Everything Counts

Sara: Say it, then do it.

• Kristin • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Say it, then do it.

In this episode, Kristin sits down with Sara (she/her), a longtime friend and education leader whose career has been shaped by ambition, follow-through, and a deep belief in joy as a leadership practice. From nearly two decades in education nonprofits to earning multiple master’s degrees, getting married, and landing a new role as Dean of Student Life (all at once) Sara shares what it really looks like to set a goal and see it through.

They talk about ambition without burnout, the importance of good benefits (“the bennies”), sneakers as career armor, and what it looks like to lead with joy in schools and in life. It’s a reminder that you don’t have to have it all figured out, you just have to say what you want and then do the work to make it real.


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Kristin:

Welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real, a podcast about careers, detours, and the absurdity of work. Here we explore the twists, the pivots, and the tiny choices that shape our work lives with humor, feminism, and honesty. I'm your host, Kristen. Let's get into it. Hello and welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real. Today's guest is a former coworker turned close friend who inspires me with a lot of things because no one is better at giving an interview on behalf of an organization. No one is more ambitious but also hilarious. And no one has more master's degrees. Sarah, she her, is a seasoned education leader with more than a decade of experience building programs that empower students and strengthen school communities. A proud native of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, now based in New York City. She has served in a range of leadership roles from nonprofit program management to her current position as Dean of Student Life at a New York City charter school. She holds two master's degrees and is known for her boundless energy, ambition, and belief in the power of education to transform lives. Welcome, Sarah. Oh my God, I'm so happy to be here. Yay! My very first question is simply give us a little overview of your career.

Sara:

I've basically worked in education nonprofits, I would say starting in 2006. So about 20 years. You know, I've been in the dirt with the kids, with the families, with the with the staff. Yeah, I've been doing a lot everywhere.

Kristin:

Okay. Well, my cat is climbing up here. Oh my gosh. So many claws. So many. I don't know what to do. Why do you love her so much? Oh my gosh, so many claws. Oh, it's kind of cute and also terrifying. Okay. Thank you for that overview. And also sorry. Let's start with how we met. We met at City Air.

Sara:

We did.

Kristin:

A little lifetime ago?

Sara:

Yeah. Uh when you started City Air, I remember your very first time meeting me. You hadn't started yet, but you came to a service event.

Kristin:

Oh, yeah, I know.

Sara:

Um, and it was a service event at my school in East Harlem. And I just had not had a good day. Like it was a morning. I was late. I was upset. It was like, hi, this is Kristen. She's gonna be like the new vivo. Um and I was like, hi, nice to meet you. And this, you know, I was there and you were like, Oh, okay, bye. Um, and it was like a really quick interaction, but I was like, I I was probably really mean to that girl, but I don't care. But I think our first true interaction was the day you came back to the exact same school, and the core members had like brought me to a place. Sometimes, like American members, you will take your manager and your director to new levels of frustration. And that was my day with this particular team. And the last thing I said to them was like, get out. I don't want to see you. I was like, I don't want to see you all until tomorrow. And then the door is like open because Kristen is there, and she was like, Oh, okay. And I'm like, I'm so sorry, but they just really upset me. And they really did, but like Kristen had so many like negative first impressions of me. And then one day she asked me for something, and I was like, Oh, yeah, I can help you. That's easy. And we were friends. I think you like probably thought, like, oh my god, she's crazy. But I'm super crazy, but in a good way. Yeah. Because like our interactions were just like, Sarah's having a bad day, but I promise you, I'm a good person. And you learn that, which most people do.

Kristin:

I feel like I I just like had a sense that you're a good person, but I also was like, I'm gonna just not get in her way.

Sara:

Yeah.

Kristin:

I want to go back to that first day because I feel like that day, that event is a really great example of how crazy the shit that you've you dealt with there is. I remember someone broke their leg that day.

Sara:

Oh yes. There's always an injury happening at a service day. I had somebody like slice a hand open once, like on a paint can, because they didn't want to use a paint key. They decided to use a pocket knife.

Kristin:

And yeah, as soon as we like started to bond, I quickly realized you were one of my greatest assets in fundraising and communications because you can tell a story.

Sara:

I am the biggest bullshitter uh at City Ear New York at the time. I love to talk about the good work that City Year does. I love Corpverse. It was probably one of the best experiences I had that ended up being a 10-year experience. And if you want me to talk about it and all the good things that come from it, absolutely. I'll talk to you for 15 hours. But make sure you write that check out to City Year, though, because we need that money.

