Why Your Hardest Moments Are Your Greatest Gifts ft. Mark DeBellis

Adversity is something most of us try to avoid — yet it may be the most powerful force shaping who we become. In this thoughtful episode, Richard is joined by Mark DeBellis, founder of the Gifts of Adversity Project, who spent years collecting stories of people who have turned their hardest moments into their greatest strengths. Drawing on his own experience of homelessness and family breakdown in his early teens, Mark reflects on what adversity really gives us — and why we rarely recognise it as a gift until long after the fact.

From a young man who became a motivational speaker after losing his sight, to a father who turned grief into a foundation helping other children, this episode reframes what it means to struggle. Mark shares his five pillars for a resilient life and leaves listeners with a powerful analogy about living on two tracks at once — so the good doesn't get lost while you navigate the bad.

Key Takeaways

Adversity is a gift nobody asks for and rarely recognises until after the fact — but it builds skills and character nothing else can. 

Hindsight is powerful — looking back at what we survived changes how we face what lies ahead. 

Adversity is personal — what feels minor to one person may feel catastrophic to another. 

Don't create your own adversity — many difficulties stem from unconscious decisions. 

Life runs on two tracks — don't let focus on the bad cause you to miss the good still happening around you.

Episode Highlights

Mark's teenage years — bouncing between campgrounds and periods of homelessness as the oldest child holding the family together. 

How shame kept him from acknowledging his experiences for years. 

The blind motivational speaker who turned permanent vision loss into a platform. 

The father who lost a son and built a foundation helping other children. 

Mark's five pillars — faith, friends, finances, fun, and family. 

The train track analogy — life is not a roller coaster but two parallel tracks running at once.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction — Richard welcomes Mark DeBellis 

01:10 The Gifts of Adversity Project and why Mark created it 

03:15 Homelessness, family breakdown and building resilience 

05:28 Why Mark didn't recognise any of it at the time 

08:08 Embracing adversity in the moment rather than only in retrospect 

09:52 Rumination, getting stuck, and moving forward 

11:03 Owning your outcome — the cancer survivor who challenged his doctors 

12:29 Control the controllables 

13:37 Turning pain into purpose — the father who lost a son 

14:17 Are younger generations equipped to handle adversity? 

18:06 Vulnerability and transparency in leadership 

21:21 Blindness, transformation and becoming a motivational speaker 

24:17 Adversity is personal — the iPhone versus the death of a spouse 

27:54 Five pillars for a resilient life 

33:22 The Gifts of Adversity website — how to share your story 

38:07 The train track analogy — don't miss the good while navigating the bad

🔗 Connect with Mark DeBellis 

Website: www.giftsofadversity.com 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markdebellis/

⭐️ Connect and Subscribe

Thank you for joining us on The Business of Thinking podcast. If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe and leave a rating! It helps us bring more insightful content on the psychology of high performance. Find more about Richard Reid's work at www.richard-reid.com.

Download the first two chapters of Richard's "Charisma Unlocked", audio or PDF version for free and begin your transformation towards authentic charisma:

https://richard-reid.com/master-authentic-charisma/

Production Credit: Edited and produced by @the32collective_ / https://www.the32collective.co/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to the Business of Thinking Communication. This is the place for high achievers who want to be more than motivated. They want to be motivated. Here we skip the surface level talk and go straight into the technology of high performance.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Hello and welcome to the business of thinking. My name is Richard Reid. And today we're going to talk about the theme of adversity. And for many of us, adversity fails as we dread. It's something that we actively try and avoid. And yet, so often it's something that helps to shape our direction in life. It's something that can change our view on ourselves and our lives. And also it can reveal interesting things in terms of skills and aptitudes and strengths that maybe otherwise we wouldn't have been aware of. And today's guest is very much all about how it is that we can embrace adversity. Mark De Belis, welcome to the show. Really great to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

