The Six Pillars: How Great Properties Are Created

What does it really take to turn an idea into a place people love to live in?

In this episode of MERED Talks, Harley Jenner speaks with Natalia Ermolenko, Chief Product Officer at MERED, about real estate's most misunderstood role: the Product Manager.

Natalia reveals how this role emerged to bridge the gap between sales dreams, design ambitions, and construction realities. This conversation explores how the Product Manager connects vision with reality, ensuring that what is promised is exactly what people need and experience when they walk through the door.

🎧 Hit play to discover:

• Why real estate needs a “product” mindset, and what was missing before

• The “three pedals of a developer” and why synergy matters

• How developers balance design, construction, and market demand

• The six pillars of creating a great real estate product

• How the right questions and small decisions shape the living experience

🎥 Listen to the full episode to see why the best developments need someone who cares less about what's behind the wall and more about how you'll actually live.

#MEREDTalks #MERED #RealEstatePodcast #DubaiPodcast #ProductManagement #LuxuryRealEstate #PropertyDevelopment #DubaiRealEstate

MERED website: https://mered.ae
MERED on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mered.ae/
MERED on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mered-ae/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What exactly is a product manager in real estate?

SPEAKER_00 0:03

It's like a chimera, you know. Yeah. With many faces to see overall picture and manage all changes and thinking about end users. What does your role look like in the day-to-day? Maybe it's too much, but uh it looks like a carbon drama triangle. We're working on a field, we're talking with the designers, we're talking with the builders, trying to let them understand the overall idea of our project together with the CEO and other departments. We're trying to define the best future for us.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Obviously, one of your main goals is to keep the potential clients happy with the product.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

So I name it six pillars of the good product. We have to understand what's located around us. We don't want to overflow the market with the same product with other people doing.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

What do you feel makes a great product manager and what do you feel are the key qualities? Welcome back to the Merit Talks Podcast. I'm your host, Harley Jenner, and in every episode we go beyond property to explore how great people and bold ideas design the way we live, work, and connect. Today I'm joined by Natalia Amelenko, Merit's chief product officer. Having an academic background in architecture, she joined Merit Group of Companies in 2013. She plays a central role in turning bold ideas into high-performing real estate products that align with Merit's vision and evolving market needs. Natalia is passionate about transforming land plots into vibrant communities that deliver a fulfilling living experience to people while generating profit for the company. Natalia, thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Thank you, Harleid, for having me here.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

So if we look at property development as a product, I'd like to learn more about how we start and how it's created, as well as how we make it valuable for people, whilst at the same time being successful in the market. So I'd like to start at the beginning. How and why did your role emerge?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Actually, when I started, there is no such thing as a product. Okay. There is only like architects, engineers, uh manager, I don't know, finance marketing, and etc. And the product was uh divided between uh many different departments. So the marketing and sales department, they usually came up with the idea, okay, we will do residential project, and the unit mix will be like this. Okay. Um, other companies they have product in uh project management or design management. That means they're just checking documentation and uh you know checking the renderings and the drawings together to understand is it what we will receive. The other things that the projects usually have have tend to be changed somehow or for some reasons, maybe optimizations, maybe market change, maybe some materials must be changed, and somebody has to uh evaluate all these changes. Okay, but basically, um developer has sales department, but they can evaluate only layouts and renderers, renders. Um, project department they can evaluate like construction, budgets, and etc. But but usually to see overall picture and manage all changes and thinking about end users was the gap, and nobody did this. So at this sweet blind spot, the profession of uh product manager was created to be sure that the final product will match the initial idea and all changes will be evaluated uh in terms of our profit or client's profit.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

So your role is important from the beginning, the duration, all the way to the end of the project. Okay, how does the product development process function now? Um, obviously, with the existence of a new product department?