Kristin:

I want to talk about how you have two master's degrees that you got kind of recently. And I want to know sort of what inspires you to keep learning and how you like stay hungry for that growth.

Sara:

So I always knew I wanted to get an MBA. I just think that that was something that was a goal. My mom has an MBA. Um, she's an accountant, so I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to do that kind of math and numbers. But I got the first master's because I wanted to do something that interested me that would help me get back into school. And it was just something interesting that kind of like got my feet wet, but it was something I knew I couldn't fail at. Uh so I got a Master's of Public Service from the Clinton School of Public Service at the University of Arkansas. And, you know, it was just something that I thought that I have practical experience with this. I work in public service through AmeriCorps and I'm good at it. I was really, I knew I was good at my job. And I'm very good at my job. And I was like, why am I not getting a piece of paper that shows that I'm good at my job? Like, you know, how, you know, a diploma says you were good at being a student in high school. A bachelor's is like you were good at like that first level of like true rigor. When we get that master's degree, that's like she knows what she's talking about. It was fun, it was interesting, it was a hybrid program, and I got to do things like data, which I'd never actually done before. That was like a new place for me to like discover how I can use the simple data that I have while working at City or in AmeriCorps and turn it into something that could be really important and fruitful for like student success and you know, like core member progress towards the student success. So that was really fun. I think it was a really good experience for me because one, I learned how to learn in an academic space that was not a bachelor's degree, that was a master's level. You're holding me accountable to real things and like not holding my hand, um, which was really great before I got the MBA. And I decided to end my master's program in May of 2022, is when I graduated, um, and then start a new master's program in August of 2022, um, which was partly for me. If I wasn't gonna do it then, I wasn't ever gonna do it. Um, and I think the drive was like, this is the time in my life where like I know I have it. Because, you know, I my husband now, who's my boyfriend at the time, I was like, we're gonna be serious. What if we get married, have kids? What if I get another job? Because that's always something I wanted to do. And this was the sweet spot that this is it. Like the drive and the determination is actually a matter of just like time and getting it done. Would I been able to do it mentally and like saying, Am I smart enough to do it? I'm always gonna be smart enough to do it. But the time and the place was perfect that if I do it now, this will pay off, pay dividends later. Um, and it did because one of the things that I thought about City Year was a 10-year journey. And I said, I'm getting an MBA, I'm going to graduate in May 2025. I don't want to be here in June of 2025. And I said that when I started it, and I told a lot of people, I was like, I'm going to leave. And then when you say it, you gotta do it. You gotta stick to it. And then I graduated and I had another job the week after I graduated, and it was in May of 2025. So like it's a matter of time. Like I said I was gonna do it and I did it.

Kristin:

You did, and it worked.

Sara:

Like no one had to call it. No one had to call my bluff. Like, no, like I I I talk big game to everybody in emails on a recorded Zoom call.

Kristin:

What's funny is I never doubted you. I was like, yeah, obviously, that's when you'll be done. That's when he'll move on. Yeah. But you know, during this time, you were doing the most. You were getting a master's degree and working full-time and getting fucking married. Yep. How did you balance it all?

Sara:

Uh, I balanced it. I'm not even gonna say I did it well at all times. Um, if you look at some of my, you know, some of my homework that it turned in, I'm really sorry to some teachers that I just I slapped. Like one presentation I started with like I 100% do not recommend getting married, looking for a job and completing an MBA all in the same month. Like, that's how I started the presentation. It was hard. Um, I think I dropped the ball in some places and like some relationships, um, some areas of work and some area of a school. Um, but I had to figure out a way to like compartmentalize that because that's okay. Because like in human nature, in life and in work, everything cannot be a priority at the same time. I just happened to have three really big priorities at the same time. Um, and just learning to like balance it, I think I came out okay. If anything, I would probably not have been looking for a job at the same time. I think that was the one that was probably the lowest priority. But because I told everybody else I needed a new job, I had to do it. I love the when I got married, where I got married. So like I would never replace that. I love, you know, my cohort that I have in my MBA. So I'm I'm super thankful that that was the time that it happened. But man, I was stressed, I was broke, I was doing a lot of things. Um, I would not recommend doing all three. I recommend doing two. Two of two out of the three, feel like two out of the three, whichever ones like feel good for you, yeah, do those two. But I did all three and I would have dropped the job search. But I talked a lot of games, so I had to back it up. So I had to do the job search.

Kristin:

And like amazing that you did actually do all of the things.