My pleasure. And you you work on a project called the Gifts of Adversity, don't you? You've got a website and you basically curate stories and collect stories all around how adversity has shaped people's lives. Tell us a little bit about how you got involved in this area.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Yeah, well, I would say that I got to a point in my life, you know, at this season, the later season of life, the last quarter, let's say, and I began to really reflect on, you know, life and the where my life has led me, and looking backwards at the experiences I had, and I realized that probably for the very first time, how valuable these challenges that I went through in life were to me in building certain skills and character and other important um lessons that came to me because of difficulties. And when you're in the midst of it, you know, we all are in the midst of it from time to time, uh, we don't really enjoy those things. Um, but I thought that it would be important upon that reflection to begin uh collecting those kinds of stories and you know, helping people tell their story. And the goal really is to try to give people perspective, you know, um, especially the younger generation. So that's that's really the core goal, um, hopefully, to um share with people that adversity typically isn't permanent, and it certainly can be, but uh even if you acknowledge it as being something that is long-term, and understanding that and being able to kind of lean into it and own the outcome is very powerful itself. So um we can't avoid it. So we just have to learn to live with it.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Absolutely. So it's a reality whether we like it or not, isn't it? Um Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah exactly.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Absolutely. And and we'll delve into that in a little bit more detail very shortly. But tell us a little bit about your personal backstory, how this relates to this thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Well, um, you know, at a young age, uh my early teens, we uh our family really got split up through a number of different circumstances. Um, you know, parents were divorced, mother had mental issues, had a tremendous nervous breakdown. And uh so we were after that experience, um, our mother, who I love dearly and respect and you know, idolize, um, really struggled to keep our family uh whole and to keep you know um the basics together. It's uh it was just a terrible, terrible circumstance. And so we bounced around through many different experiences for a couple of years as part of that. Um, you know, we were in and out of campgrounds, we lived with friends, we were homeless for a period of time, and it was one of those hand-to-mouth experiences. And during that, of course, um, I happened to be the oldest in the family, so I had um, I think more responsibility than I should have. Um, but you know, you do whatever it takes to get through. And those lessons, as crazy as they sound for a young man to be doing some of the things I did, um, by the time I, you know, was 18, I had built up all of this resilience and all of this knowledge and just this uh worldliness, I think is probably a good way to capture it, that made me um much older in my, you know, in my uh perspective. And so, you know, at 18, 19, 20 years old, I knew how to do things. I knew how to you know make things happen. And I didn't realize that until I looked backwards and it just helped me understand how fortunate I was to be able to sort of get toughened through those experiences, learn how to handle myself, handle difficulties, think creatively. And once I got into the uh working world in a professional sense, I just had some, you know, some color that others didn't have. And I think that really helped differentiate me.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

And was it then that you became fully aware of that? Were you aware of that as you were going through that process?

SPEAKER_01 5:29

No, I really didn't become aware of it because truthfully, when you go through difficulties, and I'm sure I'm not um unusual in this, you often don't want to admit that you're in the middle of something, you know, or acknowledge it to others that you've gone through certain things. We always, I think many of us, you know, I certainly do, and I know many of us, you know, keep a facade on our experiences so that we appear perfect and we appear um kind of infallible. But uh once once I think you get to an age in life, and that's where I'm at now, I I I just uh have no problem with being transparent about those things. But I think when I was young, like many, you really don't want to let everybody inside to see those things. Um, so I dealt with that by really denying that I even went through those things and never would share some of those early experiences with anybody because I felt I was less than, you know, maybe the average person because I had to had to experience those things. But um, and I'm sure we all have things like that. They're all different, they have different titles on them and different experiences, but those those are things that um uh are gifts. And, you know, um you may not see it immediately, um, but you typically will see see it at some point. And and that's the that's where the beauty is. And that's what I wanted to try to identify in this site is um in it, you know, as again as we age, especially we have the benefit of hindsight. When we're in the middle of the fight, we're not embracing it typically, or we're trying to get away from it, if anything. But it's that it's that look backwards, you know, that allows us to see, wow, look what, look how I got through that. If I can get through that, what can what else can I get through, right? And so um it really was just again unpacking all that for me to see that. And then once I realized for myself those things and saw the benefits, I I really felt it would be so valuable to help other people see those things and then to share those with other people because everybody has their own journey, you know, their own unique experience. Probably no two of us are like in that sense. So they've gone through the same thing but in a different way or whatever it might be. And um, then trying to uh create the um perspective that these people have that I've shared on my site about you know what that meant to them and how they were able to take that and chart a path forward. It's all about moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Absolutely, absolutely learning from things. And uh I don't know about you, but I think you know the the the idea that you're promoting, if we can embrace that as an idea when we're going through these things rather than just in retrospect. Yeah. Imagine how much different it can be and how how more smooth that we might run through those things rather than being caught up in the anxiety or the resistance to what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

