The Write Path #53 - “Pitching Sales,” with Author Bryan Charleau!!!

Bryan is the author of Pitching Sales! A Complete Guide to Becoming a Sales Professional, which takes a mentorship-focused approach to preparing people for a career in sales.
Unlike many sales books that focus on techniques and tactics, his work focuses on helping individuals build the mindset, confidence, and foundational skills needed to become true sales professional. Focusing on their development within the first 18 months.  He enjoys speaking about breaking into the sales profession, mentoring new salespeople, helping growing businesses introduce and structure effective sales roles, and the personal growth that comes from taking risks and redefining what you’re capable of achieving.  Listen now!

His Website:   https://www.pitchingsalesconsulting.com/
His book:  https://www.amazon.ca/Pitching-Sales-Complete-Becoming-Professional/dp/1738651606/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Welcome to the Write Path Podcast, where being an author, an actual author, still matters. This isn't the place for the Chat GPT experts or the AI buffs to churn out soulless content with no heart.  This is the place where authors share their journeys, explore their creativity, examine the "Why?" behind it all and come together to celebrate each other. This is the podcast for authors, about authors, and by an author, where the truth still counts and words still have power. Join Us!  You have a story to tell!

Contact us on all our social media platforms and email us at thewritepathpodcast@gmail.com  

This is the place where authors know that every page... is a step forward. Let's move forward together, let's move forward today. Listen now.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Right Path Podcast, where being an author, an actual author, still matters. Folks, this is a place where we explore our creativity, we talk about our journeys, and most importantly, we get to the why behind it all. Our guest today, uh Man After My Own Heart, with uh with this topic. He's a 15-year sales professional. And whenever I'm talking to sales guys, boy, I tell you what, I just I empathize because I've been there. Uh, he's also the author of Pitching Sales, a Complete Guide to Becoming a Sales Professional. Please welcome to the show, Brian Charlot. Brian, how are you doing, brother?

SPEAKER_00 0:38

I'm doing great. I've been looking forward to this conversation. So I appreciate you having me, Rory.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Oh, not at all. My pleasure. Um, I mean, 15 years in sales. We're just gonna start there because people who have not actually been in sales as a profession don't quite get exactly what that means. Um tell me a little bit about Brian, a bit a little bit about Brian's uh you know sales career, uh a little bit about those 15 years and kind of what led you to this moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah, looking back, it's still a bit of a blur uh now. And I think you kind of hit the the nail on the head there leading into it. Expectation and reality can be two very different things for people uh that are entering into this uh this profession. Um, and that can be a good thing and uh almost a double-edged sword, if you will. Some people think that they're born for sales and they're extrovert and they don't mind talking to people and they can leave the room and they think that it's just gonna be this seamless transition into a career that works out. Well, sure, they can have a ton of success, but the hardships and hurdles and roller coasters and hills and valleys that go into creating that career, even if you have all those qualities, uh, are still gonna be there. And maybe it's it's gonna come to them a little bit harder than they maybe first expected. Um, and that's okay, and that's a natural progression with getting into this because it is a lot harder than it seems from the outside for those people. And secondly, on the other side of it, there's a ton of people who don't think they can be salespeople. I hear it all the time. It's like I could never be a salesperson, I could never do what you do or what people in this profession do. The the reality is they they most likely could if they just harness their strengths that they don't realize their strengths for this profession better, and then worked on those weaknesses that they might find. Uh the reality is anybody can be good in this profession. It's just a matter of balancing what qualities you are good at, understanding that it's going to take a lot of hard work, a lot of growth and learning to get that goes into it, and putting it all together over a long career and and and building and growing uh yourself, you can have success in this, regardless of your personality, type of person you are. And I truly believe that. Um, and that's you know, kind of some of the realities that people don't get. And you you see it all the time when you're in this long enough, and and I believe that you can have that success if you put the work in.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Nice. So, what got you into sales in the first place? You know, uh how what did that entry look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yeah, I actually started as a summer job when I was in university. Uh, I was taking uh some business classes, I was looking into marketing, I was looking into entrepreneurship and um just different fields within the business sector. Uh, and I just kind of wanted to a little extra change in my pocket to pay for some of the schooling costs, making sure that I still had a social life when I went out uh during the year. And you know, how much went into each bucket, you know, is to be determined. But it's uh it I really just started, and I and I very much focus on this um when I'm when I'm talking on podcasts or in the book. I was just looking at it as a sales job at that time, and that just meant going to work that day, um, trying to get a sale as best I could, and then clocking out and going about the rest of my life. Um, and the real change happened many years down the road when I decided it was no longer a sales job. This was my sales, I wanted to be a professional salesperson, which is a complete different mind shift that people have to go through when they realize this is how I'm gonna be providing for myself, for the my family, the people who lean on my support. And that's when this whole dynamic shifted in my mind. And and again, what down the road led to writing this book. So um a long journey that I didn't expect to be here, but I think a lot of people get to places where they didn't expect to be when they look back five, 10, 15 years um back down the road they came.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Yeah, it's so funny because I I agree with you completely. Most of us who were in sales for a long time, um, we didn't wake up and go, you know what I want to be when I grow up. Yeah, I want to be in sales, right? But there's something though about sales, uh whatever it might be, that just makes it so uh attractive, or it just fits what we need in our lives, you know, that type of thing. And to be honest, you know, for me and a lot of other people, and I'll admit it, uh, it was money. I mean, look, you you go out, you eat what you kill. I mean, the harder you work, the more you make, type of thing. Uh, is that kind of where you were, or was there something a little more altruistic about it?

