20. How Christian Men Can Face Doubt Without Quitting

Thomas doubted. David lamented. Peter sank mid-miracle. The strongest men in Scripture had moments of deep uncertainty, and none of them kept it to themselves forever. Why doubt is common, why men hide it, and what it looks like to face it without walking away from faith.

YouTube

Instagram

Facebook

Transcript

Welcome, Moves, And Big Life Changes

Jon 0:10

Welcome to the Uncommon Man Podcast. We are your host. I'm John. I'm Devin. And we are, I am happy to be here again with you.

Devin 0:21

I get no, I'm just kidding, man. I'm super pumped to be back. I I love doing this. This is truly like um a moment for us. You know, both of us work full-time jobs. This is kind of like our chance uh to be able to just sit back, have a conversation, to lift each other up, and then yeah, hope to God that uh somebody else somewhere out there is is getting something from it. If you've made it this far and you're brotherhood fist bump. No, man, see I have to blow, I have to do the fist bump and blow it up with it with aerial. Like to every father should do that with their kids. If you don't, you're screwing up, do it. Yeah, exactly. Um, but no, man, it's uh everything's good. We're finalizing some some moving details. Uh we have found a house, so we are praying relentlessly that the Lord provides uh continues to. And um needless to say, I've had quite a bit of doubts in the process. So ironically, today's topic. And we did, um but we were talking right right before we came live about um how we have like last week we talked about anxiety. I opened up about some of my uh history and how I've dealt with it. You opened up the week before about anger and things like that for you. Um and then in this one, we were talking about how kind of anger, anxiety, and doubt are all linked together. And you actually use the word that they're coexit that they that they coexist. Yeah, immediately I was like, I don't use that. And we were like bumper sticker killed it. That bumper and you all know the whole it ruined the whole word. You all know the bumper sticker too we're talking about. It's blue with white letters, and then um if you don't know this, uh it basically is saying that all the religions of the world should learn to coexist. Uh so like Islam, uh Judaism, Catholicism, Christianity, all of them should just learn to coexist type deal. That it's yeah, it makes me cringe too. Uh I mean to a degree like look, do we need to see you know other people's sides of things and investigate? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The Bible literally tells us be ready to defend your faith. Um, so but that said, I agree. I'm with you. The bumper sticker absolutely ruined that word for us. Moving on. It is uh it is day 200 and something that John and I still do not have a um uncommon man. I don't know. I'll throw out a number out there.

Jon 2:57

That's not even I can't, I don't know. It's only May. It can't be. We have our coffee here.

Devin 3:03

Um and then we've got some pretty exciting things and topics coming up uh that we're gonna talk about coming up in the in in the next few weeks, and then uh maybe take a little break for a little bit.

Jon 3:16

Thinking about it. Thinking about it because you're moving. We're both gonna end up moving within like a week and a half of each other.

Devin 3:23

Yeah.

Jon 3:24

That's gonna throw a bit of a monkey wrench in things.

Devin 3:27

Yep.

Jon 3:28

Today, as we record this, we're behind Don't Judge Us. Today's Tuesday before this comes out. Uh-huh. I'm getting married Friday. Ha! Okay. I'm moving the following weekend, and you are potentially moving. Maybe the next weekend. Soonish after. We don't quite know yet, we're hoping, right? Yeah. So in light of that, and we're what I guess we're five months into this now. Yeah. At that point, we'll be close to six, close to about the six month mark. Yep. We're thinking about taking a little break and sitting down together several times over the course of a few. When we say a little break, I mean like no longer than a month. That's right. Like, no longer than that. We're not we're not quitting. Don't think we're quitting.

Devin 4:16

But just don't be surprised if you log in on a Thursday to go to your episode. I'll post something there. I'll post something on Instagram. Are you sure? Shut up. Okay. Anyways. So today, doubt. Um doubt. We've both been in the past.

Jon 4:31

Wait, I need to finish my thought. We're gonna sit down together several times and discuss where where we want to go in the future. Come up with my I mean, topics so far have not been hard to come up with at all. No, absolutely not. It's it's kind of but it's kind of easy for us. This is super easy, but that's all that's all God. Yeah, the topics themselves are all God. Yeah. But we we want to really pray and discuss over where where we want this to go.

Devin 5:01

And we want you to be included in that, our listeners, because listen, the reality of the situation is this John and I do this for you. So we want to hear what it is that you want us to talk about. If there's a a topic or a scripture or maybe a theological question that you have, like we would love to sit down and break that out for you. Uh so just send us a message, send us a chat, an email, whatever it is.

Jon 5:26

In the show notes, there's a send us a text button. Most of you that listen to this at this point probably know Devin and I personally. Send us a text, Instagram, Facebook, DM, whatever. Yeah. However, you can reach out to us.

