Your Voice, You Must Trust: Confidence & Communication with Zoe Carmichael

View Podcast Disclosures here: http://bit.ly/4jWGPF4

What does it really mean to find your voice—and trust it?

In this episode of Women & the Businesses They Own, I sit down with speaking coach Zoe Carmichael to explore the power of communication, confidence, and showing up fully in who you are. Whether you’re leading a business, navigating conversations, or simply learning to express yourself more clearly, your voice plays a bigger role than you may realize.

Zoe shares her journey into speaking and coaching, along with the mindset shifts that help women move from hesitation to confidence. We talk about overcoming self-doubt, reframing fear, and learning how to communicate with clarity and intention—not perfection.

This conversation is a reminder that your voice doesn’t have to be the loudest in the room to be the most impactful… it just has to be yours.

Here’s what we explore:

•  Why confidence in speaking starts long before the words come out 
•  The difference between perfection and presence 
•  How to navigate fear and self-doubt in communication 
•  Practical ways to strengthen your voice in everyday conversations 
•  The role of authenticity in leadership and connection 

Here’s what we are meant to take with us today:
Your voice is not something you earn—it’s something you learn to trust. And when you do, it has the power to change not only how others hear you… but how you see yourself.

This podcast is presented by Summit Wealth Partners, LLC, a registered investment adviser that only conducts business in jurisdictions where it is properly registered or is excluded or exempted from registration requirements. Registration as an investment adviser is not an endorsement of the firm by securities regulators and does not mean that the adviser has achieved a specific level of skill or ability. The firm is not engaged in the practice of law or accounting.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Women and the Businesses They Own, the podcast where we explore the journeys of remarkable women who are building businesses with per passion, purpose, and impact. Each episode shares the story behind the work, the challenges, the lessons, and the courage it takes to create something wonderful. Today I'm joined by Zoe, excuse me, Zoe Carmichael. We're going to talk about that. Zoe is a public speaking coach, facilitator, teacher, and trainer who helps leaders organize their thoughts, communicate clearly, and deliver their message with confidence and impact. Through her work, she helps individuals move past procrastination and self-doubt to step into their full potential as speakers. Zoe, thank you for being here. And please tell us a little bit more about yourself personally and professionally. Sure, great.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Well, thank you, Sherry, so much for having me. I'm delighted that you saw value in me sharing my story because I don't think we always get the opportunity to do that, especially women. So thank you for the invitation. As you know, you and I go way, way, way back, known you for many years and have always admired you and respected your work in the community. So this is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Uh you're welcome. So uh I've been in Grand Rapids for a longer than I can remember. Um I came out here to go to Calvin College and I graduated and met my husband after college and um still here.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

No nights, no nights, go JR.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Calvin University now. It's college back then. Um I cannot, I still call it Calvin College, it just flows. My my my my t-shirts still say college, so they're vintage now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Well, I don't know if you know, my son goes there. And so I was just like, okay, I gotta call a what?

SPEAKER_03 1:50

I know, right? What I gotta change my monogram now, you know. Yeah. Uh but no, so I I live here in GR, uh, right near Britain Village. Uh my husband and I uh believe it or not, this is gonna blow your mind, Sherry. So next year in 2027, we'll be married 30 years.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Oh my gosh. Oh, well, I mean, applauding you. I mean, 30 is a long time, but there's a remarkable journey behind those 30 years, especially as people say today, where we easily can just discard without working through the tough stuff. I mean, I applaud you.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Thank you, thank you. And we've got twin girls. Uh, so my girls are 22 years old and they're both students at Grand Valley. So close, but not too close. So we love it.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Yeah, I was gonna say you're empty nesters, they're both gone, doing their own thing. So, where were you born?

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Yeah, so this is crazy. I was actually born in the state of Indiana. Uh, my parents, uh, my dad was in graduate school there, but I grew up out in Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh, and they met at Calvin. And uh growing up out there, I was like, Calvin College, what's that? And I was a public school kid, but you know, it's a Christian school, and I said, well, that sounds interesting. So I was they supported me to come out to Grand Rapids and I loved it. Calvin was a wonderful fit-for-me, right time, right place. I really enjoyed it there. And then I got a master's degree from Western Michigan University, and uh Grant and I have just just settled here and raised our kids here, and now it's I don't want to move. So yeah, it'd be hard to move now. Very, very hard. I know. Our our house was small, but it's just the right size now for just us and two cats, so it's great.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

So are your parents still in Pennsylvania?

SPEAKER_03 3:43

No, they moved to Ohio. Uh my dad and mom and dad are both retired, and they're in Ohio, and uh they're snowbirds, so they just got back from Florida. They like to spend the winters there. And uh we're very close. We FaceTime all the time. I just I just love it. My sister is near my parents, so uh we talk all the time. Thank you, iPhone. Love, love, love the FaceTime. Thank you, iPhone. My mom is so cute, she's like, it's like you're right there. Like I know, I love it. You're right there. So you have one sister. What's that? You have one sister? I just have one, I'm the oldest of two girls. And so uh when my husband and I uh found out we were having twins, I thought, okay, so I'm an oldest, I have a younger sister. My husband, Grant, who you know, of course, is the oldest, and he is a younger sister. So when we were finding out, you know, the the the babies, I was like, please, just one girl, just just a girl. I don't know what to do with boys. And when we found out we were having two girls, I was like, yes, I screamed in the doctor's office, I said, Yes, I won the lottery. And my husband's like, Okay, my hand is numb now, but I was like so excited. So thrilled to have two girls because I know about girls, I don't know much about boys. So hats off to moms of boys out there.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah, no, I I understand that feeling because I had raised a stepdaughter once. I had two other stepdaughters when I met Todd, and then I had my own daughter. Yeah. When we when I had my son, I was like, just let it be a girl. I just I get this, I know, I know what to expect. I know they want to dress up, I know they're gonna watch Disney or whatever, right? Me and the princesses. I just felt like, and then I got this this young man that came out, and I was just like, Oh, what is no, it it is so funny, and our two cats, they're girls.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

So my one that's a fish out of the water, he's super outnumbered. He's working downstairs with his door closed. He's like, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

