Episode 30: Catherine Brown - Where Curiosity Leads, Wisdom Follows

Some women collect stories. Some collect wisdom. Catherine Brown seems to have done both.

Before becoming a shamanic practitioner, Catherine lived a life full of movement, adventure, and courage. She was a travel writer, writing for magazines and books while exploring places around the world. She raised her three children on a small farm in the mountains of Patagonia, Argentina. And today, she brings that same grounded, curious, joy-filled spirit into her work with shamanic healing, Akashic Records readings, family constellations, workshops, coaching, and one-on-one sessions.

In this episode, Catherine shares a story that is rich with adventure, belief, motherhood, grandmotherhood, healing, and the courage to keep following where life leads.

She is joyful. She is grounded. She is wise. And her story reminds us that purpose often unfolds through curiosity, courage, and trust.

She came. She spoke. She inspired.

Disclosure: http://bit.ly/4jWGPF4

Catherine can be reached on Instagram at spirit.e.d or her email at cathybrown2100@gmail.com

This podcast is presented by Summit Wealth Partners, LLC, a registered investment adviser that only conducts business in jurisdictions where it is properly registered or is excluded or exempted from registration requirements. Registration as an investment adviser is not an endorsement of the firm by securities regulators and does not mean that the adviser has achieved a specific level of skill or ability. The firm is not engaged in the practice of law or accounting.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to Vis Women in the Businesses They Own on Location at Lake Lelana. Woo! Well, during this podcast, we celebrate the stories behind the businesses and the women who built them and the journeys that shape their lives. I am your host, Sherry Hooper, with Summit Wealth Partners. And each episode we sit down with remarkable women to discover not only what they do, but why they do it. Catherine is my guest today, Catherine Brown, and we'll make sure all of her information is in the information below. She specializes in shamanic healing. Did I say that right? Shamanic healing and Akashic records reading, family constellations, coaching, and online workshops. Her help, excuse me, her work focuses on helping people better understand themselves, heal emotional patterns, and move forward with greater clarity and purpose. Whether these concepts are completely new to you or you've explored them before, today's conversation is one I'm extremely curious about, but it's also about personal growth and understanding one another's unique personal path. So thank you so much today, Catherine, for joining us. I think this is going to be just the most amazing podcast. And as always, my first question is tell us a little bit about you, and you get to decide which chapter to talk about, but about yourself and about the business that you have.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Oh, thank you, Sherry, for inviting me in and hosting this.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

It is a pleasure and an honor to see where this conversation will go and who it may connect with.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

And grew up very, you know, what is traditional nowadays, but like, you know, just our traditional.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah. Generations traditional.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Nuclear family, very, very blue-collar, um, very lower middle class, um, and but a loving family. And I, it was difficult because I had really big aspirations, even as a young girl, and it made no sense on how I might get there. When I was little, I knew when people ask, what do you want to be when you grow up? And everyone's like, a veterinarian, a ballerina. And I always said it couldn't be one or the other. Mine was I want to be a cross between, I don't want to have to choose, it's gonna be both. I want to be a shaman and the female Indiana Jones. Oh my gosh. And for where I came from, I mean, my family had never taken, we didn't take vacations past Mackinac Island for, you know, a weekend once every five years. And that was a big deal. It was what my family could afford to do financially and was comfortable doing, you know, mentally. And I thought, okay, so how am I gonna do this as a very white girl from suburban Rockford, Michigan? Um and went through life, had little blips of getting out into adventure and exploration. Um I had actually been signed up for the Air Force Academy. I wanted to be a fighter pilot, which is really hilarious now. Um, but I I did just want the adventure of it. Um, I I want I realized, thank goodness, before I actually went there, that I I understood what I wanted was the adventure, and I didn't want the military aspect of it, which is quite a large part of it. So I thought, okay, that's not gonna work. Um resigned uh, you know, from from that path and decided to be a ski bum. And I just lived out of my car and I ski bummed all over the US and Canada. Um, and that kind of fueled me a little bit of like, look, I got out, I'm doing things. Um met my ex-husband and um got pregnant with our first daughter, Ava. And then from there, I just kind of fell back into just kind of like a pre-arranged or like already preset path, it felt like it was like, oh, okay, now I'm a mom, now I have a husband, so now I have to do mom and wife things. And it's that's you know, that can look all sorts of ways, but in my head it had to look a certain way, and so I I allowed myself, I didn't just allow it, I helped create it, uh a lifestyle that didn't reflect my true passions. Um, I ended up being a soccer mom in Ada, Michigan, and just going through the days of of play dates and soccer games and and hosting charitable functions and and all of that is wonderful. And it is it's a certain type of luxury. Like I got to be a stay-at-home mom from the day my three children were born. Um it is it is a privilege and a luxury, and I hated the life I found myself living because it wasn't authentic to me. I loved being a mom. I love being a mom, and now I'm a grandma as well. Um, but my day-to-day didn't nourish me. It didn't fuel me on a deeper level. And I was always, I started not always, but I started to realize that I had made boxes of you can either be fulfilled as an individual or be a good wife, be a good mother. And so I thought you had to choose, and I started questioning that, and I thought, wouldn't being the best mother I could be is being an example of a human being who goes after what actually sets their heart on fire and and and what their dreams are. And isn't that being a good mom to show my children that like they can do the same? They don't have to pick a little box and stay in it. They can, you know, rip the sides open and and build, you know, I'm just picturing right now, like playing with big cardboard boxes a kid, like build a box city.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