It's so contrary to how we're wired, I think. You know, um, because nobody likes to seek out pain. No animal is purposely pursuing pain, but um you know, that it obviously can be a benefit. And you know, we seek pain in the gym, we seek pain in you know, first-time circumstances, we seek difficulty in trying out for the sports team. So there are things that we purposely do that are going to challenge us. And the adversity, although we don't ask for it, it's really it's the gift I like to say that nobody asks for, nobody wants that we're in the middle of it and never really realize it until they're out of it, you know, and it might be sometime afterwards. So it's kind of an odd, odd way to look at it as a gift, but it really, really does become that.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Yeah, and and and but you know, you and I have spoken before today's show, and um, so you know a little bit about my background, but I sort of cut my teeth working in the the the environment of trauma with police, with with train services, people like that. Uh and so often there's these events that people experience, you know, they go to work, think it's gonna be a normal day, and these out of the ordinary things happen, and and people come at the other side and think, how is life ever gonna be the same again? And so often it's not, but it doesn't mean it's gotta be worse. Actually, it can be different, in some ways, it can be richer.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah. Well, and you know, the the interesting about uh thing about those circumstances is there's really nothing we can do about the circumstance after it's happened. And that's that's the thing that you know gets us stuck, right? We get we get into that and and we ruminate and we live in that environment, and that holds us back from moving forward in whatever capacity that is. We may not be the same ever, but we still should strive to move forward and try to make the most out of whatever it is that we have, you know. And I've I've talked with people who've lost children and people who've lost, you know, have had major health struggles and things like that. And nobody would ever say that that was a gift to, you know, um necessarily have those things happen. But in hindsight, with perspective in time, they can look at it as in some cases, something positive may have come from that. Certainly, life, you know, the life trajectory changed, and trying to find some good, you know, in the darkness is really healthy because you do need to move forward. I mean, we we need to keep moving ahead. Um, there's no gain for us to stay stuck, in my opinion. Um so, you know, how do you facilitate that? How do you you know come to terms with that um for yourself? I had one um one of the people I interviewed in my book, I mean my website wrote a book about cancer survival. He had gone through cancer five times, and he said, you know, after the third time, like, what's next?

