MERED Talks Podcast
Not about selling property. About shaping how we live.
The MERED Talks podcast is a discussion club for open, honest conversations on how real estate development and people behind shape our daily lives, our wellbeing, and even our future.
MERED Talks Podcast
Pininfarina: This Building Was Designed Like a Ferrari
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What makes Italian design instantly recognisable and instantly trusted?
In this episode of MERED Talks, our host Harley Jenner is joined by Michael Belton, MERED's CEO, alongside Giovanni de Niederhäusern and Chiara Gibertini from Pininfarina to explore a 95-year design heritage evolving from Ferrari to residential towers.
This conversation goes beyond aesthetics, revealing Pininfarina’s engineering-driven approach, how quality in Italy is embedded in both culture and regulation, and the difference between Italian design as a label and as a holistic approach.
🎧 Hit play to discover:
• Why Pininfarina's motto is "beauty + technology = impact"
• The historical meeting between Battista Pininfarina and Enzo Ferrari
• What truly defines timeless Italian design beyond trends and luxury
• What "quiet luxury" means in real estate
• What separates authentic branded residences from marketing exercises
🎥 Listen to the full episode to understand why some designs make you feel like you never want to leave.
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When people hear the name Peninferina, they often think of Italy and iconic cars. But Pininfarina is so much more than an automotive legend.
SPEAKER_031951. Batista Pininfarina met in Soferrari. They fell in love from a professional point of view and they started designing together the most beautiful cars we all know. Over a hundred Ferraris.
SPEAKER_01Uh whenever you get into a Pinanfarina Ferrari, you understand that this is something unique and something special.
SPEAKER_03We entered into uh architecture. That was about 15 years ago.
SPEAKER_02Beauty plus technology equals impact.
SPEAKER_01It was not an architectural concept, it was really the soul of the project.
SPEAKER_00Italian design is often used as a label. But what does that really mean?
SPEAKER_03A new sense of luxury, you know, that it doesn't scream, doesn't shout, that is not flashy.
SPEAKER_02When you're entering in a room, you feel that uh you want to stay there, you just don't want to walk away.
SPEAKER_03When we're showing the show flat, their eyes just open because they see the curves and the element that differentiates uh projects and developers nowadays to creativity.
SPEAKER_00Branded residences are everywhere nowadays. What separates a meaningful branded project from the rest? Welcome back to the MeritTalks Podcast. I'm your host, Harley Jenner, and in every episode we go beyond property to explore how great people and bold ideas design the way we live, work, and connect. Today I'm joined by three great people. The first to join us is Michael Belton. For those of you who have not watched or listened to our podcast before, Michael has over 30 years of experience in global real estate development. He has managed over $5 billion worth of assets across the US, Europe, and the Middle East. And today at Merid, he's driving the company's expansion across the UAE and the wider GCC. Our next guests today are from Peninfrina. This is a very special podcast as Merid's flagship project, its iconic residence is designed by Peninfrina. So today we're joined by Giovanni de Niederhausen and Yara Ghapatini. Giovanni is the Senior Vice President of Architecture and Product Design at Peninfrina. He leads the global architectural and design innovation across disciplines. His background blends design, technology, and strategic thinking, and he plays a key role in shaping how Peninfarina translates its engineering-driven DNA into architecture and product design worldwide. And Kiara is the business strategy and innovation manager. She's now based in Dubai, and we'll be seeing a lot more of her here in the office now. And she trained as an architect and brings extensive experience in developing and managing complex multidisciplinary projects. At Pen and Farina, she focuses on strategy, innovation, and partnerships, helping translate design vision into commercially and culturally relevant projects across global markets.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Harley. And uh hello Michael, and thank you so much for inviting us today.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for being here. When people hear the name Peninfarina, they often think of Italy and iconic cars. But Peninfrina is so much more than an automotive legend, it is a outstanding design philosophy. So in this episode, we will explore what sits behind the brand, not just the style, the thinking, or the emotion, but the unique approach to quality. This will be a conversation about timeless Italian design. For many people, Pininfarina is known for shaping some of the most iconic cars in history. For people who know the name but not the story, where did it all begin?
