Make Heaven Crowded

How to break the Chains of Sin | Make Heaven Crowded Ep. 43

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In this episode of Make Heaven Crowded, we dive into the first half of Romans 8 and explore one of the greatest promises of the Christian life: freedom from the power of sin through the Holy Spirit.

So many believers feel trapped in cycles of temptation, shame, and defeat. But Romans 8 reminds us that the Christian life isn't about trying harder—it's about walking by the Spirit. The same Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead now lives in every believer, empowering us to live in true freedom.

We dive into questions like:

• How do we break free from habitual sin?
• What does it mean to "walk according to the Spirit"?
• Why do we continue to struggle even after coming to Christ?
• How can we cultivate a deeper desire for the Holy Spirit than for the things of the flesh?
• What does it look like to set our minds on the things of the Spirit?

Whether you're battling a specific sin, longing for a deeper relationship with God, or simply wanting to understand Romans 8 more clearly, this conversation will encourage you to fix your eyes on Christ and experience the life the Holy Spirit offers.

🎙️ Make Heaven Crowded – Episode 43
📖 Scripture: Romans 8:1–17
✝️ Topics: Romans, The Holy Spirit, Sanctification, Freedom from Sin, Christian Living
🌐 Learn more at teamfbc.info

SPEAKER_02

Thanks for joining us for Make Heaven Crowded. Pastor Roger here with Pastor Jordan and Pastor Luke. We've got a lot to talk about today because we just concluded the first half of Romans chapter 8. Many people yesterday came up to me and said, That is my favorite chapter in the entire Bible because it's that powerful. Period. Period. Yeah. What's your favorite chapter?

SPEAKER_03

How about chapter 8 in Romans?

SPEAKER_02

No, seriously, your all-time favorite chapter?

SPEAKER_03

It goes between chapter 8 in Romans and Luke 15.

SPEAKER_02

Mine's 2 Corinthians 12, Paul and the Thorn. What's your favorite chapter in the entire Bible? Bible? That's a tough question. 1 Peter 3 is another really good chapter. John 4, Woman at the Well. John 4 actually might be my favorite.

SPEAKER_03

Probably Luke 15 is my favorite.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. John 4 is Woman at the Well. So that's a really good one. John 8, woman caught in adultery, is a really good one. Luke 23, Thief on the Cross, good chapter.

SPEAKER_03

If I had to pick one, I'd probably go Luke 15.

SPEAKER_02

I can't pick a single one.

SPEAKER_03

Jordan's going to pick like he looks like a Leviticus 19 type of guy. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02

Philemon. Hey, I'm just going to go to the right. Everyone said it right. Everyone forgets about Philemon. It's a great story.

SPEAKER_03

It actually looks like more of like a Genesis 38. Tell me what that one is.

SPEAKER_01

I can't think of it all. What's the one about the Genesis donkey 38? Is that I don't know. Anyway. That's Numbers 22.

SPEAKER_02

That's with uh how do you spell it? Balaam. Balaam. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01

That's right.

SPEAKER_02

That's a great chapter. Especially in the King James. Um, so, anyways, today uh we're not doing any of those chapters. Oh, we're right. But today we're doing Romans chapter 8. Oh, okay. Um, which of course Romans 8 1, therefore there is no condemnation. Um, and kind of distinguishing the difference between what does it mean to be guilty, which are all guilty in sin, versus condemnation, which is the sentencing or the judgment that we deserve because of our um guilty uh sentence.

SPEAKER_01

I'm still thinking. I'm having a hard time laying on.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's why I wasn't even paying attention to the word you said. No, you're fine. Um so Romans eight, where do we want to start with that?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think it's really good. I obviously love doing like a recap building us up to where we're at in Romans chapter eight, because Paul he's making a pretty great argument here of now what it looks like. Hey, righteous people are the people that get to go to heaven. What does it look like to live a righteous life? And you know, we've talked about extensively the past few weeks that many Christians they like calling upon Jesus as their savior, but not upon their Lord. When he is your Lord, something takes place, and that is we are deposited the Holy Spirit. We receive that, and that's what makes us righteous. And so how do we live now according to that spirit and according to that instead of the flesh? And that's really what he starts kicking off in Romans chapter eight of all right, now that we're not condemned, this is what it looks like to live in the spirit.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and probably my favorite illustration I used yesterday was the illustration of my dog that was chewing on the ugly tree branch, the muddy tree branch that we can all see and we know it's disgusting, we know it's not good. And the moment my dog was offered something better, um, she stopped growling at my dad because she was protecting that branch. She didn't she nobody could touch that branch, right? But the moment she saw something better, she sprinted away. And the analogy was the branch is sin, the branch is death, but that the beginning strip was the spirit, it's life.

SPEAKER_03

With the bacon from Carol?

SPEAKER_02

No, it was begging, it's not real bacon. It's a dog tree. Like I said in the sermon, it smells like bacon, does not taste like bacon, which is unfortunate. That is. But the idea was when we experience what it truly means to have that life of the Holy Spirit, we look at our old sin and we look at it, and it is the muddy, disgusting, filthy tree branch. Well, I had someone after first service come up to me and ask a really good question. Okay, if it's that easy for the dog to distinguish the two, why is it so hard for me? Because I know that sin is death, I know that the spirit is life, but it's not always as easy as just sprinting away from the old self into this new life that we have with the Holy Spirit. I think it's a good question, right? Of why going back to Paul, I uh what I hate, I do. We know we hate it, we know it's bad, we know it doesn't give us, you know, the things that that that uh you know uh encourage us in life, and yet for some reason it seems easier to say, no, I think I'm just gonna stick with the branch. I think I'm gonna keep chewing on this.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, when you I heard the illustration, I'm like, how does he do that? How does he find illustrations that specific from his life and childhood growing up? Like a lot of stories. I'm like, did he make that up from when he was 10? Or like does he go back in the memory bank and is able to remember that? No, the answer is that's the part I was.

SPEAKER_02

You should see my notes. I just have a sermon illustration notes where I have like a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03

So when you thought of your dog, you just like wrote it in your sermon illustration?

SPEAKER_02

No, I shared that, I shared that like well Sierra was on staff because then she joked about because the dog my dog's name was Monkey. Um, but uh no, that that was one that I used like years ago. And then I usually have like a three-year rule on on illustrations, except on the on the Dahmer one. I'd use that, it was less than three years ago, but it was so good. And then of course I had like 30 people text me their screenshot of they ordered the book after I said it. So that's one I use a little bit more soon. But yeah, I I I don't know. It it's I think when you're a user.