Devin 5:37

Yep. And super excited, man. Uh, it's been a great start for this. I'm beyond pumped for what God's gonna do in the next season uh of this this podcast, this show, this whatever, this ministry. And I I'll

Why Doubt Sneaks Up On Men

Devin 5:55

tell you this, man. I love your brother. There's nobody else in the world I'd rather do this with. So thank you for all you do for this podcast. Our listeners, thank you. So all right, let's dive into this episode. Um so this week, when when we discussed kind of transitioning from anxiety into doubt, and I and I hate that word too, transitioning, because God knows that's now been distorted. But as as we move, my brain didn't even go there. As we move along from anxiety, there we go. As we move along from anxiety into doubt, uh, one of the one of the things I think that a lot of men, I think doubt is something that if you were to ask and poll a hundred men, 99 of them would say that they they struggle with doubts in their life. But you'd have to the other one is lying, by the way.

Jon 6:53

Most people would probably have to think about it for a minute, too, I think, because it's not something that's necessarily at the forefront of your mind. Like anxiety, right? That's something that you know that you're experiencing for the most part. I would I would think yeah, yeah. Same with anger, lots of emotions. I'm not saying doubts and emotion, but when you are doubting, it's you don't really it's not something you're thinking about, like, oh wait, I'm doubting Thomas right now. Sometimes you will. Sure. But most of the time I think those 99% of people would have to be like, Do I do I? And then they'd have to really think about it.

Devin 7:31

Exactly. So I mean, ask yourself this have you ever sat in church, you've prayed, you've read scripture, and you've always wondered if God was even listening. Do you feel yeah, yep, yep, same. Yeah, but I raise my hands. So those that are listening and not watching, warm breath, raising our hands. That's right. Um it makes you be then begin to wonder like, is my faith weak? Yeah. Uh am I the only man that deals with this? Here's the key point to this is doubt is very common. The problem is this it's rarely discussed amongst Christian men. Not today. That's what we're here to do.

Jon 8:10

It's rarely discussed in general, not even just among Christian men. It's rarely discussed, period.

Devin 8:17

It is, and that's really, I think, um, something that we've made as being a goal of this podcast has been to uh to bring forth to light things, topics, events, funny stuff, things like that that don't get talked about. And that's the problem. The enemy's loving every bit of it when you shelter and hide the things that you don't want anybody else to know about. The fact that you've wondered, is God even listening? The fact that you've wondered, Am I reading the scripture? You know, there's a there's a quote in one of the pirates of the Caribbean movies where the guy's one one of the pirates is reading the Bible and he goes, You can't even read. And the guy responds, he says, Yeah, but it's the Bible, you get credit for trying. And I'm like, I I no, I don't think it works like that, but uh, but anyways, I the thing about it is we have all done it. We have all sat down, read scripture, and then wondered, did it even matter? Did I get bonus points in heaven for trying to read the Bible? And the problem is this is many men feel pressure. This is a unique point, and I want to get your thought here. Many men feel pressure to appear spiritually strong all of the time.

Jon 9:43

Christian men do, yeah.

Devin 9:44

Sure. Yeah, men that men that care. I and I would say men that men that are not Christian feel pressure to appear strong, like they have their craft.

Jon 9:56

Not spiritually strong, but yeah, yeah, exactly.

Devin 9:58

Absolutely. So I and I and I'll give you a great example. Um, so my wife and I got an offer on our house, um I guess about two weeks ago. Maybe this was last week. And from the start of this process of getting ready to move, one of the things that we prayed

Relinquishing Control In Real Time

Devin 10:15

was we said God take control. And I we had gotten this great offer, full listing price. I mean, most of the closings was covered, like clear that God's hand was all over this, right? But for some reason I had doubts. And I was just like, man, I don't know what to do. I don't know if I should sign this. And it literally came, my my realtor was like, I need your answer by eight o'clock tonight. And it was seven o'clock, and my wife and I sat down. And we were like, All right, what do we do here? And Britney said, I'm gonna make this short and sweet. She said, I feel like by not signing, we're not relinquishing control over to God. She said, So we told God to take control over the process, right? I said, right? She goes, then you have to give him the control. Did she mic drop and walk out of the room? No, but I should have. No, but here's what I did. I stood up, I said, stay right there. I'll be right back. And I walked to the front of the house, I got on my computer, I signed the document, and we formally accepted the offer on our house. We didn't even, we don't uh to this day, as we sit here recording this, in theory, I don't have another house right now. We do have an offer that's pending. Um, and we're but we're seeing the Lord provide. And so what I loved about that was my wife saw the opportunity to remind me of just like you've got to relinquish the control. If you're gonna pray for something, then whenever it happens, you can't bail. It's okay to have doubt, but it's not okay to just not trust.

Jon 11:47

Now, that being that being said, I think we I think I've mentioned this before. Uh, and I've heard this, heard this growing up, like you have to put feet to your faith. Yes, you have to have faith. When you say, God, I need this, you put faith in God. That doesn't mean you get to just sit there and do nothing. Yeah. Right? You have to try, but however, at the same time, you have to trust God in the process and constant prayer, constant talking to God. Where do we go next? Is this the right choice? Is is this you or is it not? Right.