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Yeah, I think when you first get that taste of commission that you've really put some work into it and realized uh and watching the sales process come to fruition and getting benefited by that by getting some extra money on the end of your paycheck that isn't just your base, uh, it almost becomes somewhat addicting uh in a positive manner. Yeah, uh, on seeing um what you can potentially become within that profession. And I talk about it all the time, and I it's a big part of my book that I think it's the greatest profession, outside of those glamorous ones like being a rock star or a professional athlete or something like that. I think sales is the greatest profession because you can give yourself a raise the next day after looking into something, reading it, researching, doing extra work behind the scenes. You can go out and get that sale from something you've learned the night before. And you've just given yourself a raise where some people have to go to school for an extra two years or wait and sit on a promotion and do all this other work and maybe not even get it. Whereas sales, you're providing this for yourself, and really the limitation is how much work you put into it and continuing to grow and be successful and learn the sales process and understand that this is more than just luck and numbers, which some people on the outside think it is. There, it's partially that you anyone can stumble into a perfect scenario and get and get a sale, but a lot of it has to do with understanding yourself, asking the right questions to customers, putting them first and knowing that you're there for them. And if you have that mindset, you're gonna have a really long, fruitful career. Uh, and which with literally this the sky is the limit when you put that work in.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Love that. I love the way you're looking at it, too. You know, the entire perspective. Now, within uh the book, um, the way that you kind of approach things here, it's from a mentorship viewpoint, and you aim a little more at the new salesperson coming in. I'm curious, with you know, with the people you've seen with you've worked with that you kind of based the book to help. Um what is it about their viewpoint that's different? Uh, maybe coming in than what the reality really is that you're trying to kind of help them adjust to?

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Yeah, and and the reason I focused on that first 18 months of somebody coming in into this sales world, this ecosystem, as I like to put it, because it really is its own entity uh when you're getting into the sales side of any business. Uh, and the reason I focused on them is I thought there was a massive gap uh in the industry for helping those people. Uh, because the reality is, is what companies will do if they're hiring somebody without sales experience, is they overhire, they let the dust settle, and then just put resources towards the people that survive that first six months to one year. And then what they'll do is they'll just rehire a bunch of new people and just keep replaying this system, and they don't really worry about the turnover, and you're kind of left there on an island on your own, trying to survive because you're not going to get too much respect and help until you've kind of made it past this first checkpoint as a salesperson. And whether you like it or not, that's just the reality of it. And when I was, you know, 10 years down the road when the when the book started coming to fruition, I was talking within a network of people that and friends that I had made that are within sales. And even though we came from different industries, different uh geographical locations, different backgrounds, we all had these overlapping similarities with our first sales jobs or our first couple as we're trying to keep our head above water and just learn the process of selling and becoming good at it and becoming consistent at it. And and I was like when I first got into sales and when I had that mind shift of becoming a professional, I dove into so many books, uh, hard copies, audible books, podcasts. I was trying to consume as much as I could, which I and I came across some great information, but the the target audience was more good salespeople trying to become great, not not this this this window of people who don't know where to turn. Because it what good is a closing pitch if you're afraid to pick up a phone? You know what what good is the the greatest um you know concepts and closing techniques and all these resources that they're offering if every time you face rejection, your your body just kind of shuts down and your nervous system starts to panic, and because it's something you haven't felt before. There was nothing out there to help those people, but I can assure you, every salesperson that's made it down the road now has felt that and dealt with it. And to actually provide some sort of assistance and mentorship for those people was a big um aspect of why I I could I felt I could help some people out there that were getting into this.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

I love that. The um I'm gonna go a little off book for a minute here, pardon the pun. But the um you've been doing this 15 years in terms of selling. About 10 years ago is when the or 10 year after 10 years, you got the book idea. It kind of started processing. And I want to get into that, but I'm curious if you've seen uh any changes, uh any differences in the entry-level salespeople, sort of their uh tenacity, maybe their personalities uh over the last you know 15 years, because you've seen a lot of different generations and different things kind of come and go in that time span. Any thoughts, any observations? I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Well, I think there was a major shift in selling in the last five years, and I hate bringing up the topic, but when we we discuss what COVID did with uh a shift in um being able to do things remotely, even if those people are nearby. And I understand that there are times when you know geographical locations don't make it make sense, and it's actually a wonderful thing to be able to have this contact with these people and be able to see them face to face. But what I did find a shift, and and this kind of came in with some entry-level people uh as well, but even seasoned salespeople, they got a little bit lazy in that aspect of human personal communication and actually going to visit customers and clients and providing a service via in-person visits and actually going to people's offices and shaking their hand and sitting down with them and learning about them, uh, picking up on nonverbal communication cues, which is obviously a little bit more seasoned topic when it comes to sales. But I felt as a as a as a whole, um, a lot of salespeople were just getting a little bit lazy and taking the easy route out. And the successful people that I saw around me were the ones who went back to those original habits uh that take a little bit longer to do, and you have to go a little bit more out of your way to do though and have those conversations. But what you can gain from it is huge. And with entry-level people, the some of them just uh to your point don't have that same tenacity, but it's just because they haven't had it brought out of them yet, they they have it, they just haven't had to use it as much, and it's it's not a built-up skill that I'm seeing as often. I'm not speaking on behalf of everybody, but in the general form, and a lot of new people will come into this this profession, and it's not what they expected, it's harder than what they thought it would be. It's not this easy money glitch that some people have an expectation of, and they don't, and they get out of it. And to be honest, those people maybe sales isn't for them because it's not for everyone. Everyone can be successful, but it's not for everybody. Um, so yes, I did see some changes, but I also see it reverting back um to a more personal, personal ability to to have an interaction with somebody and gain their trust and ask good questions and see them and learn and understand their business um in sales. And I find that technique much more um fruitful, you know, coming into 2026.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

That's awesome. I appreciate you sharing that. You know, I it people know that none of these questions are scripted, so you know, if I hit you with something on a left field, it's like, well, first time I've asked him this question.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

So yeah, no, and I prefer that because it's it's all things that we're dealing with, and uh, and I'll and I'll be the first to to say, like, hey, you know, I have I don't quite know if I if I don't know, but to your point, that's something I've definitely uh saw, but I also see it trending back in the direction that I think is a positive, a positive one, right on.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