You know, like you can you can go between boxes and and literally have it all.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Um from there, when I realized that my dreams did matter, I I started getting honest with the fact that I was very unhappily married. Um, nobody in my family had ever divorced, so that was a lot of pressure and loyalty, of that's just not something you do. And I realized I had to, and I realized that I had to make a big change. Um I don't do things very subtly, so if I decide something, I go all in. Um, and I decided, okay, I have tried everything in this marriage, everything, and it's just it's it's hit its end. Um, not only am I not in love, I don't respect this other person, and I I don't respect myself anymore for staying in this. And so I thought, okay, if if I'm going to walk the walk instead of talk the talk, what is the life that I want to be living? And I wanted to take my kids out of the bubble that we were in, and I wanted to show them the world and show them there were, you know, different ways of life. I wanted them to grow up bilingually and comfortable with other cultures, not just comfortable, but so curious as well. Um, and moved down to Patagonia, Argentina, raised my three kids as a single mom on a farm that was basically started from scratch. I was very ambitious, totally have romanticized little house on the prairie my whole life and decided I was going for it. Um, you know, we're 45 minutes up the mountain from the nearest village with no cell service, no internet, no anything. And it was, it allowed me, it forced me to be with myself and go, oh, what's here that I've been avoiding by being busy? What's here that I've been avoiding by trying to take care of other people and other things? And the the sheer isolation and of what we were in gave space to go, oh, and really get clear on where I was, how wounded I was, how uh shattered I was. Um, my marriage had been deeply abusive. Um, and it allowed me to kind of start to take inventory and go, wow, this is dire. This is really dire if I let myself sit with it and get real. And I didn't speak much Spanish. Um, I didn't speak any when we moved down there. And so traditional therapy wasn't an option for me down there. I couldn't get on, you know, telehealth anything and do anything in English. Um, and I couldn't speak Spanish. So I started being open to different modalities that were much more uh much less reliant on the stories. Because oh man, if I was gonna go to therapy with my stories, I could be there for eight lifetimes. And then this happened, and then he did this, and then this happened, and blah, blah, blah. And I also knew that wasn't what I wanted. I wanted to go beyond all of that to something else. Like I wanted it, it sounded cliche to me at the time, but I was like, my soul wants like a little bit of support here.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Like my heart.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Oh, I didn't want any therapy or healing I was in to stay just in the brain because it felt so much more than that. And so um, I actually came across uh shamanic healing, which reminded me, oh, I was supposed to do this since I was like four. And the modality was such that like does not require a lot of words, and so that worked for me, and that helped spark a lot within me. Uh, once I started taking it seriously, of like, I can do this, I have a place in this. Things just steamrolled and teachers appeared, and and I I just put myself on a really dedicated path of healing, not setting out to go help anybody else. I honestly couldn't think of anyone else at that moment in my life. I just needed to worry about myself for once. Um, and so I never thought I would be in a place to do this work professionally. It was just to work on myself in a way that felt correct for me, in a way that made sense to me. And it and when I say it makes sense to me, it didn't make sense on any logical level because I still to this day can't fully explain half of what goes down in shamanic healing. And that's the beauty of it. It's so beyond what the mind can comprehend. Um, but it made sense to me just on a deeper level of yeah, this is this is working. Then came Akashic Records and Family Constellations, and they're really not hugely different. They all work with the soul, they all work with the unseen because if regular therapy or talk therapy works with the variables we already know about, with the words we have or someone else has. And there's so many variables that don't have words that we can put on them, or they're variables that we might not understand. Energetically, they're there, but we can't necessarily see the origin or the why. And and that's okay. And so all of these modalities that I work with work with revealing the unseen, the untalked about, the ununderstandable. Um, and so they work together very complementary, just coming from slightly different angles. That's where I'm at. I I moved back, I lived in South America for almost 17 years. Kids were grown all over the world, doing their own independent lives that they love. Um, and I realized this was one thing to raise kids down here. It's another thing to be down here completely alone and taking care of a farm, and my parents were getting older. Um, and I realized it was it was probably time for a move a little bit closer. Um I didn't think I'd be right smack back in West Michigan and ended up here. Um, and I'm am since so content. I I connected with a man who offers me a love that I had, I don't even think I could have dreamed about the type of love that he offers in my wildest dreams. Um, and I'm at a place where I am able to not take it for granted. I'm able to receive it, to cherish it. Um, like I said, I now have a granddaughter who lives here, so I'm not going anywhere. And I found a lot of a lot of just what's the word? Um I mean, it goes beyond gratitude of being able to offer my work to a community in West Michigan that I never could have believed would be open to the type of work that I do. Um, and so it's beautiful full circle. Um happy to be here. I was not short.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