Devin 12:23

Exactly. And and and I think to me, um that's why I always argue, men, having a spiritually sound, spiritually strong faith uh in both partners of a marriage is beyond crucial.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Oh, yeah.

Devin 12:37

Um, I think if you don't, then I mean we we ran through the statistics a few episodes ago, but I think if you don't, it's just it makes it that much harder. I would have never thought about those things. When but when my wife said the word relinquish control, it was like God Himself spoke through her in that moment. It was a very holy moment in her house, and I was so proud of her for that. And uh so yeah, go Brittany. But as we as we discuss today, we're gonna talk about how to face doubt honestly without walking away from faith. Okay. So I think to start there, we have to define it correctly. Doubt is not the same as rebellion. Okay. And here's the biggest I'm gonna break down for you the difference between doubt and unbelief. Doubt means that you you have questions about it, you're uncertain, you're wrestling with whether or not something is true, right, good, whatever. That is doubt. Unbelief is a hardened refusal.

Jon 13:41

To reference the example from that we talked about a second ago, sitting in church wondering if God's listening to you or not is not unbelief. It's doubt. It's doubt. Because if you didn't believe to begin with, you wouldn't care if God was listening or not.

Devin 13:56

But see, here's the problem doubt has a fuel. Fear? Fear. Fear. Fear fuels doubt and unbelief. It fuels uh fear and disappointment, I would say, fuel doubt more than anything. And you know, think about it this way. You you've prayed for you prayed for something and it didn't happen. And so you're disappointed. And so then you begin, well, God, are you even listening? God, are you even there? God, are you even real? And your mind just begins to spiral. So think about it that way. It fuels fear and disappointment fuel that doubt. The fear that I had in signing that document was that in theory, my family is going to be homeless in a month. And my wife told me I've got to relinquish control. And that was that was the wrestling with it and whether or not we should do it. And then we went back to we've been back. We I bet, dude, we have looked at 20 or 30 houses. I mean, I'm tired of going to houses. I bet. And we've been back to one, and it's the one that we put an offer in on, which we're pending fingers crossed, will be accepted. Hey, maybe the uh maybe the homeowners listen to the podcast. What do you think the odds of that are? I don't know. Sell your house on Pebble Drive. Anyways, biblical examples.

Doubt Vs Unbelief And What Fuels It

Devin 15:30

Thomas. Yeah, he's the first one, right? Doubting Thomas.

Jon 15:38

There was somebody after our episode uh with the questions, and I said I would go back and I don't know, have lunch with Paul or something like that. Uh-huh. There was somebody that's that texted me and said I would do I would go back and see Thomas so I could slap him upside the head and be like, why did you doubt so much?

Devin 15:57

Thomas, I'm glad you showed up to today's lunch. Wham. Why? Why are you doubting? Idiot! Did he give you a reason to doubt?

Jon 16:06

Did him walking on water not do it for you, but and that just goes to show you if even someone that witnessed things that Jesus did on earth still struggled with still struggled with doubt.

Devin 16:21

Yeah. Like it's crazy. So why do you think you're exempt that you're not going to? I think another one is David. I think David struggled in the Psalms. We see him wrestling with God numerous times. Yeah. In in the Psalms, right? There's several Psalms where David literally just sounds like a whiny little girl. Lots of lamenting. Lots of lamenting. And it just I there were several times like growing up, I would literally message somebody who was a spiritual leader to me and be like, why does this dude just gripe so much? So I mean, David did it. I think another one, John the Baptist, right? Doubted while he was imprisoned. Uh Peter, one of my favorite examples, Peter doubted. Shout out to episode one. Yeah. No, that's right. That's right. Getting I never thought of that. I didn't even think. Yeah, shout out to episode one, getting out of the boat. Yep. Do you know that every single time I get in and out of a boat now, that's what I think of. I think of that episode. I don't think I've gotten in or out of a boat since then. That sucks for you, man. Um, but I will say this. I'm good. I also think about something you said back on that first episode that people tried to pray themselves out of a situation that they behaved themselves into. I remember hearing that from you when we were sitting down to record that first episode for like the 18th time. And I remember I was like, oh my God, there's so much truth there. Yeah, there really is.

Jon 17:48

So uh I mean, do you have any any examples here like with Peter the or or maybe John the Baptist that you look at and you go, well, John the Baptist, I I can imagine getting towards the end of God's plan for you on this earth with all of the the stuff he went through and then just getting to prison to get beheaded and like is this is this really it? Like is this really uh is this really the end of it? And then Peter, um we've we've talked about that, but he got out of the boat. He did he walked on water and then for some reason I don't know, he probably freaked out, like holy crap, I'm walking on water right now. This can't be real, and then started to sink. I can only imagine something like that probably went through his head, but um some of the strongest believers in scripture had moments of deep uncertainty.

