Liz: Lift as you climb.

In this episode, Kristin sits down with Liz (she, her), Global Co-Head of Brand Consulting at CAA, to talk about building a career that doesn’t follow a straight line and why that might be the point. From studying sociology and planning to become a social worker, to working a string of unexpected jobs, to eventually leading a global team connecting brands to culture, Liz’s path is a reminder that the most meaningful careers are shaped in ways we couldn’t have predicted.

They talk about the importance of understanding people: what they care about, what they value, and how that shapes everything from consumer behavior to leadership. Liz reflects on how growing up with four sisters shaped her perspective and her commitment to “lifting as you climb,” along with honest insights on leading large teams, making decisions about where to show up, and letting go of the idea of perfect balance.

At its core, this conversation is about adjusting your sails, trusting that things will come together over time, and remembering that not one chapter, good or bad, defines you. Because in the end, resilience matters more than any title and everything you experience along the way counts.

Transcript

Kristin 0:03

Welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real, a podcast about careers, detours, and the absurdity of work. Here we explore the twists, the pivots, and the tiny choices that shape our work lives with humor, feminism, and honesty. I'm your host, Kristen. Let's get into it. Hello, and welcome to Everything Counts But Nothing Is Real. Today's guest is someone that I admire so much that I am actually a little nervous because her life, her career, it's actually so inspiring to me. And I just want to make sure that I honor her story and honor her time. Liz, she her, is an agency board member and seasoned executive with expertise in consumer insights, cultural analysis, and strategic marketing. Based in New York, Liz brings a strong track record of generating revenue streams and working on high-profile, innovative business initiatives within sports, entertainment, and social impact. In her role as global co-head of CAA Brand Consulting, Liz oversees a team that develops and executes marketing solutions and partnerships for forward-thinking brands. Prior to CAA Brand Consulting, Liz was head of strategy at the Female Quotient, where she was responsible for working with brands on their internal and external initiatives through the lens of diversity and inclusion. She began her career at ESPN and Conde Nast. Liz is currently an advisory board member of City or New York, a nonprofit focused on supporting New York City schools and driving equity in education. Her additional impact work includes the Global Sports Mentoring Program. She has also served as a fundraising ambassador for Worldwide Orphans Foundation and previously sat on the board of the Lollipop Theater Network. Liz graduated from the University of Richmond with a bachelor's in sociology.

Liz 1:59

Liz, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for that incredibly warm welcome. That is more than I deserve, but I'm thrilled to be here.

Kristin 2:08

No way. I really, I was like just telling Lauren. She is so cool. And I just want to make sure that I use her time wisely.

Liz 2:17

I wish that was true, but I appreciate you for saying that. My kids definitely do not think I'm cool.

Kristin 2:23

Oh, that's that's at least you think it. I do. You can tell them that I do. Okay, good.

Liz 2:28

Liz, can you tell us what you do? So I am the global co-head of CAA's brand consulting group. And what that means at the end of the day is I am running about a 430-person global team whose focus is connecting brands to culture in meaningful ways. And so we partner brands with properties like the MBA or the NFL, with talent, musicians, athletes, you name it, with live events like a Coachella, partner them with content. You know, some of the most popular shows and programs and movies that you see, we find a way for brands to authentically integrate, you know, much more than just a logo slap. And then brand to brand collaborations, we do a lot in that space too. So really help brands build cultural relevance and reach consumers, you know, by attaching themselves to key communities and moments that matter in the world.

Kristin 3:29

I want to know if there's any project or two that's like really lighting you up right now. Is there anything that's just extra fun? You know what?

Liz 3:38

We have a lot of exciting ones. I will say the ones that usually excite me the most are the ones where we have an opportunity to bring a meaningful brand, a brand that has been part of culture for a long time and rethink what their identity and how they reach consumers today. So really kind of playing on heritage and reinventing who they are. And we've got a few of those. And then, you know, I get especially excited by innovation and technology, where we can play a meaningful role in anything new and first to market also excite me. So I would say it's both the old that we get to bring back and then new companies that are innovating and disrupting in interesting ways.