So tell me, because you said 30 years next year, yeah, your girls are only 22, so that means you and Grant had a lot of time together before you decide to even have kids. I mean, what was that early time like in your marriage? And I mean, why did you wait so long? And what was your career doing at the time when you graduated from Western? And is that where you met Grant? So I'm gonna pack it all in and you can just hit us. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

No, no, so we met, you're gonna love this. So I'm going to age myself a little bit, but after I graduated from college, we Grant and I met at Woodland Creek Apartments. Okay. And that was the swinging singles time. This was, you know, we got married in 1997. So uh we met actually in 1993, 1994.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Uh, and this was, you know, going down for the happy hours and you know, the singles and the mingles. And um, he actually graduated from Carnegie Mellon and his first job was in Grand Rapids, and I had just graduated, and I was working for you're gonna love this. Um, I'm gonna again age myself. I was working for the uh Yellow Pages Advertising, American News, yes, advertising.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

For all of you young listeners, that's the phone book. We use that to put all of our little kids on when they needed a boost at the table.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

My kids are like, what's a yellow pages? Oh, is that the doorstop that we use over on the yeah, that's exactly uh the thing that goes right to recycling. Uh so uh this is our phone book now, of course, right? Yes, absolutely. But it was great, and so um I had I was dating somebody else at the time when we met, and uh I was really, you know, likes like spending time with Grant, and I realized I kind of like this guy a little bit more than this guy. So I ended up actually breaking it off, and then he and I were friends for five years, and you know, we dated, you know, during that time, and we realized, well, I I I think this might be it for us. Like I think, you know, we took our time. I was working, he was working, and I went back to school, got the master's degree, and I was able to say, go away, leave me alone. I need time to study. And so uh we did, we dated for five years before we got married, and then uh we did struggle to uh to get pregnant. Uh that was an emotional roller coaster for us, but uh it took us a little while, but we were blessed with the twin girls, and it's it's awesome. Family of four. I'm from a family of four, he's from a family of four, and so uh it's been it's been great. We're he's my best friend.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

That's awesome. That's awesome that you can say that. And when you had your twins, you know you're like just one pregnancy and done. We're like right, we're done. I'm sure that there was a few obstacles in their their growing up years and the balance, but one or two.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

One or two.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

One or two. No, it's it is funny because they they're fraternal, so they look different, act different, completely different personalities, so different. And people say, you know, oh, they're sisters, and they're like, Oh, they're twins. Like, you would never know. They are completely different people, which I love. Yeah, completely different people.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

That is nice. And and do you mind sharing their names? Oh, Vivian and Natalie. Yeah, so I mean, I love that too. That you didn't have like Natalie and Nadia or you know, Vicky and Viv Vivian, you know, like just give them their own separate identities, you know, dress them differently. It was all I mean, I think that's really cool too. They don't have to be identical in every aspect. They're super.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

I think of them, they're they're very, very different kids. And because this was it for us, and we knew that these two would be it for us, that I'm thankful that they are so different, you know, because I think of them as very much individuals, which which I really like. They have different interests, you know, different personalities, different friends. Uh, you know, just uh they're both at Grand Valley, like I said, but just really unique, which I think is really important as as young women, which we'll talk about is we have to find our voice and stand up for ourselves and be our own people. And so we really encourage that.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

That's really great. I love it. Yeah, we'll come back to the girls a little bit, I'm sure, because I mean it's just part of your story, and you know, and they're they're in your lives on a daily basis. And so there's always these conversations that kind of mix in a little bit. But let's talk about your public speaking a little bit. I love your website. Um, you know, when I was looking at your website, it's it's very, very much you, just the the the pictures, which you said you thought were maybe a lot a little outdated. I used it as my announcement, but for me some updated photography, yes. Well, your hair's maybe a little longer, but the personality still rings through. Those pictures are awesome. So I mean, so can you tell me about like why do people fear public speaking? What why do they like start to sweat everywhere as soon as they know, you know, what first drew you into the work and what part of this journey is meaningful? Like, give it give me all the goods.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Well, that's that's a lot of stuff. Yeah. So I mean, I I really believe, you know, why do people, you know, why do they struggle? Honestly, it's it's that fear of making a mistake, that fear of being judged, the feeling of being unprepared or underappreciated. Uh for professionals, I think it's the fear of not being invited back, you know, for example. Uh it's it's frankly, it's it's the fear of failure. And honestly, you know, the only way you can get past that is through preparation and practice. And and having somebody in your corner like myself. So I was gonna say, which is what you do, which is what I do, and that's what I love about it, Sherry, is just I love being that partner so much. And as you advise people with, you know, with wealth and you know, with financial and money management, I like to to coach those to get through some of those obstacles because it doesn't have to be terrifying, you know, when you've got somebody supporting you, which is the part that I love.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

So you said you started with the yellow pages. How did you get to fast forward? Like, how did you, or was there a million different tracks along the way, or how did you just end up with this wonderful public speeching, coaching career? Sure.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

Well, and it it's a great question. So uh I've been a people person my whole life. Uh, as I mentioned, the oldest of two girls uh between my sister and I, my mom, my poor dad was definitely outnumbered, like my husband. So, I mean, I'm just reliving my own childhood right now. Um, but both my parents were teachers, you know, college professors, and so I was I was always surrounded by confident and supportive people. Uh education was always a really important focus. And then approaching life with a great sense of humor. My parents are hysterical. I mean, they're funny. I think I think I'm funny. My kids think I'm funny, I think I'm funny. Um, but um after college, you think I'm funny? Um, I was immediately shuffled into sales, right? Like, oh, you're outgoing and confident you should be in sales. And so I I I've sold radio, I've leased apartments, uh, you know, got you know, moved into the yellow pages, and uh from there I realized I needed more education, so I decided to go back to school. But always keeping sales and relationships in mind, and the this is really funny. So I realized that selling is teaching, it really is. Oh, okay. Selling is teaching because you're educating an audience about an idea, a product, a service, and you're you're literally educating them in that sales process. And so there was a lot of crossover between education and sales. And I discovered I was really good at the meeting people part, yeah, but not so great at the sales part. That's the hardest getting people to want your product. I mean, I was good at it, but I it wasn't the money that was motivating me. And I realized really quickly that to be in that field, that has to, you've got to balance those. And I was just I was more interested in the helping part, not so much the sales part. So uh so fast forward, uh I've shared the story with with Sherry before, but uh so I was I was an adjunct for many years, uh teaching communications at Aquinas College. And uh it was one night I was at home with my Vivian and Natalie, we're seven years old. This is in 2011. Okay, right in 2011. And Grand Rapids was getting ready to kick off its very first TEDx, its local, first local ever TEDx uh event. And my husband and I volunteer very regularly in the arts community, and our kids are very involved in the arts community and festival and the arts. And uh one night my husband came home and he told me, Hey, listen, our TEDx team, again, all volunteer army, is looking for uh a coach to help some of the speakers with some of their slides and just a little bit of you know refinement, you know, getting ready for our first event. And I volunteered you.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

