Ending Homelessness by Empowering Women with Dr. Dionne Payne

Join Dr. Dionne Payne, founder of Women for Homes, as she shares her mission to inspire one million women to each invest $5,000 to create affordable, ethical housing by 2030. Discover how property development can combine profit with purpose, foster community, and promote sustainability. Dionne also shares insights on leadership, resilience, and financial empowerment — showing how collective action and aligned values can build not just homes, but lasting impact. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hyvin and with Dr.

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Bibi. Welcome to Hyvin and Viben with Dr. Bibi. Today we have with us Diane Payne. Diane, did I pronounce your name correctly? It's Dion. Dion. Dion. It's Dion Payne. And she does not address herself as Dr. Dion Payne, though she's a PhD. So letting you introduce me to Dion on a grand scale, let me tell you that she is the founder of Women for Homes, a company whose mission is to inspire 1 million women, that's a lot of women, to invest $5,000 to end homelessness by 2030. Dion Payne is the founder of Women for Homes, a company whose mission is to inspire 1 million women to invest $5,000 to end homelessness by 2030. I'm repeating myself, but this statement by itself is huge. So I think it deserves a repetition. And with that, she has also over 10 years in the property industry, has developed affordable housing projects and has facilitated $150 million worth of ethical property developments. She has helped over 40 investors achieve double-digit returns through property. Dion is also the author of a number one best Amazon best-selling book, E T H I C A L, that is ethical, property investing, and regularly writes and speaks on the topic. Dion, welcome to Hyvin and Vibin with Dr. Bibi. How are you doing today? I'm very well, thank you, Dr. Bibi. Yeah, and since I repeated that sentence, I would like to start with that because those are huge numbers. And what is the entire model behind this 1 million women, $5,000, and 2030?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yeah, okay. Well, let's start with the timeline first. I remember in the pandemic talking to a lady who she didn't she was moving out of a property. I think the property had sold, so she had to move out of somewhere that she'd been renting for a long time. And she couldn't find anywhere else that was in her budget. And I spoke to her on the phone because I really wanted to understand what the challenge was that she was having. And she said, look, it's a question of do I pay the rent versus not eating healthily as well as not having the supplements and medicines that I need to manage my chronic illness. Um so that was in the pandemic, that was five years ago, we're now in 2025, and the situation hasn't changed for older women, actually, it's got worse. So the government has you know got this grand plan to build 1.2 million um homes, well-placed homes, and I applaud that. At the same time, I recognize that there aren't the contractors to do that work because building companies are going broke. Um, we've got NIMBYism that's happening. So councils announced that they've got projects that they want to deliver to create more affordable housing, and regular people who don't want those kinds of homes in those in their locations, which will drive down their home prices, they don't want that either. So we're in a bit of a quandary. So the reason for the timeline for me and the reason for getting women involved for me was just really saying we need to understand that these are not isolated issues. The financial empowerment aspect for women is pretty dire, and we can talk a little bit more about that later. Um, and it's that lack of financial empowerment that is causing so many women to be homeless. And I wrote an article recently which said that many women are just one bad week away from homelessness, a sickness, a divorce, um, a job loss. Um, and if yeah, so so that's that's what we're facing, that's what we're looking at. The situation hasn't got better since five years ago, and we the problem has got worse. We really have to get on top of this. So, by making this an everybody solution so that everybody can participate in solving this problem, um that's how we're going to do it. And it doesn't actually have to take a long time once once everybody understands why we're doing it. So, why we're doing it because it is a problem, um, it could be easily anybody that we know, it could even be us, you know, this situ in certain situations. So, like I said, making it an everybody solution and knowing that it's a solution that everybody can be financially empowered by this makes a lot of sense to me. When we talk about the numbers and we break it down, a million women investing five thousand dollars, that's five billion dollars. That money can leverage so much more money as well, and that's why I believe that this is possible.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Whoa, that's a long struggle. I I don't know whether I should call the word the struggle, but I think that's a quite a long battle. Do you do you think that's a battle, Lion?

