Everything Counts

Heidi: Do all the things, with purpose.

• Kristin • Season 1 • Episode 8

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Do all the things, with purpose.

In this episode, Kristin sit down with longtime friend and multi-hyphenate creative Heidi (she/her)--marketer, DJ, podcaster, higher-ed storyteller, civic-tech comms pro, and now small-business founder--to explore the many twists and pivots of her career. From clerk-of-court cubicles to national civic tech work to launching her own consultancy, Heidi shares what she’s learned about work boundaries, risk-taking, pay cuts, unionization, and staying grounded through it all. It’s a conversation about reinvention, and creative renewal.

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Kristin:

Welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real, a podcast about careers, detours, and the absurdity of work. Here we explore the twists, the pivots, and the tiny choices that shape our work lives with humor, feminism, and honesty. I'm your host, Kristen. Let's get into it. Hello and welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real. Today's guest is a longtime friend of mine, but I actually don't feel like we talk shop that much. And I'm so excited to dig into her career and learn more about the pivots and especially more about the work that she's doing right now. Heidi, she her, loves doing all the things. She's a founder of Heidi Kerr Strategies, which specializes in nonprofit marketing and communications. She's also a DJ, creative writer, and the co-host of Also That, a podcast focused on cultivating a more creative life. Heidi, welcome to the show.

Heidi:

Oh my gosh, I am so thrilled to be here doing all the things with you.

Kristin:

We love doing all the things. We love to be outdoors. You love to be outdoors. I love to be outside of my house, but not outdoors. I just don't really want to be in nature. But like you love nature.

Heidi:

Sure. I don't identify as a person who loves nature, but I bet if people were to look at my Instagram, they would think I love nature. I mean, I do. Whatever. I moved to California from New York. I definitely love nature.

Kristin:

If you were gonna like pick one of us who loves nature, it's you. So congratulations. Okay, that's real.

Heidi:

Thanks. Um, but you know, you love all things fashion and culture, and like also are just a really incredible professional that I love having in my personal and professional network.

Kristin:

So my gosh, thank you. Same. And also just remember the days of Brooklyn, we we really have had kind of similar careers, but we've focused our friendship on like going to yoga and getting food. And so I'm I'm really excited to talk about work today, but I also hope that you'll interject a little bit of life um into it because you have made a cross-country move or two in your town. And um I was kind of hoping you could give us a quick overview of your career so far.

Heidi:

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've been a professional since day one. I think even when I was an undergrad in college, I was hustling because I had to, because nobody was paying my bills but me. And the best job I could get was like in an administrative office. But that really like kick-started a career in marketing and communications, which was my career path. I was just trying to make it work. But from there, I yeah, I started working in higher ed marketing and communications right out of college. And then after that, I moved to New York to do like the real fully corporate gigs and did a lot of marketing and communications across private sector startups. And then I fell back in love with higher ed and eventually pivoted to nonprofit marketing and civic tech marketing, which is it's where I'm I'm meant to be.

Kristin:

I mean, it's an amazing journey. You've done a lot of transitions. I really want to dig into some of those. But first, I want to talk about some of my favorite topics that may or may not have influenced you and your path that you were on, including like astrology, birth order, just how and where you grew up. I'm interested in kind of all of that groundwork that leads us to where we end up going. I was very poor growing up.

Heidi:

And I think literally a friend's mom took pity on me. And my first job was administrative office job. And I was working at a clerk of courts at 16, which was crazy. I will say, you know, moving to more maturity in my career, I'm realizing so much of my younger ambitions were really tied to, yes, surviving, especially in New York City and creating a career that helped me feel like I could survive. But now that I'm a little more settled, I'm kind of unpacking a lot of like the work trauma and things like that. And now I'm like, no, in fact, I'm pivoting my career to things that help me thrive, which I acknowledge comes from a place of privilege, but I wish I would have come to this 10 years ago. I have youth in my life, like Gen Alpha, Gen Z, and I really worry about their career paths because the struggle is so real for them around like AI, the elimination of entry-level jobs, and just the lack of, I don't know what's happening with our education system, but it's not preparing people for careers. And I hope that this podcast reaches them because they need to know like those micro nuances of your career path, the choices you made, even if you are sending out job applications and you're not getting those jobs, you are making decisions to apply at certain organizations, which will, if you like zoom out, you'll see a broader pattern.