Sara:

I did all of it. I got married, I graduated, and I got a new job. And it worked out because I am her. She is me.

Kristin:

So if it were me and I had just done all of that at one time, I would currently be like maybe bored or lost in space. How are you doing post all of those achievements?

Sara:

It's interesting to say, like, I got married, because I'm also somebody who never thought that I would, but I knew that I wanted to marry my husband, right?

Kristin:

Love that.

Sara:

He's the person that, oh, I get it. Like, that's my person. That's my lobster. You know? Yeah. Um, and I think it's really interesting because we are doing a lot of the same things we did before. It's just now like the government knows. Um I'm trying to figure out like when it becomes like a big thing, but I also don't want it to become a big thing. I want it just to still be like the seamless, like, that's my guy right there. Like we're we're just having fun. Like we're we're we're still we're still vibing. Um on the school front, I'm really happy that I'm done with school. It was a lot to go into an MBA program as somebody who has zero business background. I'd worked in nonprofits and education my entire career. Um, I was a history major. So I had a lot of imposter syndrome. I still have a lot of imposter syndrome, saying that I have an MBA and I like I don't do finance. I don't, you know, run a business, but I have a skill set that I think worked really well, specifically because my MBA was an MBA in sustainability. Um I do care a lot about the planet and how we're leaving it for the next generation and the generation after that. And also, an MBA just looks cool too. It does, it's sounds so dope. Like, yeah, my name is, you know, hey, I'm Sarah. I got an MBA, I got an MPS. Uh, it's like a it's a flex, you know? It's like um, you know, black women are like the most educated people in the country. We're going to flex that, you know? You you must. We must. Absolutely. You know, my mom has like four degrees. I was like, what? And I was like, I get it. She has four degrees. I always thought that was crazy. And now I'm walking around with three.

Kristin:

I feel like you maybe the next step is like an executive time. You know, those like programs.

Sara:

I think that's I think that would be like my next thing. Um, I think one of these days I'm going to end up like leading an organization.

Kristin:

Hell yeah.

Sara:

Or like I might have a friend that might want to start a charter school. I've never been a classroom teacher for like a long period of time. I was a classroom teacher for like a year and it was not my jam.

Kristin:

I did not even know that you'd ever. Oh, yeah.

Sara:

I was a classroom teacher and it was girl though.

Kristin:

What were you teaching and where? And why? I'm just kidding. What were you teaching?

Sara:

No, no, no. So when I first moved to New York, I was in the Episcopal Service Corps. It was advertised for the New York program as an American program. I had just done two years in America, and I was like, I've already run out of the Americor Award, but they're gonna pay for me to like come to New York City. So like I had free housing, I had a Metro card paid for, I had automatic food stamps, uh, they paid for health insurance, and we got a stipend. I was like, yeah, I'm coming to New York City because whatever. My placement was at a charter school in Brooklyn for overage students that were also undercredited. So I had like 20-year-old sophomores that were like, they didn't want to get a GED. They actually wanted a real high school diploma, which is like super cool because like a lot of people get to a place where they're like, I can't go back to high school. I'm too old, I'll get a GED. But these were students who may have, you know, had some missteps within their education. Some of them have like been like incarcerated a little bit, just going through circumstances of, you know, God knows what. But they were like, no, I want an actual high school diploma. And like some of them went on, they got the high school diploma, some of them went to junior colleges, community colleges, some like four-year universities. And it was just like really cool to see that. But that year that I was there, boy, was I not ready to go from Baton Rouge, Louisiana to Brooklyn, New York at 24 years old. I got my ass handed to me every single day. And I'm like, I'm crying on the F train because like the school is deep Brooklyn and I live all in the 155th.

Kristin:

Oh my god.

Sara:

And just wow, yep, I taught career choices. I'd be like, we can work on our resumes, we can talk about the different things that we like and our interests, and how do we find a career? Kids came, kids didn't, they tried. I wasn't gonna fail them for not showing up because like you're 20 years old trying to get your diploma after whatever happened in your life. Yeah. My class is not gonna be the thing that's gonna keep you from getting that diploma. I was not gonna be the person that's gonna hold back somebody who's trying to do better in their life. You know, it was a learning experience of just, you know, perseverance because it was something I never had to deal with before. I was in a sixth grade classroom when I was in City here as a core member, you know, sweetest little kids all the time. Yeah. And then I go to Brooklyn and I was like, wow, this is different. We're not in Kansas anymore. I've never been to Kansas, but we're not in Kansas anymore.