SPEAKER_03So a little bit of the story about Pininfarina. Pininfarina is a company that was founded uh 95, 96 actually, years ago in Torino, uh 1930, and uh by Battista Pininfarina. And uh they started to design and build uh cars for the royal families over Europe. So it became very successful for uh doing beautiful, beautiful cars. Um, one milestone in the history of Pininfarina is 1951, in which Battista Pininfarina met Enzo Ferrari. They fell in love from a professional point of view and they started designing together the most beautiful cars we all know. Uh actually, as Pininfarina, we have been designing uh over a hundred Ferraris uh over the course of our history. And it was uh about 20 years ago that our uh former president Paolo Pininfarina understood that uh you know the brand uh could be diversified in other disciplines. Okay. And so they started uh first uh in mobility. Uh so uh we uh feel uh now that we uh we are not just a car designer or car manufacturer, we do mobility in general. So mobility strategy, and we design and build any mean of transportation, you name them. So it can be an electric scooter, a ropeway, uh, a boat, uh, and so on and so forth. Then there was uh you know a step ahead in product design. Uh so we have a large division that is into designing mostly furniture design, lifestyle products, uh sports apparel, uh and technology.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03And last but not least, of course, because we are here at Mered, um, we entered into uh architecture. That was about 15 years ago. And over the course of these uh 15 years, the company has uh like uh grown a lot, especially in residential real estate, high-rise, uh high-end, and of course, uh branded. And I'm sure we will talk more about branded real estate over the course of the podcast.
SPEAKER_00Yes, we will. That's a great history. So, Michael, for someone who has worked across global real estate markets, what did the name Pen and Farina mean to you before this collaboration began?
SPEAKER_01I'm a car enthusiast. And when you whenever you get into a Pen and Farina Ferrari, you understand that this is something unique and something special. And I think the DNA of Pen and Farina, it's one where it makes people want to aspire to something. And I think that if you don't own a Ferrari, everybody wants to own a Ferrari. And I think that all of those images and all of those feelings um really, really come through um through Pen and Farina's design. And then being an American, if you ask an American where's your favorite place to travel internationally, you would think they might say maybe England or maybe they would go to South America somewhere. The top three answers are Rome, Milan, and Florence. Italy for Americans, it's it's a place where we're able to kind of absorb the culture. We we like the the family association with Italy. It reminds us of uh having a family meal, it reminds us of having a nice glass of wine, of getting together. And everybody in America has some Italian relatives who when you're around them, you just feel special. So I think if you're able to bring that into a residential building, which we're able to do here with Pen and Farina, it really becomes a soul. So when we partnered with Peninfarina, and we really viewed it as a partnership, it was not an architectural concept, it was really the soul of the project. And we've worked with them over the last what two and a half, almost three years now. And every time we're together, we come up with new ideas, uh new ways to uh either promote Peninfarina or promote merit or to incorporate something in into our building. The latest thing that we're trying to finalize is doing the iconic paddle court, which is designed by Pin and Farina. Okay. And again, oddly enough, it has the same name as our as our as our building, and it just shows kind of the the heritage, the style, the taste that you get from Pin and Farina.
SPEAKER_00Great. So, Chiara, we have touched on the history of Pen and Farina, and it's clear that the company's roots are deeply embedded in automotive engineering. So, when you go from designing cars to designing buildings, what needs to change in your mindset and what stays the same?
