I Don't Know Who Needs To Hear This
I Don't Know Who Needs To Hear This, hosted by website copywriter Amy Hanneke, is the small business podcast you need if you're TIRED of feeling like you're not doing enough in your business, like the bar is constantly getting higher, or like all the advice you get is to "just keep posting!" On this show, we're having closed-door conversations between business owners out loud - and bringing you along for it all.
*NEW EPISODES ON TUESDAYS*
I Don't Know Who Needs To Hear This
Doing The Damn Thing With Jess Freeman
If you’ve ever overthought a good idea right out of existence, this episode’s your permission slip to stop doing that. I sat down with Jess Freeman, web designer, SEO strategist, and founder of The Ordinary Business, to talk about how she turned a random Threads post into a full-blown summit and podcast in under four months.
// I DON’T KNOW WHO NEEDS TO HEAR THIS, BUT
Stop overthinking that idea and just do it. You can figure it out on the way.
In this episode, we yap about:
– How The Ordinary Business went from a snarky Threads post to a 90-speaker summit
– Listening when your audience says “we want this” (and letting that be enough)
– Why overthinking is just perfectionism in a cuter outfit
– Creating momentum you can actually sustain
– Letting yourself pivot, even after you swore something off
– What “ordinary” success looks like when you’re not chasing seven figures
– The underrated magic of caring more about impact than optics
// WHERE TO FIND JESS
– Visit Jess’s website
– Follow Jess on Instagram
– Follow The Ordinary Business on Instagram
– Visit The Ordinary Business + grab your replay pass
// MORE FROM HELLO & CO
— Visit my website at hellococreative.com
— Follow @idkwhoneedsthispod on Instagram
— Find me on Instagram
— Follow me on Threads (you’re welcome in advance)
— Subscribe to The Rough Draft newsletter (your Thursday morning shot of brain espresso)
— Have a request or idea for a future episode? Let me know here!
I don't know who needs to hear this, but go make the idea happen. Go bring that thought into reality. Go create that project that you've been kind of thinking about, but unsure whether or not the world needs it. The world needs it. The world wants it. And diving in is one of the best possible things you can do for your business and your life. Well, hello there and welcome to I Don't Know Who Needs to Hear This. I'm your host, Amy Haneke, and you've officially found the podcast for small business owners who are so tired of feeling like they're not doing enough. As a website copywriter who is quite literally always up in everyone else's business, I can confirm firsthand that we're no longer buying into the ideas of selling harder just for the sake of selling, doing more when we don't want to, and continually raising the bar beyond our own reach. I can also tell you that more than ever, we're all craving connection. So on this show, I'm sitting down with some of the best people out there who do also happen to have businesses to have the conversations we wish were having more. And with that, let's do some connecting. I am so excited to introduce you in this episode to my friend Jess Freeman. Jess is a website designer and SEO expert, and most recently the host and creator of the Ordinary Business Summit, which you'll hear us talk a lot about in this episode. I am so excited to introduce you to my friend Jess Freeman. She is a website designer and SEO expert through her business, Jess Creatives. But she also is the creator and host of the brand new Ordinary Business Summit, which we need to talk about for a second because at the time of recording this episode, we were hoping that this episode would go live before the Ordinary Business Summit actually happened. So you're going to hear us talk about Jess's amazing idea and event in the future tense as if it's about to happen. Unfortunately, it did already happen about two weeks ago at the time we're airing this episode. But you can still visit theordinary business.com to grab a replay pass if you're interested and to sign up for updates for any future ordinary business events. Okay. Thank you so much for joining me, Jess. I am literally so excited to talk to you today. If you're listening, we just recorded actually an episode for Jess's upcoming new podcast. Do you want to say the name of your podcast?
SPEAKER_00:Um, the Ordinary Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_01:We love it. We love it. We'll talk more later about where you can find that when it's time. But Jess, to start with, do you want to give us a rundown of like what you do, who you do it for? Give me like the the quick story of Jess Creatives.