SPEAKER_01 5:57

It's interesting that you chose those words because in the paradigm that we're in at the moment, it is it is a it is a struggle. When we uh step outside of that paradigm, and I'm reminded about um Buckminster Fuller's words don't rail against the existing system, create a new system that makes the old one obsolete. That's the that's the paradigm shift that I'm living by. Um, and also just looking at how do we make how do we make money joyful and fun. So a lot of what I see and conversations that I have with women around financial empowerment, a lot of there's a lot of money shame, and there's a lot of you know, sort of things that are not spoken. There's a lot of seriousness that is attached to money. Now we could talk about the energetics of money, and and money in itself is just a tool and it's the emotions that we put on top of it. Um and so when we're looking at, or when I look at this problem, I I think, well, why are we making it such a serious thing? Why don't we make it joyful and fun? And how can we actually do that? Well, I believe that we do that by working together, I believe that we do that by collaboration, and I believe that we do that by yeah, just getting really excited about a new system that we created, as a system where women can be financially empowered and do something that's really meaningful for themselves and for others as well.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

So you want one million women, each will invest $5,000 and they will gain a home for themselves.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

No, no. So the model is that women invest into affordable and sustainable housing, um, and they will gain a financial return as a result of doing that. Now, when we talk about the the financial return, we're talking you know, target 10% per annum, um, which in the grand scheme of things is is pretty good and and much more than people are getting just from holding properties themselves and investing in properties themselves. At the moment, with the with the with interest rates where they are, um uh property investors are lucky to be getting four or five percent per annum on their investments.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Agree, agree with you. Most of them are negatively geared as well, because especially with you know, you have to pay the real estate agents and things like that, if you're investing in property, then it definitely pushes the margins towards a negative gearing. Uh so with that, the next question that I have in mind: are you only attracting uh the one million women within Australia, or are you open to international women from across the world joining this movement?

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Oh, I'm so open to women across the world joining this movement. And the reason I say that is because the housing crisis isn't isolated to Australia alone, and there's so much that's happening all over. Now, I will say, and as you know, I am based in Australia, so we're developing the system here and then we'll take it elsewhere. Um, but absolutely, this is a this is a global movement.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

