Welcome to the Insurance Dudes Podcast. In this week's episode, co-host and dude Jason Feltman talked me into the hot seat and grilled me on the ups and downs of agency ownership, hiring woes, and how we work to sell our perceived commodity differently and better. This is Insurance Dudes, and we're pumped you're here.
SPEAKER_00Craig, how are you doing, man?
SPEAKER_02Great. Always good.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Hey, um, I've got to know you a little bit over the last year. Uh who's Craig? Who is Craig Pressinger?
SPEAKER_02Oh no. Such a such a complex. Where did you go back?
SPEAKER_00Huh? Um, what brought you into let's start with uh what what brought you into uh insurance?
SPEAKER_02Um well before the before insurance, I was uh financial advisor Merrill Lynch. Okay. I I wore a suit. The beginning of my career was in Tucson, no air conditioning in an old prelude, wearing the same suit every day and convincing people to move a quarter million dollars over. So what was really interesting and a great learning experience from making 500 to a thousand cold calls a day for um a wirehouse was having to learn really, really intense and specific products, but then how to market to a very, very, very limited audience, right? Yeah, I mean, you're cold calling 900 people. Out of the 900 people in a day, I mean, maybe one of them even qualifies, right? Because it's not like what we're doing, where our you know, us or LSPs are calling, and everybody for the most part can buy our product. Right. And if not, then you know there's other things or you know, places to send them or whatever. But but for the most part, everybody has to have our product, right? There, almost nobody qualified for the product, and the the production requirements were tremendous. Like we had to do, I think it was I can't remember the exact numbers, but like in two years we had to bring in 15 million in assets, or you're fired. How you into that? That's a really that's a funny question because before, like my dad was in that business for a very long time, not here in Tucson and not with Merrill Lynch, so no relation. And I always told him, and I was around it there's no way I'm doing that. I don't want to wear a suit, I don't want to I I can't imagine from five in the morning until nine at night. Like all of these, all of the things that I said I will never do, I ended up doing. And it was actually pretty cool because then you know, my dad and I have always had a great relationship, same with my mom, but um it it was another thing to you know connect on. So how old were you? That was 2003. So 2003. Now a year. Now a year, how old were you? Late 20s. Nice, late 20s, late 20s, maybe early 30s. Gotcha, gotcha. Well okay, so it was kind of a family. I'm 46. I mean, I'm not gonna hide my age. I know I look 80, but I'm only 46. But this is what happens when you do insurance. When you when you've had as many as 12 LSPs or as few as one, um you age.
SPEAKER_00The ups and downs, right? It happens, it does happen.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes you have to reboot. I think we were talking about that earlier.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay, so so you're at Merrill Lynch, killing it, making a billion phone calls on a rotary dial phone. Killing the activity, for sure.
SPEAKER_02So, how did you get an intern? Oh no, no, it was it was operator, give me 613.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so so so you're crushing at Merrill Lynch. Um, what got you into Allstate?
SPEAKER_02This person who who uh left Merrill Lynch purchased an Allstate and he started doing really well. And I was still at Merrill uh and just got the introduction to somebody who was selling their agency. Um first in not to go too far down in the weeds, but I first looked at one in Texas, and we got pretty far along. Like we'd we'd actually put a down payment on a house.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna move to Texas, but um, you know, just well, whatever. It's a great place, but um, it it it the deal fell apart at the last minute, and and you know, I was younger and a lot more volatile, so it it hit me pretty hard, but but we you know obviously survived, learned from it, and uh have gone on to and then we found the one here in town, which which actually worked out better because we didn't have to move, we didn't have to uproot the family, and we we know and love Tucson, so it worked out great.
SPEAKER_00So then um so how many years?