SPEAKER_02 11:30

You know, yeah, no more, no more gifts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah, he found that if he took ownership, greater ownership of the journey and became more accountable to the outcome, even though he's not a doctor, but so he read everything he could, he challenged the doctors, he owned his outcome, and that's very powerful. Yeah, you know, even when you think, well, how can I solve the um you know this medical issue? I don't have those capabilities, but I can take it to a point which allows me to have some control, some influence over the outcome in the direction. And that that becomes um part of the gift, if you will, because you you can facilitate um you know a forward movement. So um, you know, we so taking going on the offensive, you know, as opposed to the defensive when you're in adversity to some extent, I think helps you gain some control and courage.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Yeah, so totally agree. And and I I'm interested, you mentioned control and influence there. I often teach clients a model, CIA, control, influence, and acceptance. So differentiating, knowing you can't direct the whole situation, you maybe you can chip away and break it down into components and tackle those in different ways.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah, and you know, you can I'm a font, very fond of the saying control the controllables. You know, there's a lot of things you just cannot control. And um, so why waste time trying to do that? Control what you can, influence what you can exactly in line with what you're saying. And you're empowered when you do that. Otherwise, you you know you end up in a victim um sort of mindset, and that doesn't really help anybody. Yeah, you know, it helped if anything, it makes it puts you in a worse um circumstance. You know, a dear friend of mine who lost his son, you know, was heartbroken and um, you know, just destroyed when he lost his son. And it took a few years, but eventually they came around to establish a foundation under his name and began to use that circumstance to begin helping other children. And so he looks back now 10 years and he can talk about it in a different way. It just took on a completely new meaning. He turned that pain into purpose, and you know, again, um, he could have and probably still does have a lot of remorse, of course. But this is a way to balance those things that happen to us in life that we can't control and put you know, put it in in some sort of perspective.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Yeah, yeah, makes makes a lot of sense. And you you started off today by talking about how one of the reasons why you're curating all these things is for younger generations. Do you think that society's uh set up for young people to embrace um some of these challenges in a way that perhaps it was for previous generations?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

It's it seems to me after you know looking at this topic for a while, that you know, we as a as a uh um species have continued to decrease the amount of adversity we have in our lives. That's almost like an evolutionary track, right? Where we've everything has gotten easier. You know, you talk about your if you talk about your great-grandparents and what they need to do, you know, in a typical day versus what we need to do. Um it's a it's a huge need. You know, go back 100 years and the examples are pretty obvious, but with um the younger generation um who really has grown up in an environment uh this these last 15 or 20 years and in the world have been unusual and have been uh fraught with lots of conveniences and technologies and everything that has you know helped us make uh the path in life uh so much uh simpler than it's ever been. And so my fear with that is there's nothing wrong with technology and the you know enhancements to make life easier and um more efficient and all of those things. It's just that when I think when uh adversity strikes, we're less apt to deal with it because we haven't gotten toughened at all. You know, we haven't been able to build up our, you know, our muscle memory to deal with those things. So those are the things with in terms of um trying to give the younger generation perspective and to see these examples and to know that you know, for the most part, many things in life are temporary and we'll get through those. Um, but uh to have the confidence and courage to be brave uh pushing through those things and realizing that as a result, you're gonna be better and stronger. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

You know, so yeah, yeah, totally totally agree. And I, you know, I was thinking about uh my own children and you know, come and refrain for me and they'll they'll roll their eyes, but actually, even things like you know, not to trivialize adversity anyway, but even things like tolerance for for boredom. You know, all of these things uh they they they help you to withstand difficulties for longer, don't they? Actually, to be creative and to think your way out of situations.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yeah, that's a really good point. Um, so much of our life today is a point, click, and order up, you know, even food.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