SPEAKER_00:Um I run Jess Creatives. I've been in business for 14 years. I do web design and SEO for nutrition and fitness professionals. So like dietitians, personal trainers, physical therapists. Um, and I also have the ordinary business, which is all about being ordinary business owners who aren't trying to make seven figures, and there's a summit and a podcast, and who knows what else would come out of it.
SPEAKER_01:Not us. Not us, that's for sure. Because Jess, uh, when did you have the idea for the ordinary business?
SPEAKER_00:Um well, okay, so it wasn't even the ordinary business, it was the first week of June, and I made this silly little thread to post about because I was about to go to an actual conference, and I knew it was gonna be the same old, like, like I was excited, but I knew that the people were gonna be the same. Like, this is how I scaled my business and like made a million dollars negative 10 minutes a day, yeah. Like, and I have a team, and this is how you automate everything and all that jazz. And so I made this post on threads about someday, maybe I would host the ordinary conference, and I put like a little TM just to be like funny.
SPEAKER_01:I put a TM on everything, so I love that.
SPEAKER_00:I love that, and and I said, and all the speakers would make less than$300,000, would be in business for more than five years, and there was some other disclaimer, or like not disclaimer, some other um like like criteria on there, criteria, yeah, and then and then I said, like, and also there would be snacks, and I was just being funny because like I've been in business for so long, and I have gotten overlooked and dismissed and rejected from so many things because I only have like 500 people on my email list, I barely have 5,000 followers on Instagram, I'm less than that on threads, like I don't make a million dollars, and so I was just like, like, I just am so tired of like we're always highlighting these huge creators, and it just always feels very unattainable and not realistic, and all this. And so I just like made this post just to be funny about like uh, whatever.
SPEAKER_01:And this was three months ago for the record. When we're recording this, it's early September. You did this in early June, so it's been three months since you made this post, and what happened?
SPEAKER_00:Um, the thread like blew up, it didn't go viral, but it like blew up, and so many people were like, Okay, but legitimately, like I would buy tickets to this. And I think um, so then I mean, like, also I want to say, like, people were emailing me and DMing me and being like, no, people were like, Where can I give you my money to sit in this room? But really, can you do this? And I was like, I freaked out a little bit and was like, guys, like, I'm not doing a conference. Like, I have no guys, this is not happening. No, um, and so I was just like, like I marinated on it for a little bit and was like, I don't know. And then I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna do a summit in three months.
SPEAKER_01:Let's go.
SPEAKER_00:And then in the process of also setting up the summit, I was like, you know what, this also needs a podcast that's going to launch with the summit. Because of course, like I don't already have enough on my plate.
SPEAKER_01:No, why would you why would you not add my motto is always the more the merrier when it comes to tasks, and I don't regret it until significantly later, but hey, here we are. Here we are.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so um, so yeah, I decided so that was like early June that I made like literally the first week of June that I made that post, and then I think it was like first week of July that I was like, okay, it's happening. I'm doing a summit. And at first, some people thought I was doing an in-person thing still, because I like they thought maybe I just called it a summit, and I was like, no, no, it's a virtual summit, it's a virtual summit. We'll we are entertaining the idea of something in person next year. We'll see. We'll see.
SPEAKER_01:I I'll see you there because I know that if you said it, like I obviously it's gonna happen. So we'll also we'll all see you there next year at the ordinary business conference in person. But um, so you you went from posting on threads the same way that I do. I feel like we use you actually you give a lot more direction to your threads. You remember to post your sales content. I am quite literally just vibing on threads and sometimes leaving a link. But you went from off the cuff idea on threads to a fully formed, realized idea that people can join in the span of four months. Because at the time we're recording this, the summit is in a month. So from post to reality in four months, and that's actually what I wanted to talk to you today is like taking action in your business. Because I think when you're starting a business, at least this is true for me, I want to hear how it was for you. I was so paralyzed that my ideas weren't good, that they wouldn't work, that I would like somehow fail. And all of the mental blocks and the logistics got in the way of me actually just starting scrappy, is what I always refer to it as. So how, how, Jess, how do you take action?