No, I like that. Um, all right. So you're in the business 10 years, and this book starts to develop. What is it that causes that? You know, you're sitting there 10 years, and something inside you is going, I I see this problem, and uh, I, Brian, need to do something about this. Wait, what's going on there? Where's that coming from?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yeah, it was a slow simmer uh for a little while. Uh, and it really just started to develop when I saw good people uh failing at getting into sales. Uh at the time, I guess I was probably early 30s when it was kind of starting to develop, and they said I had hit that that 10-year mark. And I'm just seeing people coming into the industry and and not knowing, and we're being asked to mentor others or take them under our wing as they enter our industry, and and they they weren't willing to put the work in when you asked them something, or you told them, or you were running into trouble because you're trying to have your own career at the same time. It's not as if we're sitting around twiddling our thumbs either. We're providing for ourselves and our family, and we're being asked to help these new people out in the industry. And I was going to a conference, a sales conference, but it wasn't specifically to my industry. And it was kind of just a roundtable conversation about what we wish we had been told or learned when we had started. And I heard some really good ideas thrown around. I thought, yeah, like that would have been really helpful if I had heard that. And then that's when it really started to hit me that there was this overlap, this van diagram, if you will, where it didn't matter where you were coming from, everybody was struggling with similar issues that even if they weren't identical, they rhymed. And I was like, there's nothing out there to help people because I was very lucky in certain situations that I had really great managers that became really good mentors and really good seasoned um veteran salespeople in the companies I was working for that was willing to help me, but I know not everybody gets that. So if they are dropped in a in a similar situation where they they didn't know what to do, who to turn to, and those people weren't around them, what were they supposed to do? And this is just happening everywhere. So I kind of just started writing these ideas down, and I was I I kind of wanted to show you this. This is just this is from who knows, 15 years ago now, but it's just this it's it was so old it fell out of the book that it was originally in. But it's just these points I was jotting down uh about objectives and what um who's right for sales and what do you know, what what is important to them, what's gonna help them succeed, what's gonna actually prevent them from seeing just little nuggets of information. And I it was still a pie in the sky idea that I would write a book at that time, but I it was just festering in me. So I'm like, I better write this down, better put pen to paper to make sure it's there in case I want to use it as a resource later. And then I actually started reaching out to people like good friends of mine. I said, like, what do you wish you knew when you started? And uh all these things started creating like, yeah, that's a good that's a good one, too. That's a good one. I'm like, have you ever found any books that talked about this stuff? And no one could come up with one that talked about starting in sales, it's always good to great, not like how to get going. So eventually I had this whole set of notes, and I'm staring at it one day. I'm like, Am I gonna do this or am I not? You know, uh, and it's a hard kind of existential question when you still have your own career to worry about because you know, sitting there, like you I didn't make it to make money, I had my career to rely on for that. But I was like, I have so many people that help me out. Can I now look at this and pay it forward in a mentorship role, not to somebody specific, but to a broader audience of new people who were looking to become sales professionals, and then, like I said, change their mindset from job to career in sales and and you know, just a summer job to being a professional at this. And then, okay, if you are willing to do that, here's what it takes, because it's not glamorous. I wanted to give them an unvarnished true stories from not only myself but other people around me, and say, Listen, this is the reality. If you think you can do this, this can be the best career you could ever think of. But if you're not willing to do this, trust me, it's not gonna be easy. So that's kind of how it grew and festered the long story of it.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

That's all good. I love that you have the notes still.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

I put I tucked them away, like I said, they fell out of the book, and they're actually sitting with my very first ever printed draft of my original, original. Um, you know, what I don't know how many pages that was, but my first first time I ever hit print and and read through it uh in full.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Nice. Do you have the book with you?

SPEAKER_00 19:39

I do, yeah. I got a clip.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Anyone who's watching the video version, show it to everybody. So all right, pitching sales, a complete guide to becoming a sales professional.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

It went from went from that to that before and after.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

I like the cover, that's nice. Yeah, all right, excellent. All right, well, I I gotta ask you a couple of book questions. You know, I mean, this is the right path, so that's what we're talking about. But I mean, I can talk to you about sales probably all day long and just keep comparing notes. Um, but the uh you've you've put you put it into a book and you're like, all right, I got my notes. Am I gonna do this or am I not? Here we go. And the decision's made, right? Brian's like, I'm going for this. So you start putting it together. What's the process like for you at that point? Are you I'm gonna write an hour a day, or you're like, whenever something hits me, I'm gonna put it in my notepad and then sit down and put it all together. What's the process for you, sales guy, now of putting this book together?

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yeah, so as I mentioned, I had I've been collecting these notes randomly and these ideas for by that point, it's probably at least a year, year and a bit. So it was no overnight process for me because I don't look at myself as an author. If you had asked me just before I started taking this note, these notes, if I would ever write a book, I would say no. I've never even thought about it. It was never a bucket list goal of mine um throughout the process, it it just kind of came to be. And with that in mind, that's kind of why I stared at these notes for so long. Like, am I gonna do this? Because it was never anything I had originally intended on doing. So now became, well, you've got enough notes to to start and and get rolling. Um, are you gonna do this? And I thought, well, what does it take to write a book? Like, what goes into this? Like, I had no idea. Like, I literally just had a piece of paper full of notes, I had no idea what to do. So I must have Googled for about five minutes about what it takes to write a book. And I thought, no, if I get down this rabbit hole, I'm not gonna do it. Like, that's what I did, and I'm I don't some people have the complete other mindset where they want to research everything and have this whole strategic plan. And I appreciate everything that goes into that. I was scared, I Was gonna to research myself out of it. So what I did is I just started writing. Um, and I would usually do it at night, I would usually do it uh late, like we're talking like nine until like 11 at night, or sometimes later, depending on how things were going. I just preferred to to work, plus I was still working my own job, so I still would come home and I still had things I had to do and social life and all this stuff. So I would write at night, and then and I just kept and I didn't even think about the actual what's what's next. I was like, there's no point in what's next if I don't have something on paper. So I did that. Um, and then finally, I don't even know what the word count or the page count was at that time because I still had to add to it. But I was like, I think I'm far enough along that I'm pot committed to doing this. So let's, you know, hit print and take a look at what's there so far, and and there's no turning back, is essentially where my mind was at at that time, and then it just dominoed from there. But the concept was don't psych yourself out of this, get to the point where you can't go back. And and luckily, I did get to that point, and as I said, just hit print and that started the whole process kind of on my own in my room at you know, midnight working on this.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Nice, all right. So so you got it, you've gone through all this stuff. I mean, you're working the late nights, you put the book together, yeah, right? And so then I mean, is it uh did you find an editor? Did you go through all that stuff and go through all that? Did you find a publisher? What came first there in terms of the chicken or the egg? And what'd you end up doing next?