SPEAKER_02How many years is well 2007 and in between Merrill and and the Allstate, because this thing got kind of drawn out, I was looking at looking at this thing, and I actually left Merrill with the intent to move to Texas, and and then it unwound, and then no job, then holy shit, what am I gonna do? And um, I got a call, I mean, you know, just kind of happened. I got a call out of the blue from somebody, you know, that found my resume on Monster and said, Oh, I see you've been at Merrill, you want to come and run this bank program for as a financial advisor. And I thought, well, okay, sure. You know, so we went and talked about it, the numbers worked out, and so I did that for until 2008 when I bought the agency. But I mean, that was sort of the placeholder, and and I'll tell you like you have the wirehouses, and then you have us, the the insurance guys that are doing um securities, but at a pretty limited way versus what we were doing at Merrill. Like, we were doing some really crazy stuff. I mean, there were people doing CMOs, everybody remembers that's what wrecked the economy, right? Yeah, so there were people selling, like the guy in the cube next to me was he was a believer in those CMO. He's like, Oh, these are the best. And I'm like, I don't know, I don't understand, I don't want to mess with that. Right stick into the program. Um, but at this, at the bank, it it's like this weird middle niche because banks have to keep like they what do banks do? They borrow money from consumers so they can loan it out, right? In the form of deposits. So what was interesting at this situation, they were just trying to figure this all out, and it ended up not working out for them. But they wanted to have the money that you get from having a broker dealer, but at the same time, they're competing with the bank that you're sitting in because every deposit, like let's say there's a hundred thousand dollar deposit account at the bank, you're gonna, and and I'm talking to them to put them in a variable annuity or whatever, right? Right. If we move that off the bank's balance sheet, it affects their deposit base.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02And so this was this giant, it was this giant adversarial relationship. I mean, it was a great place and and really cool people, but yeah, the bank model is I can see why agents or advisors struggle in the bank business. I don't know if it's the same now, it could be different. They may have figured all that out, but um, that was unique. But at the same time when it was sort of going nuts and then the the crash happened. I remember late 2008 is when the market went down. I don't know, what was it 800 in a day or 1500? It was a it was a ton. The Dow went way down, right? Or 5,000? I I don't even remember.
SPEAKER_00I don't remember.
SPEAKER_02The market was it was I think it was at 13 or 10, I I can't remember, but um, but that like shortly after that day, this the agency that I now own, the guy said, Hey, I I'm selling. We need to move quick. And I'm like, I'm ready to move quick, let's do it. And so, because I'd been looking at the numbers, and I knew that I was familiar with the at that at that point in time it was called the CSRPs. So the CSRP, there were um a few different reports, list 60s, and and all those, all those reports that now they've changed names. We're gonna take a quick break here. Uh a word from our sponsor, Agency Vault, and then we will dive back into the first year. Insurance Dudes podcast is sponsored by Agency Vault, an industry leader in agency coaching, hiring, and sales training. Agency Vault's unique connection between the hiring process and the sales training process has helped thousands of insurance sales producers and agents gain confidence and strengthen their abilities to sell more policies. Let's jump back in to year one. What was your first year like? Terrible. Terrible. How so? So uh let me tell you, so so I bought it um without getting too far into the weeds on numbers, the the the agency was losing 90,000 in premium a month. Wow. Wow. So I inherited a staff that uh a staff that didn't respect or really care. Um how many people? Uh there were four four in one office, and it was four and four, and and it didn't last. Like I had to almost flip the whole thing over. A couple of the really long-term ones stayed, and now none of them are here, but um, you know, that that was there was that whole ramp up because what I learned was man, it doesn't matter how good of a sales guy you are over here, if you don't know how to manage the people, you are done. You're in deep doo-doo, right? Yeah, if you don't create buy-in, um, like we we do this thing over with um with some workshops we do with some of our coaching, and and we always ask, it's kind of a trick question, who's your number one and who's your number two client? And everybody's like, Well, it's the highest household, or you know, all these different things. And it's like, no, it's it's these guys. Yeah, they're your number one and your number two client. Because if you can't, if you can't get your staff to buy in, then you're not getting any prospects to buy in, you're not getting anybody to buy in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it took me a long time of banging my head against the wall to figure that out. Um, and that I know we've uh that led to probably, you know, there were some successes along the way, some inner circles and and uh and and honor ring and all that, but you know, that led to I don't know, the ups and downs at that point um led to a lot of drinking, and the drinking can you know become a slippery slope. So did you no longer drink? Huh? Did you was uh you know or or or during the whole time? There was a lot of drinking. Yeah. There was a lot of drinking. Too much. I mean, I see it all the time. I mean that that's sales. You know, a lot of the people who can be most successful in this in a sales environment where you have to where you you have to be able to go go go and be able to handle the ups and downs. That's what happens, you know.
