MERED Talks Podcast
Not about selling property. About shaping how we live.
The MERED Talks podcast is a discussion club for open, honest conversations on how real estate development and people behind shape our daily lives, our wellbeing, and even our future.
MERED Talks Podcast
Architecture for People: Herzog & de Meuron
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Why do some buildings feel like they belong to their place, while others never do?
In this episode of MERED Talks, our host Harley Jenner is joined by Natalia Ermolenko, Chief Product Officer at MERED, and Olga Bolshanina, Partner at Herzog & de Meuron, one of the world's most celebrated architectural practices.
This conversation reveals Herzog & de Meuron's "inside out" design philosophy: why they never start with aesthetics, but with climate, culture, and how people want to live.
🎧 Hit play to discover:
• The "inside out" approach: how life within shapes exterior identity
• Why glass towers often fail in GCC climates
• How Riviera Residences balances privacy, community, and contributes to urban life
• Why MERED created more than 35 apartment typologies in the building
• How landscape, greenery, and microclimate influence daily wellbeing
• The role of materials and local identity in architecture
Listen to the full episode to understand why architecture isn't just what you see—it's how you feel, how you live, and whether a building truly belongs to its place.
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Olga has been one of the authors of the iconic architecture of the 21st century. Herzog and a muron.
SPEAKER_03State Modern, which is abandoned power station, transformed into a contemporary art museum. At Philharmonie in Hamburg, where this building became the icon of the city of Philharmonic Concert Hall. It hosted more than 25 million visitors since its opening.
SPEAKER_00Riviera residences combines individuality as well as community. How did you manage to do this?
SPEAKER_02Now we have more than 35 typologies of apartments, and this is insane.
SPEAKER_03True luxury. Being close to nature, bringing it really uh into the city life, terracing down this podium, bringing in gardens, and it's a kind of a stepped landscape of trees, pool, water, microclimate.
SPEAKER_00What makes residential architecture really for people? Welcome back to the Merit Talks Podcast. I'm your host, Harley Jana, and in every episode we go beyond property to explore how great people and bold ideas design the way we live, work, and connect. Today I'm joined by two wonderful professionals. The first to join us is Natalia Ermalenko. Natalia is the chief product officer of the Holden Company. Having an academic background in architecture, she joined the group of companies in 2013 and has been with Merit since it was formed. She serves as the leading expert in product vision and design. Her primary expertise is generating profit and addressing authentic user requirements. She actively contributes to professional forums and industry conferences. Our second guest today is Olga Boltenier. For 19 years, Olga has been one of the authors of the iconic architecture of the 21st century, Herzog and Muron, an international architectural practice based in Basel, Switzerland, and they practice a wide range of products across Europe, the Americas, and Asia. Olga has been responsible for numerous international projects, such as the Concept Masterplan for Leon Confluence in France, the Skolkovot District Masterplan, and the Skolkov Institute of Science and Technology in Moscow, Russia. Today, Olga is a member of the Herzog and Demurons Executive Board and is a partner in charge of the variety of architectural and urban projects. Thank you so much for being here today.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Harley.
SPEAKER_00So it's great to have you both with me today. And for many people, especially those who do not have a background in architecture, we judge buildings by that looks pretty or I like the shape or the style of this. But architecture is about so much more than something looks. And in today's episode, I would like to explore how great architecture comes to be and how it can connect people and even become part of our daily lives and part of a city's story. So, Natalia, why was it important for merit to partner with Herzog and de Muron?
SPEAKER_02So, you know, the Merit Company is a company who is uh addressing our design to the people, and the Herzog de Muran approach is more about the people in finding how people can live in the cities. And we as a developer believe that the environment that we build is for people to shape their life and maybe educate somehow to show the new ways of life, maybe to add more human experience and etc. Let's say.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And Olga, what convinced you that Merit was the right fit for Herzog and Dimural?
SPEAKER_03Great question. I mean, certainly one thing I can say that Merit has been a really fantastic client and we had a really beautiful and fruitful collaboration. In general, Sarzak de Marron doesn't really specialize on one type of projects. You know, our portfolio is really diverse. We work on cultural projects, we have built more than 30 museums around the world, we have been several stadiums, and uh fewer people know that sometimes we also work on more commercial projects. Okay. For us, there is no preconceived idea about good or bad projects. We we believe that independently from a scale or size of a project, each of them have a responsibility to impact the public space, to impact the urban environment, and uh they all contribute and bring something to our cities. So when we were approached to merit, for us it was important to understand whether they're looking for the same quality that we do, uh, whether we can find the right dialogue, we find the right uh values in our design principles. And I think throughout our collaboration it has been really inspiring, and we really could expand on on within this uh collaboration.