SPEAKER_00:So, this is the conundrum that I always have trying to like explain how my brain works. So I kind of just like fell into business ownership. Like, I mean, I intentionally started just creatives, but I was like, I won't take this business full time till I'm like late 40s. Just kidding, I started like I'm at 24. So it was like, okay, now I'm doing this. I am not, I am not an overly confident person. Like, let's be real, I have lots of self-esteem issues, but for and I am very much I'm an Enneagram one. I have I'm very much a perfectionist, you know.
SPEAKER_01:I I had never heard you say that out loud, but I don't have questions. You are an Enneagram one.
SPEAKER_00:I am an Enneagram one, like through and through. And was somehow that those um personality traits or whatever you want to call them get like pushed to the side when it comes to my business for the most part. And I'm like, we'll just try it. We'll just we'll just try it.
SPEAKER_01:We'll just do it, we'll just send it.
SPEAKER_00:And I like I was telling you this before we started recording, but like I literally have an inside joke with some of my closest business friends that I will be boxering them about an idea. I'm like, you know what? I think I want to do this service, or like, I think I want to do this workshop or whatever. And they get back to me either immediately or two hours later, and they're like, So you probably already have a sales page set up, right? And I was like, Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and I think that's why for everyone listening, uh, Jess and I actually are friends off camera as well, and I am very much the same way. Uh, specifically with regards to this podcast, I texted Jess because I actually think it was a while ago. The lag period for this podcast has been longer than I would have liked, but um, it's been you know, it's been like a whole month. But I texted you as a podcaster, and I think I said, like, do you like having a podcaster? Or so I said some dumb question. Yes. And you were like, Yeah, you think about starting one? I was like, Yeah, here's the name, here's the cover art. We when do you want to come on? So yeah, as like people who are prone to action, we do have a very similar approach. But like, how did you know, or when did you know that the ordinary business was going to take off in the way that it has?
SPEAKER_00:Um, so I was very again, I was I just want to be very transparent. I was very hesitant and very unsure about doing this. So it wasn't like that thread took off and I immediately was like, oh great, I'm gonna do a summit. Like I told I mentioned like I waited a few weeks. I had several hesitations around like, are people tired of summits? This isn't really in my niche, because again, I work primarily with health and fitness, and while they can and will be part of the summit and the podcast, like it's not gonna be niched down to that. And so I was like, I don't know, like then it's not my niche, and like all this. Um and so I but the thing that kept sticking out to me was how many different people were like, this is so needed, and like this is the conversation, and like the I don't, I don't know if demographic is the right word, but this like group of people that are in this ordinary quote unquote space are always forgotten. We're like the middle ground of like we're not the newbies, and we're not we're like the we're the flyover states of of business orders. Yes, yes, like we're not like we're like the hidden gems, and so we are hidden gems. It was like this is this is just the middle ground that gets forgotten, and it was so many different people saying, like, I think you have something. And I was like, I don't know. And then I've had a post go viral on threads, not that summit post, but a post um that talks about like again, it was very off the cuff of just like I have like this many followers, this many email subscribers, but I have paid myself a salary every single month for 14 years.
SPEAKER_01:Will you say the will you say the number? Because you said financial numbers in that post.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I said so. This year I will I'm on track to make 200,000 sorry, 200,000 per year, like, but that is gross, not net. And I clarified that in my post because I get really annoyed when people talk numbers and they don't talk gross or net.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, profit is different than your revenue.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and so I was like, I'm on track to make 200,000 again this year because I did that last year. And it I mean, like literally last year it was like 205. Like it was like just eking out, eking out um, pay myself a salary every month, but because I'm not a rags to riches story and I'm not a millionaire, the internet and the podcasters of the online business base are just like you're very ordinary, and like we don't you have nothing to share. And that post went viral and got me like 400 plus uh followers.