That was I know I I don't know if I can remember my first questions now that I wanted to go back to when you first started. I thought, wow, there was a lot there. Well, one is we're both from Rockford, Michigan. So I graduated from Rockford, so go Rams. Yep, yep. So I know I know what you mean by the small town, you know, probably very similar in, you know, you said low middle class. You know, I mean, everybody thinks Rockford was this big high dollar, everything, but I don't think so when we were there, not so much. It was farm country. It was total farm country. Every time I told somebody I was from Rockford, they were like, oh, Illinois? And I'm like, no, there's actually another one on the map. Um, well, so you you were right there in Ada, Michigan. You said you had how old were your children when you took off for Patagonia?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Four, six, and eight.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

And they probably didn't even really take in so much. Like, where are you taking us, mom? I mean, was there I mean, did you have to you were trying to heal yourself, but I'm sure your kids had to lean in and they were like, no, mom, we love soccer, we love our friends, we love our school. They were just, how did you actually take care of them and transition them? And how did you find a place 45 minutes out of a city in another country? Like I I use a realtor and you I can't imagine there's how did you do these things?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

I when I made the decision that I need to move and I need to start, you what we never really start over because we carry everything from from the past, but I wanted to, you know, to start new in some way, and it was as simple as I saw a photo of Argentina, okay, and it was the Andes Mountains in springtime, and all of the wildflowers like were just covered, all the lupins everywhere. It was just straight out of a fairy tale. And this sounds very maybe like naive or innocent or a little too like ooh, but like I was like, I want I want to live the fairy tale, and not like I mean, I've been living one, but like one of the scary, like the grims ones, you know, from the past where like I want to live the cliche fairy tale for okay, yes, yeah. And I thought this, I've always been so connected to nature, and literally just the aesthetic looking at a picture nourished me so much of the plant life, the solidity of the mountains, the clarity of the rivers and the lakes. There's this like gorgeous glacial turquoise. And I thought, oh, I deserve something pretty. And so it was just bringing it back to what I considered to be healthy, necessary basics without all of the other noise that I had going on here. Also, I was uh I'd been, I like I said, I'd had the privilege of being a stay-at-home mom since my kids were born. I wasn't that eager to accept the fact that to raise them in the States, I would have to work probably two full-time jobs to give them a very mediocre lifestyle, and I would be stressed and not see them just to get by. And I know a lot of people do that. I respect it because I'm sure it's nobody's first choice. Um, but you got to do what you gotta do. And in Argentina, I was able to find work um as a writer in English, getting paid by US or Canadian or you know, European companies, and I'd get paid in dollars or euros. And at that point in Argentina, with the state of the exchange rate, I was able to work part-time, be at home when my kids came home from school. And so basically they still saw me as a stay-at-home mom, and and I, you know, I didn't have to sacrifice so much. Like I still needed to work, um, but our expenses were so much lower. And yeah, it it was it was an opportunity for me to continue to show up as a mom in the way that was really important to me.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

