the best way to put it.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Exactly. I agree a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

That's right. In the big league, 17 years, and we had off days. I didn't I didn't like off days. I had a net that I would attach to my arm and and throw in in my hotel room because I I just didn't want, I didn't, especially if I was gonna start the day after an off day. I did not want a full day off. I wanted to go out, get the blood flow going, throw a little bit and see what happened. So yeah, I'm and to your point too, Coach. I I never wanted I never want to take a day off.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Exactly. And I think as a high school coach, you hear people go off day, and I think the coach is thinking, give their legs a rest, you know, get them off their feet. Uh, but in reality, you never I I don't think you ever want to have a day where you don't throw, especially, you know, in season. It may be short, it could be tosses, but you have to have that range of motion and that, you know, throwing. It it needs to happen a lot.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

And you need to, and and and the other part of that is for for me, as I tell them all the time, you need to throw from different directions and different styles, because one may be long and a long toss that stretches out and has a different release point, and one you might be a short throw because the game, it's no telling what kind of throw you're going to make it during a ballgame. So there's different different things that you you know you need to be able to do and be able to control. And you know, I it makes me amazes me to watch collegiate pitchers, especially. It's amazing. I can't believe they can throw 96 to home plate and throw a strike, but they can't throw it over to first base and get it accurately. And that's because they don't practice it.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Right. You know, and uh in 2010 we had Lindor and we were going to Canada to play the World Championships, and we it was the longest tour in the history of USA. I mean, we were on the road for like six weeks, and we were in Minnesota forever. I thought I was gonna have to apply for citizenship in Minnesota. Uh and I would hit I would hit Lindor ground balls, and he would finish, he would finish every day with throwing from like across his body and bizarre angles, going away from first base, making jump throws, those jeter type throws. And he ended every day, you know, throwing from down under, you know, throwing from where he fielded it from. Uh and then I saw it was funny, uh, several years later, we have Bobby Witt, who Bobby Witt Jr. is the best baseball player I've ever seen, like stood next to. He he is incredible. Uh he can do everything. Coffeeville, Texas kid. Uh he was 97 miles an hour off the mount. Uh he could have pitched in the big leagues. Uh, but he he's such a phenomenal athlete, and he did the same thing, throw from different angles. Uh he loved going forehand, throwing to first. So he would go behind second base and like contort his body around and make that throw. And uh, you know, he he he was phenomenal. And those guys, and Zeke's seen this, those USA kids, man, their arms show up every day because they're on that travel circuit and they throw every day. And there's got to be something to that, you know, throwing a lot. I agree with you, you know, Keith. I agree with you uh a hundred percent on that.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

That's funny you brought up Bobby Witt Jr. because I played with Bobby, his dad, and then played against him a little bit. And he brought him one time, well, I remember when he was born, walking around the clubhouse in Arizona. Um, but he he brought him to a game I was broadcasting, and they brought in a note said Bobby Witt wants to talk to you. And so I went out and he introduced me, and I didn't, you know, I okay, hey Junior, yeah, you're getting you're a big kid now. You're getting big, and Bobby's like, oh, he's gonna be good, he's gonna be at number one, blah, blah, blah. And like, I didn't know if that was dad talking or what was it, and then all of a sudden he's in the state championship. He pitched the first game, played, hit, got four hits, came in and closed the second game, so pretty much won the state championship for Collieville. Um, not by himself, but pretty much by himself, and then uh went on to be uh what he is now, and it's just amazing just to see the athleticism in that that young man because he he is he um he makes it look easy. And and I think that's a testament of coming maybe through the USA baseball um program.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Uh he's he's always been a high-level player and he's always been a really good player. But the thing about Bobby is Bobby will not back away from a challenge. I guarantee, you know, this USA that that meant a lot to him to be the starting shortstop for the national team again. Uh you know, when he was at the on the ATU team, uh Anthony Volpe was the other shortstop. And uh I remember I I hit him ground balls, and uh AV is this he's a great human being. He's just a sweet kid. And he ran in, he goes, Coach, that's the best shortstop I've ever seen in my life. And I went, he's pretty good. I said, What are you gonna do? And he goes, I'm about to be the best second baseman you've ever seen. And he slid over in that tournament, and uh, you know, I think that's the uh uh Zeke, that's the team that uh Jack Leggett, who used to be a Clemson coach, and I remember calling him, I was the uh cross-checking scout, and I said, Your best players are 16 years old. And he goes, No, I want an old team, and I went, No, you want these 16-year-olds. And it was Volpe and Witt and Pete Crow Armstrong. And I said, You your pitching's gonna carry it. You just you need these athletes on your team, and that's that's the team that gave up, I think in nine in nine games, they gave up four runs and they gave up three of them in one inning to Canada.

unknown 26:20

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

All right, let's let's flip it over uh on the other side. If you have uh you have a guy that's not a pitcher but wants to improve what he does offensively, um I mean my thoughts are are are are so much different because they they talk about launch angle and swing, not swing speeds, launch angles, uh all these different things. You know, for me it's it's it's about getting on top of the baseball. I think that the best hitters I saw all got on top of the ball. So just what do y'all work on and what are some of the theories that y'all are working and using to train kids to hit?

