Kenzie: Adaptation is a skill.

Adaptation is a skill.

In this episode, Kristin sits down with her sister Kenzie (she/her) for a conversation about nonlinear careers, survival skills, and what it really means to “read the room.”

Kenzie’s path, from reality TV casting to corporate recruiting to a bold pivot toward law school, is a masterclass in adaptation. Together, they unpack how early chaos shapes professional instincts, how work inevitably collides with life, and why being “off track” is often exactly where growth happens.

This episode is about transferable skills born from resilience, the limits of changing systems from the inside, and remembering that behind every résumé, interview, and job title is a human trying to make it work.

How to get in touch:

• Instagram and TikTok: @kenziedgardner

Transcript

Kristin: 0:03

Welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real, a podcast about careers, detours, and the absurdity of work. Here we explore the twists, the pivots, and the tiny choices that shape our work lives with humor, feminism, and honesty. I'm your host, Kristen. Let's get into it. Hello and welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real. Today's guest is someone that I am so excited about. And also I worry that we're going to be too hilarious, too much funny power together on one podcast episode. It is my sister. She has a fascinating career to tell us about. I cannot wait to dive in. Kenzie, she her, started out in reality TV casting, spotting personalities made for the scream, and eventually brought that same intuition for people into the corporate world. Her career is a study in reading the room and trusting your gut. Welcome, Kenzie.

Kenzie: 1:02

Hi, I'm so excited to be here. You have no idea. I do fear this will be the episode that calls for a spinoff. I fear slash hope slash dreams. Can you get us started by telling us like a short version of your career? So when I I had been in college for four years and decided I don't want to do this anymore. So I really wanted to live in either LA or New York. You lived in New York. And so I was in my little rebellious stage of like, then I'm going to go to the other side of the I'm trying to get extra hard on our parents. I know. Um, so I moved to LA with just being like, you know what? I need a break from school. I don't have a degree yet, but I've been in school for four years. So I'm gonna move to LA and just kind of see what happens. I'd been studying theater, so you know, I had that typical 21-year-old, like, I'm gonna go make it. Um, and then I fell into reality TV casting. I responded to a Craigslist ad. Stop it. That's how you got the job. I got the job on the Craigslist ad, yeah. For an intern, an unpaid internship at a production company. I had no idea what I was getting into. Um, the internship was me casting for the show Sex Sent Me to the ER. Stop. I don't feel like I knew any of it. Oh, yeah, that was my first, that was my first gig. Paid. No, I was not paid.

Kristin: 2:18

Wow.

