Celia: People matter most.

People matter most.

In the Season 1 finale of Everything Counts (But Nothing Is Real), Kristin sits down with one of her closest friends, Celia (they/them), to reflect on careers, values, and the human relationships that shape our work lives. A feminist philanthropic advocate working at the intersection of gender, racial, and economic justice, Celia shares what it really means to “move money ethically” and why relationships, patience, and trust are central to lasting systems change.

They talk about a winding career path, several big moves, stumbling into fundraising, and learning how to operationalize big visions without losing sight of the people behind the work. 

From carrying rocks in their pocket as career armor to redefining what it means to be “on track,” this conversation is a grounded close to a season about careers, detours, and the absurdity of work and a reminder that, in the end, people matter most.

Transcript

Kristin: 0:03

Welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real, a podcast about careers, detours, and the absurdity of work. Here we explore the twists, the pivots, and the tiny choices that shape our work lives with humor, feminism, and honesty. I'm your host, Kristen. Let's get into it. Hello, and welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real. Today's guest is one of my closest friends. I wanted to close out season one with the remaining closest friend in my life. And so I have dragged them here, and I'm excited to dig into their career. Our work and our lives intertwine in a lot of ways. They're definitely smarter than me and better at their job than me, but nonetheless, someone I admire, and I'm so excited that they're here. Celia, they them, is a feminist philanthropic advocate working at the intersection of gender, racial, and economic justice. Their work spans organizations and movements across borders, where they help translate values into strategy and resources into real impact. A lifelong learner, Celia is an always growing leader, manager, and mentor, deeply committed to building systems that are more just, humane, and sustainable. Celia, welcome to the show.

Celia: 1:20

Thank you. A lot of pressure to be your final guest of season one.

Kristin: 1:25

No pressure. It's so normal. We're just hanging out in my living room with a mic in between us. I want to start with the now and then we're gonna go backwards in time. So tell me what you do for a living. Like what would you tell someone who doesn't know what you do for a living?

Celia: 1:41

Nicole, my partner, we're talking about this yesterday because my family during the holidays decided that they were done asking me about what it is that I do and they were going to instead as my partner about what it is that I do, in the hopes that I guess she would explain it better. And she said that she said something to them like, I work with donors to help them more ethically spend their money. And I was like, okay, we can we can work with that. That's a good framework. In terms of the philanthropic advocacy part at least.

Kristin: 2:12

Yeah. Do you feel like it's hard because you want to decenter? Well, one, you want to decenter yourself, and two, you want to decenter that idea that it's only fundraising. Is that why?

Celia: 2:25

I think I mean, and I definitely I don't like to talk about myself times a lot of it, but a lot of it is just that I think I have tried with my family specifically, I've tried many different ways of explaining to them what I do. And it's been difficult to like land the plane. There was one movie that my organization produced that my sister was finally like, oh, now I get it. It's about human rights and there's money involved. And you move money from place to place. And I was like, okay. That's actually pretty accurate. So we can go with that. I mean, yeah. But yeah. But I think my job is just so much about like relationship building and just working with people and sending a lot of emails and going to a lot of conferences and being on a lot of Zoom calls. And that is hard, I think, for people to be like, oh, this is that a real job that you this is actually like you make money doing things, getting money from other people to send money elsewhere, basically.

Kristin: 3:25

Yes. Also, one time when we both worked at the same organization, we planned like a panel discussion about philanthropy. And my mom was in town, so she came to the panel and watched it. And then later was like, okay, so they got to speak on that panel because they have a lot of money. And I was like, yeah. Sure. So it's like watching people's like wheels turn. Oh, good times. What is it in your in your work, your life? What is something that's keeping you going right now?

Celia: 4:10

When I was home the holidays, I got to be outside a lot. My family is like right out the back door. You're you hop on a trail. And just reminded me that I need more of that in my life to kind of keep going in 2026. In terms of just staying in touch with myself and with the world in ways that are not always super messed up.

Kristin: 4:31

Something I talk about a lot in my work is how it's easy to feel like disconnected from the big picture, disconnected from community, from the real life. When you work in philanthropy, when you work in global philanthropy, where it's like huge things are happening. It's large scale systems change, moving money around the world, but like you yourself are sitting in your apartment. Does that ever get to you?

