Here you are at the beginning. You're discouraged on day one because the three people who you thought were locked and loaded are ready to crush it for you are now not here.
SPEAKER_03They give you big goals to achieve and then they kind of just leave you alone. But when it comes to support, they kind of just disappear. You know, a few months in, I was gonna be done.
SPEAKER_01The worst spot, and I think we've all been there, is you need someone because someone's leaving and you don't have anyone.
SPEAKER_03That's a tough lesson. You take care of people, you treat them well, that they'll be there forever. You started scratch? Zero on day one. Where are you at now? We're at 12 right now, 12 million bucks size.
SPEAKER_02So from zero to twelve, what it took to get there.
SPEAKER_03I just really had to start investing. Man, I had a crazy start uh in this insurance game. Uh first day when we opened, uh, we had uh three employees lined up. One showed up and uh got kicked out the same day, couldn't pass his background check. Uh my name is uh Tom with uh uh with uh in Houston, Texas, and I'm an insurance dude.
SPEAKER_00Insurance I are interested. I am profitable, interestable, profitable interest, I am great, I am interested. We are insurance, we are insurance. Boom!
SPEAKER_01All right, why why did he pass the background?
SPEAKER_03Oh man, he didn't uh he um so what he told me was that he wrote a check.
SPEAKER_02Oh no it can never start good as well.
SPEAKER_03So he wrote a check for a family friend um that ended up being a scam, and you know, within the insurance industry, we're we're not we're not too happy with financial fraud. So uh that day uh when we opened uh the carrier called me and said, Hey, you gotta let this guy go. And I was like, I have no one else. I'm like, good luck with that. Yeah, so it was a rough start. Um, you know, been doing it for since 2020. Um been a hell of a journey so far. Um lots of up and downs, uh a lot of just learning. Um and it's been a lot of fun, actually.
SPEAKER_01It's uh what what what was your month in 2020 that you started with Mike?
SPEAKER_03Uh we started uh March 2020.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. So so prior to all the craziness. Yeah, it was literally prior to when they said, yeah, exactly. That's like oh my god.
SPEAKER_02March 1st, because that's when we started, that's when we started our the telephone program, right? It was March 1st, too. And it was like, holy crap, they just told us to close everything. What are we doing? Yeah. That is wild. But it was probably the best decision that we ever made was to go go, you know, for lack of a better word, ape shit on March 1st of 2020. Like just push, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we did. We kept pushing, trying to figure things out. It was uh it wasn't fun. It wasn't fun at all. It wasn't fun. You know, we had a lot of it was just crazy time. No, no one knew what was going on, you know. Uh literally, it was right before I guess everything just broke loose and the country as a whole, you know, got put on hold, and insurance was uh a challenging place to be. Yeah. And you're in Louisiana? Uh we're in Texas.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, Texas, so so it wasn't you didn't get you didn't have to close down, did you?
SPEAKER_03We did. Uh we closed down, it was probably three months in where it was it was um essential workers is what it came down to. We qualified as essential workers here in Texas, but you know, the team didn't feel safe, and it was just one it was doing the right thing uh at that point, and even though it even though you know we had a sacrifice on that end, but it was really doing the right thing. Make sure people were safe, make sure they were in the right place.
SPEAKER_02Um so here you are at the beginning. You're discouraged on day one because the three people who you thought were locked and loaded and ready to crush it for you are now not here. There's no you have zero, so it's tongue and a phone. How do you get through that? What what was your mental state and what did you do to get?
SPEAKER_03You're gonna pay for all these internet leads, right? So you know it was all dialed in. You had X amount of internet leads per provider, uh producer. So I just went in, I started calling them and you know, quoting them by myself, and that was we did that for probably good two, three weeks, and during that time I was interviewing people trying to get them in. Uh you know, got the people who were supposed to line up to show up that day one, got a hold of them, they had whatever excuse. It was mainly COVID, you know, so everyone had excuses at that point, right? So uh but yeah, navigated through that, got them in and you know, taught them the system, taught them you know how to quote, how to talk on the phone, and this, that, and the other, and just really started you know going. Um it was painful. It was really painful, yeah. You know, my wife, she you know, she did what she could to support me, but you know, she had no insurance background, so it was it was just you know, it was the blind leading the blind at that point, unfortunately. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We you say it was pa talk a little bit more about what was painful about it.