SPEAKER_01:I know I had to laugh whenever you shared that because you just shared that you earned four or five hundred followers from that post. I was laughing because it was a post about you don't you don't have many followers, yeah, compared to like the big accounts, and I was like dying laughing because I was like, this is so so ironic. But it's I feel like you said backing up to what you said about like people were literally asking for this. I feel like if you're listening to this and you're like, I want to be better at taking action in my business and not hesitating so much. I do feel like as someone who's also doing this for a very specific offer right now, you have to be able to listen to your people and provide specifically what they're asking for. There was no hypothetical in what you were doing. You weren't like, I made this this summit, who wants to come? You said jokingly, what if, what if this existed and then people said I would go, and then you created it. So I feel like one of the things you have to get good at is like road testing your ideas quickly. Yes, but like how did you because you said like you really weren't sure, like you sat in it for a while. Like, how did you get over that?
SPEAKER_00:I um talked to several different people. I mean, like, literally, I have like my core people that I talked to, but then I had some other business friends. I'm like, can I like run this idea past you? Like, I'm not really sure like what I'm supposed to do here. Like, I'm getting really like hesitant about this, it's another thing to take on. Um, and so it was just talking to different people and getting their perspective on it, and like a few things, two specific things that were pointed out to me that I'll share in case anybody's like nosy. One, um, one friend I was talking about, like, well, you know, then I have all these people, you know, I do what if I do this summit and then I get a five thousand five thousand five hundred or thousand, who knows, like maybe even just fifty people like on my email list or following me, but they're not in my niche. Like, what am I supposed to do with them? And like, then they're not gonna turn into clients. And that particular friend was like, you are thinking of a summit as just like lead gen. What if you thought of the summit as its own moneymaker? Like instead of just framing it as lead-gen, which is true. Like, I've always just done summits as kind of like lead gen.
SPEAKER_01:And that's what they are for a lot of people that come, like that speak at summits, right?
SPEAKER_00:And so it's like reframing that, which I think is a good thing for us to do as business owners, is like try to look at things as like from a different perspective of like maybe it's and that doesn't necessarily mean like, oh, don't look at this as Legion or clients or money, like it could be like maybe this is not my core offer, maybe this is a like intro offer or something like that, like just reframing whatever the idea is of like, well, everyone says that XYZ has to be making money or it has to do this or has to do that, like we can reframe it. Um, and then the other thing, it was actually my husband, because I talk, even though he's not in business, we talk business a lot, and he has good ideas. He was like, Okay, but even if these aren't quote unquote clients, well, first of all, he was like, You're telling me you wouldn't if someone like I'm you're telling me if someone was like, I'm gonna buy a ticket to this thing. Well, like they're like, Well, no, he meant like you're telling me if somebody's like, Hey, I went to your summit, I want you to do my website, I'll pay you eight thousand dollars, you're gonna be like, Oh, sorry, no. And I was like, That's a good point. That's a good point. Um, and then he was just like, I think there's something here, like you're getting really good feedback. And and for me, like this has been, I haven't said this like on threads, but I was gonna say that on a recorded line of side. I've been in business 14 years, I've done summits, I've done podcasts, like multiple podcasts, like my own podcast. Yeah, I've done YouTube, I've done like I've done a little bit of everything. I have never had something like this that people were actually excited about.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like, and I think that was the thing that stuck out to me was like, of all the things I have ever launched or talked about, I've literally never had people be so excited about something. And I was like, I don't think I can ignore this.