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, that's uh that's really good because when I when I did I I the first time I read it, it was it run on sentences and grammatical errors, and things were in the wrong spots, it had no flow to it. And for anybody who has written a book, do not think that your first edition, your first draft is the finished product, because I was like, This is this isn't terrible. Like I read through it and it it took me, it took me like 10 hours to read through and and just do the basic editing of it with actual like pen to paper printed out going over it, and I just think like, what did I get myself into? Because this this is this isn't gonna help anybody, right? And then this is where like that imposter syndrome starts to to creep in. And but I was like, no, or I'm like, no, there's a there's raw good information here, I just need to tweak with it and and do this. And I also should tell I hadn't told anybody anywhere that I had been writing this, like this was just to complete my own oh no kid, yeah. So one person had had come across me when I was writing and they were asking what I was doing. I was like, I'll kind of tell you. But in general, no one had even known what I was doing, so finally I edit it and I fix it up, and I was just doing this myself, and I finally brought in a friend of mine because I was so nervous about how bad the editing was, even though I had edited it, it just not my strength, that I was worried about sending it to an editor because they were gonna look at this and like, well, you gotta edit it first. And I was gonna be like, I well, I did. Right, I actually put a lot of work into it, it's still that bad. So I actually brought a friend in who's really good with that stuff, and I was like, Hey, this is something I'm working on. What do you, you know, can you help me out here? And at the time, I thought it was gonna take me, I don't know. I I don't know why I thought this, but again, I didn't know what these steps were gonna be like. I thought it was gonna take like maybe like 10 total hours. We went through that thing 50 plus hours on like Zoom, and and God bless him for putting up because he didn't ask to get involved in any of this, right? But he did such an amazing job. How we were going over like you think it's just gonna be general stuff, and then you're like, Well, I used that word two lines ago, so I can't use that again, but actually, it works better on this line, so let's change the one from two lines ago that we just edited. But now, if we use that word, it doesn't really work as well, so we got to change like it just you just get in these rabbit holes, and then the words start to blend together. Um, but we were having fun with it, like as much as as dreadful as it seemed like the idea that we were creating something like this um was actually starting to like build and grow, and the as we were getting closer and the thrill was good. So then once we went through that, we took our 50 hours and and I bought him something nice for all the time and work he had put in. And he definitely gets the first shout out, like in the acknowledgments of the book for the for the help, but um sent it off to an editor. Um, and then I looked into the I'm trying to go back to the process that I went because I was like, this was never a project to like some I'm gonna get rich off this book type of idea. The concept, it was more so could I could I do this if I told myself I was going to like can I actually stick through it and and do it? And also too, I believe like once I saw that finished edited product, I'm like, I really truly believe this can help somebody, and if it helps one or two people thrust their career, then then that makes it worth it to me, right? So that was my so I was like, I'm I'm not gonna go through the process of of finding a publisher and doing this. I I looked into okay, if I get it edited, and then I I was working with um oh my goodness, what are those sites called where you get those independent workers for you?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Uh like you can hire people that are yeah, like Fiverr and places like that where you exactly five.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Yeah, I was called we we work or but yeah, that's exactly so. I looked on there and I saw some great, great people actually. And the person that I um I kind of independently hired did a phenomenal job. They had done books before, they walked me through the whole process and just made me feel 10 times more comfortable. Um, because I I just let them know I'm like, hey, I haven't done this, I've got this edited book that I'm not sure what to do with next. And um, I still hadn't come up with a name for it. Um, but I I was like, what's the you know? So I'm working with these people just bouncing ideas off of them. I'm just reliving this all now, right? As I haven't really actually said it out loud, dude for a while. But this person kind of walked me through it, they let me know all the steps I had to go, and then they're like, Okay, like what's the name? I was like, I haven't really come up with a name yet. They're like, Okay, well, that's kind of important because if you look back, the name doesn't actually change to pitching sales um uh until like the very, very last draft. There was actually my friend's wife that helped me come up with it because she was just like, Well, what are you trying to do? I'm like, Well, I'm trying to pitch the the career of sales, like I think it's just such an amazing. She's like, So you're pitching sales. I'm like, Yeah, I'm like, and she's like, Well, there it is. I'm like, Oh, you know, I kind of I was like, I never even looked at it that way. So, anyways, I gotta give her a a shout out for for helping with that, and um then it was creating a cover and um you know, all these final steps that you just again, I'm really happy I didn't look at them at the very, very beginning because it again it might have psyched me out. So then I had the cover and the and then like I did hire another person to be like the graphic designer to come up with the cover because I was like, I got an idea, like I want it to be in a boardroom, you know, and they it took like 10 different and I felt bad. I was like, No, that's not what I like. That and they're like, Okay, we're we're getting close. I don't know. Like, I feel like you've uh hopefully people that are listening to this have had similar struggles because it was just I'm just learning to ride the bike the whole time, yeah. And each each time it just progressed, I was like, Oh, I didn't even think of that, I didn't think of that. So um that it was just such a like I look back, it was actually fun. There's a ton of roadblocks, but you're just seeing this this again, this first copy that you thought was terrible just grow into this slowly mold into this finished copy. Um, and then one day, like I put it up on Amazon and I I had him send me a and I was like, I don't know what it's gonna look like in person, and and it just arrived, you know, and you're just like I'm just looking at it like oh wow, this is this is real, right? It just like I don't know how you felt the first time the first book you ever had arrived in the mail. Like it's it's a surreal feeling.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