SPEAKER_02So I think that's like they are very connected building architecture. Nowadays it's becoming something very um, it's a complex object, uh especially a tall building like yours, the towers. So you have uh nowadays the buildings, uh, the the NEP and all the part of the engineering part costs uh almost the double of uh 10, 20 years ago. So uh you really have to take into consideration since they zero all this all this uh um complexity of engineering of the other disciplines. So uh coming from the car design world is something that makes the things easier for us because especially for the uh design for manufacturing and assembly technology, the FMA, we call it like this, um we are uh lucky because we we can bring all the technologies and all the expertise from uh design and building cars into uh real estate and architecture. So car was since uh in the beginning was the most complex objects that the humanity ever designed, and nowadays are buildings. So uh I think that we are uh a step ahead of all the others from this because it's 95, 96 years that we are doing this. When you're asking what does it change, I don't think nothing because our motto is beauty plus technology equals impact. So and I think that beauty and technology as really are really two words that meant something to mean something to us. Uh beauty because everything that we want to create has to give back beauty to a city, to the people that use the building, uh, to the person that is stepping in a room, the colors, the materials, uh, the protocol of uh well. So the fact that you when you're entering in a room, you feel that uh uh you want to stay there. You just don't want to walk away, and this is very important for someone who is designing a space. Um and so um coming from like collecting all these disciplines together uh and uh having the right uh uh merging of lights, materials, colors gives you the beauty. But then you have to embed all the technology part and you have to take into consideration this from day zero, day minus one, because it's very important nowadays that everything like the quality of the air. Technology is not only the smart house uh when you enter, you light uh you you you you light on your lights and you have everything uh uh connected, it's also the quality, managing the quality of the hair, the temperature, especially here in Dubai. So we have to take care of the technology to reach the beauty to create impacts on the people.
SPEAKER_00So, Michael, from a developer's perspective, how important is it that a design partner focuses on performance and systems and not just aesthetics?
SPEAKER_01Well, I I think the the easy answer to that is that whenever you design a building from the outside in, um, the building may look, may look nice, but it's not comfortable to live in or cannot be comfortable to live in. So whenever you're you're focused on the the inside out, you have to start at the foundation up to the technology to the layouts till you get to to the facade. So I think it's very important um in our collaboration with with Penn and Freedon, and we really view it that way, to look internally and try to figure out what's gonna be the best experience for the people that are gonna be living in there. We don't want people to move into our building after after they've spent their money on it and say, we really should change this, or I wish we would have had that. We don't want them to change anything, not from the the flooring we have to the kitchen we have to the walk-in closets that we have. Um we would like them to move into a building from day one that meets their needs, that starts from um the engineering, it starts from a good appreciation of that, and then it moves its way through the architecture.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So, Giovanni, Italian design is often used as a label. But what does it really mean? And why do people automatically trust something that is Italian designed?
SPEAKER_03Well, this is the question, no, for Italian design, because we hear more and more, especially in the last few years and months, uh, to talk about Italian style, Italian lifestyle. But what does it really mean? I think that there has been uh an evolution in the last few years, especially. So uh up to a few years ago, Italian style was mostly something designed in Italy, maybe something produced in Italy. But I think that uh Italian uh style it has become really a lifestyle then, but nowadays it's even more than that. I just give you an example. No, um, Michael before was talking about tourism in Italy. Tourism accounts just for 4% of the total national GDP. What does it mean? That the idea of Italy, that most of the cases we have, especially through social media, this uh romantic ideal place is actually there, but it's not the actual core of Italy. There is a very important data. Uh, last year Italy overtook Japan, becoming the fourth largest economy for exportation of goods. And uh this means that there is a you know a solid country behind this romantic idea of Portofino.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_03Uh and the real core of Italy is actually in manufacturing, advanced manufacturing and uh engineering and so on and so forth. So I think that Italian style nowadays has to be seen as something more holistic, you know, and it's not just something ideal, but it's something very solid, which is uh especially for design capacity to deliver at the level of quality that the market is expecting.