That's really that's really amazing because I was thinking you must have homeschooled your kids, but now you're saying they went to school. So they went to school at the local school with the local kids, and they must have gotten a like Spanish 101, like just whoosh, like a fire hose.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Yeah, they don't even have any foreign accent at all. Like they when they speak, if if somebody from Argentina just, you know, they answered the phone, they would assume that they were Argentine. They they have no residual accent or anything. I I completely do.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

You do, sure. You were a lot a little bit older when you went there. So So you said your kids are all over the world, but you have your granddaughter. So one of your children is there in Ada, Michigan with you. Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Um my son and his wife to be, they're getting married in September. Um, and they've got a nine-month-old daughter. They're out in Allendale. Oh, in the Allendale. Okay. And I've got my eldest daughter, she's in Mexico. Okay. And then my middle daughter is nomadic. So, and I knew that. I knew that from day one. Um, she, when she graduated high school, she just left with her backpack and made her way through Central America. COVID hit. So she she got stuck in Central America at age of 17 in the middle of a world pandemic. Um I love her resiliency. Her words were like, this is like a retreat. I'm at a place where no tourists are at, and I can't go anywhere. And I just get to read and paint and journal and cook.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

And this is this is my dream life. So everyone was like, wasn't she freaking out? And I was like, no, she's loving life.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Um, and so she's since she's since traveled and lived all over Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Australia, Morocco, Cambodia. Um, and I've got her back for the summer until her brother's wedding. And then she's off right after that to where she's not sure, but wowing the life that she wants to live. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Well, that's really cool too. But um I I I don't know, I can't imagine just being the mom of a nomadic 17-year-old stuck in South America. But when you were in Argentina, you said that there was no internet or anything like that. How? So I'm assuming two questions. One, I'm assuming your daughter must have a cell phone today, somehow that you can communicate with her. But how did you communicate and stay in touch with your parents when you whisked off to Patagonia?

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Making the trip into town, getting on Skype when there was internet, and you did what you could.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

And they were never, were they not scared for you or wondering what had come over you? I'm sure they were. Um taking their grandkids away because now you know how precious your granddaughter is.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

I remember when I packed everything up and we went to move to Argentina and we flew out of Chicago, and my parents drove us there. Okay. And I remember my dad, everyone else was in the car. We stayed back to get the last suitcases, and we were going up the stairs, and he just stopped me. And he goes, Like, oh, I'm gonna get emotional remembering and I thought he was gonna be mad at me for leaving and and all of that. And he just stops me and he looked me in the eyes, and he got all like choked up, and he goes, I want you to know something. You're doing what I never had the balls to do. And he just gave me the biggest bear hug, and we both started crying. And I just thought, Oh my gosh, not only is he supportive, but he's proud of me for doing this because he knows what it takes to like push through and say, I'm doing this. This this too is gonna be scary. This too is gonna come with challenges, but like this is what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Yeah, after everything that you did, I just can't believe that you're content in Ada Major Game.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Well, and I'm in, I'm not even in Ada, I'm in Heritage Hill in Gorgo.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Um well, on that note, like there's a whole other chapter where I became a professional travel writer. And I wrote for Lonely Planet, I wrote for CNN, I I I wrote for almost all of the guidebooks and and travel magazines, and I specialized in adventure travel.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

So, meaning I would get sent to go kayak the coast of Antarctica, I would get sent to go, you know, dog sled northern Norway through Finland and and just do crazy adventures on every continent of the world. And that was a trip, and that was a lot of adrenaline and go, go, go, and do, do, do. And I've genuinely hit a point where the most fun thing for me is to be at home and cook a gorgeous meal. Or like that to me is is lovely. And mixed with the further that I dive into shamanic healing, Akashic Records, Family Constellations, there are literally worlds there to explore. And I can I can feel like I've explored more of the world internally than all of the adventures combined externally. And so, like, I can't ever get tired or bored of that because it's endlessly fascinating. Um, and so I just feel like I've switched one chapter of traveling externally for you know a natural succession of traveling internally and getting to know all the little corners and pockets of my subconscious and and all of these things in the internal world.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