I'm hungry. Well, somebody will show up at the door with it, you know, for you. And multiple choices. We've we've already. Yeah, exactly. Right. And so it's just been this uh you know ultra convenient time to be alive. Um, and so you know, we know life has a way of um you know of surprising us, and uh what we what we've um come to know, you know, throughout history, there's been cycles of things that have changed how you know how we have lived and how to adapt. So um it's hard to um embrace again pain and difficulty when everything is so easy. Yeah. Um, but I think it's it's good for the good for the soul in a we're in a way, and it it reminds us you know of our humanity and keeps us humble.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Yeah, and and and it's really interesting what you're saying there, because I think, you know, I I do a lot of work in the corporate arena, and I'm I'm thinking about that idea of suffering humility that actually you know, even in this day and age, there's a lot of leaders who think about this idea of presenting perfection. And yes, we want to be competent of what we do, but actually sometimes acknowledging some of those difficulties that we've been through actually helps to normalize other people's experiences, doesn't it? And creates more authentic and open conversations.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Yeah, and I I would say that's a real um healthy uh change in our society, and to some extent, you know, because um 20, 30, 40 years ago, we never really talked about, let's say, the family business or the issues that we have we are feeling internally. That was sacrosanct. We um just as a culture felt that we had to keep that, you know, keep that inside. And has the pendulum swung too far? You know, perhaps in some cases, where there seems to be sometimes no limits to what we share. Yeah. And that that may or may not be good. Uh probably depends on that. So we are where we are, and um, it has uh I think a lot of topics have gotten on the table that would have never been talked about before, which are a positive thing. And so um some transparency is a good thing. And um, but I do think um, I know, you know, going back to that those experiences I had when I was going through the things that I was going through, um, there was really a reticent uh for me to let anybody know what I was, you know, experiencing because I felt um that I would be judged. And truthfully, I think I would have been judged, you know. So some of that self-preservation that goes into play. You know, you you have lived through things and experienced things, not everything needs to be shared. Um, because that can that can create compromising circumstances too for someone. So we we can't be all you know, all transparent all the time. Um there we need to protect protect our um you know our cell ourselves and our sense. Um, and uh certainly some of this um transparency is good, but too much, and like they say, how much oversharing can you do, and how at what point is it too much?

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a really interesting point. And um, you know, I'm all for sharing. You know, as a therapist, it's it's it's a really important thing for people to do, but there is such a thing as putting yourself in vulnerable positions by oversharing, but also sometimes I think that oversharing is also uh an indication of lack of tolerance for holding things, you know. So we put them out there in the world because we because we can't tolerate to hold them for ourselves. So there's again, there's that sense of imbalance that needs to be struck. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

You know, yeah, I think people um with perspective, people will um hopefully make better choices around those things. Um, and if they see how others have handled things and the the benefits and the the you know the negatives um of how they you know deal with their their information and their circumstance. Um, you know, it we're we do have a lot more examples that of that today, kind of in our, you know, in our um view than ever before. So, but um, you know, what I'm what I get excited about is seeing people that I've talked to who have really climbed out of different circumstances. And, you know, were it not for their sharing of it, you wouldn't have assumed that they uh had any of those problems. And then to see how that experience has fortified their daily life, you know, they are once you come through some very adverse circumstances, you know, you are a completely different person. It is a transformation. Uh, and so um, you know, whether it's someone who you know had an illness and overcame it and then became much more confident in their business, for instance, because they they well, we fought this, let's, you know, that gives me an additional dose of courage.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Young man, um, skills that don't just apply to that arena, but to they they echo out in some of the things you do. Yeah. Sorry, I I interrupted you.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

No, no, no. I but that. It you you are you're capturing these skills that you didn't realize you had. Um, you know, one young man who um I saw I uh he was speaking at a function. I I teach uh at the college, and I get a chance to you know put my philosophy to work in my courses, and uh young man who spoke at one of our functions um was blind. Uh he's standing over in the corner. I didn't didn't know why he was there necessarily, and he had his cane and he walked up and he spoke for about 20 minutes on on um technology. And I said, you know, I've got to talk to that guy. I've got to get him, I've got to talk to him about his journey because I knew he was recently blinded. Okay. So he has had a chronic illness, which uh led to permanent blindness, and it all happened within the last five or six years. So, you know, he shared with me that that journey and how devastating it was at first. And then, you know, as a therapist, you go through different phases of from denial to finally accepting and then building on that. And he's now um he's a he's a motivational speaker. Um, he's got uh family, uh, just had a new child, and it probably made him more who he is or who he could be than if he were to have kept his sight. Very capable guy, very you know, dynamic young man, but that put him into a completely different set of circumstances, which he embraced and leveraged to add another degree of sort of a superpower for him, you know. But again, what choice did he have? He could he could complain, of course, which he probably did, and he could uh wallow in his own self-pity. But he said, you know, I'm gonna lean into this, I'm gonna make this part of who I am, and I'm gonna inspire everybody that I get a chance to talk to about how limitations shouldn't stop you from what your dreams are. Yeah, that's powerful.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