Celia: 4:57

That's honestly why I feel like I need the work travel piece to like stay connected to the actual humans behind all the moving of the money around. Yeah, because it reminds you that the email you're sending could actually be very important. Yeah. Even though it's just an email.

Kristin: 5:12

Yeah, that Zoom call is real, even though it doesn't always feel like it. I want to go backwards in time and I want to talk about the foundations of you and your life and how you got here. And this is usually where I ask about astrology, birth order, home, family. What are the things that shaped you into who you are now?

Celia: 5:31

I'm an eldest child, and some ways very stereotypical in that I wanted to like leave home right away. When I was 18, I didn't want to come back and be in my hometown. I was also the one who was just always testing things. So I think when I was younger, I actually had more conviction of what I wanted to do. And maybe partly because I was the one who was like having to kind of lay the path. Um I feel like I actually, as I got older, I lost that a little bit. But it was definitely what like kind of pushed me. I mean, certainly pushed me to leave the Midwest, go to college on the East Coast, and then just kind of keep trying new things. Even when I wasn't always sure what I wanted or where I was going. Always like being like, okay, but it's just something else that I can do and I will figure it out. I think that's a very like eldest child syndrome. There's no path for you. You have to make it. Yeah. Actually, when I was home, I asked my middle sister, like, would you have we were talking about horseback riding. I was like, would you have done that if I had not done that? And she was like, no. Did she do it in the like middle child? Oh middle child. She did it like seriously like you did? Yeah. Okay. I mean, yeah, not as seriously. But yeah. But she like she was doing horse shows and like spending a lot of time on it. Almost as much as I was. But I was like, Yeah, but she was like, no, I wouldn't have. How did you decide what she would have done instead?

Kristin: 6:58

I would be so curious. But how did you horses? Did you just were you born that way?

Celia: 7:05

Like what sparked that interest? Ever since I could remember like five or six, I was like, oh, that like I love horses and I want to like be around them. And I think it was actually my mother, and she may have regretted this later. It was my mother who was like, oh, that's an interest we should cultivate. And then she was the one who was like, Celia should take riding lessons. Okay. So she had a friend who like knew somebody who was, I think, had a horse or was at a barn or something. So yes, it was actually my mother who sparked it. And then in a very classic fashion, it was my father who followed through on all of it. I was very grateful because it also ended up shaping a lot of who I was, because being around horses makes you very like curious about everything. Um because there you have to be like you have to be quiet and like pretty calm and like consistent and kind of just watch what they need or what they're looking out for in order for them to trust you. And so I think that actually has informed a lot of how I operate today in terms of how I interact with like people or like draw people out, or like whether they're in professional setting or like in a friend setting. I think it's I'm more of like a listener and a watcher, and like then I'll kind of jump in and like say something or like ask a question or like kind of see where things are going. And I think actually I learned a lot of that, like riding and also later training horses.

Kristin: 8:30

I never really thought about how that is very much a foundational piece for you that definitely would have shaped so much of how you approach life. There's also probably some kind of discipline in there. Yes.

Celia: 8:43

Yes, that is true. And that was part of being, I think, homeschooled too, which also shaped a lot of who I am now. So you have to be very much like a self-starter and somebody who will like set your own timelines, figure out your own goals, kind of decide, okay, like this is like my marker of success, even though maybe I don't have like a peer to like base it on, but like here's what I will think is something that I will define as like making progress. I think obviously any work with animals is like that because you have to kind of figure out what they need and where they're going. And it can be the same with humans too. I also used to do a little bit of teaching like small children riding. You couldn't like push people too hard. You had to be like, okay, like what are you ready for? And then that's like figure out how we can get there, as opposed to saying here is the ultimate goal, and we're just gonna like push until we reach that. It also means I'm honestly not particularly competitive, but it means perhaps that I'm more content than I would be if I was very competitive because I can say, okay, I'm satisfied that I reached this point because that's the point that I was aiming for. And I'm not worrying about kind of okay, like what that score of what somebody else got over there because I decided that I had my own version of what was going to mean I made it. That's insightful.