Devin 18:40

They did. Why do you think Christian men will often try to hide doubt? We talked about it a minute ago. They want to be strong, they want to appear strong. We're supposed to have all the answers, right? Excuse me. One of the things that I think about is like whenever I saw that about um men are supposed to have all the answers, I was like, wait a second. Yeah, no, that's actually true. Like men are the bug killers. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We're the we're the takeout the trashers, we're the if something's broke, fix it. We're typically the ones that have to go in and um provide the most in the household as far as the income goes. Uh everything that's biblical. Right, right. Exactly. But the problem is in today's society of weak men, then they turn around and they they begin to you know offload all of that. What did the dishes, what can you get the trash? Why don't you be a freaking dude?

Jon 19:40

Yeah, grow up, be a man. Yeah, for real. It it you have to take care of your family above all else. You are called to do that as a man. If you are married and you have kids, or if you don't have kids, take care of your family.

Devin 19:55

But that that fuels we're so because we're supposed to have all the answers, what we don't want to do is we don't want to look weak in any way. No man on this earth that I know of

Biblical Men Who Wrestled With Doubt

Devin 20:05

wants to appear weak. Right. That they say, you know what, I'm fine looking like an absolute sissy girl.

Jon 20:10

And some sometimes you can tell if you're talking to somebody, you can tell if they're putting on a bit of a front.

Devin 20:15

That leads to a very dangerous place, the enemy's favorite place. And it's his favorite playground to go have a field day on you. Isolation.

Jon 20:28

Yeah, I've heard uh I don't know, a million times in my life. If the devil can't make you bad, he'll make you busy. Yeah. When you get busy, you sometimes end up being isolated as well. Yeah. And the people have also heard that idle hands are the devil's playground. I guess there's some truth to that too. Actually, idle minds. Personal experience, I've experienced right the opposite.

Devin 20:54

I think it's idle minds are the devil's playground. Yeah, maybe that's it. I I think I think the devil absolutely loves an idle mind. But I think both are accurate. Right, but you gotta remember the opposite. You gotta remember the enemy literally has the playbook to your life on how to beat you. Yeah. Okay. Sort of unfortunate. So sure, but the greatest thing is we have the ability and the tools and the resources to not only rem put him in his place, but to remind him of his future. Absolutely. Right. So I think the the other thing that doubt leads to in looking spiritually awake and things like that is it leads to what we call performance Christianity. Which you kind of referenced a second ago. Yeah, you're just showing up. Uh and here's the thing I think a lot of men do this, and that's such a dangerous game to play. Like, we get to do this. We get number one, focus on the fact that we get to go to church. There are still people in 2026 who fear for their lives and put their lives on the line because they go to church.

Jon 21:52

Yeah, there wasn't, hold on. I don't remember when it was. It wasn't that long ago. There was this like online secret church. thing do you say did you say about hear about that no yeah it was it was I don't know Google Secret Church there was this online like church service sort of thing for people across the world that can't go to church awesome yeah it was something but the reality is the reality is this is there are still people whose lives are being put on the light for that right yeah and and the problem is is we have men in here who go man I work five days this week I really just want to rest today get up and be a man and take your family to church brother yeah go rest afterwards yeah it you're talking that being said take take a Sabbath for the love of God I'm not saying yeah and I'm not saying don't take a Sabbath I take a Sabbath what I am saying is kill it with the excuses of why you can't take two hours to go spiritually fuel your family. Yeah that's that's uh I could literally get on a soapbox about performance Christianity we get to do this let me touch on the the get to thing there for just a second go for it you're absolutely right that all that is when if if you go to church and you serve you nine times out of ten you've probably heard that before this we get to do this that's really what that is is a perspective shift because there are some days where you're like uh I signed up for this and today I I really I really don't I really don't want to do it and all that is is your perspective needs to change right it's you'd be you'd be hard pressed to convince me that every single pastor out there that preaches week in and week out especially the there's a lot of churches that still do three different services a week right Sunday morning Sunday night and Wednesday you'd be hard pressed to convince me that every single one of them are stoked every single week there's gotta be a week a a day every now and then where they're like I'm not really feeling it today. And that really have to shift their perspective they need to shift their perspective pray like God I ain't got it you get you're gonna have to do this one for me. I need I need to mention yeah but what it is is it I just wanted to say it's a it's a perspective thing.

Devin 24:20

Absolutely it is we have a so that's actually really where cultivate was birthed out of like cultivate church. It was birthed out of uh originally before it was a church it was meant for pastors struggling like they wanted to provide a resource for pastors and they did they would send pastors on retreats and things like that to just be able to spiritually get away and that's why actually as you walk out onto the platform um from our church there's a back little hallway and there's a there's a sign on the wall it says never just another Sunday right we get to do this it's never just another Sunday we get to do this and we get to carry this over it also leads to burnout yeah you know burnout in in in Christianity you get burned out you know I I dealt with burnout whenever I was in full-time ministry um I'd never seen it before so I didn't really know what to you know how to prepare for it. It's very real. My very first Sunday so for those of you that don't know I helped launch Cultivate Church uh not in a formal way I was not on on a staff or anything like that but I helped lead in the children's ministry area and then God called me away for a few years um met the girl I'm now married to shortly after marrying her he ushered me into ministry um for three or four years something like that and I was extremely burnt out when we left we actually came back to cultivate um and I remember that very first Sunday like I left I left church that day and my wife and I drove across the street to Burger King which is funny because we've never done it since and I've been back four years.