SPEAKER_01:No, like no, it's the kind of thing that just eats at you, and like I feel like it just stays in the back of your mind of like, what if, what if, what if you don't do it. But like now, I need to know. I mean, to be fair, as we're recording this the summit, actually, when you're hearing this the summit hasn't happened yet, we'll talk about you joining us in a minute, but how are you feeling? Excitement level. I know the people are excited. I'm one of the people, I'm very excited.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I am very, very excited. I do feel like I've had several people once I like announced the summit and got speakers and that kind of thing, like since it's become more visible and people are like learning about and stuff. I've had several people say to me directly or like on threads or whatever, they're like, you are on to something. Yeah, which is also very, very intimidating.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it actually really stresses me out when people say that because I'm like, thank you. I agree. Um, please stop telling me that.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, like I I did post on threads, I was like, um, I do think this is a good idea, but also like I'm scared of how good of an idea it is because that I want it to be so good, yeah, that y'all love it, and I'm scared it's not gonna be good enough or it's gonna flop or like whatever. And several people were like, that's not gonna happen. Like, but that's like the perfectionist in me. Um, that's like, but I want it to be so good, and not in terms of like, I want it to be so good, and 5,000 people show up. It's just like I don't want it to be mediocre, and that's the perfectionist in me.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think that like what you're saying though, because I'm sitting here, like obviously in my little podcast house bubble, I want to like put a bow neatly on all these takeaways. But one, I think the reality is that just business is messier than we're anticipating. And two, like I actually think that a I don't want to say an overwhelmingly large dose of self-doubt because I wouldn't even call it self-doubt. But I think having an air of like taking yourself and your people seriously and genuinely, truly to your core, wanting to give them something that will change them, help them, support them in some way. I think that is an essential ingredient to making like to taking action is like you have to keep caring. Like, yes, you it doesn't make business sense if the things you're doing aren't monetizable in some way, but like you that can't be the only reason you absolutely have to care.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. And I think that is one of the differences of all the things that I've launched, and some of them have flopped, and some of them were like, I mean, I got two people or like whatever is that I wasn't caring about how I looked or what I made, I was caring about like I think this could help somebody. Yes, and then I either didn't market it well enough, or I thought it would be helpful and other people didn't, and that's why they didn't sign up, or yeah, you know, the pricing could be wrong, the messaging could be wrong, but like I didn't care about like what I what happened to me. It was more like I want to be able to help people. This could be a the thing that helps, and like that's what I care about. And then I would try it, and if it didn't work, I was like, okay, well, and sometimes that meant like pivoting and retrying it, or just be like, okay, well, delete that sales page.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like I and I think that's when you're taking action, when you're like piloting a new offer and doing a new thing in your business, I feel like there are just circumstances that have to be correct, but you have control over them. I was gonna say it's like a perfect storm of like something that you felt strongly about, your audience felt strongly about, and the interest happening at the same time as like your momentum for it, but you can also generate some of those things, you know, like like you have control over like your momentum, how you prioritize your work to make a new offer happen. Like you have to a degree some control over it, but sometimes it's also just like you have to learn how to how to go when the people tell you.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and that was part of it. Like, I had someone ask me, like, oh well, did you like take on less client work in September so you could like prep for the summit? And I was like, sure didn't because I book out several months in advance. Yep, and so like the client calendar was already full, and I was like, for me, like I think what you're talking about, like just listening when the people say go. I yes, I absolutely could have just been like, Yes, let's do the summit. Um, but I don't have time until January. I feel like the momentum would have been gone.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you have to you really have to seize, you have to taste the moment, take the moment and taste it if you're yeah, like you really know.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, could I have like started a Facebook group or Slack channel to kind of like try and keep the momentum? Like maybe sure. Like I could have tried, but I was like, I I can't wait.
SPEAKER_01:So, like no, like their excitement becomes your excitement, and your excitement gets them excited, and so you do have to capitalize on it. Like, that's one of the things you can't when when you're listening to this, we just we're recording them out of order when we're publishing them, but in a few weeks you'll be able to listen to my episode on Jess's podcast where she asks me if I plan things, plan out my tasks a week in advance, and I laugh in her face because you have to be able. I feel like to be flexible, um, and you just have to be so ready. Sometimes the idea comes to you, and sometimes you go find it, but like you have to just go.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It's you just have to do it and be flexible. Like, this is what's funny. I started the year and I was like, I'm gonna do these mini quarterly summits in my niche, like miniature um newsflash didn't go well. And I was like, literally in April, was like, I am done, I'm not doing summits, like these aren't working. No one's gonna remember that I was supposed to do these quarterly, and and I think that is one key thing to tell people when you're like scared of taking action. Um, like if I think about Amy, you, and think about your 2025. I I love you. I cannot remember if you launched something in January or February.
SPEAKER_01:I might have. I can't either. Like it's very possible that I did.
SPEAKER_00:I'm like, even my friends, I'm like, I don't remember.
