Zakiya: Don't bury your gifts.

In this episode, Kristin sits down with Zakiya (she/her), Vice President of Philanthropic Partnerships at the Climate and Clean Energy Equity Fund, to talk about leadership, identity, and the through-lines that shape a career.

A Bermudian immigrant, former therapist, and seasoned fundraiser, Zakiya reflects on what it means to mobilize money at the intersection of climate and racial justice; and why money, at its core, is intimate work. From navigating tokenization in philanthropy to choosing when and how to step back into formal leadership, she shares hard-won wisdom about boundaries, authenticity, and using your gifts before they atrophy.

Together, they explore what it means to build a career without bitterness, how to recognize the skills that have always been yours, and why the job may change, but the gift doesn't.

How to get in touch:

• Zakiya J. Lord on LinkedIn

Transcript

Kristin 0:03

Welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real, a podcast about careers, detours, and the absurdity of work. Here we explore the twists, the pivots, and the tiny choices that shape our work lives with humor, feminism, and honesty. I'm your host, Kristen. Let's get into it. Hello, and welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real. Today's guest is someone that I admire so much. We used to work together. We sat next to each other. I learned so much from her and talk about someone who can tell a story. So she has been top of my list for a long time. This is the perfect timing. I'm so excited. Zakiya, she her, is the vice president of Philanthropic Partnerships at the Climate and Clean Energy Equity Fund, where she mobilizes resources at the intersection of climate and racial justice. A Bermudian immigrant and former therapist. She brings deep relational skill, cultural fluency, and an unwavering belief in gratitude and authenticity to the craft of fundraising. Welcome, Zakiya.

Zakiya 1:08

Thank you for having me. I'm actually quite excited.

Kristin 1:10

Yay! I am so excited. I know you're feeling the vacation vibes. You feel like you don't have wisdom to share, but you kind of always do. I appreciate that. I feel like you would have made a good like pastor.

Zakiya 1:22

Yes. Do people tell you that? People project leadership onto me. And I've had to learn to like push back on it to be like everybody who wants you to lead isn't worthy. I don't want to do that. Yeah. And like you also don't want to lead like a pile car. You know what I mean? Like you don't want that. Like, no. But it took took years to be like, really? No. Um, but yeah, I think um my voice also helps, right? Like, I it's it's always been deep, like deeper than my friends. And so I think that that makes it sound like what you have to say is like solid. Yeah, it's very commanding. Yeah. I appreciate that.

Kristin 1:59

Um, as we warm up, I just want you to tell us what you do currently.

Zakiya 2:04

Like, how would you tell someone at a party what you do? You and I both work in the money space, so it depends on what party. But I would say that I'm like, I say a resource mobilizer only because I think that like the skill that I have is like comfort with people and comfort with resources. And so currently I'm the VP of Philanthropic Partnerships at the Climate and Clean Energy Equity Fund. That's the long way of saying I am out here both making friends and like challenging folks to do better with their the money and the capitals that they have. Some of that's social capital, some of that's financial capital. Um, and I think that has been a theme that runs through my jobs. So some might say I'm a fundraiser, right? Like for a relatively large institution in the tens of millions. But in the past, it was a donor advisor. I still do some of that work. So I know that's convoluted, but I think the theme is the money piece, right? Being willing to sit with folks and discuss kind of how they can both build their legacy and do good with it is the is the theme that runs through jobs. It helps put it all into perspective.

Kristin 3:13

You are newish in your role. I am. And this is an insane time, politically speaking, for working in philanthropy, specifically progressive, specifically climate. What is lighting you up right now?

Zakiya 3:28

You know, it's interesting. I think that the folks leaning in, like people being willing to give their resources, is can is always an ongoing like anchor for me. Even when other folks are saying, you know, no, I'm giving resources. I'm like, somebody is. And that opportunity to work with those people, whether it that's an institution or individual, and know that they are being thoughtful and that they still find me worthy and find my institution worthy, I think that is a like a North Star for me, is that even when folks are like retreating, someone isn't. And you can't be so focused on who isn't like cheering for you that you forget the folks that are. So I'm trying to hold on, hold fast to that. And obviously, we recently got a very big gift from a very popular um philanthropist, so that's also helpful. But I'm trying not to like focus on one person and just remember, and also my colleagues, good gracious. Like I am new to climate, and so um it's an opportunity to learn. But like my 48-year-old self is like, girl, 12-year-old you deserves to be challenged. And so I'm like, challenge away. So I'm being, I'm like being lit up by the challenge. I'm being lit up by like passionate people, right? Like when you work with people who really believe in what they do, they will convince you to believe in it too. And so those two things, with the folks being generous and my colleagues who really, really believe in what they're doing and deserve the best of us, uh are my like driving forces at the moment.