Kristin: 9:56

Like, really, really. I'm gonna latch onto that. Do you want to sidestep astrology or do you want to talk about your astrologer?

Celia: 10:04

No. You know you're the one who remembers it for me. Yeah. But maybe I've finally come around to remembering it. Let's see. Scorpio sun, Sagittarius moon, and Aquarius rising. Yes, you did it. You did it. I for a long time, as you know, I did not identify very much with my Scorpio side. But I don't know, on reflection, maybe it is partly what's kind of like pushed me a little bit to kind of have that inner drive that I have had, even though, even though I haven't always, as I said before, known exactly like, for example, with career, like what my career path would be. I always was like sort of looking for the next step and the next thing and the next thing that would be like interesting and fulfilling, basically. Yeah. Um, and so it's a very different version of drive. Like you look at my mother, who's I think a very classic, like she was like 12 and she was like, I'm gonna be a doctor. She became a doctor, she's now become in her context, a like very respected and like decorated doctor. And she's like very career-driven. Um and yeah, and so I haven't had that like very specific like vocation calling, if that makes sense. But I do have always had that kind of like, how can I be the best at what I'm doing? And that is probably something of the Scorpio.

Kristin: 11:27

Something I think that a lot of people think of Scorpios and they think of something very specific. And almost no one believes that you're a Scorpio when they meet you. But but there's a depth to a Scorpio, and it's your ability to like hold this undercurrent all the time feels very Scorpio to me. When you were a young adult, you moved from the Midwest, you went to school on the East Coast, and then you went to grad school in London. You want to talk about any of those transitions?

Celia: 11:57

I was an English major in college, and I was a little bit aimless. And the only thing I was sure I wanted to do right after college was like not living in the United States for a little while. And so at the time, I think I wasn't, I don't know. I I have gone back to my college, and there was once time I went on a Zoom call for them during the pandemic, and they were like, talk to people about what English majors can do as like a career path. And I was like, okay, now I can answer that. But when I was like, you know, 21, the only thing I could think of was something to do with books, and therefore I decided I would do a master's in publishing. But 75% of that was because it was in London, it was cheaper than the US, and it was a year-long program instead of a two-year program. Very efficient, cost effective, and it got me abroad. It turned out to be in terms of like unexpected benefits. Going to London prepared me for then landing in New York. Place where I come from is like 80,000 people. And then I was in college, and then I kind of jumped to London. Um, and in terms of like big cities to like try out first, London was quite good because some neighborhoods feel like little villages, but they're like still only, you know, 30, 40 minutes from the city center. And so it was actually a really good transition to be like, okay, I can be in this area. It's a little quieter and like less bustling. But if you get on my bike, I can, you know, bike 40 minutes to school through the center of London. And yeah, and just meeting a lot of new people and getting to also build some skills that I never used for publishing, but did turn out to be very helpful in the career path I ended up in. Because you know, building a business plan is not that different from building a fundraising plan. Yeah.

Kristin: 13:49

So a strategic plan as a strategic plan. Yeah. Do you feel like you were always someone who could just look at a map and move to another country? Did you have to cultivate that? Is that just in you?

Celia: 14:01

It didn't feel scary. It just felt like this is what I'm gonna do next. It'll work out. Like some there's some level of like trust involved. It's like stubbornness, trust, and also just like faith that you have enough common sense and enough of a skill set that it will be fine.

Kristin: 14:19

Let's talk about fundraising. So you have degrees in English and publishing, and almost no one grows up thinking they're gonna be a fundraiser. So, how did you stumble into it?

Celia: 14:34

Actually, the very earliest fundraising I did, it was in college for the rugby team and for the flute choir, because I had forgotten that I was actually the treasurer for both of those organizations. Adorable. Um and yeah, and you know, we used to do like bake sales and whatever the classic kind of And were you like leading those as the treasurer? I think I wasn't like the person who had the idea. I was like the person who was like, okay, somebody else has the idea. We're gonna like make this work, and we're gonna have a system to collect the money, and then we're gonna have a system to like know what we do with the money. Yeah. Which for a while was literally $2,000 under my bed for the rugby team.

Kristin: 15:18

Very secure.

