Why 70% Of Disabled Talent Is Being Left Out ft. Joyce Bender

What if the thing that nearly killed you became the catalyst for changing thousands of lives? In this powerful episode, Richard is joined by Joyce Bender, founder of Bender Consulting Services and the Bender Leadership Academy, whose personal experience of epilepsy and a near-fatal seizure led her to transform how corporate America employs people with disabilities. Joyce pulls no punches: hiring people with disabilities is not charity — it is a smart business investment, and the data backs it up.

From winning the President's Award at the White House to placing 200 people per year with the National Security Agency, Joyce has spent three decades dismantling the stigma, fear, and ignorance that keep 70 percent of disabled people out of the workforce. She shares the story of her angel at the movie theatre, why people with epilepsy have firepower, and what it truly means when someone arrives at work on a stretcher rather than miss a single day.

Key Takeaways

Something bad can happen to you — what defines you is what you make of it. 

Hiring people with disabilities is a business investment, not an act of charity, with exceptional retention and engagement. 

Stigma, fear, and ignorance are the primary barriers keeping disabled talent out of the workforce. 

Education changes everything — the iDisability software platform was built to tackle workplace stigma at scale. 

People with disabilities who have been excluded value work in a way that consistently outperforms expectations.

Episode Highlights

Joyce's misdiagnosed seizures leading to a fractured skull, brain haemorrhage, and coma at a movie theatre in 1985. 

The mysterious doctor who appeared out of nowhere, saved her life, and was never identified. 

How she pivoted from IT executive search to launching Bender Consulting Services in 1995. 

Placing 200 people per year with disabilities at the National Security Agency in STEM roles. 

The employee who called an Uber to hospital after being hit by a cab — and was back at work the next day. 

The iDisability software platform and the Slaughter Stigma Campaign with bestselling author Karin Slaughter.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction — Richard welcomes Joyce Bender 

01:00 Growing up with undiagnosed epilepsy 

05:30 Pivoting from IT executive search to disability employment 

09:00 Why hiring people with disabilities is a business investment 

11:00 Retention, engagement, and the 70% unemployment figure 

14:00 The Bender Leadership Academy and anti-bullying work 

18:00 Teaching confidence, initiative, and public speaking to students 

20:00 500 students on Disability Mentoring Day 

22:00 The iDisability software platform — 52 modules 

25:00 The Slaughter Stigma Campaign with Karin Slaughter 

27:00 The employee who went to work on a stretcher 

31:00 New focus: employment for people with intellectual disabilities 

32:00 University of Pittsburgh partnership and AI in healthcare 33:00 Final words — paychecks not pity

🔗 Connect with Joyce Bender 

Website: www.benderconsult.com / www.benderleadership.org 

LInkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joyce-bender-b840081/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joyce_a_bender/

⭐️ Connect and Subscribe

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Production Credit: Edited and produced by @the32collective_ / https://www.the32collective.co/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to the Business of Thinking podcast. This is the place for high achievers who want more than motivation. They want mastery. Here we skip the surface-level talk and go straight into the psychology of high performance.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Hi, and welcome again to the Business of Thinking. My name is Richard Reed, and today I've got the great pleasure of being joined by Joyce Bender. And as Joyce will come on to tell us very shortly, no doubt, she'll talk a little bit about her background and how experiences of difficulty have led her to do some really fantastic things, helping people with disabilities to transition into the workplace. And in particular, Joyce has set up a leadership academy, but she'll tell us more about that in due course. But first of all, Joyce, welcome. Pleasure to have you here.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be with you, Richard.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

So before we go into a little bit about the Leadership Academy, tell us a little bit about your background because you had a few difficult experiences a few years ago, didn't you? But you've turned those into something quite fantastic. Tell us a little bit about what happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