Kristin:

Definitely not. And they're adults, you know, like much older. And they've seen some things.

Sara:

Yeah, I had I had some experiences that shaped who I am as like I consider myself like a New Yorker now. Uh people say, oh, you have to be in New York 10 years. I've been in New York longer than 10 years. But I think like I passed that threshold, but I also like passed the pressure test of living in New York City. Cause it's like, man, I knew that I knew the day that I was in New Yorker was when I was on the bus and like I was at my stop and the door wouldn't open. I'm like, back door! I was like, oh, I live here now. Right? Like little things like that. Like getting yelled at by like, you know, my students and then crying on the F-train about it, but then like, oh, actually, I'm I'm still gonna go out drinking tonight and like find a new bar in New York City that's cool and you know, do all those things. But yeah.

Kristin:

You've also like, because of the work you've done, you've seen more of New York.

Sara:

Yeah.

Kristin:

Most people have not been to Staten Island or the Bronx or deep Brooklyn, and you've seen it all.

Sara:

Yeah, I had a job that had me on Staten Island like two days a week. I've been like to the Bronx where I'm like, are we still in New York City right now? Because this is like deep, deep, almost was that West, was it Westchester? I don't know. Whatever the part of it is. I don't know. In Brooklyn, like, oh, this is where the train ends, but I still need to be on the bus 30 more minutes to get to where I gotta go. So I've seen a lot of parts of New York City, which I'm actually like really I'm grateful for because I think New York is awesome to be able to just like see how New York changes, you know, drastically every like 10 minutes if you're like driving somewhere.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Sara:

And that fascinates me that the culture here borders a culture there. That is the people are here, and this neighborhood used to look like this 40 years ago. And like, you know, it's just it's it's a great city. And like people say New York is a melting pot. Like, nah, it's it's a melting pot of just like cool shit and cool people and cool experiences. And like, don't be scared of New York because like it's cool, it's fun. Mind your business. Like, don't do anything you shouldn't be doing, and you'll have a good time.

Kristin:

Yeah, and like the people everywhere you go are amazing. Just amazing.

Sara:

Yeah, don't be an asshole and everybody's cool.

Kristin:

Just be cool, just be cool. That's the rule in New York. This is my perfect segue into um my special interests, which you know, like are about astrology and birth order and and like how you grew up. How do you feel like that shaped you into your career path?

Sara:

I think the fact that I am a Virgo is very important to who I am in my career, in my personal life. Everything about me is very Virgo. And I'm also a Capricorn y in what way?

Kristin:

Yeah. So you share, we have the same rising and moon science.

Sara:

Yes.

Kristin:

We're both Capricorn Rising and Sagittarius Moon. And I do think that is one why we understand each other, and two, the ambitious part.

Sara:

Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm like, oh, that's a thing. We'll do the thing.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Sara:

I don't know how I'm gonna do the thing, but I'll do the thing. I'll check back with you. Uh-huh. Um, and I think we both fully like embody that like, well, what are they doing? Like, they're doing it. Don't worry about it. It will be done, and they will tell you how awesome it is that they did it. Um, but also I think my birth order is very important to you, because I am the youngest and the only girl. So I have two older brothers who are 10 and nine years older than me. So it's a large gap. I think like part of that, it just informs how I view the world in like a cultural sense. I'm actually like very much Gen X, even though I'm millennial, because I had like these two older brothers that, like, yeah, Michael Jordan. They're very like hype on that, and just like, yeah, like let's put a tape in the tape deck. Like, they're very I love my brothers for like my brothers are like in their 40s, like late 40s now, almost 50. And like, oh wow, like I grew up with old people in the house. And my parents are also like, by like my time I was born, like, they were older parents. They were in their like mid to late 30s when I was born. So I grew up with a lot of old people. Um shout outs of my mom and my dad.

Kristin:

I don't you think that probably I maybe I could be wrong, but don't you think that probably shaped your ability to like be such a good conversationalist? Yes. And you're like a round grown-up.