Celia: 15:20

Very secure, but you know, um, it did survive. And I think that has actually carried it forward into my career too. Like, it's not that I don't have some ideas, but I'm very good at um operationalizing. If somebody has a vision, then I can be like, okay, but how are we actually going to like from A to Z to make that vision happen? That's so yeah. That was definitely an early version of that being the treasurer for school clubs at a time period in which we still had to put our budgets on floppy disks. Wow.

Kristin: 15:52

Under your bed and on floppy disks.

Celia: 15:55

Okay.

Kristin: 15:55

So you I you may have fallen into this earlier in life.

Celia: 15:58

Yes. And I didn't think about, yeah, but honestly, I don't think I even when I did start start doing like fundraising professionally, I don't even think I remembered like connected the dots back necessarily to like what I had been doing in college. Because honestly, I think at that point too, I was sort of filling a role that like literally nobody else wanted to do. Like nobody puts up their hand and says, I want to be treasurer of the flute choir. Somebody has to do it. Perhaps the path of fundraising too is like money is very necessary. Every organization, every human really needs, at least in a capitalist society, needs money to be able to function. But a lot of people don't really want to think about how that money comes to be and like where it comes from and what drives it, at least in the nonprofit sector. And so at some point, I was just kind of temping for nonprofits and fundraising often a lot of openings, because they're, you know, an industry it tends to be a fair amount of turnover. That's much harder than it looks. Yes. And yeah, and I sort of wandered into a fundraising job because a bunch of staff had walked out of the organization two weeks before their annual gala, which drove most of their private fundraising revenue, which is important for their flexibility. It was like mostly this gala. And so their staff had left, and so they, you know, went to the tap agency and found me and somebody else to like fill in. And neither of us had done anything with fundraising or galas or donors, really, before.

Kristin: 17:29

And I think that must have traumatized you early on, because you ever since have said no, thank you to galas.

Celia: 17:35

I mean, I did that job for I was at the organization for five years. So I did at least four galas. But yes, by the time I was done, I was done. And yes, it was a bit, it was a bit traumatizing. Um it was also a great learning experience. Um, I remember also that gala we had um, you're supposed to have a gift bag, right? Because gala gas expect gift bags at the end of the night. And they had not sourced the actual bag to put the things in. So I was tasked with sourcing a bag and then I only had like a week, right? And so we ended up having Trader Joe's grocery bags as our gala bags. And we decided it was like, you know, shabby chic, basically, right? It's charming.

Kristin: 18:18

Yes. Shabby chic. Wait, were they paper? Yes. Stop. So funny.

Celia: 18:25

I mean, I feel like shabby. Shabby chic. I buy it. No donor commented on it, interestingly. I was expecting to like be embarrassed by like Snide comments, and everybody was very much like, no, this is fine. Which I was I was and now knowing what I know about so many people who go to things like galas, I'm very proud of them for just being like, yeah, this is a gift bag. Like, thank you.

Kristin: 18:46

I have no questions about this. Yeah. I think actually it's something, it's like a fine line with donors and galas, especially. They love to see you saving money, like pinching a penny. They also want to be treated like royalty, but they love to see you saving money. So I'm sure they've turned my hand. I want to know what surprised you most about nonprofitslash philanthropy land over the years.

Celia: 19:13

I think it always surprises me, honestly, talking to friends who work in corporate jobs or also government jobs, just how many resources they tend to have to get a thing done. And then I'm like, oh, you have 10 people to do that project. We would have maybe two to do the same kind of project. And somehow we are also moving things forward and doing good work and making stuff happen. But I think I didn't actually realize that just because I'd never worked in the corporate sector. So I've been working nonprofits the whole time. And so I didn't realize it was just ordinary to me to have very little capacity to do a lot of things, which is also somewhat dangerous in the long run once you get used to that. And it's a fine line. Between like a point of pride and like maybe a little dysfunction. But I'm also like, it's kind of amazing the work that the majority of nonprofits that I know managed to get down the block.

Kristin: 20:13

Yeah.

Celia: 20:13

Despite having to fundraise and work with all these funding sources that are like really not designed, but they're actually doing and like with op and understaffing. And yeah, honestly, I think it's very surprising in many ways what we manage to do. So the narrative right now on the news in the US, at least, right, is nonprofits wasting money and fraud and whatever. And I'm like, maybe there's a, you know, 0.001% that's where that's happening, but the majority of organizations are doing great work with very little money.

