Everything Changes After High School… Here’s How to Prepare | Make Heaven Crowded Ep. 33

In this episode of Make Heaven Crowded, we sit down with our Student Coordinator to talk about one of the biggest transitions in life: what happens after high school.

Graduation is exciting—but it can also feel overwhelming. New freedoms, new responsibilities, big decisions, and a lot of uncertainty. So how do you prepare for the next season of life without losing your identity, purpose, or faith?

We dive into questions like:

• How should graduates approach this next season of life?
• What habits and mindsets matter most after high school?
• How do you keep your faith strong when everything changes?
• What mistakes should young adults avoid early on?
• How do you find purpose and direction in the middle of uncertainty?

Whether you’re graduating, parenting a graduate, or just navigating a new season yourself, this conversation is full of practical wisdom, encouragement, and honest insight.

Because after high school, everything changes—but with the right foundation, you don’t have to walk into the future unprepared.

🎙️ Make Heaven Crowded – Episode 33
📖 Topics: Graduation, Young Adulthood, Purpose, Faith & Life Transitions
🌐 Learn more at teamfbc.info

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Well, hey, thanks for joining us for another episode of Make Heaven Crowded. I'm Pastor Jordan, Pastor Roger, uh, Pastor Roger, Pastor Jordan. Pastor Luke is not here. That's the only thing I do know. We are joined by Gabe. I should know this as uh one of the senior pastors, but I actually don't know it off the top of my head. What is your title? Uh Student Youth Coordinator, youth coordinator. Student youth coordinator. I would have gotten that if you would have given me 10 guesses. I knew you were, I just call you one of the. I don't know. I think you're the youth gal. Yeah, and Tori's the youth gal. Yeah. But uh, you know, my title was student director, but I would always just go by student pastor. So really you're what you should just just start calling yourself student pastor, and then eventually. That's what everybody calls me with. Then they make up. Yeah. So uh Luke is is out this week, so we're bringing Gabe in. We we had Tori on the show a couple months ago, had a great episode with her, and so um we want to talk with Gabe a little bit. Just uh kind of about the next phase of life. We got a lot of graduates that graduated uh this past week, and so maybe you're listening and you're a high schooler, this is definitely for you, but maybe you're not a high schooler. Um we're all moving towards a new phase of life, no matter where we're at. Even if you're middle-age, you're you have a new phase of life, right? There's always the next phase, and so what does that look like and how can we prepare for that? We'll talk about that here.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

You raised kind of a good question. Are there very many students that actually listen to our podcast? Do you know? Do they ever say anything?

SPEAKER_02 1:17

No, I don't know, actually. They do listen to God. They do listen to godly girls. I know that. What I've learned from people recently is people are coming up late to the podcast. So a lot of people who didn't know about it maybe the first couple months, well, now they finally tuned in. And so what I'm hearing a lot are people that like have binge watched everyone in a short period of time.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

And then they still come back. I'm shocked.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Which is crazy because the episodes are progressively getting longer and they're still listening. And so hopefully better, not worse. Yeah, exactly. Hopefully it's good content. Um, but before we get to um kind of that topic, uh yesterday preached on Galatians chapter 5, Fruits of the Spirit. Um, and this is the lesson in our uh fresh start curriculum that uh lesson number eight. Lesson number eight. And I did I, you know, because with these, Luke and I have been reading the fresh start material, and some of them have been pretty verbatim to that, and then some of them have been we're gonna take a few points and then completely go our direction. And I think this one is probably the one where I most drifted away from the fresh start curriculum of kind of going my own way. So as someone who has read the fresh start curriculum, you wrote it even better. Um what where what what are some points that you think that the curriculum would cover that I didn't cover, or vice versa, cover ones that I did cover?

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Um, I think one of small just little details is that they come across as like standalones. We're not preaching them as a progressional buildup of where we started uh with some of the foundational things of assurance of salvation, uh identity in Christ, exchange life, that kind of stuff, that then shifted gears into the Christ-like life. How to what is this? I'm I've I've just recently accepted Christ, or even as a longtime convert, a lot of people just we've had a lot of people in the classroom that have uh been to church most of their life, and as we go through the content, you can see the the light bulbs going off in their brain, like that makes perfect perfect sense. I've been wondering that my whole life, you know, and that I get it now. And those are my favorite parts when those when that happens. So the idea is what am I supposed to do now that I'm a believer? What I mean, the Bible, if you're a new believer and you have to go read that entire Bible all on your own to try and figure it out, it's that's gonna take a while and it's a lot of content, and it's kind of jumbled up and it's kind of a puzzle piece that you got to connect together. Uh and so then we shift gears into that Christ-like life that then is a progression of the change from the inside out. So we start with what was the old self that Paul talks about taking off and then putting on the new. Um, so he goes through all those things, and you even listed some of those in your the opposites of the fruit of the spirit, basically. Yeah, that's a lot of the old self stuff the debauchery, the uh sexual immorality, all those types of things. Yeah, all those things. Those are the old self. Then we go into the new, which where Luke kicked that off with the Beatitudes, so it's a change from the inside, and then the out, and then you started to speak about the outward change. Yeah, so there's a progression. And so uh, I think you only have you have one more sermon than that's Luke on Sunday. I'm not sure which because there's two more lessons.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

He's doing the it's like your best self, it's something along the like the wording of it. I can't think of of course I haven't been through Fresh Start and I don't know, like from lesson to lesson, it's been over a decade, so I don't know. Um and even then, I don't even think it was called Fresh Start. I think it was something else.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

Uh it was called Starting Point at one time, I think, and then it moved to Fresh Start. And even, I mean, uh Gene Collins led it for years.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Well, see, I think that was so that's the one that I what Gene was the one that I went through. So all that being said, um, you're absolutely right. And even we had that conversation of like, well, man, exchange life. I'm preaching on this, and I feel like it's the same as identity. And you're like, well, subtly it it kind of is, in that you are the idea is the person that was in the lesson the week before is gonna understand the lesson from this week.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

So, like I said, it's a progression. Yeah. So then the next would be uh the only thing that counts, and then that's lesson nine. Okay, and the only thing that counts that comes from Galatians chapter five, verse six, part B. The second half of that is uh the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. So it all comes down to loving others. Uh your fruit of the spirit, those are also those are all actions of being loving. Yeah, because I think Paul even says the the greatest of these is love. Yeah. Um and then the next one then goes into faith and action. So that's the James chapter three, um, faith without works is dead. Yeah. So you can connect those two together if you want, but it's that's that steady progression of you gotta get rid of the old self because you're a new creation in Christ. What does that look like? That's where we talked about the caterpillar going into the changing into a butterfly. There's a metamorphosis that happens, and what's that supposed to do?