I knew that is so funny. It's like, okay, well, wait, you can volunteer you, honey, but you volunteer me. I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_03 14:45

I've got these two first graders, like, what? Like, um, okay, what? And he goes, you know, just just a couple hours here and there, like where am I gonna find these extra hours? Right, you know, right? And uh and I was exhausted, I was tired, but you know, I said, okay, you know, I can help a couple people. And so uh I ended up just looking at some slides. This is before Zoom, folks, so this is just over email, over coffee and stuff. And I actually helped uh one gentleman who actually ended up missing his flight coming into town for the event. And so I had to actually take his talk uh and make it his manager's talk with about a day or two before the event. And uh I coached her uh to present this, and it was a huge, huge success. And word quickly spread that oh, the TEDx team has uh a professional speaker coach available. Oh no. So suddenly my phone's ringing and the email, like, can you help me? Can you help me? Can you help me? Can you help me? And the really best part is uh what was so gratifying going back to the education piece, Sherry, was I had realized that the skills that I had been honing selling yellow pages and the skills I had been honing leasing apartments, you know, education was actually translating, you know, from my client's college classroom to real world. And it was this this light went off going, these are real transferable skills that people really value. And I just started helping friends and family with can you just look at my outline or can you just kind of look at this? And again, we volunteer, so this is volunteer.

unknown 16:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah, so I hope, I hope today fast forward like you've gotten out of the volunteer.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

I I do charge for services now, finally, yes. Um, all your listeners are like, what's your email? Right, right, right. So I can say, but but just just some quickly, you know, fast forward just to wrap this up. And so I was having coffee with a friend. Again, this is all pre, you know, Zoom and everything. I was having coffee with a friend, and my close my close colleague told me who was part of the TEDx uh TEDx team, he goes, you know, you could be charging people for this service. And this little Dutch girl's brain went off going, what people can pay me for my talent and my knowledge, and that's how it started in 2011. Zoe Carmichael Consulting was born.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Woo!

SPEAKER_01 17:29

So C, what'd you say? Zoe Carmichael Consulting. Oh, yeah. C C C Zoe Carmichael Consulting.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

That's my new branding. Yes. I love that. But it it it was so meaningful just because, you know, just to wrap that up, it's like I think back to our decisions, you know, for all of our listeners and as women, few of us can really pinpoint that that day, that time, that moment when your your life takes a different turn. But I can tell you, Sherry, I can tell you honestly, wholeheartedly, that I go back to that night in the kitchen with my two first graders after teaching, you know, at a client's all day. First, if I had refused, you know, his suggestion to, you know, can you just take a look at these slides? I would have missed out on all those opportunities. Yeah. Right. And then second, I would have missed out on this journey of just helping hundreds of people realize their potential to be positive communicators because I could have just said, no. I just and I still I still teach college now, but now I have all those factors, the teaching, you know, the college teaching, the professional coaching. Uh so I'm very thankful for that opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

So I mean, that really that's kind of well, one, yeah, you had this aha moment and it was so memorable. You know exactly what it is today. And you're right. I bet every one of us has these moments, and sometimes we don't walk through that door. Sometimes we just shut the door with a with a big no, and maybe you never look back. Sometimes maybe, maybe we do. My the whole goal, I feel like for any of us is to live a life without regret. You know, like so you said yes, and you know exactly what's come from it, and you've had so much opportunity and you're doing something you love. It shows all over your face. You love what you do, you're smiling, you're laughing, you get to help people, right? But if you had closed the door and never done it, you wouldn't have met all these people and had this awesome journey. And then there's a bit of self-reflection in there. You realize that everything that you had done leading up to that has created maybe courage when you're like, I mean, calling people to do ads in a phone book is not easy. You basically going to businesses or calling them on the phone and you're trying to get them to put an ad in everything that you did from apartment leasing. I love how you connected that because that's where our journeys really go. I mean, we think that was just a first-time job, or that was just something that I needed to do it to get by. But when when we really reflect back, we're like that. No, that was a part of who I am and how I used it going forward in the job I have today. I think that's probably that's awesome. I love that. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. That is really cool. Well, so I mean, you have that aha moment. You had kind of told me in that process, you met all kinds of people. Did you meet any famous Grand Rapids people? Like, who would we who would you say any fun people along the way that you've worked with or helped?

SPEAKER_03 20:33

I have worked with a ton of big names. I mean, honestly, I don't even know where to start. Um, I worked with uh Tammy Vandenberg on her political campaign. Um, I worked with um with Rick DeVos way back in the day. Uh I worked with oh my gosh, just heads of all kinds of companies, you know, uh Fred Keller and Christina Keller from you know Cascade Engineering. Um I've worked I mean I've worked with every single industry, medical engineering, business, accounting, law, education, literally every single industry in town. And tell you, I'll tell you, Sherry, I don't do a lot of advertising. It's it's good work and word of mouth. And I use LinkedIn a lot, but uh I've I've worked with a ton, a ton of people in Grand Rapids and beyond and beyond.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

I've seen um, I just happened to see some of the testimonials on your website and could see some of that. And I thought, well, that I mean, not only is that great for business, but like you said, it's across all these industries. How does how do is there a difference when you're teaching people for public speaking across different industries? Do you have to do different things for them to reach who they're trying to speak to? Or is it the are the the processes of public speaking pretty much the same no matter what industry?