Kristin: 20:44

Um, let's talk about your current job. People might hear your job and think that it is a dream job. What do you feel like they get right about that? And what do you feel like they're misunderstanding?

Celia: 20:55

I think for people not in our sector, it sounds like a dream job because of all the travel, which I think is a real privilege, and I really do enjoy it. I think that people who don't travel for work maybe idealize it a bit and don't think about being kind of on for 24 hours a day, switching time zones and kind of the exhausting parts of it. But I do think that it is very special that I get to like go so many places all over the world and meet so many new people and have a lot of different experiences. I think also in terms of like for our sector dream job, like fundraising dream job, what I really like about my job in like that respect is that when you work in the public foundation sector, which both you and I do, you're kind of the bridge between movements and donors, and in my case, especially big institutional donors, like governments, big private foundations, sometimes corporations. And in terms of systems change, is a very privileged and interesting role to be in as a fundraiser because you are raising money and like moving money in my case to feminist movements, to LGBTQI movements all around the world. But you're not just doing it for your organization, you're doing it on a big, like systemic level and kind of thinking, okay, yes, we can move this money for my organization. We can also think about what it means for our sector overall in terms of like feminist movements, but we can also think about, okay, when you're working with a big government donor and maybe they're a donor with a lot of influence, once they kind of are working with you and you can use your relationship to kind of move them in a more progressive direction, then they can also start to help move their peers in a more progressive direction. I think back to when I was a fundraiser in like a community-based nonprofit, my first job in New York City with an HVAIDS organization. In that job as a fundraiser, you were locked out of spaces most of the time. You were kind of trying to like make it into where the donors were. Like, how do you get in the right networking room? Like, how do you even meet the donors, whether it's a city council member or a foundation person or somebody works for the, you know, state office that can move you a grant. But a public foundation setting, you get to be in those spaces with donors because you are a donor, and that means that you have a lot more leeway and influence. And that means that you can not just think about money you're moving for your organization, but money that's being moved in a very much more systemic way. And that is really interesting to me. And it takes a long time to shift like culture, right? Of institutional donors. But now having been in this work for almost 10 years, I can kind of see some of the changes that have happened over that span. But it's interesting to be in that space where you have such a bird's eye view.

Kristin: 23:44

I mean, this is the thing, this is the part of your job that like really keeps you attached, right? This is like your passion. Not only how do you frame it for yourself in terms of progress, but how do you like track it for your organization? Do you track it?

Celia: 23:58

Is it narrative-based? Yeah, I mean, there's the classic answer you know in the fundraising side, which of course, if we're moving more money, like that's progress. But I think on the sort of film topic influencing film topic advocacy, like our donors on like a big picture moving in the direction we want them to move in. I think that honestly has to be tracked on a sector level because it's not just like my organization kind of putting in the effort and helping make those changes. It's also your organization, other ones in our orbit, right? And we're all kind of working together to move some of these bigger donors in the direction we'd want them to go. So I think it's both that we haven't devised the best ways of tracking, but also it's a very like collaborative effort over many, many years. And it's quite hard then to be able to measure that progress. I do think it does help. Like I said, like have been here for 10 years now. I can say, oh, like this is how I've seen some of these big donors move, or this is how the sector has moved. And there are entities like, you know, Global Philanthropy Project that tracks the amount of LGBTQI dollars, right? And so then we can see on a big picture. Um, I think at my specific job, it's more in, as you said, more narrative where I'm looking at donors that we worked with over a number of years, and I can say, oh, this is where you started, this is where you are now. Honestly, my favorite is when I've been trying to talk to a donor about something for a while. And then all of a sudden they bring it up in conversation, like it was their idea. And then you're like, oh, yes. Yes, we finally got you there because now you think that it's coming, not even from me, but that you just had this thought and now you're gonna do it. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But that actually I think is a measure of progress when you're like, oh, now you're talking about doing things in a way that I have been wanting you to. And then also, of course, the actual action, right? Like, are they actually going to dedicate more resources to trans rights?