Kristin 4:27

I remember when we met, you were on the board of an organization that I was working at. And we talked a lot about the ways in which companies can build their brand based on their philanthropy or based on some of the causes that they attach themselves to. Is that still effective? Is that still a trend that's happening? I know that the world has changed a lot in the last couple of years. Absolutely.

Liz 4:48

But at its core, the biggest impact is when brands lead with their values. And I think you probably remember at the time I mentioned one of my co-heads, Aubrey Curtis, and now a global of special initiatives across CA Sports, Judy Ann Williams, started the practice of social impact working with brands several years ago. And that's been part of our really a core functional area of expertise that we like to look through every partnership that we're putting a brand into through the lens of what the brand stands for in the world. Because although certainly many companies have had to make decisions where maybe they don't lead with it, but it's more important than ever to stand out by leading a partnership, an engagement, how you're showing up in culture with what you value as a brand. So I don't think that will ever go away because I like to think of I started on the cultural and consumer insights side. So really understanding consumers and culture and what matters to them, because at the end of the day, brands need to reach them emotionally. And I don't think it's possible to connect emotionally with brands without a real identity. To me, brands become human. And I like to think of them and the characteristics and the value system as much as you and me. You know, what does Liz Gray represent versus what does X brand stand for in the world? And I think as consumers have attached themselves to the things, the brands, and the moments that they feel is reflective of them more and more, it's still crucial to what they're doing. So that is a very long answer to no, I do not think that's going away or ever will.

Kristin 6:31

I'm sure it's gonna shape shift a little bit, but you're right. Consumers need to understand the values of the brands. Love that.

Liz 6:39

I mean, consumers today, A, they have plenty of platforms to speak their mind. They have strong opinions, and especially these younger generations coming up, they have identified themselves and expressed themselves by the brands that they associate with, probably more so than any generation in the past.

Kristin 6:58

Absolutely. I remember when that sort of trend started. I'm a millennial, an elder millennial. And I remember like in those early 2000s, 2010s, we really started to see brands that were like giving back and they were really shaping their brand around their values, and consumers were like following along. Okay, I want to learn more about how you got here and how you landed here, but I want to actually just start from the beginning. I want to talk about your childhood, your life, your foundation. Do you have any reflections from how you grew up, your birth order, your family in terms of things that shaped you and put you on the path that you're on?

Liz 7:32

It's such a great question. I grew up in a family with four sisters. I'm number three of five girls. Grew up outside of New York City and also have a large extended family. So a lot of cousins. My dad had two sisters and a brother, and they all had big families too. So certainly a big family. And I think that has been foundational to me, especially five sisters. If you look at my career path, that connection and camaraderie with females in particular has been foundational. I don't know if this is good terminology, but being a girls' girl has always been very important to me. And my work with the female quotient was in direct relation to that. And I grew up at companies that at the time were predominantly male, certainly being within the sports industry and always had very positive experiences. Feel lucky that way. But as I reflect, it was always important to me to be lifting. I so benefited from people that were speaking in rooms I wasn't in. And I think that's important for anyone, but especially for females, where I do think the end of the day, the road in some ways has been more challenging as it relates to equity. So I think that the kind of the power of the pack, which is a phrase Shelley Zalis, who runs the female quotient and who I am a huge admirer of, for me really started in childhood because I had these four sisters, all of us close in age and you know, having one another's back throughout life, has been a theme that's important to me.

Kristin 9:08

Love that. I also grew up with sisters, and you're right, it turns you into a girls' girl. There is a difference between those of us that grew up with all girls and those of us that did not. Yes.

Liz 9:19

I have to say my daughter now has four brothers, but they are wonderful and she has her own little tack in them. But certainly raising her as a female with a strong voice and opinion has been important.

Kristin 9:31

Yeah. And I mean, I would love to hear your most casual thoughts on like the idea of raising so many boys when you're like so familiar with girl culture.