SPEAKER_02 5:54

So well, this is this is where gay, because it we always ask in the sermon what is something we didn't get to talk about. So this week for me, and this is where I'm gonna come you in because you you are not a dyed-in-the-wolf Southern Baptist. You you were not born in a crate that was donated by the Southern Baptist Convention, like you. Neither was I. And guess what? Neither was I either, right? I mean, so um, but I think this is interesting, and I said this first service, I didn't say it second service, I wish I would have. But I said that there's a lot of Southern Baptist churches that I think that when I I I you know I know their history, I listen to their messages, and I think sometimes they have this fear of talking about the Holy Spirit because they're afraid, like, oh, as Southern Baptists, we don't want to be charismatic, we don't want to be continuationist, we don't want to, you know, become faith healers, and there's this tie-in of, oh, when you talk about the Holy Spirit, you're being charismatic. And I think for me, I am very uncharismatic. I mean, Luke and I here hopefully soon are going to talk about um the apostolic gifts. I believe the apostolic gifts ceased with the apostles. I believe speaking in tongues um is not for today. That was for uh the first century. Same thing with things such as supernatural healing. I don't believe that apostolic gift is alive today because the apostles are not alive today. We no longer have any apostles. So Luke disagrees with me on some of those points. But the point being is that oftentimes we tie in, okay, you're talking about the Holy Spirit, to all of a sudden, oh, well, now you're talking about snake handling and speaking in tongues and all this stuff.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

Doing supernatural things. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Because churches that what I would say hyper-emphasize the Holy Spirit, and there are churches that talk about the Holy Spirit more than they talk about anything, right? That the fear is uh, well, if we talk about the Holy Spirit, we all of a sudden become these churches that are focused more on the gifts of the Spirit more than I would say the giver, which is the Holy Spirit itself. So, either of you, what what are your thoughts on that? What do you think, Gabe?

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah, I actually so uh one thing that I love that you said in your message yesterday is that um fruit is led by the spirit and works is led by us. So one thing that I I don't remember if you um did maybe I missed it when I was writing notes, but one thing that I had a question on is can you elaborate the difference between the two? So, what is fruit by the spirit in somebody's life look like being produced compared to what is work in somebody's life look like? So that's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

And that's a great question, and that's why I say um faith without works is dead, and we focus on that, but I think it's very possible, and we see this all the time, somebody has a false conversion, right? They they raise their hand, they in the moment maybe think they're saved, but they they actually haven't truly invited Jesus. And immediately after they start forcing good works in their life because they think that that's what they're supposed to do. And us on the outside looking in, we see that and we think, oh, how great, you know, now that they've been baptized, they're doing all of these things. Well, eventually what happens? They crash and burn. Eventually, their forcing of good works ceases because you can only go so far before before you realize I can only do so much. And so when I see a believer that has fruit, I know that they are not forcing that fruit. And that's what I explained. The tree you water a tree, you s the tree is soiled, um, and the tree has sunshine. It's not going to force an apple, it is going to naturally bear an apple. And so I think that that is how we as believers have to try and distinguish, which can be very difficult, what is the works of man, which is human, human effort, right? Um, versus what is naturally being born in a believer. The same I mean, the the example I would give is when it comes to giving money. Um someone who is giving and they um are doing it because they want to be seen, they're doing it because they want people to know, or they're doing it because they think it's what they have to do. That is a human effort thing. Right. But to be able to see something and to say, okay, no, I I you know, generosity just comes naturally, right? To the point of saying, hey, I'm gonna give you a hundred dollars to go to that sick child, don't you dare tell anybody I'm giving you this, right? That to me is clear fruit because that is naturally born. And so then the question is, well, how can we tell a hundred percent? And the answer is we can't. And the answer is it's not our responsibility, right? You know, that is where ultimately when people ask, well, how do we know they're just not faking it? Well, hey, that's between them and the Holy Spirit, right? That's between them and God. And we do that a lot when people die and we talk about their salvation. Well, how do you know they weren't just a big fat phony? Because I'm not Jesus. I I don't have, you know, uh uh X vision in my in my eyes to be into the heart, right? To be able to stare into the soul. And so that's where I would say it is very difficult at times to distinguish human effort and fruit. And that's why I gave the example of Mahatma Gandhi. Yeah, Gandhi has built more homes, fed more single moms, and clothed more children than almost every human being that has ever existed on this earth. But Mahatma Gandhi, for all we know, bore no fruit because he did not have the Holy Spirit. We cannot bear fruit because we are fallen. The Holy Spirit is the one that bears fruit.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Yeah, yeah, you know, digging into that idea of is it genuine or not, um, based on Paul's gifts of the spirit and uh people he's saying, Hey, you need to do these things, start working on this, do these things, trying to figure out well people in life outside of Christ still want to do good things for people. Yeah, they want to go help uh organizations, they want to give money, they want to volunteer, they want to do these these things, and they may not even be a believer. And so I dug into uh just trying to understand well, what's the difference from a believer doing good things versus a non-believer doing good things? And most of what I was able to research and come up with is that when you are doing things a part of Christ, there is always going to be a selfish ambition at the root of it, even though you may not notice it at the at the surface, but down deep in the core, you're doing something for your satisfaction or for your end gain.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

We talked about uh not alchemy, uh, altruism, Ayn Rand. The idea that every selfless act has some selfishness to its core, to core, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

But when it's rooted in Christ, as a believer, your ambition is to please the Lord. Because you want to do this because of what Christ has done for you. There's a difference there. It's now not you first, yeah. It's that, no, I I want to go do this, I want to get better at doing this because of what Christ has done for me. Yeah, and this is what I've been told I need to go do. And so I want to do these things. I want to do better, and I want to do these for Christ. So it shifts the the ambition, I guess, uh, and why behind it.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Well, the other the other thing I would say to that, it's either Romans 1 or 2, where Paul's speaking of the Gentiles that were once unsaved, and he says, Well, the law was written on your heart. And so he's saying, you know, I I think some Christians and even some non-believers, they they will do this kind of straw man of like, well, Christians believe you have to be saved to be a good person, or you have to be saved to do good works. And Paul says, They knew before Mount Sinai that thou shalt not murder. I mean, they knew that, right? It just confirmed. And so if you're a Christian, please don't think like, oh, I have uh someone who I know who's an unbeliever, I have to get them saved in order for them to do good works. I know many non-believers who who have no belief in Jesus Christ who do good things. And I know many Christians who do have a faith in Christ that I see do some very bad things. And so that's why when we look at human effort, bad people can do good things. Yeah, and good people can do bad things. And if we judge it based off of the action itself, we're not actually getting to the core of what actually matters.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

Yeah, so what did Abraham know? What did Noah know? There was no law before Moses. Yeah. So there's a whole lot of people that lived on the earth before Moses that knew something about right and wrong before there was everything, anything ever written on a yeah, there was they had an understanding of what they should and shouldn't do, should and shouldn't do.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

So yeah, I love what it says in Romans 2, kind of going back to that too, that all these people, you know, can do good things, but you know, they struggle with things in secret, or they're not living that life outside of Sunday or Wednesday, and that's what they're gonna be judged on in secret. Um, it's towards the end of chapter two that it talks about, you know, for the judges coming where they'll be judged where they were uh what they were doing in secret. And it's just like a good reminder like, are we living as Christians what we the way that we live Sunday and Wednesday, or are we just putting up this front that we you know we live this good Christian life and then throughout the rest of the week we're just doing whatever the heck we want?