Kristin: 25:53

I love that though. Cause you can then, you know, you take your own little moment of celebration. You're like, I said that. I did that. We did that. Um, I'll tell you a story really fast that you probably did. You probably planted some of these seeds with um an institutional funder at the organization I work at. I had a call with them early in my time there. They were like, we've really been thinking about how to reframe trans rights and reproductive justice. And we've been really thinking about it as bodily autonomy and here's how we're approaching it on a community level. And I'm like, brilliant. That's that was one of those moments where they repeated back the language that I'm sure people like you have said to them. And now they're starting to digest it and implement it. That is a win. Do you document that for yourself? Do you write down little bullet points to track? Cause you gotta.

Celia: 26:48

Yeah, in my organization, we do something called sense making, where we do kind of go back and ask like certain questions about the work that we're doing and then try and collect the stories that kind of show whether it's progress or learning or like something kind of against the work. And so, yes, I should more often write down when you have that like win in a conversation. I think I need to get better about documenting in the moment. But we at least do have subsystems for like reflecting and kind of writing up some of these successes. One of my favorite moments this year actually was when I had a donor unprompted, wrote me and my organization a report themselves about something they had experienced, an event that we had, like three pages of like, these are my takeaways, this is what I'm taking back to my organization, these are the lessons that I've learned. Here's how I'll try and influence other people in my organization. And I was like, yes, that is a win. File that shit away. Yes. Oh, I did. Oh, that's beautiful. So I was like, yes. I was like, you literally you've already written me my sense making story. At least one of them for the year. Thank you.

Kristin: 27:51

That's so nice. And on a hard day, it's nice to have those to remember. That's lovely. Talk to me about how this kind of advocacy shows up on the ground in communities. So the work that you're doing, why is it important to the folks on the ground?

Celia: 28:10

I think it goes back to what we were talking about a little bit ago, about how everybody needs resources to do the work that they're doing. We kind of wish we didn't need money specifically. Um, but unfortunately, we generally do. And so when I'm talking to donors and talking to them about what kind of impact their money will have on the ground, there are incredible, just like frontline activists with very little money doing a whole lot in their context, whether it's advocating for a new law or it's protecting folks with the shelter or responding to like a hurricane, right? Like supporting their community, like they're doing so much. We had a grantee partner, our grants are small, so we do rapid response. And so the grant, I think, was like 8,000 USD. And the organization spent, I think, like four or five thousand um on the specific thing they had asked for the grant for. And so they were like, X happened, we were able to accomplish that. And so, do you want like $3,000 back? Because like we didn't, we didn't spend it. Like maybe somebody else could use it. My organization, of course, is like, no, please, like, we know you can there's other ways you can spend that money. Like, please, like spend it on your next activity, like, or do something for yourselves. Do like collective care retreat, like please just like use that money in an important way because we know that you will. Like, we do not want it back. I think it's just amazing that I can work the donor and raise, you know, $10 million for a few years of my organization then moving money into hundreds and thousands of activist organizations around the world who are then doing exactly what they think will make the most impact for their community on the ground.

Kristin: 29:54

What does success feel like to you right now?

Celia: 29:57

I mean, honestly, with all the political shifts happening, I think success right now, unfortunately, just feels like holding the line and not losing ground that we've made in terms of the amount of money that does move to LGBTQI and feminist movements. I think unfortunately we have already like backslid. Um, but yeah, but I think it's a success to me is like trying to use the influence that I have to kind of keep as much resources flowing as possible in this political like time of just anti-rights backlash and all the authoritarianism. And I think if right now, if our institutions and our movements can like make it through the next five, ten years and like even with incremental or holding the line kind of progress, I think we will have done our jobs as well as we could.

Kristin: 30:52

I think you're right. And I think one thing we are seeing is like organizations like ours are figuring out new ways to work together. And so whatever that survival means, sort of like a practice and not being attached to like the ways in which things are organized right now, it's more of an attachment to holding that line for our grantees and for the movements.

Celia: 31:16

Yes. I think that's a very good point. I think actually a lot of and what's energizing me lately is that those different kinds of like collaborations that are happening in our sector and like getting to work with peers and like collaborate instead of compete for funding and like try and figure out, as you're saying, okay, how can we just keep resources flowing where we want them to flow? It doesn't necessarily matter what kind of configuration they are flowing through. Um, but as long as we can keep them moving.