SPEAKER_00So, Michael, you've lived and worked across many different cultures. How do you personally experience the Italian approach to design and lifestyle? And why do you think it fits so well with residential living?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that we're we're all once again looking for some type of uh aspiration in in our lives. We're all all trying to cope with what's going on with technology. We're trying to figure out how we fit in, and we want some place of uh of home and and comfort. And I think I think that Italy, whenever you whenever you think about it, that's really what it brings it down to. It's it's it's soulfulness, um, it's something that has lasted um for centuries and centuries and and and centuries. We all love learning about Italian history, we all love going to Italy. So I I think that when you're when you're doing a a residential project, it really needs to be the core of uh of of what you're trying to deliver. Because we're we're not building in this project a shopping center or a an office building. We're building a home. It happens to be a 300-meter home, um 300-meter tall home, but it's still someone's home. So if you can have a situation, you can close your eyes and you can imagine coming home after a tough day of work, and you're you open the door, your wife greets you, your children give you a hug, you go, you have a home-cooked meal, your neighbor may come over for a cigar in the in the evening on your terrace. That's what we want to deliver here, and we believe that with Pen and Farina, we're really achieving that.
SPEAKER_02If I may add something about quality, it's uh it's embedded in the timeless design. And I think like being Italian means also know how to craft materials, how to use. In the past centuries, we were uh probably the first one to create and start uh working with the marble, with wood. Quality is something that always comes at the first place for Italians, I guess. And uh I think that nowadays buyers become more uh conscious, more demanding and less forgiving about the quality. You can recognize where the quality is not embedded in the design. And uh quality is not something that you experiment, design is not something that you can experience uh now walking in a showroom, but it's something that arrives uh five years after the endover because this is uh what we do. We choose uh and we design with materials that age carefully and gracefully, and we design uh um lines that are not uh out of uh trends after one year, and this is when when we say timeless is exactly what we are trying to do.
SPEAKER_01You know, we we have many examples of people coming into our show flat and seeing the kit the connections of the different materials, the stone on the wood to the to the uh to the metal. And those are our buyers because they come in and they see this very complicated um connection of materials and realize that someone really put some thought behind that. Um, we have a very famous footballer who's bought a couple units with their at Iconic, and when he saw the green marble, he said, That's it, this is what I love. So um I think you're 100% right that people feel that quality. Uh they they see something they probably haven't seen before. It may be timeless, but they've never seen it before. So when you're able to design something like that, where someone says, Wow, I've never seen this detail before, it really just goes back to the time and attention you put in designing the buildings. And we and we see it every day when clients walk through our properties.
SPEAKER_00Italian design is often associated with the word quality. How would you describe Italian design without using the word quality?
SPEAKER_03If I should define quality without using the word quality, I would actually use the word culture in the sense that you know, for Italians, quality is something that we have in our DNA, it's part of our culture. It's not just uh related to the capacity of delivering, as I was saying, but it's really in our mindset also from a regularity point of view, from from you know, by law, let's say, in the sense that uh regulations in Italy are very strict. Uh so for us, just to give an example, sustainability in a building, environmental sustainability is a commodity because by law you have to reach a certain level of performance of the building uh since the very you know day one. And that's why, for example, uh, this is something curious that maybe you don't know. In Italy, uh certifications like lead or BRIM are not really applied. Because by law, you anyway reach a certain level of quality and energy performance that uh you know is not very far from what lead or BRIM asks you to reach, which is different in other countries, you know, because this is not this is not common. And uh and so I think that uh by all these aspects, you know, the capacity to deliver, the the uh engineering capacity in the country, the the regulation and so on and so forth, over the course of the years, uh, you know, it we developed a set a certain sensitivity uh toward what we do and what we touch, which is basically what I would define quality.
SPEAKER_00And Michael, how would you describe Italian design?