Sara:

Yes, like I think my personality is a coping mechanism for how I was raised. Because like my mom is just zinger after zinger after zinger. And it's like, if you don't keep up, you will drown. Um like I like to think that I'm the smartest person in the room until she walks in the room and just like, oh, okay, well, that I had a good run, guys. Um, but I think that that actually helps my ability to talk to people, um, to hold conversations, to actually try to form meaningful relationships with people. Because also the thing is like I was raised by two people who were African American college students in the early 70s in Louisiana, right? So, like my mom knew that she wanted to go to the college she went to because her like best friend's older sister was one of the first black people that went there. So, like my parents just have stories, right? Um, and they've lived lives, and like I got to grow up with them. And I think that's really, really fascinating that the people that raised me and like my brothers, the lives that they've lived, like I am equal parts, all of them, but somehow my very own person because of them. They did the Things they did, they lived the places they lived to make sure that my brothers and I had specific lives that like we would all be proud of. Um, and I'm very proud of like how my parents raised me and how I am as a person and how I'm able to like go into spaces. Like I'm from Batners, Louisiana, but hey, I'm your teacher in this school in Brooklyn. I do not know anything about New York outside of Sesame Street, home alone too, and hate Arnold. But guess what? We are here, okay? And like that's just what I got. And we're gonna figure it out because my parents taught me how to figure it out. And they taught me how to make sure, you know, like you're gonna be okay in the world. Just you gotta just try it, you know? Don't be scared.

Kristin:

When you think about the students you serve, what do you most want them to learn from watching you?

Sara:

You can have fun. I wanna make sure that every child knows that like life is actually very fun. People say life is hard, and it is, but if you can infuse joy into the most mundane of activities, you've won that day. I was in the gym observing a PE class, and two kindergartners were like fighting, you know, as much as kindergartners can, you know, like slap boxing, putting their hands on each other, and it got to a place where like by the time I stepped in, they were now crying. And it's like, well, he hit me. Well, she hit me. And I was like, What? Well, one, we shouldn't have had our hands on each other, so we have to think about that. We need to apologize for hitting our friends. And then, you know, they were like kind of like, okay, we get it. But I was like, we don't, we don't not going back to the group yet because we need to we need to take a second, take a beep. And you know, just like a quick game of like, we don't like to put our hands on each other, right? But we're our hands at. Show me your hands, right? Then we played like a five-minute, you know, sing song of head, shoulders, knees, and toes to make sure these are the things we touch on our bodies. But we don't touch them on other bodies, other bodies. Where's our head? Where's our shoulders? Our knees are toes. And we were having a good time, and then I let them back because I didn't want to let them back into the space, like sad that one, they were hitting each other, so they were sad about that. And two, they kind of got in trouble because I was the one that told him. I need the kids to like be like, it's okay. Yeah, you made a mistake, you you you hit your friend, you hit your classmate, but we're still gonna have fun, and I'm still gonna let you back in the activity. And I just want kids to know like life is cool, life is fun, we're here, you know? We we live in the same time as Beyonce.

Kristin:

Think about that. Okay, flip side, what do students teach you every day?

Sara:

I think sometimes, a lot of the times actually, kids teach me how unsmart adults are in times. Um, it's kind of like like when you get outsmarted by a child and they're like, Yeah, I caught you. I'm like sometimes they'll catch me slipping, and I'm like, You got me, you got me. We think we're so big, right? We think we're we know everything, but we don't. And then like a kid like outsmarts you or sees you being that fun person when you're like, I'm trying to be serious, but actually no, and like they help me break character, they help remind me that like I used to be that small and like I don't know everything, but I had to learn everything that I do know.

Kristin:

Can you tell me about your current job? What does it mean to be the dean of student life?

Sara:

So, for my current current job, the dean of student life, um, I oversee a couple things. Uh, so I oversee all of summer programming, but I'm also in charge of all of after school. So that means I'm in charge of taking the kids across the street to go swimming, um, making sure that the kids are getting cycling. I also have an assistant dean of student life. It's not all me. This is a lot of work. And then like during actual school, I manage the two PE teachers, the art teacher and the music teacher. And recess. Oh my god, how do I got recess? Recess. Recess is recess is a thing. Like, as somebody who has never been like in charge of a recess program, I did not know what goes into recess.

Kristin:

Scheduling?

Sara:

Scheduling the people that are there, what space they're gonna be in, to have the right number of adults in the space because it's a large space that's shaped like this and need to be in certain quadrants. Girl, what? Like, so that's what I do. So recess, the the teachers who do like the enrichments after school and summer programming. That's kind of like what I do. So that's the student life aspect. One of the things that was like really important when I started this job was like creating like a culture amongst my staff because I manage about 40 part-timers.

Kristin:

Wow.

