Brielle: You can have many lives.

In this episode, Kristin sits down with Brielle (she, her), one of the first friends she made after moving to New York City and someone whose career has always been marked by a rare sense of intentionality.

Brielle works in corporate social impact, helping large organizations connect their resources to nonprofit partners and community needs. But her path didn’t begin in corporate boardrooms. It started with volunteering as a kid, working at a small women’s rights nonprofit in New York, and asking a lot of questions about how change actually happens.

In this conversation, Kristin and Brielle reflect on early career uncertainty, the surprising culture shock of moving from nonprofit scrappiness into corporate life, and what it means to build a career with purpose. They talk about informational interviews, meditation, leadership, parenting, and how perspective shifts as we grow older.

Along the way, Brielle shares a simple but powerful reminder: you don’t just get one career or one version of yourself. Over time, we all get the chance to build many lives.

Transcript

Kristin 0:03

Welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real, a podcast about careers, detours, and the absurdity of work. Here we explore the twists, the pivots, and the tiny choices that shape our work lives with humor, feminism, and honesty. I'm your host, Kristen. Let's get into it. Hello and welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real. Today's guest is one of my first friends that I made in New York City. So I feel like she's someone who grew up alongside me. And I think that our career paths haven't been all that different. But the thing that makes them different is the way that she embodies intentionality more than most people that I know. Something that I really admire about her. Brielle, she her, leads social impact activation for a leading professional services organization, overseeing the Eastern U.S. and managing key strategic nonprofit relationships and leading employee volunteerism. Previously, she served as global talent management and community engagement manager at a global financial services company where she led workforce development initiatives for underrepresented talent, integrated community engagement into the talent lifecycle, and served on the company's Political Action Committee board. Earlier in her career, Brielle was a grantmaker and community engagement lead at a national bank and supported grantmaking and employee volunteerism at a healthcare foundation. She began her career as a program manager for a women's advocacy organization in New York City, sparking her passion for leveraging resources for good. Brielle holds an MA in Philanthropic Studies from Indiana University and dual BAs in Women's and Gender Studies and Psychology from Rutgers University. She lives in New York City with her partner and two young kids. Brielle, welcome. Thank you. So happy to be chatting with you, Kristen. I'm so excited and I have so many questions and so many things I want to catch up on. But I want to start with the now, and I want you to tell us what you do right now. What is your job?

Brielle 2:07

So I suppose in an elevator pitch, I would say my role, I work for a large professional services organization. And while I don't provide those types of services per se, I work within the organization, really facing employees and facing the external community, nonprofit organizations, particularly. And I'm all about understanding the great resources that my organization has and how those can be harnessed to support the broader external community.

Kristin 2:39

So it's very philanthropy adjacent. Like you're in philanthropy in the way that I am, but in like such a different way. So that's one thing that makes your work really interesting to me. And we'll get into that more in a second. But will you tell me right now what's what's lighting you up? What's giving you hope in this moment? Yeah.

Brielle 2:58

Well, I guess from a professional perspective, one thing that I feel really privileged to do is that yes, my role is philanthropic adjacent or philanthropic related. And um some would call this corporate social responsibility, although that's not necessarily in my title or department. But all that to say, I have the opportunity to connect with and meet so many different nonprofit organizations, community organizations, folks that are out in the world trying to do good, mission-driven. And that makes me excited and happy and meeting all of these problem solvers, all these folks who are identifying the different challenges we face and coming up with different services, tools, solutions to fix those challenges, make the world a better place. I get to see that every day. And even though I might not be intimately involved with that work, just getting to witness it, maybe fund it or find volunteers to support it is really fun and exciting.

Kristin 4:06

That's beautiful and special. You're right. Like in this moment where, you know, I think we all have to orient ourselves to the good, you're getting to facilitate it and see it. And I think that's incredible. I want to talk about the foundation of your life, the things that may have shaped you into who you are today. This is where we talk about astrology, birth order, and just family, like the things that we experienced as kids that may have shaped us.

Brielle 4:30

Well, I, in terms of astrology and birth order, I'm a twin. So I don't know what that means for me. Although I will say, actually, now that I think about it, as a twin, you often feel like you're part of a dichotomy, part of a binary. And it's like, I can be this and my twin can be that. We can't be the same thing.

Kristin 4:50

Yeah.