SPEAKER_02 14:11

That's why I love, and you could speak on this as a youth pastor, how I did the sin cycle. Um, and that was just something I came up with of like, because that was my life for so long. Yeah, and specifically, ooh, the thunderstorms are happening. God's bowling, there you go. Um But the the idea is okay, as a Christian we sin. Well, then what happens? Then we have guilt. Okay, well, then we try to repent, so then we're determined. I'm never gonna do this again. But unfortunately, for so many, even though we're so determined, yeah, we get right back and then we just live in that cycle. And and that really became a reality to me when I was a youth pastor to see how many of these students live in that, especially our boys, when it comes to like pornography, of yeah, you know, when they would come to me almost in tears of like, I just tried so hard and I and I went back. And it's kind of like what Paul says in Romans 7, 1, 5, I hate what I do, I do what I do and I hate what I do. And so, what would I mean in terms of Christians that find themselves in that cycle, how do we get out of this cycle of just guilt-ridden determination only to get right back to where we were in that sin?

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Yeah. Well, James says in chapter one that temptation is brought to our on our own selfish desires and that we can't blame the Lord and say, Oh, Jesus is tempting me. And one thing that I've learned over the years is, especially as I had my own struggles, is uh I try to get out of them myself. And I think with this generation, yeah, there's a lot of kids that are like, hey, I'm struggling with this, I need help. But there's also those those same ones that are a lot like me, like your your male athletes or your strong guys that don't want to be vulnerable that are like, oh, I'll get over it on my own. And so they go through that cycle that you talked about, or they have this spiritual high encounter and they're like, Okay, I'm gonna be real, I'm gonna be vulnerable, but I don't want this for my life anymore. And so they they open up for a moment, but then they disclose and there's no follow-up. And so they keep falling back into that cycle of temptation, sin, struggle, you know, guilt, all these different things, and then say, Oh, I don't want this life anymore, but there's no follow-up. And so I think to get out of that cycle, you not only have to be willing to be vulnerable, but you also have to be willing to take those next steps of like, I'm gonna be vulnerable, but I also need guidance of how to get out of this. I can't do it. Yes, absolutely. And that is one thing that I I harp on a lot, especially with youth, is you cannot do this life alone. You cannot seek a godly life by yourself because there are so many elements in school, outside of school, outside of the church that will throw them themselves at you and you're gonna get caught right back in the trap. So you have to have somebody who's stronger than you, somebody that's dependent and reliable, that can hold you higher to rely on to get you through these things that you're struggling with, because on your own, you cannot do it. Yeah, and that's my biggest thing that I preach on is like you have to have accountability, you have to have a mentor. Because when I started having those people in my life, is when I started getting rid of that cycle, getting out of that cycle and started bettering my life. And you just feel so much freedom in that too. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

But I'll also add that it that's why we include the beatitudes. Yeah, because the very first beatitude is admitting you are poor in spirit, that you cannot do this on your own, and you need a higher power, like you had mentioned, but it's the Holy Spirit that you have to admit to and say, I can't get over this myself, I need your help. And I wonder how many people understand that instead of constantly relying on themselves, they need to take it to God and not in fear because God wants to help. I think people are afraid to admit their sins to God because they're ashamed. Yeah, but that's what God wants you to do. He wants you to bring them back to Him and say, I can't get this on my own. I need your help. Well, great, that's exactly what I wanted you to do, and that's what very first beatitude is about.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Yeah, and I think personal accountability is great. We talk about pornography. Hey man, you're a mentor in my life. Can you keep me accountable? Can I share my, you know, my phone stuff with you and you can keep that accountable? But I've also uh counseled alcoholics that will say, Yeah, there's a bar on the way home, and I take a 15-minute detour to get home in order to avoid even looking at it. And you know what? I know Applebee's, I know that could be a family establishment, but I know that they serve my favorite alcohol. My family doesn't need it at Applebee's anymore. There's a million restaurants that don't serve alcohol, and nothing against the restaurants that do serve alcohol. But for an alcoholic, that may not be the correct answer. Um if you struggle with lust, maybe don't hang outside the strip club. Maybe don't, you know, and you laugh and you think, well, yeah, duh, but you know what?

SPEAKER_03 18:35

Start with the simple removing the temptation to the street.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

But I think for so many people of like, you know what, I'm uh I'm addicted to TikTok. I'm just gonna get off of TikTok. And then we we keep it, it it's it's the equivalent of hanging outside the strip club. It's the same thing. And it's like, okay, well, no wonder you're going to fall back into that. No wonder, you know what? I am I God, I am done gossiping. I am I am determined. I'm never gonna gossip again, but I'm not gonna change any of my friends, I'm not gonna change any of my environments, and then I'm gonna get mad at myself when I fall back into the same thing that I've been doing and doing. What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and doing different results and expecting different results. And I think that sometimes when we look at that sin cycle, sometimes we fall into that definition of insanity of, well, God, I just can't do it. And God's looking at us and saying, Well, you're not changing anything to actually change the behavior that's happening.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

This kind of goes back to what we talked on on Wednesday night about changing the source. Uh, we were talking about James III and how uh he talks a lot about controlling and taming the tongue and how everything is tameable except the tongue because it's yeah, because it's so strong, it's so powerful, it has all these capabilities. And we were talking about how the source isn't your speech, your source isn't your tongue, it's your heart. And and your mouth is the overflow of those things. And so for these people that are struggling with these things and are are wanting to get out of that, what are they changing the source? Are they changing part of the source? Are they changing the overflow of the source? And that's what we hit on Wednesday is like nothing will change. Yeah, you may be able to change your speech for a certain amount of time. You may be able to change certain elements in your life, but until you get control of the source, until you change the source, nothing else will change. Your overflow won't change, nothing else will change until the source changes. So that just kind of reminded me of you have to change your source in order to change everything else in your life.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Yeah, absolutely. And I and I think it's it's so staking difficult. It is so incredibly difficult. Yeah. Um, as someone who has tried every diet in the world, I know how easy it is to tell myself tomorrow I'm gonna do better and then wake up and not. And I'm gonna drop a name that you definitely will not know. Jordan, you may know because your your old sports history is pretty impressive. Do you know AC Green?

SPEAKER_03 20:44

Uh I think I may confuse him with the AC Greenwood. I don't know who that is. And I may be getting oh, maybe that's where I'm confusing. AC Green?

SPEAKER_02 20:54

AC Green was the he played with Magic Johnson. He was on the Lakers teams, he was one of the best defending forwards of all time. I think he's a minister now. Um, he was a devout Christian, saved himself until marriage, and he got married when he was like 42. So he played his entire NBA career as a virgin, as a devout Christian, and all of his teammates he kind of went the opposite route of Wilt Chamberlain. Well, so it's funny you say that because his point guard, Magic Johnson, got a diagnosis for something similar. But AC Green, I I was listening to something he shared, and man, it just hit me. So all of his teammates, many of them were not Christian, many of them were sleeping around. They knew AC Green was a Christian, they knew he was a virgin. So they all, in their own dark hearts, thought, you know what, we're we're we're gonna make sure that we get him unvirginized. We're gonna get him, we're gonna get him a woman. And so literally, teammates would get women and say, Hey, AC's gonna be in the locker room after the game, go in there. And he AC talks about he was propositioned many times by beautiful, beautiful women. You gotta think downtown Los Angeles, you're on yeah, you're on the Lakers. And he said every time a woman would come up to him and proposition. Him. He said he would just start quoting scripture. And that's all he would do. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

LC Greenwood played for the Steelers. LC, okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Gotcha. Hey, that's pretty close. Research AC Green because he's an incredible guy. But literally, you've got to think this guy's in his 20s and 30s. Yeah. And a woman goes up and says, Hey boy, we heard you were blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he just starts saying, you know, he just starts quoting scripture. And imagine like the testimony. And I just think, you know what?