SPEAKER_02This is actually exact reason why we wanted to work with HDM because our approach is usually to push our boundaries beyond what we can imagine by ourselves, and HDM is a good partner to have this conversation.
SPEAKER_00So you've mentioned before that it was never a goal to create something impressive, but to create something meaningful. So, what's the difference between meaningful architecture and something that looks good?
SPEAKER_03Very good question. Listen, we uh when we start our projects, we really uh, as I said, we we have no preconceived ideas when we start to design our projects. Okay. There is never an aim to create a great shape or a nice form on an iconic building. It is really uh about site-specific architecture. We start each of our projects from the site, from the context, from the culture of the place, from the local materials, from the history, and and from the dialogue with the client, from the specific debrief, but also from the climate. You know, the climate, the temperature, the humidity, how people are in the space, how they feel. So all of these parameters that are really specific to each and single project and each and single site influence our architecture. So we feel like by taking these parameters into account and starting from this, uh, our research and our variety of options that we develop, uh, we make the projects more meaningful to the place.
SPEAKER_00Okay, great. And Natalia, how would you define meaningful architecture?
SPEAKER_02I'm totally agree with Olga because architecture is always about people and always about environment. So what makes it meaningful? The people who experience something, emotions or maybe the daily life, etc. And for sure, architects and architecture must have a context and you know the place, the sense of place. So that's why I think it's meaningful.
SPEAKER_00What's the main difference between uh designing a commercial or public space compared to a residential space?
SPEAKER_03In each project, regardless of what scale or importance, we seek to create urban life that they must and have to create and they can create. So we're really trying to go beyond the brief and we try to bring in this urban life within our projects. I mean, of course, there's a difference between designing a public building that reach that has a wider reach to the city, to the inhabitants of the city. It has an importance and contribution uh to the life and the community, but the private projects are as well, because we influence the public realm, we influence, we impact the urban fabric. Uh, for instance, in uh in uh in the Middle East, a current uh challenge is the amount of parking and the amount of podium parking that is uh negatively impacting the urban space and the liveliness of the urban space. Okay, so within a project like that, we really worked on reinventing the podium parking. We really wanted to create something completely new, unique. It's a really uh, first of all, by lowering the height of this of this base of the building, by bringing it down to the pedestrian scale, but bringing it out to the human scale, by activating the promenade, bringing in active functions along, so bringing it really uh into the city life, terracing down this podium, bringing in gardens, and it's a kind of a stepped landscape of trees, pool, water, microclimate, and so on. And so we really wanted to not only care about the amenities within this residential development, not only care for the residents, but also bring something to the activate this uh growing and newly establishing neighborhood.
SPEAKER_00Beautiful. So you mentioned that um Hazogon de Miron's approach is from the inside out. What does that look like in practice?
SPEAKER_03As I well, I mentioned earlier that we never start from in from outside in. We never start from identity of the project per se. Yes, certainly we look first at the typology it should have. How do we want to relate to the urban space? How do we want kind of typology we want to do? How do we want the people to live? But ultimately, when you design a residential space, the quality of the actual units of actual apartments is the most important things. Okay. So Natalia will be able to tell you a lot in detail about layouts because she's the absolute uh master of the layouts, but we really start from planning the apartment, from finding the right proportions, for finding the right spaces, and make the really great floor plan and a great residential unit. Okay. So, in a way, our project is like a stack of slabs and individual rooms. These individual rooms they express themselves on the facade. So, for example, we have a room with fully glazed facade. This is like a panoramic view all over the bay, but we also have invented for this specific project a bay window room. So we have these unique design elements that create the signature spaces on the inside. They are a dining room or bedroom, and they also have a frame view towards the outside. So this combination of these panoramic rooms and these bay view rooms, they are stacked together on the slabs and they create the identity of the project. So what's inside then expresses itself on the outside. And that's why I'm saying it has to be designed from inside out because we don't start from the architectural expression, it's really the life within the building that shapes its identity.
SPEAKER_00Can you explain more how you develop the layouts?