Brielle 4:50

So while my twin growing up was super sporty and externally probably very social and active in all these ways, I was more academic and focused on caring for people in a less outwardly extrovert way, more of like an introvert, you know, one-on-one helping people. I guess that that was how we we differed. But yeah, I'd probably go back to that. Um, in terms of family and how I kind of ended up here, I would say I was always really interested in helping people and like doing the right thing, caring for people. I realize that's super vague, but I have these memories of like as a kid getting I don't even know where I got this idea. I probably read it in like Girls' Life magazine, where you could adopt a family for Christmas and you know, convincing my mom to let me use some of her money to like buy a box of toys to send to someone. I remember going to Walmart and like stocking up on stuff and a CD for this child's mom. Anyway, always really, really like interested in other people and helping other people. I started when I was in middle school volunteering for my local hospital. And when I was in high school, volunteered for a local women's shelter and ended up answering their hotline, going through this training so I could answer a hotline for individuals who were experiencing sexual assault, domestic violence situations, stayed working with them for a number of years. But that actually started out as me going in on Friday nights to host a movie night for the kids who are staying at the shelter. So anyway, all of that to say, I had a lot of interest in just like other people and like wanting to like put my arms around other people, so to speak. And I'll also share, I was the first in my family to go to college. So, in terms of like how to take these interests and evolve them into a career, I really didn't have a lot to go off of. Like most of the individuals in my family have very blue-collar jobs. And I didn't really have a lot of role models, at least in a familial way, of like, oh, I could be this, I could work here, I could do this. So I was really going into like school and career from this very like not blind, but I guess kind of blind perspective and um thinking about, well, I like this nonprofit that I worked for, and I'd love being a volunteer in this way.

Kristin 7:28

Maybe I could turn that into a job. This is part of why I love this podcast, is I like get to learn about my friends in different ways because to me, you you are like a very grounded, very responsible person. And it's kind of fun to think about you being that way as a little kid. You're like very much wanting to help. That's a perfect segue into your career and into how we met. Because we met, I volunteered at an organization that you were working at. So tell us about that.

Brielle 7:57

Well, as you mentioned in my bio opening, I got a dual degree in women's and gender studies and psychology. And um, I remember someone's mom when I graduated said, honey, all you're gonna get with that is a quarter and a phone call. And at the time I was, I didn't really understand that comment, but I was so determined to like, I just loved that topic and I loved thinking about how the world is structured and not necessarily equitable to whole populations of people and really interested in what I can do to support women and girls and bring resources to them. So anyway, we met when I was working for a women's rights organization in New York City. And it was 2010 when I got that job, which was, you know, coming off of 2009, 2008, financial crisis. Like it felt like at the time there were no jobs to be had, and it's especially dire in the nonprofit sector where fundraising was really down. But I was told later by my boss at the time that the reason I was able to get that job was because something that she saw was that I was super active when I was in college in different human rights organizations, had a lot of work experience. So she really appreciated that I was very much like this subject matter expert and had already had this work experience. I worked at this organization for I think about four years, and we met there. And when I was there, we put together a volunteer training series, for lack of a better word, to really create a way to develop a more sustainable mechanism for training and retaining volunteer talent and getting more people trained up on how to be a lobbyist in Albany as an example. So I was excited because it was a very tiny office of three people, including me. And those two other individuals were a bit older than me. And so I was excited to just have this program where I could like maybe make friends and meet people my age. So I was very thrilled to connect with you and have a friend at work, so to speak.

Kristin 10:15

Yeah, I mean, a whole group of we like a whole group of people sort of formed out of that one initiative. Yes.

Brielle 10:23

And I still have it came up on like a a memory on my photos of us doing um a training on how to make content go viral on social media. And us like sitting in this pseudo living room nonprofit office just felt so very specific to that era of like early 2010s that I I want to go, I don't want to go back to it, but I do in so many ways. Um, I missed, I definitely miss that.

Kristin 10:54

It was, it was definitely a specific time. And it was really cute, like thinking, you know, op-eds and social media, like all of that has changed so much, but what a simpler time in that regard.

Brielle 11:06

Yes. Everything felt more straightforward in so many ways. Like it really did. More formulaic, more straightforward.

Kristin 11:13

The internet was more like contained and yeah, yeah. Oh man, in those days, I spent so much of my time just reading like blogs and like Jezebel. Like I the internet was just so plain and boring back then.