SPEAKER_03 22:23

AC Green Jr., American former professional basketball player.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

And when did he play from?

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Iron Man. I don't know. I'll have to look. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

It's your era, I think.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

But he played. I don't know. I'm just, I was just going to be like, what era? Yeah, but after World War III.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

No, but it when I read that and I'm like, you know what? As a pastor, as an ordained minister, whatever that means, like, I wish I had that faith. Like I wish I had the ability. When I drive by, I know I keep bringing back to food, but like when I drive by a sonic and I'm just like, you know what, 1 Peter 3:15, and I just start quoting scripture. And but what does Jesus do when the devil tempts him? What does he do? He spits scripture. That's what he does. And so I just when I think of that, I'm like, you know what? That that is the type of believer that I want to be that when I am tempted, because A.C. Green was tempted. Like he had that temptation, but what did he do? He did exactly what Jesus did in the uh in the wilderness.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

What's the very last uh fruit? Self-control. That's right. That's the hardest of them all. The most difficult. Yeah. And that's what a lot of it boils down to is just self-control. Yeah. But man, it's tough.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

And that's where I thought it was really I'm glad that I got to share of like, because we hear all the time, well, Roger, the Holy Spirit's telling me to do this. And if it goes against one of his fruits, it cannot be of the Spirit because the Spirit does not contradict himself. And so I have heard, especially in counseling, some downright absurd the spirit told me, dot dot dot. And I every time, anytime someone says that to me in a counseling session or on the side of the road, I will open up Galatians 5 and I say, okay, we need to go through every single fruit. And if it validates each fruit, that doesn't mean it's 100% of the spirit, but at least it gives us an opportunity to see if it is. But if it if it violates any of the spirit's fruit, it's not of the spirit.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

So here's a question for you. Do you think in the modern day church the the Holy Spirit gets abused in a way? Do I think the Holy Spirit gets abused?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

I think the spirit He's like confusing. Have you ever seen that sign that says uh Confucius? I never said half the things I said. Listen, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

The Spirit gets abused in certain churches more than in than almost any abuse I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Well, and a lot of times when you hear a pastor in the middle of a sermon, I feel that the Holy Spirit is speaking to me. You're like, yeah, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 24:32

I mean, we we talked about this before. I watched it in sociology. Um, but the Steve Martin movie of, you know, where he's the traveling evangelist, and it's it's a it's a it's a secular movie, clearly, but like he's going around, he's doing all of these events, and the whole time he's got like an earpiece traveling evangelist. But he's a but he's a he's a shyster. And the whole basis of he's abusing the Holy Spirit. Right. Um and I mean there's a there's example after example after example of I think that came off of the swagger and all those kind of things.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean kind of playing off of those guys.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Um and and there and here's the thing the their televangelism is is just as alive today as it was, you know. I mean, there's still I mean when I was a deputy, I can't tell you how many calls I I got from elderly women that would just send their social security to this ch to this shyster, this rod, this this con man. And I think uh, you know, a nine-year-old that loves his dad on December 24th um and then refuses to love him any other day, clearly you love your father because you want his gifts. And I think sometimes if we're not careful, that's why I said there it there can be a hyperemphasis of the Holy Spirit where I need the Spirit to do this for me when we talk about healing, when we talk about prophecy, and I think that once you do that, you fall into the same trap that the nine-year-old does on Christmas Eve of, okay, daddy, you're the best dad ever. Can I get my gift now? Yeah. And so that I think is absolutely an issue.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

But I mean, you yeah, so let me But that's not to say you can't call on the Holy Spirit for help in regards to, hey, I really need like I do that all the time with my Wednesday night lessons. I'm I always pray, hey, Holy Spirit, I need your help writing this lesson. I want it to be pleasing to the Lord, and I want you to help me write it. Yes. And I a lot of times I've noticed when I forget to pray, and I'm kind of like, hmm, I can't really get started here. I don't know really what to how to say this, or um, and then I'll pray. I'll be like, oh, I didn't pray, and I'll pray asking the Holy Spirit for help. And literally within seconds, I'm like, and it just starts going.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

You know, so I do believe you can call the Holy Spirit. Just as a nine-year-old can, it's not sinful to want a gift from his father. There's nothing wrong with that. The nine-year-old is absolutely in bounds for doing that. You have to distinguish, okay, I love my father, and because I love him, and because he loves me, I will receive a gift versus conditionally, I will love him so I can receive that gift.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah, I'll also say, and tell me if you guys, if I'm crazy, do you all have an inner voice? That kind of tells you. Like an inner monologue? Yeah, or just a voice that you that you can kind of communicate, like you ask yourself questions and then it talks to you. Yeah, and you're and what you mean. Yeah. Is yours, and so I would say 100% of the time, it it's it's I guess it's kind of like your conscience, you know, speaking to you. My conscience tells me, yeah, you shouldn't do that. And you're like, no, come on, why not? Yeah, and there's so many times I've I've asked myself, am I just is that just me speaking to myself, or is that truly the Holy Spirit that I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_02 27:21

I the only person I've ever met, I want to say it's Hannah Lehman, and she can correct me here in a minute, but I I think she I don't think she has an inner monologue.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

It's either now because Tor, I think. Is it because she just says everything out loud? No, I think it's just like and I'm just thinking like speaks her mind. If I didn't have an inner monologue, I would if I didn't have an inner monologue, I would get nine hours of sleep. My inner monologue wakes me up at three in the morning every night. Yeah. Oh no, I forgot to take out the trash, or yeah, oh no, when I turned 50, what about this? And I'm 33. Like, I mean, my inner monologue doesn't shut up. It's kind of like me. Um, and so no, I think we all have that inner monologue, but I think the Holy Spirit utilizes that inner monologue. I think it kind of says, okay, now I'm gonna reposition what that inner monologue looks like.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

That's what's hard for me, though, is distinguishing the two. Very different. So, like, you know, you hear people say all the time, like, oh, you hear that little voice inside your head, that's the Holy Spirit. And it's like, but when do you know that it's the Holy Spirit? Well, it's not always, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Yeah, but that's when you that's where prayer kicks in. Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Because sometimes that inner voice tells me to go to that website. Isn't that the Holy Spirit tell me to go to that website? I've never had that. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's okay to go look at that. Yeah, another dream. But when you're saying your voice, I'm saying that I've done stupid stuff that my inner monologue said, no, um, yeah, you know, oh, if I eat it, okay. Well, no, you'll be okay, yeah, I can do that. Like, yeah, it's not your inner monologue can be a should be a representation of you because it is you. Yeah. The question is, is, and that's why I use the devil and the angel. Like, there is a fight that is going on. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