SPEAKER_02Yes, for sure. Thank you. You know, we're creating projects for people who will live in, and there are so many ways, how people live in, how so many types of families. You can be single, you can be together, you can be with two kids and three kids. And for sure, for sure, the behind the brief is great analytics about the market, about the people who's living in this region. So we're creating kind of matrix. It was not an easy task for HDM to hit our requirements because you know some percentage or something, etc. But in our collaboration, what we understand that we know for sure, you know, all these technical requirements for apartments, but that guys can bring something new for it to an experience of living. As Olga said, there's balconies, that bay windows, panoramic views. So now we have more than 35 typologies of apartments, and this is insane. I never seen such many types of apartments ever. Oh, really? Yeah, so we designed that through all our collaborations, through all months. That was back and forth, back and forth. You know, I can't be satisfied from first time.
SPEAKER_01I can confirm.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I want to polish that that that diamond till you know 100% and more. So now I'm satisfied. Thank you guys.
SPEAKER_00Great. Why did you end up deciding on 35 different typologies? Why is it such a large number?
SPEAKER_02Okay, you know, the diversity is always good for the for residential projects because we want to to invite more people from really different parts of the world. Yeah, and as I said, they have a different um different styles of living. And then we have like more than 35 actually types of uh apartments. That means that we can we can create a community of different people that can be bound to the same values, we can see how our amenities and our you know lifestyle, how the urban life will bloom.
SPEAKER_00Okay, great. And how can architecture create a sense of comfort beyond air conditioning? So, in terms of the shade, the microclimate, and natural ventilation.
SPEAKER_03Yes, thank you, Harley. That's a very important question. Uh, for Hatsogeneo, it's truly important to create climate-appropriate architecture. So, from the very beginning in this project, we've actually been looking at the relevant vernacular references. You know, we started actually with uh looking at the vernacular architecture of the region, and our first proposal for this project was to actually design a round earth facade for such a high-rise building. Okay, we uh went quite far in this development and the client was on board, but over time, the challenges of how to build that, how to build the high-rise, how to prefabricate, let's say it was a too big of a project for such a big experiment. But maybe we will later do that with the same client. Um so uh, but then uh what was important for us though, that we create the right amount of glazed versus solid facades, you know, because typically in this region, I don't know why, but um we have this a lot of glazed towers, a lot of them impermeable, sealed. So for us, what's important is the relationship from inside to the outside, okay. That each apartment opens towards the outside. So we have a generous balconies terraces, we have sliding windows. So in the mild months of the year, we can completely open the facade and then let the the wind come in. And so, yeah, finding this right balance between glazed and solid facade, these deep balconies terraces that create a passive sun shading, operable windows that allow the wind to come in, all of those parameters allow the people to really kind of extend uh their lifestyle from inside to outside.
SPEAKER_00And what makes the glass-dominated towers less suitable for GCC living and the environment here?
SPEAKER_03Well, they simply overheat. Okay. So glass is uh material that have a great solar gain, so that means that the sun comes in. So in order to make to reflect that's that that that that that sun one has to make a lot of a very reflective facade, so it results in very dark buildings. Okay, dark buildings again attract a lot of sun because the dark color absorbing, uh and then we will have to seal the whole building because we want to protect from the heat, so that requires a lot of air conditioning, and it's a kind of a snowball effect where or sandball effect where it gets hotter and hotter inside. So, yeah, I mean that's why vernacular architecture makes sense, that's why courtyard houses, low rise, uh mineral architecture, so mineral materials was really important for us. For example, in our project, we have this ocean villa typologies along the podium. Yeah, those ocean villas have these private patches in the middle, and they are uh reminiscent of this vernacular typology.
SPEAKER_00Lovely. Um de Muran is known for creating buildings that feel unique but also fit into the places where they're being built. How do you achieve this balance, especially in a in an upcoming area like Alream Island?
SPEAKER_03Natalia was also a witness of this process. As I said, we started with the Ramdor's Fassad because we believed that we have to do climate-appropriate architecture quickly. We understood that uh Abu Dhabi has its own contemporary architectural identity by now, and we had to react in a more um innocent way almost to this to this parameter. So uh once we figure out that the Ramd Earth was a challenge, we wanted to create to find another mineral material that would talk to the culture, that would talk to the place. So now we have this this um unique uh bay windows. No, we have a uh a ceramic facade. So ceramic is also a material that comes from the tradition in the region, and we have chosen for it a white color, pearl color, in fact, because here again, as a reminiscent of the reference to the pearl diving culture of the region, we saw that this white pearl color would belong to this place on one hand. On the other hand, there's this really specific light in Dubai in Abu Dhabi. There's the golden morning sun, this outstanding sunsets, and this humidity in the air that always creates a certain mist. And uh we think that this white reflective um facade elements, they will be reflecting the specific light of the day, and the building actually will change identity as we move from the morning to the night. So we hope, we think, we believe we have something that is rooted to the place while being very contemporary.