Brielle 11:30

So easy. The hairpin, so much so easier to digest. So it's so like, yes. It really was. I miss it.

Kristin 11:37

Um, okay, during this time, we're young, we're young people, and we're both working at nonprofits, and we're like, what does the future hold for us? Are we ever gonna make money? Like actual money, and you know, how's it all gonna shake out? And so it's kind of cute to think about like going back in time and telling our 20-something selves that we're doing okay. While I was like, I don't know, something's gonna work out. You were like, I'm gonna go make something happen. And you set your sights on the corporate social responsibility world. And again, this is where that intentionality comes in that like I don't see in a lot of people. But you were like, I'm gonna go do this. Can you tell me about that process? How you started to explore it?

Brielle 12:21

Working in the nonprofit space and especially, you know, women's rights, a few things. Day in, day out, you are usually focused on an issue that's it can feel like you are pushing a rock up a hill and you're not getting the progress maybe you'd like. So there's a lot of like emotion, not negativity, but more like an exhaustion to just like, we're trying to move the needle on this issue. We're trying to ask for funders for support. And this is just like it can be a slog. And part of that job too included following the news, reacting to the news, putting out press releases, hosting press rallies, like all these things that you know, you just feel like you're on this constant battle treadmill. So the transition was a mix of me feeling this like slow pace of change, seeing also when we'd go to Albany and advocate for certain bills, the change is happening by these legislators and they're being pressured by business owners. Like change is happening in different ways, not just hearing from nonprofits or activists. And then, two, the organization had an annual fundraising gala that was a big part of our role for the years I was there, and getting to interact with the individuals at the corporations who are buying these tables, putting a $25,000 table on somebody's credit card. Like that just blew my mind. And I thought, well, these individuals who I presume have a lot of resources to buy these tables and fund the organization, they have the power and the money to push us or support us and push this agenda forward that we're trying to struggle with. So it was kind of this culmination of like, who has resources, who has power? I want to be someone who has power. And not to say that I am the best voice in the room, but from what I witnessed and what I experienced, when you have the resources, when you can harness other people and bring them together, that is where the change happens or the change can happen. So I think it was it was just a lot of that of like following the money and thinking about if I were on a different side of this, would I see results differently? Would I be able to advocate for a change that I see experience in? And I also saw so many corporations kind of leaning into this quote unquote new concept of CSR. And there were kind of like rumblings about it on LinkedIn, and I would say new phrases or new keywords coming up, like social impact, social innovation. And I feel like I just it just kind of came into the popular vernacular. And I thought, well, if I was there and I could take all of the experience I have in this nonprofit world and advocate for better outcomes for nonprofit organizations like myself, community outcomes where these companies operate and have people, maybe my voice can help steer resources in an even more effective way.

Kristin 15:24

That's so good and deep and real. Like at the end of the day, we all hate to admit it, but corporations have a lot of power and they have the ability to like move more quickly. So there is more opportunity to like make quick change for better or worse.

Brielle 15:39

Yes, that's absolutely true.

Kristin 15:41

So, how did you make it happen?

Brielle 15:43

So I started out just cold calling people on LinkedIn and saying this was in 2012, I think, reaching out to people on LinkedIn and like I had a whole spiel set up of I'd love to have a 20-minute informational call with you. I see you're in this role. Here are my questions. You, you know, if you have time, you can email me back or we could talk. And nine times out of 10, people were like, sure. So at the time, folks seemed pretty enthused to talk to me. And I heard from folks at all different companies who gave me advice, everything from go get an MBA, go get an MPA, to this job is really boring. Do you really want it? It's just a desk job, to, yeah, it's okay. It's a team of one, it's really lonely. Advice that really ran the gamut. And one of the questions that I asked that's actually continued to be helpful to me was where do you go for news in this area? Like, where's the watering hole for these people? And what are the blogs, resources, news, outlets, whatever that you're following that kind of help you understand where you might want to steer the strategy for your company. And some folks said, you know, you need to know your business, which I still agree with that as well. But it's also good to know like what other companies are doing and how they form their social strategy, all of that. So there were a lot of great resources that were shared with me then that I still use and will share with others. And with that, those informational calls, I started applying for roles that fit this and applied for one on Indeed. I did not have any connections there. Apparently, one of the hiring people on the team, um, who was a program officer at this corporate healthcare foundation really liked the nonprofit I was working for, which lucky for me continues to this day to have like branding cachet. So she was like, let's bring her in for an interview. And anyway, long story short, that was a great first taste of corporate life. It was a great training ground for me. And that organization focused just in one state. And from there moved on to an organization that had a national focus. So anyway, it was a good stepping stone and a really good um training ground.