You know, I always tell people that something bad can happen to you, but it's often what you make of it or how you think about it. In my case, when I grew up as a teenager, I would very occasionally faint. Unusual in that no one, I have one sibling, and no one else in my family ever had this faint. So they thought my mom and dad that it was from some virus, you know, flu of some type, uh, because I was always fine, right, you know, soon after, uh, or low blood pressure, something. Well, when I go in my 20s, it started to change, it got worse. I would get this horrific feeling in my head. And after I had that, once that started, I knew there's no stopping this. That thing's gonna happen. And the thing is, I would faint, I would be unconscious, and when I came to, I would be extremely sick for maybe 15 minutes. It was horrible, horrible. So, you know, one night my husband found me unconscious, and I he didn't know what was going on, so we go to the doctor. The doctor says, Oh, she's fine, it's just some female hormonal problem. So, number one is I'll tell everyone in a minute, when you're not sure about anything neurological, go to the doctor. Uh, but I he was why did I believe him? I was in my 20s and he's a doctor, so I assumed, of course, he would know. And in 1985, I went to see the movie Amadeus, only movie I've ever been to with an intermission. And at the intermission, I went to get a soda. My husband went to the men's room, and I had a seizure, and I hit the floor so hard I fractured my skull, had an intracranial brain hemorrhage, broke the bones in my right inner ear, and of course I was in a coma immediately. And there I am on the floor in front of the concession stand. My husband comes out, and this is what he sees, uh, with blood coming down my neck, but that actually was from my ear injury. Uh, but he, of course, he didn't know. And out of nowhere comes this man, and he says, I'm a doctor. Now there were only about 30, maybe 25 to 30 people out there, because either they didn't get up to come out for the intermission, or everyone else was in their movie. So um it was a miraculous because this doctor said, I know what's wrong. He took over. He called the paramedics, he chose the hospital, um, he stayed with me the entire time. Apparently, I tried to get up, and he said, No, no, she can't get up. And uh, you know, kept me in a reclined position. And then the ambulance came, and when I left, my husband said, Wait, wait, what's your name? And he said, that's all right, and he left. Now, since then, I've been in New York Times, Chicago Tribune, television, I speak at conferences around the world. I'm headquartered in Pittsburgh. I probably, it seems like I know everyone in Pittsburgh, but I never found that person. Which you would think he would want to raise his hand and say, hey, it's me, I'm the hero. Um, that's why when Reader's Digest read a little story about me, it said her angel at the movie theater. So um, and that is what I believe because the story just is so incredible because what I did for a living was executive search in information technology. And after I recovered and got back to work in about two and a half months, I heard about a um program at community college that would train people with disabilities to be cobalt developers. Well, that's what I did. But I wasn't asked to go trying to find them a job. I was asked to go to teach them how to interview, how to write a resume. Um, and I went, I had no idea that the attitudinal barrier toward employing people with disabilities was so horrific. 90% of people with disabilities were not counted in the workforce, and they had college degrees, you know, highly placeable. And after nine years of volunteer work, I said, okay, that's it. I'm starting my own company. So 31 years ago, 1995, I started Bender Consulting Services as a for-profit company that would focus on the employment of people with disabilities in STEM areas, IT, engineering. As a matter of fact, I won the president's award at the White House in 1999 from President Clinton. But the reason is not because of a large number of people, it's because we were the only ones working in competitive employment. In other words, people were in sheltered workshops or they were doing menial jobs, but not like a white-collar type job. Um, and I'll talk to you about it in a little bit, but it wasn't long after that. I started doing volunteer work with high school students with disabilities for 25 years. And in 2018, I said, okay, I'm gonna make that a standalone 501c3, a standalone not-for-profit, uh, which it is today. But I want to tell you, uh, because here comes the business part of this. The way I got started, Bender Consulting Services, is a for-profit company. The focus is on the employment of people with disabilities. But how I got started is I went to the CEO of Blue Cross of Western Pennsylvania, headquartered in Pittsburgh, that went on to become HiMark, which is now the third largest insurance uh provider in the United States with 40,000 employees. But I went to Bill Lowry, that was the CEO, and I said, he actually caused the merger when it became HiMark while he was there. But I said, Bill, I have this dream. I want to start this company, but I need a partner. Would you be willing to bring on contract six people as subcontractors and keep them on for three years? And I'll pay the salary, you know, and the benefits you pay me an hourly rate. And you know what? It only took him one day to say yes. And since then, I've found employment for thousands of people with disabilities. And from a business standpoint, that's because it's not charity, it's a business investment when you hire people with disabilities.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