That's the word surreal. It's like, is this actually did I just is that what I'm holding? It's hard to believe.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah, yeah. Uh and it's funny too because uh up until again that point, I think by that time, like maybe five people knew that I was doing this, less than less than ten. And then all of a sudden I have a few of these copies that I kind of want to just soflaunce around people that I knew, and I also wanted to give copies to the people that helped me out behind the scenes and and all that, and just like you wrote a book. I'm like, Yeah, I yeah, I guess I did. Like it was almost it was almost weird to say yes to that question. I don't know if you felt that or if you've talked to other people that kind of say the same. It's like you wrote a book, and you're just like, Yeah, and then it's but it all seems like a blur.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Yeah, I felt it. Everybody I talked to felt it. You know what this is kind of like? It's really funny. Um, when you sit there and you watch brand new salespeople and you see all the pain they're going through, and you're like, Yep, I've been there, I totally get it, I understand. That's what it's like sitting over here hearing your story about becoming an author, because we all went through it. Every one of us had those exact same, what am I doing? Is this even real? You know, and what's the next step? And you it's kind of like you go to the dentist and you want to brush your teeth first. You don't want to send it to the editor until you've edited it because you were like, This is so bad, you know. Yeah, whether it happens to everybody.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Uh, it's you're right, and just you you're almost like trying to cover your own trail before you send it to the next person. And like I said, for the I was like, I didn't, I was scared for the editor to see how bad my own editing skills were, because that person would be like, How is this guy writing a book if he can if he can't edit it, right? So these are all definitely thoughts. So and I'm sure other people have said this as well, but for anybody who's got an idea for a book and has listened to this podcast, I promise you that if I can fumble my way through these steps, you can do it and you can do it much better than I could have. So so trust me, it's it's more so about the belief in the idea that you're writing about, you know, like I am uh I will always be the person, I will never give um advice in the sense I'll always try to lead from the front. I will I I want to experience if I'm gonna tell you about it and I'm gonna tell you how to overcome it and get through it, hopefully I've experienced it myself. And and am able to give that first hand experience on how to do this. And that's how I felt like I was talking to these new salespeople, certainly never from a place being above them, because I'm still working and grinding every day in my own career. So I'm telling you from I might, if you reach out to me, I might tell you something I dealt with last week, you know, and that's that's fun to me. It's like the sales is no not a boring profession, there is something new that that's coming at you every day, and I like to be able to tell that from a first hand experience so that when they hear it, they can trust me and understand in my voice that you know I'm I'm looking, I'm saying this on your behalf because I've experienced and and if I can help you get through it a little bit easier than what I was, and I can you know help that trajectory of your career a little bit steeper than what mine was, then it then it's worth it for me to to offer that.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Well, I appreciate you sharing all of your story the way you are, 100%. The um, you know, let me uh ask you this then too, but as a salesperson and now as an author, okay, because you are an author. We need to put that cape on and start wearing that, bro. Okay, you are now. Uh, congratulations also on being a published author, man, because that's it's awesome that you made it uh to that point. Um, once the book's here, then people kind of have this realization, and maybe it hits you a little different because you understand sales, but people who weren't salespeople first they get the book and they go, Oh, now I have to sell this. What was your plan for that? How has that worked? What did that entail?

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Well, my plan was I didn't have one, that's for certain, to start. It kind of showed up, and like I said, then I was like, huh, here it is. And then I was like, Oh, now what? Right, and it's like you can't just sit there and hit refresh on the report to see if books are flying off the shelf, right? It's just not a reality to it, right? So um, I did work uh with a company that actually helped with uh self-published people to help understand the process of getting it up onto Amazon, that process, uh using tag words, um looking at on how to kind of expose it. Um, but I it's it's hard because you're then now trying to once again you're balancing your own day-to-day profession and your own life, and then trying to um get this out there and expose it. And one of the best ways that I found being in sales and being comfortable with talking to people was you know, reaching out and getting on platforms like podcasts to talk about it, and it it felt really comfortable to do because again, it's all things I went through and experienced and live and all this, so it's not difficult to you know, maybe you can tell I could talk about this for for hours and hours. So I found that to be the most fun way to expose it and then start using word of mouth to get out there and and letting friends and you know, family read it, expose it because you need comments and you need all these algorithm things that you got to worry about when you're when you're dealing with selling it online. And I also got I've I forgot the process, I got it on Audible too, so that was a whole different ball game to get uh hiring somebody to read it because I don't have the the capabilities, I don't have a recording studio in my house that I'm aware of. So I had to you know pick through these voice actors, I would give them a snippet of the book, and then they'd send me clips. And I picked somebody and sent them, and they did it. So that was a whole another process. So I don't know, it just it's still something I'm working on. I'll be the first to admit when it comes to actually um getting exposure with the book and and getting out and selling it. It's not still not my forte yet. Um, and it's something that I I put on the back burner sometimes for my my own personal career. Um, now I say this as it was never meant to um make money for me, but it was meant to provide an outlet and and help people out. So I still wanted to get out there for those reasons. So I did come up with a website after like pitching salesconsulting.com. Uh, I've had a few people actually reach out and and ask for some one-on-one consulting, which I've walked them through, which are really fun avenue that I did. It's still a small part of the business, but it's still there and people reaching out. Um, it's not as if my my inbox is flooded, but it's certainly consistent enough that it it kind of brings me some pride knowing that it is out there and it is being read, and people are um believing in the advice and it's actionable and they're asking questions on what they're doing. So lots of fun sides to it. To that, it's just this growing entity that's just festering on the side and slowly growing, and it's really fun to see it kind of evolve.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Yeah, it's neat. Uh, you know, the whole time I'm listening to this, I'm like, this is the type of thing that launches, you know, a coaching career, coaching salespeople, you know, doing that type of thing, you know, starting a group and all these other deals, uh, all the way that we all make money online, you know. And um I I wondered if you had thought of that or if that was part of the plan from the get-go, or if maybe that's just where it's materializing.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Yeah, it's slowly growing that way. I do have some aspirations to actually help out with uh like creating a training program for companies that hire um uh entry-level salespeople without experience to help. Um, because I just don't I think it's a missing resource. I think typically they'll just pull people off, they'll pull a manager off the sales floor and bring them in to talk to five candidates for you know an hour about XYZ or the product or whatever it is, like just they're just kind of slapping it together because as we talked about earlier, they really it's like this this training, they hire five, ten new people every quarter. So they just it's just this uh redundant thing that they're doing, and they're not putting a lot of resources into it. And I really think that companies could do a much better job, and it would actually save them money and and make them more if they could produce a better entry-level salesperson through their training, it's gonna produce them more revenue off the bat for one, but also B, it's gonna reduce their turnover and in time, you know, save them this time and money that they're putting into this onboarding that they just kind of baked into, yeah, we'll hire 10, two will stick around. Next quarter we'll hire 10, one will stick around. And this just ongoing process as the turnover happens.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