SPEAKER_01So when I think not necessarily my definition, but I think the definition when you think about Italian design is something very sexy. It's very, very racy, it's it's very very chic. And that's the way that I I I see Pin and Farina and the design that comes through through the cars or comes through the boats or comes through your watch collection or the trophies that uh that you designed. It's just sleek and it's uh sexy and it's it's interesting, and people want that. Um so when we're showing the show flat, if someone has owned a Ferrari or a Maserati or their father owned one when they were little, when they walk into our show flat, their eyes just open because they see the curves, they they they see the car they were in. When they go into the master bedroom and they see the bed, which is the the seat of a Ferrari in the headrest, they touch that and it just brings out memories. I mean, just the calf skin leather running your fingers. I tell people just rather, they're like it just reminds things uh from them from their childhood, or that first time they were in that car, or they maybe the prom they went to. So it just brings up all of these wonderful emotions. Um, and then the the challenge is how do you deliver on that? And I think that's where Pen and Farina comes in, that they just take these wonderful moments and they take pen and paper to deliver it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I don't think we've talked about it yet, but besides dealing the architecture of the building, um, which maybe you can talk about that, how the building has been sculpted, um the interior design has also been fully done by Pen and Farina. So when you're gonna walk in the lobby, you're gonna walk in that lobby and you're just gonna have these uh moments that take your breath away. And then when you go up the elevator into the elevator lobbies that have been designed by Pen and Farina, and then into the units themselves, um I think it's just gonna be an experience where people are buying an asset that will not be repeated, maybe for them in their lifetime. So it's a it's a very, very special, chic, elegant, sexy approach that Italian design brings.
SPEAKER_02If I may add something to what Michael said is he thought about aspirational and breathless and something that leave you speechless when you enter in a lobby. But if I can do a comparison, to me, is like Italian design and the quality is uh is a tasteful food. We as Italians would always love to talk about food, but um, when you enter in a space that is uh designed properly and with the right choice of material. Materials and of experience. It's like having nice and very good food when but that after the first bite, you don't get bored of. Because a lot of new spaces with marbles, with sparkling lights, with all these things and luxury things that leaves you speechless. Most of the times you are bored of these kind of things after the first year. But it's not what you're looking for when you buy your future house.
SPEAKER_00When you walk through iconic residences, where do you see Pen and Farina's design philosophy most clearly expressed?
SPEAKER_02I really love the project. It's one of the best that personally I have seen in Pininfarina's portfolio. Also because when it really reminds you of Pininfarina everywhere, the curves, the lines, the decision of the furniture that our team have done. To me, it's perfect.
SPEAKER_01Can you talk a little bit about the facade? Because I think it's something, it's a it's a it's a big building, right? It's a tall building, and the facade is striking. How did you come up with that approach?
SPEAKER_03Indeed, I would say the facade. The facade is the essence of Pinfarina. We were mentioning beauty and technology. So uh in Dubai, you have to create something, wow, unseen. Okay, so the effect of having every slab of the building uh shaped differently, create this kind of wave effect that you have on the building, um, which is not just beautiful, you know, it's complex. And this is the uh the feature of Pinfarina, the main feature of Pininfarina, the capacity to design something that looks very essential, you know, but that in the end uh it has a lot of complexity to be realized behind. So again, our capacity is to standardize the construction process, the design and construction process, as it happens in a car, uh to do beautiful shapes, complex shapes, with like with uh the capacity uh of taking under control cost, timing, and uh feasibility and buildability. So the facade to me is the moment in which you see the full uh capacity of Pininfarina. Then of course, uh interior design, uh, because interior design in uh iconic residences uh kind of tones down the typical interior design in Dubai. Uh we are opening air to a wider community, a wider market, uh, so Europeans, uh, Americans, that they're looking for a new sense of luxury, you know, that doesn't scream, doesn't shout, that is not flashy. And I think we reach this essence. And if I have to say, I think we are among the the first uh ones uh in Dubai uh to understand that the the the new market, the the the new target market that we want to reach uh is looking for this type of product. Uh and I think in a way we have created a trend and the rest of the market is anyway moving toward this direction.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I think the facade is contemporary, complex, uh uh modern, but if you look at the skyline and at the renderings with the image of the building uh in it, you will think that the building was already there because I think it gives uh it was really tailored, shaped, and and designed for that place. And I think this is uh uh is exactly when we reach the goal in architecture when you can design something that it looks modern, contemporary, and new, but it was uh there since the very beginning. It could be there since the very beginning.