You have a lot of courage. I would say you're a very brave person to go to all these places. And now I'm trying to fit this into your timeline. How in the world did you do travel to? But I want to make sure that we're getting to, I mean, you're fascinating. Your life is fascinating. You you're you've hit everybody's bucket list. People wait their whole lives to hit these bucket places, you know, travel or even get into the sense of peace into the retirement or what have you. And you've already knocked it all out and you're just exploring something new and different. But that's the new and different we want to hear even more so today is is the shamanic healing and these, like you had talked about these uh I want to say it right, Akashic records, right? I mean constellations, is that something that's how do I say it? Like, is it just a because it sounds like in general you're able to dig in like in he and learn more, but it's not but is it specific to each person too? Absolutely. Okay, okay. So tell us more about that.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

How does well it's it's different with each modality, so I guess we can start by explaining a little snippet of what each modality is. Okay. Shamanic healing is age old. I mean, there's records that go back that we've been doing this for over 75,000 years. Um, in Siberian cultures, they have some of the oldest recorded um shamanic techniques and things like that. I I have both a formal formation um through Michael Harner's Foundation for Shamanic Studies. Basically, it's like university, but your classes are different shamanic techniques, ethics, like all sorts of things. So I have that formation mixed with being forged by fire. I've lived with multiple indigenous communities, mostly in the Amazon, and a lot of hands-on work. Shamanic healing deals with the unseen behind, you know, like goes beyond the story. So people can come to me and just say, I don't feel spark anymore. Like I look in the mirror, my eyes are lifeless, I am lethargic, I am stuck in this pattern of anger or anxiety or depression or grief. And like I've talked about it till the cows come home and like I'm not getting anywhere. And what a shamanic healing can do is it looks it looks different for each client. Basically, can go in and scan their energy field and see where there's energy that doesn't belong to them that can be, and that happens all the time. Um, energy that is theirs, but it's old and doesn't serve them any longer. It's kind of like we are hoarders of energy, just things that happen in a situation. We don't process it, we don't let it move on. And so we're just hoarding old energy that doesn't serve us, energy that's glommed onto us from other people, intentionally or unintentionally. Um, different wounds that you know have happened to us that we don't even re we've moved on, we think, but the residual is still there. Um, and so there are different techniques to take out that stagnancy and transmute it, to take out some of that density, to unblock things. So you're really just bringing them back to their more natural original state and clearing out all the noise and the blockages. Um, the techniques are different depending on the client, but that's that's the basics. And a client after a session usually just feels a whole lot lighter. And we are warders of energy. So if you're looking internally and you've got just stuff packed all in there, you can't see clearly what's even going on in you. And so you start to take away some of these things that aren't necessary and aren't supportive to you. And when a person looks inside themselves, they can go, oh, now I can actually see things. I'm left with what's mine. Oh, that's mine. Okay. Now at least I know what I'm in, what I'm actually dealing with. Um Akashic Records deals with, first of all, Akasha means ether in Sanskrit. And Akashic Records might sound like some new age boo-woo thing, but it has been for thousands of years. It's even referenced in the it's not a religious thing at all, but it's referenced in the Bible as the book of life. Um, and so basic Einstein science is that energy can't be destroyed. That's Einstein clarified that. That is like proven science. Anything your soul has gone through on its journey in this lifetime and in any others, it's made an energetic imprint. So whether it's a situation you've your soul has passed through, a relationship, a dream, uh anything, there's been an energetic imprint. And if it can't be destroyed, it's out there somewhere, still containing the information. Every single, not just person, um, you know, animal, plant, every single everything has an archive that is the record of their soul's journey. So a client can come in and ask questions that they want clarity on, of like, okay, please tell me, why in every single relationship do I end up in this pattern? And you can go back and almost rifle through their book and say, oh, well, actually, when you were five, you saw this mimicked in you and your you saw this in your parents, and you're mimicking it because that's what you that was your first education on what love is or looks like. And they're like, Oh my gosh, that makes sense. Um, you can ask about why am I, you know, continuing patterns. You can ask, I am lost. What the heck did my soul come here to do? Because I am just bumbling around life and I do not feel direction. And you can go, oh, when you incarnated, this is what your these are the lessons your soul set out to develop or go after. And these are your gifts that you came in with. And a good Akashic Records reading doesn't tell somebody something that is shocking, because on some level they already know it. And so a good clean Akashic Records reading leaves people going, uh-huh. Yeah, that yep, I've been trying to do that one for a while, but yep.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

So when you're doing the Akashic Records, I mean, how are you making these determinations? Is there a room set up where you're in this kind of a certain quiet place? Are you, I mean, what do you do? You're reading like their hand. How do you how do you is it a bunch of questions that you're diving in specific to draw things out? What does that mean to read their record?