Kristin 4:59

I love that. It's beautiful. I want to back up a little and go to your roots. I believe that like a lot of things sort of help us get to wherever we end up. We have a foundation. And this is the part of the episode where I often ask people about their astrology, but I want to know any of the things, astrology, family, how you grew up. Talk about those things and then tell me how those things help shape you into who you are now.

Zakiya 5:23

I love this question. Um, I have they're so it's two-pronged. I'll do my best to weed them together. So, one, I'm an immigrant from Bermuda that's relevant because it's a tiny, tiny country, 21 miles, like 66,000 people. I can joke we're all cousins, but kind of are. But I think what I have been able to pull um in retrospect is it's a lot of small talk. It's a lot of um sharing and not sharing, right? So, for example, if you're in the grocery store and I'm standing next to you, it's like these grapes are expensive, right? Oh my goodness, yes. Like, oh, but what about those tomatoes? Like you can do that and you actually have shared absolutely nothing about yourself. You haven't shared your politics, you haven't shared, you know, that you're working or not working, right? Like you're doing this banter and you'll do it again tomorrow with someone else on the ferry. Or and and these are the same people you will see for the next 40 years. Um, but there is a level of pleasantry, right? And there's a there's a skill to it. There's an it's artistry. And um I see it with like my uncles do it, right? Like where they're just on the verge of flirting, but it's charm. And so there's, I think that there's a cultural piece that has translated well into cocktail parties and engaging with people when I don't know where they stand on an issue, right? So when you and I work together, we worked at like a lesbian foundation by name, and that is not always people's cup of tea, and you don't know that. And you also don't want to dive always into the deep end, and so you need to almost like test the waters, right? And so that small talk talent, small town, small talk talent, um, is something that I was able to kind of bring into this work. I think also when I went to school, undergrad and grad, like I started in in therapy, in counseling in a residential treatment facility with kids who made bad choices and who are away from their family. And so very similarly, a thing that I had to get good at was establishing boundaries and building rapport, right? So it's almost like a seesaw. Those two things have to exist together in order for you to do good work. You have to one be like, no, I'm not your girlfriend. No, I'm not bringing you a Snickers bar. You know what I mean? That's against the rules. But also, I read your chart, and I have to both, you know, I know, I know I know, and we're gonna pretend I don't know. Right. And that's very similar to when I'm with a donor, is that when I'm working with someone, and my title on my email says fundraiser, you know, and I know I'm going to get to the money part, right? But at the same time, and if you took my meeting or took my call, then at some point, and you know you have resources, you know we're gonna get there, but we can have a good time on the way, right? Like we can also get to know each other. Um, we can figure out our places of connection. And I am also always planning for the like after the gift. What are we gonna do after the gift? And so similarly with when I work with kids, after you share the thing that you don't want to share, what are we gonna play? Right? What are we gonna talk about? Like, what color crayon am I gonna ensure is sharpened so that you can draw with it when we're finished? And so it's not different. I also had to get good at, you know, if you're sitting with a kid for a long time and he hasn't disclosed, you're like, so do you want to share or not? You know what I mean? I was like, could you could be here with me for a long time? And similar with donors, I'm like, did you plan to give at some point? Because like I like hanging out with you, I want to drink your wine, this digital puzzle is fun. And you and I both know that the work I'm doing is meaningful and I believe in it. It sounds like you do too, right? And so there's that very, very similar parallel place. But I think the thing that works for me then that I believe is working for me now is that I am genuinely in it when I'm in it. Like when I'm one-on-one with someone, even folks with the smallest of violins, I genuinely am listening, right? Like, genuinely want to know how uncomfortable you are with your millions. Similar to with kids, I'm like, I genuinely want to know how you really didn't think it was gonna go like that. You know, you didn't think your whole house would set on fire when you set your, you know, the toy box on fire. You know, like it literally is like, I want to walk with you through your own journey and listen as openly as I can to what it is you want me to hear. I also want to help you be the person you want me to see you as. And I think that's helpful too to the institutions, is that take 2020, right? There are a lot of folks. I'm a black woman, there's a lot of folks who really were leaning into the racial awakening. They really wanted to tell me about where they volunteered in college. They might be 70 by now, right? And where they travel, and you know, if they have, you know, grandkids of color, like there's a lot of conversation about race, and they really wanted to be the kind of people that this was not their first time giving to something related to race. At the same time, you and I both know that we can see inside of a record to some degree and see typically what folks have given to. And so show me what you spend your money on, I'll tell you what your values are. And so someone might tell me that all those things, and I can see that they only gave to the Philharmonic and their kids' school and maybe the zoo. And so their money isn't matching their story. But what I don't take that personally and I don't roll my eyes, I also lean hard into that the next time that we need to have a conversation about that gift is that if that's who you want me to believe you are, I hope you be that person. And similarly, when I was a therapist, if you want me to believe that you're the kind of kid that does his homework on time, and you always did, even though I see all the F's, fine. Like let's let's make you the homework leader. I don't mind. You know? Um, and so I think again, there's this parallel between really listening to kind of who do people want to be, and is there a way I can help them both believe that and prove that to me and to themselves.