That's great, though. I mean, consulting with businesses, you know, is a great way to do it. Um, you know, you can consult individual folks, you know, on becoming better at what they're doing. It's once you start that consulting/slash coaching thing, I mean, the sky really is the limit. Yeah, this is exactly the type of book that that opens the door to that sort of thing for you. So uh, brother, I'm all the all the good wishes in the world uh on getting that going, because uh, I mean that's what I do for a living, you know, honestly, is I coach stuff and I do podcasts, and uh you want to talk about liberating.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Yeah, oh, I bet amazing. And I bet too, like starting a podcast is no different than than starting a or writing a book, in my opinion, when you have an idea of what you want to talk about, that the benefits you think you can bring to somebody who's listening, and you and you get this idea of festering, but at some point you got to go out and you gotta get the equipment and you gotta actually put your first episode out there into the ether and have that same um you know, imposter syndrome, probably similar to when your your book got released. Like, am I helping somebody and believing in what you're doing and getting better and evolving and all those things? I I would assume it's very similar to that. So, people that are this isn't just about writing a book, it could be about starting a podcast, it could be starting a business, it could be any number of things, starting a charity, starting so many things that just take these domino steps, but it but you got to get going, you got to get the the ball rolling and and keep reminding yourself you you're you're doing the right thing, you're bringing a product that people will benefit from and keep it going until you finally get it out there and then keep building on it.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

For sure. Absolutely. That's exactly you know, there's a lot of similarities, similarities between uh you starting your podcast and and getting the right in your book. Uh, I've written several books and I have you know currently eight podcasts, so it's uh you're not joking. It really is very similar to get going with them. But um, I'll tell you what, I gotta be honest, podcasting is a little easier than going on.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Yeah, you can finally I could I can understand you also don't have to always bring it to the editor being like, hey, sorry. Well, you obviously still have to do some editing with this, but you you like, hey, sorry, this isn't very good, but I really need you to clean it up for me, please.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

At no point do we go to an editor and go, tell me everything's wrong, yeah, with my podcast.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Yeah, hopefully we've done a little better than that.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Oh, and it's uh and I've done editing for a long time. I've been an editor for a while. And I mean, there's nothing worse than when you're the author and you're literally handing it to somebody going, please tell me how horrible I am right at this moment. I can't wait to hear this. So it does take a little temerity.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Just to touch on the editor thing, I was getting so fed up with my own mistakes that I had to get it out of my hands. I had reread this thing in silence because again, it not a ton of people knew, and I was still nervous to bring it to somebody else. I was on like draft number 10 of my own editing, and I was like, there were still mistakes everyone. Like, I the words are starting to blend together. I'm starting to dislike this my own book. I was like, I need it into somebody else's hands and and from a different viewpoint and an understanding, it was actually really it helped a ton, like whether he knew it or not. But when he was telling me he's like, Oh, yeah, like this is because this guy had dabbled in sales too, and actually, as he's somewhat of a reference in the book, too, because he's a a really good uh speaker and talker, and I actually um did some sales and he left it because he had a really, really bad experience with it. And I know he could have been a really good sales. Now he's doing just fine in his own career, and that's that's great. But hearing him say, like, oh yeah, that's true, that's that's good at like just as he went around like along, he's like, Yep, that's actually really good. It really just helped bring that self-esteem back up. That you know, things had started to my my wires were crossing a bit when I was reading my own book for the 10th time, and actually getting a fresh set of eyes and hearing that um really actually rejuvenated me for that next push of the the book.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

That's great, that's awesome. You know, one thing I haven't heard you mention too much of is uh social media. Are you not utilizing that to sell the book, or are you and it's like a given, or what's your experience with that?

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Yeah, I have it. Uh I work on it not as much as. I should. It's another one of those things that um I need to put more time in. And I like I said, I'll be the first to admit that I don't do it as as well as other people do. Um, I know one of the other things that I I love seeing all the time, and I just but when you get you see somebody clip uh when they're on a podcast or something like that, and it's like a 15-second clip, and it's it's got the close caption on it and all that on the page. I've done that a couple of times. I should do it more. So I have it, I have the website, and it just kind of sometimes it's the it's the part of me that I have to remind myself it's it's part of the process because I'm just just not a social media person, but here we and I have like and my social media isn't specific to me as the author, it's it's for the book itself, so it's a little bit different. Um, but yeah, it's something I gotta work on. I'm not I'll be the first to admit it.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

All right, I you know I appreciate you being honest. Um, I mean, a sales guy who's not all over safe social media, I'm not sure how to take it.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

I know, I know. It's hey, we all have our weaknesses, right? It's good to recognize them and grow and build it is, brother.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

It really is. I I love I love that's the way you're so honest about all this.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

It's cool to to the point where, like, if you think you know everything in sales, you're wrong. Right. It would take you 10 lifetimes to learn everything and consume all the information on how to be a better salesperson. So uh if you sit there and think, okay, well, I've learned everything and I just got to go out, and it's like, no, you're gonna you're gonna learn something, you're gonna be humbled daily, and you're gonna learn something daily, and you're gonna be a better salesperson when you wake up the next morning if you take it um the right way and you learn from it and and grow. So I'm I'm doing that every day too. So yeah, you're definitely pointing out some of the weaknesses I have and need to work on.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Amen, man. That's you know, and sales is so funny because even if you thought you did know everything, sales changes, you know, oh yeah, landscape changes with it, right? You got to change with it. Uh, so yeah, I I hear you loud and clear, man. Well, congratulations on publishing the book. I think it's absolutely fantastic. Um, last uh, I mean, I do have a couple questions for you, but the last thing I'm gonna ask you about like speculation is that a book is also a great way to get into public speaking, and you're a good speaker, man. I mean, honestly, you you deliver your points, you know, you got a nice voice, you know, you look good. I mean, you'd be good on a stage. Have you thought about doing the public speaking thing at all?