SPEAKER_03 22:00

I'd say a lot of the public, the tools, I have all kinds of tools. I have outlines, I can read drafts, I proof, you know, slides, we do role plays, all those things. And honestly, it's the same principles uh across industries. Uh, it really comes down to content and delivery. And so uh I call myself uh, you know, you are the creator, right? I am the curator. Okay. It's your content and I help you shape it for your audience. And what I love about that is a lot of folks just need that little nudge. And I'll tell you that the key is organization. I will, I will, I will say that forever because uh a lot of folks think they can wing it or oh, I've done this before, you know, I can do it again. And the truth is, you know, when it comes to just anxiety, I think procrastination holds us back. I mean, we can all get stuck. I get stuck, I can start the blank page, but it's a dangerous position to be in, and there's just no substitution for preparation. And I love being that third party. I don't work in your industry, but I like to go in thinking, well, you know, make me understand as a non-expert. And that that comes down to the the preparation that I love to help with.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yeah, so I I hear that you mentioned like the anxiety and procrastination that people have. So what is it like I mean, maybe it's just that organization, but do you literally have to push them onto that platform in that stage, or how do you get them to like I I have threatened to be that dance mom and the wings, you know, with the hook, like you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 23:38

And um, I've offered to be there many times, right? Uh, but the idea is that um here here's here's my my advice. I have a lot of tips, which we'll talk about, but the goal is to really understand the purpose and the goal of your talk, right? And if you can get out of your own way, so many times we just get in our own way, and what that means is we need to pay attention to the message, not the medium, right? Don't get hung up on the fact that you're alone on that stage or you're on a call because you have to get out of your own way and realize that what I have to share has value. And the people that show up want to hear what I have to say. So you have to just channel that energy into the information that you want to share. And it can be invigorating, like, you're not gonna believe this amazing idea. Listen to this, buckle up, right? Just get out of your own head. And if you have a plan, then you can have a presentation.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Oh, that's good. Yeah, get out. Yeah, it's not about you. You're presenting a message, you know, you're not selling you or whatever, right? That's that's really good. So if you can put yourself in a box and cover it and put the message over here and just be able to do it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Right? It's it's it's really not about it's not, and this is what I tell my students, is what I tell my clients. It's not about what you want to say, it's what your audience needs to hear. Oh, yeah, right. So you curate it for that audience. And so whether it's construction or medical or education or law, regardless of the industry that you know I'm hired to you know assist with, it's really about what does their particular set of stakeholders need to hear at that time. And it can be again really, really exciting. I find it extremely rewarding.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

So absolutely I can bet, yeah. Well, so if people hire you and they go do this, do they kind of I mean it's kind of exhilarating when you get done? You're just like, I did it. It's kind of hard run. Like when you go for a run, nobody really wants to go for a run, but when you're done, it feels amazing, right? So public speaking, you get on that stage or whatever it is that you're doing, you like might have to push yourself, you have to be prepared to organize. But when you get done, it can kind of be a little uh addicting. Do people come back? Yeah, it's it's I do.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

It's it's a huge ego boost, you know. And what's really cool about this technology is I've worked with people, you know, in different states around the country because we can do this over Zoom. And so I do a lot of coaching right from home. And, you know, during the pandemic, you know, we thought, oh my gosh, it's the end of public speaking and coaching. No, we just we just trans, you know, transition to a different platform. And so I've worked with people in Nashville, I've worked with people in Florida, I've worked with people in California, again, just all through word of mouth, uh, helping professionals with keynotes and thinking, oh, I have I've got this thing in my lap, I've got to give this keynote. So, you know, how can you help me? And so I have a whole process. We go through kind of like what you and I did, just preparation, what's the goal? Who's your audience? The key here is what's the time frame? Right. I have a keynote next week. It's a different coaching approach.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Can you imagine somebody's like, oh my gosh, time got away from me? I have to be on a big stage next week.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

Sherry, I'm not even kidding you. I've had I've had a couple repeat clients who know how I work and they know that I'm fast and I'm very honest, and I provide real-time feedback because I want them to succeed. When they succeed, I succeed, right? And I'll never forget, I had uh um, I had a friend of mine from my TEDx days reach out to me in a pinch saying, Zoe, we haven't talked for five years, but I need you, right? Which is the best compliment in the world, right? Yeah, and he said, I like you said, I put this off and put this off, and you're gonna love this. You're gonna love this. He was in the car and he had to present like an abstract, like a pitch for the talk, like he was on his way, and he's like, help me design this. So I literally talked through him, you know, you know, hands-free, of course, not on Zoom, while he was in the car to his appointment. And I mean, he's a professional, but I would not recommend that.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

So yeah, I wouldn't recommend that either. But thank goodness you were available.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

What if you well, and that's it, and I I have a particular style, and you know, my my goal is to provide that structure and the proofreading and the recommendations. Uh it's I I just it's very, very fulfilling, it's very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

In that regard, he calls you up, needs all this help, he goes to do you ever get the feedback at the end that he calls you and he's like, We did it.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

I mean, do you and sometimes I do, but then they get they get busy, you know, be like, whatever happened to that thing we did? And they'll say, Oh, it was great. You're like, Oh, it was great. What do you mean? Of course. Like, can you tell me more? Can you tell me what went great? Oh, yeah, yeah, it was great. Yeah, it was a great QA afterwards, and oh yeah, the people want to know more. And you know, that's that's definitely the best part. And you know, I will have people text me saying, Oh my gosh, I just walked off the stage. Thank you, Zo. It was so rewarding. And uh that's that's what that's what keeps me going.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah, fills your bucket for sure. It does. Well, so do you ever surprise any of your students or your clients? And I mean, everything's available everywhere. You could go to YouTube, probably pull that up. Do you watch it and then go, hey, me? You could either like compliment them like crazy or go, now we talked about this. You didn't quite do this. So next time.