Kristin:

Yeah, that is still gonna tell a story. And you're still gonna have skills from every application you send and every weird interview that made you a little uncomfortable or like made you have imposter syndrome, that's teaching you things. That's giving you data.

Heidi:

As I've like founded this new organization for where it's essentially solopreneuring, I've had to really take everything I do in stride. And when I do things like an RFP, that's gonna take me 10 hours and it's very likely not gonna get noticed at all. I have to tell myself, I've learned a lot.

Kristin:

This is also like quintessential millennial life, I think. Like we're always gonna be like, no, we're learning, it's fine. Um, okay, so you have been on many paths. How did you land on the higher education path? What drew you there? What made you stay there? Tell us a little bit about that.

Heidi:

Oh, I love education. I love learning. I I love institutions where we help people learn. And I love being at the forefront of like investigation and curiosity and science, even though I am not those things. I mean, I think curiosity, sure, but I just like being in the room. But I just deeply respect anyone who is helping others learn and pushing our our knowledge as a society and humanity. And what kept me there was helping people reach the next steps in their own journey, whether that's academic or or career or this innate need to explore and learn. It is so exciting to be around young people who are passionate, right? Who just don't know that their career, like they're fueled entirely by passion and potential. And they don't know that their like academic career or their professional career is gonna have a lot of like tumultuous experiences just yet.

Kristin:

They're just very optimistic and driven. I want to know whatever you're willing to share about what drove you away.

Heidi:

First, I want to say higher education is under attack in this country, and we need these institutions, and they need our support more than ever. Honestly, because the salaries are so low in higher ed, I just felt like that I had to leave because you got paid in power and I didn't play those games well.

Kristin:

Can we talk a little bit about your life transitions? You moved from Florida to New York first. Tell me about that transition from the standpoint of like culture shock and also how you navigated your career moving into New York, a very well-known, hard to break into space.

Heidi:

Yeah. So culturally, I had to. It felt too small town for me, Florida as a state. I had to be in the big city. And I was really fortunate that I was able to negotiate contract work with my employer that I was leaving. And that was, it was a very limited scope, maybe three months, but that helped bridge the gap. I was applying like Matt in New York to jobs, and it was that was impossible. No one wants to hire someone who just moved to New York. And so I temped and I got a full-time position from that temp work.

Kristin:

You then worked for a higher education institution in New York City and kind of want to hear about how you approached storytelling with that institution and more broadly in higher education, because there's a lot of stories to tell, but how do you go about doing it?

Heidi:

So, what I didn't say was that like kind of that first real job that I had outside of college, it was at a community college. So, not a college I went to. I just happened to land a job at a community college. And then when I moved to New York, I worked at a city college, which something about the stepladder of a community college and a city college to economic mobility, to career opportunities and things like that, like really still to this day resonates with me. And these commuter schools, these are beautiful places. It's a launch pad for future potentials. So when I think about the storytelling and the approach to that, I really always focus on like student outcomes just at a high level and then focusing on the voice of like an individual, right? Making it centered. Who are the professors who are helping? How are the students like thriving? What do they find unique? Like, I don't know what their stories and their lives are about, but I want to hear so I can tell it to the greater audience so it can reach someone else.

Kristin:

I really love it. It's funny when we talk about our work and we can hold the complexity of like that was not good. And also, wow, what an honor to get to do that work and to get to tell those stories.

Heidi:

I I think I was uniquely positioned to like going back to the life thing because I was a first-gen college student in my family. And so a lot of the people that these these commuter schools served were like first gen college students. And I don't again, it's like the importance of lived experience and having like diverse people on your staff, especially in comms and marketing, is I think it really helped a lot of privileged people who are sitting in the director level and above seats, like understand like the gems when it comes to storytelling.