And you have plans for of expansion.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Absolutely, absolutely. I have a vision that um, you know, come 2030, we have all of these little satellite organizations around the world that are saying, yes, we've done it, we've ended homelessness, and we can all come together to celebrate that.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Lovely. I like this this plan of yours where you intend to collaborate with others, other other organizations or you know, other partners across the world, and that is where I think uh is the wonderful place that you are in today. And uh this is amazing. Tell us a little more about when you started in the property in uh industry, that was say 10 years ago or so. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Um I started I was gonna say out of necessity. Um I I my situation was that I'd finished my PhD and and I finished, submitted my thesis, and my daughter at the time, um she was she wasn't born yet, so I was I was about six weeks before my due date, something like that. And um, I decided that I was going to be a stay-at-home mum and I was going to raise a family and then figure out what I wanted to do after that because as much as I loved academia, um I it just wasn't it wasn't going to give me what I needed at that time. So made the decision to stay home, raise two beautiful children, best decision of my life. Um, and when when my son um maybe he was about a year old, my husband came back and he wasn't really enjoying his job at that time. So he came home and said, Look, I've been thinking about other things that we can do. I've seen this property um property seminar, I'd like to go along, it's a couple of hours in the evening. So he went along and then you know, subsequently he signed us up for a property development mentoring program. Um, and um I do remember thinking, gosh, you're a little bit crazy there. I'd I'd always been interested in property, but I it it did feel a little bit out of our reach. Um, but when he came back and said, I've signed up for it, and I figured, well, the the way that we understand how to play this game is to learn how to do it and learn from people that have done it before. So that's what we did. We learnt about it, and being part of that community and part of a property development network, we met other people that um you know that had resources that had the money um but not the time, and we had the time and not the money, so we joined forces and and we did a number of development projects, and and that was when they were small, when they were smaller, they were fun. Um, the challenge that I saw was that to stick with those smaller projects, there was a lot of work, like property development is a lot of work, but the the level of reward wasn't as much. And I remember the first one that we did, and we earned $30,000, and it was, you know, we got $30,000 in one chunk, um, and it was fantastic. And I remember thinking, wow, this is brilliant. Um, but as we did more, I realized that yeah, we were doing a lot of work for this $30,000. Where what if we sort of raise our sites a little bit, look for something a bit bigger, and what could we make? And so when I did that, that was when I found the affordable housing project, and that was a bit of a bit of an oxymoron because we were able to um I remember doing the feasibility and and showing that we could make a lot more money, even with other other joint venture partners, but we could make a lot more money just from doing a big bigger project, and it was affordable housing. So I I found that really interesting, and and it wasn't it wasn't necessarily a straight line either. There were there were definitely some challenges, it was a bigger project, but it was pretty much the same amount of work as we were doing for the smaller project. So um that's that's how we got into affordable housing. And I remember putting all of the pieces together and thinking, okay, well, yeah, we've got the land, we've got higher density because of the zoning. So the higher density came because it was in a commercial, like a shopping centre was across the road, so it was like a business zone, and so we could do affordable housing there. We were able to get 14 homes on one block, whereas if there hadn't been that, if it hadn't been in the right zone, we might only have got nine, and then the numbers wouldn't have worked. We had to work with a community housing provider, and so I remember the conversations with with um with the guy, the sort of CEO that was there, and and I was thinking, you know, how are we going to make this work? And he walked me through the process and gave me some really great advice, and it worked for them. They gave us a really great deal in terms of them taking a head lease over three of the properties, which meant that um investors because of the deal that they gave us, um, and because they were able to attract government grants for the the subsidy part that we needed to provide, um, it just meant that they could provide social and affordable housing. And the investor that purchased that property, um, they basically got a regular got a regular rent. So even though the rent was discounted by 25%, they were still better off overall because of how the CHP structured it. So I got to see that property development is very creative. I got to see that it can be used to create affordable housing, and I got to see most importantly that you can make money and create affordable housing and create something that's really beautiful and dignified. So, you know, when we think of affordable housing, often people think of ghettos, and I think that's why there's a lot of antagonism and a lot of nimbyism about you know, affordable housing, don't want it anywhere near me because then we could have druggies and you know, all sorts of people, all sorts of undesirables. But actually, I was able to prove in that that we can have affordable housing that's beautiful, that is an asset to the community and not uh not to the detriment of the community, but it does take a lot of consideration, a lot of um education. I remember when we first started marketing these, and and a lot of people um would come through and say, Oh no, I couldn't live there because it's affordable housing. Again, that that negative perception. So there was a lot of educating around that, and and what was beautiful was that we started the construction works in the September, and then by the December, all of them had sold, and we were able to sell those properties for an average of 350,000 in an area where the median house price was 600,000. So I I always say it wasn't an apples for apples comparison because we were talking about 60 square meter one-bedroom homes versus 200,000, 250 square meter three and four bedroom homes. So it wasn't apples for apples, but it met the need of members of the community in that point. And I I couldn't have done it because um that just wasn't my path. But in hindsight, if I if I was doing it again now and I wanted to go down the development route, I would definitely line up a number of properties where I could do that kind of development again because one of the things that we see is that we're just not getting that diversity in housing. We're also seeing that the number of single people or single person households is growing. So and and and you know, we're also seeing that as as baby boomers are retiring and they're wanting to downsize, they're wanting to stay in the area that they've lived in for all this time, but there's nothing there for them to go to. So we have a housing crisis, but it's not just a supply crisis, it's a lack of movement crisis because people can't move to the houses that are the right size for them. So that that development, that affordable housing development really opened my eyes to the possibilities to how you can create affordable housing, how you can create right size housing. And also, it sparked an interest in me as to how you can create sustainable housing. So we're not kicking the can down the road in terms of the climate emergency that we're facing, we're actually tackling it head on and how we can do that in a way that isn't going to break the bank or isn't just gonna be for people that can afford it, we can make it again an everybody solution. So that project, that affordable housing project, was really pivotal. Um, it did almost break me. Um we we did have a lot of challenges. It was it was definitely uh, you know, sort of going from smaller projects to a larger project um was was quite a step um and and a big um a very big learning curve as a result. Um but the lessons and learnings that I got from that are definitely the reason that I'm where I am today and so important.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

There are whole lot of things that you mentioned, which some of them you you have explained, you know, especially the what is uh affordable housing. You have, you know, you you addressed that, and of course that was a question in my head to ask you next. And you you did speak about that and you spoke about the one question that I have is what does ethical property development mean?