SPEAKER_03

I'm saying it's impressive. Like you can go back to the memory bank to remember those things. I you were talking about this in chapter eight, and we get to that point of where it says no condemnation.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

This is the part that I think Christians, we have a hard time understanding. Well, what's the difference of like me feeling condemned because I've done something wrong and then conviction? How is one bad and one's good? What is the difference between?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I would say subtly they're different because again, conviction is a I don't want to just say it's a feeling, because I define guilt, guilty is the feeling associated with doing something wrong. Conviction is the realization that I need to change, right? It is the opening of the heart, it's the spiritual epiphany, if you will, of okay, I need to do this instead of this. Conviction should not just be a feeling, but conviction is actually, or I'm sorry, condemnation. Condemnation is an act, right? I am condemned, which means, okay, because you know what you've done is wrong, because you've done this thing, this is what you receive due to your guilt. Right. So condemnation is actually, okay, now I am condemned to this, whereas conviction is simply the heart, you know, the Holy Spirit penetrating the heart and saying, You're living this lifestyle, you need to turn away from that and do this.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And so how do we handle that balance where Paul is telling us, hey, because of him, therefore, all of these things we are no longer condemned, but yet still understand conviction is a good thing. Conviction is a good thing.

SPEAKER_02

Um and that's the old saying that I heard a pastor say, conviction is uh is of the spirit, guilt is of the devil, because conviction leads to life change, guilt just makes us feel bad, right? Um, but I also think guilt is necessary because if we don't feel guilt, then we don't establish the need for a savior.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So I would say that's the difference between conviction and guilt.

SPEAKER_03

But why would you say both of them bring guilt, but one in a negative and one in a positive? Like in a condemnation, if you feel guilty because you are feeling like you're being condemned for your actions, that would be the wrong form of guilt. But if you are have the feeling of being guilty because you're convicted of what you've been doing and it motivates you to change, it'd be one that is of good.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I think what I would say, and you could disagree with this, is guilt doesn't, or I'm sorry, condemnation doesn't bring guilt oftentimes, but guilt brings condemnation. So I would say that guilt happens before condemnation. Guilt is the realization that I the analogy I gave of the courtroom, the evidence that the prosecution has against me is overwhelming. Every sin, everything that I've done, every person that I've wronged, my defense attorney looks at me and says, Buddy, I've got nothing. Right? I know I'm guilty. The result of that guilt is condemnation. And what Paul is saying, no, you can build you can be guilty, but through Christ, your guilt doesn't lead to condemnation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, going back to the question the person asked, I I'm wondering if the they're not so much asking about guilt and condom condemnation or a conscience or anything like that. The question is, how do I make the Holy Spirit as enticing to me like bacon?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's that's probably a good question.

SPEAKER_01

So like the dog, the dog was able quickly able to distinguish your dog monkey is quickly able to distinguish from the filthy branch that your dad's trying to get him away from. Yeah. And you came out and helped with the bacon, which represented the Holy Spirit, and immediately the dog, your dog monkey wanted the bacon. Yeah. Bacon strip, which to him it's gonna taste great. Yeah. I think what I'm wondering what the person is asking is how do I make the Holy Spirit so enticing that I will drop that dirty branch in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_02

Because the Holy Spirit, that's a good uh way to put it because I think we see examples, right? We highlight testimonies. I use Danny Gibbs a lot, but Danny Gibbs's Danny Gibbs' story is running from the branch to get the bag and strip. Like it was an immediate thing. And I think sometimes Christians can maybe get frustrated because they're like, yeah, it's not that easy for me. Like I can't just not as enticing. You know, what Danny will tell you with alcohol, he's like, I never craved it again. That's not everybody's testimony, right? And so I think that that illustration, for me, I I put it this way. Um, if you promise me that diet and exercising, I will lose this weight, I will gain this muscle mass, it is as obvious. I know that that doing that is going to lead to all of these incredible things. But just because I know the end result, just because I know that it will do all of these good things for me, doesn't mean it's easy enough to set the alarm for 5 30 a.m. for the morning run, right? It doesn't mean that it's easy, even though we can clearly see what one road leads to versus what the other road leads to.

SPEAKER_01

So how so that's I think the underlying question in all this is I mean, to me, chapter uh verse five of chapter eight is the key verse here, but those who live in accordance with the holy, and this is the second part of it, but those who live in accordance with the spirit have their minds set on what the spirit desires. How do I set my mind on what the spirit desires? What how do I what do I gotta do to get that action going so that I am I quit going back to the the nasty branch?

SPEAKER_02

And the Greek word that Paul uses for mindset, it is absorb or consume. And so what he's saying is that when your mind is set on the spirit, it literally means that it dictates and defines every action of your life should be led with the Holy Spirit. So it's not just a change of like, okay, I'm gonna try to pivot my priorities or I'm gonna try to pivot my mindset. Paul is saying that you have to allow it to absorb you in that it becomes all that you do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, which is exactly how Christ was. Yeah, he was obviously born of the Spirit. So that's how his mind and heart, everything about him was inlignment with the Holy Spirit, and only wanting to follow what the Spirit wanted to do. How do then, as fleshly people, obviously he was fleshly, but yet we I mean there is still a difference. Obviously, we're born again and now we have the Holy Spirit, but there's still a difference. You he was born of the Spirit right out of the gate, he is God. Uh I hate to say it that he has a little bit of an advantage. Still 100% human, still had all of the, you know. But how do we then become there's a obviously we're trying to be more and more and more like Christ. We see his example through how he lived in the New Testament and then in the gospels, uh, and then reiterated uh several different ways uh throughout the different letters in the New Testament. But for us, it's we our DNA, our fabric of us, everything about us was first sinful and fleshly. How do we then create shift? How do we how do we change that heart and mindset to then desire the Holy Spirit? How do we make the Holy Spirit like the beginning strip? And I think that's sorry, that I think that's what people are asking. Because that's a that's much, it's very much easier said than done. You can read that and go, oh, okay, but yet the dirty branch seems to be more enticing and more entertaining and whatever than the bacon strip. Agreed. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I how do we change that? How do we fix that? I heard this illustration talking about Jesus becoming fully God and fully man. And in his fully God nature, when he emptied himself out to become man, think of like this coffee, for instance. Whenever it was in the pot that we made it, it was in a big pot, a lot of cups of coffee in it. When I poured it into this. It started out on the counter this morning because I forgot to put the pot under the in this and but I poured it into this cup. When I poured that coffee from the pot into the cup, did the contents change that was inside? The coffee was still the same, but it's just in a different vessel, correct. Like, right. So I can't have as much of it because it emptied itself out into here. Or a portion of it. Portion of it because of that. In the same way, that's what Christ did when he became man, right? He emptied himself out of some of the godliness, still fully God, because again, just like this is the same coffee that was in the pot, it's still fully God. Now he has with us what? A different vessel because he's now fully man. The thing is with us as Christians, what I believe takes place, is whenever we give our life to Christ, we don't empty ourselves out in order for God to be emptied into us. Right. And to receive the Spirit. And so when I hear, I mean our mind are still fixed on the flesh instead of the things of the Spirit. I do believe that as Christians, we continually need to go through an empty outing process of like literally sit down, empty out everything that you have in your life. Are you willing to get rid of it all for Christ? Yeah. And if there's something there, it's like I don't want to change that, or oh, I can't get rid of that, then there you you know. You know what you are still putting there and you're fixing your eyes on more than the spirit. Yeah. And so that's there has to be that though mindset shift of taking place. But it's hard for us to do that when we're still living in it all. And so we have to be get to the point where we can empty ourselves out.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so it's almost like in this, if we could take all of Paul's letters and mash them together, we would have read Colossians and Corinthians and others' letters where he talks about taking off the old self. Yeah. And he goes through the laundry list of all those things of what that looks like, and then putting on the new self, which then he'll talk about those different things. But then this is all kind of talking about the same thing, but maybe in a more condensed one or couple verse example. But yeah, I think that's you're you're you're hitting the nail on the head, and that it requires a lot of us to have self-introspection and truly be committed to the whole, I want to live by the Spirit, what's that gonna require me? Yeah, but going back And then going through detail within our lives.