SPEAKER_03Uh so you know, you know, you you're carrier, they they don't do much, right? You know, they they they give you quotas, they give you metrics, they give you big goals to achieve, and then they kind of just leave you alone. Uh but you know, when when it comes to support, it's it's they kind of just disappear. All right. So that was the challenging. You you sign up for this brand, you sign up for um certain things, and you expect certain things in return, right? And it didn't really happen that way. Um and that's when you really put on, I guess, your big boy pants or your your your ownership hat and you really make it happen because uh you know you're the one paying the rent, you're the one paying the the team, the leads, you're you're the one paying all of that, right? So it's um but you you grow a lot and you learn a lot too. I didn't think I had this in me, honestly. You know, I thought, you know, a few months in I was gonna be I'm done, you know, uh when the numbers don't m match up and you know and the bills are stacking up, you know, but uh you push through and um you come out better on the other end. Yeah, because it's you know it's been a while and you know we're we're still trying to figure it out, but we're more consistent in what we do. Um you know, we've grown substantially since since day one. So um but I'm still always here, I'm still always working. I can't figure that out yet. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That comes. Well where uh where are you at now? Uh so we're four, we're five years five years later. It's not 2024 anymore. Right. How are we halfway through 2025?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's June. Yeah. Uh we're at 12 right now, 12 million book size, um, with Allstate. Yeah, so it's been uh it's a bit of journey, yeah. It's been a lot.
SPEAKER_02So from zero to twelve.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, a lot different.
SPEAKER_02Jason's curious what it took to get there.
SPEAKER_03Oh man, uh I just really had to start investing.
SPEAKER_01Starting off with no employees.
SPEAKER_03I I really had to start, you know, listening to to uh other agents around me that you know every month they send out leaderboards and you're like, oh, who's this guy? Who's what are they doing differently? And I started reaching out to them, and you know, they told me at that time, you know, spend more money. Uh there's there's mean there's plenty of fish in the pond. You're not my competition, end of the day, you know. So they were really open book about their systems and processes. I really adopted that and um you know started building teams slowly. We started, we had you know two to three employees, we're up to 12 now. Um but it really is just you know reaching out to people who are doing it at a higher level than you. And from that point, either you take what the you know, you you take their advice or you don't. And I really bought into what they were doing, you know, they shared their journeys, and you know, so it was it was really that buying into what other people are doing at a higher level.
SPEAKER_02And you didn't you started scratch?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, zero, zero.
SPEAKER_02Zero on day one. And you haven't acquired did you acquire any books?
SPEAKER_03Uh we acquired one last year, it was just a small one. Uh we acquired like a three million last year. So you've done nine plus whatever fell off, actually.
SPEAKER_02So a lot more than one. Which is amazing. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Um that is amazing. It is.
SPEAKER_01Um you did it backwards. Most people buy a book and then sell. You sold a ton and then bought a book.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's uh I bought it, lost a ton, and said, Oh crap, I need to make something happen here, you know.
SPEAKER_03No, uh we um you know, so again, it's it's it's been a great journey. Uh we get to, you know, we get to see um, you know, what the next five, ten years looks like, you know, we get to um kind of kind of I guess kind of you know play that out and see what that looks like. Uh as I talk to bigger agents, you know, they tell me they tell me it's it's a good place to be. So, you know, I'm I'm happy that I stumbled into insurance and hope to keep it going strong for for as long as I can. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01How big's the team now?
SPEAKER_03Uh we got 12 now. Yeah, we just brought yeah, we just brought on an extra service person. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01How uh how are you like like talk about a little bit about some of the processes that you guys have in your agency now?
SPEAKER_03Uh so we have uh at first everyone's hybrid, so now we have an actual service team, we have a sales team, and so it helps. It really does help with synergy, actually, because at first I was like, well, if we separate everyone, people are gonna, you know, they're gonna go their separate ways, but we found that it does help, you know, production's up, customers are happy, you know, the service team, they're happy at what they do. They don't do a lot of production, so they're happy taking care of what we bring in. Um so that's been that's been the biggest thing is you know separating the two sides of the business. Um which again I I came from a smaller agency, three or four people, so it was everyone doing everything. So it was it was different to take that approach and see it really work. And everyone's happier now too, you know. Service people don't produce, so they're not they don't feel the pressure of how I was having to produce. Salespeople don't like to mess with service, so they're just happy just producing. So um, but yeah, so that that was kind of cool to to to really execute on that because I didn't think I I didn't think I would be able to get to this point.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome, man. Super cool. So what do you look for when you're hiring? What's your hiring process like?