Kristin 11:15

It's so beautiful. And I wish I had the words for how much I believe you are probably the most talented fundraiser I've ever met. It's I appreciate that. It's just like it blows me away. I'm like, I'm like, let her lead. I don't need to do this.

Zakiya 11:28

You're very kind.

Kristin 11:30

I want to know if you feel like the natural inclination to just understand people came from. Is it natural or did you, is it trained from your school and becoming a therapist? Is it a little bit of both?

Zakiya 11:45

I think some of it is I really like people. And as much as I worked on it, I want them to like me too. You know, I think there's, I think we can go further when we can see some part of ourselves and someone else. We're more likely to say yes to a thing, we're more likely to challenge them if we get close enough. Like my dad, maybe rest in peace, he said joke. He was like, So they pay you, they pay you to raise your own money to just talk to people all day. And I was like, apparently so, dad. You know, he was like, You made this into a job. Um, and Chassity would say, I always like to write letters, and now I can do it on the clock. Yeah. And so, you know, and so I do enjoy snail mail. Like I genuinely enjoy sending mail to people. And then it is also strategic inside of the philanthropic space to thank folks, right? And so I do think that over the years of doing this work, what has gotten me positive affirmation, I do more of, right? And so my old coach, Robin, used to say I was a natural, and then she helped me hone what would maybe set me apart. Timeliness will set you apart. Handwritten letters versus the email will set you apart. And so the intention is fine. All of us have good intentions, but the execution on that intention is a thing that I can consistently do, and consistency builds trust.

Kristin 13:04

Tell me about how you ended up in the US. I know at some point you've spent time in the South.

Zakiya 13:09

Loved it.

Kristin 13:10

And how I it seems like it seems like the like sensibilities of Wall Town Bermuda really match the South.

Zakiya 13:19

You know, I loved, I loved the South. I still do. I still have a 205 number, right? I was in Alabama. Um, and I came to college in in America. My cousin was in Alabama. And so my mom was like, you know, let's go, your cousins out there, stay there for a little while, and then we'll figure out where you go from there. And then I got there and I kind of liked it. And so I did a year. But I think you're right, I didn't have to say 10 years. Undergrad and grad still wouldn't have got me to 10 years, but there was a small townness of it. You know, there I used to question how I ended up in, you know, Alabama and like, ooh, who would I have been if I had been in a bigger town? But I think over the years I've stopped questioning it. Like I went to Alabama, then Chicago, then Brooklyn, and then DC. And now I realize there's just a southern charm. There's Southern storytelling, there's a skill in the South. They're some of the best storytellers in the in the nation. And there's also a way in which the thing they talk about, Southern charm, it is very, very real. And I know for me, some of my favorite leaders, advocates, activists are the Southern ones, right? Like they always have a good perspective. They um are resilient, they are resourceful, and they build across bridges. And it's obviously there's like a deep history of like problematic behavior in the South. And also that it hasn't gone away, but folks in the South know how to navigate it better and with more grace and still be unapologetic about what it is that they need and want. And I think all those things I picked up while I was there, and then over the years have had a chance to continue to fund in the South. And so been able to go back and forth in a way that allowed me to like deepen my appreciation for the work that happens there, the lack of money that goes there, and even sometimes the minimal eyes that even look there, and yet people aren't discouraged and are still like welcoming, right? They're welcoming to additional resources, they're welcoming in if you come to a meeting that's there. And so there's a part of me that is really appreciates that and is very similar, right? Like I don't get jaded very much. It's just not who I am. And the South, I think, is also a place that it isn't jaded and it should be, um, or could be, I should say. Um, so I think that path through the South, and now in hindsight, like I'm able to also leverage it, right? If I was gonna be honest about professionally, I don't know if 15 years ago I knew how to pull that out of my pocket and play it as a receipt because it I don't know if it was, but now one, I'm a little bit more distanced from it and I've lived in so many different places, but I also understand that it is an additional layer to me that I can play and it deepens what people can attach to. And so part of this work is like, I feel like I'm a eight-sided die and that I always want to be myself, but like which self would be most valuable in this setting, would be the most well received in this setting, would allow me to maintain some sense of privacy and also openness, is also the balance that I think folks in this work who are doing it well have to figure out how to be your whole self and also still save something of yourself for your personal self. And so I call it like a work self. And my work self can lean heavily into my work I've done in the South and my years in the South. And so I've learned to also play that in a way that feels authentic and allows me to maintain my dignity and integrity.