Kristin 18:06

Tell me about how you kept learning more about the industry and where specifically you wanted to sit inside of it. Because I feel like you held different kinds of roles.

Brielle 18:15

You know, what I've learned and what I'll I've told other people too is like this department, where it's housed within an organization, speaks to how the organization values it. Like if your CSR team is in marketing, it's probably viewed as a marketing tool, and that's fine. But there may not be the same resources attributed to it if it were a standalone department that reports up to the CEO. So in my roles and my evolution, I went from a CSR role that was again a company that was just focused in one specific state, which was great, a great training ground, and then moved to a national organization where my focus was still Northeast geography. But I had the reach of like, now I'm part of a national team and our focus areas are related to the company's mission, which I found really exciting. I think it was like this, I guess, evolution of learning more about these different social impact subject areas as related to the company's bottom line and mission, and building expertise in those areas and getting even more excited if it was like an area, an issue area I was particularly excited in. But then also like flexing the, okay, now it's like local, now it's wider. And then the role I had after that one was at a global company. So I had a global scope and leaning into the evolution of like where is this team based within the organization? How does the organization value it? At the global company I worked for, the CSR department was within HR. So it was very much a play on talent lifecycle, connecting employee volunteerism and community engagement to key milestones in how somebody grows in their career from being an intern to succession planning and retirement. So I think it's just been like being part of different teams and getting to grow the expertise based on the point of view and cause area values of the company.

Kristin 20:22

Tell me some of the things that surprised you, or were just a bit of a culture shock from going from nonprofits into corporate land.

Brielle 20:31

Well, the first thing that I think about was that my manager at my first corporate company was very much like, okay, things move fast here. Like, hope you can cut it. And I thought, well, at a nonprofit, you're wearing 20 million hats at once. I can do this. And in my first week, I was, I think, like refilling the printer with paper. And I just thought, wow, we don't need to use the back of paper that's already been printed on. We have like brand new paper here. We don't have to use scrap paper. Like just the, I mean, at my nonprofit, we were very scrappy. I would occupy on Fridays. That was like one of my chores on Friday afternoon. So I think just like being in an environment where it wasn't so, so scrappy, and we kind of had the elbow room to, okay, we have some resources here. We have the breathing space to think and strategize and not just be on our toes all the time. Like that was that was, I think, some of the biggest culture shock, just having that environment difference. And I really loved that there was a performance management process. Like I'm a very operations, you know, minded person and did not have that at our tiny, tiny nonprofit. I loved that.

Kristin 21:52

I I still love it. Yeah. Oh man. I once went from a small nonprofit to a large nonprofit simply because I wanted to know what it felt like to. Have HR. What's it like to have like an HR function? So nice. I don't play.

Brielle 22:07

I get it. I I love it.

Kristin 22:10

I also want if you have any stories of like cool shit that you've done in these roles, because I know that it's not all cool and fancy, but like you've done some cool things, sponsored some cool events. I feel like you got to be in some kind of interesting rooms and spaces.

Brielle 22:26

Yeah. So I was a grant maker. I had an opportunity to do a lot of site visits with nonprofit organizations and be part of a funder collaborative that was this like super niche, techie focused funding collaborative, and got to meet a lot of startupy nonprofits that were trying to solve different New York City focused challenges. I would say maybe for some that's not so exciting, but just getting to meet different organizations, be in their space, see the amazing stuff they're doing, that is always a highlight of any role. I've um worked with a few organizations that are like social impact adventures and are using AI and technology to try to solve social issues and learning about these organizations that are getting really creative with how they're trying to solve people's medical bills and having erroneous billing codes on their medical bills or trying to help people solve challenges related to finding housing, things like that that impact so many New Yorkers and people all over the world. Just so exciting and fascinating to learn about these organizations and find ways to support them. I also have the opportunity to go to a lot of nonprofit galas as an attendee, which is something that I think sounds very exciting. And it is, I'm always very honored and excited to go. But where I am right now, the organization I'm at now, we try to think of it as like a networking opportunity and an opportunity to connect with others. And oftentimes I well see other folks I know there who are CSR peers at other other companies. But it's like, okay, it's the end of the day. I'm wearing this fancy dress, and now I have the pressure of like networking with people and it can be stressful, but I've seen some really amazing events, and there's one in particular that happens every year in New York City that I am very honored to be able to have a seat at. All that to say, it's probably yeah, one of the cooler parts of the job.