SPEAKER_02

And I think going back to the dog illustration, what may may be more relatable to some Christians is that if Monkey would have said, Oh, the beginning strip, okay, I've got to drag the branch to get the beginning strip, or maybe even some would say, Okay, I can't take the whole branch with me because I've got to get the beginning strip. So I'm gonna bite off just a little piece of the branch to take with me in the idea of we want our cake and eat it too. I still want the spirit, I still want life, but I'm still not willing to let go of this branch that I know is filthy, I know it's disgusting, but man, it's so enticing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and okay, I'm curious. After Monkey got the beginning strip and you and your dad go inside, did Monkey go back to the dirty branch? No, I think dad went out with a chainsaw and got rid of the branch so that it was not possible. So then how do we get the chainsaw out and get rid of the dirty branch?

SPEAKER_03

And I think that's the problem, because I think what many of us do, we go grab the bacon. We just go and lay at the feet of cake and eat the food. We go and lay at the feet of the of the dirty branch. And I think it's because I that we don't the enemy makes it so enticing. Yeah. Like he convinced convinces us, is it really that bad? Like it goes back to the sin that he was talking about of the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, the pride of life, the same thing that he's been using. He makes us think, you know what, that's really not that bad.

SPEAKER_02

Because in the most practical sense, let's say monkey drags the branch and gets the begging strip. Did we actually solve anything at all? No. It's uh you granted she did obtain something that was better. It's just a quick distraction. But it was a distraction based off of what ultimately the source of her of her infatuation in that moment, which is I have something that I'm not and I'm not kidding, monkey was the friendliest dog ever, but she growled. Like when that drug, she growled at because it's like and I see pee and I see even Christians. Yeah, even last week when I I I went off on a off-topic thing about cussing, as Christians. Um, when you use a curse word, why do we say curse word? Because James says the same tongue that you use to bless, you use to curse. And I I had a couple people say, Well, you know, societally they didn't have this, and and you know why they're ardently defending this idea that, well, cussing's not a sin the way it was. It's because that's and I'm not saying any names, but I'm like, you just revealed what your sin is. You revealed what your branch is, and you're willing to protect that branch, even over me saying, here's what God's word says. Yeah, but you're kind of reading it wrong. No, I'm not reading it wrong. You just don't want to let go of the branch, right? That's that's the that's the fact.

SPEAKER_03

But that's what like if you give the enemy just a crack, like if you just give him just a crack. An inch will take a bunch. Like you just give him just if you compromise one little bit, that's all he needs you to do. And I think with this, like where he's talking about our eyes are so fixed on the flesh, the going back to Danny's illustration about alcohol, you know why the work of God, but also Danny made the decision, I'm never going to touch it again. And so mentally, he cut it off. And what he was doing, he was telling saying, You can't use this against me. And so it didn't matter what it was or not, he's like, he's already made the decision, predetermined it's not gonna happen. What many people do that we see that are alcoholics that give their life to Christ are like, you know what, I'm gonna cut back drinking. I'm only gonna do it whenever I have a good day to celebrate, where I have something to celebrate. You know what? I'm only gonna do it when it's a good day. But you know, sometimes at a bad day, I need to have it too. Well, then do you know what happens is well, you can find any reason to have a good day. Yeah, you can also find any reason to have a bad day, and then they find themselves in the same cycle. Why? Because they compromise one little bit. They they just compromised one thing and he allowed it. And so that's where I think the emptiness and we've got to shift our focus to of like cut it off, make the decision, and move forward from that.

SPEAKER_01

I'm smiling because I have a friend that his uh reason to want to have a drink is because the day ended in Y. Yeah. That's everything.

SPEAKER_02

Listen, I've back from law enforcement to ministry, I've talked to many alcoholics, they wouldn't call themselves that. And I asked them, why don't you think you're an alcoholic? And this is their response, because if I want to go a day without it, I can. And I'm like, that's that's your response to I'm not addicted because if I really needed to, I can go Monday without drinking. Oh, but kid you. Exactly. And that's that's really where we're talking about. And I think you said it a couple podcasts ago, and I think it's a great point. When people say, I'm not gonna become a Christian because I want my freedom. Well, look what you if that's the case, if you think religion is what is gonna allow you to not have freedom, look what you don't have freedom from right now. The fact that, oh, I can't take more than a day away from alcohol. You have no freedom.

SPEAKER_03

Then my question would come back to is how many times do you think about it during that day? Oh, yeah. Like I I can go a day without doing it. If I okay, how many times are you like, man, I really need a drink. Or I really want to drink the force or something. And you're like, you know what, I can just make it through one day.

SPEAKER_02

I can count down the hours till Tuesday. Because I I only promise Monday, right?

SPEAKER_01

That's the other day that ends in the water.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. Yeah. So you're outside looking at the branch, you're not getting it, but you're like, tomorrow I'm going back to that branch. Are you free? There's no freedom whatsoever in that. You you are in chains to whatever that thing is that is your branch.

SPEAKER_01

But in that, do you feel that you're in chains to it? I don't think people feel that they're in chains. That's why sin is they don't think of it as being freed from anything.

SPEAKER_02

And that's why sin is so slick. Yeah. And it convinces you that this is where you need to be.

SPEAKER_03

But I think that's a major problem people have is they can find the Bible verse to back up whatever they do. Yeah. Like they they they can they try to make the Bible and twist it to fit, to make their what they're doing okay. Hey, why is this dirty branch okay? Well, this is what the Bible says, and and so it gives me the freedom to be able to do it. But I think they're missing the main point of like when something happens when Jesus becomes your Lord and what it looks like to pursue him and actually live for him and according to the spirit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And so But I also say that some people can rationalize it and say, Well, it's I can manage it better. It's not to an extreme where it's going to get me in trouble where I'm not getting behind the wheel, or I'm just hanging out by myself at home. I'm not doing this in front of my kids, or whatever it is. Uh, I think people can do a really good job of rationalizing and making it seem more innocent and it doesn't hurt anybody. Yeah. And then they don't feel like it's not a problem.

SPEAKER_02

You know, alcohol's an easy one, but and that's why I thought the cussing one was funny because we we talk about alcohol and drugs and porn and you know, all of those things, but we never talk about cussing. Yeah. And I think that that's one that steps up.