SPEAKER_00 4:07

So now we have a three panels of a developer. So first is the sales and marketing, it's marketing feedback and sales volumes and sales goals. The project management is the construction, budget, um, production, timelines, and etc. And product department, the client representative defines what needs to be built. So let me explain a little bit more about all these three departments. So the SEO is a center, maybe it's too much, but uh it looks like a carpentrama triangle. It's always a dynamic between all these three departments, but because they're trying to, you know, push on their side a little bit more than the others. But um, the true is in between is to have three pillars for the CEO. That means that uh none of these departments are taking more role, because if design or project department taking more role, that means that all it will be always on budget and on time, yeah, but maybe not we what we want. True. Um if marketing and sales taking the main role, that means that that can be some extraordinary ideas, let's say, but maybe it can be build, you know, or it doesn't that does not exist. So the the product, the emerging, like okay, like unbelievable ideas, um, budget and execution together to be sure that this is really into the reality people dream about. We're sure that they dream about not only ourselves dream about it. Uh, we're sure that that can be built. So this budget, less budget, or little over this budget. Okay, it's always um tough question. Um, so and and CEO, he is you know pushing these buttons and saying, okay, for this project, I want a little bit more here, yeah, or I want a little bit more here. So this is the game, and the key success for the company is if all the three departments working together closely and synchronize their goals, okay, but also a good um uh fighting is always good, you know, because that's how we defining the good product, that's how we defining the good sales price, that's how we're defining the the best budget for that product, and everything in between, you know, it's always always complicated as well as it might be complicated in a big family with different opinions, and you're the one in the middle trying to manage all of this fighting and yeah, yeah, yeah, and trying to get some degree college courses, you know, understand all these dynamics.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

It helps, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Trying to be good.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

If we were to define the role based on what you've just said, um, what exactly is a product manager in real estate? And what are the key differences with other roles, say, with architecture or design?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

That's a really good question because there are still a lot of misunderstanding or misaligning because of the initial profession came from you know checking the commentation between all these different designs and projects and etc. Most of the people who work in the product, they're architects, like former architects, as I am I. So that's why maybe people think or the project management thinks that they have to check all norms, all designs, all technical requirements, etc. But not for sure. We're working with the documentation, but we're not the technicians, we're not not the precise, you know, the old notes and constructions elements people who understand. Also, product manager working with the budget, but he is not a project manager. Okay, he he's he is aligned with the budget, he is aligned with the timeline, he's aligned with the overall design structure, but he's he he's not you know um pushing the overall project with all sub-consultants, sub-sub people, maybe uh government departments, and etc. He is just responsible for really little part uh of the overall project. Uh and also maybe somebody thinks we are just marketing people for sure. We're working with the data, we analyze the market, but we are not working from the office. We're working on a field, we're talking with the designers, we're talking with the builders, builders, trying to let them understand the overall idea of our project and trying to you know to keep things together, uh not to miss small parts, which is really important on this long way. So there are really many different aspects to your role then. Yes, and uh it's like a chimera, you know. Yes, with many faces, and because of this profession is really knee, uh the boundaries are not defined yet, you know, like no strict boundaries. That's why uh these people they're absorbing a lot from the different parties and trying to fulfill the gaps in between. And maybe in five years we will have, like, you know, the structured and total understanding, not only from the product part, but also from the project, from the sales and marketing part, and other departments that usually developers have. Product managers mostly focusing on uh our clients and their needs. So we are the people who asking more than one 100 uh questions to all people around us, to the designers, to the builders, to ourselves, to the people in development company, and usually these questions like how our clients will enter to the building, what they will see in our lobby, how the lobby looks like, who will greet them in the lobby, what kind of services will they receive in our building, how they will spend the evening with the family in our building, what kind of uh engineering systems must be upgraded for better climate, and etc. and etc. And all these things then translates to the technical documentation, and we must be sure that all these goals are achieved in our building and design.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Okay. So, as you mentioned, your your role is to keep many different people happy. So the merit as a developer, the investors, people in the market, and ultimately the end users. But what does your role look like in the day-to-day?