Kristin 24:36

One time you made one of my dreams come true when you invited me as a guest to a gala that was honoring Bethany Frankel. Yes. Oh my God. So I got to see Bethany Frankel on stage. So thank you for making that dream come true for me. You're so welcome. Let's talk about your life and how life intersects with our careers, whether we like it or not. You do have two young children. So talk to us about navigating being a mom and being a professional and any anything in there.

Brielle 25:13

Uh, I have a partner who thankfully has a great role and his company is a very much like nine to five set hours kind of organization. So we're able to share our caregiving duties and handoffs. And he's very understanding when I have night events, because that's the nature of the job. I also think having children has also very much because I started this CSR career without kids. And having children just shifts your perspective on the value of so many things that we're trying to support. Like I have a new perspective on education and the New York City public school system. I have a new perspective on the kids and financial education, a new perspective on emergency services and resources for people in need. Like I feel like having children has been a new part of my evolution as a human. But all that to say, being a caregiver just gives you all kinds of new EQ. And I think that's important in this work, in all work, but especially in this work.

Kristin 26:27

It's also like as someone without kids, it's also very much about having kids, but also about getting older. Like the older I get, the more I'm like, I cannot believe the things that used to upset me at work. And now I'm like, whatever. Life's too short. But so I imagine that kids adds like a layer to that where you're like, I cannot get upset about this. I have so many things to hold.

Brielle 26:51

Yes. Oh yeah. And prioritization and just kind of cutting through the noise. So I I definitely work differently than I did 15 years ago, 20 years ago.

Kristin 27:04

Okay. This reminds me to ask you about meditation. You are into meditation and I want to know does it impact how you show up as an employee and as a mom?

Brielle 27:17

Yes, for sure. I find that meditation for me has been helpful in a few ways. But I think about like my style years ago, my boss called me out on this, my first corporate job, was that I was too quick to action. And I needed to take a pause before quickly replying to that email and be more thoughtful about my approach. And while being, you know, super helpful and wanting to inbox zero at the time, maybe that's not always the right decision. And meditation for me is kind of that, like the forced pause and the quieting of the monkey mind and the acceptance of I don't need to have thought, action, thought, action, thought, action. I can take a beat. This idea or concern can come through, and I don't necessarily need to do something about it. I can come back to it later, or maybe it just resolves. Like thoughts and ideas are not necessarily facts and action items. That's probably been like the number one thing related to work. And I think too, just the meditation being an intentional creation of pause and that intentionality, that building that pause in. When I was on maternity leave last year, I took a meditation class that was all about the joy of uncertainty. And it was meditation, but also a close reading of this one foundational Buddhist writing. And I guess without getting in the weeds, it really struck me as not thinking of joy as like, hooray, we're having a party, throw out the balloons, but joy more so as this acceptance of it is what it is. Right now, this is how it is. In the next breath, it will be different, and on and on and on. And so taking that perspective more so into like at the time being at home with an infant and the struggle of like, right now things are really hard, but I know in the next moment it could be different. And the next moment after that, it could be different. So I think similarly at work, that same like in and out, in and out, and knowing that like we might be doing something really hard right now or really challenging or having a difficult conversation, but this is not the end. The ocean waves will roll in again and there will be something new and something new and something new.

Kristin 29:45

That's beautiful. If you were listening to this podcast and wanting to get out a little nugget of advice, that's it. It's that you're allowed to slow down and you're allowed to not always have the answers. And like it's something that I in my current role, I think it changes in different environments. But in my environment right now, it is a practice of mine to not make a decision on a call. Someone calls me and says, This is my problem. What are we doing? I will not answer because my gut is usually to be like, do it. Let's let's do it. Um, and so now I'll say, I will call you tomorrow and we will have another discussion and then we can decide. Because I think the like pressure to make decisions all the time is not good for us and it leads to weird decisions sometimes.

Brielle 30:30

Yes, yes, yes.

Kristin 30:31

So I love that. I I wholly support that we're not built to be like that. Okay, I have a maybe one question before the lightning round. Actually, it ties perfectly into thinking about meditation. I want to know what success means to you right this second.