SPEAKER_03Uh we use uh we use uh ideal traits. So we send out those little surveys that they they have, and it kind of helps guide me in if they are a service person or a salesperson. Um, you know, we ask typical questions, uh uh, you know, what challenges you have you have at previous jobs, stuff like that. So it's just pretty typical stuff. Nothing different or special. Just uh I think it's just the consistency. I always have a pipeline of people to call uh helps too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's important. It's important to always have a pool that you can uh that you can call from. The worst spot, and I think we've all been there, is you need someone because someone's leaving and you don't have anyone.
SPEAKER_03That's a tough lesson. That is a tough lesson. If you assume, you know, you take care of people, you treat them well, that they'll be there forever. But you know, everyone has their different roads of you know success or whatever path they go on. But yeah, we learned that the hard way at the beginning too. You know, you lose a top producer, it's your month is gone. Yeah. So um, yeah, so I learned that, and we always have you know a lot of resumes to call upon now.
SPEAKER_02Are you are you interviewing even when you don't need somebody?
SPEAKER_03I try, I try to. Um I try to, but sometimes we get we you know we get busy. Uh but I do interview as much as I can. It also keeps the the team on their toes, too. So that that's one of the reasons I I learned that from one of my mentors.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, I think that the pain of that cycle that gets created from the need to hire situation, right? Now you need somebody, so you make a bad decision again, bring somebody on. That's the worst. And it just keeps happening. And then now this is the wrong person, but you don't have somebody else lined up, so you keep them. Now they're affecting culture. It just it just unravels, right? And uh the biggest solution for that has just been to constantly be interviewing. Like we interview every week, you know, because you never know. You never know when somebody's gonna go to lunch and not come back and not come back to the top.
SPEAKER_01That's the worst.
SPEAKER_03So uh that's that's funny. So we had this this happened uh happened a while ago, actually. We had we had one of our top producers leave. Uh she was going to the uh what was she doing? One of those multi-level marketing life insurance companies.
SPEAKER_04Oh, great.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. So you know, she she thought she could do it there, and uh and you know, so again, just let her go. But she uh was recruiting people within the office to go with her during lunch. Yeah. Um that was painful. That was really painful. I was like, hey, how was you know I thought she was just gonna lunch and say goodbyes and you know whatnot. Uh but that's what it was. It came down to trying to trying to recruit the next person in the pipeline for her. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Have you talked to her since?
SPEAKER_03Uh no, we kind of just part ways, you know. Um but I guess I could have led with that story. That was that was yeah, that was pretty recent. Yeah. But um That's uh it's wild, right? Yeah, and um so uh you just never know. Yeah, you you never and good people are so hard to find.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's true. Well, Craig had an uh instance where he let someone go. They tried it at the new agency because they always think it's gonna be like ten times better.
SPEAKER_02Well, she she wouldn't she couldn't show up on time, and she was given an ultimatum. You either show up on time or you're gone. And she chose I'll be gone. Okay. And and she was like she's back. Last month she wrote 60k. So she's an important piece, right? But uh I knew she'd come back because I know that in my market there would there isn't anybody who provides you know enough leads per day, 30 35 leads per day for each agent, and you know, it has two two they get two telemarketers, like it, you know, they're they're getting fed. It couldn't be any easier for a very difficult position, right? And um, yeah, she came back. And it was really good because I told my ops manager, I said, Hey, um she's gonna come back. I I think that she'll likely come back. She'll but but give her you know a little bit of a cold shoulder just to you know make her really want to come back. And and it worked, you know, and she came back and she told everybody, like which was fantastic, right? Like she told everybody in the office, you do not want to go anywhere else. I've been out there. And it's horrible. Like it was, you know, it was make the dials, you gotta make the dials, you gotta make the dials, and you know, there you go.
SPEAKER_01I think that's a that I like that story because it's a good lesson in like you know, some people have the ego problem of like, oh, I never hired them back after they left. But then again, it's like yeah, like I love the fact that like she's telling everyone how much better it is. She's not leaving. Like now she's solidified all those questions of like, should I because every employee asked that, right? They're thinking in their head, should I leave? Is there a better opportunity out there? Like, they're all thinking this, but like actually hiring them back is not that bad of a surprise thing, right?