And it and it seems on the face of it, a no-brainer, doesn't it, that actually you've got these people with all this ability and actually they're not fulfilling it, but also they're not contributing to society in the way that they they they could do. And yet it sounds as though that was quite an entrenched way of looking at people with disabilities.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yes, there is a stigma. Uh, even today, 70% of people with disabilities are still not counted in the workforce, other than when I go speak at a company and they say, Oh, Joyce, we're so glad you're here. You can help us. We're trying to find uh employment for people with disabilities. And I say, Oh, but you already have. They're working here right now, they have depression, bipolar disorder, PTSD, cancer, uh, epilepsy. And oh, by the way, that's a very important part of this story. The reason I had the seizure at the movie theater that was misdiagnosed is I found out I live with epilepsy, which thank goodness anti-seizure medication prevents me from having a seizure. But that's why you see all this purple. Purple is the color for epilepsy, and one in 26 people will have epilepsy uh in their lifetime. But getting back to what you said, yes, Richard, people with disabilities have great ability. Uh, and why I said it's a business investment. I have people that have worked in corporate America for 25 years. People worry about retention. Retention is very expensive. When you hire a person with a disability, they so value the chance to work that there is an incredibly high retention as there is gratitude and employee engagement. You know, when you hire a person with a disability.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

So, what so what gets in the way of this? What are the typical obstacles that stop people from employing people with disabilities?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Uh, they think they can't work, you know, they they think they're can't do the job, fear of being uh sued, and that is never a winner for people with disabilities. Like who has the money to uh compete with Microsoft or Google, Coca-Cola, whoever it would be. Um, and I don't mean them, they actually hire people with disabilities. Um, but it's mainly ignorance, uh, lack of knowledge, and understanding, fear, fear of hiring a person with a disability, and just the overall stigma. You know, people look, I asked a CEO once, what do you think is the problem? He says, because when I see someone in a wheelchair, it causes me anxiety because I'm thinking, oh, that could be me, or that will be me. I mean, and I and also the medical model. Instead of seeing people with disabilities as people with disabilities, they see sick people. See, and that's so, so far off. Uh, and I hope I'm able to change things, not just by people with disabilities employed. Uh, and one of my proudest things is I worked with the National Security Agency for 10 years, hired 200 people with disabilities a year from my company, Bender Consulting Services, STEM, mathematics, linguistics, IT, and how can it get better than working for an intelligence agency?

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

That's why the late governor Dick Thornburg said at this business conference, there's this company I really love in Pennsylvania, Bender Consulting Services. And here's what I have to say. She works with the NSA. If they can hire people with disabilities, what's your excuse?

unknown 13:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

They can, but you can't.