SPEAKER_00 10:57

So I name it uh six pillars of the good product. So, first of all, is the marketing. We have to understand what's located around us, what do other developers? We don't want to repeat mistakes and we don't want to overflow the market with the same product what other people doing. Yeah, and for sure we we absorbing the trends because you know we doing projects like five years maybe, because from the really beginning, then you're searching the plot till the really end, then you give the last key to the last person in our building, it's all around four to five years. So we really have to predict our future, and today we have to put something that will be valuable for our customers in five years. The second pillar is a lifestyle, so the human experience is a center core of our development. People must live their best life in our building, so we must um understand all these small things that will please our customers and how they will fulfill their day-day in our building. So this is a core. Sure, we have some developers' values that we put in our projects. Um, every project has something that we are as a developer want to achieve this project. And there are some values that can be changed uh during the whole process or from project to project. First is the quality. We think that people always appreciate the quality, then uh ergonomics and consistency and logical of our building. We don't want to people be missed somewhere or don't know where to go or they don't understand how to open the door. So kind of this is the basic. And technology and uh the future thinking, we always want to have something innovative in our building, something that will define the future. So the fourth pillar is the economics for sure. Uh, the budget of our building, the sales volumes, the sales price. As I said before, we have a lifestyle. Yes, we we have market research, and also we have developer goals. Everything costs money, and uh, we must understand how much we can spend and how much we can receive. Okay, so everything in line, if everything in line together, that works. Then start design and architecture. This is our priority. We always want to have the best architects, the best design, the the beautiful buildings, which is looks nothing like you can find if anywhere else. And the last one is a construction. So, as I said, the quality it's there. And for sure, we want to be on time to our clients. So the sixth pillar is a construction, turning vision into reality that was initially planned and actually built.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Okay, and how do you and your department interact with the architecture and design teams to achieve your goals?

SPEAKER_00 14:16

So, first we're creating a brief. Okay. Uh that brief consists from um developers' vision, developers' ambitions, and uh then it translates to some it's have some technical requirements also, because we have some experience on that. Yes. Uh also it has some uh it has ideas about unit mix and our target audience, okay. But sure we we we're doing that for somebody. And um then we're choosing our creative team. Um we we're doing it very wisely because they are our partners, and they are our partners for five, four years, yeah. Maybe three years. So during this process of choosing architects and designers, we we we're looking for the people who have their own way to to design, their own design approach. Um, we're looking for companies who have you know long-term relationships with the other companies, okay so we can trust them. But sometimes we wanted to choose some somebody new who never did something because we find something special in their work. And for sure, in our experience, we can help these people to execute good projects.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

And then when you find an architect or design team that's also very good, it's better for you because then you can use them for the next project as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Yes, it's good to you to use the same team or same architects because we already aligned on our values, yes, and they already know how we like things to to go. And uh our workflow, usually based on workshops. Okay. So what does it mean? That uh the client and all uh people who decision makers, they're sitting on one table with an architect, and we negotiate and discussing discussing our project and um taking in consideration something new or something which is which is uh uh pushing our boundaries from the initial brief, for example. And in this discussion, we receiving like the best products ever.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Yeah, especially when many people are based in different countries, it's great to have everyone together to align on things that isn't possible by email sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yes, that that's true, and also people from different countries they have different culture level, let's say, and uh if we work with somebody who from Switzerland, they have different approach. If we work with somebody from uh I don't know, USA, they have different approach, and we merging all these different approaches together, and this is the cool part, actually, because I have my vision, the other guys have different vision, and we have to negotiate what how to proceed actually with the project. Uh sometimes uh we agree, sometimes we don't agree, sometimes we postpone taking decisions on the tough parts, but uh at the end, uh all topics must be closed, and um we have a rule you say now or say never. So on workshops, this is a rule. If if this is the point of taking decision, you say now or silent forever.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

That's great, otherwise, it can take so long to close certain topics, can't it?