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Uh, I haven't looked into that avenue of it. I do appreciate that. It uh it gives me some confidence to to go out there and grow um from a platform standpoint. Um, it's more so balancing out the what I would do with it or or how. Um, but it it's funny that you mentioned that because I I did think about doing my own Audible for the book. And I I tackled that because I hadn't done it before, and I wasn't confident enough to do it. It's funny you meant now. I'm able to tell myself, well, I don't have a studio and I'd have to rent something out, and it's easier just to find somebody that's already got everything set up and sure pay them because it ended up being cheaper, yeah, that way. And and the guy did a terrific job, but again, it's one of those things where you just gotta. I'm sure if I did another one, I would probably do it myself. Because then the the uh when you're talking about the points in the book, like you almost revert back to when they were happening to you if it was a story, and it it's almost like somebody's wrote written their own music when they sing it, it comes out a little bit more. I think that same thing happens when I listen to people who because I'm listening to books all the time, and you can tell the ones that that read their own books and their their voice tone changes, and because they're they're back to that story happening, right? So I do uh appreciate that. And is I'm certainly not shy about speaking in public and doing all that, but on what platform, I'm not sure yet.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Awesome, awesome, good for you, man. Um, so you mentioned you know, the next time is there a sequel in in the thought process? What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Not yet. Um, not yet. The training program has kind of taken more focus on that because that is something that I am quietly working on on the side that we talked about. So that actually, when I was thinking about a possible second book, uh, that actually kind of overtook and was it was I didn't it chose itself in a sense that that's what I kept reverting back to. And I was like, okay, maybe I'll focus some attention on this and and started writing ideas down. I've actually been been rolling on it pretty good. It would just be more so how do I bring that to the market uh as well while still balancing what I'm doing because I still need bills to be paid and everything else. And I really do enjoy what I do for work at the same time. So that's why the balance is fun. It doesn't feel like work um when I'm doing these side projects.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, I mean, uh, you know, folks, this guy's going places, he's got these things going on, and he's like, Oh, you know, over here in the background. No, this is awesome. I love what you have going. I love that you're building off of this. Um, so all right. Um, I do have one last question for you. Before I hit that though, tell everybody hey, where they can find you, how they can find the book. Um, go for it.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

Um, well, they the best thing would be on Amazon. As I said, it comes in in all platforms. I'll show it one more time there. Um, again, Audible, Kindle, Paperback, um, or on the website, pitching salesconsulting.com. Um, is there's a bunch of resources on there or on Instagram at pitching sales. And it's it's funny because something just popped up that in my head when we were talking about the editing stuff, which I think for somebody who's written a bunch of books would appreciate, is and I'm actually really happy with the timing, is that I released the book November of 2022, and in December was the first time there was public exposure to chat GPT. And I kind of want to know what your thoughts are on the idea of like I look back at that struggle that I had with the editing, and I think that's a callus that is earned for somebody that's put out a book that was their thoughts and they're growth, they grew it and they it's like watering a plant. Like, you got to do all the steps. The you gotta feed it, water it, sunlight for it to grow into what it becomes. And the idea, and even if I wrote a sequel, I wouldn't change how I went about this because I think it brought a lot more um life to the book and a lot more honesty and depth from my own personal experiences on it. But the concept of just throwing that into a program and having it edited out and changing it the way it probably would have. Um, I was wondering where your thoughts are on that, because it literally came out two weeks after I released the book. And my first thought was, oh my god, I just spent hundreds of hours on my own and with my friend and with the editor editing this and changing and over every word and where it was in place. And then this program comes out two weeks later that could have done it for me. And I thought, first thing was like, Oh my god, I could have saved so much time. Then I thought, no, I for something like this, I want it to be my own, and I can say for certain that every single word in here is my own and and put in the way that I wanted it and thought I could bring the information the best possible way. So I was wondering what your thoughts were as somebody's written written multiple ones on that.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

I appreciate you asking. The um, you know, I hate chat GPT. Everybody knows who listens to the podcast. Uh, I have, like I said, I have several and uh I am talking about it a lot. But um the I agree with you, you earned everything that you got there. And the problem right now is just a slippery slope. And um, you know, when you use chat GPT to just simply edit for like grammar, just like we used to use, you know, the word program, and you would hit the edit function, right? Yeah, the the problem is chat doesn't just do that, it also offers 15 other suggestions, and then you take them, and now it's changed. Yeah, and now somebody else wrote the book, you know, in a lot of ways. So when an editor says, Hey, let's change this, let's do this, they're not necessarily giving you all the new words, they're saying, let's change this and you work it out and you get it done.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Um, with chat, they do it for you and hand it back to you. And it's gotten to the point now where Amazon is like saying, Hey, we're gonna review your book when you put it up here. And if we see that there's you know AI in this, then it gets classified as an AI book, right? Or you know, we don't sense that, and then you know, you can keep it as an authentic book, and the sales are starting to show. People want to read the authentic books, you know. So that's the other issue is that if you let the AI do a little too much, it it can reclassify your whole book now, because Amazon's not playing that game. So, as painful as it is, I always recommend just doing it the old-fashioned way, you know, because then you know you're gonna stay on the authentic side of the sales, you know, yeah, uh Amazon sales too. Um, and Amazon's still an incredibly power, like if not the biggest, one of the biggest search engines in the world. Yeah, and you want to be on the right side of that, you don't want them to be, you know, shadow banning you.

