Hey Craig. Let's get into some coffee talk. Hey, I love it. I love doing some coffee twalk. Well, you know, talk about what? Dogs, twatters, whatever. It's coffee tuck. Coffee twack.
SPEAKER_03Hey! Coffee! Okay. It sounds like we're gonna be leading with leads. Oh man. The bane of our existence. The bane. So I know we've kind of beat it with a dead horse and beat it with a dead horse? I don't know. I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. What kind of world do you live in, Mr. Jason? A weird one. Yeah. But let's talk about leads. These things suck.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're frustrating.
SPEAKER_03They can be. Let's talk about the four major different types of leads. Gosh, I'm off my game. Four major types of leads. You need a monster. And how to handle them. Okay. Everybody says what kind of leads are good, right? Mm-hmm. Leads just pretty much fall in four categories. One, public data leads. Yeah. So you're talking about like, I don't even want to bring up companies, but those companies that you sign up for. It rhymes with small smex baits.
SPEAKER_00Yes, something like that. And Bales Peony. Does it rhyme with those?
SPEAKER_03I would think, yeah. Okay. Yeah, those public data companies, and here's the problem with them. Let's just be honest, is that you're getting quantity, not quality. Yeah, and you're basically what we're really looking for here is contact rate. Yeah. And some sort of direction on how to handle the conversation. So with those, you don't know where they got the information from. They definitely didn't fill out anything recently. And the contact rate is generally absolutely horrible. Under 1%. So basically. So then you end up spinning your wheels. I don't care how cheap of labor you have on the front end trying to find those that pick up the phone, they almost never pan out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's the cheaper it is, the lower that contact rate is going to be. And at a certain point, you have too many numbers that aren't performing, and you aren't ever going to have enough time to make the dials that you need to get performance out of that data. Right.
SPEAKER_03And so what we're looking at here is we're looking at cost per sale. And everybody's worried about how much does a lead cost. It only matters what it costs after you know how it will perform. Right. Because I will buy a $30, $40, $50 lead all day if they're closing all of them. Yeah. Or if they're closing one out of two and I got $30 leads, I will buy those until the cows come home, Mr.
SPEAKER_00Craig. Right. And the better quality is actually higher contact, higher ability to quote, which is that intent. And then you could also say, okay, it's better if it has two cars and a house or whatever. Right.
SPEAKER_03How warm it is, how receptive they are, whatever way they started in the funnel. Are they colder? Are they warmer? We talked about a while ago. And then yeah, also, what kind of premium are they bringing in?
SPEAKER_00Right. But you could search those garbage raw data places and actually extract homeowners with two cars, but all the information is terrible, so they're no good. Like it has a tricky appearance. You're not getting past the first stage of the funnel. Right. If you can't make contact, who cares if they have 16 houses and 50 cars?
SPEAKER_03So I would say, unless you're in some sort of market that it works, which we have not found. Right. Yeah. So we're not into public data at all. And then the next one would be age leads. Now, some people have success with those, but are they usually expired? Are they past the TCPA limit? Yes. Yeah. So But I can scrub it, Mr. Jason. Yeah. So here's the deal. Like this lead filled out a form online. They had everybody from Mr. Craig to Mr. Jason to Mr. Brandon to everybody. Mr. George. Mr. George calling them. So they've been through multiple sales. The ringer. Yeah. Then after a certain point of time, they sell them as aged leads. Now, when they are aged leads, they're not capping usually. They usually cap on the front end maybe six agencies when it's a new lead. But then as it's an aged lead, it goes into this bucket where they're just going to resell it to death. To death. So then let's say a hundred agencies buy that lead. Well, that person's probably going to be pretty pissed off. And they might be ready to file some sort of lawsuit or something. So again, age leads better than public data. I don't recommend them.
SPEAKER_00Then you get into Well, over the years, all of the ones that have had any kind of complaints that I've heard from from different agents have resulted from age data.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Ross Powell Right. Yeah, because at some point, I mean they're going to get pissed, right? Especially when they're being sold as age data. Right. And then past that is some sort of newly opted-in lead. There's everything from a lead that opted in for a gift card, and it's called co-op where it's they've opted in for maybe a gift card, but like they're going to get people calling them to fix their house and credit repair. Yeah. So they'll kind of share that data with a few different people. It's better. I mean, they're opted in. They agreed to having somebody call them. They're less expensive. They're less expensive. But is the cost per sale better? That's what you got to figure out. That's why you have to put it through your telephone, be consistent, like we talked about before. Be real consistent so that you can see the variables, you can compare the contact rates, you can compare the sales cycle. Does it take two weeks to close these? Or longer, huh?
SPEAKER_00Longer. That's the problem. So like if I look at my six-month data, right? My those type of leads actually have a lower cost per sale, right? They're like 50 to 70 bucks for a cost per sale. The problem is that meant if it's 70 bucks and they're a dollar, that means it was 70 leads quoted to result in a sale, right? Right. And how many dialed? Right.
SPEAKER_03So it's good to have them in the I think it's good to have them in the mix. It's hard to lead with those. Some people can. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think it's tough because, especially if you're starting with them, because if it's a six-month sales cycle or four-month sales cycle or whatever it is, you're filling that pipeline up with having to make too many dials on it, right? So many dials on these leads that it's going to take a while. And most people then eject from doing something like this because they're not seeing immediate results.
SPEAKER_03Which takes us into long form data leads. Now, these long form data leads are what you typically buy from the lead companies. They can be five to companies like Beverboat or Moat Pizard.
SPEAKER_00Um, who else? I don't know. Ball tab beads. Oh, you are in riddles, Mr.