Liz 9:41

Well, let me tell you, it was an adjustment and still is. Yeah. And I have, you know, four sons and my husband. And the good thing is I feel the world is so different than the world I grew up in. And they see the world through a different lens, through a lens of equity and inclusion. Now two of them are out in the work world. And I think they approach it with that same lens and compassion and respect of all. Just really looking at the world equitably and with inclusion. And also, like I've often said to them, there was a little video that went viral many years ago about how truly, by just a chance of luck, a lot of us, and I'll include myself in that, started the race way ahead. And just by what we were given, which was just by luck and recognizing the privilege of a college education, the privilege of, you know, not having to worry about certain things is such a privilege. Kindness and and respect are are first, but then understanding that you started the race with a head start. And that head start has impact. And turning back every now and then and figuring out how you can lift as you climb is important. Absolutely. Thank you for saying that. That's so true and so real. And I'm not saying I live that every day or my kids are these angels. That's just what I've tried to instill. But we, you know, the reality isn't always perfect by any means.

Kristin 11:09

Oh, we're all just flawed humans out here trying our best. Exactly. Exactly. But I have met your children and they are lovely.

Liz 11:18

Well, I might have met them on a good day. They've got their moments.

Kristin 11:21

I would love to know what you studied in college and then what your sort of early career looked like as you were building to where you are now.

Liz 11:28

I studied sociology in college, and I actually really did love it. Most of the classes I took I found really enjoyable with the intention of going to graduate school to become a social worker. After college, I moved out west, worked in a bar, cleaned gyms, had a whole bunch of just random jobs, and that was great for a few years. And then came back to New York and took a job in finance, really just so I could pay rent and move out. Took the Series 7 and 63 and started at a small brokerage firm and then went to a little boutique firm that was eventually bought by UBS, but didn't stay long because again, I wanted to go to social work and here I am in this finance. It just was like a fish out of water situation. But I'm glad I did it and I'm glad that I was able to trade and just experience that. But I took a job at ESPN as a research analyst while I went to graduate school at night. And, you know, this is always the part of my story where I tell young people, always be ready to adjust your sales because things don't always work out the way you think they're going to, or life hits you in the face with a challenge or an upsetting set of circumstances, whatever. But for several reasons, paying for graduate school became too much and did really love the consumer insights work that I was doing. And that took me down an entirely different path. It was that job as a research analyst at ESPN that that really launched me into kind of a trend and consumer expert, working with brands to tell meaningful stories in the world.

Kristin 13:07

That's actually really cool. And I'm gonna pause and say what I often say, which is everything counts means that we I love that. We experience things. And at the in the moment, oftentimes we don't know that what we're experiencing is gonna count later and like make sense. But for you, doing consumer insights is very sociology adjacent. You really got to marry all of those experiences that you had early into this expertise that you have now.

Liz 13:33

Yeah, it took me a while to connect all the dots, but it's an exercise that, again, I often tell young people coming up like make sure you're paying attention to what's transferable. Where is the connective tissue? And for me, the connective tissue was around a real passion and curiosity for understanding culture, understanding the consumer, and then helping brands leverage it for impact. And that impact could look very, very different. And I still can't get in the weeds as much in the trends as I used to, but on those projects and things that I can, I absolutely love it. I just love to be like, where are we headed? You know, we started this conversation today around just like the state of the world and like how are people thinking and and feeling in this moment and what does that mean for how we can reach them or how we can solve for pain, solve for obstacles in consumers' paths? How can we add to something that's bringing joy because we want more of it? So anyway, it is something I still really love to focus on when I can.

Kristin 14:39

I I I'm it's so fascinating. I too would love to know in this moment what that data looks like in terms of like when our consumer dollars are down, how are we making decisions on where to spend our money? It's a really I think it's experiences.

Liz 14:55

I think it's why cultural moments, especially within in sports, music absolutely as well. But I think through COVID and all the sports has really served as a unifier in many, many ways because there are sports that hit such mass audiences where music sometimes can feel niche, but any form of entertainment really, and I'll include sports, music, film, I do think is where people will spend their money on experiences, experiences that they will create memories with people and things they care about.

Kristin 15:29

That even makes sense in my own life and experience. So yeah, okay. I that makes sense. Okay, good. It's tracking. It's tracking. I want to know about the role that you're in now and sort of how you my understanding is you helped build up this work stream at CAA. And so I just kind of want to know about that experience.