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Oh, that part's easy. So, um well, there's there's two parts to that to answer that question. Um, the first part is ethical property investing or ethical property development is developing homes in a way that helps people and planet to thrive. It puts people and planet at the heart of the decision-making process, at the heart of the development and design process. It's completely the opposite to um the sort of extractive property development that we're seeing, which is just pump and you know, build masses amounts of homes and wake up the price, and and people can barely afford it, and people are getting in by the skin of their teeth and and are stressed to the max as a result. So ethical property investing is the opposite of that. Um I wrote the book Ethical Property Investing, which you referred to in the introduction, so thank you for that. Um, I've actually got a copy of it here, I'll show you. So, ethical property investing, that's the book. It is, I can see that it's the wrong way around in the image, but um it is available on Amazon. Um and when I looked at so uh about five years ago, I started my company, High Impact Property Investments, which is a sister company to Women for Homes. Um, and when I started that company, I really wanted to break down all of the things that I saw in my development career and how I could make good choices when it came to finding developers to support with raising funds for them. Um so I broke it down and created the um acronym Ethical, which stands for experience track record, and that's the track record of the developer. Um, high impact, so that's creating affordable, sustainable, and inclusive homes. Investment risk, which is looking at the risk that is inherent in property development and making sure that the developer has seen the ways to overcome those risks. Collaboration partners, because they really make or break a project. So there's so many moving parts when it comes to property development. So making sure that the developer has a really great team working with him, whether that's architects, town planners, engineers, accountants, etc., that's really important. Aligned values is the A, and that's important too, because when you work with people and organizations and there's not that values alignment, things really do fall apart. And L is for legacy and just making sure that what we build today lasts for eons and you know in the future and also enhances the community around it as well. So it's it's legacy for ourselves and and and you know, sort of the future generations, legacy for the community and and legacy for the world at large. So that's that's my breakdown of ethical. The other thing that I say about that is that. When all of those elements, I've just found that when all of those elements are in a project, it really does maximize the chances of success, it really does maximize the impact and the outcomes as a result of that project.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Right. So the one question that does come up is when you're talking about sustainable projects and housing projects, what is, and you said that you know it could cost say around 350,000 to build a one-bedroom. Um how is it different from another developer who has built a one-bedroom apartment?

SPEAKER_01 22:49

From the sustainable aspect. Okay, well, in in that particular project, um the sustainability piece wasn't something I paid a lot of attention to. Um one thing that the builder did do was to use on the as the for the cladding and for the fencing and for the decking, he used a product which was a plastic a recycled plastic mixed with rice husks and other um other sort of biological matter, um, inert biological matter. Um and so that that was the the nod to sustainability that we had in that project. It wasn't a lot to be fair, and it wasn't it wasn't directed from me, it actually came from the builder, which I was very pleasantly surprised about. Um, but it did start a yeah, it did really pique my interest. And I've always been interested in sustainability, but I just wasn't sure how to how to do that as a developer. Um, one of the things that I did do um many years ago was to publish a magazine about hemp. Um, so hemp, the cannabis sativa plant, the non-psychoactive version of the plant. Um, and I started writing a magazine about it because there's so much, there's so much you can do with it. Like you, you know, you can build homes with it, you can uh uh create clothes, you um make clothes from it, you can hemp itself is amazing in that it sequesters carbon when it's growing and it locks up carbon when it's being used in building. Um, it also is a um uh it mops up pollution, and and so there's there's lots about hemp that is just really fantastic. And I I learnt about it, I knew nothing about it. I learnt about it, and I was like, everybody needs to know about this. Um and as part of that, I ended up doing a hemp building course, um, which was fantastic. I got hands-on experiences, you know, how to you know get the the hemp herd and mix it up with the binder and tamp it down in the shuttering and actually build a wall, and got to see that it was fireproof for a certain period of time. So that was a lot of fun, and that was 10 years ago. But when I was developing, I really wanted to be incorporating something like that into my developments, but it was just prohibitively expensive. What's really cool, and it's really interesting that we're having this conversation now, is that um one of the projects that I'm working on with a with another developer is co-living homes for older women. Um and what I'm talking about there is um homes that are beautiful, affordable, and dignified, where there's a mix of of private space, so there's rooms with ensuite bathrooms, a small kitchenette, a courtyard, and then there's shared space, so the the main living room, dining room, kitchen, and an outside space as well. So it's really about bringing together community, and I'm very excited about it. Um I met with the developer um a while back and got to see some of the finished product, and I was really happy with it. Um, but in terms of sustainability, there was um, you know, that they're gonna be using solar panels, they're gonna be using rainwater tanks, um, but I did sort of walk away thinking, oh gosh, we we could do so much better. What can we do? What can we do that's actually going to be cost effective? Um, a couple of weeks ago I was reminded about a colleague of mine that I'd done that hemp um building course with um all that time ago, and we actually managed to meet up yesterday. Um, and so I've got really excited again about the the possibility of using hemp in as a building material as the walls, um, that my colleague Johan he's um developed hemp blocks which fit together, they just swap together really well, um, and the basically the processes that so that anybody with a with a modicum of strength can actually and and and skill in terms of laying out and and making sure everything's square, um, but anybody with with that skill or be supervised can actually build the walls of their house as well. Um, so I'm super excited about where we're going to go with that. Like there's nothing in stone yet, or in head blocks yet, uh as a joke. Um, but um, yeah, I'm just very excited about what we can create and and making sure that we can make the numbers work because at the end of the day, and the tagline of my book is um how busy professionals can achieve double-digit returns from affordable and sustainable homes, we need to be able to create that financial sustainability for investors so that they can do it again and again and again rather than ending up in that negative gearing trap, which just means that they're limited to one home and or two homes. Um, and and that doesn't that's not really helping us to move forward. So if you can make it financially sustainable and we can make the numbers work, which they do definitely on the on the traditional um uh uh pro-living homes, we just need to make sure that it can work on these hemp built ones as well, and and that's my that's my goal. So that's that's my project that I'm working on um till the end of this year to make sure that we can we can actually incorporate hemp.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Right. I was also reading about coconut, coconut fiber, and I was also reading about glass, you know, recycling glass bottles and recycling plastic containers, uh which are used. Uh so all these all these materials, so recycling quite a lot of materials, I think, helps to build sustainable homes. That's uh that is what I uh I have been you know able to gather just before so that I could understand your uh you know your language. I did do a little bit of study and this is what I understood. So you were telling about the co-living for older women project that you are working with now. So, how many women will be able to live there? And where is it located and all that?