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yeah, there's there's a technique to access someone's Akashic records. You can learn it in a weekend. I see classes, I see readers out there who've just learned from a book or they've learned from a two-hour class. I find that wildly irresponsible because you are dealing with very private, intimate information from someone's soul that the information can literally alter their life's path. So it's a responsibility and needs to be taken as such. Um, so it's it's actually very simple to open a Koshrik Records. You know, there's there's just a technique and a format. Anybody can do it. It's not like you need to be, you know, born with the gift or whatever. Yeah. Anybody can learn it. What happens that makes an irresponsible reading that I can't even consider a reading, or a clear, clean reading, yeah, is if the reader recognizes that they are human and you come with your own subconscious, you come with your own biases, judgments, prejudices, triggers. And so a lot of people get Akashic Records, you know, they're level one or they're level two, and then they fancy themselves a reader, and they think any information that comes through, it's divine information, therefore it's unquestionable, it's just already impeccable. Well, yeah, the information is impeccable, but what comes out of your mouth probably isn't because it's passed through the filter of your biases, judgments, prejudices, and own triggers. So in my training, I've trained for well over a decade with thousands and thousands of hours of training and mentorship. And for years and years, I would have to ask a question to the Akashic Records, write down the information. The very next question would be, now please show me how my own ego has interfered in this information. Oh, that was humbling. It's like taking a red Sharpie marker and you're crossing out words, and it's like you changed this, you deleted this, you put in a sassy tone at this word. And then the next question is, now show me why I did each one of those actions. And it was years of training in the fact that yes, the information comes in clearly. We as readers can very unintentionally muck it up and being in offering our take on it, but trying to sell it or mask it as like pure and impeccable. And so the training in that is to realize you're human, realize that's going to be a tendency, and being humble enough and insistent enough to do the work to make sure that what comes out of your mouth is clean and not tweaked by you in any way. So a good Akashic Records reader is behind the scenes, checking themselves at all times. Um, and just making sure that you're getting out of the way as much as possible. Um, I also, before any session, I have the person send me their information, just their name and birth date, and I'll open up Akashic Records and I'll say, is it in both of our best interests that I am their reader? 99% of the time, it's a yes. If it comes back, no, I don't even need to know why. A no is a no, and then I can I can pass them off to a colleague of mine. But that's just basically like in some readings, maybe something that was going to come up in the reading was going to trigger me so hard that I wouldn't be able to do it cleanly. Um, and so like I do my work ahead of time to make sure that I am the correct reader for maybe not even the correct one, but like I'm a I'm an acceptable, you know, it's it's going to be beneficial for both of us to go through that session.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

When you're doing a reading, do you does each person just get this one reading, or does it take multiple readings to get somebody the information they're looking for?