unknown 13:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

And just as you mentioned, Richard, it wasn't long after this. I started doing this volunteer work with high school students with disabilities to prepare them for the world of work and to deal with bullying. Because kids with disabilities are bullied more than any other group, leads not only to depression but suicidal ideation. So we started the Bender Leadership Academy in 2018, a not-for-profit. It's a standalone. So go to www.benderleadership.org and see we also have an emphasis on mental health issues. And vendor consulting, if you're going to hire someone with a disability, which you should, Bender Consult, C-O-N-S-U-L-T.com. And I just want to say about Richard, you know what a champion you are. Not everyone calls me to be on a podcast. Um, and here you are doing something that could change the life of a person with a disability and help a company hire someone with great ability.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Thank you. And I think you know, going back to what you were saying before, it's so important to use these vehicles to discuss these kinds of issues. Because a lot of it is ignorance, isn't it? And I guess the more you can broadcast to people about the reality of the situation and the and the positives that can come from employing people with disabilities, the more we can undermine those confusions.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yes. And if a business person, which I assume business people are watching this, remember you're probably working by someone with a disability, you just don't know it, and they're one of their top performers. But you're missing out on a person that what we have a saying here at Bender, I will be at work every day early with a smile on my face. And I tell my staff, if you're at work every day early with a smile on your face, you already beat 70% of the non-disabled population. So I just want people to know it's an investment, not a charity.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Yeah. And is this just available in the US or is this available elsewhere as well?

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Well, although we work mainly in the United States, I have worked in Canada. And in addition to that, uh, and as far as speaking or trying to help around the world, uh the US State Department, starting 15 years ago, has sent me to Japan, Indonesia, uh, South Korea, Kazakhstan, Panama, through the embassy and with the delegates to try to talk to those countries. It's not just about employment, it's about even the value of life of a person with a disability.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

I was going to ask you, does attitude the disability vary according to the country? In your experience?

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Um I would say that people with disabilities go to the embassy and say help us. So, you know, they do this to help them. But throughout Asia, there is pervasive shame if you have a disability or have a child with a disability. So when I go, I'm saying, you're awesome, you can work, don't be ashamed. You have a disability. Look at me, I live with epilepsy, I'm not ashamed. I have too many neurons firing off. So that means I've got the firepower. So don't be ashamed.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

I think that's a great, great way of looking at it. And my wife is actually epilepsy, so um I'll I will I'll share that one with her. Um and and and and she's got firepower too. She's got firepower, don't I know it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

You know what? I tell young people that, and this one young woman, and she is professional, good job. Uh, but she is from India, and her family were so ashamed she had epilepsy. So she heard me speak somewhere. You know what she did? She got a tattoo on her wrist, firepower.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Like it.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

So, just like you. Now, your wife doesn't have to get the tattoo, but you have to make sure that she sees this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Absolutely. Absolutely. And and when you're going into organizations, you mentioned bullying for sort of students going through the school process. Does any of that sort of extend into the workplace? Do you get a lot of different things?

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yeah, no, what I do with this, yeah. What I do with the students is I insist that they go, that we teach the class at a company. And my reason for that is so they see, oh, this is what corporate America is like. And oh, see how people dress. There's something about actually being at a company and also saying, wow, this is so impressive. Um, and so I teach them there. I teach the class about initiative, preparing for work, um, dealing with bullying, public speaking. As a matter of fact, every class they come with a homework assignment, and that is, even before they meet me, their teachers know they have to give a one to two minute speech on what does it mean to be a good employee? Every class they have to give a speech. So I'm trying to teach confidence, you know, the belief in what you can do and achieve, uh, and ultimately get a job. So last year on Disability Mentoring Day, which so everyone knows the third Wednesday of every October in the United States is Disability Mentoring Day. And on that day, high school students go from nine to one and job shadow someone at a company. And last year we had 500 students that the Vendor Leadership Academy organized going to companies throughout Pittsburgh. 500.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Fantastic. Fantastic. And I'm just reflecting on some of the skills that you mentioned there that you're teaching the students. I I think those skills are valuable for anybody, irrespective of uh whether you have a disability or not. Um, just having the confidence to be the best version of yourself and in the workplace.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Yes, every time a company hears it, we also have a one-day training class. It's eight hours, and it's called the Bender Career Reality Training. And it starts with no pity. I have a saying that if you would go to most disability groups, they would say, Oh, that's Joyce Bender, which is paychecks, not pity. People with disabilities want paychecks, not pity. So I of course, you know, we start by telling everyone, no pity. You do a good job, you move up. You don't do a good job, you don't have a job. It has to be equal treatment across the board. Uh, so at that career reality, we're teaching people about being at work every day early, um, about being affable, being friendly, uh, communication skills, um, being an ambassador, being articulate, um, knowing that the material you use does not belong to you. It belongs to the company. Treat it with respect, um, you know, your appearance, how you dress. We go through all of this. And then when the person starts working on assignment, we still uh mentor them. And call them to make sure they've remembered what we've taught them.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Yeah, fantastic. Fantastic. The other thing that you mentioned was stigma. And I think as with lots of other things that people are uncomfortable with, they don't often know how to broach conversations or situations. And so they they tend to avoid them. I guess that sort of plays into the workplace, doesn't it? Actually, some as you said, some companies are hesitant to employ people with disabilities because they don't know how to handle it. And there's a lot of sort of myths around that. Um, any advice for people who are watching in terms of how they might um engage better with people with disability?