Kristin 16:59

And I think you're actually really good at holding lines around your personal life. One thing you've said over the years is like, I don't want to be a leader, or at least not right now. That hasn't always been your priority. And so, can you talk a little bit about your family? You have a wife and a son. I do. And a lot of your priorities and the ways in which you, you know, boundary your life are about them.

Zakiya 17:24

They are. My wife has a big job. She's always had a big job. She's always been a leader. Now she's a CEO. And so while she's generous and helpful and like cheers for my career, I also acknowledge like the responsibilities that she has exceed the responsibilities that I have professionally. Um and also she's driven by those as differently than I am. And so that's been an interesting balance. Some folks who know us both are like, wow, you guys are like power couple. I'm like, I don't think that's what we say at home. Like, that's just not, you know, we're not home thinking that. But over the years, I certainly have grown, particularly in the side of the fundraising development space. My responsibilities have grown, and that can look like the amount of money I've had to raise has grown. The places I have to travel has grown. The things I say yes to have increased, not because I'm being asked to go everywhere, but because I know that invitation is exclusive or that opportunity I did not have last year. And so I need to take it. And so that's been an interesting push and pull. Um, but we've we've we figured it out. And we also moved to DC so we could be closer to family. And then I have an 11-year-old. And when you and I worked together, he was younger, right? And I was still figuring it out. And he was he was so cute. But I think what has helped me to lean into leadership again now in like a traditional formal sense, is that when I was a new parent, it was in New York City. It was new. New York was new, right? Like getting on a train and getting home in general was new, let alone getting home to somebody. And then New York City is it is a city of movers and shakers. And like that is the thing I think is really important, is that no one in New York City moves to New York City so they could be home five days a week, five nights a week. No, people have their yoga on a Tuesday. Even if they have a night at home, that's their night for like laundry. And so I think I found New York quite lonely. But also, children are demanding in ways that there just aren't words for. And I think where I had led before, I couldn't do that with a small child. And I think I just had more patience and absolutely less patience for like grown adults who might act like kids. I just didn't have it. Like I have it now. 11 years in, my I understand my son better, I understand myself as a parent better. And this time in our history, I think requires each of us to lean into our talents and our expertise in ways that maybe we haven't. And then I think that like each of us are given gifts and that if you don't use them, they go away. And so a part of me going back into this like really senior leadership role was because I know that I've been a leader my whole life. I understand that I have gifts and talents. And I'm not sure by not formally leading or formally like being the person I know I've been in the past that my muscles, one, wouldn't atrophy, or two, the gifts wouldn't be taken from me. And so I I really just felt like not in a Marto way, but just each of us need to be doing our best. I just don't think this is the time to like stick your hands in your pocket and bury your talents under a bushel. If ever we needed folks to like swing for the proverbial fences, it it might be now.

Kristin 20:46

You're right. Yeah, I think that's such a good perspective. And I when the election happened in 2024, was that 24? Yes. All I could think about from that point on, and it's still with me, is that all all we have is like right here in our backyard, our community, the work that we touch directly. Like we cannot control so much of what's going on, but we can step into our community and we can lead in the ways that we're good at leading because that is all we have.

Zakiya 21:18

That is all we have. And like I know for me, I don't have a lot of peers, like black, lesbian, immigrant peers over here in philanthropy. Like, I don't take a job expecting I'm gonna find myself. No, that has not been my experience. While there are certainly like diverse folks inside the field, I also think people should not feel limited, right? Like I didn't have a lot of role models for me. I still can't think of someone who like encompassed all those things, right? Like I certainly had lesbian leaders inside philanthropic spaces, I had black leaders inside philanthropic spaces, I had immigrant leaders, but not all three. And at the same time, I think each of us, right, whether it's the southern part or the queer part or just whatever our histories are, like it's a compilation. All experiences are cumulative. And so I think mine are too. And like I always say, I often get asked to like talk to new fundraisers, often talk to young black fundraisers. And I was like, you can do it. Like I promise you, you can learn the lingo, you can learn the few buzzwords that you need, but who are your people? And what ways would your family have shown care, concern, and like interest in people? I said, and then do that thing. Do that thing and then figure out how you do that thing at work, because that will allow you to maintain a sense of rootedness in who you are. And I also say, please and thank you are free. This is not because they are rich or older or white or live in a better neighborhood/slash house than you. It is because your people and your parents have raised you to say thank you. That is why I say thank you. I'm never too busy, whether it's a $5K gift, a $50,000 gift, or a $5 million gift. And I think those basic tenants can get lost in these like cerebral conversations about money and fundraising and all the things. I'm like, but I say thank you because I just wasn't raised not to. I just don't know a world where like you're just so entitled that you're like, they should have gave 70K. I just don't feel like that. I genuinely don't, because people can always do something else. If you get it wrong, this is what's gonna happen. It's not necessarily that they'll give to a different charity. They may literally take their ball and go home.