SPEAKER_01 27:03

I think uh, you know, I think simple's a skill, and I think if you can speak many different languages, because you're gonna have to work with many different kids with many different mindsets. And we've had kids come through USA baseball who they they didn't want you talking to them, they didn't want to make any kind of adjustment. And I think the the youth amateur game uh is about uh learning a skill and then building on that skill tomorrow and then building on those skills the next day. And I think the pro game, and you can attest to this, the pro the pro game is about how fast can you adjust. Uh you're good at what you do, uh, you you got there for a reason, and now it's about making adjustments. You know, I I would think uh that there are very few guys right now as we speak in Arizona or Florida that are totally rebuilding uh how they play the game and how they swing the bat. Um I think uh zone awareness has become because of all the spin, because of changeups and sliders and sweepers and all these other gyro pitches, you know. Uh um last summer, Zeke, I was really lucky. I was I've I've been the college scout for two years. And last year I got to go to college training camp, so I was with those college guys, and that's freshmen and sophomores. And there's a sophomore at Florida, and his name's Aidan King, and he's their number two behind the Peterson kid. And Aidan King, uh Aiden King is a boss, and he throws this gyro pitch. It's I called it a throw that put away pitch because there's nobody hitting this pitch. And with all this spin, you know, you hear about all the spin rate, 3100 spin rate, 3,000, 2800 spin rate. He had a pitch that he said he'd gotten it down to 45 spin rate. It's kind of like a knuckle change, slider-ish. It it leaves his hand and he just knows it's gonna be down, but it does not rotate a lot, and it's almost unhittable.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

So how does a kid come up with something like that?

SPEAKER_01 29:16

He said he was just playing around playing catch with it, and he said he misgripped it and he threw it, and the guy catching it hit him in the knee, and the kid went down, and Aiden King was like, Oh my gosh, that's I just threw the best pitch ever. But uh, you know, there's so much spin now. I think as a hitter, because of all the different kinds of spin and sync and sweep, uh, good pitchers, you know this. Good pitchers now, they can make the ball go like that, and then they can put you away up here. Uh so I I don't think the forcing's ever been more important because of all the spin that you're seeing. But as a hitter from the hitting side, uh, Keith, what I do is uh I would really hammer zone awareness and getting stuff in the zone. Because you're seeing a lot of guys that swing at stuff out of the zone, they swing at bad pitches. And we know this good hitters, they don't swing a lot because when they swing, they hit. And if you can teach kids discipline and you know, swinging strikes and take balls as simple as that sounds, uh, that's pretty pretty sound philosophy. And you know, it takes concentration and it does take work.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

Yeah, but strikes pitching. You get ahead of them and you get them out with the ball. Make them go out of the zone. That's that was the way I looked at it. I wanted to get ahead of them over the plate and then put them away off the plate.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