Jon 25:56

But um we left we went across the street and my wife I did not say a word now for those of you that know me you know I'm not one that's short for words I didn't say anything when we left she looked at me and she was like what's

Why We Hide Doubt And Isolate

Jon 26:10

wrong and I said I didn't realize how hard I am how burned out I am it led to a silent struggle with prayer uh I think for a lot of men so so to say that like burnout is real but you need to talk about it with somebody there's nothing wrong with struggling yeah you gotta have somebody you can talk to about it doubt will often lead to silent struggles with things like prayer maybe you don't know how to pray pornography looking at things you shouldn't on the internet disappointment suffering unanswered prayers all those things all fuel doubt simply put like this a hidden doubt becomes more dangerous than an exposed doubt exactly it does talk about if you're struggling with um any sort of hidden sin any sort of hidden sin that you have to confess that to someone yes confess it to God but you've got to confess that to someone if you want to overcome it that's right 110% I don't want to just skip past that hidden doubt becomes more dangerous.

Devin 27:22

In other words this when you keep it to yourself you're literally adding fuel to that fire. And it's just gonna get worse. When you expose it you put a name on it you put a label on it that it's something that you deal with look we all deal with crap. We've all got skeletons in the closet that we don't want to talk about the things we don't want to do the things that that we say man if they knew this there's no way God could love me because of all because I've done this this and this. Not true what if I were to tell you that there's a God out there who sees and understands that so what do you what do you feel like actually causes on well I mean we've talked about fear and disappointment and things like that.

Jon 28:10

Like talk about the different cut types so to speak so the first thing the first thing that comes to mind that we kind of talked about earlier was uh with God are you even listening you pray and you feel like your prayers aren't getting answered whether they are getting answered in the background or not or if um they just haven't been answered yet maybe it's not time yet maybe the answer is just just hang in there. That's the war that's like the worst answer to your prayer in my opinion. Hang in there like God I need some help here like yeah I got you just hang in there. If I I told you about what happened to me one time right I one I told you all sorry specifically specifically regarding this I don't I don't I don't with the cell phone and Siri okay so with my job I have like a whole work phone which is nice but annoying at times I was on the phone and man I wish I could remember what the scripture was that came up but I was on the phone and my work phone was sitting next to me and for some reason it thought I said Siri and whatever it was I was talking about the search results that it brought up were sh the middle one was a scripture. I cannot remember what that scripture was right now. I wish I could not but this was like months ago too but the middle one was scripture and I was like Siri hush and then I and I as the thing went away I was like wait a minute was that a scripture the heck and then I said I repeated whatever I had said again and it came back up and I hit it and that I hung up the phone I was talking to Laura I hung up I was like I gotta call you back and I read through that it was a you've heard of the Bible project yeah it was a Bible project article more or less the the answer to the prayer that I had had like God I need help with this was hang in there I got you just hang in there and trust me and I was like what the heck it was crazy things when you see God move like that. Yeah it was it was bizarre it really was um but anyway sorry um intellectual doubt so he's the different types yeah different types intellectuals one of them questions about scripture science and science and faith um evil and yeah what if a good why does a good God handle evil and suffering all that stuff don't talk about that I mean the reality is we're all evil the reality is um the Bible tells us for all have sinned and we're yeah well I mean in order for good to exist evil has to exist too that's right you can't have one without the other yeah I guess if evil didn't exist then good wouldn't be good it would just exist be. Yeah it would just be you wouldn't know that it's good and then the the other one is is church hypocrisy and I and I want to I want to sit here for just a second because I I had a conversation with somebody not too too long ago that they told me their exact words that they don't go to church because they don't want to sit in a room full of hypocrites and I and and I and like what what was it Gandhi said I love your I will I love your I love your religion I hate your people yeah I hate your Christians right and and the reality is yeah there's a lot of people on Sunday morning that go to church every single Sunday mornings that are going to stand at the gates of heaven and God's going to say I never knew you that is the reality my simple posed question back to them would you rather sit in a room full of sick or in a room full of hypocrites or spend an eternity with them take it back yeah mic drop episode over you know so then then I think the second the second kind of doubt there's an emotional doubt uh things like trauma loss abandonment depression unanswered prayers we've talked about can we before we move on can we talk about the hypocrisy thing a little bit yeah oh sorry I didn't know you had a thought I mean it occurred it occurred as you um yes that happens sure it's not everybody there are so my dad's the pastor I've been he's as growing up he pastored I don't know how many churches we I there's there were several right he was I don't know what God's plan for my dad was when I was growing up I guess we would go to a church that had like 10 people and we would leave and there was like 150 and I'm like we're going somewhere else like okay cool and like seven like all right where where are we going now? We're moving again cool but there was a there was a man in one of those churches that remember me talking about Bill say okay was that the last episode or the one before whatever the one before I think the guy that was in prison for murdering his wife when he didn't because he tried to get out of the mafia yeah yeah that's this is the church where I met that guy he was I I don't know if my dad knows this he will now he was the one that was preaching when it clicked in my head that I was like oh crap I I have to I actually have to do these things that I've heard my whole life I was like 12 right and uh but in that church one of not long before we ended up leaving