Kenzie: 2:19

I was not paid. But no, I was going to like sex toy release parties in LA to like mingle with people undercover to see if they had any crazy stories and then recruit them to come be on the show. Can you tell me what that looked like? I imagine that you like walk up to someone, you're like shake their hand, you're like, hi, have you ever been sent to the ER from sex? I mean, yes, but you had to be a little more undercover about it. So it was kind of like you usually start talking to them, like, yeah, you know, you asked them like how they got into the industry, and then you're like, oh yeah, well, you know, I work in production and I'm actually working on a project right now. The thing about reality TV is that even if it's a well-known show, you can't say what show you're working for. And so you can't be like the TLC show, sex semi-sweet. It had just had to be like a really cool production project talking to people who have had incidences in their intimate lives. I'm a 21-year-old kid at a sex party. Not a sex party. At a sex toy release party. Tell me your story. But no, it was really like email sex stories at gmail.com. Yeah. So it was like it was grimy. So that was my like entrance into the full-time working world. Wow. Yeah. So that is kind of the next question that I had was like, how did you make it official? So you just kind of kept getting gigs. Yeah. Um, this may have changed. Back then, it was pretty rare to be a staff on a on a casting company or even a production firm. Everything is by contract. And so I was just like, okay, this contract is five weeks, so I have five weeks of income, and then I'll worry about it later. Perfect for a 21-year-old. Yeah. So then you just kind of you give everything to a project, literally, like 12-hour days to a project, and then two weeks out, you start looking for your next project. And so you just kind of have to grow it from there. And that's what I did for a year in LA, and then I kept it going when I moved back to Dallas. Oh, yeah. There was like a Dallas dating show. Date Night Live. It was called Date Night Live. And Date Night Live is awfully close to like date line. I would be very nervous. Date line is crime. I know. I'm just saying. Not this. My brain is like, ugh. Date night live was like, I was casting singles in their 30s, I think, like late 20s, early 30s, and they were going on a date literally live, like going on a blind first date live on television. If I recall from this time, you were like on dating apps to find these people. Yeah, I was married, had a kid, and was on dating apps. Cat pushing people into dating stuff. Tender, bumble, and hinge. That was my casting tech stack. Wow. I want I would be so curious to know if that has changed in the last 10 years. Like, one, people are so much more concerned with their personal digital footprint. Right. And so, like, are people still using their own information on a dating app to catfish people? I mean, they have to be. I don't know how else they're finding them. I don't know how else they're finding them. I can tell you that when I would go to like bars, I was I was casting a very, very popular dating show where there is one person choosing from 20 people, I guess. I don't know how many people. It's a very popular dating show. Does it start with a B? Yeah, there's a very popular Mormon who's gonna be on it soon. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So back in the day when I was working on that show and I was I was casting men, and I would go to like bars near corporate areas in Dallas, I would take my now ex-husband with me. Because people are like, Oh, you're a scam.

Kristin: 6:01

Yeah. Like, ha ha, what a weird pickup line. And so I would take my then husband with me, and he would kind of follow me around and be like, she's legit as a way to be like, hey, I'm casting for the show. Are you single? Are you interested? And when they would give me that look of like, the what? Like, what the fuck? That was my credibility piece was like, but see, but and I'm not waiting on you. It's like the opposite of picking people up.

Kenzie: 6:26

Yeah. I'm like, no, I'm actually picking you up for somebody else, but I don't know who that person is yet. And I also can't use the title of the show. That's so crazy. Yeah.

Kristin: 6:34

Can you tell us some of the things that shaped who you are as a human, including, but not limited to astrology, bribe order, you know, chaotic family dynamics.

Kenzie: 6:45

I'm a youngest child of three. I did indeed grow up in chaos. Um, there were three years in between each of us. So between you and I, there are six and a half years, despite what people think. Um we look the same age. People think she's younger. It's fine. Um, so that definitely played a role. I watched you kind of just like like you went to college and then grad school, and then you had this like like everything was very by the books for you. And I remember being very stressed out about that. Because I was like, I don't want to do any of that. Well, don't worry, mom and dad dad was not particularly thrilled about the idea of grad school. I know, I know. I also have a very chaotic thick three in that I'm a cancer sun, Aries rising, Gemini moon. That makes me like start sweating every time. Me too, every time I think about it. I can I'm like, uh-oh, my Gemini is showing. Uh-oh, everyone's shut down. Everyone's in danger. Um, so that definitely plays a role.

Kristin: 7:44

So you have fire, air, and water. Yeah. You just don't have an earth which shows.

Kenzie: 7:48

Which, yeah, that's actually what the problem is. I have a I also have a lot of Leo, which like it's crazy because in my personal life, I I struggle with confidence. But in my professional life, I'm like, no, fuck you guys. I know exactly what I'm doing. You are like confident as hell. At work. Outside of work, it like dissipates. But at work, I'm like, no, I know what I'm doing, and everybody better just sit down and listen to me. I do think that where I ended up and where I am pivoting to now does have a lot to do with both cancer and Aries, like my sun and rising. Yeah. Like the emotional, empathetic side and also the fiery side are definitely starting to collide a lot more frequently than they used to. I think it has facilitated a lot of the moves that I've made because of I tend to rule with my emotions. And so, like, that has like, if we get into other parts of my career, you'll see where I'm like, my feelings take over. And if I don't feel good about what I'm doing, then I don't want to do it.