SPEAKER_00Michael, what made the collaboration between Merit and Pen and Farina so special from day one?
SPEAKER_01I I wouldn't say it was from day one. All right. I I think that it would be easy to say, oh, we met each other, we like each other, we we we fit well. I I think that we've really grown to appreciate uh each other. We we are a design-driven development company.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And I think that Pen and Farina appreciated that. Um, I think that we did not want to cut corners on on quality um and not on delivering the experience that we said we were going to set out. I think they like that and they they worked on that. Um as far as Merid, we are ourselves, we are boutique of real estate developers. Even though we do build large projects, uh, we get a lot of the clients through my office, and I want to learn about them. Why do they buy with us? What did they like? Did they buy it because of Pin and Farina? Did they buy it because of the materials? What is it all about? So we're we're very boutique that way, and I think it's the same way with Peninfarina. I've never heard you guys call yourselves a boutique um design firm, um, but I think it's very family, family grounded. And I try to run my business as I run my family. Um, you know, try to respect people, you try to be honest, you try to um do the do the right things. And we've really seen that with uh with Pin and Farina. And I can't say that uh we're their maybe their favorite developer, but probably in the top, the top uh few percentile on that, because we really, really, really, really believe in what you you do. We really, really, really bring that to the market. The reason why we have this podcast today is for people to see who is Pen and Farina. Um so I think that the way that we work together is very, very nice. Pen and Farina have invited me to the opening ceremony in Italy for the Winter Olympics. And thank you very much for that invitation. Um, that's the type of a relationship that we had. There's a wonderful, a wonderful dinner for Pen and Farina's key clients that we um had recently. Um I was there, it was it was amazing. Um, so we we like this interaction with with our partners, and we think it's a it's a relationship we're going to grow. Um, our success is their success, their success is our success, and it really has been so far a win-win, I think, for for both of us. And it's the way we want to grow our business.
SPEAKER_00Branded residences are everywhere nowadays. What separates a meaningful branded project from the rest?
SPEAKER_03Well, first of all, yes, uh, everyone is talking about branded rese today, especially in uh Miami and Dubai. So it's uh it's uh a very significant moment for this market. And I'm happy because we as Pininfarina, we have basically mirrored the growth of this market. You know, we started about 15 years ago with the first branded project in Brazil with Cirella, and uh since then the market has grown exponentially and it is expected to grow exponentially until 2030 with more than 1200 uh schemes uh globally. Um, so uh what makes a great uh branded REST project today, I think, is the consistency between the brand and the real estate product. And how can you uh make sure that the consistency is there? Well, through design. And that's why I think Pininfarina uh became so strong in the market, becoming the first uh Italian brand in the world for a number of schemes. We have more than 40 schemes nowadays, because all we always kept the design in-house. So we have a design team of about 110 people uh divided across the US and Italy. And um I can, you know, uh you can be sure that every time you see the logo pin fine on the building, everything has been fully designed by us interior, exterior, amenities, and so on and so forth. Uh, this doesn't mean that we don't have a collaborative approach because you might expect that car design is a very top-down uh way of working. It's not, it's actually very collaborative. And uh so we have a very horizontal organization in terms of uh creativity and delivery, but we have also a very collaborative approach with all the other stakeholders of the project, you know. Uh they can be the engineers, the local architects, the developer, of course. Uh and I think uh today this is very necessary in design. Because again, when you deal with such a complex object uh as a building is, uh you really need to work more horizontally. It's impossible to work the old way in which the architect, you know, closed in his own office, can define all the elements. It's simply impossible because it's too big, it's too large. And uh in car design, I have to say uh that I've really found uh the methodology and the mindset to to work in this uh collective and collaborative environment.