Liz 15:49

Well, certainly not by any means on my own. As I said, it's myself, Aubrey Curtis, and Jeff Eccleston, in addition to what was built before we took it over. And of course, we have incredible leaders across the business and incredible leadership in Mike Levine, Howie New Chow, and Paul Danforth. So I can't take full credit, but it has been a ride these last several years of growth. And that's been really exciting to be a part of. Where when we took it over, it was literally a week or two before we all went home for COVID. So it was a challenging time to take over a global business. And at the time, none of us were used to doing these calls or, you know, and so we had really businesses that were working as silos in London, in Munich, across the US. So there were certainly challenges that we leveraged technology to start breaking down silos, truly to create a full service marketing agency that was global. And yeah, right now, you know, I think it's about 120 people maybe initially. And now we're at almost 430, many, many, you know, I want to say close to 90 brand clients. And so it has been a journey. And yeah, we're excited. We're excited about kind of the foundation that we have, the talent that we're able to recruit in. We've just an amazing team. And so we're excited about what's ahead and where we can continue to grow.

Kristin 17:13

Do you have any reflections on leadership during this time? To essentially more than double your staff in this department, in this agency, and then to be managing globally. What are some ways that you keep teams feeling cohesive and somehow connect the dots from all the way top to bottom? How are you like getting that data that maybe the analysts are producing and it makes its way up to you? Just any leadership thoughts.

Liz 17:38

I think it's, I think it's hard. And I think that our biggest, probably the thing that keeps us up the most at night is that culture piece. How do you maintain culture and a connected culture through rapid growth? And we don't always get it right by any means, but in-person connectivity as much as possible, constant messaging and communications of certain themes about what we call circa are values of curiosity, integrity, resiliency, collaboration, and accountability and reiterating that value system and bringing it to life in action. You know, when someone does something that is reflective of the circa values, you know, we try and highlight it. We do leverage technology so that we have a lot of open dialogue and information sharing and try and not forget the fun part of what we're doing. You know, I think we often have to remind ourselves like we're just brand strategists. So if we're not having fun, something's missing. So those are the things we try, but like I said, we don't always get it right. And so I think listening is really important. And although can make you feel very vulnerable, you know, when you do surveys and all of that, we do do anonymous surveys so that listen, we want to hear the feedback. The worst thing is not to know what people are feeling or saying. So we try. Um, and then great leaders. We do have just great leaders that are managing strong teams and developing talent, you know, and reiterating the importance of the things that matter to our culture. I should say the company itself is grounded in an incredibly strong culture. Literally, the words to live by that you'll see, you know, on our walls is when we take care of each other, good things happen. It's literally as simple as that.

Kristin 19:24

I would love to also talk about, you know, it's sometimes it feels cliche, but it's real. I'd love to talk about balancing all the things in your life. I, you know, you do sit on some boards, you have a family, you have this really demanding job. Are there any like lessons inside of that that might be worthy of sharing?

Liz 19:45

You know, I often say like it actually isn't about balance because it's almost impossible. And I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I did not always do it well. I do think paying attention to your own breaking point, because I do think burnout is real. But in terms of deciding where you need to be, I do usually think that in your heart, you know when it's time to lean into family, you know when work has a priority that might need to take precedence over, you know, nothing ever is over family or things that value. But I do think in terms of where and when you show up, I think at the end of the day, that's the constant balance is making those decisions on a day-to-day basis to be present wherever is really needed you. And I do think you normally know if you have a set of criteria of, okay, these are the things that are absolutely lines in the sand. If my child needs X, Y, and Z or has X, Y, and Z, like that's a non-negotiable for me. I'm not going to miss it. And then, you know, work can be a little less predictable, but there are just moments where you know, I have to get on a plane and go see this client or be at that event for this reason. So I don't think it's about balance as much as having some idea of the criteria of how you're making the decisions of where and when to show up. And also knowing when you need some self-care and a step back. And I think that's where a lot of us fall down. So I think that's the biggest challenge we all have is knowing when you need a break and being okay with that. And I do a lot of reading of like other cultures, and it's so interesting to me that American culture, we work so much. It's just part of our culture. And I would love to be part of the solution around normalizing that working all the time is not a badge of honor. And I don't know if I'm part of the problem or the solution there.