SPEAKER_01

Isn't there even a shirt that says I love Jesus, but like us?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly. And I'm not saying like if you say the F-word, you're you're doomed to hell, we're all doomed to hell. That's why we're no more condemnation. That's why Jesus comes. But like even the idea, and I said yesterday, um, everyone's filing cabinet is big, but then you get to the gossip side of the filing cabinet, and you're that's that's really where the filing cabinet is big. And so it's easy, maybe you're listening to this and you're like, well, I've never struggled struggled with substances, and so this isn't for me. It doesn't just have to be the beer of the blank. It can be whatever your sin may be that you struggle with. That ultimately is the branch that you're like, yeah, I know I've got life over here, but man, that still looks really good over.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I don't want people to call you out for being illegalistic. So, like, just a side note on the cussing part, I think it totally deals with context and crowd. And so, like, if your crowd is people who they view that as a cuss word, and by you using it, you are causing them to stumble, or you don't know the crowd and you use it, but society deems that as a bad word, then you are not representing Christ. Therefore, I would say in that moment it is a sin. And also context, many people use cuss words to do what? Tear people down. Yeah. Well, and obviously those two issues become is when it becomes a good thing. Well, I don't want to turn it.

SPEAKER_02

I don't want to turn into a a cussing uh podcast because then we'll get demonetized. But I would say go back and listen. I I give during second service, which I think we only I don't know which one we post, so maybe it's not up there. But second service, I made a clarification, and we had all the fuge kids, so I thought this is a great opportunity. But the idea. Of is again what James says about the tongue, the same that you bless, the same that you curse. Paul says when you we use unwholesome language, and so today society would say using that language is unwholesome, but then what Jesus says that every you will account for every word, right? Every word that we speak on this earth towards someone, about someone, it doesn't matter, that we will have to account for that word, right? And so that's the idea that the language you use, um, and I agree that oftentimes when we're cussing, we're cussing towards someone, yeah, and it's in anger. But even when you're around a bunch of people and all that they do is cuss, you realize, oh wow, um you guys can't stop. It's it's not that, oh, well, I just I don't want to use it anymore. But for some people, they literally you meet people where every other word is the F-word, and you're like they have a small vocabulary. They couldn't quit if they tried, right?

SPEAKER_03

You ever hung out with our northern brothers, the Canadians? It is it is intense. No, it is I didn't know Canadians cuss. Oh, I thought they just said A. Oh no, man. Hey, buddy. They say no. At least the guys I played baseball with from Canada, they introduced me to some new words. It was crazy. Anyway, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02

So, not to go off on a tangent about about cut, and I'm not saying that's the I'm not here throwing stones in glass houses to say, oh, if you cuss, you need to repent. You should have heard what you just told me before we came home. Um even as a pastor, there's times where I say something, I'm like, okay, God, I'm sorry. Maybe that was not the correct wording in that. Um, but I'll tell you, when I became a Christian, the first I would say four or five years of me being a Christian, my cussing really did not slow down. And really what convicted me was something that Matt told me. My pat he said, Do you sound any differently today than the day before Jesus you found Jesus? And my answer in my day-to-day conversation is there is zero difference in how I speak today versus how I spoke the day I met Christ. And that is the idea of the an illustration I used of the Holy Spirit is is living inside of you. Is there evidence that your house is occupied, right? Your house being you, your temple. If people walk by that house, do they say, okay, there's activity, there's movement. We know that that house is occupied. And I came to the realization if someone hung out with me for an hour, they would never guess that I was a Christian unless I told them I was a Christian. And that's really what convicted me. And I'll tell you, it probably took a year. Um but I never used the F word after that. It it it ceased from my vocabulary.

SPEAKER_01

But in that for you, there had to be an application of okay, I'm gonna make a change. And just out of curiosity, since you have that example, a life example, what did you do to purposefully make a change in your life? Because something got you to want to make the change. Obviously, maybe Pastor Matt highlighting it or making you aware of it. But even when someone can be made aware of something or they know it, they still have the choice of saying, I don't care.

SPEAKER_02

And I and again, when I made the decision I was gonna stop, I still use the F-word afterwards, but I was more intentional. And when it would slip, I would stop, I would close my eyes, and I would say, okay, listen. And then guess what? I became a police officer. And guess who probably beats out Canadians on the F-word meter? Is not to say cops are bad people, but man, there's some language that flies around the old uh police station. And so again, just being intentional and truly praying and asking God, God, I need the strength to be a new version of myself today. Um, and some days God answered that prayer, other days maybe he tried to answer it and I wouldn't let him answer that prayer. But I think it was intentionality of, okay, I just said the F word. Okay, stop. I'm not gonna condemn myself because I'm not mine to condemn, right? God is the only one that can condemn me, and he's already said no condemnation. But I'm gonna use this as an opportunity to try to do better next time. And after about a year of just that muscle memory, um never said the F word.

SPEAKER_01

But it was definitely a conscience, conscious effort to truly change, and you wanted to change.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, 100%. And again, that was probably five years into my walk with Christ. That wasn't three weeks after I became a Christian. So, not to say that to condemn every single person that that struggles with cussing, but it is an idol. It is something that in that we try to use scripture to say, well, the F-word didn't exist in the Bible. Yeah. Okay, well, the word homosexuality didn't exist until 1946, right? I mean, we can make those types of arguments, but it's funny how those arguments become the strongest. And I say this all the time. Sinners really become biblical scholars whenever their one sin is under attack. And then all of a sudden they can read Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and they're like, well, you know, that word actually meant this. And it's like, it's incredible how you dive into your Bible whenever you're the one on the on the witness stand, right?

SPEAKER_03

So Yeah, and again, uh, because it goes back to them trying to justify instead of them praying like, Lord search me. Like if this is a sin, I'm I need I need to remove it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I so I watched a pot I watched a uh episode. So have you heard of Jubilee? Charlie Kirk did it, Ben Shapiro did it, where they get one guy or gal up, and then there's 25 people surrounding them. It's pretty impressive. It's incredible, it really is fun to watch. It it it's it's useless because of course nobody's changing their minds. But I don't know if you know Ali Beth Stuckey.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Ali Beth Stuckey was on Jubilee, and she's a she's a conservative Baptist Christian. She's a Calvinist, but we can pray for, and she's she's in the middle of this. Going to heaven too. Nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect. She she's she's incredible. I really Ali Beth Stuckey is something I think every Christian should really read and research. She she's written some really good stuff. But she's surrounded by 25 progressive Christians. So I would encourage you, YouTube, Ali Beth Stuckey versus 25 progressive Christians. And of course, she's very informed of the Bible, she's very informed of the Greek, but to hear the arguments they're making are actually really good arguments if you don't know the actual facts. And so they start arguing, well, arsenicoitite is the is the Greek word used in 1 Corinthians 6 9. The context of that often was temple prostitution. And so Paul, he's not writing about two consensual homosexuals, he's writing about men with 12-year-old boys. Oh, well, you hear that, and you're like, well, that makes all the sense in the world. Except that's not actually the entire truth of what Paul is writing. And so Ali Beth is doing her best, but that's a perfect example where all of these people that call themselves Christians, and you ask yourself, is what is your priority first? And this would be my question if I was in the middle of this 25 group, is your number one priority the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, or is your number one priority protecting your own lustful thoughts? And I think if you gave them truth serum, they would have to say, No, I think it's the latter, not the former.