Kristin: 8:57

So I want to talk about the next kind of phase of your life where you've moved back to Texas and you're newly married, and then you're you become a young mom. And there's like, this is like an interesting transition time in your life. Yeah. And so I want to know kind of how you navigated that, how you were feeling, and then how you slowly started to pivot into this corporate recruiting.

Kenzie: 9:18

I tend to fall victim to what I think I'm supposed to do, which in that period of my life definitely had a grip on me. When we first married taxes, we lived in a very, very small town where it was like, you know, work at the hospital or bust. So I worked at the hospital. I worked as a nursing aide in the mom and baby unit of the hospital. I learned a lot. And I it was weird because it didn't last very long. But I was like nursing people after they had their babies. I was not qualified to be doing that, but I was doing it. Because you're in a small town, they don't give a shit. Then after my first daughter, I was a stay-at-home mom for two years, thinking that's just what I should be doing. Childcare is expensive. Um, my then husband had an hourly position, and that's just what worked. And I knew even then that, like, while society, maybe like Southern society, because other times, was like staying home, raise your babies. I wanted to finish that degree that I had abandoned a little bit. So I was an online student at the same universities. I reached out, I reapplied to the online program, and I finished it online within a few semesters. So amazing. And then was like, okay, I have a degree time to go back to work. Fair. I love my kids dearly, but I'm not cut out to be a stay-at-home mom. Um, I need to be doing something. Got an interview at Pier One Imports RIP. Oh, that was the next one. That was my first role. I remember being in my interview and them asking about reality television. And I was like, ah, that's when I realized that that was gonna be my leverage. Yeah. Like that was gonna be how I got jobs because people were curious and they wanted answers. I got the job. And then a few weeks in, someone else was like, well, it was between you and somebody else, but you just had beautiful hair. And I was like, okay, okay. So, like 25-year-old me, I'm like, hair, reality TV, I'm gonna make a career. Personality higher highway. I'm like, I've gotten this. Like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, but I've got good hair and weird experience. So, but that was a great job. I learned so much in a very short period of time. But as we all know, Pier one was not doing great. And so I had to pivot. And that's how I ended up being industry agnostic. Yeah. Was I realized that if I can transfer my reality TV casting skills, they're all the same skills. You have a description of what kind of person you need. Go out in the world and find them. No matter what industry, I worked in civil engineering as a corporate recruiter. I did not know shit about civil engineering. They're like, we need a concrete specialist. I don't know what the fuck they do, but I could find one. But just teach me the words. I'm like, yeah, tell me how to talk to these people and I'll figure it out.

Kristin: 11:56

This is part of why I ask about like the early experiences that sort of develop us, and I ask you specifically because, you know, we're in the same household. And we experienced the same kind of chaos. And you and I have, though our careers look different, we have leveraged the same skill set. And that is the ability to like go in somewhere, speak the language, be charming. Tell me more about that skill set for you and how you use it.

Kenzie: 12:28

I mean, it shows up every day. I never know what I'm doing. Like, literally never. Nobody anywhere knows what they're doing. That's the thing. They know their skill set and they love to talk about it because that's what they know. And that's what I figured out in like interviewing people and hiring them. Is like if you can't talk about your skill set, that means you don't like it enough or you don't actually know it well enough. And that's how I know who to send forward in an interview process. Even if you're like, oh, well, I'm shy or I get really nervous, that's fine when I'm asking you, like, tell me about yourself. But when I'm asking you about like your career and your experience, that should come so easily to you that you're not even shy because you're like, well, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And I think that's where I also developed that. Cause like I may not know shit about coding, but I know how to interview somebody and I know how to like have a conversation and build rapport. See, this is why I see in you exactly the thing that I have. And I wish there were better words to describe this particular chameleon like skill set that we have. Yeah. That like I know is born of trauma, but at this point, I'm just willing to wear it on my sleeve proudly. Yeah. But it's for sure trauma. Oh, for sure. But like we just adapt. Exactly. You have to adapt to your environment. And that's you're surviving. Like, I'm talking, I'm surviving. I'm talking, I'm surviving. Every new industry, I'm like, yeah, I'm I can adapt. I know exactly what I'm doing.