Sara:

Yeah, that's a lot of people. That's a lot of people. Um, so I have about 40 part-time staff members who come in to do recess and come in to do after school and work in the summertime as well. Um, so like creating a culture about them um and how they feel valued and how they feel seen. Um, because I want to like have like really good retention. I want to have like, you know, people that are happy to be at work. Um and like we just got the first round of staff surveys, and like some of them like mentioned me by name, and I'm like, oh, that's right. Yeah, I'm crazy, but I'm cool, you know? But I do I do really want everyone to feel welcome in the space. Like everybody needs to feel invested because one of the things that I heard like super early on is that every single adult in the school building is an educator. You might not be a teacher, but every person in that building is an educator and is responsible for that child and how that child learns. Bus driver, security guard, teacher, everybody. You are responsible because you're an adult and you work in a building. And I want everybody to feel that way, but also I want everybody to also, you know, feel like they belong in that space, whether they're a child or an adult. We just want everybody to come in and feel like this is gonna be a good day. Now, is it always a good day? No, no. I work in elementary school. It's not always a good day. Um, and that's for me and that's for the kids. But I want everybody to think that it's gonna be a good day. And I want everybody to think that even if you know by the middle of the day it's not a good day, we can leave the good day and we start over tomorrow.

Kristin:

Let's go to the lightning round. I know you're so excited for this round. So the lightning round is a set of questions that I ask all of my guests. Fast answers, no overthinking. What was the very first job you ever had, and what did it teach you about work?

Sara:

Very first job I ever had, age 14, I was a church musician. What?

Kristin:

They paid you?

Sara:

Yeah. I played the drums for the male chorus.

Kristin:

Wow.

Sara:

At age 14. I'm nice with it on the drums. I was a music education major for a hot while while I was in college. I had many, many majors. But yeah, my very first job, uh, I played drums for the men's chorus. Um, it was one, maybe two Sundays a month. I got a hundred dollars.

Kristin:

That's a lot.

Sara:

So even if I only worked one Sunday, I got a hundred dollars. Like an actual paycheck.

Kristin:

I was gonna say this W2. It wasn't like a $100 bill.

Sara:

No, it was it was a it was a paycheck with my name on it. My mom was like, I guess I gotta open this idiot a bank account. Um and like, man, when I tell you, I was balling at age 14. I got $100 a month. That's $1,200 a year. But what did that teach me about work? It taught me about showing up. Because if you didn't show up on Sunday, guess what you didn't get paid? Because like one time I literally showed up at church looking for my paycheck, but I had not gone to play drums. I was like sick that Sunday, but whatever. But like I didn't show up. They didn't have a drummer, I didn't get paid. And I was like, oh, it's I don't just get money because you said you were gonna give money every month. Like, no, idiot, you didn't go. Valuable. Valuable. Yeah. Yeah. Show up to get paid. Crazy concept.

Kristin:

What's one thing you believed about careers when you were younger that you definitely don't believe now? It's kind of sad, but at 22, I thought that hard work was enough. And it turns out it's not. I think we've all sat in spaces where we are working the hardest, we are the smartest, we're putting in so much more than other people, and we're not getting the promotions, we're not getting the assignments, we're not getting the school portfolios that we want. And just like the politics of work is so much more important than actual hard work. You know, I love a social capital situation. That's how I revolve in this world. But that that became really important to me once I realized like just being hardworking and then going home is not gonna cut it. You have to be personable, you have to talk to people and network with the ones you don't want to. You have to do so much extra. And like it sucks, but sometimes it's what's the best or worst piece of advice you've ever received?

Sara:

When I think about like in like the grand scheme of like careers, the best advice I've ever gotten was from my mom. So when I was in high school and in like college, I had braces, I had surgeries, I hurt myself, ambulances, all these things. I was I asked my mom, I think when I was maybe a sophomore at college, I was like, How did you pay for that? She's like, Sarah, I have insurance. I was like, okay, she's like, Sarah, the job, how much you get paid is important. The benefits are more important to be able to pay for like the braces that we're gonna be on for two years that we're on for five, the time that I dislocated my shoulder in a bounce house.

Kristin:

Oh my god.

Sara:

And I had to be taken in an ambulance, and she had to pay for that. She's like, the benefits are what's important, right? Like, what's what's the what's the retirement plan? How are all these things happening? Because, like, yeah, you will get money to pay for your life, but life is not just rent and food and like a car. That's kids, that's retirement, that's you know, if somebody breaks a bone. My mom calls it the bennies, and I think that's the most important thing. I I need good bennies.

Kristin:

Um, what's your career armor? And that's the little thing that you reach for that brings you comfort when you're at work. It could be like food, outfits, an attitude.