SPEAKER_00Great. And Natalia, are there any examples that you can think of of buildings that don't fit the area where they belong?
SPEAKER_02For me, um I have really high standards for aesthetic and for architecture because like I'm working with it and I always want to do for my company like the best. And when I'm traveling or just going around the city, there are so many things that can be, you know, just detaching you from the city. Or maybe this tower just you know give you not enough shadow if it's a sunny, sunny side of the road, or maybe that would be the road without any retail or shop or cafe or something. You know, in uh in urban development, there are so many mistakes that can be made with transport, with buildings, with uh greenery, with a lot of things. It's really complex, so it's better to say which is really fit to because there are so many.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and on the other hand, are there examples that do really fit well, other than Riviera residences and iconic residences?
SPEAKER_02I can say nothing.
SPEAKER_00Okay, then I shall move on to the next question. Olga, can you share an example of your work um where you had to rethink the existing urban experience um to make it more vibrant and engaging for people?
SPEAKER_03Well, Hatsekandemoro certainly have uh several projects that have changed cities and changed neighborhoods and reshaped the urban fabric of these areas. So, to start with, of course, State Modern, which is one of the projects that really um brought Hatsekandemoro into the international scene. It was our first big international project, and this uh abandoned, dilapidated, uh formal power station transformed into a contemporary art museum. So by transforming this museum into what it is today, the whole neighborhood around it changed. Okay, and by creating the turbine hall, which is a very unique uh experimental installation for the for of for it's an experimental art space. So uh this this building really changed the life of this neighborhood. Okay, same as at Philharmonie in Hamburg, where this building became the icon of the city of Hamburg, and the plaza that is on top of this brick building on the top. Of this former coffee storage building, and uh below the main Philharmonic concert hall is the super popular place. It hosted more than 25 million visitors since its opening. And this going beyond brief and always introducing the public spaces that are, in addition to the required program, they really embed those buildings in the life of the city and the neighborhood, and I think really contribute to the um to transformation of the cities.
SPEAKER_00So, Olga, you've said Riviera Residences combines individuality as well as community. How did you manage to do this?
SPEAKER_03I think in a residential project, it's a very key parameter. How do you feel together alone? And uh I think on one hand, we start from the units, we create the perfect units that feel good to a family, to a couple, to the different kinds of users. And then our facade, for instance, here also we're in the Middle East, so the privacy is of utmost importance, it's a cultural parameter as well. So between our apartments, we actually have these bay windows, and they separate balconies from each other. So actually, when you're in your balcony, you're protected from the neighbor. So you do not see you, you don't see your neighbor, you are in your own world, you're in your own balcony, in your own private environment. Then we have incredible amenities and gardens. A lot of design care went into designing this amenities and gardens. So we again have several layers of vegetation. We have tall trees for shade, we have a lush layers of vegetation for creating filters and promenades and kind of the more green lush environment. And uh, and there is a really just thoughtful design and a lot of care that went to designing uh all these amenity areas from the family area that is for the families with kids and how we uh create the playground adjacent to the to the to the family area, or how we create a spa with a really great view to the garden, but without possibility of overlooking that window and so on. So it's just uh layers of thinking and careful design, and nothing is for granted, and it's nothing is done quickly. It's just again, again, in dialogue and a discussion and refining layouts. And uh Natalia person spent a lot of time marking them up and making sure they are perfect. So it was a it was a great dialogue. We learn a lot also from uh from in this process about expectations for for this kind of level of residential complex. And uh uh we also I think teach the client certain things, and so we kind of learn from each other within the design process.
