There's the bell, and welcome to the insurance dudes, a podcast for insurance agency owners, where we will have conversations and guests focus on helping you gain leverage in your agency. What's leverage? It's a business term defined as the power to get you more time and greater business success through business ownership. Agency ownership, if done correctly, absolutely will create the opportunity for you to gain more time and financial freedom. Conversely, without the right people, systems, and processes, agency ownership will become a highly stressful and possibly a low-paying job. But the spirit of this podcast is to get you thinking of different ways to move towards optimization in your business and in your life. In today's episode, we're joined by Eric Brown, a Marine veteran who served in Iraq and then went on to become a police officer, then ran an accident rescue reconstruction company, and finally landed at Allstate in 2017. Now owns a couple agencies. We went live on Facebook in the agency owners and staff group verified. Make sure to look for the group, answer the questions, and put on your seatbelt. Let's get into the talk. Nice. There you go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Busy today? Yeah, it's uh uh I'm I'm trying to ramp up on staffing right now, so that's all I've really all day. I've just been calling candidates and reviewing resumes and all that good stuff. So right on, you know, yeah. It uh this will be so I'm gonna open my second office uh sometime this summer, and uh I think this will be my last ECP uh because that'll give me two, and then after that, I should have enough uh on my books and to just start buying books. If I can because if I can build both of these by the end of four years on each to four million each, you know, that sits me at eight million. And then if I can go out and buy a five million book somewhere, something like that, you know, boom, instantly sitting on 13 million, that's a good place to be.
SPEAKER_02You can afford the debt on the five when you have a debt-free date, right? Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yep, that's exactly it.
SPEAKER_02For those of the folks on here who don't know, Eric, um, he's been in doing this for a while, has a has an awesome background. He's a marine vet. So he he he where did you serve?
SPEAKER_01Uh I was out at uh Camp Lejeune, Camp Pendleton, and I was over in Iraq for about two years. Iraq, wow, something else. Was it pretty crazy over there? Uh it's kind of like being at Miami Beach without the ocean, you know, lots of sand, everybody's got guns.
SPEAKER_02There you go. All right, so same thing. Right on. And then um, and then from there, you went into law enforcement, so you're a cop. And and how long were you a cop for? Uh 12 years. 12 years, and and there was sort of a bittersweet end to that.
SPEAKER_01It was, yeah. Uh working one night uh on midnights, running uh lights and sirens to a call, and a drunk driver ran a red light, T bone my cruiser, uh, shattered the whole right side of my body, put me off work for about a year and a half, had to have a bunch of surgeries, a bunch of plastic surgery, physical therapy, stuff like that to try and put me back together.
SPEAKER_02Man, yeah. Well, thank you for your service and for you know what you've done. And I'm and I'm really glad that you're okay. So but then that led you to the access reconstruction, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Yeah, so uh, but you know, and that was just from my time uh being a police officer, because that's what I did. I was in our traffic unit. So uh that just got me into the field of going out and investigating crashes, figure out who's at fault, stuff like that. And uh, so you know, obviously that's uh of a big value to insurance companies, which is kind of how I got my start into insurance. So, talk about that.
SPEAKER_02How did you end up doing this? How'd you get into this?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh, you know, obviously, so I had my my reconstruction company and I had uh all you know primarily uh insurance work. So uh we worked for all the different insurance industries out or all the different carriers. And so once I got injured, um I knew a couple of people at Allstate, and so they you know reached out to me and said, Hey, look, you know, we love what you do with your company. You're probably one of our favorite vendors out there. You ever think about opening an agency for us? So yeah, I was never really giving any thought. So started looking into it and was like, yeah, what the heck, you know, got nothing else to do with my time. So I figured I'd give it a shot. And how how so how long ago was that? Uh October of 17 was when I opened and just went scratch, enhanced compensation the whole way.
SPEAKER_02And and a lot of the you the um less seasoned agents struggle at that beginning, right? Because there isn't necessarily any blueprint on how to run the agency, there isn't the all of these different things, and and they get inundated with all of the different options. So so walk me through that from the from the scratch startup standpoint and what you did to get to where you are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh, you know, my big thing was just experiment with everything, you know, and that was the big thing, is is don't get laser focused on just one mindset, be open to you know other possibilities, don't and don't be afraid to pull the trigger and make a decision. Uh I love uh one of my buddies put a quote out there the other day and said, you know, the the road is paved uh with indecisive squirrels, and uh yeah, it is. You know, so don't be afraid to pull the trigger. I mean, if you see something that isn't working or something that you want to change, do it uh because you're never gonna know unless you give it a shot.