SPEAKER_00At least happened with me, and I see it a lot. And were you selling at that time? Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Are you now?
SPEAKER_02No. No. I haven't this this year. I know we're only two months in. I did one home quote and and sold it. It just everybody was busy, and I thought, this will be great, I'll just do it. And no, no, I should not be doing that. Because now they now this person they only want to talk to me, and it's hard to it's hard to create um that manage that expectation with somebody. If they come in and they talk to you, they want to talk to you, right? Yeah, and I and I did I laid down a lot of those expectations and set the boundaries, and they're still calling, and they have to talk to me. And this is yeah, so it's just ah that's but I love selling. That's the thing. I I I love selling, and and that that's why the other businesses, because then I'm I'm able to sell, but but not have to get down into the into the weeds with a lot of the details and keep it more high level.
SPEAKER_00You love training your staff, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, so you're selling them.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And that's why for for me and for I think um agency owners that are, you know, above that, uh it really depends on debt, but but once you have some cash flow and you can step back and you don't have to be part of the growth, then that's how you leverage your time, right? You leverage your love of sales by by coaching your team and making them more successful. Because if if we're like I can sell a renter's policy, I mean I can sell that home. I sold that home, but I probably spent three hours on it. And what did we make? You know, we we made 50 bucks for the year. So was that worth the three hours? That am I worth 15 bucks an hour? I I sure as hell hope not. I mean, I get on coaching calls and do it for 500 bucks an hour. So you know, why why spend three hours for 50 when I can help somebody and they're gonna get back that return too? Like if somebody spends 500 bucks, they're gonna get 500 bucks worth, right? I go all out. Um, and if they don't, then fine. Here's your money bag. Yeah. So you when did you stop drinking? Uh four years ago. I don't know the exact date, but it was late February, four years ago. That's cool, man. Yeah. Change it change the game, man. Change the focus. That's you know, instead of being focused on on chasing the buzz or chasing the celebration, now it's it's on chasing the activity. Because yeah, for me, it was it was about okay, I'm gonna focus on the results, party because of those results. I I deserve these results, or if it's bad, right? Then it's yeah, it shit's terrible. Oh, I better get hammered. So it just wasn't productive for me. I mean, I was still able to win and and do stuff, but not at this level. Not at this level, and not with you know, a podcast and family businesses and family, a 18-year-old daughter I was lamenting with you about. I mean, so there's a lot, there's a lot going on, and those teenagers really bang you up.
SPEAKER_00Oh I'm uh terrified. Terrified. Be terrified. I got I got some years though. Yeah, you do. Um so so you got agency vault. When did you put that together?