SPEAKER_03 29:23

You know, it's it's funny, everyone's coming from a different place, right? And everybody comes from a different place of encouragement. You know, I grew up in a home, as I said, with with teachers who focus on an education and positive feedback and positive reinforcement. Not everybody has that privilege, right? Of having that family support, you know, partner support, especially work support. And so, especially with women, uh, I think it's really important to be supportive. Um, I like to offer critiques, not criticism. Yes, sure. Absolutely. Really, really big difference. Uh, you know, criticism is this is what you did wrong, right? Um and and critiques are this was fantastic, here's how it can be even better. And that's my approach, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

That's a great approach. And that I mean, that would ultimately I could see you doing that, just going, hey, I followed up. I watched, I watched what you did, everything you did exactly what we talked about. And here's what we could maybe even add a little icing next time to that wonderful cake, right? Let's let's add a little jazz to this, you know.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Yeah, let's get the confetti, right? Let's get the confetti. And no, it's it it's very true. That's uh that's a really good question. Um, you know, we talk a lot about just women and opportunities, and so that's that's really what I try to to really focus, especially with my daughters too.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Yeah, is it different when you're um coaching women versus men? Are women um more hesitant to public speak? Do they feel like they have to be perfect before they get out there? I mean, what how do you overcome that kind uh that mindset for I guess I'm saying women because I I feel like maybe that's more the case, but you tell me, is it different for men versus women? How do you see this?

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Well, I have um a great example, if I can share with you really quick. Uh so I'm working with a young professional woman right now. Uh, you know, I we go downtown. I actually meet with her weekly. I'm actually going to see her tonight. I see her every Monday evening. She's highly educated, highly motivated, but she is she's really you know focused on advancing her career, but she lacks the confidence to speak up to her senior leadership. Oh she's like probably like late 20s, early 30s. And so we're meeting we're meeting every week uh to encourage that support, but also we're also building scenarios and we do a lot of role-playing, like pretend I am your senior manager, you know, manager, and you're coming to me. And how do you ask for things, you know, and how do you, you know, stand up for yourself? And that is a real challenge, especially for young women right now. And I believe women of all ages are just facing just really strong key challenges when it comes to speaking up. Uh, even in 2026, that sounds crazy to even say that. Women often struggle with public speaking just because there's that combination of internal pressure, of perfection, like we said, doing it all, having it all. Excuse me, imposter uh syndrome is still real. Like, I can't believe I'm here. I don't deserve to be here, I don't have the skills, you know, they're gonna wake up and realize I'm not qualified for this. And so a lot of women still struggle with that. Yeah. That how did I get here? That that pressure for perfectionism and just you know, gender bias, lack of representation. And as we said earlier, you know, we are raised to be nurturing and caretakers and not you know, focused on being assertive and putting ourselves out there. So to answer your question, I think some women do struggle with that that mindset shift that I can't ask for what I want and not apologize for it. And I've earned this, and so I work with men and women, all ages, again, college students, you know, senior leadership, middle leadership, and I find that not all, but some women hesitate because they're just fear being shut down, or I love this being viewed as too much. Too much. How could we be too much? Too much, too, too shrill, you know, too aggressive, and and and it's too bad, but we are we are still facing that. And so I think I think fear tends to tends to hold us back.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Yeah, yeah, I could see that. So there's a a little couple of things I I heard that you said. One is, and maybe our listeners feel this way too, when I when we were talking about public speaking, I was completely, I put you and all of your clients in a box so easily where I thought everybody needs help on stage or presenting as a keynote. But what you just described was somebody who just wanted some really good basic communicative skills to be able to talk to her the the people that she works for. I'm like, so really your your, I mean, what you do is kind of endless in that it's not public speaking all the time, it's communication.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Communication?

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, I thought, well, that's one thing that okay, so you just opened my mind a little bit because now I'm thinking, well, everybody needs you. We could all learn to communicate better. But I would say too, at least even in in for me, I hate, I hate having those conflict. No, I was seeing confrontation. Confrontational, yes. I mean, it's as a leader, men just seem to like just cut through and not necessarily worry, maybe as much about the emotional. And every time, you know, for women, it's always like, oh, you know, I want to say this because it needs to be said, but I need to be nice about it, and I don't want to hurt their feelings, but I really need more out of them because they're not quite getting it done. You know, like there's this, I don't think men have nearly the emotional thought of through this. I could definitely see where we might want more of your skills, though. We need you.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

Well, it's it's it is funny because it's that perception, Sherry. You're exactly right. That, and again, I work with men, women, you know, all the above, again, all different ages. I I've even, you know, done some middle school coaching. So um but the fact is, is that you know, it again, it goes back to it's not about you know what I have to say necessarily, but it's like, you know, it's what my audience needs to hear. And I am the delivery tool, I am the mechanism to share this information. And, you know, it's not being rude, it's not about being aggressive. It really is just building on that confidence that, you know, I have what somebody else needs, and whether that's to advocate for myself or my team or my family, you know, we we should have that platform to do it. And so uh I do a lot of communication coaching. I work on developing the elevator pitch. So I work with a lot of people where I have interviewing skills, where you're you're at a party and classic, right? It's like, hi, I'm Sherry Hooper. You know, what do you do? Boom, you're on the stage. What do you say? And yeah, that's I do a lot of coaching with that too, where it's like, well, how do you how do you capture attention in 30 seconds? And it it comes down to those stories, the stories of TEDx, the stories of that that kitchen moment, right? The the stories of uh, you know, my young professional who has all the tools. She's an amazing person, but she's so terrified of being shut down. And so it's it's a process. And and I tell her, look, I work for you, not your boss, not your manager, but I work for you because these are the goals we're working on together for us. And I mean, she wants me every week, so I must be doing something right.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Yes, Lily Banks on the right hand. Well, and I would say on top of that, some of those confrontational, I think, at least I don't maybe from my conversations with other women, it the hardest one is getting paid for what you do. And when somebody says, Well, how much is this? And then you tell them, you have to be willing to just know that you're of value. And if they walk away, which is what we're always afraid of, is losing the next best customer, client, whatever that may be. But like the money thing is so hard, again, I think for women to be able to say, and I mean, we all know we're valuable, but I I don't know. Can you tell me at all? What would be your insight to that? Because I think we have our jobs or our careers. Um, we have to get paid, we have to feed our family, kind of a thing, right? In some instances. So is there just one quick tip? Like, how is it so easy for men to just go, this is my this is it? They deliver it with such confidence, people pay. When women are like, eh, I'm so sorry. I mean, we're so much more timid about it. Is it part of just the attitude or the less of attitude when we deliver our our pricing? No.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