Kristin: 13:45

Yes, I see that similarly in my own career because I've had to fundraise. So I'm I would find myself in spaces that I wasn't used to with like proximity to like tons of wealth or like networking. Anyway, and you know, oh, where do you summer? I'm like, I don't fucking know. I just got here from Texas. Those questions, but you know, you like you learn to speak the language and you learn to adapt. And it's you fake it. A skill set, it is valuable. It is okay that it came from survival because it's become such a valuable tool, is is the framing I've decided to run with.

Kenzie: 14:20

I mean, I think people, a lot of people who go through trauma come out with some sort of skill set based on their resilience. Yeah. And I think that even if you don't notice that you're developing it, you do. And I mean, part of mine, I'm like, uh-oh. I'm saying people pleasing again. Part of mine is a little bit people pleasery, but I've gotten super like much, much better about that over the years. Like there was a time where I was the less experienced employee in a meeting, like terrified to disagree or speak up. And then with time, it was like, no, I'm I'm confident that you're wrong. And I now I'm not scared to say it because I've I've I've adapted to this environment and I've witnessed this environment, and I'm now gonna tell you that you're wrong. And now I've I've had like less experienced coworkers now, where it's like the roles have switched. It's fascinating.

Kristin: 15:14

I want to talk about corporate politics and having to navigate that. And I know that truly you could pick from any job, but the job that's coming to mind for me right now is when COVID was happening and you were crazy pregnant. Yes, and you were having to go into the office and our sister died.

Kenzie: 15:31

So the first my first experience with bereavement was when our dad died. When I was working at Pier One, and it was like that was my first true like, oh, I'm an adult now, I need to think about these things. And it was like our bereavement policy is three days for a parent or sibling, basically parent, sibling or child. I know. And then and then it like there's tears. It's like, how important is the person? And that depends how many days you get. That was my first experience of being like, excuse me, you get to determine how important number is that it's to me. That's weird. Um, and then yeah, our sister died. Pandemic, pregnant, very pregnant, going into an office every day. I was in the office the day that she was missing, and I like was expected to just be like, I'm gonna work. What? Um, and then I experienced that bereavement policy and I like evaluated that. That's when I really started to get into like HR policy. It was kind of weird, like a weird way for me to be like, I don't like this, and therefore I'm gonna need to dedicate my life to changing it. Another thing about that was that because I was so pregnant, I had to save up for leave. Like there's oh so I couldn't give up PTO because I wanted every single second. That's so much to think about. Yeah, so even with bereavement and her service, which it was COVID, so it was like outdoor literally at an ice cream shop outside. Yeah, and it honestly it was perfect for her, but like it wasn't even a real like a year and a half before we were having her dad's at like an actual funeral home. And so everything was weird, and I was so pregnant, and that was also causing stress on me. And then because of that whole scenario, I started to go into preterm labor, but I still refuse to use my PTO. So I have photos where I'm in a hospital bed with my laptop because I'm like, no, I will work from this hospital bed. I would tell nurses, like, hey, I need 30 minutes, I have to interview somebody. And they they would like put a sign on my door. And that's where I get into like the the emotions. I don't feel good about this because I'm like, how how am I gonna pull this person away from their job to come work for this company that's having me interview you from a hospital bed? Like, yeah, like I don't feel great about this. So that that all came to a boiling point because I was also being stubborn, like I was not gonna use PTO.

Kristin: 17:57

I mean, it's just such a good example of the way that like work can just completely collide into your life. Like we cannot get out of it, we cannot keep them separate. That's not a thing in the world. So let's pivot. You went on to work for another company based out of Texas.