When you when you so many kids, though, that when I talk, I mean, talking to high school kids and then watching some college kids that we've watched, Greg and I've watched over the years, that uh sometimes you see some guys make some adjustments. Uh Cody Clements was the exactly one that I would think at the University of Texas, I think in his first year, uh his awareness of the strike zone is what caused him so many problems. As he aged, he got better to uh awareness of the strike zone because his his swing and his swing speed and all the all the variables were there. It was just about finding what a ball that he could handle, I guess is the best way to put that.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Yeah, I think, you know, obviously, uh obviously good hitters are multi multi-dimensional when it comes to swinging the bat. They know they have one swing, but they have many different angles. And I think early in the count, uh, you know, they're looking for something they can hit. But what makes them really special is uh, you know, they're not afraid to hit with two strikes. A lot, so many kids are afraid to get to two strikes. Uh they don't know what to do when they get there. We know uh we know that uh I think I heard this from Slosh. Uh 52, 52% of at bats uh are gonna uh you're you're gonna get a pitch ahead, and 52 at bats uh are gonna end up with two strikes. Um you have a guy there at the University of Texas who I've known his dad forever, and I've known him since he was a little boy, and Casey Borba. And Borba has always been all anytime he's tried to be on a USA team, and he was on a USA team, um, anytime he's been on a USA team, he doesn't do like dynamic flashy stuff, but he's always been a really good two-strike hitter, and he's been a clutch hitter uh because he's looking for certain pitches. And you know, I've been around Michael Kadire, and I've been around some good, good, good hitters. Uh Lance Bertman, Big Puma. Uh, and he said some of the best stuff. It was funny. Uh, he tells a story about he was uh with Houston and they were playing a game against the Cardinals, and somebody was pitching, and he said, I didn't feel good. And uh he took three fastballs right down the middle and came back to the dugout and said, I did not even participate in that at bat. And uh uh, you know, he had 500 more at bats uh to participate in. Uh and like there at the University of Texas, uh you got 10,000 people in the stadium, and those kids, they're just kids, and they don't have the as many at bats as other guys, but they're the you got the best of the best. You got Robbins, and you know, you got A-Rod, who I love, A-Rod. Uh he's almost like works too much. Uh, but you got the Pack kid who's a freshman who I think's gonna be special. Um But uh uh I just think uh uh I just think you know when I scout guys, uh sometimes I want to watch them a lot. And Casey Borba was the kid that would be one for four with two lineouts, uh strike out on a bad pitch, but they'd mess up when he had runners in scoring position, and there'd be a runner on second, and he'd get an inside fastball, and he'd put it down the line and drive that run in. And he was only one for four. I can remember a scout who was newer, and he was like, Yeah, he's only one for four. And I was like, one for four with the game-winning RBI three days in a row. You know, he's got three hits, he's three for twelve, but he has three game-winning RBIs. He hits when it matters, and you know, that's the middle side of it. He's a coach's kid. Uh, he's probably been in the cage more than anybody. Uh, you got guys sitting down there and they're working with Tulo, uh, and they're getting, you know, they're not in baseball 101, they're in baseball 400, they're in upper level graduate hitting classes. And you're you're sitting down there at Texas with Jim Sloshnagel, who, you know, Jim Sloshnagel's probably one of the best coaches in the history of college baseball. And that's saying something because, you know, you had Gus down there, and Coach Guson was he was a peach, he was a peach now.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

We both played for Gus. Yeah. He was wonderful. Well, Butch, I'm I'm I'm gonna go be a pitching coach this summer. There's a new wooden bat league here in Texas in uh Galveston Sandcrabs is where I'm gonna be pitching coach. And I I need I played the game a long time. I've kind of instructed the game a little bit, but how do how do I go about? I mean, getting a lot of people said you gotta get to know the kids. Get to know the kids, and then they'll just and they'll just take it in like a sponge. Give me some advice for a first-time pitching coach.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

I I I I think you're gonna do amazing. I think you were cut out for this because I think the role of a coach, now you'll work with them on off days, that's when you'll develop them and you'll see their routines and uh you'll make suggestions and adjustments. But I think you'll do an amazing job because we as coaches, I think we forget our job is uh, yeah, there's strategy, but our job is to put guys in the mood to play. And I think you'll do an amazing job of putting guys in the mood to play. And I always love being an assistant coach because uh I could do a better job of making them feel good as an assistant coach because they knew I wasn't making the big decisions, uh, but I could put them in the mood to play. And uh, like I said, you know, this summer I was with the college team and I'd sit down there in a bullpen and we'd talk about grips and pitching and uh stuff like that. But uh I can remember telling them, you know, that that guy's holding the club, but you're holding the missile, and all you gotta do is locate that missile, and he can't do anything with that club. You know, you ever notice how pitchers they don't talk about uh oh, pitchers gotta be on time. Uh hitters are always worried about being on time. And pitchers, man, you just throw it where you're told to throw it, and it's baseball. Sometimes they'll hit it and a lot of times they won't. So I think I think you're gonna be amazing. I said when I saw that, I was like, oh my gosh, he's perfect. Uh you're gonna be around those kids, and they're they're they're gonna listen to you, and you're gonna get you're gonna you're about to have the best summer you've had in a long, long time, I guarantee you.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

And that's not including the beach and the sand and the sun. Well, I got I want I want to talk to you just about um US of A. I know, I know your father was um, what, a couple, a couple stints over and was uh was a great uh patriot for for the for America back in the day. Just give us a little story on the on his background and and then I want to go into your style of the national anthem because I can tell when we watch games and and you they show the the kids lined up, and it might be just one USA kid on that team, but you know who that USA kid is by the way he handles himself near the national anthem.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