Kristin 21:43

I wonder also for you do you feel yourself giving grace and space to people who report to you? Maybe not to yourself, but maybe you're like, oh, take the time, because you have that power to help. Yeah.

Liz 21:54

I try. I mean, I try. It's hard. Obviously, it's a demanding business that I think some. Sometimes attracts similar people. But yes, we try. Myself and Aubrey, Jeff, all of us. But again, we don't always get it right. But we try.

Kristin 22:10

That's all you can do, really. Well, I asked that question because I think it's important to talk about and important to name that like everyone has so many demands on their time. But also personally, I am in the process of getting license to foster. And we plan to foster teenagers. And I am now in this place in my life where I am going to have to figure out how to make these decisions. So I'm selfishly interested in how other people are doing it.

Liz 22:34

So thank you for that's so exciting. And I cannot think of a child that would be more lucky. That is amazing. That's amazing. Congratulations on that. And I think, yeah, I think you have to follow your heart. And at the end of the day, their health and well-being, both mentally and physically, is your number one, will always be your number one and has to be. It's all the little things that become the hard decisions.

Kristin 23:02

Yeah, that's so real. I really appreciate the advice. And maybe I'll come back to you down the road. Someone with teenagers. Please do. Please do. Thank you. We're gonna pivot to the lightning round. The lightning round is a set, I want to say there's six questions, and they're the same. I ask every guest the same six questions. Don't overthink it, but also no pressure to answer them quickly. So let's get started. What was the very first job that you ever had? And what did it teach you about work?

Liz 23:29

The first job I ever, ever had, I'm always babysitting, and I was a camp counselor in like seventh grade. But my first job out of school was when I had several different jobs out west. And it was everything from waitressing to cleaning gyms. And then even when I came back and started working on a trading desk. So I think my early career life, what stands out to me now is understanding the importance of relationships and connection to people, making connections wherever you are is what makes a job enjoyable. You know, I think we all look for such fulfillment from the work that we do. And all of them taught me that it's not always about the work being the fulfilling, but the connections that the human connections that you make and the kind of the expansion of your human network is where you can find real enjoyment and fulfillment.

Kristin 24:24

I love that answer. What is the best or worst piece of advice you've ever received?

Liz 24:30

The best piece of advice, and it was from Shelley Zalis, who I mentioned earlier, is shut that bitch up in your head. I really believe it. I believe it. I think we can be our own worst enemies. I think imposter syndrome is real. And to this day, it probably stands out as the best piece of advice. That and the one I like to say is the adjust yourselves one because there are lots of people that have this exact path in mind, and you have to adjust as life serves you different situations.

Kristin 25:00

I'm gonna take both of those to heart. Like I'm gonna go right down. Okay, good. What is your most embarrassing work story?

Liz 25:08

I can't even remember where I had just started. It might have been at CA the first time. And I go to this meeting with my new boss at the time, and we're checking in for the meeting. It was like some big company on Sixth Avenue. I can't even remember who we were meeting with, but there was a Liz Gray who had been banned from the building. I'm not kidding you. So we get there, and you know, my just like spending the day with my new boss for the first time. It was not me, obviously, but it took some ID checking and it was a little bit of a thing to prove that it was not me, but it was just a random, embarrassing moment on like the worst, most uncomfortable first day of work ever.

Kristin 25:47

I can't even imagine. You're like, I swear it's it's not. I swear to God, it's not me. But yeah, that's so stressful. What is your socially acceptable work advice? So something that brings you comfort during the day.

Liz 26:00

I mean, I don't do it often, but hey, I enjoy a good Instagram scroll or, you know, doom scrolling just as much as anybody else. And I'll do it under the guise of like, I should really be paying attention to what's going on, you know, in culture and and what's trending. But that would probably be like socially acceptable advice.

Kristin 26:18

Yeah, it's part of your work. Yeah. Everyone needs a little midday doom scroll. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's just part of the human experience. What is something about your job that sounds impressive but actually isn't that glamorous?

Liz 26:32

I feel like every job always feels like exciting, and I never want to get totally used to it. But I think travel and sound really great. And of course, again, such a privileged statement to make, but like there are lots of canceled flights or it's just some things that just aren't quite as glamorous as they might sound.