SPEAKER_02To I think we soft launched December of 2016. Cool. The the official launch was February of 2017. What brought it together? Well, how did that how did that form? The pain. So I there's a lot of pain involved in in doing this, whether you're an independent, whether you're an all-state, whether you're farmers, it's that that ramp up and that learning curve, right? To where for the light bulb to go on, that these people out here are the most important, and how to do that, how to find them, um to train them so that they can sell like you can to make you know to create leverage. Because I create leverage with my time if I have five LSPs that can write 30,000 plus a month, right? Huge leverage because I could do it myself, and maybe there's less headaches, but in the long run, there's likely more headaches. And then I have a job. Like I don't want a job, I want to be a business owner, and and you use a business to create leverage. I talk about my my my one of my business mentors and my business partner, Neil Trikerico. He works with Tony. Um, and most people have heard of Tony Robbins, but he helped Tony build business mastery. So, and I don't say that to make some special thing, it's just because it's part of the story. Um it's cool. And it it is pretty cool because we've got to meet him, I've got to shake hands with him. But um, but like the in losing 90,000 a month and going down this road where like to stop the momentum of 90,000 a premium going out the door every month, it's not like you just hit the button and it stops. There's a lot of there's a lot of crap going on that makes that happen, which you know may have been overlooked in the excitement and need to purchase the agency, but it is what it is, right? So valuable learning experience. In that pain, uh, I was a I reached out to to Neil because he's a he's one of my longest best friends. We went to kindergarten together, so we've known each other forever. And I knew that he'd been traveling all over the world, basically, and had just got back from Fiji, from Tony's uh Tony has a resort in Fiji. He just got back, he was all pumped, and this was pre-Facebook, I think, or at least right when it was starting. So I called him and I just said, Hey, we need to we we go on this guy's trip where we go uh to this cabin. There's like six of us from college, we do it every year. And I said, Hey, when on this trip, we need to talk about my business because I know that this is what you do, and I know that I can't keep going the way that I'm going because I'm gonna either drink myself to death or or lose the business or both, right? And so we sat down and and we built we built the plan. We created the GPS. Um, I think that's one of the easiest ways to for people to to understand. It's like, look, you may know you want to inner circle, and I know like you've been super successful, right? With you're you're in the top 10, what was it, the number 10 for best in company? Yeah, gotta bring that up. So um, but without that GPS, without knowing where do we need to go, not just I want inner circle, but specifically, how do I get to inner circle? Like, I just you know, a lot of people just hope that they'll get results by working hard. But if you don't have that goal, like if you don't have if you haven't programmed the coordinates in the GPS, you're not getting there. You can't just drive around and show up at inner circle. So, so it's it's a and and there also there is some luck, right? A lot of things have to work perfectly for that to happen. But it starts with having the right people and having the right processes in place so that you can train those people and hold them accountable to their activity.
SPEAKER_00Everything has to be measurable, everything has to be measurable.
SPEAKER_02If if and and that's what strikes me as I talk, like I've talked with thousands of agents over the last couple of years because of agency vault. And one of the things that it agents and LSPs, but one of one of the things that that I that always seems to surprise me, even though I shouldn't be surprised anymore, is is when I say, how many items do you have to write this year net of retention to hit inner circle? I don't know. And it seems like that's the first thing that you should be asking when you purchase or start an agency, right? What what are my coordinates for my GPS?
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_02Like any sales job, the first thing like you've had sales jobs, right? What's the first thing you ask the sales manager? How do I max my pay plan?
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely. Yeah, right? Like, yeah, not well, I'm gonna work my ass off and hopefully, hopefully these are my goals, and how do I get there?
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, what are my goals? Great. Now let me build the strategy. Because if you build the strategy and then you execute on the strategy, you're gonna you're gonna get results. They may not be the results that you want to get because you're gonna set benchmarks and say, Okay, here's our goal, here's what we have to do, and then you're gonna adjust if it doesn't work, right? Like if you're buying internet leads and they're not working, well, is it the leads or is it the process behind the leads? Everybody blames the leads, right? Exactly. But every lead is a phone number and a name. So how is this lead different than that lead? They're they're All the same.
SPEAKER_01Right.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Somebody will crucify me for saying that, but but it it's you know they're shooting the messenger.
SPEAKER_00I mean, if somebody's walking down the street or they're filling out a form online, what's the difference? I mean, it's just different avenues. You can't say that one is less valuable if you are talking to somebody. But however it takes to get to that person, it doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_02If if I guess you could argue a lead is no good if there's no way to get a hold of them. So if it was just a name, then that's a shame. Yeah. But if it's a name and an accurate phone number and that person picks up the phone, then it is it is our or LSP's responsibility to make that person understand why they need our solution.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02Right? Because sales is all about need. If you can't figure out what they need and then deliver that, then it is all about price.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02I know you've heard it. You've you've heard the LSP say she was price driven.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Hell yeah, she was who isn't? That's what they're right. Trained, they're they're trained to be price driven.
SPEAKER_00Of course they are. They would be insane if they weren't. In the absence of value, price is a concern. Just you got to build the value.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00People got to do that.