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Obviously, one of your main goals is to keep the potential clients happy with the product. Can you share a few examples of how you changed the plan or worked with different departments to change their ideas to benefit um the future residents of the building?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Okay. Um, first of all, I must say that actually the product cares more about things that our customers will see or feel. Okay. This is like the main pillar. Um that means that everything which is located behind the wall or inside the wall, I'm not really caring about. For sure, there'll be some certificates about ecological things and etc. But but I'm caring more about which is uh located around people. Okay. And uh funny example, um, landscaping. You know, we everybody wants to live in large gardens with the huge trees, with some flowers, bees, you know, you're sitting on a bench, a beautiful bench. And we we're doing all these things during the concept stage and uh during the brief, actually. Okay, and then uh after every stage, uh the project department they have to check the the budget of the project and we start and they starting checking. And um, example, they came to me and said, Okay, we have over budget on the landscaping, we have to to put other trees, smaller trees or other uh bushes. Okay, and uh I I asked them, guys, did you check which is what is located uh below the the paving, you know, all these layers of things uh which is below. They said, no, we just have like you know, costs per cubic meter, and this is it. Said no, please check. Uh because sometimes, from my experience, there are some extra costs uh put it to that things which is nobody will see, but uh you want me to cut trees or to change them. And after these negotiations, they said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have our budget there, and we we can keep your trees. Okay, so when you dive deeply into details and you and if then you really understand how how everything you know how everything connected, how everything uh related to the other things, you can um drive this car with uh with open uh light and uh clear window. The the other pro the other example is then we have a territory and that was a former uh factory, and that factory was producing the metals, and our architects they came with an idea to create uh urban blocks with three different metal colors, and they were so fascinating with that idea, so they proposed us to have this metal on the boulevard as well, as a metal river or something. And uh, when we were at the presentation, we were like, you know, maybe it's too much, said to each other, like on the client side, and then you have to translate to our you know fascinated architects who came with the beautiful idea that their ideas are actually not so good because we already have a lot of metals here, guys. We don't need any more because you you will start missing the main idea because it's too much, it's too many, it's too blinky, and nobody will appreciate it's not the normal value. attracts more heat as well in the yeah that's a that's a lot of not now your product yeah so the uh the other part here is to translate to architect not to to cut the uh there's um freedom to to invent something that we don't need this stuff guys we want to put money to something else which is which is will be really valuable for our customers maybe more trees instead of this uh metal river uh yes yes and moving to the marketing side of your role um what trends are you seeing in the UAE luxury real estate space and are you noticing a difference between what people expect in Dubai compared to what people expect in Abu Dabi I think that people mostly the same everywhere okay um what I see now as a trend the people want to live longer and better this is the the main point I see how wellness industry now becoming bigger and uh how how many things you can do with your body actually to uh to achieve your goals and also I see how um in buildings actually at homes people trying to install some you know infrared sounders cameras you know blankets extra air conditioning extra purifying etc because everybody thinks how I will live next 10 years will I live better or not so the real luxury is to have this ability to think about your health to think about your family to to have this strong um relationships uh with your body to be friend to your body and have so many instruments to to help yourself yeah this is a real trend and that's very aligned with Riviera residences in Abu Dhabi with the variety of amenities that you've created in that project as well yes we have pool we have greenery we have sauna we have place where people can gather together because the other trend people want to to have somebody uh nearby them yes this is like nobody wants to be alone yeah for sure some people want but most of the people they want to be in group of people the same hobbies and what we can do is to provide the places where they actually can do something. So the variety of human experiences are unpredictable but we're trying our best to predict as much as possible.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Great and I feel like that's very relevant here in this country especially that there are so many expats and people who move away from their families so the fact that you've created all these spaces for people to be with friends or family when they visit it really makes a difference. How is the product manager's performance actually measured?