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yeah, okay. So, right now the the states of Victoria, South Australia, and Queensland allow it it all comes under, and it might it's the the terminology is different in different states, but um, rooming house um uh living. So those three states allow for that to happen. New South Wales does as well, but because the requirements are a lot more stringent and therefore it's more expensive, doing co-living homes in New South Wales, you actually have to be building a lot of rooms to make it financially sustainable. Um, but in in Victoria, you can go up to nine rooms. In Queensland and South Australia, you can definitely go up to five, you may be able to go up to more. So those are the areas, those are the locations that we're looking at. Um, definitely looking at locations where there is lots of facilities already. So it's not building out in the sticks where nobody's living, it's definitely building where there's established homes, established suburbs, where it's within walking distance or or public transport to hospitals, schools, that kind of thing. So just making sure that um yeah, there's there's plenty of opportunity for people to live and work and play in the areas that they're living, but just offering uh a cheaper way of doing things. Now I I will take that um or I'll I will sort of amend what I'm saying there. We are talking about um homes for older women, women 50 plus, who may still be working. So these things still um the the importance of being close to facilities still applies. When I think about women, um, you know, sort of as they get older, I'm very concerned about creating spaces where women can age in place until they're at a point where they need something that may be a bit more um high needs or high care, and then there's somewhere for them to go um after that. But certainly in this that in this instance, we're looking at properties where the the length of the tenancy can be a long time, so it's not that somebody moves in somewhere and they've got to be out in six months because that creates a lot of anxiety, so it's really about creating that security tenure, which is really important.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

And for and by when will this uh this this uh this project get ready for for people to occupy there?

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Well, they take about six to nine, six months to build, um and another three months to get occupation certificates and and have people moving in. So, yeah, so basically nine months from woe to go to have somebody actually living in those homes. Um, and from my perspective, in terms of the work that I'm doing, we're pretty much ready to go right now with the traditional way of doing things. I am also investigating that we're doing it using the hemp locks as well, um, which may take a little bit more time. So we might not do anything until early next year.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