I think I think a lot, it's it's a real, it's a real struggle because again, it goes back to that expectation that we're nurturing and we're understanding and we'll placate other people. We want harmony, we don't want conflict. And every time there's a price tag attached to something, we immediately shrink. And we absolutely should not do that, right? Because if you and your listeners and everybody here and the women that you work with believe in their product, it is attitude. And it's just to be very straightforward. Uh, we all you know, we eat to be healthy, we try to exercise to stay healthy, investing in yourself, like getting training, for example. Like if you were to hire me, it's an investment in your mental health, your professional health. And so I see it as a huge investment in your professional and emotional health. And so if I put a proposal together, you know, for an audience, depending on who the client is, and I can definitely, you know, work within people's means, but I see so much benefit to it that I stand behind it and and you should too.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah. Me and all of our listeners, for you women out there, we are valuable. We have to stand behind it, right? And and be proud of it.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

If you are, then you'll go those they'll they'll believe you, like, okay, she she is worth this, right? Um, you know, the pressure on us, of course, is to deliver that value, but it's it's mindset, it's shifting that mindset.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

That's what I was just gonna ask you. So, um well, so we'll come, let's let's go to the mindset. I had another question, but let's go to the mindset because um I I mean, I think a lot of what I hear as I'm doing several different guests is self-talk is so important, mindset. And they, you know, like every day waking up and starting your day with just declaring these positive thoughts. I mean, is that part of any of your public approach or maybe even just your own personal everyday approach? Do you how do you feel about self-talk, positive self-talk, changing your mindset? What does that look like for you? Sure.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

So positive self-talk is I believe I have a whole list of you know 10 tips to reduce speaking anxiety. And that means not just for speaking, but just communicating in daily life too, is that I really believe that most people want you to succeed. They really do. And I believe that. And so when I'm teaching a class or I'm working with a client, my mindset is that this is really great stuff. You know, whether I am picking up a child from daycare and I'm saying hello to a teacher and I'm being positive, I realize that most people want that healthy communication. It's reciprocal, right? So I wake up thinking, how am I gonna make someone's day today? Right. Well, that starts here.

unknown 41:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

You know, how am I going to support somebody else? Well, I have to support myself. And so it really goes back to getting out of your own head, getting out of your own way, and realizing that you know you have value and that people want you to do a good job. Now, I will always flip that around and say, unless you are uh on a debate stage and the other person wants to tear you down, that's a very unique situation.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Yeah, have you done that? Have you coached somebody in for a debate club?

SPEAKER_03 41:44

Sure. Oh, yeah. For sales? Hey, I sold yellow pages for three years, Sherry. I mean, I know how to get past objections. Okay. I I know how to overcome those objections. Why you need a full page ad? I mean, you know, challenge me. Um, so yeah, going back to that mindset, you know, it's uh it's what good can I do today?

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yeah, that's true. I mean, it's always you always want to be more of a blessing to others, but in that process, you don't realize how blessed you become through that, too. I mean, that's the whole thing is going out there and going, I want to, I want to help somebody, I want to bless somebody. And then all of a sudden, at the end of the day, you if if you do this, you write down your gratitudes or whatever at the end of the day, and I realize, oh my gosh, I was the one that was blessed by that. I mean, here I was trying to help somebody else and it filled my heart, it filled my bucket for the day, you know?

SPEAKER_03 42:35

I I walked away. Can I tell you one more quick story? We do in okay on time. So uh so I do a lot of volunteer work in town. So I do a lot of volunteer work with the schools, Grim Episode Schools, the arts community. Uh, we've started a whole new uh series of talks called Unfiltered. I don't know if you've heard about this, but I'm on the original team that brought that together. And it's storytelling. We have events, we are now working on our fifth event, and it's getting local storytellers, the power of stories, not going away. I mean, there are master's degrees in storytelling, Sherry.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

I mean, it's I had no idea. I had no idea.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

Stories connect us as a culture, as a people. We pass down values and culture means stories bind us. And so, why do people love the Moth Radio Hour? It's a story. Why do we love TED Docs? They're stories. So uh last Christmas, a good friend of mine reached out, an old TEDx contact said on LinkedIn, said, uh, Hey Zo, we haven't talked in five years, but I have an idea. I want to pick your brain. And so we met and he said, you know, COVID, you know, just shuttered people in their homes, and people need to get back out there and encourage, you know, community. And so he had this idea of putting together an evening of local storytellers, not famous people, not professionals, but just people coming on stage for an evening of stories. And we're calling it unfiltered, raw and unfiltered on a stories. We've had four sold out events. We have charity partners, it's a free event, but we actually For like a donation, and um, we've had it at theaters, bars, restaurants, we're on our fifth one, and so we help curate these local community storytellers, and of course, I'm this the story coach, and what is so exciting about that is these are just regular people with cool stories that we you know asked to come on stage, and it's it's literally tears the night of these stories, Sherry, because you've got these people that may never have ever been on stage but have a good story, and they don't want to be on stage and they're terrified. But we do this coaching back and forth, and it's like I always say, Look, you're not being graded, you know, there's there's there's no grading scale, so don't you can't fail, which is like, whoo! You know, and they get up on stage and the love and the support and the cheering of these regular folks getting up there, it is so emotional. People are like hugging afterwards, and we've had stories of like stories of you know, childhood, you know, shenanigans. We've had stories about transformation, we've had stories um, you know, just about uh just you know unbelievable things that have happened. And it's you know, it's like seven minutes up on stage, sit down, and I will get emails going, I can't believe I did that. Thank you for this. And you know what I get out of it? I get that feeling of I did something good for someone today. And who knows if that will be their kitchen moment.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Well, so unfiltered is it? Um, it sounds like it happens more times in a year, it's not just an annual event.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