Kristin:

Yeah. I I also think that like the higher you climb, maybe the more you lose touch with what those stories actually are or could be. You know, like maybe it's easy to lose touch with why we're even at this table in the first place.

Heidi:

I think also, as now that I'm aging, I'm no longer the youth. It's like these institutions served a certain population. And I know that like I have experience that a younger person can't bring to the table, but I value their voice. The junior people on the team who are telling me like this is what their peers think, you have to listen to that.

Kristin:

I want to next talk about you moved from New York City to California in the middle of a pandemic, and then you got a pretty cool job. So tell me about that time in your career.

Heidi:

So I moved, I thought I hated New York City. Turns out I hated my job. I couldn't separate them because in New York the identity is tied so intensely to your work. I was making a lot of money. I we have to talk about salaries in general because we should be more transparent. And I have jumped salary bands quite a few times, and it's pretty easy. Just have to get a new job. You're not gonna get promoted to a higher salary. You will never not really.

Kristin:

If you start somewhere young, they're never gonna see you as never mature. You gotta bounce.

Heidi:

But yeah, so I was making a lot of money. I think at the time, this is pre pre-pandemic, I was about to hit six figures, which, you know, is a big goal for a lot of people. And I had to, I had to bounce. I had to get out of my job. And um, but in in my head, I was like, it's gotta get out of New York and decided to move to California. I took a demotion basically to get out, right? Like during the pandemic, no one was hiring. But I knew that this job was always temporary. It was just the the band-aid to get me out of higher ed. And um I was applying and someone reached out to me, a recruiter reached out for like my dream job. I I went from a higher ed institution to a national civic tech organization doing marketing and communications. But it was also to say is that like I took a big risk and I try not to think too hard about salaries. Now I'm not making that salary anymore. I'm starting a business, zero money.

Kristin:

Part of the part of the title of the podcast where that is nothing is real. Nothing is fucking real. Nothing's real. Everything is a chapter, a moment. You hit that dream salary, and then something's gonna happen.

Heidi:

I'm feeling very imposter syndrome-y again. I go from feeling like I've made it to like, what am I doing? And it goes up and down like the salaries. I just have to assume that never stops. I'm feeling that way. Yeah.

Kristin:

It I don't think it stops. Talk to me a little bit about you got a front row seat to a unionization process.

Heidi:

I've had more than one front row seat to a unionization process. It gets really ugly. And from a marketing and communications perspective, I am the enemy. I represent the brand. And part of representing the brand is like monitoring what people are saying about you, raising it to organizational leadership, and also creating like crisis comms around that.

Kristin:

Calling that crisis comms also is like comms and crisis comms, and like what is really a crisis is so fascinating.

Heidi:

Yeah, it is. I've been in a few, um, a pandemic at a higher ed institution. That was the worst. It's real crisis. I've been at an organization where they fully lay off an entire regional office, big crisis, hundreds of people laid off. Yeah. Um, but the unionization process, it's really challenging. As a supporter of unions, it was really hard to be in a position of where I was the company's person.

Kristin:

I can imagine. I every story I've ever heard about it, what I understand is that like the people in your seat and the executives are the enemy. And as an executive, I'm like, I don't want to be in a position where I'm like scared of unionization. I'm pro that, but it it's a tough, tough process.

Heidi:

It's a tough process. It was very public, like truly, it went to the NLRB, but also it was the right thing to do. And I was fortunate enough to be at an organization that also believed it was the right thing to do. All of the leadership. That was the craziest part of it was that like this is not specific to my experience at this one organization, but the company people are the enemy usually. But in this situation, the company's people were supportive. It was just every you know, when when careers are involved, people take it so personally, which it is, it's people's livelihoods. But one thing I've learned across all of my jobs, every single one, and take note is that the company does not care about you. And you are not entitled to that job. And like you have to separate yourself from that. So on that note, what are your hobbies?

Kristin:

How do you separate yourself?