So by end of next year, when we if we reconnect, then we and you will definitely be able to tell me, you know, how many people have got their new homes built there. Absolutely. So, Dion, with that, uh the fact that you have been able to envision something like this, what are your guiding principles? What is your mantra? No.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Oh, look, um a couple of things. Um I wasn't expecting this question, but yeah, look, a couple of things. One is that each morning um I wake up and I I will preface this by saying I I do not see myself as a religious person, um, but I do have a relationship with I call it God, some people might call it the universe, some people might call it spirit, it doesn't matter, but that all ever-present thing that makes our hearts beat and you know our eyes work and all of that. Um so each morning that I wake up, I just ask the question, how can I be of service? How can I be best of service today? Um, and that's my guiding principle. Um it hasn't always been that case. Um, I I spent a lot of time sort of struggling through life and battling with life and wondering why nothing was working. Um but recently, um, yeah, like what I've what I've really felt is that there's a there's a natural order to life, and if we go with that, if I go with that flow, life is just so much more fun. So that's my guiding principle.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Yeah. Totally agree with you though. But that life can be so much fun if we just use our, you know, our principles and be authentic with that. So uh think of yourself when you were a little girl. And now, if you look at yourself, what are those aspects of that little girl, little Dion, that you still carry with you? Oh I love these questions.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Um outrageous optimism would be one of those questions, or one of the one of those attributes. Um a belief that the world is good, and I know that there's some not great things that are happening in the world, um, but overall I tend to look for the beauty in life rather than focus on the sucky stuff. And it's not that I don't have empathy for people that are going through difficult times, because I really do, um, but I also recognize that we've all come into this life with something that we that we have to overcome. And for some people it's you know around money and and resolving their relationships with money. For some people, it's about I don't know, resolving their their level of self-worth and and sort of really coming to terms with who they are, and but you know, lots of different things. We're all we're all part like we're all the same, but we're all very unique as well. So um yeah, I'd I'd I just I can be empathetic um for people and and even people that do things that I do not prefer, I just tend to think, well, okay, they're they're having to go through their journey as well. And you know, I as I'm going through my journey, you know, I can just do the best that I can, and hopefully that inspires other people to do the best that they can as well. And I know that the media tends to focus on the negative because that's what sells papers, and I like I said, I tend to focus on the beauty and the good because I know that I feel better that way, and I'm way more effective in what I'm doing as well.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Yeah, I totally agree. I can't take I can't take uh the negative and if it happens for too long, I think I fall asleep. I just decide to fall asleep and I wake up and it's a better day. So with that, I really like that. Let me ask you uh something uh something about one of your experiences where you actually realized that hey, you know, I have grown from this or I have learned beyond something from and I have the strength to lead others. Any any any one cornerstone, or even if you want to share more than one, you know, one cornerstone experience.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yeah, look, that that affordable housing project that I spoke of, the 14 one-bed townhouses, um, I I alluded to it, but I didn't go into big detail. Um, after I finished that project, it was probably the darkest period of my life. Um, because it even though we completed the project, um the it was so stressful. I realized that my values weren't aligned with my joint venture partner, and um you never really well I knew that, I knew that going into the project, um, but I really got to experience it once things were not going so well. The builder went broke, um, and it was a really tricky relationship between the builder and the joint venture partner. Um, so I walked away from that project just feeling really crushed, and um yeah, I was I was in quite a dark place for some time. And I, you know, going going to those dark places, I'd I'd never really, never really had that, but going to that really dark place, I do remember thinking, how am I gonna get through this? I don't even know how I'm gonna get through this, and you know, what are my options for checking out? Um, and each time I was just I'd just come back to that's that's not the checking out is not the right step for me to take at this moment. Um I I don't know how this is gonna play out, but I just have to keep going. Yeah, it it oh man, it was sucked. It was so hard. And now I can look back on that time and just go, oh thank goodness, I just there was something inside me that just said just keep going. It was just like a tiny, tiny voice, um, but you know, like knowing or or not yes, knowing, but not always feeling that way, that there would be lights at the end of the tunnel and I would be able to make it through. And it's been a long time, and I I feel like yeah, I feel like I'm I'm I'm definitely out of the tunnel, like you know, definitely out of that now, um, and can see all of the lessons and all of the benefits for it. Um, but it was it was just a a really hard time, and it yeah, I I I I don't know if everybody has to have one of those times where they, you know, they're pretty much down on the knees and just like, oh something, somebody help me because I don't see how I'm gonna make my way through this. But um, yeah, I definitely had that time. Um, I am through that time now, and I can look back on it and just have a lot of compassion for myself and a lot of gratitude for myself that I I did actually make it through.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Fantastic. And I'm glad you were able to make it through. Seeing yourself, or maybe you know, envisioning yourself, say 10 years from today, from now, what do you think will be that impact that you're going to leave on your industry, on your team, on the wider world, your family also?