Performance Christianity And Burnout

Jon 33:40

there was a guy that had been there he's a super old dude there was a guy that had been there for years right he was a deacon elder whatever but he told my dad he's like no this is my church and we're gonna do it my way and we we weren't there very much longer but sure of course not there are people like that yeah right but that's not everywhere and you can't avoid being worshiping and being around God's people just because you're afraid you're gonna be around a bunch of people like that. Yes they exist yes they're they're out there but you still need to have a relationship with God and part of my my biggest thing on going to church is if you don't surround yourself with the right people it's gonna be a lot harder.

Devin 34:31

And I think it's in good you're absolutely right and I think that it's important to remember everybody that's in that room with you on a Sunday morning always on their own faith journey. Yeah everybody's on a journey everybody's on their own path that is unique that God has put them there. And instead of asking yourself why am I here with these people why am I here with a bunch of hypocrites ask yourself what you can do to help them. Ask yourself what how could they help you?

Jon 34:57

Yeah and how many of those people yeah maybe they're being a little hypocritical but how many of those people are sitting there knowing what the right answer is what it what did Paul say why do I why do I know the right I don't remember the exact words but just something along the lines of why do I know the things that I should do why do I know what I should do but I still don't do it or something along you know what yeah I know I know what you're talking about. They know the right answer but then on Monday comes around and they don't do the right thing they don't there was a I don't know some random Instagram reel I saw this pastor called up somebody in his congregation and she starts cussing him out and he's like this is brother whoever whatever his name was and her tune just changed completely. She's like oh sorry and then it was bless this bless that so on and so forth right yeah so there are people like that but they they know the right answer. Sure and they're all on their own journey exactly they're on their own their own faith journey there. So instead of just avoiding like you just said what can what can we do to help them?

Devin 36:03

I used to hate whenever I was whenever I was in full-time ministry I used to hate it when somebody asked me what did you do for a living and I didn't want to tell them I was a pastor. Do you know why? Because within the next five minutes I was going to get their entire life story. They were never going to be themselves again. They were going to be a fake polished version and I would typically get their church attendance record. My favorite is oh I'm having church at home how's that working out for you um and I'm not saying that you know online church and things like that is not a good thing. There is a place for it you you got a sick kid or you're sick or whatever don't go.

Jon 36:46

Oh yeah when I used to sure travel and just like I don't really have much of a choice.

Devin 36:51

Yeah exactly well in some some places I did I mean if I was like overseas somewhere yeah sure but then but then aside from the intellectual doubt there's emotional doubt things like trauma loss abandonment depression unanswered prayers things like that. All those doubts are very are very real and they exist but where it separates and I think things be things begin to change is when you let the doubt turn into spiritual fatigue and we talk about how we're spiritually exhausted. You know you were talking about pastors earlier and needing that time needing that break um I'm so thankful that our church is a part of a body of believers that literally believes in pastors taking a break and they send them away I think it's like the entire month of June or July like our pastors aren't even there. They bring in a bunch of guest speakers I think is what it is. Summer Sundays. Yeah summer Sundays where they they have a bunch of guest speakers because it gives our pastors a chance to refuel and to separate to create and not allow for spiritual fatigue to get in uh then you get into sin cycles right so when we're spiritually fatigued we get into sin cycles we we begin to rationalize out well well I only looked at pornography once today yeah you know or I only uh I I went to church twice I made it half the month or I went the Sunday after Easter that's a bonus point right God and then a lot of the speaking of the sin cycles a lot of times things that you struggle with I don't know pornography for instance those those are the types of things that the enemy will use to he'll bring it right back up. No doubt and what that does is that leads to isolation from the Christian community. That leads to isolation away from other believers and that is why I'm saying if you're willing if you are able and you are healthy you butt needs to be in a church and it needs to be in a Bible believing life giving faith growing biblically based church is it one that teet actually teaches the Bible teaches scripture and how to apply it better to your life and simply put like this sometimes what feels like a faith problem it's really just exhaustion grief or disappointment a lot of times we we think man I'm just so tired I'm spiritually exhausted and then Easter rolls around and everybody's like you know I got I got my new dress I got my new my new whatever yeah I'm ready to go I'm ready to go to church Sunday I got my Bible in hand right and and then the problem is it goes on the uh on the shelf at home and it collects dust until Christmas. Yeah key key word there is you said a lot of times sometimes it is uh a faith problem right and I guess I guess what I'm saying is is we have to remember that doubt uh that you feel like is a faith problem which really you're just exhausted you're spiritually you're physically you're mentally exhausted you you're maybe you're grieving maybe you're in that that grieving cycle where you're just disappointed maybe what you had built up for for what that you thought was God and what God looked like and and it didn't turn out to be this or you didn't get this prayer or whatever like that answered doesn't mean that God's not real. It doesn't mean that God's not listening.