But I but even then, even when I'm trying to convince myself possibly of I can go ahead and have another piece of pizza, even though I'm like miserable because it tastes so good. I still want the inside's going, no, you know better. I do not need to have that other piece of pizza. But that's where but I'm serious, that's where prayer needs to kick in. Yeah, and that's I think that's where Paul talks about you need to test spirits. Yeah. Um and you need to kind of say, Lord, you need to, I need your help. You need to search me. Make sure there is nothing of you, other than anything other than you that is in me. I if there's any other kind of spirit in me or something else is speaking to me, anything in my ear influence me, I need you to get rid of that. Um, I it needs to go away and be as far away as possible, throw on the hedge of protection kind of stuff. Yeah, uh, and then I think that's where you can get shielded so that then you can just hear that one true voice of the spirit.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

So now where I will say that in her, and I gave the example of the the kid I hadn't talked to in 16 years, and I messaged him on Facebook. And then he blocked you. Yeah, that was a good punchline. No, but what was cool about that is you know, he said, Hey man, no harm, no foul. I don't even remember it. We're good, brother. Hope you're doing well. Like we had a good conversation, but like that was something that had eaten me alive for 16 years. And the Holy Spirit, not me. I mean, I I I didn't think of it because there's no way that anything would have brought that up. But in that moment, it just hits me like a ton of bricks. You need to reach out to him. You need to reach out. Well, why? What what do you what do you mean? I'm watching Frasier. Like, why do I need to reach out to him? Okay, fine, I'll message him, right? Yeah, that is where you see, okay, that is the whole that that's not just my inner monologue, just uh waking up and saying, hey, remember that kid from eighth grade? Not at all.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

I typically ignore that voice.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Yeah, you need to reach out to them. No, I don't.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

I don't let's just let that dog laugh.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

But that's the one for so many people, that's the one step. Who who do you need to apologize to that you haven't apologized that you haven't talked to? What's the relationship that was severed 20 years ago that you said, Oh, I'm gonna take that to my grave, I'll never talk to them again. How can you reconcile that? Right, like that's that's that's where the Holy Spirit can really show his presence.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

So yeah. Well, there's others in the lesson we highlight the other things the Holy Spirit helps us with. We talked about a few of them here, but just in intercessory prayer, he intercedes on our behalf of prayer. Uh, but he even guides us into prayer. So there's a lot of things, not just that there's these this the Holy Spirit leads us into you know, love, joy, peace, yeah, you know, all those things, self-control. Um there it he's pretty broad.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

And one of the things I I didn't mention at all is when people say, Well, I'm a new believer, how am I going to understand the Bible? The only way I understood the Bible as a new believer truly was through the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, there's things I that I would have not understood. So the Holy Spirit allows us to interpret the Bible to understand what God is trying to tell us.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

Yeah, and if I always tell people, if you have a Bible that is not a study Bible and it is also King James, you need to get rid of it. You need to start over, don't get enough crash it. Yeah, put it in the corner on the shelf somewhere is just, hey, that was my first Bible. Yeah, and you can just let it sit over there. Yeah. Get a Bible that's an excellent study Bible that will explain the scripture. Oh my goodness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

To think that we can figure it out on our own is you're crazy to think you can figure it out on your own. Yeah. So getting a study Bible literally changed the entire way that I look at it.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Yeah, which is why we have people here that get baptized. We we pay the extra money. And our Bible, I mean, we we don't we don't buy cheap Bibles. Like we want to make sure if I'm gonna give this to a new believer, it is gonna be the same Bible that I would buy for my child, you would buy for your child. I mean, we want to make sure that they have that.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Well, and then after people complete the fresh start 10-week course, they get a certificate of completion and a chronological study Bible. Which is not cheap, not cheap at all. It is a really nice gift, but it's really cool because it's now another level of hey, I'm gonna read my Bible chronologically now.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

Uh which I've never done. I've read the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

I've read the Bible many times cover to cover. I've never read it chronologically. So it starts with Job.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

Uh no, Job kicks in around Genesis 9.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Oh, so it literally, okay. So I thought it was book by book. It's actually like section by the way. It'll cut into a book.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Yeah, I started to read it and it goes from like Genesis to I think what you're talking about, and it's like, whoa, it just cut half of Genesis off. Like, what's up with that?

SPEAKER_03 32:56

You go to 30, 40 chapters of Job. And you're like, all right, that's awesome. But what's kind of cool though is at the end of Job, God talks about creation. Yeah. And who was there? And he's challenging Job. Hey, were you there when I did this? When the and he talks about the sons of God and the morning stars were present cheering while he created the world. Yeah. And you're like, so God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit weren't the only ones present during creation. There were other spiritual beings there, according to Job 38. Yeah. So it's kind of cool how it does kind of end and brings you back into the creation scene. And then that's past the huh?

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Does Michael Heiser write about that?

SPEAKER_03 33:35

Uh yeah, he does.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

That's the uh Unseen Realm.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Yeah, the Unseen Realm. Yeah. He he'll tie it into the Council, the Divine Council. Which is biblical. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

We have no clue what it is.

SPEAKER_03 33:47

Psalm 82 and Psalm 89, and then it pops up all once you see it, it's hard to unsee it. It is really cool.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

I had to write a paper for my masters on the on the divine council. And basically, my conclusion was I still know nothing. Like, I mean, there's different interpretations. We should do an episode on that, because that would be a good episode. I don't know how much you would have to. You've probably done some study on that.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

I've only read his book three times now. Yeah. And I'm still learning the book. So I wrote a seven-page paper. No, his book literally, we did the book as a book study over the summer, a couple summers ago in my class, Wednesday night class. And the the class's consensus was every chapter of that book, and there were, I mean, I think it goes into the 40 chapters, they're like every chapter could be an expanded into its own book. Yeah. That's how just thick, heavy, scary smart. Oh man. Incredibly good. Yeah. But yeah, his biggest thing was he Psalm 82, he speaks about the psalmist writes about this council that God most high presides over. And you're like, well, who is that? And it talks about these Elohim, which are gods, but they're lowercase G gods. Yeah. And so if you want to go down a rabbit hole, oh howdy, can you go down this rabbit hole? But it's all. You should do an episode on that stuff. But, anyways, he talks about that in the he he just talks about a little bit of blurb of the creation story in a sense that he kind of reframes it. What's the perspective? Uh, because that wasn't written until the Israelites were wandering in the desert. So several hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years later that the Israelites learned about creation. And it wasn't so much to find out, was it seven literal days or was it over a period of time? No, it wasn't about that. He starts talking about it in relation to what other nations were were re how they thought of creation. And so it was a tell teaching the Israelites, no, this is how the God most high created uh our creation. And these other god, these other stories are inaccurate, but yet they would have a mirror kind of a similarity to the true creation story. So it's from a unique, you've got to, and this is one of the things I wanted to bring up, but I didn't think of it until after our debate. Uh, yours and Luke's, and I just had questions of clarification, really. I wasn't really debating, I was just asking for you know a lot of the answers. I was just curious if you knew the answers.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