Brielle 30:48

Well, I became a people leader in summer 2024. And I had not been a people leader before. Like I did not have official people leader responsibilities prior. And in the time since I've really been thoughtful about I don't know what I'm doing. How do I do right by my team? And so for me, when I think about success, it comes back to kind of the same philosophy for how I live my life personally. Like, how do I make other people feel? And am I at work showing up as a leader that people want to work with and in my personal life too? How am I making people feel? So I think success is that I'm showing up in a way that I would see in others and appreciate. And then my hope, my intention is that the success of my strategy, the success of my management, the success of how we do work would come based on that.

Kristin 31:49

I love that. I think that's the right kind of anchor when you're a people manager because you're gonna get pulled in so many directions. You have to have an anchor. Okay, let's do the lightning round. This is a list of questions I ask all of my guests. No overthinking. Tell me what your very first job was and what did it teach you about work?

Brielle 32:10

My very first job was babysitting. I think I started babysitting at 11. But my first W-2 was in retail at 16. My parents were very much like the day you turn 16, you are getting a job because you are paying for yourself now. Any shampoo or special face creams you want, it's on you. And I think not so much the job, but actually having to juggle school, working, extracurriculars. Like there were times where I would be working until nine o'clock at night, closing the store, and then come home and do homework till midnight and then like start it again the next day. So I learned very much to manage my time and discipline, self-discipline. And my partner and I argue on this. He he had a very different uh high school experience. But I'm like, yep, my kids are gonna be the same. They got to get a job. These are skills that are important uh to be determined. I don't know what the world will look like in 15, 10, 15 years. But yes, I think those life skills from having to juggle the job on top of everything else when I was 16.

Kristin 33:19

What is the best or worst piece of advice you've ever gotten?

Brielle 33:23

I took a career in college counseling course when I was in high school. And this was in 2002, 2003-ish. And the teacher was like, go to whatever school you want. The money will figure itself out, as in like how much it costs tuition. Yeah. And that was such bad advice for our millennial generation that graduated with so much debt and student loans. I was, you know, my parents did not pay for my college. So I had to take out loans. And thankfully they were not that big and I've been able to pay them off. But bad advice. I wish I had been more thoughtful about financing my college journey.

Kristin 34:03

Yep. Just shaking my head in agreement. What is your most embarrassing work story?

Brielle 34:10

So this is really embarrassing. A few jobs ago, I was expecting my first paycheck and it never came. And I had a feeling that I entered my bank account wrong into the employee paperwork. And so I did. I left off a digit. And so I had to email the head of like payroll, who was someone I was also like working with, to explain, oh, I think I entered my bank account incorrectly and I didn't get my paycheck. And can you help me? And this was not that long. I mean, this was like in the past, you know, seven years. And I thought, man, I'm supposed to be a professional and know what I'm doing, but I didn't even do this correctly. Oh gosh, this is this is I'm getting off on the wrong foot. This is like my first two weeks of work. That was very embarrassing.

Kristin 34:59

Did you know that I've done the exact same thing? Really? Yes. And it was probably, it sounds like about the same time ago. It was like seven years ago. I was starting a job and I didn't get my page. And I think and I like had entered my bank account wrong. And I felt I was also like hired as a director. I was trying to cosplay like a responsible adult. Oh my gosh.

Brielle 35:23

That makes me feel better. Because I I really have I just like to this day still feel like embarrassed about it. But did did the HR person make you feel bad about it?

Kristin 35:32

Or was it like no, they were so nice. It was like thankfully a very large organization and it was an easy fix, but you're not alone. Oh thank you. I I actually feel so much better. Wow. Um, but as I second you started telling that story, I was like, oh my God, I have that same embarrassing story. We're all just flawed. What is your socially acceptable work vice?

Brielle 36:00

Probably a really good playlist. Spotify says my listening age is age 60. So maybe that gives some indication of what I'm listening to. And a really like well-fitting work outfit. Love that. It's like armor.

Kristin 36:18

Yeah. Like I look good. I know what I'm talking about. I'm rocking it. I love fashion as a vice. Um, what is something about your job that sounds impressive, but actually isn't that glamorous?

Brielle 36:33

Many folks are interested in in CSR and it is a great, great space to be in. I think it can often sound more fun, crazy cool, exciting than it might be in the day-to-day. We do kind of everything. And I think it can often sound like a more exciting role than sometimes it is in the day-to-day.