SPEAKER_02Let me just explain a little bit what is happening before architects. Okay, we're usually preparing brief, so we as a team uh of people inside the developers, so we're thinking what can be what we can do for people, like what can be what our values, what the people values over the years. So we start to thinking, for example, about amenities, and we think, okay, we want to build a compute community, so that must be kind of lounge. Yes, lounge will be the key point. What must have this lounge that could that will be the pool area, right? Done. So we're thinking about our new building without any architect or without any, you know, drawings just before, just to set up the product vision for our customers and our audience. And then when we approach an architect, we start a journey to know each other better and to define the really details in details our project together.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So then you give the architect the list of what you want your requirements, and then you work together to implement that. Yes. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I would say it's not just the list, it's really the vision, you know? Yes, it's important at the beginning to listen to our clients because one thing is what we write down, and then the other thing how we explain it. And so, like we're now uh considering starting new projects together with Merit and uh being on site together with Natalia. We were just talking about how this project will be, what is the vision for this place, what's the character of this place, what it should uh create, how it should, you know, for whom this project will be, and how this would work, and how can we kind of uh touch a certain generation of people or certain type of users, and it's really to align on the values, okay, to align on the on the on um yeah, on the common values together and then kind of carefully design them together so they represent both of our uh convictions in architecture.
SPEAKER_00And Riviera Residences has a huge number or a huge amenities area. Was this something that was unexpected? Did you have this idea from the beginning, or is this something that you work together to come up with in the end? I don't think I've seen a developer have this many amenities in Dubai or Abu Dhabi.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we we we thought that we must have amenities, but we can't ever imagine like that it will be like that. So in general, yeah, we had this idea. But then during this design process, maybe we can do that, maybe we can do that. You know, it's always a conversation.
SPEAKER_00Can you highlight what amenities we actually have in Riviera residences?
SPEAKER_02Okay, so the main point of our amenities is a lounge area. The thing about this place is a place where people can gather together during the day, um, for example, near the pool or drinking some juice or tea or something, and during the evening they can start the meaningful conversation about the day. Maybe they can spend their time with the older kids, with the small kids, maybe they can meet somebody new from this building as well. Uh, the other two parties, one uh one of them belongs to the kids and family area. Okay. So it's a dining place that you can spend your evenings, you know, cook something. You can invite the chef to teach you how to cook something, because in this region, we know that people really love to cook. They really love to celebrate the family values. So that's why we have the space. And also is a kind of small lounge area outside. Then you can see the sunset or you know, just feel the wind and hear the sound of the trees and etc. It's so romantic. The other part is the kids area, so it's a playful area for the youngest people who will live with us. And um, third part as a spa area and the fitness area. We know this is the key value for the most of the people, and this is coming like the new way of life. You know, many years ago, the fitness was the add-on to your life. But nowadays, this is your life. You want to be healthy, you want to live longer, you want to look good. So that's why we have fitness, we have spa, there is a hamm, sauna, some changing rooms, and all these things are integrated to our amenities so you can enjoy outdoor sports amenities like paddle court, cold plunge, and sport bowl.
SPEAKER_00Okay, great. And in your view, what makes residential architecture really for people?
SPEAKER_03Architecture is for people per definition. There's bad architecture for people, there's good architecture for people. I hope we're doing a good architecture for people. But for us it is important to create comfort. How can one create comfort in this climate? We already talked about climate-appropriate architecture, we already talked about reasonable ratio of solid versus glazed facade, we already talked about passive shading from our terraces and balconies, the privacy. But one very important aspect of this project is landscape.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03We worked together with Michel Devine Paysagist, landscape architects from Paris. We have uh many years of fantastic collaboration with them. We really appreciate working together with them on our various kinds of types of projects. And uh here we really wanted to create comfortable outdoor environments. So, landscape, vegetation, the whole idea of how this terraced, terraced paysage, terraced base of the project comes together to the promenade. Okay, how do we create several layers of vegetation? We have tall trees for shade, we have lush layers of vegetation to create privacy, we have a shaded walks, we have a sunny area. So, this whole um generous gardens of the project, the essential aspect for our design. We think this is a true luxury. Being close to nature, being close to the trees, being close to the shadow, being close to the water, that's what really connects people to the environment where they live, and that's what makes this project for people.
SPEAKER_00Olga mentioned earlier, she touched on privacy. So in this region, privacy is very important. How did you come up with this from the developer's side as well?
SPEAKER_02Olga mentioned bay window typology. I also want to add that we have different types of apartments and also different types of privacy things to have this privacy. For example, we have Sky Villas, and these sky wheelers are located on the top of our building, and uh they are exposed to the sun. So we know that it's not possible to spend such many time on the sun. So Gertzek and Miron propose us to have the pergola. So this pergola will give us shadow and also the privacy. So the people on the level above can't see what's happening below. Okay, yes, and also the second typology here as our ocean villas. So they have a private, absolutely private courtyard, but also they have a terrace which is extroverted to promenade. But also on the promenade, we have a retail, and you know the high of this retail is around six meters and it's glazed. But what we were thinking about together with HDM, how to protect our people who will enjoy the cafe and urban life inside this retail. So Erzigan de Miron proposes to have the shadow, uh, shadows, sunshade my keys elements, and it adds to the our promenade more Riviera style. So it starts to function. First protect and the other to give some vibe to which we want to have in our promenade.