Kenzie: 18:14

It was a tech company, I learned all kinds of weird shit. Yay! That job had a New York office. That's how I made it up here to be with you. And that is how you and your little family and our mom. I always have to say this separately, so it doesn't seem like everyone moved together into the same house. Iconic way, yeah. Um, but like mom, and then also your family moved up here to the northeast to New Jersey, and you got to work for that company out of the New York office while you got um up and running in New York. And like I saw myself staying there a lot longer than I did, um, and just I got poached and it happens. Um, so you got another job. It was also recruiting. Then you got the you the experience that um just about everyone has at some point in their career, and that is that you got laid off. I did. I got laid off. That was traumatizing to say the least. And yeah, I really feel for that. I feel like growing up, our dad got laid off a couple times. He did. It felt like a lot, I guess, because we were young and it just like that I didn't under I didn't have a concept, but ultimately he really only did work for like three companies, but he got laid off twice. I don't know. I remember, yeah. I remember being a little bit older and him getting laid off. So I don't know. I guess in my mind, I was like, well, my dad got laid off and we were fine. I think our parents did a good job of hiding money issues from us. They really did, actually. So I I feel like they did a good job of being like, everything's fine. We have groceries, we have a house, chill out. And so I I got laid off in a in an email at three o'clock in the morning. And it was rough. Really bad, really bad job market. That was a big pivot moment of questioning my career choices because I had hired a lot of people. Um, I had Them out. I sold them on this incredible opportunity and now they were unemployed. And I lost a lot of sleep over that. Yeah. Like I would I would lay awake at night being like, this is my fault. So I that's when I started to be like, I just don't know. I don't know if I want to do this. And I was like, whatever, like persevere. I, you know, tried to do some consult, I did do some consulting, but when I did it with a business partner, that was a whole separate mess. But it was that's that's where it started to grow. The like internal, just like, oof, starting, this is starting to ick me a little bit. And I'm gonna have to either move past it or move on. But this is the whole career that I've built. So how do you just walk away from it? Um, and then eventually when the unemployment ended and I just I was hired somewhere else, I was like, oh, I'm so silly. Everything's fine. I just needed a job. Honestly, the way that that sometimes is true, and then also sometimes it somehow gets worse. But that is, yeah, that's an important note to people too.

Kristin: 21:03

Is like it is so, so easy for what you believe and build up in your mind to be an absolute dream job can turn into a nightmare. Yeah. In the blink of an eye. Like a nightmare beyond belief. You came out of your unemployment, you got a role that was the dream.

Kenzie: 21:26

It was the dream. Um, which honestly, when I first got it, I was just glad to have a job. It wasn't until I got into it that I was like, oh, this is a dream. I could really make a difference. This is a high impact role. I had a team, my team was amazing. It was just cool. But it was also a simulation. There were so many days that I was like, this can't be real. In the last like year, I'd say, I my feelings that I had two, three years ago were cemented in a way that I was like, I have done what I can from the inside. That's not the impact I want to have. Like, there's only so much change that can happen from inside of one company. The last like year is just when I was like, okay, those feelings I had a few years ago, now they're like they're confirmed. And as you know, once something gets confirmed in my brain, it's gonna happen. Like you can't stop it from happening. So I left that whole career of recruiting in town acquisition and corporate HR. Not saying I'll never go back to it, but as of the summer, I don't want to do that anymore.

Kristin: 22:38

And and you're in the middle of a big pivot. What is your huge announcement pivot?

Kenzie: 22:44

I'm going to law school. Yeah, I'm gonna be a lawyer, which is something I've considered for a long time, and now I'm doing it.

Kristin: 22:53

I mean, you're gonna be the perfect lawyer. And say this with so much actual love and actual admiration. You're a crazy bitch. I am a crazy bitch. I love those things on Instagram that are like, it's gonna work because I'm literally insane. I love it. I believe in you because you got that.