Kristin 23:32

Yeah.

Zakiya 23:32

And we don't want that. None of us want that. The the the movement, the work, it just deserves. Even if they don't give to me, maybe they'll give to you if they have a good experience with me. You know, and so I think about that a lot.

Kristin 23:46

I've been thinking about ecosystem-wide work a lot too lately, where like, I just want the money to keep moving. I want to go back to some of what you were starting to touch on around um young people and then bringing people of color into fundraising. Because I feel like even 10 years ago, when people were like, there just aren't any people of color to do this work. Like they just where are they? And it was like, okay, we haven't made the path for them and we haven't like brought them in. And there's no there was like no effort being made to pull in young people who might not have found that path. And also I think back then, you know, 10, 15 years ago, donors, everything was a bit more stiff. Um, and maybe I've just been in progressive spaces too long, but like now what matters more than anything is authenticity.

Zakiya 24:33

That's right.

Kristin 24:34

I think. And so one of my things has always been like, how can I just do this work long enough to then get out of the way for the next folks who are gonna be better positioned to speak to the work and speak to what's going on on the ground? So I wonder how you've navigated you were kind of new to fundraising when we met. And I feel like you got like people were very proud to have you speaking for the cause. And so, how have you navigated feeling like um tokenized if if you have felt that way at all?

Zakiya 25:05

It's a good question. I think that what I have actually found was one, navigating that in this way that sometimes it was just, and I say this humbly, like typically I'm received well. And so not allowing folks to project the being received well onto me because I was black, because maybe they were meeting me as black, but also in a black space, I was being received well too. And so I think the balance of do they like me because I'm I'm a trophy or a token? And then being like, oh, so their reasons might be that they they might be surprised that they like me. You know what I mean? And I certainly have learned to navigate. So the thing that I would say that I learned to do better was things like they'd ask me about my parents, right? Not the people who hired me, but the donors, right? When they would sit with me and they'd get comfortable or have a lunch, whatever, it'd often be like, where are you from? And then what do my parents do? Which I realized people were not getting that question. That that is a racialized question. Random white cis dude in his 40s was not getting a question about what his parents did for a living or whether or not he went to private school. And those are questions I got a lot earlier in my career. And I felt like if I answered the question that they were asking, I would actually feed into a trope I didn't want to. If I answer the question, where am I from, with I'm not American, what they do is separate me from African Americans. And I actually don't want to participate in that. That's actually not helpful for anyone, and it's not true. And so I learned to answer that in a way that challenged what they were actually asking while also maintaining that relationship. They might ask me if I went to private school, which quiet as it's kept, I did go to private school, but that's not an answer that serves anyone if they're trying to actually carve out a special spot for me. And what they're actually struggling with is how do I feel so comfortable? And then I actually had to learn the opposite, right? So I had to encourage people who were well-meaning. So again, I've worked in progressive spaces. So people are trying not to tokenize me. They are trying not to, you know, gender me all these things. But what happened, I was not being utilized fully, I think, in certain roles. So I had I made a list. I had a coach, and I was like, what are the ways I want to be used? And so it was a list, and it's it was ranked. And I was like, I'm gonna be black all day. I'm a lesbian all day, immigrant all day, right? Non-gestational parent. It if this is a place that we think we can go and be great, and I am who you have, then I want first right of refusal. And that was really a shift for me in the sense of well-meaning people won't ask me to go to that HBCU thing. And so I this is a real incident. I look online, I'm working for somewhere, and there's like a random white gay guy at Howard. And I was like, I'm sorry, what was this? What was this goodness right here? I would have loved this. This would have been fun for me. And I we would have got some very different pictures if I was there. Dude was great. I was like, but he and I could have gone together, right? I was like, you didn't even mention it to me, right? And I was like, this can't happen. Like this, I'm not saying I have to go to all the things. I don't even want to go to all the things. But you should not stutter, stumble, hiccup over the introduction of, hey, there's this thing at this HBCU. You went to an HBCU andor you are black. Is this something one we should go to? And two, would you want to go?