And listen, I've read Daniel A cover to cover since our conversation.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Uh but, anyways, uh, it's the what I wanted to say is that we need to again hermeneutics, good hermeneutics is read understanding from the perspective of who it was written for. So these early Israelites, yeah, what how would they have understood it or what would have how would it have been presented to them? And we really don't know. Um, would they have even cared that it was a literal seven days? Now, we base our calendar on that. We have a weekly calendar based on seven literal days, but is that symbolic or whatever? Exactly. Yeah. But anyways, Hiser, he does talk about in the creation story when God says, Let us make man in our image, and and he says our and us. And so many times people think everybody usually thinks he's God is referring to Father, Son, Holy Spirit, right? Because there's I mean, there's a community there. And what Hyzer will argue is no, he is speaking to the Elohim, the lowercase G gods, the morning stars and the sons of God that pop up again in Genesis 6, and they pop up all throughout the Bible, and he is talking to them. So his point is that we are not only we are image bearers of God, but so are these Elohim that are talked about all throughout the Old Testament. So it is very fascinating to hear this. Whoa, I've never been taught that before in my entire life.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Circling all the way back to okay, how in the world can I read and even understand and apply yeah, some of it doesn't like we we do have a responsibility, right? I say all the time, like God has a role in change, but you have a role in change too. Like you have a role in, okay, I have to understand this, Holy Spirit, let me understand this and go. And then you start reading and you understand every concept. No, that's not how it happens. You have a responsibility as the believer to also study, and so in all of the things that the Holy Spirit does, and I even said it multiple times yesterday, I'm like, I wish I had an eight-week series on this, like even on Galatians 5, but also not getting to go into certain areas that I wanted to go in. That's why we have a podcast where we're able to un unravel some of those things. And so how did we get on that conversation of uh divine counsel and what the Holy Spirit does understanding God, understanding the Bible, unseen realm? Yeah, I see a clear path there. It's very simple. Come on, what are you doing? Yeah, um, so anyways, well we will that's that that's just a little bit um from yesterday. But Gabe, obviously, um We also had grad Sunday. We had grad Sunday as well, so it was it was a good Sunday, and um you have now been on our staff.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

So these these seniors that just graduated, um, they would have been juniors when you Yes, yeah, because I came in uh after D now, I think it was gosh like 24 yeah uh twenty-five. Twenty-five, okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

I feel like you've been here longer.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

No Jul July 1st, I will have been on staff for a full year. Full time. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

I it feels like you've been here way longer. Yeah, you've been around longer, you've been playing drums.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

But so you knew them as juniors, but you knew them, they were your first sixth graders, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:02

Yeah, this was well actually I I looked at it, they were my sixth and a half, like they were go about to go into seven. Seventh grade.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

And so they were my full class.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

My first full class of seventh graders, and I got them for a little bit of sixth grade.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

Okay, so this next year will be your full grade.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Will be my first full sixth grade, yeah. And that's the crazy but and I and I'm not to play favorites because I I don't play favorites, but I'm not a youth pastor anymore, so I can be more honest. Yeah, this class is the reason I did middle school for as long as I did. I don't think if I would have, if I wouldn't have had my Jalen's, my Grayson's, my I mean, I could just go down the list of of like they I remember my first Wednesday. I went to Jalen Keller and I said, Jalen, I don't know how to work a PowerPoint, I don't know how to get my computer onto that big screen. And Jalen Keller's a six going into seventh grader, and Jalen's like, hey, leave it to me. So my first- Well, she's inviting her entire volleyball team. Well, even before that, because our first Wednesday, I looked at a picture on my phone. There's 18 of them, and it's like rows of three. It looks like I'm doing a breakout session for like a small church. And I remember that first Wednesday night. I'm like, I don't think this is gonna last. Like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do this. And it was the Jalen's, Camilla was another one, and I'm like, guys, you are my leaders. I need you. And you know what they did? They went and they shared, and within, I think it was like a year and a half to two years, we had 120, 130 kids.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Packed up here in this third floor where the fire escape is the roof and they jump. And it's it's scary.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

And so it was it wasn't me. Like I had no stinking idea. Yeah, it was the Jalen's, it was the Graysons, it was the Emma Layman's, it was the you know, the Morgan Dur. I mean, all of those, like those were the ones. Um, and uh, I'm just to see them up there now and thinking like they're going off to college, it's just crazy, crazy, crazy. Yeah, and you'll experience that more. The longer you're in youth, you will experience that.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

And I think Tori mentioned on stage that this this was her first group, yeah, of six grades. As a small group leader, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It is kind of a it's a wild thing of you you almost feel like a parent and you're launching them off into the world, you know. It's scary, uh, because man, look out that the world is brutal. Uh but there's there's been several things that have these kids are doing things. I when I look at the kids that are from versus when I was in uh uh my youth group uh back in the day. Yeah, um I'm just proud of these kids because we're seeing groups of boys coming together creating Bible studies. Yeah, they're wanting to be missional, they're getting out there, they're reaching their friends. Um it's really and the girls are doing the same thing. Tell us about some of the things these kids are doing.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yes, well really they're now adults, I hate it. Really, I kind of got to go back to the beginning of the year because the boys who are leading these things, that was not even in the radar. Um just a few years ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:50

Or even months ago.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Yeah, months ago it was not even on the radar. And for some of them, probably, but for the other ones, like they were partying, they were sleeping with women, they were, you know, vaping and smoking weed and drinking and doing all the things. And you know, they'd come to church on Sunday and Wednesday, and then they were doing all those things through the week. And they were content because they're like, Man, life is good. Um and so how they kind of started that was I um at the beginning of the year was like, I want to pour into some of these guys that are you know that are seen as popular, as seen as um like leaders naturally and want to try to help um navigate their walk with Christ more seriously and to use their uh leadership for a more positive impact. For and I'm not gonna say it was all me because it was not all me, you know, through the Holy Spirit and through other people coming alongside and saying, you know, holding the holding them up, keeping them accountable, that sort of deal was it possible. But um throughout the year or throughout the year and through the months, they started to kind of shift and you could see the shift. They were curious, they started getting plugged in.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

They were things you were saying to them started to click. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

They were more passionate, they started um doing Bible studies on their own with small groups, and literally because uh I took a one senior boy who was like, Hey, I have a flex block in the morning. I was like, Great, let's get together and do a Bible study in the morning before school. Started showing up every single day, and he was um so moved by that or impacted, if you will, that he's like, I want to do this on my own time with my own friends. And so he started doing that, and these kids started showing up, and they were reading um some convicting passages, and they're like, Man, I literally have a vape in this hand and the Bible in this hand, and I can't have both, like I have to choose. And so as they go through that, as they're holding each other accountable, they started to kind of just jump on the Jesus train, and it wasn't just another phase for them or another high that wasn't the cool thing. Yeah, they're like, We know that this probably is is not the cool thing to live out, but we're gonna run with it and see what you know God will do through it. So, um, yes, as a lot of courage, as a go caps project, there was a couple of senior boys and a a junior that That was like, hey, here's our vision, here's our heart. What can we do to make this possible? Can we host it here? We all said absolutely. Um, and so they started the pro or uh Matthew 9 project and started doing Bible studies, had some great turnouts, and they're getting ready to do some like evangelizing trips. They're kind of still in the works on that. But um, yeah, so they just kind of ran with it and they're like, people think that it's a phase, people think that it's a high, people think that it's a gimmick, but it's not well.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

The fear is that a lot of them, and I've seen this, you know, as I was a youth pastor. You, you know, you're you have your your environment of Lebanon, yeah. You have your friends, and you know, these group of kids, they're they're gonna go to different colleges, and sometimes it's like, well, I'm gonna go to the to the Uber uh Christian college, and it's like, hey, guess what? They're drinking the same flavor of don't think that just better if it has Baptist or Methodist or Lutheran in the name, they there's still stuff like that. Yes, exactly. And so that is where um you know my my fear and concern as as students are like, well, you know what, I want to go off to college, I'm gonna do this. And that's why it's so important to say, okay, what is your first step? You have to get plugged into a church, right? You have to get plugged into a group of people, and so you haven't seen it yet with them, but of course you graduated high school. What what is your encouragement when okay, now I'm leaving my bubble, I'm going out into the world. How do I keep the hope?