SPEAKER_02I mean, if you Yeah, I mean, is it ego or results? Which one do you want, right? Like, I don't care about the ego. You know, I'm over 50 now, it doesn't matter. I realize I don't know. I don't even work in the agency. Yeah. I mean, it's like that my see, my why is or my what, you know, what I want, I don't want to work in the agency. Like that, that is my I've done it. I've been in the trenches, I've done the whole thing. I'm 20 years in. I don't need to do that crap anymore. I don't want to. So it was create the system and process that I don't have to, right? And and that's that is the case, right? Now, if I were to lose my ops guy, I'd have a little bit of an issue, right? You'd be back in there. I'd be in trouble. Um, so so that that's an important thing, but he's taken care of very well and he and he's steady, right? He's not he's not like if you looked at his uh disc profile, it's much different than mine, right? I have a real high I, real high D. I I don't I don't do well sitting in the same thing, doing the same things over and over again. I get bored really fast. So but he's he's the opposite, you know, and he's English. You know, they just plug along.
SPEAKER_01And they sound they sound lovely.
SPEAKER_02And he sounds so sophisticated. If you're listening, you sound very uh sophisticated.
SPEAKER_01That's a great accent. So uh, you know, a lot of changes have been happening over the last few years and stuff. Like what what are you um like what are you what are some strategies you got going for the upcoming next few years?
SPEAKER_03So one of the things that we we do pretty often is, you know, we again every everyone wins by zip codes, right? Zip codes are the name of the game and and data. So I've been diving into data a lot more. Um you know, there's a lot of vendors out there that we use. Uh, but just overall, just understanding, you know, we do mailers, we do internet leads, so just understanding the zip codes and and where we're we win as as a carrier, um, and just really just just double down and just getting nerdy with it, right? Um so that's what we've been doing differently. I I shop around vendors every three to six months. So every three to six months I really get on the phone with my account rep, we have a conversation on what's working, what's not, and if it's not, then you know we gotta let them go. But then I also reuse them six months down the road because for whatever reason leads got better six months down the road. Uh yeah, so it's it's just a it's just a you know, just a cycle of of rinse repeat. And again, we we only use what five or seven actual vendors out there. There's a lot of small guys that we're not allowed to use, but you know, as far as the ones we're allowed to use, there's only there's only a handful. So um and then yeah, just pretty much out rinse, you know, just reusing them over and over and getting better with the data on the zip codes um that we're allowed to do business in.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Are there any processes like within that that you can check?
SPEAKER_03Um on the zip codes?
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, we have like like what are you what are you looking at? What what are you um what are you doing with that exactly?
SPEAKER_03Uh on the zip codes, we we look at uh you know how much we write, uh the average um the average, you know, how how much per household that we're getting out of it. Uh on the mailers we look at response rates, we look at uh how many pieces we mail, how many people responding, close ratios, all of those things, all of those metrics that that uh I'd never looked at in the beginning, because in the beginning I was just writing business, just to write business. Uh but now we're looking for more quality business uh in certain zip codes. Yeah, when I started right now, you know, we we we're bringing in I guess better quality clients, you know, that don't file claim every time the wind blows. So it's uh it helps a lot uh on that end. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01How are how are you holding your team accountable?
SPEAKER_03Uh same metrics, you know. We have uh just Jason's point, we we have, you know, people have to make phone calls, people have to text message, they have to email. Um and a lot of the tools that we have with Allstate now, it does track all of that. So I can just log in and look at their numbers and we can have that conversation on why they're having a bad day or a bad month. Uh and it's all pretty much right there. Uh you're not making enough calls, you're not, you know, you're not texting enough, whatever the case. And it allows me to make those adjustments live uh as I see them.
SPEAKER_01Wha what are some ways that you're like what what's happening when they are having those low numbers? Like how are you getting them back on track?
SPEAKER_03Uh it's um we do a lot of one on ones, a lot of just sitting down and just having a conversation realistically. It could be most of the time it's not work-related. It's something outside of work. You know, most of the time it's something personal that is just holding them back for whatever reason. You know, it could be it could be something as simple as, you know, uh relationship issues. So yeah, a lot of times just really having that conversation, uh, just that human contact uh and and seeing what's going on with them outside of work. And a lot of times that does solve it. It's again, it's usually something simple. They come back the next day motivated, knowing that, you know, I I actually do care. It's you're not just a number in the office. Um so that a lot of times it really is something as simple as that. Um that's what I learned a lot during this journey, is that my team is that's it. I I need them much more than they need me uh to keep this thing going.