SPEAKER_01

Even regardless of what Paul might have meant by that one word, you look at the broad understanding of what God is his overall art overarching plan of life is to be fruitful and multiply. Well, you can't if you're in a homosexual relationship. So it doesn't even match to God's.

SPEAKER_02

And what what what historical event does he always go back to? The garden. He always goes back to the garden.

SPEAKER_01

So I mean it again, it's yeah, they're trying to mince and slice and dice to protect the sin they want to live in and somehow find a way to condone it or rationalize it. And you can just as it is as cussing, is that you can literally just take whatever it is out, it's a fill in the blank. Yeah, and sometimes it's a comma blank, comma, blank, comma, blank. But again, it's why do we do that? Why do we constantly try and rationalize our sin and find a way to get around it?

SPEAKER_02

And that's why I would say progressive, and I've when I was a youth pastor, students all the time would send me. Can you describe progressive Christianity? Progressive Christianity is the idea that morality is progressing. And so at one point we had a regressive moral code. We had things in the Bible such as slavery that people don't understand. And so the idea is that the moral progress of society, we're actually going to elevate that to the idea that we're going to fit God into the progression of the moral code of society, not vice versa. The other, um we say the term social justice, but social justice existed within Christianity. The idea that we're going to use Jesus as the idea of social justice, that the goal of being a Christian is to feed the poor, is to house the unclothed and all or uh clothe the unclothed, house the homeless. And yes, that's a byproduct of Christian faith, but that's not the primary goal of Christian faith. And so I've had countless students send me, hey Roger, there's this theologian on TikTok, and he's very well informed, and he's arguing that homosexuality isn't a sin. How would you respond to this? And you watch it, and again, for people that aren't as educated on the Bible as maybe us three are, you're gonna hear that and you're gonna think, okay, I can have my branch and get the begging script. I can follow Jesus, but I can also say, you know what, homosexuality, that's that's not a sin. Why? Because morality has progressed. We now live in a progressive culture that says those things actually aren't harmful anymore.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think you did a good job teaching hermeneutics whenever you you do every time when you preach. But on Sunday you even said, hey, therefore, good hermeneutic tactic means therefore, why why what is it therefore? A great hermeneutic topic as well is when you're approaching scripture, why are you approaching it? Are you approaching scripture to form, like to let it shape your beliefs about God? Or are you approaching scripture for it to provide validation for your beliefs or support for what you already believe? And so you have to do a heart check. What's your motive? What's your motive of why you are reading it in the first place? But you know, as you're reading chapter 8, it's all pointing to this point. I'm gonna give away what I'm gonna talk about on Sunday, the backpack of part of Romans 8, and it says, for I'm I'm not convinced, neither neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither uh the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither the height nor death, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Everything is pointing back to the love of Christ. And so that's what I'm going back to of like the bacon strip branch analogy. I know we went way deep into that portion, but even talking about what our mindset is set on. It's not saying, all right, what can I do to continue to get away with, but yet still be a Christian and still be following. I think we look at that as uh, you know, where's the line? Or what laws do I have to follow, what rules do I have to follow to be a good Christian or or to be righteous? And what Jesus is saying is like, no, it's all about your heart. Like, I just want you to love me. I loved you so much I gave my life for you. I just want you to love me. It's like the same essence of like when you get married, you know, are you are you a husband now? Can you go golf with your buddies every single night and still be married? Absolutely. Does that make you a good husband, though? Like, are you are you loving your wife how she needs to be loved, or are you still chasing after your own selfish desires to go be a good golfer? Or like are you going out with your friends every single night or every single weekend and not spending time with your wife? Or are you doing everything as what you can get out of it instead of serving her and all those things? You would still be married, but again, what are you doing it the motive for? Are you doing it for yourself or are you living your life out of love for her? And it's the same way as Christ is like, yeah, like you're looking at not the rules and the laws of the things to follow. He just wants your heart and to pursue him, and that's what it looks like to live in the spirit is to continue to focus in on what that love looks like for him and living accordingly.

SPEAKER_01

But then I think from that uh things flow from that. Starting point is we start with wanting to love Jesus. Well, what is one of the greatest ways to love Jesus? He says to go love other people, to prove our love is to go love other people like he loves us. But there so I think that's the starting point, but you then several things flow after that, one of which is another way to love Jesus is to also live like him and do your best to follow his foot's footsteps and follow how he lived. But again, it comes back to how do you make that enticing over the sins. I think that's the struggle, and that's the application point of your sermon that I think people really need help understanding.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, no, and and uh I I say all the time, Christianity can be simple, but simple doesn't always mean easy. Following Jesus is simple in that it it's laid out. This is this is this is what we are to do, but that doesn't always mean easy. Um and we will we will fall short. We will sin. What we talked about last week, sinless perfectionism. There's still going to be moments where you sin. There's going to be moments where you find yourself back at the branch, and you know, so yeah, I wish there was just an easy answer of this is how you can always make. But I think but I think the mindset going back to where where Paul says where your mind is set, where your mind is consumed, removing those. We we talked about it extensively on this podcast, but removing the things that will remind you that the branch is still there, the things that remind you that the branch can still seem good in the moment, doing all of the things necessary to make sure, not that the branch is going to disappear, because it's always gonna be there, right? There's always gonna be the opportunity to fall back into where we once were, but to do everything we can to try and separate again what Paul says, the spirit of life and the sin of death.

SPEAKER_01

So I mean, one of the things that came to my mind as I was thinking through the application side of it was okay, how do you make the Holy Spirit enticing? And it's just like, man, it's just it's not. Well, then pray for that. Lord, I need you to help me make you enticing. Just like the I think it's I went and so what came to mind was the the dad, the father, I think it's Mark 9, the help my unbelief. Yeah, I need you to help me with my unbelief. Yeah, it's so true. I need your help to to help me help make you enticing to me. I I had that's part of my problem.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I love that it's I believe, help me with my unbelief. It's like Jesus, I am giving all to you, but Jesus, there's still that unbelief. I have a problem still. There's still doubt, right?

SPEAKER_01

And then what he does is he asks the one to help him with his um belief in him. Yeah. I'm falling short in believing, I believe you, but I'm still not believing you enough. I need your help. The one I can't believe, I need you to then help me believe in you more. It's a really wild experience or opportunity where it's the same thing with the Holy Spirit. I think that Holy Spirit, I I need your help making you enticing. What do I I I can't do it, and I'm clearly not good at it. So I need your help in that. I need your help in making that nasty branch. All of a sudden, I realize, whoa, that's nasty. I don't want to touch that. I don't even want to touch it with a 10-foot clean branch. You know, I what do I but you got to help me with that? And and that's the kind of that's one of the things I immediately thought of as we were, I was just thinking through how do you apply this? It was the well, we just need the start at the very beginning of holy spirit, I need your help. And make your you help me.

SPEAKER_03

But that comes with some dangerous prayers. I mean, like, have you oh yeah, you guys ever got food poisoning? You guys know I have. Yeah, I do have a power. Okay, that's a wild story. Right. So like we'll save that one. I've I've had it a couple times. But do you know what's really hard to do after getting food poisoning from something?