SPEAKER_00 25:11

So the distinctive feature of the product is that it's not uh started then the design starts and it's not ended when the last key given to the client okay it's really before and really after the moment it's really five years of the of the project so uh for example if um sales keys is you know the volume which was sold it can be measured but uh in product the measuring is the premium to the market for example okay do we sell up to the market for 10% for 5% for whatever percent is it related to quality or to the product of our building this is you know the the key uh question every time maybe sales do better their job but maybe our product is better than the others which is located in the same location I prefer the second one actually then the other thing is um is retention retention is like we already have one client and he bought something in our project will he return to us to buy another apartment in another project how much money he will spend on us during the whole lifetime maybe he will buy something on third project on fourth project that means that our brand as a developer is is good for him he's loyal for us and it also means that we fit the market and most interesting part for me is after handover and then actually our buyers will start to live in our building we doing the surveys about the satisfaction of of our building and services that we providing okay we because we're learning on our buildings we're learning from our people and we want to be better with every project okay and what do you feel makes a great product manager and what do you feel are the key qualities we already understand that it's a kind of psychology work it's a lot of technical work it's a lot of analyzing work it's related to aesthetics um it's related to speak to many people and deal with some things around the project that means that the good product manager is a good negotiation okay um he he can analyze a lot and think wisely because he has to compare budget values for developer values for customers and taking decisions based on all this uh beautiful bouquet of questions based on my experience helps a lot to travel a lot to speak to a lot of different people to understand different different cultures to receive a lot of experience because we're trying to to create something new and sometimes it's required to combine something from different industries I I don't know some technology to some aesthetics okay and uh I can find something which is really related to technology I can find something which is really related to aesthetics but if I can't experience them I can't merge them so you have to travel speak and experience a lot that's a very nice reason to travel and experience then for sure you you you have soft skills and hard skills that means that that means that you have to be technically educated you must understand architecture design technology yeah uh design process how budget creating what what is um uh pushing the budget up what you can do to push down yeah you must understand you know the basics how sales do do their job how uh marketing do their job how you you know combine things together this is the hard skills no matter how much you travel if you don't know the base you don't receive some good work yeah to be a professional I think it it's it's a base for every profession and is it important for you that um people in your department are also trained as architects that's uh it's not really important but it's important I mean to have the understanding yeah it's it's like uh you know you you have a good cake right yeah it's beautiful but you you have a cherry on top so to be an architect isn't cherry on top because you because you're mostly speaking with architects and designers and you understand how they think you can translate the you know very boring tasks sometimes to something interesting to them because you know how to explain it to them and sometimes you can check something um in documentation and you can check aesthetic or some some things but this is like you know really tiny part of your job it's not uh necessary to be an architect I know people who was um educated uh on finance but they're really good they just love architecture and design okay and they have a very high level of aesthetic um understanding let's say yeah and they can perform their job okay and obviously you trained as an architect how did you end up in product um I studied a lot I studied like 10 or 12 years and I worked as an architect only one year. Okay actually uh my first job in development company and I'm still here so everything what I know I learned from our company that's I started from um first phase of development is then you have to calculate the parameters of the building and you have to understand is it fits to this land plot or not okay so this is really first part and then I started to to look into other projects which is already been built or on construction and just asking the questions like can I change this uh this door to other because it's ugly can we move this tree to that part would be that will be better can we arrange the playground but not with this design but other design and other functions okay and one by one one by one it just happened it's just eventually and just dig into the to the projects and starting all these things and now um we do much more than just checking and moving trees we you know visionaires together with the CEO and other departments we trying to define the future the best future for us can you tell me the difference between your first project compared to the projects you're working on now first one I will tell you about not really really first project but the first project that where I define myself as a product okay uh that was a huge project like 25 hectares and and we started um with massing and everything and I understand that architects can't do what I wanted them to do. Yeah or we'll take years yeah so there was a lot of ideas about mass things okay but uh we came with the idea no we want it to be like this we want to to do like this we we want that way and we just gave them these ideas and actually drawings uh by hand by the way okay and they like okay we now we understand yeah we see why you didn't like the previous ones okay you explained that for us and then I started to to provide them more and more um say ideas and uh answers to their questions and etc and uh after all when the whole uh area was built I was standing there it's like oh my god there was just 25 hectares of nothing like some factory and now I see like plenty of buildings the school the boulevard the people and uh I heard from our uh facility management company that there's some problems somewhere okay so no way I was thinking about that problem at that point that that's the that's the interesting part yeah the the last project for example Riviera is something different because it's kind of dense project we have uh parking we have residential part we have this amenity level yeah and uh working together with the Herzig de Miron to to see how they're thinking about human experience uh about architecture about all these amenities and how they pushing the boundaries because they're not satisfied with some things yeah we we satisfied but they're not usually you overwise yes all the way around um and uh now the role a little bit changed so it's more about as I said before about the future about the what people will receive in five years and it's such a tiny this such tiny area and how this area will be transformed with our building yeah so both parts are interesting actually definitely well thank you so much for the conversation today I feel like I've definitely learned a lot more about your role and how unique it is and yet so important for many different parties involved particularly the end user um so I would like to ask a few questions that I ask all of our guests what does luxury mean to you in the real estate or in or just either of us so the the luxury is the health thing so to to feel yourself good to feel yourself energized to be filled with ideas to have somebody around to to have ability to share your dreams and the ideas with somebody so mental and uh and body health together let's say so this is the truth actually great and what matters most to you when choosing a property let's see quality quality of this building but I can't predict uh and on the sales point how how it will be so the brand of developer um okay costs a lot on this decision so I can go to his other buildings and to see his approach yeah thank you very much for being here today