SPEAKER_02But they also create the opportunity to scale, right? Like without it's like you need them or that they need you. However, when when we give them huge opportunity, they need you more and more, right? Like in my story. And I think if they're if they're aware of of uh the position that you put them in by providing you know all these leads, by providing the callers, by providing the uh the you said mailers, you know, uh it it really uh makes them understand that if they want to do this, like this job, then they do need you, right? They are gonna they they they need you because they can't find it elsewhere, right? There aren't a lot of agents that do provide what you provide.
SPEAKER_03That's true.
SPEAKER_02And that's the same reason why there's a lot of agents that have not grown or written nine million over the last five years or four years, right? Like you mean to put and it's more than that, whatever your retention, you can back it out. Let's say you wrote 12 million over the last over the last five years. I mean, how many ages of the market that you're in did that? Probably none, right? And so to be part of that is an exclusive group. And I think it's important that that they know that, right? Like the showing them, showing my team that that's the situation by having that one lady leave and then end up coming back. Like it's like, oh crap, like this is different if I want to do this, right? And so that's that's uh my two cents wasn't really a question. No, but I do have a question. Um, you so you mentioned uh that you you buy the leads, you do the leads thing, which is how we we run everything, but also that you do some mailers. I used to, and I got away from that because I found that uh if I have if I have mailers and I have leads, uh, they're always gonna take the mailer call over the leads. And and it became this like tug-a-war between the two sources. So I'm curious how you've created an environment where both are possible.
SPEAKER_03So um mailers go to only certain people. Uh they go to closers, unfortunately. Which is, you know, and I do make that pretty clear. I make it clear, you know, the you know, if you're not a closer, you're not you know, you don't get these calls. That's kind of that simple. Um but you are right, yeah. People love mailers, right? You know, the close rate's high. You're talking to somebody live, they they're not angry, they want a quote. Uh they may be angry at the end when you give them the price, but you know, overall, yeah, they're wanting a quote. So what we did is um we don't get a lot of response on mailers. You know, we get maybe 10, maybe 20 for the month, but again, they they're high close rate, so they only go to two or three of my producers. Um, and everyone else, you know, until they prove themselves, they don't get them.
SPEAKER_01What's your cost per sale on mailers?
SPEAKER_03Oh, they're really high. They're really high. Uh I think it's right around 550. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, that's the other thing I ran into. So I'm curious, why sped why buy business for $550 if you know over on the leads, you could you get it for $200, right? Your acquisitions cost is closer to $200 or less, right? Sometimes I mean we've been as low as $100 on some lead sources. So what's the incentive to do that?
SPEAKER_03There really isn't any, is there? There's I mean, well, for us, it's it's metrics, you know. Um All State wanted more homes, and that's how I can get at least more home opportunities. Yeah, so it was it was it was uh it was just I guess chasing the carrot. Always. Yeah. So you know, uh, we have to make adjustments to whatever, you know, whatever a carrier wants. And uh so that's what that was. That's what the mailers again. We don't spend a huge amount on mailers, but you know, we we we spend uh you know it's substantial. It's enough to, you know, I feel it in in my um on my credit card, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_02I bet you spent five grand. So you spent five grand on mailers and you get and you get ten deals out of that, right? So and then if you took that same five grand and you spent it on leads, you'd get I don't know, however many more, right? But but then it's just a function of moving.
SPEAKER_03It's just yeah, we're just really moving funds around, essentially. Um so that that's why the Mellers, we um Yeah, they they're they're good leads. Uh they're good leads. It's they're just really expensive.
SPEAKER_01Um so but but you guys have awesome premium out there.
SPEAKER_03We do. We do, we got crazy premium.
SPEAKER_02Uh that's why he could do it. Yeah, because he could afford the $500 acquisition costs because of the premium.
SPEAKER_03Uh average host household here is easily 29. Yeah. Yeah. Easy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. Well, they're bigger. Everything's bigger in Texas.