Sara:

Um, I think, I think it's my sneaker collection. Hell yeah. I think that's the best way that I can express myself. Um, so today uh I'm rocking the Sabrina 3s, the one for All Star Weekend. Um and I just I think that wearing shoes when you have to be business casual. And I'm like, okay, cool, my top part can be business, but the casual is gonna be on my feet and just expressing myself. I love an Air Jordan one mid. I have the calves for it, and I get clowned a lot because I wear mids. Um, I'm just saying if you can't wear a mid, that's because your body's not created for that, and that's okay. Um, but to me, it's like I am going to wear sneakers. You know I'm gonna wear sneakers.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Sara:

And like they're gonna be fun, they're gonna be comfortable, they they're gonna be exciting, they're probably gonna match my outfit. Um, and that just like makes me happy to be able to walk in and like express myself in that manner. Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna rock the sneakers because that makes me feel confident, that makes me feel happy, and that also makes me feel like that's that's Sarah. That's how you know it's Sarah. Because like if I'm wearing like some loafers, like, oh, what's what where are you going? What's the event?

Kristin:

Is there a funeral today? Is there a funeral?

Sara:

No, is there's our donor coming? I was like, how how much of a donor? You know?

Kristin:

Only I I really like to only deal with donors who appreciate a sneaker. I mean, I know we can't be turning around turning down donors, but I mean I'm I'm gonna take everybody's money. Simple as I'm I really hope that they appreciate a sneaker. For me, I'm gonna add to this though, and I wonder if it's the same for you. I also love a good shoe or a good piece of clothing to remind me why I work so hard.

Sara:

Yes. Well, do we want to talk about the time that we went to the store and I like peer pressure do you get into buying some very expensive shoes and then you return them?

Kristin:

I mean, that did happen, but I was like, these shoes, they weren't practical. They weren't practical. They were like platform sandals. Yeah. And it's because you also got me drunk.

Speaker 2:

I did. I did, but you willingly allowed it to happen. I also got drunk, but I wasn't drunk enough to buy like $2,000 sandals.

Kristin:

$200.

Sara:

Okay, whatever. I was drunk. I don't know the price.

Kristin:

They were too much for us being so impractical.

Sara:

Well, okay, we all can't just have a pair of Gucci loafers.

Kristin:

But see, when I wear my Gucci loafers, I'm like, yeah, this is why I work.

Sara:

I work hard so I can. I remember when you got those. I remember when you got those and you were like, look at these shoes. And I was like, those are hot. Like, you've made it.

Kristin:

You've made it. But it was like literally my one pair of thousand dollar shoes. Look, because it it was I ripped that band-aid off and then I was like, oh my god, this is a what am I doing?

Sara:

When you get the six-finger salary, it's like, oh, we here. You gotta treat yourself. You gotta treat, you have to do something stupid when we get the six-figure salary. When I when I finally got it, I was like, oh, you're gonna put me. Oh, didn't I buy anything? I think I just bought like a lot of small things that were like the Amazon cart emptied. Oh, yes. You know how you always keep a safe for later. I I I might have bought like all of it. You know, my Nike cart. It was like, oh, you got stuff in the bag. I got stuff in the bag. It's in the bag to go home now. Like, you know, I bought some things, um, but I don't think I've actually spent anything because I I just, you know, gotten married. So that was the most expensive thing I've ever purchased.

Kristin:

You really treated yourself for a wedding.

Sara:

My wedding was a time. It was a time.

Kristin:

And that's really the party of it all, is what's important.

Sara:

Yeah, it was.

Kristin:

Um, what's your most embarrassing work story?

Sara:

I don't know if you were there uh for it. Um I can't wait. Uh it was on a Zoom. It's a year.

Kristin:

Oh, I was there. Wait.

Sara:

The warm-up question uh what color are raspberries? Are raspberries um pink or are they red?

Kristin:

Yes.

Sara:

And everybody's like saying either pink or red. And I'm like silent because I was like, these people are stupid. And they were all just saying pink or red. And I come off mute on this recorded Zoom, and I was like, you all are dumb. Raspberries are more like black or blue. How stupid are you all? I was like, I should just like slap each and every one of you. I said some of the most heinous things to coworkers, and at this time there were like 80 of us.

Kristin:

This was an all-staff meeting.

Sara:

This was an all-staff meeting. I called every single person and their mother dumb on a call. And nobody would respond. They were just like stunned that I said it. And I was like, that's right. I shut all of you up. And then I go off, uh, I go off camera and I mute myself. And then I look it up and I was like, I can't wait to see that.