SPEAKER_02

Eat the same thing again?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you don't want it ever for a long, long, long time.

SPEAKER_03

I got I got some from Subway one time. Oh, that wasn't the example I was taking. No, I've thought I've had it twice. You guys know one. The second one was at Subway.

SPEAKER_01

And When was the last time you had Subway since then?

SPEAKER_03

I haven't.

SPEAKER_01

Never mind. How long ago was it?

SPEAKER_03

Like four years ago.

SPEAKER_02

See, what's funny? It's funny you say that. I've never so in eighth grade, I hate I don't you you'd think a boy like me, I love fudge. I don't like fudge. Because when I was in eighth grade, I ate fudge, got dead, I ate too much fudge. I don't think it was food poisoning. I just ate too much of it and got super, super sick. And to this day, the thought of fudge, I don't like it.

SPEAKER_03

And literally, it's it triggered something. It was great in your mind. Anytime I like think of Subway, I go back to that moment. I think of that story. And it's remote. Guess what? I'd rather fast and not eat than go to Subway. I love Subway. But like the same way. No dig on Subway. No, no, I mean you guys can have footlongs all you want. Like, I'm I but I am not.

SPEAKER_00

I'm on Subway.

SPEAKER_03

And and I know what the mistake was. I was in Licking Missouri, and I got the Italian sub that had probably been sitting out for the past three days because nobody eats Subway in Licking Missouri. If they make it in front of you, yeah, but like it's on the desk. Like, how long have you just been sitting out right there? You know, just the ingredients. Yeah, you know, and so but I still mentally I can't do it. But the same thing, what if that's how like we were with our sin? True in our flesh. Like, and that was your prayer, like, Lord, make that a poison in my life. Like Are you ready for that? If I even consume it, make me sick where I don't want it again. Like, if that's how serious you are about it, why wouldn't you pray that? That's standing alcohol.

SPEAKER_02

Like he says, even the thought of drinking, he's like, it grosses me. I don't want it.

SPEAKER_03

It's disgusting. But like if you're that serious about it, that's what you that's should be what you would do.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, or you should. Yeah, but I think we overcome it. Be ready, be ready for God to answer that prayer. Oh, absolutely but don't you want that to happen? That's what I'm saying. Truly, but be careful what you wish for because you just might get it. And that's where that could be a dangerous prayer. And like when you're ready to take that step, that's a radical step. And be ready to say, okay, all the things I enjoyed yesterday, those those things may not seem as enjoyable.

SPEAKER_03

Well, that's what like I'm saying, like, if you are serious about getting it out of your life and you're like, I'm just really struggling doing it, do it. Yeah, pray like that dirty branch, that Lord, that you lose all desire, that it'd be a poison that you would show up. Get sick, like whatever. But also to finish off, and then we'll go into the illustration you were talking about, is I think we overcomplicate it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And again, I think we overcomplicate it because it again it comes back to love. And it comes back to think of your marriage, like my job as a husband is to study Emily, learn Emily, and know her heart and her desires as well as she knows her heart and her desires. And then do the best I can to fulfill that and to serve her and help her meet those needs. Why? Because that's what Christ did for me. And so as a leader of my household, that's what I'm called to do for her. Does that mean I'm gonna have to do things that I don't want to do because I know that's what she needs and what she desires in that moment? Absolutely. But I'm not focusing on the task, I'm focusing on on how much I love her. Do I really want to go home? And do I wanna she's gonna be working late? Do I want to go home and clean everything up and do all these different things? So all she has to do is come home and focus on the the boys because I know that's all she wants to do. No, I don't want to do that. No, I don't want to do laundry, no, I don't want to do uh wash the dishes, but I'm not focused on the task, I'm focused on her heart. And I'm gonna do those tasks because I love her that much. I think in the same way we brought that same approach to our relationship with Christ and we focused on his heart, the task it becomes whatever I need to do, because you're so focused on his heart and doing what you can to achieve.

SPEAKER_01

And that's a change in orientation of thinking and wants and desires again. And so, uh, but even for some people, that's a hard thing to even understand what you're doing for Emily, is their first response is that's not my job. That's not my worry.

SPEAKER_03

Because we're so focused on the task or our heart instead of their heart, and that's what I'm saying. Like, if we want to make this as simple as possible, focus on the heart of Jesus, focus on loving him, and then you're gonna start seeing things naturally fall into place and doing what you need to do. Are you gonna always get it wrong, right? No, you're gonna get it wrong. But that's part of like learning and um understanding more and more about who he is and what his calling is and what his desire is.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, not even add uh not only do we make it more difficult, I think part of that is we think it's dependent on our strength. Yeah. Uh which obviously, if you haven't noticed, you failed every time. So it's it can't be just your strength. And I'm not saying you, but in general, all of us, we fail when we think it's all on our abilities and our strength. And you need to go to the higher power, obviously. That's why. Yeah, and granted, you need to have some skin in the game, obviously. Uh, but again, it comes back to I don't have it in me to do that, and I gotta admit that and I gotta own that. And now I go to my higher power and say, You're gonna have to help me with that.

SPEAKER_03

But like it, you and we talked about it, and you said, Hey, sometimes it's hard to follow the spirit, but it's almost we've even talked about it, it's almost like a drug. Once you surrender and say yes one time and let him share your the gospel through you one time, or you step out of your comfort zone and you say yes one time, you're like, Oh my gosh. And you you you want to do it again. Yeah. Because you want that feeling and you want to do it again. The issue is we never get to that point where we allow him to do it just one time.

SPEAKER_01

I've even found like, you know, even just uh for some people, it may be that whole idea of for my spouse, I'm going to clean up the kitchen, or I'm gonna unload the dishwasher, I'm gonna clean up this or that, or I'm or just clean up after yourself, even. Um, and if you're in that position of, well, I don't want to. Yeah, I don't feel like doing it. You know what? Pray for that.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Just pray in that and say, Hey Lord, will you change that in me to where I will have joy and I will want to do that for my spouse? I even find that I I've started doing that with just different tasks. Um, even things at work, every every job has their things that you're like, oh, I hate doing that. Yeah. Now I found myself just saying, No, I need to change that. Lord, will you help me find joy in this, in this task that I just don't want to do? But will you turn that around and make it where I look forward and I have joy and wanting to do that? It's good.