Jon 40:17

And I think that's something that personally you

Church Hurt, Hypocrisy, And Honest Questions

Jon 40:20

have to explore on your own because like I said it could be a faith problem. It could be it could be a multitude of things but you just have to know that it's not necessarily a faith problem. If you're already strong in your faith and you're praying every day if you actually have a relationship with the Lord then you have to you have to know that it's not necessarily a faith problem. There are it could be exhaustion grief disappointment it could it could be a lot of things. This is not a one size fits all sort of thing it could be a multitude of things. That's right.

Devin 41:00

So we have to come up with healthy ways to handle the doubt.

Jon 41:05

And we've already talked about one talk about it.

Devin 41:08

Bring it in someone not with just anybody not with just anybody yeah no no no it can't be with just anybody you can you can't go to the homeless dude at the end of the street corner and go man I'm having doubts with my faith. Counsel. Yes wise counsel Bible says this wise counsel is found in the counsel of many so find your spiritual advisors your your faith leaders are does their lives match are they worthy of being a spiritual advisor in your life match that bring it to the life or to the light and stop pretending I think the second one you have to stay connected while you're questioning that sometimes that's hard.

Jon 41:51

Not sometimes all the time brother now I've been through I've been through seasons where for some some reason one in particular about I don't know a year ago now one in particular that for some reason during this particular season that I was in it I found it easier to just trust in God and I I think that came after I like you talked about earlier relinquished control. Yeah I found it much easier so not necessarily it's not always harder. I used to think that until I experienced the opposite of it but many times yeah it is it is difficult to when you're doubting and questioning everything it's difficult to even pray.

Devin 42:39

Yeah it is but here's a here's an important thing to remember doubt grows in isolation yeah dang that's good doubt grows in isolation no question when you when you are by yourself you're going to continue to you were you then become your own worst enemy like we said earlier it gets worse that's right if you isolate you have to remember also whenever it comes to doubt and hypocrites and things like that you have to remember to separate God from flawed people every what did I say earlier all have sinned and fallen short.

Jon 43:12

Every single one of us from the moment you're born but but here's the thing to remember and I remember I had a pastor one time tell me this he said well church hurt isn't even real and I seriously wanted to slap him it is it's very real now that being said some people talk about church hurt and that's not what they experience it gets taken way out of context.

Devin 43:32

Yeah it does you have to remember sinful people will behave like sinful people right the reality is we're all sinful okay but the thing to remember is that church did not hurt you people hurt you God did not hurt you people hurt you and some of those people who say church hurt people hurt me they did it to themselves. Some of them did but you have to also remember this this is probably One of the craziest things that I hear all the time from both believers and non-believers that I will just I will never for the life of me begin to understand is you look at I just totally lost my train of thought. Like totally it is gone. Gone gone. Church hurt I'll I'll find it in a minute. Human failure is not God's failure. That's right. God did not hurt you, people did. Oh, oh, oh, oh, it's back. Hurting people hurt people. Oh, yeah. You have to remember that. God didn't hurt you. A hurting person hurt you. Right. But the problem is God catches all the blame. Human failure is not God's failure, as you said. So what do you do? You have to go back to the foundations. Whenever you're whenever you're doubting, what do you do? You have to ask yourself, why did I believe this in the first place? What experiences have shaped my faith? What what have I been through that has helped get me to the person that plays the man that I am today? And then ask yourself this very, very important key question. I ask myself this almost every week, John. Who is Jesus to me today?

Jon 45:17

Write that down. Something, yes, having something like a gratitude list and also write down the things that God has already done for you. Like a blessing. Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes every person listening to this has been through seasons that God pulled them out of. I guarantee it. Whether you realize it or not, he did. Go back, find remember those things because after they're over, and you're like, oh, thank God that's over. Thank you, Lord. And then you move on with your life. And we tend to kind of forget about it. Remember those things. Go back and remember them.

Devin 46:02

Talk about prayers when you feel numb. Reading scripture without emotional highs and obedience during uncertainty. Practice your faith before your feelings. That's that's truly what's going to set you apart.

Jon 46:18

And the prayer when you feel numb, when you don't really feel like praying, when you don't feel like you have anything to pray for, that's a discipline thing, right? So even when you don't want to pray, when you're like, God's not gonna listen to me anyway, that sort of thing, pray anyway. Pray anyway. Pray when you feel that numbness. Put your faith before your face. And if and if you are struggling with something, be specific with your prayer. Yeah, that's good. Like, God help me through this. Okay. What is this? Yeah. What what is this? What do you want the outcome? Be be specific. Be very specific. Be as specific as your four-year-old is about what Pokemon cards they want. And maybe maybe force too younger. You get the point. Yeah. About what toy they want. They know specifically what it is they want.