Kristin 28:44

Yeah.

Zakiya 28:45

And then we can kind of, you know, go back and forth about the yeses and the noes. And so that actually was a thing that I don't think anyone anticipated would be the underutilization for fear of tokenization. And I was losing in that way. Some of those are places I could have networked for myself professionally. But people were, you know, beautifully trying not to be the person that like throws the black girl to every black thing. And so I think I was actually missing out on some stuff. Whereas now I would want anyone I work for to be also thinking about where we might utilize this beautifully diverse staff in the fullness of what feels comfortable for them. And so, even for me, I've started to ask my colleagues and peers, like, in what ways can I utilize you? What parts of your identity are available to this org at this time in your career? And people have been really generous with like, I'm like, I know you might put this in your bio. Can we use this? And people have been like, yeah, sure. So it's been, it's been interesting to kind of take a thing that I think is rightfully has been a speed bump at times and has certainly probably been very problematic, and then figure out how do I um wield it and take back some of that power around it. I think it took some time, but I think I'm like better able to navigate it now. And and I think that times have changed. There is still a lot of work to be done. Um yeah, it's a lot of work to be done.

Kristin 30:16

And there's something here that that I want to kind of pull out for well-meaning white people. And that is I think a a lesson that can be taken away in this moment is to ask. Your point is if they had asked you if you felt comfortable representing the organization in black spaces, you would have said, hell yeah. Someone else might have said, please no, you know, and that's okay, but the ask is what matters.

Zakiya 30:44

That's true. Because I I've said that about immigration, right? Like I'm from the global north and my country speaks English, and I have a British passport. Those are a lot of privileges inside the immigration space. And so should I be the one speaking on behalf of immigrants? Probably not all the time, right? Like that may not be the best quote unquote immigrant story, but if I'm the only immigrant you have, am I an immigrant? My story is still valid. And so I am allowed entry into that space and I can hold it. At the same time, I know it's probably not in the boldest of fonts in a larger space, but it is still a story, and I'm still eligible to be here. So I think it is about like we should each constantly be checking and then be as self-aware as we can around kind of where and when we fit. And if we fit, um, we're not always the best one to do the thing. Just because we have that identity, someone else might be far better positioned.

Kristin 31:41

I love all of this. I talk with you about fundraising all day, but I want to switch to our lightning round.

Zakiya 31:49

Sure.

Kristin 31:49

This is questions that I ask everyone. Fast answers. Don't overthink it, but definitely feel free to add stories. Um, the first question is what was your very first job and what did it teach you about work?

Zakiya 32:00

The first job I will name, I would input news stories for the teleprompter at our local news station a couple nights a week. And it was just typing. Literally, did it like have a story and you just need to type it into the teleprompter. And I think the thing that I would highlight is they they thought in seconds, right? They're like, oh, we still have like 60 seconds. You can get that in there. And I'm like sweating, right? And I just, I'm like 16, and you know, I just think, yikes, it was rough. And then you would literally, there are some days I'd I'd be gone by the time the news is coming on if I've done my job well. But there's some days where I'm I know I'm just off screen, right? And that they are like out here, they're drinking coffee, they're like putting on makeup, they might be using profanity. And then when the screen comes on, they are ready. And so they know what the world sees and what I see is different. And I think what I would take away, and I hadn't thought about that, is that that is often the case in most jobs, is that what people see and what you experience in the role, they are not the same and they're not meant to be. And sometimes I think folks want what comes across the screen to be the same thing that's behind. And I just think it sets people up for disappointment. I think, particularly in the nonprofit space and the philanthropic space, and for folks who are newer to their careers, they can they can just hold these orgs in such high esteem and expect them to be all things to all people, and for them to get everything aligned. And yeah, I just don't know if that is reasonable. And so I think that the teleprompter job where like I see what they're doing back here, I hear how she talks when she's not on screen, and I know it was a mess literally 10 seconds ago, and now everybody's composed and ready and doing their job. And I think that's important. It's like, what job are you here to do? I need you to do it. Um, and I think I I think I may have taken that from there. The rest of it comes out in the wash.

Kristin 34:04

That's an incredible lesson to pull. Wow. And at such a young age, what is the best or worst piece of advice you've ever gotten?