It's fantastic, isn't it? And I think it puts a lot of other people's challenges into into proportion, doesn't it? It's incredibly inspiring, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

You know, to that point, uh Richard, I uh I think about this a lot, and I realize that everybody gets to decide what degree of adversity they can handle. Like it's all very personal, you know. Um, so it what might feel like adversity to me may feel like the end of the world to somebody else, or vice versa. And what I might see as a minor inconvenience of sorts, somebody else feels it's the end of the world. And we see that especially as you know, with youth as they mature and you've, you know, for mom and dad talking to the child about whatever that first thing was that they experience it's the end of the world, you know, first breakup, whatever it might be. Um, so you know, you do you do get perspective, but everybody deals with, I think, and it'd be interesting your thoughts as a therapist, at least what I've discovered is the the feelings and the emotional side of that um is gonna be the same whether you're dealing with if somebody's dealing with you know a death of a spouse and somebody is dealing with losing their iPhone, you know, and uh it's still the same feeling.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Um it just has different different impact.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Absolutely. So, you know, it's it's all related to the individual, isn't it? And and as you say, some of that is about um lived experience up to that point, your your reference point, um, as to how serious that is and and and the evidence you've got that you're able to deal with it. And some of it is the value that we place on on things, isn't it, in relation to ourselves, what does it say about me? Um a lot of it is about the the the personal value that we we attach to something. I think it's a lot of drama work. You know, different people coming out of different experiences with very different takeaways. Some people will see it as an unfortunate thing that happens, some people see it as a statement about them. Um and and some of that is is uh based upon circumstance, some of that is based upon upbringing, all of these different things coming come into play. Um and I think that's important we validate everybody's experience, but but equally we try and encourage people to maximize that as an opportunity given that we don't have any choice of whether it's happening or not.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yes, right, and you know, uh everybody's process of getting through it's gonna be different too. It's gonna take longer, take you know, a different time frame for every person based on their uh their unique circumstances. So we we need to acknowledge that or you know, be aware of that. So um I think that's the other thing I've seen in these um stories is just how long it may have taken somebody to get to the other side, let's say, to a good place, um, or to embrace whatever that was as a source of strength, you know, as fuel to push forward to something else. And um, you know, some people it may just take a short time, uh, and others it may take a lifetime. So, but getting through it is certainly the goal in one way or another. You know, ending up on the other side of it with a new perspective is hopefully what everybody gets to.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Yeah, definitely is what we we need to aspire to, isn't it? And are there ways in which you um think people can develop more resilience around adversity? Are there active things that that that you've come across, you think actually this is something that we should all consider developing, um, irrespective of whether we're going through a situation or not?