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Okay, um, two things. I I do very firmly believe that we can end homelessness. Um, and so that is part of my goal, like it really is a goal. It makes no sense to me that we have people that are homeless through no real force of their own just because of a system that didn't work for them, and that just does not make sense to me. So it really is a driving force to create something that solves that problem. Um, and I recognize that you know it's not it's not it's not something that I can solve by myself, it's definitely something that we can create a framework for um and that other people can be solving in their own way, in in their locations, and and you know, because every every location has its own nuance, so something might not fit here that works over here. Um so it needs local activators to run with it and go, okay, well, here's a framework, this is how we tweak it to make it work for ourselves. So I do really believe that we can end homelessness, and I believe that in 10 years' time I'll just be looking at another challenge that we can resolve as well. Um, ultimately, the things that are really important to me are equality and freedom. Um, and um, you know, as somebody that grew up in the UK from parents of Jamaican descent, and as somebody that experienced racism, I just think like equality is just so important to me. Um, and and I can see so many different levels of inequality, um, whether it be through racism or or housing or poverty or whatever, and it's like, oh, we just got to get this sorted out, and and we've just got to create better because we can do better. And I again that's that like looking at the beauty. Humans are awesome, humans combined for a great purpose are wonderful, and I just think that we need to sort our shit out and just get on with it, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Totally agree with you on sorting the shit out. I definitely agree on that. Uh so it hasn't been easy for you, it has not been the a cakewalk, and at the same time, what you have lived it, gone through it, worn it. What keeps you going? What is it that sustains you? Do you practice anything?

SPEAKER_01 43:01

I meditate. Um yeah, I meditate, and and that's a really that's a daily practice, and I get a lot of strength from that, I get a lot of clarity from that. So that's been really great. Um and I don't know, I just I I I said the term before, outrageous optimism. I was born with it. I just, you know, like even even my friend says to me that that's my my most endearing quality that I can look at the positives even in a really um crappy situation. So um yeah, I that's that's that's what I do.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

That's who I am, I guess. Great, fantastic. So you meditate. So from one meditation practitioner to another, what how long can you meditate for? Like I can meditate for and I can like shut my eyes and There won't be anything around me for I don't know, mostly when I when I I'm not I'm saying wake up is the word that's coming to my head, but you know, when I really you know come about again, it'll be around 30, 40 minutes or 45 minutes. What is it for you?

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Yeah, most most of the time it's about 20 minutes. Um, but I know that there have been times where the time's just flown on and and I haven't noticed, I've just been enjoying that practice, or yeah, or yeah, or you know, really tuning into my intuition and listening for the answers. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Yeah, great. And do you have any particular practice that you do? Like I I do vipassana and uh I do a lot of breathing techniques too. What what do you do?

SPEAKER_01 44:53

I do a technique where I I just go through and cleanse everything. So it's like a a white light that just cleanses um my environment and the environment around me and uh to the to the whole world. Um and and yeah, and I use it like if I've got a sticky problem at work, or um I want my day to go smoothly, then I'll I'll just go through and and cleanse the day and and just um yeah, kind of visualize everything going on.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Yeah, so it's a visualizer. I was thinking that you you visualize, so that's your thing.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

How would you like our audience or and our listeners to connect with you?

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Oh well, a couple of places. Um I have the website Women for Homes, which is um women number fourhomes.com. Yep, womenforhomes.com. Um, and also I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So if anybody would like to have a conversation with me, uh contact me on LinkedIn and it's under Dion Pain, D-I-O-D-N-E-P-A-Y-N.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

And uh how do how do investors get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Oh, cool. Um I either way, so either Women for Homes and the website or um or through um LinkedIn. LinkedIn might be easier if somebody sends me a direct message.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

All right, great. So any any women out there who's willing to invest or anyone, any investors out there, this is what you do to get in touch with Dan. And I think this is one project that uh you can one can invest in with a clear conscience, knowing that you're really doing something good for the world and for the people around you. Um, I think with that we can end today's interview. I could keep talking to you, Dion Dion, because there's so much more that you know that it I'm curious to know so much more about you. But I think I'll end it here today. And we had a lovely time, and thank you for sharing all your insights and experiences. Uh, I hope it in it will empower our my audience and my listeners, and thank you for all your wisdom. Thank you. Thank you, Dion.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Thank you. I'd I've we have gone places in this conversation that I've never gone before. So I'm really I'm really delighted and surprised and grateful. So thank you. It's been a wonderful conversation.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

Same here, absolutely same here. Well, I really enjoyed uh you know talking to you. Thank you. Thank you.