SPEAKER_02You can't build the value till you know what they till they tell you what they need, right? So you have to elicit from them, you have to break down all the barriers and walls and all the reasons why they don't want to talk to you in the first place. But then when you get past that and you have some trust, and they're like, this guy's okay. And I love how your team calls leads, right? That yeah, hey, hey, it's Jason. Yep. And they're like, What? Yeah, you know it's Jason. We talked last month, you know. So you keep but you create that, oh, this guy's okay, right? Like they, if you can get them to say this person's okay, or this person, I want to talk to them for at least 10 more seconds. Right now you got your foot in the door.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you have to sell them, sell them on the phone call to begin with.
SPEAKER_02Right.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Like in dating, you don't just meet the other person and start kissing them, right? It it's there's there's some stuff that leads up to that.
SPEAKER_00And so depending on which website you go to, I guess, right?
SPEAKER_02Right. Right, of course. But but there's but but there's you know, with anything, there's there's this buildup. And so unfortunately, when we call a lead, yeah, there may be a lot less time, especially if it's aged or um not real time, or we're not the first call on a real time, then there's a lot of obstacles, right? And yeah, they're likely pissed, but you gotta break through it. They're pissed. I'd be pissed too if I just got 10 phone calls.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, send a voicemail, send a voicemail, send a why did you call five times? Then I answer. And then if it's India, I freaking right. But if but if it's somebody that that is halfway nice, I I'm too nice. Like I don't hang up on them. Right. So and that's most people. We're all humans, right? If if they can appeal to our emotion and make us like them, or make we can make them like us, then then we're on to something. I think that's what's beautiful about your approach.
SPEAKER_00So would you say that the hardest thing that you've had in the last 10 years with your agency has been hiring people and training them? Sure, yeah, absolutely. And training training them to think like you with well, I I don't necessarily encourage groupth.
SPEAKER_02I want everybody to be able to think for themselves. So so we do want to train them on a specific process, but those processes can always be tweaked, right? And they don't necessarily continue to work forever. You know, in these groups, we see all this different ideas and everything. But one thing that comes up a lot is is that that notion of, hey, look, it it's or even if you talk like Russell Brunson or you know, some of these internet guys, it's test, test, test, test, test, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it same thing with with these processes. Like you may have an airtight automation on the back end that sends out approved text messages, but you know, some some kind of airtight system that goes that goes that you go through, and yeah, this this fourth message is pulling, you know, all month. And and like, wow, they're responding to this, and you know that okay, this is when we need to call them. But then the next month, like it doesn't matter. They're like, they hit stop every time they get to that fourth message, and it just it's like, okay, well, then we got to tweak it, right?
SPEAKER_00But I mean that's true, yeah. The there wasn't the I mean, what were you guys doing 10 years ago, right? Before oh man, it was the CR Wild West.
SPEAKER_02It was, it was it was rotary. No, but it was the it was called you know, it was like here's the audit, here's the list, you know, cross out, highlight, do whatever it's technique, and and again, like everybody had their own. Like, I I'm not such a mic, I'm I'm the opposite of a micromanager. So, so I I believe that they should be like me and that they should have some sort of you know drive and and ability to think for themselves. Doesn't always happen, and that's okay. Um, because and that's why you know I'm here to coach them, I'm here to help them. Um but like with with that, like everybody I I wouldn't go, you have to do it with a blue one, and you have to do it with a red one. And if they're not, it's like, look, here's the list, whatever way you need to do to manage it, given the resources that we have to manage stuff. And at that time, there wasn't even eagent, it was just freaking lists, printed out list from a dot matrix printer that you not dot matrix, but but yeah, you know, they they'd do whatever, and I'd say, look, you don't have to, there's no specific best way, it's just you have to make the calls. If you don't make the calls, I don't care what all this your legend says, and and you know what your thing is. If you don't just pick up the phone, it doesn't matter. Yeah, because you see you I'm sure you've seen that a lot, and I feel like I'm talking way too much. But no, it's all good. It's good, man.
SPEAKER_00I'm curious.