SPEAKER_01:I don't I I consume all of your content. I have no idea. I you said that and I was like, you did summits earlier.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So I did I did these two, I did, I was gonna do them quarterly. So I did one in January, one in April, and then by April, I was like, these aren't working, I'm done. And I was like, I just I don't know. And I did have it's so funny because I told my mastermind, I was like, I feel like I should do something like I don't know, like a private podcast, or maybe I do a bigger summit or something. But I was still thinking in the realm of health and fitness, like I wasn't thinking anything about ordinary, I was just like, yeah, I don't know. And I was like, I'm just gonna let I literally remember I got off the mastermind call, they didn't have any great ideas for me.
SPEAKER_01:I feel yeah, the health and fitness space, I feel like is very it's set in its ways right now.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah, and so I was like, I don't know, I'm just I'm not gonna move forward with the Q3 mini summit or Q4. And I was like, I'm just gonna like see if anything comes to me. And then I made that silly little post, literally, like again, I have no event organization skills, so I was like, I'm this is just me being annoyed at the industry.
SPEAKER_01:I'm just mad.
SPEAKER_00:I'm just mad, and I was mad talking about it on threads, and then people were like, No, but really you should do this, and I was like, but I swore off summits.
SPEAKER_01:Like well, I think I think that's like the other thing, too, which I think this is probably the last thing we're gonna leave you with when you're listening, but like you can't be rigid in the delivery method for your offers. Like you were saying earlier, like, well, I'm known for making websites for health and fitness professionals, and this has nothing to do with literally any of those things that I just said. Like, if you have a message or uh an idea that the people want that you want to deliver, just because you swore off like doing a summit or like doing this kind of offer again, you just can't ever say never. Like you can't you can't do it because when the idea is good, the delivery method becomes secondary because whatever however you deliver it, you could have turned this concept, you are turning this concept into several things, like summit podcast. I am so confident that by the time you're listening, we will also have eight more things to add to this. So just go follow Jess on Instagram or threads because she'll she'll have a whole laundry list. But like when the concept is good, you have to kind of just get out of your own way.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, and that was a hundred percent what I had to do. I was like, my hesitations, my fears like needed to step aside because it was like this is what something what people need, and I'm so glad that I did that because the response has been so so good, and like speakers were so pumped to like be a part of it, my Slack chat hosts like you, um, my sponsors, like just all the participation, like the people who are DMing me and being like, I am so excited to just like watch the summit. Um, and people who are like, if I I don't even know, I've lost count of how many people are like if something happens, like if a speaker drops out or something, like I how many speaker applications did you get? 91.
SPEAKER_01:I remember. I was I I remember we were texting while you were getting applications, and you said I think I have to close this form because I'm getting stressed out. Um, but yeah, so Jess, tell me where can people find the Ordinary Business Summit podcast? Everything.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So the easiest place is just to go to the Ordinary Business.com. That's where the summit information is in the future. If you're listening to this, that's also where the podcast will be. The podcast is launching with the summit, so um, that'll be always when October 14th and 15th is the summit. So you'll be able to do that. There's bonuses as part of the summit. There's gonna be bonus and fun things with part of the podcast. Um, so you can get in on all of that.
SPEAKER_01:Come find us. I'll be hosting a Slack chat, like Jess said. I don't know what day it's in my calendar on one of the days of the summit. Um this Jess As really did ask me, like, what do you how do you plan your task? And I was like, truly, I think that the summit slack chat is the farthest out I have planned, other than like client projects, because I do have for those, but like that's the next task I have on my list. It's in a month.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I'm glad it's on the list.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it is on the list. It's in my calendar. We're ready. But yes, thank Jess, thank you so much for joining me. I uh sting and love everything you do and you. The internet brought us together. It truly would wait. Um, and if you're listening, I hope you join us for the Ordinary Business Summit in October.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Thank you for having me, and I hope I see y'all there.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for tuning in. As someone whose time feels constantly limited, I want you to know how much I genuinely value your time and am honored that you've come choose to spend some of it with me. To find show notes, guest links, and more, visit hellococreative.comslash podcast. And we'll see you next time on I Don't Know Who Needs to Hear This.