SPEAKER_00 45:22

And Lebanon is a bubble, very much a bubble, yeah. Yeah, the biggest thing that I've told them is because they obviously want to carry out these projects, they obviously want the next generation to pick them up, which I think is great. But encouraging them as they're going off to school is like, hey, this is great. What you're doing is great. If you're deciding to come back home every weekend for church, great. But my biggest encouragement for you is to go and get plugged in to a church where you can find community, where you can surround yourself with like-minded believers, and where you can continue to build stronger and continue to find new believers that you can build stronger with too to impact where you're at as well. And so um Luke actually gave me this idea and he told me that he did this when he was a high school youth pastor, was that he would get where everybody's going to college at and find local uh like churches or ministries that are going on and say, Hey, here are some things that you can get plugged into and search for. Yeah, go try this out, let me know what you think about it, that sort of deal. So if you like it, we can continue to to lead students to go to these things.

SPEAKER_03 46:29

And of course, it'll never be the same, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:31

Right. It won't be the same as your home church, but at least it's something to keep you going and growing, you know, and that's the most important part, is because Yeah, you mentioned something important in that though, is there's been a foundation late though.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Right. And they're building on that. So even if let's say they veer a little bit, they'll come back to the foundation. Yeah. And you do have to let the little bird fly and go find out on their own what life is like as an adult. But um, I think that and I didn't, I'm sorry I interrupted you, but I think that's a pretty big thing to talk about because yeah, the foundation is the key. Yeah. Uh that you all have built such a solid foundation for these kids of understanding and who they are in Christ. Yeah. And hopefully, as if things do start to veer, as we talked about earlier, that conscience, that Holy Spirit is going to be like, hey, let's not do that.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

And I think, I mean, the most important part is you know, the biggest thing is when you're in middle school and high school, even a lot of these kids still live in their parents' faith. And so Tori and I were kind of like, okay, what can we do as youth leaders to try to persuade them to find their own path and in their faith and in their belief and make it their foundation. And you know, we may have not been able to do that with every senior, um, but I think that we did a pretty good job at uh getting a large sum. Not to say that we're great at what we do, but I think that we were able to target some in a way that they were able to go and be like, hey, come with us, you know, and let's help you establish your your foundation and your biblical principle. And so there's there's not really a a big part of me that worries as these kids go as this senior class goes off to college that they're gonna lose that foundation.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

The other good thing we have is you know, they they can come back and yeah, yeah. And we've got D now. Hey, you want to be uh you you went through D now for six years. You want to lead a group now? Yeah, it's a very different thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

Yeah, yeah, there's been a lot of senior boys specifically that have come up to me and be like, can we lead a group next year? I was like, absolutely. Yeah, like absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

Well, I think that's one of the amazing things of that has transpired with D now is how many come back to lead. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

That's a huge sign of how successful it is how much of an impact it makes. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Yeah, no, I think uh, you know, I anytime I see someone backslide, and and it doesn't just have to be a student, again, you we all have a new phase of life, and maybe you're 98 years old. Your next phase may be heaven. Like we all have a next phase, right? Everyone has a next phase of life. Even if you think, well, I'm in the same mundane job, I have the month the same mundane nine to five, eventually there's going to be a shift for everyone. Whether you're high school to college, it doesn't matter. And when I see someone start to quote unquote backslide, or they or they start to go back in their faith, there's always two questions I ask. Number one is are you plugged into a church? The answer I would say almost 100%, if not 100% of the time, is no, I haven't been going. Yeah. Question number two who are you who are you hanging out with? Who are you, who have you been in? 99% of the time it's not, oh, it's just my small group. Right. Oh, it's just it's the other guys from Wednesday night youth, or it's the guys from Sunday morning. No, it's always, well, you know, I joined this group, or I joined this. Or went to a frat party. Exactly, right? Or, you know, well, you know, I found these people. Yeah. So it's those things, right? And and it doesn't matter if you're 17 going on 20 or 55 going on 60. Those are two, I think, very, very revealing questions when we talk about are you keeping up in this new phase with what you knew in previous phases to make sure that you still have that hope that you've had, you know, before.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Yeah. Well, and statistics show that there's a huge drop-off between college and or high school and college of Christians who go to church because you know, oh, well, I'm busy, I got classes, I got a job, I don't know what church to go to. I'm I'm scared to try something new. And it's like, okay, well, as us as leaders, what can we do to help eliminate those excuses? Okay, you don't know what church to try. Well, this is a hu a college-heavy church that there's a lot of students that go there and love. I mean, Springfield, there's a lot of our students that are going to Springfield, and we have tons of alumni that go to college or churches in Springfield that they're like, hey, go get plugged in with this person at this church because they've been there for a while, they love it. You know, the the college environment is there. You guys can grow in small groups together, and there's a community, and there, you know, there's no partying, there's no this none of the secular stuff, but it's just Christ-centered, and that's what you had here. You know, it may look different, but at least you're getting plugged in, at least you're still developing, at least you're still growing, and you're still rooted in Christ.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Yeah, and that's a lot for students, but even adults, you know. Oh, yeah. What why why why why don't you go to a church? Well, that was weird. We try we try this church and oh no. We try this church and we like the preaching, but we didn't like the music. Okay, what about that church? Well, we like the music, but we didn't like the teaching. Okay. What about that church? Well, we like the preaching and the teaching and the music, but we didn't like the children's ministry. Okay, what about the and it's this ecclesiological effect? And like I've met those people literally where I'm like, you have tried out every church from the Mormons to the Catholics to the Lutherans to the Methodists to the Baptists, all the Baptists, and you still haven't found maybe the issue is you, maybe the issue is your heart. You know, it's kind of like the the guy or the girl that dates someone, they date 50 people and they're like, oh yeah, I only date bad you know losers. And it's like, well, you're the one dating them all, right? Yeah. The same is true for church. And so whether it be a college student or I hear that all the time with adults, eh, I'm not really in the faith anymore. Why not? Well, because I didn't get what I wanted out of all these churches. Sometimes we just gotta park ourselves. Somebody else's fault. We gotta plant ourselves and just say, you know what, God, okay, you know what? I'm not a huge fan of the music here. Okay, the teaching eh maybe lingers a little bit here. But you know what, God, I'm not here just to feed myself. I'm not here just to get stuffed on this spiritual buffet. God, I'm here to worship you and to exalt you. Yeah. And sometimes we just gotta stop being so picky, right? And I think that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

I think you nailed the head right on, or you hit the head right on that. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Blah blah blah. Um, because there's a lot of people that try to find that perfect church. Well, Newsflash, you're never gonna find that perfect church. Or here at FBC. Or I've heard a lot of a lot of students say, Um, as I kind of helped send off the seniors last year to college, not that they were I had a lot of relationship with them, but a lot of them when they were trying out these churches, they're like, Yeah, it's good, but it's not like, oh, the worship's not as good as FBC's or that, you know, like, oh, I just love the the teaching. Children's departments, yeah. It's like, well, new slashes. It's not FBC, you know, it's a completely different church. And you can't you can't go to these churches expecting it to be what you came from. You have to come with an open heart and posture of like, okay, these things are a little bit different, but I I can I can do this, you know.