SPEAKER_03Well, we also have really bad weather. Yeah, that that yeah, it's it's one of those, you know, every, I mean, almost every month, consumer calls complaining about this, that, and the other. And and you know, you have to remember them that, you know, you have to remind them that, hey, you live in Texas, so so do I. Yeah, my rates aren't that much cheaper than yours. So uh but yeah, it's it's it's a good place to be. It's a good place to be. It's growing. Um yeah, there's uh there's literally you know brand new neighborhoods popping up all over the place and people moving in.
SPEAKER_02Thanks to California.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's so funny. Well, what what's on the uh what what are you looking forward to? Um you you've come so far in such a short period of time. What's your like what's your vision for your agency?
SPEAKER_03Oh man, the vision is uh, you know, we got here, we're gonna, you know, stay steady, you know, continue growing, but uh stay steady, you know, hopefully get an operations person in here and I can I can rest a little bit, right? I'm here all the time. And I think again to to Jason's point, that's that's the goal, right? We build this thing up and we wanna we want to enjoy it, right? Uh right now it's just I'm here every day grinding. So it's really continue to grow, um you know, and and spend more time with the family. I've been doing this non-stop since 20, yeah, since 2020. Um so that's kind of the vision, just uh get the right people in place, you know, build that vision for the team that hey it's it really isn't greener on the other side, you know, and and you know, just grow from there. Um yeah, that's the thing. My my biggest vision, you know, is really having a place where people can make a good living. You know, it's not uh you know to your point, it's uh it's it's you can make a lot of money selling insurance, you know. And um that's kind of the the biggest thing I I want from my team is is that buy-in of I can make a good living here, I don't have to continue shopping, you know. This is a career versus just hop around from job to job all the time.
SPEAKER_01Awesome, man.
SPEAKER_02Well, I just thought of something this this may be helpful, and and every now and then I come up with a good idea, but you said I know there's there's smoke coming out of my ears. So so you're a data nerd, you have the you have the data that you go through and you and this information. I'm just curious if if if it or I you know I I wonder if it would be beneficial to use that data to identify the neighborhoods or zip codes where you have a higher bundling of home and auto, right? Then you could then you could where you said you use the the mail. I I just like when somebody says mailers, I get like, ah, it's such a waste of money. So if if if you were to take that money used on the mailers and invest it in neighborhoods that you know are gonna have a higher likelihood of bundling into a home, not renters, right? Like so these are neighbor, these are zip codes where you have that high home auto, then you could, you know, and for all intents and purposes, like really dramatically increase, like maybe it's a different back door into that home part. That's what we found has worked.
SPEAKER_03So we um it won't work in Arizona.
SPEAKER_02If you're in Arizona, that does not work, absolutely does not work. Don't do that.
SPEAKER_03No, we uh we uh we're still learning the data, we're still learning it. That's the thing. And and then you know, when you do mailers, you're just so limited to zip codes unless you do it yourself, which is not something I want to ever try doing. Yeah. Yeah, but there's some agents out there that do it themselves, and I'm in awe of what they're able to do. They collect uh they mine all the data, they print out all the mailers, and they ship them all out themselves, and uh it's uh that's a lot of work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, if I think if you if that's where you put all of your focus, great, you know, that'll work. But it's it's kind of like are you a passing team or are you a running team, right? Like if you're a passing team, then you gotta stick with throwing the ball and not try to run it up the middle every time, right? Like it's you're a passing team. So it's just interesting. Like, like for me, and I don't know if it's the same for everybody, but like having multiple strategies was was challenging. And I kept looking at, well, my cost per sale is close to 500 with with my mailers. So if I if I flip it and my cost per sale over here is 150, 200, man, I'm getting three times the result for the same thing. And and the people are more focused, right? So just just an idea.
SPEAKER_03No, absolutely. No, absolutely. Yeah, we're we're um oh we've been it's been an on and off relationship with mailers. It's just uh metrics change, so we just added them back on recently. Uh yeah, but that's definitely good insight.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, tongue, awesome work on your agency. And uh the growth that you've had is awesome, man. Like, congrats, especially the fact that you start from scratch and then you were able to build that much before even buying a book. I I know it's like that's the hard way to go, but like how much you learn is incredible. So uh it's a testament to like everything you've learned to be able to do that. Um so that's incredible, dude. But uh we'll definitely have to check in with you in the future, see how everything's going. And uh, yeah, man.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Appreciate your time. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_03All right, good to have you.