Kristin 36:55

That's fair. The attendance of galas, which is also in my line of work, is not as glamorous as it sounds. Yes. Yes.

Brielle 37:04

Um I don't have to expense those gowns. And I just now I have a black tie gala on my schedule for March, and I'm thinking, I don't know what I'm going to wear.

Kristin 37:18

Do you fix typos in casual communication?

Brielle 37:21

Honestly, when I first heard your podcast ask this question, I thought you were asking if you correct other people. And I thought to myself, yeah, I do. I definitely do. I definitely use that text edit button. And I have a two-minute delay on my work email so that I can be like, oh crap, I forgot this or I said this wrong. Let me look at this again and fix it. So yes, I I really have a casual conversation, but all that to say, I think I'm always like censoring myself and editing.

Kristin 37:57

You're very conscientious, so that tracks. And I love that you're like, that question makes so little sense to me that you must be talking about correcting other people's. Which I do too. Fantastic. Um, okay, we have one last question. And that question is what would your advice be to someone who feels off track?

Brielle 38:19

I would say it may feel that way right now, but years from now you may see, okay, this line made a lot of sense. I think about my partner who started as a New York City public school teacher who is now running an AI team at his very well-known organization in the New York area. When I hear this question, I think of his trajectory and that like some days he'll say, Oh, seven years ago I was working in a basement in Queens in a school. You know, like all that to say we can have so many lives and we have that choice. And what feels not right right now, your perspective might change, and you can write it. You can set up informational calls with people. People might say no, some might say yes. You can apply for other roles, you can talk to people, but there's an action to change.

Kristin 39:16

I love it. The words, you can have so many lives, we'll end on that. Thank you so much for doing this with me. This was really fun. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. You know, I started this episode saying the word intentionality a lot. That is a word that I associate with Brielle often, but it's just worth pulling out one more time because Brielle didn't wake up one day working in corporate social responsibility. She asked a lot of questions. She talked to the right people, she paid attention and she took baby steps. If you looked at her career from the outside, she is living the dream for a lot of people. Corporate social responsibility is a lot of people's dreams, and that's a whole different topic. But she is a reminder that careers rarely sort of just unfold randomly and perfectly. Sometimes they do take a little bit of planning and a little bit of showing up and a lot of intentionality. I also loved our conversation towards the end about meditation and how at the end of the day, sometimes a leadership skill is knowing how to slow down. How do we fight our instincts to just react and solve a problem? And what is it that makes a good leader different than an okay leader? And sometimes that's the ability to discern and slow down and think about how we become less reactive and more strategic. And finally, after we stopped recording, we had a conversation that I wanted to make sure I honored here at the end. Um, and that conversation was talking about salaries and salary transparency. And one of the reasons that I haven't really encouraged it on this podcast thus far is because I think that context matters. I think that geography matters the most. And I am honored that this podcast has a global audience. And that means that all of our contexts are so different. So if we throw around numbers about how much we make, there's just something there that doesn't feel like it's gonna fit across all of the audience or translate or make sense. So I think what I want to highlight here though is that the two of us started our careers around the same time doing similar work, working in nonprofits and feeling like we may never make money ever. And as we sort of grew and we we took different paths, and she does work in the corporate world, and I do work still in nonprofits and philanthropy. As we grew and became leaders, we make similar salaries. And so the point to me is about the fact that there are gonna be times in your career where you feel stuck or you're never gonna make money. You're never gonna just this, you are not progressing, but you are going to progress. And that isn't the ultimate goal, of course. I don't want that to be the message here. But the message is that you're never stuck. If we think about her intentionality, we think about meditation, and if we think about progressing in our careers, we're never stuck. Something is always going to change. Each moment will be different. Anyway, thank you for listening. As always, I am beyond honored. There are never enough words for me to thank you for being here. Please come find us on social media, find us on our website. Our website is everythingcountspod.com. Our social media is everything countspod. You'll find us and then leave us a review if that's something that speaks to you because it really brightens my day. And with that, thank you. Goodbye. Thanks for listening to everything counts, but nothing is real. Remember, even when nothing feels real, everything you do counts. Capitalism may be absurd, but so are we. And on that note, well, it's been real. Don't forget to subscribe. I'm Kristen. See you next time.