SPEAKER_02Fail somebody says fail often, and you know what I don't know what to say. It's fail all the time, fail often, but that's where where you get the experience, right? Is making those mistakes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. So that was my thing, and you know, but just just little stuff like man, if you want to change your phone system or something, people sit there moll over for six months, and it's like if what you have isn't working to the point that you're already considering changing, just pull the trigger and change it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so so that that that's really really important in Sage Advice is is pull the trigger. Um and also uh to to make those strategic bets, right? That's what this that's what business is. It's okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna look at some options here. I'm gonna try to pick the best one, and oftentimes it's it's you pick the wrong one, right? But but you make the choice and you're making that it's almost a bet, right? You're gonna make a bet on this strategy to buy, let's say we're gonna buy all state all state lead marketplace leads. Everybody says it's terrible, right? But it it can't be entirely terrible because they're in business and people buy them, and there's people that are winning using those. So it speaks to possibly maybe it's the process. Yep, exactly. As humans, and I always I catch myself doing it a lot too, is you you do something, it starts to go south, and then you instantly eject, and you're like, nope, this one isn't working without without actually going into it. Did you have any experiences like that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it actually, you know, the number one I would say would be in hiring. So, like for me, uh, you know, you see agents have a lot of great luck on Indeed. So I'm like, great, let me start an Indeed account. Well, it's expensive, you know what I mean? Because you can run your budget up $500 a month, $1,000 a month, whatever. And so these resumes start pouring in, and you can't find anybody qualified. And that was my exact knee-jerk reaction was oh dang, pull out on Indeed, don't do that anymore. You know, and then it took a month or two to realize like, hey, maybe I should reach out to some of these agents that have really good success with it and ask what they're doing different. And you find a lot of times that yeah, their process was entirely different than what I was doing. So I was just I was the one creating the problems.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh. Often it's not the thing itself, it's it's how the thing is managed.
SPEAKER_01Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02You know, because because almost any mechanism that we have available to us, whether it's you know, like Facebook leads with you guys over there, or um, or internet leads, or some something to drive the traffic to the agency, yeah. In some capability, somebody is being successful and winning at that strategy. Yep. And so um what I've found in working with and talking to lots of agents is find gravitate towards the ones that are winning at the thing you want to do, right? Because there's a lot of ways to skin the cat.
SPEAKER_01Yep, that's exactly it. So, and yeah, I mean, you know, you look at guys, you know, like you said, that complain about internet leads or Facebook leads or whatever they leads they they complain about. And uh you know, yeah, you just gotta find the people that are winning in that space and find out how they're doing it and uh you know try and crack that nut a little bit.
SPEAKER_02And then when and then once it starts working, pour the money into it. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, once you start to give gain some ground, now you got to invest.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly. You're getting ROI, pour money, it's gonna make a multiplier. Exactly. So what what was one of um, and I know that you know we all have struggles, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna pin you down here. What was one of the toughest struggles or challenges that you've had since you started? I know you said the hiring, um, but I mean, and I guess that could be it. I'd like you to talk through that, how you overcame that challenge or that struggle.
SPEAKER_01I'll tell you what, so I'll just say staffing in general was probably my biggest struggle. And I, you know, I'm a year and a half in, and I'm just now starting to feel like okay, maybe I have a handle on staffing a little bit. Um, you know, but a lot of agency owners, me myself, uh my big thing was letting my staff hold me hostage, you know, and and that's a horrible place to be in. It's a horrible place to be in where you're like, oh man, I have to go to the office today and deal with drama. And if you're in that place, man, you gotta make a staffing change instantly, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because you you're go you are going to make that staffing change if you already are upset because you have the drama.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, and uh, I mean, here, you know, just case in point. I mean, here in January, I walked into my office and and one of my producers that was writing 70, 80 items a month consistently, uh, you know, we had to part ways. His drama was bringing down the office, and you know what? Hey, look, man, sorry, I gotta let you go. And and that's a tough decision, uh, you know, for a lot of agency owners to swallow.