SPEAKER_00Can you share an example from Riviera residences where a material or detail became a symbol of the building's identity?
SPEAKER_03Yes, I actually have one great example. I mean, I already mentioned earlier the the pearl-like ceramic cladding of the facade. I think that's one element that is important for the identity of this project. But we also have this Sand 3D printed fresco in the lobby. Okay, so we have been designing the the interiors for lobby and amenities. And uh this element is really a signature piece at the entrance. So it's roughly, I think, seven meters tall by 35 meters long. And uh in other projects in the history of Hetsecondemel, we have been working with uh this uh historically relevant images or or lithographs from the time, and they've been uh transposing them and the different materials within our projects: silkscreen on concrete or glass in Ricola or Ebesvalle in Germany, or cast concrete uh gravure for the winery in France, or engraved wooden texture for the uh Trois in Basel. So here we wanted to also work with the lithograph of the 19th century that describes the kind of pearling, pearl diving tradition of the region. And uh, but we wanted to use the local material, we wanted to take something from the sand from the site, we wanted to take something from the desert, so we decided to use the sand as the material for this fresco, and working together with the company that are able to print this in three dimensions, we are developing this unique piece. So for us, somehow it re-re-relates to the history of the city on one hand, on the other hand, to the history of the place.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for such a great conversation. It's clear that architecture isn't just in the drawings and on paper, it's how people experience and feel something and how it can be part of people's lives. So I'd like to end this podcast by asking a few questions that I ask all of our guests. So the first one is what does luxury mean to you?
SPEAKER_02So for me, luxury is the ability to experience a lot. And I believe that in our cities or whatever, right different parts of the world, the the better you feel, the better you experience, the more you experience. This is your luxury.
SPEAKER_03Luxury being alone in the forest, and you know, I don't know, somehow time is luxury. Yes. Having time is friends and family is a luxury. Uh being close to the nature is luxury. So I think yeah, having um being close to the water, to the landscape, to the to the senses, to to feel, to taste, to to experience, as Natalia said. So at the end, uh yeah, I think we all need to take time to feel.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And what matters most to you when choosing a property?
SPEAKER_03A garden. Okay. Somehow I am actually a countryside girl. And uh I've been living in various urban environments. I grew up in the village, then I've been living in Switzerland, in Lausanne, it's a city, then now Basel. Basel has uh a nice, nice scale of uh on one hand it's urban and vibrant, and the other hand is also kind of intimate and slow. And uh I don't know, I'm so busy traveling the world and always on a plane to somewhere. And so when I come home, my terrace with my trees and my plants and my basilicum and whatever, just like taking care of some living living species and uh kind of being close to to the senses and to the to this uh simple things is is for me a nice thing.
SPEAKER_00And what matters the most to you when choosing a property?
SPEAKER_02You know, I love to be in the center of everything, but kind of separated from the busy life of the city. Okay, so for me matters with you know some quiet Elise but in the really center on the city. So that's for me important, you know, to be connected to the city, but somehow the touch of it. Okay, and also I'm kind of low-rise girl. So I can't I try, but I really can't live higher, like 50 meters. Like for me, it's uh it's a kind of personal thing, and I'm really enjoying that in our building. You can choose like whatever, you know, every every every floor. So basically, this is it.
SPEAKER_00And what do you think will matter most to future generations in their homes?
SPEAKER_03I guess what I said earlier was still relevant to this question. I mean, I think the time will matter. The time is family of friends will matter. The uh flexibility will matter, uh, sustainable lifestyle, healthy lifestyle. I mean, less is more. Yes, we need to experience more, but maybe we also realize that we need less. And um I think, yeah, feel rooted somehow because we're also busy and moving and so on. So feel really good somewhere, be rooted somewhere. Feel like, oh, that's my place. That place is speaking to me. I relate to this place, I feel good here. So find those kind of anchor points in your life where you feel good, you feel grounded. I think that's gonna remain an important value.
SPEAKER_00Lovely. Well, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. And I'm hoping to have you on a future episode soon. Thank you, Harley.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Thank you, Harley.