Kristin:

You came back on camera holding.

Sara:

No, I came up on back on camera holding like a my phone, like that's like a blackberry. And they're like, Sarah, that's a blackberry, not a raspberry. And then I went back off camera and I unmuted myself again. And then I was like, I'm sorry, y'all. I didn't know what a raspberry was. I thought a raspberry and like a blackberry and blueberry, I thought they were all the same thing. I don't eat any of those, so that's on me. Uh, I apologize for all the stuff that I've said. Um yeah, I'm gonna tap out on this one. And I've never participated in the warm-up class because I threatened to murder the staff. You called us all idiots. I called you all dumb. And like, but nobody like checked me on it. That was also my-fit.

Kristin:

Like, I wasn't I was in that meeting, and I remember being like, I actually don't understand what she's saying. Like, no one was checking you because it was actually just confusing.

Sara:

It was unhinged behavior.

Kristin:

I was like, what?

Sara:

Now that's what she's talking about. But like that's like because like we would do stuff like, is a hot dog a sandwich? And I'm like, no, it's not a sandwich. Like, let's end this now. Those kind of things. Yeah. But like that moment, I was like, these people are dumb. And I was so dumb and so wrong. And so loud. So loud. But then, but the part about me is I was wrong. Hey, y'all, I didn't know what a raspberry was. That's on me. I'll eat those. Um, but I do kind of think it's more pink. All right, but I also still had to give my further research. Still had to give my opinion after doing my list when you can't listen to people who do their own research because they're idiots. I've done my own research. Was it peer reviewed?

Kristin:

Let us all learn this lesson.

Sara:

Let us all learn this lesson to just be like, shut up when you don't know what you're talking about.

Kristin:

But you really thought that you did, and that's what matters.

Sara:

So right and so wrong.

Kristin:

Do you fix typos in casual communication?

Sara:

Yes.

Kristin:

I mean, yeah, for example.

Sara:

I think, I think I actually I when I was leaving my house to come here, I said uh head out now. And I was like, oh my god, that sounds like a command. I meant heading out now, and then I edited that.

Kristin:

I had like even though you knew I would understand.

Sara:

I knew you would understand, but like, what if you didn't and you thought I was yelling at you to tell you to come here and then got confused? And then left my house and then you came, well, and the cross paths somewhere on the on the path.

Kristin:

One final question for you. What would your advice be to someone who feels off track right now?

Sara:

There is no track at all. Just think of life as a treadmill on random.

Kristin:

On random.

Sara:

Yeah, when you do it, like random hills, yeah, runs, it doesn't matter, the speed changes. There is no track. Uh, you make it what you want it to be. If you manifest that you're gonna get out of that job in three years, you're gonna get out of that job in three years. And that means you're on track, but there is no track. Um it's we're all children cosplaying as adults. We no one knows anything. No one knows anything. The older I get, I'm like, wait, we're the adult, you let us in charge. Cool. Um, that means you guys had no idea when you were in charge. I get it. Um, but like, yeah, if you feel like you're off track, that's okay. Because like it's made up. Make your own situation manifest whatever you want in life. Go get the degree, go get the certification, drop out of college if you need to, take a break, break up with that person, move to another state. Whatever it is that you need to do, it doesn't actually matter what the next step is, just take the next step.

Kristin:

I just finished listening to the final cut of Sarah's episode, and I'm struck by several things. One, I'm cackling still at some of our end of the episode banter. I'm also always, anytime I think about Sarah, I'm struck by her ability to just do it. She comes up with a goal for herself and she achieves it. And I just gotta say, find yourself some friends who are fearless, who go after what they want and support them and let them support you. There is nothing more invigorating than having a friend like Sarah. And finally, I think Sarah really infuses joy into everything she does. It's something that you experience when you're around her, but she it really comes through in her interview that that's intentional. We don't have to take everything so seriously all the time. Things are allowed to be serious, but we're allowed to have fun in the middle of all of that seriousness, dance, laugh, sing, and again, find that joy. I think that I just really love everything that Sarah embodies when it comes to ambition, to showing up, to being yourself, and to being hilarious. Thanks for listening to everything counts, but nothing is real. Remember, even when nothing feels real, everything you do counts. Capitalism may be absurd, but so are we. And on that note, well, it's been real. Don't forget to subscribe. I'm Kristen. I'll see you next time.