SPEAKER_02Very tough. It seems like sometimes the best of the best do have a little bit of uh a crazy factor to them. Yeah, if if you aren't able to manage that craziness, then it can drive you crazy. Yeah, exactly. I've had my share of those as well. Yeah, so but but what did you what happened? So let's walk through that. So you got rid of this guy, and I know that it was probably or likely it was a struggle in mentally for you to be like, uh, I'm gonna give up 80 items. And you know, how did how did you how did you handle that?
SPEAKER_01Well, and actually, so January was a big change. So I had six LSPs, uh, and actually I let three of them go in January. So I I cut my my workforce in half. Um, but I had a certain direction I wanted to go, and you know, I have a certain culture that I want to instill in my staff, and they just weren't hitting it. So I knew I had to make that change. Uh I knew coming into February that was gonna make February a rough month, but statistically looking at my my previous February, I knew this was already a rough month. So if you're already gonna have a bad month anyway, might as well just make the staffing change now and ramp up for the spring.
SPEAKER_02It often feels worse in the moment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, but surprisingly enough, I mean, my three remaining staff, I mean, they stepped up and you know, they picked up the you know, the ball, and they they're running with it. So, you know, my three staff are carrying the office. We'll pull through, we'll do better than we did last year, and only running with three staff.
SPEAKER_02So saving a little money too. That's always nice because you can take that. And and I've I've been in those situations, you know, I've had as many as 12, gone down to five, and it kind of fluctuates. And you get those situations where, well, do I bring on the additional staff that's gonna be you know three or four grand, or do I take that three or four grand and invest it in the activity for them, right? Drive drive some activity with leads. And and we've had those conversations, and when you have, you know, depending on the team you have at that moment, you know, they they could be like, Yes, give me the leads, we'll we'll pick up the Slack, right? Training somebody.
SPEAKER_01Yep, exactly.
SPEAKER_02So that's that's awesome that they that they came through for you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh, you know, like I said, that's setting me up now for a good March. And uh so in February here, I was able to focus primarily on hiring, and I I have four people that I'm on boarding here uh in two weeks, and you know, it's a little staff back up.
SPEAKER_02Do you have a a small little jail area in your office?
SPEAKER_01For me or for my staff? Either, either way, yeah. So for me, uh, I just have my bar, that's where I retreat to. Uh yeah, for uh no, so I actually I just signed a lease on my office right next door to my current office. Um, so we're gonna expand over there, and that's gonna become my new sales uh office for for my team. So the new people I'm gonna onboard are gonna onboard over there, and uh then once they're done, I'll remove the rest of my sales team over there and kind of consolidate all them just in one area.
SPEAKER_02That is awesome, awesome. So um, and and you're opening a new one. Yeah, yep, just got approved to open my second agency. And so what's the ramp up time on that for people who may be considering opening another agency?
SPEAKER_01It just depends. Uh, you know, for North Central Region right now, uh they said they're they're about five months behind. So from when they approve you, it's gonna take about five months before you can open your doors.
SPEAKER_02The company is behind, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So they don't have enough APSs and everybody else to try and help open open an office.
SPEAKER_02But you've been through it, so that maybe, you know, that they'll be you won't have those same growing pains, which is kind of nice.
SPEAKER_01Right, exactly. You know, and the way I look at it, that's fine for me. Um, you know, start bringing staff in now. I mean, I'm already looking at hiring and uh, you know, starting to bring those people in and get them trained up so that day one we can go out there and just crush it.
SPEAKER_02What's your what's your plan for staff size?
SPEAKER_01Uh so I'm a I'm a little aggressive on my next office here on open. Uh, I would like to do 15 uh PNC producers and five life-only producers.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. That is awesome. And you will. If you believe you'll do it, then you will do it.
SPEAKER_01Yep. So up there I'll open uh with 20 sales and uh one additional service to add to my service team here.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna take a quick break here and introduce our sponsor. Uh, your insurance podcast, your insurance dudes podcast is sponsored by Agency Vault, an industry leader in agency coaching, hiring, and sales training. Agency Vault's unique connection between the hiring process and the sales training process has helped thousands of insurance sales producers and agents gain confidence and strengthen their abilities to sell more policies with its powerful seven-step trusted advisor sales framework. For more information, navigate to www.agencyvault.com. And now back to episode three, interview with Eric Brown.