Kristin 26:53

I completely agree. I used to think that sounded glamorous until I started traveling for work and was like, never mind. That's yeah, it's like hard. It's hard. You're away from your life. Yeah.

Liz 27:03

Yeah. And I'm definitely a little bit of a homebody in a lot of ways. So any job can sound like, oh my God. And, you know, the realities of the day-to-day are not glamorous.

Kristin 27:13

Absolutely. I like talking about this topic because so many people are working towards, you know, whatever it is their goal is. They have this idea of the perfect glamorous job that they're gonna work towards. But every job that you take is still going to be a job. And you're still gonna be in like in media, you're gonna leave and maybe you'll leave rolling your eyes. Like it's always gonna be a job, even as you climb into like realistic expectations. Exactly. Do you fix typos in casual communication?

Liz 27:41

You know, I do, yes. And I make a lot of typos too. So, and I'm like that person that will follow a text with a correction if I notice that I made a mistake.

Kristin 27:52

Probably don't need to, but I do, yes. Love it, love it. Okay, the actual last question is of the whole podcast. No pressure.

Liz 28:01

I know.

Kristin 28:03

What would your advice be to someone who feels off track right now?

Liz 28:07

This is gonna sound really cliche, but I believe it. This too shall pass. If it's one thing, and I've had a lot of years, working and lifing is that things do pass and that time can heal and fix, even if we just stand still. I really think it's just about understanding that there are so many chapters and not one of them, both the highs and the lows, define you. And I don't always live this every day, but I try to just understanding that like my journey is so different than your journey or anyone's journey, and understanding that it's about the journey, not what you gather along the way. So I guess just hang in there. I've had so many times where things seemed like unbearable. And I tell my kids this too. I think the most important skill, resiliency is all I care about. How many times you get up.

Kristin 29:00

Yeah.

Liz 29:00

Because in life in general, your resiliency is what can set you apart.

Kristin 29:06

Absolutely. And to combine your best advice with the advice you just gave, the wins can change direction at any time.

Liz 29:14

I know. Exactly. So exactly. And back to everything counts, when you look back, there is usually, and I hate the silver lining phrase, but you learn the most from some of the hardest times. It's not the wins that you learn from it's often when you're at your lowest.

Kristin 29:33

I agree. I think that sometimes the wins are the moments that don't even feel real. They don't they don't always register.

Liz 29:40

Yeah, we certainly don't give them the weight and the merit of the losses.

Kristin 29:44

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I love that. This was so fun. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

Liz 29:50

Oh, of course. It's so good to see you. Thank you for inviting me to do this conversation. It's really an honor. Thank you.

Kristin 30:02

Okay, there were actually so many good moments in this interview. I wanted to pull out a couple really good nuggets. One is the power of the pack, being a girls girl. And I think for her to have grown up with four sisters and to know what it means to be part of a pack and to be a girls' girl and to lift as you climb. I don't know, it just really resonates with me and it clearly has impacted the work she gets to do. Also, super into her motto of be ready to adjust your sales because the winds do change. And, you know, we talk about that so much here. I think that a lot of her advice really captured a lot of what we talk about here, what we see with all of our interviews is that the winds change. And the people that are ready for that change and know that it might happen and know how to adjust their sales are the ones that really smoothly transition into the next thing. It doesn't have to be the thing that you expected, but it's going to be something incredible. In addition to that, I also really love her talking about how resiliency is the actual thing that differentiates us from like the good and the bad. This too shall pass. How many times do you get up? These are not new ideas. Everything counts, especially the hard parts. That's something we say all of the time here. But to really boil it down and to remember that it is about how many times we get up. There will be changes. Things are going to come our way that feel hard. And it is about how many times we get up. It's not necessarily counting every win that we should be doing that too. The story of our lives is how many times we get up and we take a turn and we keep going. So again, I will leave this part of the podcast with everything counts, especially the hard parts. Thank you as always for being here. This is our second to last episode of this season. So I don't know, buckle up, get ready. Season three is coming, and I'm never not honored for you to be here. Thank you for listening. Until next time. Capitalism may be absurd, but so are we. And on that note, well, it's been real. Don't forget to subscribe. I'm Kristen. I'll see you next time.