SPEAKER_00 53:45

Yeah, and I'd hate to it kind of goes back to what we talked about. Um, is when somebody comes up to you and be like, Oh, you wrote a book. I don't want my answer to be kind of, I want it to be yes, right. I did, you know, and I can yes, and I can say that with uh pride uh when I get asked that. So I was just wondering because that that came just as I was doing it, and again, I can understand why people get drawn to wanting to do it, but I really think it takes that authenticity authenticity out of it. And like I said, if you kind of have that that internal um mindset, like it might pick away at you if you realize you took a shortcut instead of putting a little bit extra work to make it your own. Yeah, I know that's what it would do to me. So um, you know, but I understand it, and I know we're you're probably running a little late here too, but um, but like because that's something that's getting introduced into sales as well, and and there's a time and a place for it because there's a lot of which people don't know if there are a lot of monotonous tasks to do in sales behind the scenes of just going out and selling and talking to customers and pitching your products and demoing them and all that. There's behind-the-scenes stuff, writing email templates, doing all these things where AI um is helping and you're getting information back quickly, like a search engine, which you would be doing anyway. So it but the last thing you want to do is have AI sell something for you because you couldn't figure it out or didn't want to put the extra time in, and you you know, I just it's almost a very similar grappling. Um, because some people use it really effectively, some people don't use it at all. And I think there's a middle ground um with anything as long as you don't let it think for you, let it help you. Um, let it take some monotonous writing email templates, like I'm just responding. I just want to make sure it's professional and the grammar is proper, right? Right. I don't just tell it to write it though. What I I take what I wrote, I put in there, and I say, Can you just spruce this up a bit for me? But this is what I'm trying to say. Okay, let's set this meeting up for that time, like little things like that. So there is a balance, but uh, when it comes to writing books, as I said, I didn't even wasn't even aware that Amazon would classify things as an AI book. I love to hear that though. That's um because there is there is something too happening.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

I'll lush there for a minute. Are you back?

SPEAKER_00 56:24

No, so yeah, I was just rambling on a little bit, so it's okay. No, no, I gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

You said there there's something to that, you know, was the last thing I got. So and it just kind of froze for a sec. But hey, you know, it doesn't like us talking about AI, probably.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

Yeah, good, good.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

We've got AI going on in the Zoom meeting, and they're like, hey, enough of this fashion AI stuff. But uh no, I I listen, I appreciate your your viewpoint, I really do. Uh especially being a newer author, you know, and someone who's written his first book. I love that that's your aspect of it. You know, if more people think that way, then maybe there's hope for the you know human race after all. We'll we'll keep it going. That's right. All right. Um, my my last question, uh and I ask this of everybody. You are a published author, brother. So congratulations on that again. Uh I'll never stop saying that to you because I just think it's incredible when you hit that. Thank you so much. Um, what is the best piece of advice that you can give? We have a ton of people out there who are aspiring authors, um, and people who are getting ready to write a second book and just want to do it differently. You know, what what is the best piece of advice that you can give to authors out there or aspiring authors who are not quite where you are in the process yet?

SPEAKER_00 57:34

Yeah, there's so many different spots you could go with that that answer. Um I think that the the kind of the shining light for what allowed me to complete it. So especially if you're looking at somebody who's maybe thinking of the idea, and like I said, it could be a book, a podcast, a charity, um, uh a business, whatever it may be. If you believe um that what you are bringing to the public is worth bringing, and you believe that you can either help somebody, you can take away somebody's pain point with a business, you have a creativity that you haven't seen out there that you want to bring. If you believe in that, use that as your your push whenever because you're no matter what project you are taking on, you are going to have self-doubt. If if you introduce me to somebody who did something incredible that never once had self-doubt, I'll be astonished because I can assure you that 99.9% of people had self-doubt, and not just once, it comes in waves sometimes. And sometimes when you're you're about to release something, you're about to maybe tell somebody about it, you're lying in bed staring at the ceiling, wondering if it's good enough or worth it, or any of these things. If you have the right reasons why you're doing it and the belief that what you're bringing is uh is worth it to you, then use that to to push you over that hump and get through those those down times. Um, that's what that's what did it for me because there's trust me, there's plenty of times I looked at the clock and it was one o'clock in the morning, and I thought, what the heck am I doing here? Typing on this computer in my room with something I don't even know if I'm gonna bring out. And it's like, no, this is good, this is worth it. You can bring value to somebody who's gonna read this down the road, whether it be you know in a year or five years from now. So that's what I use to get through it. I believe that um other people out there can can use that as well to push push forward and and complete it because that feeling when it is done, like we talked about, when that book finally shows up in your mailbox and you're just like, wow, I did it. Like that is worth getting through those downtimes.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

Love that answer. I really do. Great, great advice, and that's a great sales answer, right there, too. Like in any field, that's just great advice, whatever it is you're doing. So uh thank you for bringing that today, man. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. All right, folks. Uh 15-year sales professional, um, author of Pitching Sales, a complete guide to becoming a sales professional. Brian Charlotte Brian, brothers, thank you for everything. I mean, all the honesty, the authenticity, everything you brought today. It was absolutely wonderful having you here. And I just really appreciate you and uh congrats again on the book, man. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

Thank you very much, Ray. I I can talk about this stuff for hours. I love the topics, and I really appreciate you having me on and and bringing such a great platform um to people to be able to listen to this. And because I, you know, there are people out there, and and hopefully um, we've not only helped somebody with this one, but I'm sure with all your other podcasts, you've helped a ton of people. So you're doing a really good thing, and uh, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

Thanks for that, man. I appreciate it, folks. Uh, that's been another absolutely awesome episode of the right path podcast, where uh the truth still matters and words still have power. Uh, this is the place, folks, where authors who are on here they know that every step, uh, every page is another step towards finding their version of their right path. Until next time.