SPEAKER_03Craig. That's right. They call me the riddler. In riddles. But yes, they're long form. They generally have a bunch of data on the autos, on the dates of birth, and all that stuff. They generally have a shorter sales cycle, and they could be really expensive.
SPEAKER_00Want me to give them a tip? I would love it. So this is what they'll do. You're talking to these folks over there, and they're gonna say, well, we can give you the ones with not so many filters on them for five bucks, six bucks, seven bucks, whatever, something like that. Or we could give you the really good ones for $15 or $18. Now, let me ask you a question, Mr. Jason. Yes. Is that contact rate gonna be much different between the five dollar one and the $17, $18 one? Probably not much different. Right.
SPEAKER_03It just, dude, it's like used cars. You just gotta run it at that point and see if it works. But yeah, filters are It is just like used cars in that way. But you're right. There's no way that an $18 lead with all those filters is even gonna come close to a cost per sale of a six or seven dollar lead without the filters. Those filters aren't gonna net you two times the results. Right. Or three times the results.
SPEAKER_00You may close more of them when you quote them and get a hold of them, but you still have the problem of contact. Right. So, yes, in the front end, if it's a 15% contact rate the first day, that means if you bought 150 of them, then you got 10 of them answered the phone. Right. You got to quote one of those. Yep. Maybe two or three, right? Let's just be generous. Yeah. But if they cost 20 bucks or 18 bucks, we'll do 20, then it cost you for 150 3,000 bucks for those leads. Now, if you bought 150 of the $5 ones, you're gonna have the same contact. Right. So you're gonna have more swings at the bat. Maybe that not all of them are awesome. Maybe they don't meet your carrier's qualifications, but you still had more chances, which means there's a greater likelihood of getting a result, which is that sale. Yep. Which is gonna drive down your cost per sale. And that's it. That is internet leads debunked. And then we could throw the fifth in there just for fun, okay. The live transfer. A lot of people like the live transfer because they're bypassing the contact, the dial and contact stage. But at what cost, right? And incredible cost.
SPEAKER_03And the problem that I had with because I loved those back in the day. Sure, it's easy. You get you eliminate half the funnel. Right. And then when you need them, when you need them, the cost of them just skyrockets. They're in short supply, they're unscalable. Yeah. And when they really have you by the cojones, those lead companies, at those times that you need them. So to me, back in the day, we found out that basically the lead companies they sell the agencies these leads, and then they also call on them. And if they get them, they're gonna transfer that lead to another agency. And that is what they call a live transfer. And that is why we decided to do it within our agency. And since then, we've had much more success doing that rather than the transfer.
SPEAKER_00So I was talking to an agent who actually ended up signing up over with all dudes. Okay. And he was doing exclusively live transfers. I said, What is your cost per sale? Right. He did not know. Okay. And I said, So take your total live transfer spend and divide it by the number of households you sold from those. Right? Right. And it was astronomical. So he was close to 800 to 1,000 bucks. So he was somewhere in that range, and I don't remember the exact number. Right. And you don't actually have the data. The data doesn't shoot into your system. You don't have unless you wrote it down, and then that's not scalable either. Then somebody calls, you miss it, it's gone, and you're paid 100 bucks. Right. So you drive up your cost per sale, but I mean, when you're paying 800 to 1,000 for your new business acquisition, that doesn't pencil. Right. You're losing money. 100%. You're seeing a result because you think, oh, well, but we close a lot of these. Well, great. It's too expensive. Too expensive.
SPEAKER_03Yep. Yeah. So those are the different types of leads, and those are the things that matter more than what company is better, right?
SPEAKER_00We see it all the time on the Book of the Faces. Yeah. It's like, what oh, does anybody have Beverboat? And then everybody will say, run the other direction. No, they're terrible. This, that, all these issues, right? And it's like, well, what are you actually using as your analytics or metrics to determine whether or not this is a good company? We couldn't get a hold of anybody. Well, okay, how many were you buying? Five a day. Right. Well, you're not going to get a hold of anybody if you're buying five leads a day. You got to buy a hundred leads a day and you're going to get 15. Right. Right? Right.
SPEAKER_03Right. So that is how we kind of approach leads. Yeah. And I hope that brought some clarity to insurance internet leads for you. I hope so too. And I'm going to say this is how we do it.
SPEAKER_00Coffee talk.
SPEAKER_02Hey, Jason. Yes, Mr. Craig. That was another awesome episode, wasn't it? Mm-hmm. Well, if people want to get a little bit more action and learn how to do 100,000 premium of even the worst internet leads, where can they go? They can go to live.inteled.com. That sounds exciting. Are we going to be there?
SPEAKER_01Yes. It's a weekly call that we're doing right now. That will, it's live and it will show you the process. The entire process.
SPEAKER_02I love it. Let's do it.
SPEAKER_01Let's do it. Sign up right now. Live.teledude.com.
SPEAKER_02Live.teledude.com. That's live.teledude.com.
SPEAKER_01Hey Craig, there's a new community that we are starting that I cannot wait to tell everybody about. It is our live texting community where you and I are going to answer people's questions and give them free content.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_01Are you kidding me? We can talk to them. Yeah. Which is awesome. But they have to often text us at 520-214-2219. That's 520-214-2219. Nice. I'm going to respond to them for sure. I'm into it too. It's going to be awesome. And it's a it's going to be our new texting community where we're going to get back to everybody that we can and drop some crazy content. Free content and free calculator that you just came up with. Right. The calling calculator. I mean everything for insurance agents. This is it. It's the best technical community out there for insurance agents. Well, what the heck is that number again? I can't remember it. 520-214-2219. 520-214-2219.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna check it right now.
SPEAKER_01Five two zero two one four two two one nine.