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yes, I do. Uh in 2017 at Bender Consulting Services, we worked with a uh friend of mine, Andy Houghton, and we designed a software product called iDisability. Small I capital D, with 52 modules that teach companies how to work with and communicate with people with disabilities that goes on the LMS system. Um, and also next year it's going to have uh, well, this year, artificial intelligence.

SPEAKER_04 23:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

So that you can just go ask questions and it'll go through all those modules and pull out, you know, what you're asking about. But that the cop the reason we designed that, and it was designed by the way, from people with disabilities. The reason I did that is that stigma. I'm thinking if you educate people, this could change everything. So I would highly suggest that you at least do a demo of eye disability. Uh, you can reach out to BenderConsult.com or eyedisability.com. Um and we will get back in touch with you and we will set up a demo so you can see the product. But you know, it it's things like how to interview people with autism, how to accommodate a veteran with post-traumatic stress disorder, what do you do when someone has a seizure uh you know at work? Uh what it what is your emergency preparedness program if something would happen in the building? So that that's uh that is really taking off.

SPEAKER_04 24:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

The first company, Bank of America, has renewed it every year, and so has Northrop Grumman and other big customers we have, like HighMark and Accenture and Dow Chemical. So yeah, I would highly uh I would highly suggest that's a way to knock out stigma. When you talked about stigma, that reminded me of something else, which is at the Bender Leadership Academy. My close friend Karen Slaughter, S-L-A-U-G-H-T-E-R, is a best-selling author. She has written millions of uh she has millions of books published, and she has written, you know, 40 to 50 some books on uh thrillers. And guess what? She made her lead character, Will Trent, who solves the crimes, have dyslexia, and now there's a TV show called Will Trent, ABC, Tuesdays at eight o'clock. And it's so she she also said she would be willing, I had an idea. What if we have a slaughter stigma campaign? And the S would have in it unity, love, peace. Uh, and if you go to Benderleadership.org, you'll see Karen talking about killing stigma.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