Kristin: 31:45

We're gonna switch to the lightning round. And I'm gonna tell you and all the listeners, this podcast and this first question on the lightning round, it actually all came from you. I didn't know that. You were having a party and we were talking to someone else, the two of us were talking to someone else at your party about like our very first job that we ever had. And this is where I learned about your very first job, which we will get to in one second. And I was like, wow, we just like don't necessarily know these things about our friends. And also, work is something I could talk about ad nauseum. So then, like a few days later is when I had the like a light bulb epiphany that I should do this. So, anyway, thanks for that. Thanks for hosting the party that made me want to do this podcast that also inspired this first lightning round question, which is what was the very first job you ever had and what did it teach you about work?

Celia: 32:36

I think I had multiple first jobs kind of at the same time because they all had to do with horses. Probably the very, very first job was probably like mucking stables, which teaches you a lot of just like discipline and responsibility. And like you just sometimes you just have to do the thing and get it done, even if it's not like the most fun thing. And then I was teaching riding lessons, which I think teaches you to be very consistent and curious, and just sort of figuring out like what does progress mean to you and to like whoever you're working with. And then my other, which maybe this is what I said to you before, driving a horse carriage. Yep. It was all coming around the same time period. I mean, it was customer service oriented, so it prepared me for some fundraising there, I would say, in terms of just handling various kinds of tourists who were coming to my hometown. But yeah, but also just like figuring out like what does a routine mean? What does it mean to like have a kind of a goal? We had like, we would have like, I think we had daily goals, like how many rides you were gonna do in a day, but you couldn't control often how that worked out because the tour, what the weather was or the tourist happening. So I think it also taught me to be very flexible because you were like, okay, well, that's what we intended to do today, but like we're not gonna make it for like XYZ reasons. We'll try again tomorrow. So you had to be very adaptable. I also had a really hilarious boss who was he was very kind. He was like a really like compassionate man, like both with his employees and like with the horses. He was also just very quirky. So like it was also a good, like, just like how do you navigate a boss who says very unexpected things and who might try and evangelize about raw milk and who also wants you to come with him to break up the drug deal that is happening under the bridge where the horse trailers are stored at like 10 p.m. at night when it's already dark out. And very young person. I was, yeah, I think I would have been like 18 or something. Yeah. But he was, but honestly, in terms of like first bosses, he was a good one. He was like, yeah, he was pretty solid.

Kristin: 34:44

I mean, and being prepared for the weaker things in life is good.

Celia: 34:50

Then I think my next job after that was working in a boutique. What kind of boutique? Um, it was uh it was half art gallery and then it all stuck clothing and jewelry and CDs.

Kristin: 35:01

This was in your hometown?

Celia: 35:02

Yeah.

Kristin: 35:03

Cute. Mm-hmm. What is one thing you believed about careers when you were younger that you definitely don't believe now?

Celia: 35:10

I think just the part about having to have uh like a vocation of like, oh, I'm gonna be like a lawyer or a doctor, or like somebody who does something very specific. And then as you get older, you realize there are so many different jobs out there and people need to be doing all of them. Yeah. Some of them are not the obvious ones that you hear about when you're a kid, but they could be just as fulfilling.

Kristin: 35:33

What is the best or worst piece of advice you've ever gotten?

Celia: 35:37

I think one of the best piece of advice I ever got was from a boss who was who she left while I was still at an organization. And she said the people are what matters the most. And she meant your coworkers. She also meant the people, you know, the kind of communities that we serve and support. But like kind of don't lose sight of all of the human connections in your work life. Like you're not just there to like stress out about like a deadline. You're working with humans and also remember that sometimes take time and like slow down and actually I mean, get to know the people you're working with and care about them and have compassion for them.

Kristin: 36:15

I feel like you really took that one to heart. You're really good at that. What is your career armor, that little thing that you reach for when you need like comfort at work?

Celia: 36:24

Oh, I think you know this because you actually gave me one to carry around. I like to carry rocks in my pocket. So if you I find me at a donor conference, I usually have some sort of, yeah, yeah, something in my pocket that I can just like um It's a little bit of an anchor. If you're in a ridiculous conversation, you could just like keep a straight face and nod and smile and be like, okay.