Zakiya 34:12

Best advice, I think, is always make a friend before you need a friend. Like that is like words to live by. I don't know if that's a work advice, but I certainly think like it means like don't have expectations, you know? Be nice to your neighbor before you need a cup of sugar, right? Like that is certainly the plan. And and also inherent in that is not be nice to those people, you may need them one day. That's not it. And I think that's important to make that distinction. There's daylight between those two sentiments. Your job and your goal is not to need people. I hope to live a life I don't actually need a friend, but I do want to be a friend, you know, and I want to engage in the world as such. So make a friend before you need a friend, I think is probably like a life like goal, north star. I think the worst piece of advice, stay in the closet. Right? Like that was bad advice. Um, I get it, I understand what it's steeped in, and I also think that real harm comes when you hide yourself. I think that people can feel inauthenticity. And even if you don't know what it is, but there's a veneer on people, people can sense it even if they can't put their finger on it.

Kristin 35:22

A hundred percent.

Zakiya 35:23

They really can. And I think the closet would have been a very, very thick veneer for me.

Kristin 35:28

Yeah.

Zakiya 35:29

Or totally that. Yeah, I think that would have been the worst piece of advice.

Kristin 35:33

Yeah. That's a good one. What's your most embarrassing work story?

Zakiya 35:39

I took some young people to a home for a smaller dinner. And when I got there, I think the person may have been more inebriated than anticipated early in the night. And I just remember thinking, do we leave now or do we stay? And also feeling responsible. And then, and they pulled it together, but I just remember this sense of I shouldn't have, this was a bad idea. You know, like this is a bad idea, this was my idea. I definitely thought it was gonna go different. This is not good, right? And I was embarrassed for the person who was seen out of it. I was embarrassed for myself, and I was embarrassed for the young person who absolutely felt stuck. You know, I mean I was like, and then it also it also came all came out in the wash being a great time later. But I can feel that moment. Like, do we sneak out while they're, you know?

Kristin 36:35

Or do we yeah, just this sense of like, yeah, that it's awkward either way. I was like, because I had hyped them up so much. But it all worked out. It all worked out. Yeah. What is a socially acceptable work vice that you have? Something that gets you through your day.

Zakiya 36:54

I tend to write letters on work calls and appear interested, even if I'm not. And recently I've taken to coloring on calls as well. Like um, there's this like monochromatic coloring book where you don't even have to pick the color. It's all black. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have it. It's so good. It is so good. It is so good. Um, so I think those are things I am enjoying. And in person, I have been carrying Scrabble Slam, this little card game in my bag. I used to carry it all the time, and I stopped, and I've been bringing it back because I think big city and nonprofits have more introverts in it than people think.

Kristin 37:35

That's true.

Zakiya 37:35

And so I'm an extrovert, and so I can expect others to be that way, and they're not. And so um, like a quick card game can bring us all into the flow much easier than um trying to be like, so what do you like? What's your dog? What talking about your cats, your kids? Like, I just think it can go like actually, my son's an introvert, and so he's taught me a lot of like he does not want your questions. Like, there's no question you can ask that's gonna make him less shy. It'll just make him more shy. He just goes further and further. But if you engage him in a thing that he can do, then he will probably say something quicker. And I think that there are adults who are like that too. Um, and I've seen it work. So those are like in-person and like online devices, I think, that I actively pursue to be like, okay, where's my coloring book? This meeting may not go great. I don't, let me get it. Um, and then making sure there's something in my bag so we can all have a good time. That's just amazing.

Kristin 38:36

Um, an extrovert's hack to making friends with introverts. I love that. Do you fix typos in casual communication?

Zakiya 38:44

Like non-work? Like texting with your friends or like Absolutely not. They they do not deserve, they they know that love looks like this typo. That is what love looks like. And all those memes that are like, you know, I love you because I don't fix my typos, that's me.

Kristin 39:02

Yeah.

Zakiya 39:02

Like I, there are days when I go back to read it, even I do not know what I have said. And I'm just like, girl, you have taken it too far. This is bad. Like, and my friends are like, oh, I knew what you meant. And then other days she's like, I just couldn't get it. I couldn't, I couldn't find it. I don't know what there's no noun in this sentence. You're kidding. You're missing all your vowels. That's right. I'm like, you cannot, the noun can't have a lot of typos because they can't get there. And so I'm trying to work on it because they say it makes you seem less credible if you have typos in your emails and stuff. And so I don't have them in my emails, but I a text message. There are days and I'm like, I think spell check hates me. Like, I did not type this. It's like it changed after it got sent.

Kristin 39:50

Yes. Some days I do think that spell check has just changed on me. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But I agree. I think it's a it's a symbol of love and and like comfort with someone.

Zakiya 40:01

Absolutely.

Kristin 40:02

And when they can understand your typos, they love you, you know? They love you. That's it.

Zakiya 40:07

They know exactly what I mean. Yeah. I'm like, oh, sorry about that. They're like, I know what you mean.

Kristin 40:11

I'm like, thank you. Thank you for seeing me.