It's so important, isn't it? Having more of these conversations, more information for people uh can only help.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Yeah. And when we were talking about uh gratitude, I have an employee, African-American, with a significant disability, uh cerebral palsy, but it's impacted his speaking. He actually operates his wheelchair with his hands behind him. Uh, it looks like a remote control on the wheelchair. And the reason he does that is he has so much spasticity in his arms. He can't operate a wheelchair, even a power wheelchair. So you'll see him zooming down the streets of Pittsburgh and wonder how the heck is he doing that? Um, and he has difficulty speaking. So when I met him, he had on the bottom of his resume, I will accept $10,000 a year because of my disability. And I looked at it and I said, okay, whoever told you to put this on here, take it off. That's terrible. Yeah. Because by the way, you know what his degree is? Master's degree in rehab and technology uh in engineering from the University of Pittsburgh. But he should put that on his resume. Yeah. Well, anyway, I I placed him uh at high mark. So one day he was going to work uh as a software developer. I'm sorry, as a software developer. One day he's going to work and his wheelchair breaks, and he doesn't know what to do. So he has the Pittsburgh police call an ambulance and went back to work on a stretcher because he did not want to miss work.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Now thank goodness when he got there, they fixed the wheelchair. That's just one, I have countless examples uh of something like this, like CJ in uh Indianapolis. Oh, I do work nationally. I work all across the United States. So CJ is in IT, and uh he's gone across the street in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and he's hit by a cab. And the the he goes off, the van goes flying, the uh chair goes flying. Uh, and when he called us, he said, Hey, I got hit by uh a cab, but don't worry, I called an Uber to go to the hospital. And we said, What? Don't do that again. No, don't call an Uber. He said, I wanted to make sure I got there quickly enough. Well, he said, I have good news for you. No broken bones, but lacerations, cuts, the wheelchair doesn't work. But hey, I'm only gonna miss one day of work. And when I told that story to Ted Kennedy Jr., he said, okay, that's it. Every time I speak, I'm gonna say, quit complaining about snow or whatever, why you can't get to work. This guy was hit by a cab and he went back in one day. But you know, and I've certainly I'm not telling anyone to do that. My point of this story is you value work if you've been left out. If no one has given you a chance, you value work. And my employees, I place people at all levels. What happens is they work on contract for me at a company for six months, and at the end of six months, they're hired by the partner company, or they're placed directly like a search firmway at all levels, including the senior level. And uh I went the C COO of a company said, you know, I asked to review, see the reviews of your top three project man that the project manager you placed here, and they were all stellar. So I have businesses if they are working with me that will say, Hey, do you need me to be a reference to someone else? Um, I have employees that have saved companies money. Uh, and I place people in procurement, HR finance, not just IT.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Yeah, it's fantastic, fantastic. And long may it continue. Um, what what are you working on now? You struck me as somebody who's always busy and always got something on the go. What projects have you got coming up in the near future?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Well, what I'm working on right now, and you're right, is I am working on finding employment for people with intellectual disabilities. So a friend of mine, Dr. Green, is at the University of Pittsburgh, and they gave Dr. Green a $12 million grant to set up an institute focused on finding uh employment and quality of life for people with intellectual disabilities because they have the highest unemployment, you know, of any disability. And that's that's always been a thing with me is you know, I would have parents calling me saying, what's gonna happen to my child when I'm not here? Yeah, they have Down syndrome. What's gonna happen? Well, now I've placed people in a print shop and two people in a distribution center, uh, not some shoulder workshop. Everyone else there does not have disabilities. Yeah, um, and it pays very well with excellent benefits. Here's the best part you can move up and move over to a job at the hospital. Um, so I'm gonna be working, I'm gonna be focusing on that, and how I'm gonna couple that together is with the Bender Leadership Academy. And I'm also doing work with the University of Pittsburgh on healthcare and AI, how this all intersects and what it's going to mean in hope, saving lives and moving things forward, but also, you know, things you have to make sure you have an ethics team and you're looking at every part of it.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Fantastic. Fantastic. So no flies on you. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

That's just a few things I have coming up. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Fantastic. I'd love to have you back on to find find out more in the future. Um, we're just sort of coming towards the end of today. Any final words that you want to leave people with to reflect on?

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Um, I would just say we want paychecks, not pity. Competitive jobs mean freedom. Uh, hire someone with a disability, go to benderconsult.com and reach out to us today. And for the Bender Leadership Academy at Benderleadership.org, donate. Any every amount matters, but make a donation today. Oh, and listen to my podcast. I've been on now 22 years. Uh I have my 1000th episode last year, and that's on Disability Matters with Joyce Bender on voiceamerica.com.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Fantastic. Joyce, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Thank you for having me. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Thank you. This is the business of thinking. Mastery doesn't end here. See you in the next episode.