SPEAKER_02So, and I'm sure you've had this and you've seen it, and and maybe you've even done it because I know I did it. I did it at Merrill. Um, and I remember one of the older guys saying, dude, just pick up the phone. What are you doing? Like, you know, you come in and okay, today I'm gonna do it. Today I'm gonna, I just need to get organized. So I need to check. And and you know, I mean, I hear it like, oh, I had to check on Gateway to make sure they didn't know you don't just call them. I don't care, right? Yeah, you'll get good and learn from how from figuring out how to tap dance out of that uncomfortable situation where you called them and they said, I already have everything, and then you go, Well, great, is it your birthday or whatever, right? You just come up, tap dance. Like, if you can't you can't think on your feet, then you can't be successful at this job.
SPEAKER_00That's true. You we do this. Um, it reminds you of some what we haven't done it in a few months, and we should probably do it again. But we used to do uh customer Russian roulette. So we would just flip that switch, and everybody was dialing all of our current customers and talk to them about life insurance. It's like what but what product? Who cares? Get them on the colour. Just talk to them. Say thanks for being with us. Dude, I go from there.
SPEAKER_02Uh I so we do um we do different incentives for everybody here, like it just little ideas I came up with. If if somebody gets an e signs up somebody for easy pay, they get five bucks. If somebody gets gets a Google review and they're named in it, they get five bucks. But it also is like, look, when you're on that phone, you gotta come away with something. Even if it means you sign them up for easy pay or you got a Google review, that's about as non-threatening as you can get. It's like you're not selling them, you're just asked, like you just helped them, right? This person helped you, or you helped them get their ID cards, you helped them update their EOI, or you helped them with something, right? So at that point, you say, Look, I I'd I'd be really, really grateful if if I send you this link and you just click on it, and all you have to do is hit the five-star. It will literally take you five seconds. And if you if you really want to help me, then just say Debbie was great, and Craig will give me five bucks. And 99% of the time they say, heck yes, right? Like, why would they say no to that? Yep. Like everybody's had a job, yeah, and and everybody wants recognition from that job, right? Yep, most people, and and especially a little little cash, right? So, um, and I mean here, like especially some of the some of the ones that were morbidly afraid to ask for anything, like they're either not here or they embraced it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_02That's the culture now. The culture now, everybody, everybody's all about it.
SPEAKER_00What's the number one thing that you're excited about in the agency that's working that you the number one process?
SPEAKER_02I don't even know if this is a process. You mean besides agency vault?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, um the the I think the number one thing when you first started that question is the culture. Culture. Because there was I would I had I've had some stretches, and especially at the end of my drinking career, we got down to where there was zero staff um and slowly rebuilt, right? Then there was one, then there was two, then there was, and we did this whole thing, right? But in doing that, and it's hard when you when you when you get down to where you where you do a reboot, there's there's some chance of getting a bad element in because you're not slowly introducing. Um, and if you do get a bad element, you gotta like that's the thing that I've learned is it is amazing how one bad apple really literally does spoil the bunch. I just dealt with that. Yep. I mean it's and and what does it do? Like it makes your hair, it gives me circles, it makes my hair like we yeah, we had stress level completely re-reboot. Right. Right. But but it's also liberating if you have to, right? But so I've done it, I I did it last year. I had to get rid of four LSPs. We were on pace for inner circle. I mean, that it's a decision that cost a lot of money, but it wasn't it wasn't sustainable. There was somebody out of four of them, or all of them, somebody was not doing things the right way. Um, you know, nothing illegal, but but causing drama, and it just it affects everybody, right? It does not showing up and then being late and then complaining, and and it just it starts adding up, and you you just gotta cut it. Especially when you know, like if I was to give advice to people, if you know that at some point you're gonna get rid of this person, then get rid of them yesterday because all they're doing is creating problems for you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Where were you a couple months ago? Huh? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So we're gonna stop it here. Um, this is Craig Pretzinger, uh, back with you. Uh, we're gonna stop it here. We did get through about another hour and a half of chatting. Uh the the roles flipped. We ended up doing actually interviewing Jason a little bit, and we're gonna get to that in the next couple weeks. Um, but we hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please comment, uh, hit us with a subscribe on iTunes or on Google Play, and we will see you next time.