Zakiya 40:14

Exactly. Almost like, who needs to go back? You're gonna miss the the like version of it, you know. If I wait and pause and oh, mm-mm. You need to feel this energy. Totally with you. Totally.

Kristin 40:28

What would your advice be to someone who feels off track right now?

Zakiya 40:32

I would ask them to like recount a thing that they like the last time they felt like held, seen, and valuable, like at work, and then figure out what's the like lowest hanging fruit for them, right? So if they were unemployed, for example, I would be like, what can you go do that would be useful and valuable and like would fuel some part of your soul and like pay you? And then if they were doing well but felt off track, I would ask them to figure out like what is fueling that dis dissatisfaction, and then decide if maybe they've ascended too high, you know? But I would certainly like everyone deserves to feel how I feel on my good days. Like on my good days, I am like a hundred meter like hurdler, and I am I know people are watching. That's my favorite. Like, I know I have this, I am hurdling, you know what I mean, and I'm fast and I'm like, I feel like I'm at ease. I would encourage people to remember a time when they felt like they were soaring, and then not focus on the title of that job or the location or even the boss, but like try to create bigger buckets. Because I think sometimes we get stuck on the specifics as opposed to the broader sentiments. So, like, what are you actually good at?

Kristin 41:54

Yeah.

Zakiya 41:55

Like, what is the thing that you can offer to a community, an environment, a neighborhood, a job, and like take titles off of it. Um, and so I really would encourage us all to really look at the like bigger picture. This is a big, big, broad world. You know, and you don't always get paid times to do it. You don't, it isn't always glamorous. You may not get to go to fancy parties, you may not even get to wear a nice dress. Like, none of those are a promise to you in the work that you do, but like in your day-to-day, will you feel more joy than pain? Is the question.

Kristin 42:32

Yeah. That's a really good answer. Um Thank you. I ask folks usually if they want to promote anything, and that's a lot of times, you know, they own their own business or whatever. But I'm asking you, in case you want to promote your organization or anything, any personal projects.

Zakiya 42:51

Yeah, I think um, I think in this time, um one of the things I I typically say to donor advisors I'm working with is like a framework I have is like encourage people with resources to think through like something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue. And I think that is helpful for me. And I would encourage folks, I think my org, Climate Equity Fund, is a good example, is that you don't have to understand all of climate to know that there are black and brown folks who are doing this work across this nation, who are better positioned to tell their stories and to utilize resources, but who are not given the microphone. And so I think people should go looking for the thing that they are not being fed. So if that's an org that maybe is a little outside of your realm, but like probably needs to have more resources, go find it. If there's a um even a social media account in a city or in a state that you do not live in that you know will never be in the Washington Post, just follow them. Like these are the things I think that will get us out of our bubbles and will help us to expand our perspective in ways that don't actually require a lot. I really hope folks will allow themselves to create like a bare minimum that they need from an institution, a fundraiser, or a leader to make themselves feel comfortable and let that be the bar. And then give, volunteer, engage, read their reports. Like Climate Equity Fund is a really worthwhile institution with strong leadership and really like smart staff and are funded at the intersection of like climate and racial justice. And both of those things are important. So I agree.

Kristin 44:35

I think like even just helping people be aware that public institutions, intermediaries exist and can get that money to the ground. That's 100%. That's something that we need to talk about.

Zakiya 44:46

They really, really can. Um they can and they're they're they're necessary in this current climate because there's a lot of resources to be moved, and the big ones can't always do it.

Kristin 45:04

There's so much here, and I actually want to keep my reflections short because I think Sakia had so many incredible things to say that I mean, what could I possibly add? But I what I want to really want to center is her reflections around using our gifts and not burying them. Knowing that we have a gift and not letting that flourish in our lives is such a mistake, especially in this moment. So she talks about going back into leadership, not for status, but because this moment really requires us to lean into what we're good at. And she is good at leadership. So I think I really just want this to be a little bit of an invitation for all of us to sit with ourselves and really think about what our gifts are and how we use our strengths in our daily lives. And then let's not be obsessed with the details, the details either of how specifically we're using our gifts, what that title is, where we're going, what are we climbing? It's not always that those are the questions that we want to ask. I think the questions we want to ask are how fulfilled are we? And how much are we feeling our own strengths be alive in this moment in whatever it is we're doing? How are we adding value to our lives and to our communities through a real sense of who we are and a strength and commitment to making sure that we're showing up fully? Thanks for listening to everything counts, but nothing is real. Remember, even when nothing feels real, everything you do counts. Capitalism may be absurd, but so are we. And on that note, well, it's been real. Don't forget to subscribe. I'm Kristen. I'll see you next time.