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah, that's a great question. And you know, um, I think first of all, is being aware of your um strengths and weaknesses. I think it's important to have some sort of an inventory of yourself because you know, we are we make decisions every day that could create adversity. And I I wrote a little article on um on the site about um stop creating your own adversity because you know oftentimes we'll just um act without thinking. That's just human nature, and we get ourselves into a situation. It's like, ah man, what I now I got to deal with that, right? So I would say try to be um as conscious and conscientious of those decision processes, you know, build build some foundation for yourself that you're operating from. So these circumstances aren't created, you know, without you know, some forethought. And I, for me, I've I've come up with what I call my pillars, you know, my my five pillars, which help me manage my life. Yeah. So faith, you know, having faith, um, I have faith in God, you know, and uh love God, love people is um a watchword for me. Everybody's gonna have their own, you know, degree of that. But I think it's hard to move through life without having some faith and without believing that you're here for a purpose and um and it matters. Uh I also um feel it's important to have good friends. Yeah, my my friends have been so instrumental in my life, and especially even in high school. And I share a story about my high school friend who really helped me get on a path different than where I was going through those difficult times of mine and ultimately going to college. He was my college roommate, and um it changed my trajectory. So having good friends, being a good friend, finding friends that make you better is helpful because if you're with people that make you better, you will get into fewer issues, you know, you will have fewer circumstances to have to navigate out of. Um, so uh friends, finances is another one, you know, as a um just as a normal sort of uh course in your life. It's a big part of everybody's life. But we typically run into problems when we outspend our finances. And now there's adversity right there staring at us. So kind of learning to live with that and building that is um important just to know what your boundaries are, because if you don't, then you will find yourself getting into trouble. And one problem can create another problem, creating another problem. So, you know, life is never perfect, um, but just having having your eye on those key things. And the last one I think I have is fun. You know, have a reason to have fun, you know, and find something you love to do, do it. Um, you know, that's the reward in life. Uh, don't don't uh ignore that. Make sure you're allocating enough time in your life for those uh things. And and the and the last one uh would be family. Uh, you know, be blessed to have a family, take care of your family. Um, those are um important, important relationships. And if you um ignore those, you know, that creates adversity too. So I think if you cover all those bases and you know be mindful um of how you interact within those things, it's going to be um you'll have perhaps less adversity. Not that you will have none, but you'll you should have less.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Yeah, yeah. I think those are all really useful things to consider. And they're all different forms of support, aren't they? But there's there's a lot in there around thinking about things outside of yourself, isn't there? Thinking about people, thinking about higher, higher purpose or or or faith. And I think this is really important, isn't it? Because I think yes, we need to be self-aware, but it's that balance, isn't it, between that and being too self-absorbed. We actually can get bogged down in in thoughts, and sometimes having these connections, it's you know, you can get practical support from that, but also different perspectives on things. It's very easy to get locked into one way of being, particularly when you're going through a difficult period.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Yeah. Yeah, well, um, you know, that's why faith is so important. And and by and large, the world is um made up of the faithful. There's uh, you know, eight billion on, and there's six billion that, you know, have faith, um, and maybe more than that that just aren't counted. So we realize that we need to have that um connection to a higher power to God, you know, and to um uh follow those tenets that make life better, make life uh more rich and rewarding. And um typically you're in, you know, engaged in the good things in life. So if you ignore that, you know, again, it opens you to adverse circumstances. Um, you know, you disregard good things in life and and choose different paths that could, you know, create a bad outcome. Yes. So I think that's probably the most important one of all of them. Um and uh again, don't create your own adversity. Rule number one.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

So so true, isn't it? There's that there's enough adversity without going looking for it. Yeah. So so who contributes to the website? Is it just people that happen to find the website that provide stories, or is there a way in which you sort of uh collect those?