Devin 47:06

Oh no, my three-year-old tells me that she wants the green milk cup. Right. She's specific. And if I give her blue, she'll be God in heaven. I have sinned and I'm

Practical Ways To Handle Doubt

Devin 47:15

going. I it is over. All right. Life is over. Her life's done. It's over. We just restart the day. Anyways, a quote that I pulled for this episode. Faith is not the absence of questions. Faith is choosing to trust God while the questions still exist. We're all gonna have questions. Faith is not the absence of the questions themselves. Faith is choosing. God, I trust you no matter what, through it all, even though those questions still exist. God, I don't know if you're real, but I'm gonna trust that you are. Well, I mean I mean, I I know that, but that's what I'm saying. Is like people out there could say that. God, I don't know that you care about my job, but I'm gonna believe that you do. The question is still there, but you're still gonna believe it. Right. Faith is not the absence of the questions themselves, it's choosing to trust God thoroughly.

Jon 48:15

And that's that's exactly it's exactly what faith is. You can't so I can't sit here and prove on paper that God exists, but I can show you a ton of evidence, and I can I can provide you with evidence in my own life. That's and so I have faith that God's gonna be there through the storms.

Devin 48:39

That's right. And so I guess uh our our encouragement to kind of wrap this up and put a bow on this, right? Understand this doubt does not disqualify you from the kingdom of God. Okay. God is not intimidated by honest questions. He already knows you have the questions. That's right.

Jon 48:59

Just ask them.

Devin 49:00

The Bible literally says, I know the things that you pray for, but we still pray for them. You still gotta ask. You still gotta ask. You know, it's the old saying, you have not because you ask not, right? Now, I've I I've asked for a million dollars. I haven't gotten it, but I know that God's still there. I know God's real because I see him in other evidences, in other evidence and areas of my life. Um give you what you need to put you where he needs you. And and remember this God gives you what you need, not what you want. Right. That's crucial.

Jon 49:31

He'll give you what you need to use you where you need to be used.

Devin 49:35

If you think about it this way if God gave you everything that you wanted, dude, your life would suck. Yeah. You think it'd be awesome, but that would suck.

Jon 49:46

Yeah.

Devin 49:46

Because you then get okay, you get all the desire. No, no, no, no. I tell God all the time, God, I want what you want for my life. I want what you want for my family, for Brittany, for my daughters. That's what I want. And and to remember, you know, look, it's all in scripture. A faith that has never been tested, this is not, but this is just a good quote point. A faith that has never been tested is usually a faith that's never grown. Yeah, I mean, how can you grow?

Jon 50:20

We grow in the seasons of strife. Right. It's the same. We use the gem analogy again. How do your muscles grow? Are you getting torn down and rebuilt?

Devin 50:29

And rebuilt. Well, some scripture that that backs it, you know. I I think it was um Paul that said this in Mark 9, 24. He said, God, I believe, but help my unbelief. That wouldn't have been that wouldn't have been Paul. No, no, it was not Paul. It wasn't, it wasn't Mark that said that. I don't remember who said it. But, anyways, it I believe, but help my unbelief. Right. It's okay that you don't believe in certain areas. It's not okay to not discuss it. It's not okay to not address it. Help my unbelief. And so I guess it kind of here's a closing challenge for you. Identify some hidden doubts in your life, talk about them that you with somebody that you trust this week, put a date on the calendar, call them for coffee, and then go to the owner of the coffee shop and tell them you listen to this epic podcast called The Uncommon Man, and uh they need a call, they need a coffee sponsor.

Jon 51:22

Um and and I'll say this if you our goal here is to be uncommon. Yeah. And these these things right here will is exactly just that. The common thing to do is to just hide it and not do anything about it.

Devin 51:39

Spend some intentional time with God this week, honestly, not performatively, not as a checklist, and address those areas of doubt. Remember this: you don't have to choose between honesty and faith. Real faith can survive hard questions. Point blank in the period. Yep. Mic drop, episode over.

Weekly Challenge, Prayer, And Closing

Devin 52:00

Let's pray. Father, we love you. God, thank you so much for this platform. God, our prayer, mine and John's prayer, is that you would be glorified. God, that you would hide John and I behind the cross, that it's not our words, it's yours. God, that ultimately we bring you honor and glory through everything that we say and do. Help us in our areas of unbelief, in our areas of doubt. Forgive us that we doubt you, oh God, that we doubt your mighty healing hand, your good and perfect plan that you have for our lives. God, we honor you, we love you, we thank you in Jesus' name. Amen.

Jon 52:33

Thanks for listening. Remember to like, share, and subscribe. If you know someone who would enjoy this, please pass it along. You can follow us on Instagram at uncommon.man or reach out at theuncommonman.podcast at gmail.com. Keep pursuing excellence and above all, pursue practice.