SPEAKER_03 53:05

Well, not to brag, but there has been a concerted effort to make our church fully well-rounded. Right. We want to excellent children's. We want an excellent children's ministry, we want an excellent youth ministry, yeah. We want an excellent adult ministry, Sunday morning service with excellent preaching and music. Not that we're trying to put on a show, right? But we want you to enjoy coming to church, and it's something for everyone in your entire thing.

SPEAKER_02 53:29

Well, it's the body of Christ, the left arm and the right arm and the left. I mean, everything needs to be working together in order to have that. Yeah, the function.

SPEAKER_03 53:36

So it's a per there's a purpose behind it. Yeah. And then I and I I hate to say it, we do get spoilt here, I think. Yeah, yeah. And I don't think people quite understand our well-roundedness as a church. Um, and hopefully that doesn't become a problem for people they believe, but it's tough. I mean, and I've because um what has been built here through Luke and Roger and the youth, and uh what uh Stacy built with our children's ministry and is carrying on, those are huge because they are stepping stones. It starts with the little kids that then get into the youth, that then get into the adult. Yeah, there is a purposeful building, stepping up building blocks that happen over time, creating and building that foundation. Uh, but it is it does get tough because we've worked hard to build that this type of church atmosphere that we have, and it's purposeful.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Yeah, we've done it for a reason for sure. Well, as we as we conclude, I'm gonna let I want you to have the last word. Um and so never lets anybody know. Well, I am just saying because I saw you got a call from the school, so I don't know if you need to get up and leave. Uh but uh so it's uh from uh your one of your students? No, stepdad. That's never good either. Oh, okay, we're gonna wrap this up. But um as we talk about the next phase and specifically to our high schoolers, but even we had some college students that are now graduated from college, and so basically from a faith standpoint, um we got to scratch the surface. But is there any kind of last thoughts or any encouragement that you would give um to those that may be listening, whether they're starting a new phase from an education standpoint or maybe it's just a completely new phase of life, what would you leave them with?

SPEAKER_00 55:07

Yeah, well, I'd say kind of exactly what you said, it's a new stage of life life, it's a new season of life. So it's it's a fresh start for you. You know, you get you kind of get a do-over, essentially, um because nobody knows you. And so uh w as you go out, how are you gonna use that influence? Are you gonna use that influence to impact the people around you of hey, I I'm a believer in Christ, I'm a follower of Christ, and this is how I want to live my life? Um, or are you adapting to what culture has for you? Are you adapting to what the world has for you and saying, oh yeah, well, this looks fun, this looks fun, I want to make a name for myself. And so my encouragement would be as you get a fresh start, are you using that to glorify Christ and using that for good? Or are you going and adapting to the world like the enemy wants you to? So that'd be my encouragement.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

And I'll I'll close with the final word and I'll purpose. No, I did want to add something though. I think you can come back to it. Well, I'll let you, I'll let I'll let you have the last word, but before you do, um, no, it reminds me my favorite Mike Evans quote of all time. When I told him, I said, Well, Mike, you know, you're either a leader or a follower. He said, Nope. He said, Everyone's a leader. You're either a positive leader or you're a negative leader. And I said, you know what? That's 100% true. Yeah, everyone is the leader of something. What are you leading? And are you a positive leader or are you a negative leader?

SPEAKER_03 56:21

That's good. Yeah. Yeah. I was just gonna add, I don't know if when I'm thinking back to the days I graduated high school and was contemplating plans of life as a class of 1947, triple.

SPEAKER_02 56:32

Uh no.

SPEAKER_03 56:33

Uh it was a while ago though. Uh, one of the and whether I was not listening or it wasn't said, it didn't hit me, and I even grew up in a Christian family, I was going to youth group. I did not pray about God, what is your plans for me first?

SPEAKER_01 56:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:50

These are I want to commit. This is what I'd like to go do, right? But I want to know if that is what you have planned for me. Um, and that's a big that's a game changer there. And you surrender your goals and your plans to the Lord, ask him, hey, what do you have for me first? And does that align with what I'm pursuing? Because if it's not, I'm probably not gonna go very far with this, or it's not gonna turn out quite like I want it to, because you have another plan for me.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 57:16

And so um biggest advice for the kids is hey, say a little prayer. Yeah, and just ask the Lord, hey, what what what I'm doing, this is what I'm doing. I want to commit it to you, but I want to do what you want first.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 57:28

Um that's a big deal. I wish I would have done that long time ago. Um, I would have probably there would have been some changes. Yeah, I promise you. Yeah. But I also say that the things I went through defines who I am and it's helped me understand and brought, I hope, some wisdom in my life and to help other people. But um, I don't know if I I changed maybe a few little parts, but not very much.

SPEAKER_00 57:50

And I wish I would have prayed that prayer kind of like you um very pretty early on, especially going into college, because I thought I knew what God wanted for my life, and it wasn't at all. You know, but uh same again, like there was things that I got to be a part of, there was things that I got to grow in that I probably needed, but um yeah, I wish I would have been like, Lord, what do you want for my life? Because what I want for my life is is never gonna be good enough compared to what you have. So I wish I would have prayed that earlier on.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

So yeah. Well, I will close with this. Um, I'm just kidding. I'm not gonna have the last word.

SPEAKER_03 58:21

Uh Gabe gets the last word. Well, he just said the last one.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

Listen, is that it? Can we get into my experience? Well, I accidentally bumped in your career. I literally thought I'm like, did I just say something blasphemous? Because I'm talking and I'm like, well, this is what God has for you. The Holy Spirit is pushing. And you're done. Which I've I've had that, I've had that that voice of the Holy Spirit. Shut up. Shut up. You're you're putting your foot in your mouth right now. Stop talking. If only Luke could get that message or that voice sometimes at the end of his sermon. Stop talking. I had to throw one Luke jab in it. Yeah, hey, thanks for joining us. This is a special edition of Make Heaven Crowded, as we have uh director Gabe. I won't say Coordinator Gabe, even better.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

Well, hey, good job on leading our students, man. It's been great. You guys have been doing a wonderful job.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

So well, hey, we'll see you next time. Same time, same location. Sunday morning, Pastor Luke will be uh concluding our sermon series, and uh we will be starting the book of Romans the week after that. So you won't want to miss that. But until then, Pastor Jordan, Pastor Roger, Coordinator Luke signing off.

SPEAKER_04 59:28

That's Gabe.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

Coordinator Gabe signing off. Signing off.