That and it's funny you say that because last night they never showed the national anthem, and they showed, you know, it was a big Broadway production. They showed them walk-in, they played the anthem uh for Venezuela, and then they played the anthem for the United States, and they did the thing where they take the camera down the line, and you could tell the kids who had come up through USA they were doing it exactly how they had been taught, which was so cool. Uh, but yeah, my dad, my dad was uh one of 13 kids. Um you know, there were 12 boys and one girl, and he grew up on a farm and he didn't want to be a farmer, and he was born in 1925, and he didn't want to be a farmer, and he wanted to see what was out there. He had like a sense of adventure, he's one of the younger ones. And uh when he was 16 years old, he ran away and he tried to join the army, and they told him you're only 16, you can't join the army. So he smudges his birth certificate and he joins the Navy. And because he grew up on a farm around rivers and ponds, uh he was an outstanding swimmer. So they do a swim test and he does like really well. Uh they put him in underwater demolition. So, you know, long story short, he ends up on the beach at Normandy for D-Day the night before. They put him out uh submarines and rubber rafts, and they gave him World War I pistols and knives, and they were going to set all the depth charges, or not depth charges, but the explosives on those uh giant metal things so the landing craft couldn't get up on the shore, uh, they were to blow all those things up. And uh there were 83 guys in his outfit, and 80 of them got killed. My dad and his two best friends made it out. And uh after they got done that night, you know, uh they they covered themselves up with sand at the bottom of these cliffs, and uh my dad had a scar under his eye where a Nazi flicked a cigarette off the cliff and it landed on my dad's face, and he was afraid to move, so he just kind of let it burn. And uh uh they start the invasion, and my dad's instructions, he was like, How do we get off the beach? And the commanding officer was like, just get off the best way you can. They weren't expecting any of them to live. And somehow he gets off the beach, he makes it back, um eventually gets out of the service, uh, becomes a petroleum engineer. He went to uh Angelo State in Texas, and uh we uh he moves to California, brings his brothers out, they start like a little petroleum company. I was born in California, my sisters were born in California, uh, and he does that the rest of his life. Uh, you know, he's a petroleum engineer, uh, he has expertise.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

I I was a 55-year-old man, and I still stand like that after I I learned it from you those those couple of summers in Kerry. But um Butch, we appreciate you. We appreciate what you do, what you've done, and and just keep on keeping on. I know you're a patriot and you love America, and I've I've just I miss seeing you, miss being around you. And um good luck with everything, and I'm sure we'll we'll cross paths again. I'll keep up with you on Twitter. I may I get a little crazy on there sometimes, but hey, it happens.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Thank you so much for hanging out with us.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Appreciate it, but we're gonna keep doing a little more segment here. You can go out, you can get off if you want. We got a little bit more to do. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

All right, Zeke, what's your get out of town moment?

SPEAKER_02 42:38

My get out of town moment. God, I guess I could just go to last night, the the world baseball classic. Nobody really, I think, gave too many people a chance for Venezuela to come out on top and and beat the all-American boys. But um, it was a great ball game and the first championship for Venezuela. So I'm I'm I'm I'm using that one. I'm I'm getting out of town with Venezuela winning and beating beating the U.S. of A.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Well, you know, I it it that is a good one. And but my get out of town moment it has to do with it. What I mentioned a little bit in the show is I I just think that this is a great idea. It's uh it's it's something that is expanding the game, but it's just I think a lousy time to do it. I just I can't I can't believe that Major League Baseball, of course, we we know Major League Baseball is you know, we have a strike maybe looming here in the future and everything else. So uh but my get out of time moment is man, wouldn't would this be unbelievable to be happening in July when everybody could really be involved in it? Because a lot of things are not are going on right now that you know spring training yes, but you know, why don't we have some baseball before we get to this? And mine is just needs to change the. Time. The timing needs to change of when they play this.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

I totally agree. I totally agree. That way you you could have brought Miller in last night, or you could have brought someone else in. Scuba might have been pitching the start that game, but yeah, teams have have their roles in um most of the teams, all the countries. So uh I agree 100%. I'd like to see both both squads, all countries at full steam when this tournament goes on.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Oh yeah, no question. And then that way you, you know, you you're gonna run, you can't tell me that there's not five starters in the United States that could go out and and give you some length, and then then you allow to set up your bullpins, and it just becomes real realistic to me, then of what baseball's about.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

That's it. All right, brother. Um y'all be careful. I'm gonna stop it real quick.