SPEAKER_02

But I think it but I think it could be difficult. But you know, there was a YouTube video I was I'd watched this several months ago, but it was a a bunch of psychologists and psychiatrists, mental health professionals, and they were having a round table conversation. And some of them were Christian, but they're most of them were non-Christian, they were non-religious. And you know, the one thing they all agreed on is that when it when dealing with addicts or people with a troubled past, the best answer for them is God. Now, again, many of these psychologists they don't believe in God. They knew they needed a higher power. And there was one psychologist in particular, and he was a Harvard-trained PhD guy, and he said, I'm very atheist. He's like, I I do not go to church, I do not believe in God. He said, But in my practice, one of the first things I do when I have a clinician come in, somebody who wants to see me, the first thing I ask is, Do you have a church home? And if they do not, he said, I will even will even bring up like this is the this is what these things do when it comes to mental health. He says, I don't believe the stories, I don't believe the resurrection. He's like, I I can't, my mind cannot wrap myself around the truth of Christianity, but he says the good of what it does. He says, even in my practice, I will bring up the importance of things like that for people that struggle. He said, now for me, I guess he didn't struggle, I don't know. But he says that he will even use that because if you look at the data of of um Well, we see in our drug court right here in Lambert. Absolutely. The data is overwhelming that when people are struggling, when people have pain, when people don't know how to turn away, that even non Christian professionals are saying, Yes, there Is a role that religion plays for them.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so that I don't want to get into another conversation here and uh chase a squirrel, but I can't help but just ask then so when he recommends that for people, what in the world does he think it is that fixes it for these people? Is it just some mental uh what do they call those pills that are that you take placebo kind of thing that in their mind they just like, oh, this has gotta work because I'm asking God, even though they think he thinks God is dealing.

SPEAKER_02

So not again, not to go into a psychoanalytic thing, but even I mean, Sigmund Freud was not a Christian. Jung, Carl Jung was not a Christian. There's a lot of these big names, but even Sigmund Freud um was a proponent of the idea that every human has this God-shaped hole in their heart that we put stuff in. And so Freud didn't believe in God, but he said that we all need something in that heart to be able to fill that.

SPEAKER_01

And his answer was cocaine.

SPEAKER_02

His answer, well, and diamorphine heroin. I mean, yeah, he believed a lot better. And Freud was brilliant in some ways and very, very lost in other ways. But the idea being is that even in the world of psychology, where many psychologists are not Christians, right? They're not there to give Christian counseling, but they will say, if I've got an addict who comes into my office and he has nowhere to turn, I understand the power that religion or God or the idea of God can might have.

SPEAKER_01

But then when it works, there has to be a point where I give this advice every time and it works every time. I wonder if there's something behind that.

SPEAKER_02

And he may argue that the human psyche, especially when it's at it, it's kind of like the argument there's no atheists and foxholes, right? Like in war, everyone's a Christian. Everyone believes in something. When you're the when you're on the plane and the plane's going down, you're praying to something, you're praying to something. And I think that that's kind of the psych the psychological argument, is that these people are basically in their addiction, in their sin, they are basically on that plane going down. And his response is, hey, have you considered something beyond yourself? Which, of course, we would say is the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ. That's that's where we get our belief. So clearly still fascinating. Clearly, to the whole point of that being, though, is that clearly it is possible to the point that we even see people far outside the church seeing, yes, it's possible. In fact, not only is it possible, it's probably the best solution for you to turn away from that branch that you can't seem to turn away from.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. But the treatment court here in our own town has one testimony after another.

SPEAKER_03

I think it's because it's I people have a hard time because it's uncomfortable. Which what do you mean? I think they have a hard time leaving the flesh for the spirit because it's uncomfortable. It's all you know. And yeah, it's all you know when it's comfortable. Yeah, I think it's like why is it so hard to distinguish? Well, if you take a 10,000 foot view, it would be easy to distinguish what is right and wrong.

SPEAKER_02

I think Stefan Oliver, I think he said the first time he used meth he was either 13 or 14 years old. It is all he knew.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And so, like, when that's all you know, and that's your life, that's comfortable. Even though the decision might seem obvious, to you it's not because you're like, I know like how that makes me feel. I know, like, how that what this does for me. I don't know that. Like, I I know that probably seems right, and if again, if you're 10,000 foot view, the bacon's obviously gonna look better than the branch. But in the moment, that branch is comfortable. Like it is provided so much fun, enjoyment, fulfillment. Yes, it may go away, but I'll find another one. Like, and so I think it's a comfort thing, and we have a bunch of Christians that are unwilling to get uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I heard I heard a pastor once say, uh, Satan's gonna do all he can to make you uncomfortable. And I thought that's the furthest thing from the truth. Satan wants me as comfortable as possible. He wants you comfortable because when you're comfortable, you you're you're you're not looking in your peripheral, you're not seeing what's actually coming um from the other side. So, no, he wants you to be comfortable in that.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Well, you used an illustration on Sunday. I I know we get we're running out of time, but I I want to touch on it real quick. Okay. Uh talk us through that illustration um and let's go a little bit deeper into it. You gotta tell me what the illustration is. I was gonna say you said that you wanted to. Okay, the house, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so the illustration was um the illustration being is um because this one kind of brings us home. Yeah. Paul Paul Paul says, you know, you when you are in Christ, when you are a Christian, as we would use today, that it's not just it's not just following Christian beliefs, it's not just believing Jesus was a good moral teacher, but that when you are in Christ, that you will have the Holy Spirit living inside of you, that you will be occupied by the living God that is his spirit. And so the analogy I gave is when you have a next door neighbor that moves in, and regardless of the traffic, regardless of the grasping mode, but just basing off of the inside of the home, I asked the congregation, would you be able to tell pretty quickly that that house is occupied? And of course they all nod their head yes. Lights go on, lights go off, doors open up, you see movement, there's activity. We should be the same way. Our home, our body, our temple, um, is now occupied, and it should be obvious to people around us that our body is occupied by the living Holy Spirit. Um, this was like the one point that we probably could have used a little more expansion, but um was an easy plug to say tune in to the podcast. Um so before I give my brief explanation, what do you guys think about that?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I I very much agree. And again, that's what how he kind of closes chapter eight is through that, and what you're talking about is like, hey, if you are a follower of Christ, there's gonna be visible things that people are gonna notice. And I think that's why my mind immediately went to Jesus whenever you were talking about on Sunday was when he says, You will know them by their fruits. Yeah, you will know my children by their fruits, and that's what he he talks about hey, we are co-heirs, we share an inheritance, therefore you should have the same fruit that I'm I'm producing as well, whenever you are a follower of me as well. I thought it was a great illustration to bring up the point.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean it's kind of interesting because our the house we moved into when we moved back in 2020 was kind of a is a prime example of uh your analogy because this house had been a rental for several years, tucked into a very nice neighborhood in this town. So it didn't really fit the neighborhood. But then yet it was a rental and it was not taken care of, it was run down, but then uh somebody was it's time to let it go, or they they put it up for auction, somebody purchased it and then they renovated it, and we were able to get with the person in the midst of the renovation and work with them and come to an agreement and we bought the house. Well, this let go poor rental, which is still a cute house, or it had the potential to be, there was a dramatic change in how the house all of a sudden looked, and then all of a sudden we're putting in landscaping and flowers are outside. It's now been it's looking way nicer. Um and it was funny because neighbors are like, hey, we really like what you've done here. There's some change going on over here. There's change that's happened, and people noticed it and they liked it. They saw the new house and what the place turned into being. And I remember walking by this house because we used to live in the neighborhood prior to moving, and we'd walk by the house and we're like, man, I wonder how because that'd be it, it's got so much potential. Yeah, it's got this, it's got the great look, it's got it, it's a cute place. It's not too big, it's not too small, it's almost kind of perfect. I wonder what it looks like on the inside. And then now that it's been redone, it's just like that's a cute place. It's perfect, and it fits now in the neighborhood, or at least it's not the same size or anything like that at other houses, but it now looks nice. Yeah, and you can see the the beauty of it now, now that it's fixed up, you got flowers outside, you got the flag hanging, you know, there's traffic coming in.