Kenzie: 23:11

I'm like, I've always been legal adjacent and I've always been very just curious. Like, that's something I've always been passionate about. It's like, what is the law and how is it interpreted in different areas by different people, by different sides? But I just genuinely like learning about the law. And last November I filed for divorce pro se, self-represented. I it started off by me just being stubborn and wanting to save money and being like, I can do this myself, it's fine. But it was interesting to me. That's not to say I'm going to law school for family law because absolutely not. Sure. But it was fascinating to me. And through other personal experiences, I got really, really close hand looks at the law and procedures and meetings and prep and documentation, which if you're in HR, documentation is huge. So like I already knew that. So I just got a really, really, really against my will, close look into a lot of different things pertaining to the law. And I was like, this is the side I want to be on. I don't, I don't want to be on the HR side or the recruiting side. I want to be on the the law side. And there's laws that I would like to change. And there's women that I would like to support and represent and fight for. And that feels like a better use of my time and a better use of my career. So I would rather do that. So yeah, I I haven't worked in a few months. That's been intentional. I called it intentional unemployment. And I sit for the LSAT in January, and then I'm off to law school. Huge announcement. Congratulations for making the decision and like just fucking doing it.

Kristin: 25:00

Yeah. On that note, I'm gonna switch gears. Yeah, and we're gonna do the lightning round. I'm so excited. This is a list of questions that every guest answers, and I don't want you to overthink it. So just whatever comes to mind.

Kenzie: 25:14

I I will, I'm so excited, but I must call out that. When our mother was a guest, she called me beforehand and she was like, I'm sorry, I'm prepping for the lightning round. So something tells me she got the questions in advance.

Kristin: 25:27

I sent you the questions in advance.

Kenzie: 25:28

Ah shit, I forgot to read them again. I'm ready. I'm ready. Lightning round.

Kristin: 25:33

Okay, lightning round. What was the very first job you had and what did it teach you about work?

Kenzie: 25:39

Abercrombie kids standing at the front, spritzing perfume and saying hi. You did do hi. That was actually my first job. Did that job teach you anything about work? Uh keep being hot, I guess. I don't know. If you don't look good, they'll stick you in the stock room. Wow. That was a big lesson in like pretty privilege. That's real. Yeah. So it was like, okay, well, better look good. I'm not gonna wear makeup because I want to be in the stock room. So Uno reverse on you, bitch. Brilliant.

Kristin: 26:10

What is one thing you believed about careers when you were younger that you definitely don't believe now?

Kenzie: 26:15

That it's just a steady. Yeah. That it's just you start here and you just boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, and then retire. Yeah. That comes from our parents, for sure. I mean, they did have really stable careers. Extremely stable. Same industry, same, like they went to college and they got their degree, and then they worked with that degree, and that was that. And therefore, I believe that to be a thing. And every time I've switched, I've been like, ooh, I'm starting from scratch and I'm a failure.

Kristin: 26:41

Yeah, it definitely makes every time I've made a pivot, I'm like, well, I'm the worst. What is the best or worst piece of advice you've ever gotten?

Kenzie: 26:50

I think the it's the same thing as what I believed a career to be was like, you have to stay in one thing and just keep going. Yeah. Um, you know, that's how you retire. That's how you reach that dream. And that feels like terrible advice. And then I'm sure I got a lot of good advice, but I don't remember it because I probably didn't listen to it.

Kristin: 27:10

I'm just actually really glad that someone finally gave me the worst advice they've got. What is your career armor? That little thing that you reach for when you need comfort at work. This could be like food or an outfit, or

Kenzie: 27:23

um, it's neither. It's my sense of humor. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. The actual building could be on fire, and I'd be like, good guys and get a day off. Like, it has to be a sense of humor. Jokes save everything. Jokes save everything, and so do late afternoon iced coffees. I don't know why I used to be so scared of them.

Kristin: 27:41

Oh, when I am out in the world, I'm three coffee Kristen and oh, they are my favorite. I had a strict 2 p.m. cutoff for years, years. And now if someone hands me an iced coffee at 4 p.m., I'm down. What is your most embarrassing work story?