SPEAKER_01You know, what's the biggest win so far? Um it's exactly like we talked about, you know, find a path that works for you, uh, diversify, but then just dive in. Once you start finally getting traction, don't be afraid to invest in yourself, you know. And that's another thing that I hear from a lot of agents as they go, you know, well, I want to invest in the stock market, or I want to invest over here, I want to invest in here. Why wouldn't you invest in your own business that you control? You control the destiny of that business.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So why are you not investing in that and grow your business that you own? And you know it, you know the market, you know how it operates, you know all the things that you need to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. So right. So, you know, the way I look at it, and and you know, I just said this the other day, and uh a lot of agents think I'm crazy, and that's okay. I like to be crazy. Um, you know, but last yeah, you know, so last year uh we did a million dollars in just Facebook leads alone. That's my really my only advertising that we did. Um, so this year, uh, you know, I just saw one of my buddies did uh 780k in one month. So I'm like, well, why can't why can't it why can't I do a million dollars in one month? And you know what? So then then the idea came, I'm gonna see if I can throw enough money onto my Facebook marketing to write a million dollars in one month in in Ohio.
SPEAKER_02To write, so that what kind of budget would it take to write a million in premium? Uh a big one.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01Uh it just it depends, you know. Yeah, so different different months hit uh hit differently, um, with about ten thousand dollars, uh a little bit less. Um, so if you do about seven thousand dollars, can get you about a hundred and twenty grand in premium, uh is is roughly what I'm seeing. So, you know, I figure if I look at twenty-five to thirty thousand, I should be about there.
SPEAKER_02That is awesome. So it's let's back up. I I think that if if if people are paying attention, and when they do that, that you just said something that I think is is that little golden nugget that people are constantly asking, you know, how much do I need to spend? What should I get? Say that again. You spend seven thousand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I spend currently about seven thousand a month now to to write about a hundred and twenty thousand-ish.
SPEAKER_02Right, which which even for a a regular agent like me, not a non-ECP agent, that's almost doubling. Yeah, at a seven thousand spend, you're writing that much, so it's it's it's very exciting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Yep, exactly. So don't be afraid to spend that money. I mean, that's what it's there for. You know, it is, yeah, and invest. I mean, invest in yourselves, especially you know, when you start getting bonus time and everything, man, set some of that bonus money aside and use it for when that month hits, and we all know that month, you know, where you're going along and nothing else has changed, but all of a sudden, like one month you just start crushing it. You know what I mean? Like deals are just closing left and right, and that's the month, man. That's the month. Just go all in, just go all in. I mean, if you're closing business that month, man, just put the pedal to the metal, go press it harder, right? Exactly. Don't just be like, oh, well, I made out this month, like you should have made out more.
SPEAKER_02Well, when when my my folks they get they get a big, you know, big house, you know, five items or whatever, and and they're all excited. I'm like, this is when you go right back on the phone and you crush it because you have the momentum. Yeah, absolutely. Celebrate, okay. I'm done. No, you don't mic drop. This is when you push the pedal to the metal. Yeah, absolutely. And finish strong. Finish strong, finish strong. That is awesome. Well, hey, uh, we appreciate you have appreciate you hopping on. Um, this show is going to be called uh coming soon, The Insurance Dudes. Um, Jason Feltman's gonna be joining me on this, so it's gonna be a lot of fun. We're gonna bring a lot of uh cool different ideas and energy to it. Uh, we'll probably have you back because you you and we'd like to hear about after the open. Yeah, nice.
SPEAKER_01I'm I'm guessing what's the date, the target date? So our target date now uh they floated somewhere between uh June or July, just depending on kind of where everything's lining up.
SPEAKER_02It'll be 125 degrees here when that happens.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, we'll be lucky to be in the we'll be lucky to be in the 70s.
SPEAKER_02Come out and visit to get in the cool air. There you go. Well, hey, that Eric, thanks so much for joining. Um, and we will we'll we'll hit you up, get you back on down the road. Absolutely. I appreciate it, man. Have a good one. Thank you. Take care.
unknownSee ya.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for joining the Insurance Dude Podcast. We will see you next week, episode four. Already episode four. Insane. So glad that you could listen and grateful that you joined. We'll see you next week as we talk to Travis Turner, who is going to talk about a lending referral process that has gotten him a ton of new business and filled his pipeline. Until next week. This is Craig Pretzinger on Insurance News Podcast.