SPEAKER_01Branded residences, um, if there is a a brand that adds some substance and value behind it, um, it's important. I don't think that you can be a branded residence that sells wooden floor, right? Or lighting fixtures, or maybe even furniture. I I think the number, the the top demand for branded residences are usually in hospitality. Why? Because afterwards you can get the services of hotel. You can get it, you can go to the spa, you can use the the facilities, the restaurants, all those wonderful things that that we want. Second is automotive because of all of the aspirational qualities that that automobiles derive and all the design that's behind it. And I think we are we are right there with uh with Pen and Farina in that mark. So if it was a Mercedes Tower, you only have Mercedes.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01We have Pen and Farina. We have a full spectrum um of potential buyers who will see quality in their design, um, and they will they will really, really, really, really feel what it is that they wanted from that project when they when they come in through the lobby, through the elevator lobby, through to their unit, um, and then on through the amenities and all of the other services. The one thing I think that that buyers need to be careful is when they invest in what's called, you know, a white brand, which is something that someone kind of made up, and they expect you to pay for that. There's no substance behind it. So anybody who's listening to this who wants to buy a branded residence, you really need to understand what's behind that brand. And is there really um connection back to the brand? Because if it's a piece of furniture or a crystal light fixture, there's probably not too much there. And in development, especially through a design-driven developer like us, we need to have the architecture really, really become the the core principle to that brand.
SPEAKER_02A lot of brands jumped in the brand addressing markets, and most of them are you can feel that it's only a label on a building because it's their first time. We do this since 15 years. We know how to craft and how are the rules of this market, and uh this is exactly what we are trying and striving to um not to do. And and we like to define ourselves as a quiet luxury because uh especially in markets like uh Dubai or Miami, you are you really want to stay away from logos and uh uh labels and all these kinds of uh flashy renderings there are everywhere. You want to be consistent, you want to offer an experience uh to the fine user, you want to be authentic. And this is the reason why we like to call ourselves quiet because it's like not staying below the line, but staying uh consistent to what we are and what we have been in the past.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I think it's very clear from our conversation that true Italian design is not about trends, it's about luxury, it's about quality, it's about feelings. And I'd like to end this podcast by asking a few questions that I ask all of our guests. So, what does luxury mean to you?
SPEAKER_03Um, I don't I try as much as possible not to use the word luxury anymore. Uh, I think luxury in a way um connects uh you know to doing something amazing for some epic views. Uh well, I think we need to have a more inclusive uh sense of uh luxury, and for me, uh luxury nowadays is what I call the economy of creativity. So, how in doing amazing and beautiful things for some epic views, we can involve others and enhance their creativity and creativity at large. So uh today, especially, you know, when we talk about Italian design, uh luxury for me is really enhancing and maximizing creativity.
SPEAKER_01I've been involved in these podcasts now for a while, and I think the favorite answer that I've heard, which I'm now owning, is luxury is when you have the time to do the things you want with the people you want. And you know, as as you know, we get older, and I'm the oldest one up on this uh panel today, that's really for me having the time to go ahead, go on that ski trip with my family, um, have a nice summer vacation, have an unlimited budget on restaurants with my my family and friends. For me, that's really, really what a luxury is. It's it's not it's not the the hard uh flooring that we put in the building, right? It's not the bed that I sleep in, which is nice, but really that luxury of time. And the older you get, I think the more you really appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was thinking to be more superficial, and to me, like luxury is something that makes you feel better. Um I don't it either comes from the the fashion, something that you want to wear, something that is uh in a way aspirational, but then when you have it on yourself, you feel better. And the same as uh it is in a space, it's not because of the price of an apartment, it's not because of the cost or the positioning, but when I'm inside, I feel better. And what matters the most to you when choosing a property? I don't think there is one only thing. Um I think it's a mix of uh sensations, positioning, location.