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Yeah, um I have uh had a few people come to the site, uh just found it by looking for it. Um I have I have now a total of uh 7,500 visitors to the site. So I that was a number that has surprised me. It's been about a couple years I've been working on this. And I've um I've uh acquired generally I acquire the stories by finding a story or a circumstance that I think is worth talking about, you know, just from meeting people or from seeing somebody posting something. Maybe there's a you know a conversation in Facebook or LinkedIn or one of the social media platforms. Oh, this person has a story to tell. Let me let me connect with them and help that story come out, you know. Um, and uh typically um I author the stories with approval from the person I'm writing about. So you don't have to be a writer to submit your story. Um so I um I try to interview them and take take a uh sense of what they gain, help them understand maybe uh what I see and maybe they didn't see. So that part of the experience actually for me is really interesting. And you know, this as a therapist. I'm not a therapist, not a trained therapist. Um, but just having that um really raw conversation sometimes is really powerful. And uh in some cases, you know, it's very cathartic too for the person that sharing their story and it kind of takes them right back into where that where that all happened, whatever it was, and and then and that uh resilience that they gained from that. And um, so uh, you know, I'd love to continue to add more stories. I uh would love your listeners to go on the site and share, share um, you know, their information so I can contact them and you know write their story. And know that, you know, everybody has a story. Uh, it doesn't have to be the first one or the only one of something. I think you know, we all have gone through similar things. And I bet over the course of all the adversity out there that we can put everything into certain buckets, you know, maybe there's 10, 10 adversity buckets, you know, but everybody's experiencing going through those is going to be unique and different. And how they got to the other side. And that learning and that perspective is what's valuable to the person who might be seeing your story. And, you know, in a in a um, without really knowing where this was going, um, when I put this whole thing together, I wanted to make sure that if somebody came to my site in an adverse circumstance, in a really you know, in a trauma-induced situation, I wanted them to be able to um find help that was beyond just maybe a story that was here. So I also have on the site a list of resources that somebody is in a crisis situation, if somebody is in a spiritual crisis, if somebody's in homelessness, you know, if somebody's dealing with um, you know, other circumstances, there's uh resources that they can go to to get help beyond just reading a story. So um I don't know how um people are getting here necessarily and what mindset they may be coming in. They may have gone through something. So I need to see what other people have done, um, or maybe I'll get some perspective and give me um a different view of what I'm dealing with. But if it's beyond that, I want to make sure that they have another place to go.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Makes makes absolute sense. And and for people who are who are listening or watching this and and don't know the website, are you able to share the the the website address for people?

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Sure. Uh it's www.giftsofadversity.com. There's a link there. You can uh just shoot me an email and share your information. We can we can connect. If you have a you have a story that you've um already prepared, and you know, some people I think there's a there is a initiative in our in our era now to uh you know create these legacy stories that could be passed on to families. So many people at our age have probably thought through some of these things. Maybe they've actually put pen to paper. Maybe that story that they already have created has a great place here as well, as wherever else it's going. So, you know, I would invite people to look at this as yet one more, one more place in the in the uh universe for their story to to exist. I love that idea.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

That's a fantastic idea. We're just coming towards the end now, Mark. Any final thoughts that you want to share with the viewers or the listeners?

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Yeah, you know, I have one favorite um story that uh was told to me by a pastor actually, which I find to get so much um so much uh peace from. And that is we we're going through life, you know, and adversity hits us. We have a tendency as humans to deal with adversity and everything in life as sort of a binary thing. It's we're up and we're down, you know. How are you doing? I'm great. Oh, I'm not so great. And we go through life with that sort of on and off switch. I'm doing good or I'm not doing good. And the thing that I was shared was shared with me was the importance of remembering that while you're doing this, there's still a lot of stuff happening on another track. So don't think of your life as a roller coaster so much, as but more like a train track. And on one track is the bad stuff, whatever that is. But at the same time in your life, the good stuff is happening too. And if you just focus on the bad stuff, you're gonna miss all the good stuff. So you may be spending all this time, you know, years or months, days, whatever it is, whatever that time is, focusing on all the bad. And in the meantime, all these good things have happened that you lost, you missed. And that that just hits me uh so squarely. And getting that perspective about our lives and being able to sort of compartmentalize almost the good and the bad. Don't lose the good because you know it's not going to come around again. While you're in the middle of the bad stuff, the good stuff is just gonna keep going and you've you've missed it. And it I think maintaining that mindset helps you live a more balanced life.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Thank you. I really, really, really like that. I think uh I hope that's helpful for a lot of people who are listening. Mark, it's been an absolute pleasure, and and I I feel like we've only just scratched the surface of this topic. So it'd be great, uh, maybe a little bit further down the line to get you back on and get an update on how things are going with the website and everything else that you're you're working on. Um, and continue this conversation. Really, really enjoyed it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

I really appreciate the chance to share it, and thanks for being able to you know uncover all of these little anecdotes and um ideas to help your listeners. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

This is the business of thinking. Mastery doesn't end here. See you in the next episode.