SPEAKER_02

You just see the transformation. And and that's why I would argue going back to the analogy, because you're absolutely correct, is the sometimes the most impactful way to share the gospel. It's not just the Bible thumping, it's not just the verse reciting, it's showing occupancy. That would be the answer. That hey, there's occupancy, and here's the thing that should be enticing to other people. Where, and this is what I would be tell students all the time you really you should be making other people jealous. You should be making your friends jealous that are doing all this stuff, but then they look at you, and in all actuality, they're thinking, I wish I could be more like them. Like that's actually what I want. How do you do that? You reveal, hey, I'm just a shell, I'm just a vessel. What is truly controlling me is something that you can have as well, which is the living God.

SPEAKER_03

The term that uh came to mind whenever you're sharing the analogy was consistency.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Because if you just they just saw one person walk in, they're like, Oh, is that a realtor or whatever, but then they're gone and then the lights are off for weeks at a time. Consistency. Yeah, and that's like if you want to show that there's different be consistent, be consistent when you read your Bible, be consistent how you pray, be consistent in the decisions you're making. And I'd think the most powerful time I gotta share the gospel with somebody wasn't me going to them, knocking on the door and saying, Hey, let me let me share the good news with you, is when in college when they came to me and said, Hey, I've been watching. Yeah, you why why don't you drink? Why why why don't you why don't you cuss? Like why you you don't do these things and you've said no over and over and over again. Why? Yeah, and so that they could it was they could tell. And so, but it was consistency in saying that over and over and doing those things over and over again. So I would say, what what habits do you need to put in your place life to be consistent and living in the spirit? Because right now you've created the habit and the consistency of living in the flesh. So let's create new habits of living consistently in the spirit, and what that's gonna show is that pe the Lord is living inside of here, and it's gonna be more consistent to other people in your life as well.

SPEAKER_01

Well, what you're describing is Jaden, I'm gonna give you credit because you're the one that said it and reminded me of this quote that nobody's for sure who exactly says it, but share the gospel as often as possible and sometimes use words. That's right. It's all about how you act and how you present yourself and the things you do, very little about what you said. That's right. And that is the prime example of it was by your actions and how you chose to live and your character that spoke volumes to people, and they wanted to find out more and why.

SPEAKER_02

And I and what I find is you know, when we see people in our church that are that are clearly occupied, I think of like a Jim Terry. And you find those people, and of course, you know, we write them cards, we do all we can to just thank them nonstop. But with some of those people, I realize the more I thank them, the more they tell me, Why are you thanking me? This is just I I can't it like with Jim, it's like I'm not forcing myself to do these things. Yeah, this it is just second nature because that occupancy has been so consistent, it no longer becomes I've got to take a shower, I've got to brush my teeth. Yeah, it just becomes who they are. And so to Jim, I think it's almost weird like You're complimenting your kid for brushing his teeth.

SPEAKER_03

Why are you thinking? What do you mean? I'm supposed to be. But like that, but going back to it and what you're hitting at, the only way I was able to be consistent wasn't because of Luke. Yeah, because you best believe, did Luke want to do this? Did Luke want to say this? For sure, it's only because of the spirit, like in relying on that and the obligation that he had set before. And even in the only way.

SPEAKER_01

There were probably times for you like, oh Holy Spirit, you gotta help me out here. I want to say yes, but you gotta help me say no. How many times I had to just leave. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Right? Like I I'd just go and sit in my dorm, right? But it's only I was only able to do that because of the Holy Spirit. And that's what I would say is like, and the same thing. If you were like, man, I don't think I can do that, you're right. You're right. You can't. But start moving in the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, and that's and that not that it's neither here nor there, but kind of I always say the stupid one of the dumbest things Christians can say is God will never give you more than you can handle. God will give you more than you can handle all the time. Why? Because then you become dependent on him.

SPEAKER_03

And so then you actually have to have faith. If you never gave you more than you can handle, you would never have faith.

SPEAKER_02

If you truly want to show people your occupancy, then be dependent. It is dependency on him. And I promise you, once you find that dependency, once he becomes your your stretcher, um, then he's not gonna let you down. He will not let you down in that case. So hopefully there's some application there for folks. Plenty of applications.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, great illustrations, man. I know. Yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_02

Great job. I'm off next Sunday, so I had to use all my good ones up.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, well, if you have any extra, show and throw them my way for this week. Okay. Excited.

SPEAKER_01

I know a pastor, he told me this story when uh Yeah. Just don't say his name.

SPEAKER_02

That's how most that's how most pastor illustrations. I heard a pastor say once because they're stealing what they heard from another pastor. Which is about the Bible, which is great. Yeah, no, I mean, in the end, the the Bible's the original illustration that we should be doing.

SPEAKER_03

I should just use all the illustrations you use this week, next week, and see if people notice. They probably won't. That's the same. Do you hear that illustration Luke used about his dog? It was Craig.

SPEAKER_02

The exact same thing. Identical. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I had a dog named Monkey.

SPEAKER_01

Well, so you could what's your dog's name? Wally. Wally. Walter. Brings he finds a carcass bone. So you just change it very slightly. Yeah, just slightly different, and then you try to entice him with, I don't know, a jerky treat uh or uh another one of those other juicy bones that you can buy at the store that looks like a carcass bone, but it's not.

SPEAKER_02

The dog's name was not monkey. It was not a baggage strip, it was not a branch. You were completely completely different analogy. Calm down. Yeah. Very good.

SPEAKER_01

But you live out in the country where he could find some, you know, dead skunk. You know my dog's pretty special. He's not driving.

SPEAKER_02

Old Walter. Well, guys, this has been fun. It's been a good thing.

SPEAKER_03

Here we go. Speaking of special, Roger, you want to close this out?

SPEAKER_02

All right, yep. So uh be there Sunday, Romans 8, because we're not done with Romans 8. That's right, man. We've got part two of Romans 8. So you won't want to miss that Sunday morning. Until then, as always.

SPEAKER_01

Well, hey, real quick plug, you're probably listening to this on a Wednesday. Come to the church because we're getting ready to go hit the streets.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'm gonna go take it to the streets.

SPEAKER_02

Wednesday. What time can they be here, Jordan?

SPEAKER_01

Three o'clock.

SPEAKER_02

3 p.m. Where can they meet?

SPEAKER_01

Uh Fellowship Hall. Oh, I'm sorry. Cafeteria. Cafeteria.

SPEAKER_02

If you don't show up to the front office, one of our lovely secretaries will guide you to where you need to be.

SPEAKER_03

And then we also got KidsCon this weekend. So if you want to start living in the spirit, show up on Friday, start serving at KidsCon and love on these kids on Friday and Saturday. All right.

SPEAKER_02

There's our good plugs. All right. Well, if if we don't see you before Sunday, we cannot wait to see you Sunday. And then of course we will see you next week as always for Make Heaven Crowded.