So we have a small ragtag group, and we pick the day, we pick the the speakers, we ask people to submit stories, and uh we're having usually twice a year. Uh, we just finished one. Uh, it was at uh Mammoth Distilling over on Wealthy Street. Um, and again, community partners are the charity partner, I should say nonprofit partner with disability advocates of Kent County. We raised, gosh, like$2,500 in one night. Right. So that that goes back to that community volunteering piece uh with the hope that it leads to paid work.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Of course, of course. Well, so how long do people have to have how how long do they get to talk to share that story piece? Um, usually about 10, 12 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Okay. And uh the way the way we do that is we'll uh you know, we'll put a call out for stories. We have a theme, you know, different themes. We call it unfiltered. And we start with a Zoom call, like, tell me your story. And I have a partner that I work with, and uh they just talk and talk and talk. And I say, okay, let's shape this. I have outlines and tools to help shape that talk down to 12 minutes. And it can be a challenge because some folks love to talk, but we're like, you know, time, time, gotta keep it right. Everybody's gotta have their shot. That's right. Um, but it it's really encouraging because if I can help others succeed, then then that that makes me feel really, you know, fills my cup, makes me feel like I'm doing something good for the world.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Well, when you asked me even before we started, why did I get into podcasting? I mean, it was pretty much the same answer. Like we were in sync right there because I just really recognize women don't get to share their stories. And we have, we all have stories to tell. And I think part of it started even going back when um somebody had mentioned to me probably over a decade ago, like we need to take advantage of the time we have with our grandparents. And what information do they have to share? Because that's our heritage, that's our legacy. And once they're gone, it all the information about your family goes away with it. And so I took that um to heart and I interviewed my grandparents. And, you know, and I have that memory, I have um all the notes that I had made, I'd kept that. And and then so then I even wrote about that in my company newsletter. You know, we all need to take advantage of our our history, you know, like that. That used to be the thing before all the technology people would sit around and talk about what did Aunt Edna do, and Uncle Joe did this, and how did they write? I mean, where did they work and how much did things cost? And you know, and fast forward, we've lost that that little bit of um community, I think, and we've lost that history in our own families. And so I really pushed for that. And then I realized nobody's really asking me my story. I know that I have done some amazing things. I mean, sometimes we're forced into doing these amazing things, and sometimes we just it just kind of comes by circumstance, but we've pushed on through and done different things, and so I think that's what you're seeing and what you're a part of with this unfiltered. So if there's a website, I want to get that from you so I can put it in the podcast information, people can see the unfiltered aspect. Um, I'm gonna put your website, you know, so people can get a hold of you too if they're looking for any type of communication how not just speaking, but interview, you know, when you're yeah, for job purposes. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

If you if you need, if you've got a meeting with your supervisor where you need to ask for a raise and you're like, Zoe, what what what are my main points? You know, I my my structure is this. It's it's I will often get people saying, you know, whether it's volunteering or paid work, doesn't matter. My students, you know, it's like help, I don't know where to begin, right? And the good news is my answer is well, I've got a plan, right? And you have a professional coach in your corner. And I think that it takes a lot of that pressure off, like, whoo, I'm not doing this alone. And that's that's where I come in.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

So yeah, no, that's perfect. And you know, I think that can go with a lot of um our careers, whether it's mine or yours, but with when we're helping serve our clients or customers, it's we can fight fear by having that plan. And I use that all the time. There's a whole reason I have a financial plan because we're going to avoid that stress, that anxiety, that fear that sometimes we have from the unknowing by putting this plan together, and now it's all laid out. We know and that's that peace, right? Of mine.

SPEAKER_03 50:26

You can sleep again. You can sleep again. It's it's adopting that servant mindset. And I live by that. It's a servant mindset. Uh, and it's not all about you, but it's just having respect and empathy for your listeners, for your clients.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I I would like to because I'm going to shift gears just a little bit, but before we shift to the lightning round, which is always, I don't know which one's my favorite, all of the conversation or the lightning round. But um, it's so can you just tell me um for any of the women that are listening today, what would be what is one message that you could share with them? Um that would um, I guess what I'm trying to say is when it comes to her using her voice, is there anything that you could say to our listeners? Like a little recap or yeah, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 51:18

So I I'll start with this is find the people who support you. Oh yeah. That is is so important. Friends, girlfriends, partners, parents. I mean, just really find the people who are in your corner and support you. And for those that might not have a large social circle or find like they have a lot of close friends, uh, I I'll be that person for you. Yay! And I really mean I really mean that. And the idea is identify the cheerleaders in your life, the people that want to see you succeed, and then invest in yourself and your capacity to do amazing, amazing things. And don't be afraid to stumble a couple times because you got to stumble before you can run.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Oh, yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

Right. And then just my final piece, and and this is really important for women, everybody else. This is a great place to land on is that don't let others talk over you or pretend that you don't matter because your voice has value.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

Oh, I like that. That's a great way to kind of sum it up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

I think that's probably the a big thing is recognizing our value, being just that is huge. And even one of the things, you know, as we continuously push for growth, I think that's one of the things that sometimes people forget to do is you graduate from high school, you graduate from college, you're done with school, but it's so important to continue to grow to push yourselves. It doesn't have to be another class. There's no keep learning. And so when I am listening always to different podcasts, even just today, is like what you said is get those cheerleaders around you. And everybody that's in your life doesn't necessarily have to stay in your life, you know, and there's and you don't have to be rude about it, you just kind of lessen your time. But if those people aren't motivating or supporting or cheerleading, then those are the people you just want to like kind of pull back on a little bit, whether they realize it or not, that those are not the people that you need in your life. And it's okay to change people, you don't have to keep them around just because you've always known them or always done it, but evolving.

SPEAKER_03 53:25

We're and we're evolving into to more you know skilled beings, right?

SPEAKER_01 53:30

So yeah, that was a really good way to end. That I mean, you know, just to kind of recap and for women to sometimes we feel like we need a little bit of permission. You just gave them great permission to have those cheerleaders in their corner and to be one of them for them, right? So, well, so if you're enjoying this conversation, please follow women in the businesses they own and share this episode with someone who could use this message. And I think this was a fabulous message for everybody. So share it with everybody, absolutely. And here we go. So um, this is just uh a fun um opportunity here within the podcast to get a little bit more personality, which I think you have so much. You're so focused on it. So let's see what you so what is your favorite class to teach? Because I noticed quite a few on your website when you're kind of going down. Is there any one that stands out to you that you're like, oh, I'm so glad they signed up for that?