Heidi:

I create really strong boundaries with work. I just refuse to work weekends. And I sign off at five. These are my boundaries. I I have to sign off at five so I could go paddle board in the summer, right? Like so I could make it to the lake in time. But it was really important to me to do that. I like to, I'm learning to DJ. Um, I go to a lot of shows, I ride horses, go hiking, I like food and wine, and I do a lot of yoga and go to the gym. I do it all. I think I'm too much of a Capricorn.

Kristin:

Hobbies are hard for me. But you, high C's, like you are really good at finding the things that make your heart happy.

Heidi:

Oh, and I'm a podcaster for also that, which is my podcast. Yeah, let's talk about it. Radio and podcasting is a lifelong passion. I love radio. If you go back to like the foundations of radio as a mass media broadcasting system, the airwaves are free. And this is kind of why like some of the stuff with the FCC is so awful right now, is because they were always designed to be free. So I love this idea of radio and I was in radio in college. I was a DJ, and I was also um interning at like an NPR affiliate. I thought I was gonna be a journalist, but I could not, absolutely, I could not be a journalist. They have no other life. And I just I just couldn't do it. But so then I was like, okay, I'm gonna like make money, all these things. And and I eventually came back around to like doing the things I love, which was podcasting um and and radio shows. And one of the things that I sought after to establish with also that was helping people who are career professionals who've dedicated their lives to their career, find out how to tap into their creativity and their passions again. Because we are born creatives. That is hammered out of us.

Kristin:

I mean, I couldn't agree more. I would love to hear more about the podcast and the hopes and dreams for that because I think all of us hear something different when we hear the word creativity.

Heidi:

Yeah. I mean, there's creativity in the way you live your life and the way you design your home. It's not just like being an artist or a musician or a poet or a writer. There's creativity in like the way you choose to take a walk on your lunch break and like challenging yourself to see different things, right? To have like moments of look for moments of awe.

Kristin:

Can you talk to me about what you're doing now? Your company, you're building it. I heard that stay was a big day and you filed for an LLC.

Heidi:

This is how you combat the imposter syndrome. You just talk like you've been doing this forever. I have an LLC that is pending approval with the state of California. Yeah, today was like the day I filled out the paperwork. I mean, if you want real tea, it's just really hard out there. Like when I left my last job, I did about a week and a half of like applying. And I'm as a as a very qualified candidate, right? Like I have like, I have the receipts, I have the references. It was just, it was too hard. There was just, it was just too much competition. I'd spent hours and hours interviewing at various companies to get to like the second to last rounds and just kind of been like, okay, sorry, we're going with someone else with no feedback or anything like that. Do not be that hiring person. Please give feedback. But at the same time, I was like enjoying all the conversations I was having with these nonprofits. And I was like offering solutions on the spot. And I was like, I think, I think maybe I just want to help more people. Like, I don't necessarily need to be like a staff marketer, a staff comms person. I can just help them solve like short-term problems. And I've worked with so many. As someone who has hired contractors and freelancers, those are some of my favorite people to work with. They really bring the joy and the inspiration. So now I'm I'm on the market. You can hire me. You can find my professional portfolio at heidicurr.com, offering marketing and communication services for nonprofit and mission-driven organizations. And if you're a civic tech organization, hit me up because I love civic tech. What's your like dream project? I am really passionate about turning complex ideas into things that are digestible for the public in a way that translates to momentum and action and impact. So while I don't quite know what my dream project is, like I don't have like a targeted client or anything like that. I do know that I would love it to be with a systems change organization that's like working to overcome tremendous challenges across like multiple factors and helping them tell the story of what they're doing and how they're helping people and how others in their ecosystem, their supporters or stakeholders, can. Help them amplify that impact.

Kristin:

One of the benefits I always find with a contractor, a small business versus like a big firm is the agility. So I do hope that people see this value that you can bring and see the agility that you can bring. You can like get something up and running really quickly.

Heidi:

Given this time where like the government funding for nonprofits is being cut and things like that, I know that they unfortunately are not hiring full-time staff and they still need help.