Kristin: 36:47

Do you have like it sounds good? Are you a question that I genuinely have for you that I do not know the answer to is are you into like crystals? Do you care what kind of rock they are?

Celia: 37:00

I have never gotten into crystals. Um I often carry rocks from my hometown. So I often have a rock from Lake Superior. Beautiful. And that, yes. And even though it's not a place I want to live, it's a place I feel like anchored to. Yeah. Um, I think also just like the component of like where the water meets the land, right? Is where you find the rocks on the beach. And I think there's something about like uh the solidity of like the ground and then like the adaptability of water, which really helps me when I'm like in like an uncertain space. What is your most embarrassing work story? Um, I think I can go back to one of those galas. It must have been my second one. Yeah, second gala I did. And I had a new boss for then who was honestly lovely. And he was totally warranted in the feedback that he gave me, which was when you put the umbrellas in the gift bag, you have to take off the plastic wrapping first. Because it's tacky to have the plastic wrapping still on the umbrella when you put it in the gift bag. You know. And I remember being very embarrassed by it in the moment because I was like, yes, that does seem obvious. Not when you say that. But also, we had a very regimented plan here to fill these gift bags, and there wasn't a lot of time to take off the plastic wrapping from the umbrella. But we did go back and take all the past wrapping off all the umbrellas.

Kristin: 38:28

Here's where I would like to make a joke about the the gay lesbian divide.

Celia: 38:33

You just wanted to get it done. I guess it's true, and he cared about the aesthetics. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible.

Kristin: 38:41

Do you fix typos and casual communication?

Celia: 38:44

I used to, and now I tend not to. I mean, I make sure it's readable, but now even like casual word communication now. I'm just like, it's fine, you'll figure it out. Good for you. It's okay.

Kristin: 38:58

I try to ask this question in such a non-biased way, but like I am, I am biased, and I love that for you. I love that freedom for you.

Celia: 39:05

Yeah, no, I think it's good for me. It means I'm feeling less anxious about the little things.

Kristin: 39:10

Yeah, that's actually very huge. The very last question is what would your advice be to someone who feels off track right now?

Celia: 39:19

I would say you have your own track. If you look at other people around you, you might feel like you're off track. You have to kind of figure out like what is your specific version of being like on track and not let other people's like expectations get in the way of that.

Kristin: 39:36

Thank you. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for well, just thank you. I really appreciate it.

Celia: 39:42

No, thank you. I am honored to be the last guest of season one.

Kristin: 39:46

Season one is a wrap.

Celia: 39:48

Yay!

Kristin: 39:56

Okay, what a fun way to end the season with my closest. Friend and my most hesitant participant, you know, and I'm not in the business of forcing people to do anything. And not everyone loves having a microphone in front of their face, but I'm incredibly grateful that they agreed to sit down. And one of the things I haven't stopped thinking about is the rocks that they carry in their pockets. To me, there's a lot of symbolism there, especially when they said it symbolizes to them where the water meets the earth, where they're from. And I think I just want to take a moment to meditate on that for a second. And I want to encourage us all to be that rock. I think that that rock symbolizes the bridge between worlds. It bridges the water and the earth. It has been shaped by adventure. It has held its shape and it continues on. And I just wish that for all of us. And with that, we wrap the first season of Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real. I can't believe that we did this and that people are listening. Thank you so much for listening. This has been a really fun labor of love. I really want to shout out Lauren, who's always behind the scenes editing. None of these interviews would be what they are without some incredible dedication to editing. Not because the guests need editing, but because sometimes I do go off on tangents. We are already hard at work on season two. We have some really exciting guests lined up, and we are planning to drop episode one, season two on February 25th. In the meantime, please share and subscribe and leave reviews, interact with us as much as you are feel called to. And I want you to be on the lookout for two bonus episodes. So do make sure that you're subscribed and that you're following us somewhere so that you will see two very fun and probably unexpected guests slash episodes in the next couple of weeks. Capitalism may be absurd, but so are we. And on that note, well, it's been real. Don't forget to subscribe. I'm Kristen. See you next time.