SPEAKER_03 54:27

Sure. So I teach a class called uh it's at Kendall, I teach at Kendall College of Art and Design. I have been an adjunct there for 15 years. And I teach a class called uh design communication management, and it's just about very visual, how we communicate our ideas through visual. I really, really enjoy that.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

That makes me think of the question I was gonna ask you earlier. So I'm going to pivot. Um, so when we were talking just before mindset, I was asking when you were had the you were talking about us being able to do better in the confrontational and kind of stepping up. And um is body language part of that when our delivery, when we're saying, hey, I'm valued at this, this is my price, take it or leave it. Kind of because I remember, um, and you probably know this one, I know you do. It's an old YouTube video. I had a chance to have her as a keynote speaker. I think her name's Amy Cuddy. May say that correctly. She's all about power stance and body language, right? Is this part of what you do as well?

SPEAKER_03 55:28

Oh, absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, it's all about content and delivery, right? And that content is, you know, taking the content of your idea, but then delivering it. And you can have great delivery, you know, you're you know, you're all made up, you've got the you know, the body language, the eye contact, you know, the control stance. But if you don't have anything of value to say, then all this doesn't matter, right? And vice versa. You can have great content, but if you're like this, like I am not I exactly, so I am not a fan of memorizing your talk because we are not robots, humans are not robots, don't read it. And the idea, and I will always tell people too when it comes to delivery, is like, look, you know, I can Google anything, or I can talk to a human that's engaging and looking at me in the eye and is nodding towards me and has you know their body open, right? This, my students will say, Oh, I'm cold. I'm like, no, that doesn't fly. No, this you're you're literally closing off your body to the other person. So you always want to have that open stance, that welcoming stance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

You're standing out, not crossed over in front of you, not crossed in front of you, right?

SPEAKER_03 56:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

So is that part of what you were saying with a Kindle class, a Kendall, not Kindle, Kindle class.

SPEAKER_03 56:44

Kind of College of Art Design, yes, yes. The the body language is is huge. That strong handshake, and you can be the best designer, the most talented graphic designer, but if you don't know how to do this and communicate, the other person will get the job. And I say that wholeheartedly with my students because it's true.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

Okay, all right, I love that. So good pivot. We're gonna come back. So, what's one phrase you say all the time? One phrase I say all the time. Um something that just comes out and doesn't necessarily have to be work. Is there something that do you find yourself saying something your mom used to say? You know what?

SPEAKER_03 57:23

Um build the why, and then that leads to the how. There you go. Build the why you're doing it, and then that will lead to the method of doing it. But you gotta know your why. No gotta know your why why you're doing it.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Yep, that's perfect too. There's a good book about that, too.

SPEAKER_03 57:40

Called Start with Why.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Yep. Yep, that's a Simon Sinek, big fan. Big fan of Simon Sinek, got it. And uh yeah, anyway. So, how about your favorite way to unwind after a long day? Oh my gosh, this is so easy.

SPEAKER_03 57:53

Cuddling on the couch with the cats, with my husband, watching Netflix.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

That is a good way. It sounds very comfortable, peaceful. I love it. Um, do you have a favorite cocktail? Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_03 58:06

Uh, I like the Amaretta Sours. Oh, I mean, that's going kind of way back, but I it brings me back to younger days.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

Yeah, I was gonna say we're we're taking the way back machine a few times here. Who does the fate who does the best amaretta sour in GR for you?

SPEAKER_03 58:23

Oh, ooh, uh that's a really good, that's a really good question. Um boy, I I've got a a couple in mind. Um, I would say the commons. The commons. Oh, I love that place. Over it's my favorite place. Shout out to the commons and everybody over there. That's that's our comfort spot. Grant and I like to walk in and it's like like, hey, so hey Grant. You kind of feel like cheers and everybody knows your name. And yes.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

Uh it makes me feel like we're walking into the Brady bunch. I know.

SPEAKER_03 58:56

I love it. It's the Commons I highly recommend.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

Okay. All right, shout out to them for sure. Um, last thing you practiced saying out loud. So, sir, did you have to practice something? Did you give a speech recently? Is there something that you had to even go deliver?

SPEAKER_03 59:13

Well, sure. So I've been doing a weekend class. Uh, it's about a seven week uh it's a master's level class that I always do on Zoom. And so I always have to set the tone, and that's a really, really important piece as a speaker, as a presenter, as you you are you are the pace car, you are setting the tone. If you're excited, if you're if you're excited, they'll be excited. If you walk on stage like this, or well, yeah, you know, change it up, right? And so I always start with a very, very healthy good morning. What are we going to learn today? And I I like that, and I say the we because I'm learning just as much as they are.

SPEAKER_01 59:51

Oh, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 59:53

We, what are we going to learn today?

SPEAKER_02 59:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

So finish this sentence. Confidence is achievable. Oh, dang, that was quick and good. Well done. What color is your kitchen?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

What color is my kitchen? It is uh it's a light blue. Okay, perfect. And your favorite comfort food. Oh, my favorite comfort food. Okay, I'm gonna say chocolate cake. Oh, dang. You're getting all the favorite. So we all want emeralds hours and chocolate cake with cats on the couch and Netflix.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

We all do, we all do about now. I mean, too, it's early. It's early, but I'm gonna by Monday night, by a few more hours, we're gonna all do this. Yes. Um, okay, so before we close, I want to share something that really stayed with me. But gosh, you know, this one's actually a little bit harder as I recap our whole podcast today. Usually there's just one thing that really stands out. But you've you've said a couple of things. I think I'm just gonna say right here at the end. Um, I always, you know, kind of draw from the whole thing, write it down. Sometimes it's in the middle. This time I think because there's so many, I'm just gonna go with I love how you just answered confidence is achievable. And even a little bit more funny, I love how we're the pace cards, because that's just all I can automatically see it. It's a great visual. And so we're setting the tone when we're in that type of a position. And so I can see that pace car going out ahead. And and there's so many other things that you had said, but um, just to kind of keep from for our time here today, um, I that really made me think about a couple of things. I love the visuals that come with it, but confidence is achievable, and we all need to remember that as well. So um, so many women are waiting until they feel ready and ready to speak and ready to lead and ready to step forward. I love everything that you said for them today. I think that there's some really great learning tools. I think there's some really great confidence areas for them. I think there's some really good places that they can just say, yeah, that's me, or yeah, that's acceptable, or yes, I have value. You just really gave a lot of people permission today to just feel valuable. I love that. So um, thank you for being part of women and the businesses they own, Zo. Your story matters, and today you told it beautifully. And to our listeners, remember she came, she spoke, and she inspired. And we'll see you next time. Thank you.