Kristin:

The storytelling is so important and that's a whole soapbox of mine about how it can be the first thing to go, but it's actually one of the most important things. So I love that you're doing this. Yay! Congratulations. Thank you. I want to pivot us to the lightning round. And I want you to answer quickly, don't overthink it. The first question is what was the very first job you ever had and what did it teach you about work?

Heidi:

The clerk of court's office, I guess like a record something, show up on time and yeah, show up every day. Show up.

Kristin:

Just show up, like truly. What's one thing you believed about careers when you were younger that you definitely don't believe now?

Heidi:

Oh, that you can work your way up to the top. Should I expel on that?

Kristin:

I didn't know what, but like, yeah. You can't. It's you mean like, I think specifically, you do you mean like in one company?

Heidi:

No, well, more so it's like it's a pyramid. There's not room at the top for everyone. Oh God, it is a pyramid. Yeah, it breaks my heart. Like it's it's truly there are people who are out there who are going to work as hard as me. And I'm not at the top of the pyramid. I'm nowhere close. Kristen, you're close to the top. I know.

Kristin:

But also the top is fake. The top is fake. The top is fake. Whenever I say that, it sounds flippant, and I don't want to downplay the fact that you're right, there's a pyramid, and people are always climbing it. And it's amazing. Every step of the way is an achievement. And also that top is different than anyone imagines. It's a lot of smoke and mirrors and and learning how to speak the right language. And that is a lot of privilege built in inherently. Yeah, you can't work your way up to that. Damn, Heidi, what is the best or worst piece of advice you've ever gotten?

Heidi:

The worst piece of advice, which also I think was the best piece of advice, was from my employer. So they did hire me. I had a tattoo that was showing. This was the South, and they said, in the future, I wouldn't show your tattoos in a job interview. And I thought to myself, oh, I am always showing my tattoos in a job interview because I never want to work for someone like you again.

Kristin:

Brilliant.

Heidi:

Because yeah, that's like the perfect test of you want to be there.

Kristin:

That's amazing.

Heidi:

That's actually don't take out your piercings. Like don't work for those people. Yeah.

Kristin:

Well, similarly, what is your career armor? The little thing that you reach for when you need comfort at work, and that can be like food or even clothes, music.

Heidi:

It's not like a thing because I don't have a lot of sentimental like things. Although music is a good one. Like I will blast like a bop if I really need it. But my armor in general is when my career has me feeling like shit, like I am not a worthy human being. I just look outward to all of the people in my life. I have an incredible network of friends and family, and they bring me so much joy. And they are, you know, you are a reflection of the people you surround yourself with. And these people are freaking amazing. So I I must have something there.

Kristin:

Man, you're really killing it. What is your most embarrassing work story?

Heidi:

I don't know why this one sticks out. This is so stupid, but it's the one that I remember at the moment, which is when I was 16 and working at the clerk's office, I was on the phone with a member of the public and they were calling about a deed. And I was trying to ask if it was a condominium, but I said, Is it a condom? And all of my more senior established uh colleagues were dying. They were, I could see them in the cubicle all losing their shit. And I was just like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Menacondominium. Where do you go from there? And that's so sad as like a young woman teenager. It's like, oh yeah. So in the conservative Christian South. Oh boy.

Kristin:

God. No wonder it comes to mind for sure. Yeah. Do you fix typos in casual communication?

Heidi:

Not anymore. Look at you. Not anymore. Because that's a that's the sign of I don't know what world we're living in where now I, an AP style trained, like copy editor, am like I can't fix a typo anymore for two reasons. One, no, nobody's got time for that. Two, it means I'm not using AI, so you're welcome.

Kristin:

What would your advice be to someone who feels off track right now?

Heidi:

Keep going, keep going. Like throw stuff at the wall, something will stick. And if it's like not the thing that you're hoping for, it can open doors to the thing that you're hoping for. If you feel stuck and you don't know where to go, like do anything. Like you have to try something and fail. One of the things that I'm learning when I interview creatives, and also that is that like you have to do something, you have to create the thing. And if it's not what you want, it will give you more information to help you move toward what you're looking for.