SPEAKER_03So we're talking here about branded real estate, right? So I think that what uh drives or would drive my choice is uh very much the experience uh that the building can convey and the values. Uh and and this most of the cases can be quickly and easily summarized by the brand itself. I think that in the uh next few years we will see a transition in the market. Because nowadays, as Michael was saying, the real estate market is still kind of a white label market. So you choose a real piece of real estate mostly based on price, location, and status. But I think that in the future the market will move more and more in starting from the brand, you know, as it happens for a car. If you think about when you buy a car, you know, uh you don't start thinking about the engine or the characteristics, you start from the brand and then you move into the model and then into the characteristics. And this is proven, you know, from neurosciences. And I think uh that we can and we will apply this model to real estate more and more in the upcoming years. And this is branded real estate with the end.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So if you can reply again, is emotions. It's the emotion that I, of course, I can be attracted from the brand, from the location of a building, of a property, from um where my friends live, probably. But then the emotions that I feel when I walk inside the building, uh, and these are given by lights, materials, again, all this stuff that are created by the architecture. I'm really a strong uh uh believer that design can give you the good perception or bad perception of uh of a space. So emotions, yes.
SPEAKER_00And my final question: what do you think will matter most to future generations in their homes?
SPEAKER_03When we look at future generations, uh uh, first of all, they start from values. So a brand or a product uh needs to enhance values that are relevant to them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I think that uh this uh this is already happening because you know, when we look at trends, we need to look at new generations, basically new generation generations nowadays. You know, it wasn't like that in the past, but nowadays they are the trendsetter because even older generations, you know, through social media and stuff, they they look at them to understand, you know, what do they want? And and they, I mean, new generations they influence a lot uh the the end user choices uh at all levels, especially in luxury. And uh it's very important for them, as I was saying, uh the values that they see behind uh an initiative, a project, uh a brand. So um we need uh as a as Pininfarina, but I think also you know in real estate uh to understand uh what's next. It's not just about, again, uh the design, it's not just about the positioning, but how, in a way, we're also giving back to the community, to the local community, how we are contributing to problems that are now global problems. Uh so even if it's a small piece, because of course we cannot change the world with the building, but how we are, you know, anyway, moving forward towards something which is a better world. I think this is the way to engage with them, and uh I think there's a lot you know to do, especially in real estate and construction, that in the end uh is still a very traditional market.
SPEAKER_02And Chiara, what do you think will matter most? Values plus well-being, so quality of the place they are living with in, the quality of the air, the quality of uh the lifestyle that they can experience in a building. So uh of course, also the amenities, it's uh uh it's an important part that we haven't talked about it, but uh the the gym, uh the open spaces, uh uh the shared spaces where you can have uh and where they can meet. Uh usually we really like to talk about uh creating communities in uh in our buildings and in our properties because uh uh we think that um people with the same uh um values are attracted by the same things to the same properties, so they can find themselves to each other all in the same tower and they can start sharing and creating something new that is properly a community. And so I think that yes, uh uh the well-being and the lifestyle, it's what will matter the most for the next generation. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Michael, do you have anything to add?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that there's a huge push to you know wellness. Um it's uh again another very important part of uh of luxury, taking care of your body, the air you breathe, the water you drink, the food you eat. Um so I think wellness will be something that we will continue to uh to um I think to push and to deliver into our projects. And yeah, I think that it'll be an interesting road that we're on to see how things uh develop. We hope to develop a lot more with uh with Pin and Farina. And I thank you guys for coming today and sharing with uh the merit audience you know the soul behind the project. And yeah, it's been very nice having this discussion with you today.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for inviting us. It has been a pleasure, and uh of course we look forward to connecting more and more also with the public to uh update uh about the evolution of the iconic uh project.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for having us, and now let's start thinking about what what is coming next.
SPEAKER_03What's next?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, next podcast soon.