Kenzie: 27:56

I was on a work trip and very humid climate, and the zipper on my dress like wouldn't, it was like it got stuck, uh-huh, but like in the middle of a dinner. And I'm like in the bathroom with a coworker being like, Can you just zip it up? It's fully stuck. It will not zip. I borrowed someone's jacket, it was fine, except that I was wearing a fleece zip up jacket in Miami, and it was hot, and of course, like it turned into a whole thing, and the whole time I'm sweating, like I'm dripping sweat because I can't take the jacket off. Wow. Yeah.

Kristin: 28:35

Fixing typos in casual communication.

Kenzie: 28:37

Jesus Christ. How did I know this was gonna be on your lining round? Of course it is. This is a hot button topic. Continue with the lining round question.

Kristin: 28:44

No, that is the question.

Kenzie: 28:46

Do I fixing typos in casual communication? Yes or no? Yes. Yes. Here's the thing that I've learned. As your future attorney, I must tell you, everything you text or email could be read by a judge in a public setting. Do you want the wrong version of your to be read in a courtroom?

Kristin: 29:09

I always fix the ones that make me look stupid. It's just more like if it's like, if I'm still in like you and it's Y I O, or like sometimes, like sometimes my thumbs be fat. And then my autocorrect doesn't do it.

Kenzie: 29:22

Yeah. And then some lawyer online is gonna be like, she was drinking. Wow, okay. Well, now I'm convinced. Now I'm scared everybody. No, but I we've had this conversation before because you're an oldest child who's like, decode my message, bitch. And I'm a youngest child who's like, I hope they didn't read that in the 0.25 seconds before I could click the edit button and fix it. I'm like, I will not have people thinking I that I can't stop.

Kristin: 29:45

And for context about this debate, though, we started this debate before right before iMessages could be edited. That is true, but I would do the asterisk. I know you would, but like that was back then back then was my typo Wild West.

Kenzie: 30:00

I will blow up yo shit with asterisks. Like you'll have four or five asterisks coming after being like, yeah, that one is rough a lot of typos. I love that for you.

Kristin: 30:09

One last final question. What would your advice be to someone who feels off track right now?

Kenzie: 30:15

Oh God, stay off. I am a little bit woo-woo these days. I think if the universe is making you feel like you're off track, you're supposed to be off track. Like you're even if it feels really uncomfortable and you're like, what the hell am I supposed to do? You're probably supposed to be off track. And like it's gonna work itself out. Like, just do the mental work to figure it out. Like, do the whatever, whatever your life incorporates, whether it's whether it's like meditation or working out or whatever, like figure it out, but you're probably supposed to be off track.

Kristin: 30:51

That's beautiful advice. A perfect way to end this. Thank you so much for being here. Bye. Bye. There's so much that I want to say about this interview. It's, you know, family and I know the intersections of life that happened at the intersections of work. And there's so much to reflect on. But there's something she said specifically as a recruiter that really hit me when she talks about recruiting across industries and that at the center of recruiting is a human. And specifically when Kenzie says something about the way that people talk about their work, like maybe they're shy, maybe they would be an introvert in most cases, but they typically can go on and on about their work because that's the thing that they're an expert in. It just reminds me that behind every interview, behind every job is a human who knows what they're doing, one, who has a whole life, two, and who just wants a job. Three. I think there's vulnerability in that. And I think if we remember that all of us have been there, all of us will be there. And of course, there's a lot of other bullshit and bad actors, but most of the time, it's a person who wants to make a change in their life, who wants a job on the other end of this conversation. And it's a real reminder that we all have shared experiences and shared goals. Thanks for listening to everything counts, but nothing is real. Remember, even when nothing feels real, everything you do counts. Capitalism may be absurd, but so are we. And on that note, well, it's been real. Don't forget to subscribe. I'm Kristen. See you next time.