Kristin:

Would you like to promote anything? Please say again you how people can find you.

Heidi:

Yeah, so you can find me um professionally at heidicur.com and I am on LinkedIn counting up those followers. I am up there seeing all of you looking at my LinkedIn profile. Um, but you can also find me at Heidi Curr on LinkedIn. Or if you want some fun recaps of my podcast and my DJing, you can find me on Instagram at also that heidi. Or you can head over to wherever you get your podcasts, like everything counts, and also subscribe to also that.

Kristin:

Also that is the podcast. Go find it, go listen. Thank you, Heidi, for being here. This was really fun. I feel like these are topics we have never really done a live on.

Heidi:

Well, you know, it's because I've always been like oddly intimidated by you, by your professional professional.

Kristin:

Nothing is real. But but I I you never know. It's similar to for me, it's like um I do I work in comms, but like I don't feel like a comms expert. So I'm like, I don't know what crisis communication really mean.

Heidi:

Tell me, Heidi, teach me. It's the worst, honestly. I don't know because I I really jumped out of it, but it really is about controlling the narrative, as is all comms. It's all controlling the narrative, having the things in place. If you know something's gonna hit, having the things in place, like sticking to it and and making sure your people know what they're saying.

Kristin:

Oh my god, yeah. Why is it so hard? I I have a one crisis communication motto as someone who does not identify as an actual expert. And that motto is we always let them outcrazy us.

Heidi:

Oh my God, I love that. You have to put that on a t-shirt.

Kristin:

Thank you. I mean, it is my actual life motto. It applies to life. It applies, like, are you going through a breakup? It applies. Does it applies to everything? Let them outcrazy you. But so you're telling me that that that crisis comes really is that simple?

Heidi:

No, I maybe hire you for professionally. Professionally, I'm not sure that is the right mind.

Kristin:

That is not the right approach. Well, why not? For me, the crisis is always coming from inside. And so I'm always like, yeah, stop talking about it, and it will be fine.

Heidi:

No, that's true. That is true. Stop talking about it. Move on. Anyway, this was truly a delight.

Kristin:

Heidi, thank you. Thank you.

Heidi:

Thank you so much for having me. I am so thrilled that you have this podcast and this space for just helping people kind of like realize that it's not that serious.

Kristin:

Heidi brought up something that I think about all the time and I wanted to dig into it. She brought up taking a pay cut. And I know from what she said in the interview and also from other conversations we've had, I know that she has mixed feelings about having taken a pay cut, but I kind of wanted to sort of pause on it, reflect on it because I've done it too. I took a pay cut once. I was fairly desperate to get out of a job, and I went to a new job where the pay band was smaller. The opportunity itself was so right. I don't know that I would have just jumped to get out of the situation I was in, but I jumped because I knew that job was going to be good for me. And it was exactly the growth path that I wanted for myself. And so I did it. And I have no regrets, but within a year, I had made up that difference and a little bit extra. And I was getting the exact experience I hoped for. But I will also say that there were lots of days where I kind of felt like an idiot for being paid so much less for this job that was pretty tough. The reason I wanted the job is because it was very robust. And while again, I have no regrets, I do remember feeling silly sometimes having taken such a cut and like it was harder to take myself seriously in those moments. And so I think I just want to encourage all of us to think expansively about the idea of a pay cut. Are you trying to make a huge change in your life? In the case of Heidi, she was trying to move across the country. And that job got her where she wanted to go. And so there's always going to be a downside. Hopefully, there's also always an upside. And I also know that right now we're in this moment where folks have lost their jobs, have lost their life's work in many cases. And so pay cut doesn't even factor in. But when it does and you're feeling torn, I really just encourage you to not make that an automatic no. Really think about the benefits and what you're trying to accomplish in making this move. Thanks for listening to everything counts, but nothing is real. Remember, even when nothing feels real, everything you do counts. Capitalism may be absurd, but so are we. And on that note, well, it's been real. Don't forget to subscribe. I'm Kristen. I'll see you next time.