SPEAKER_00 40:04

It depends on the person. I am big on integration. I am not big on more for the sake of more. Um, I find that you come into a reading, it's usually about an hour and a half. You get to the point as a client of pure saturation, of like time out, white flag. I cannot take in anymore. I have to sit with this. You have two different types, you have a lot of different types of people, but two main categories are the person who sits with it and actually works with the information that's been given. Akashic Records doesn't fix everything for you magically and miraculously in your life. It gives you the steps so you can. It gives you clear guidance on where you've been, what you're in, and where you're going. And so it gives you a roadmap, but it's up to you to do things about that, to put yourself, you know, in direction of where it says is in your best interest to go. So you've got people who, after a session, they get to work and they're willing to sit with maybe things that came up that were uncomfortable or things that came up that are going to be challenging, you know, but necessary to get them to where they they want to be. And then you have the people who didn't necessarily like the answers they got and they just want to schedule another session to try to do a redo. They're like some other homework, and I'm pretty good at calling that out. Um, if I see that's a tendency, I will put a stop to that because that's not what I'm interested in helping to facilitate.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Plenty of other readers they can go to and and play that out with them. And I'm much more interested in how much are my clients actually integrating of the information. Um, it's not just something to do. Um, like this is this is actual life-transforming work. Yeah. And I think needs to be taken seriously as such, and not just as like a game of like, oh, I'll do this, I'll do this, and I'll flip around here and I'll flip around here. It's like, no, do something with the information received. You asked for it.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Yeah. So if you get information that you don't like, so you're saying that it's very revealing as to why we might even be here on this earth for it. And so maybe somebody doesn't like that. Is there a way of changing the? I mean, how can you you get information, you're like, oh man, that just doesn't sound like me, or I can't believe that's what I was intended to be here for, or you're unpacking.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Here's the thing. Yeah, how do you don't get a that doesn't sound like me because on some level they know that sounds exactly like them, and they're just not necessarily willing to, you know, face that. People just don't accept it. Okay. But on some level, on some level, the information given is received as as truth because it's pulled literally from your own archives of what you've experienced. Um, so it's it's hard to fight the information.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Yeah. People might resist the information, but you can't really fight that what they've learned. That's what you're here for.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

That's and there's no un unhearing it or unknowing it.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

And you're not gonna sit with it. I just it is what it is. So it's more of like you you can't change it, it's more of an acceptance that you're just trying to go through as you can maybe if you have to it's just the ultimate reality.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

It's like reality in a Koshak Records reading, a good clear one will just show you reality as it is and the part that you're playing in it, and then it's up. To you how you're gonna react or respond to that.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

So people might come and spend an hour and a half, and then they need to they're gonna realize that that's probably what it was. They're getting this aha moment, and then potentially sit with it and kind of grow, heal, whatever that might look like from it, maybe another session, or or is there something that you send away with them? Like this is this is where you get more growth. This is some more information that you can find, or you know, just take some time out for yourself and just don't let the world in and just absorb. I mean, what do you provide?

SPEAKER_00 44:44

I'm are you providing next steps, or each each Akashic Records reading comes with its own information of action steps. Like okay, there's a lot of misconception that it's like this like flighty, vague, I see love coming into your life, kind of fortune. Like some sort of card reading, and it is so grounded. It can be, and a lot of times people might think they want some big fluffy answer. Yeah, and the reading might come back. Uh, that one phone call you know you need to make that you've been avoiding for seven years to this family member. Why don't you actually do that? Because that's what's going to shift the dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Like you'll leave with clear action steps. It is so grounded, it is annoyingly grounded sometimes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

I mean, hey, just do it. What are you afraid of? Just knock that one out. But it's right in front of you. That's especially because they're like, how do you know that I needed to make this call? I mean, so I could see where that would be very specific. And then if they make that call, then coming back as a next step with you and deciding.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

Like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

For example, we we can access Akashic Records as much as we want, but it's just dependent on how our capacity is to receive and work with the information. For example, I will have my Akashic Records open on the daily, and I can I can bop in and like ask things of like, is this the between these two choices, which is the best decision for you know my life path or but I can bop in at any point. But I've also developed a capacity to accept the information and take take responsibility for acting on it. Um, but there's you can have one session that is mostly focused on love life or relationships, another session can be on career, another session can be on passions and gifts and hobbies, another one could be on your relationship to money, another could, I mean, you could there's endless exploration to do, and so it is not a one-time shot. You don't need to ask, you know, figure out your questions that are you only get one chance at this. Like, no, gotcha, gotcha. Okay, I have ones that come back, you know, once a month, once every few months. Um, because there's an endless list of things we can inquire about to want to understand ourselves better.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yeah, so people generally come in with their own questions or direction that they want to take.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

And that's important because there's an accountability there. They're saying, I desire to know this about myself or this situation. Then when the answers come in, it's not like you're imposing something on them and they're just some victim to this information. It's like, no, you asked for this clearly and specifically. So it puts accountability on them that yes, they they chose to know this.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

And so for me as a reader, ethically, no matter what comes in, I can't just spout off information and be like, I've seen this about you, or I feel it's like if you haven't asked for it, that's like a that's a huge violation in my in my training, is the other person has not asked for that. They they might not want to know that, even if it's in, you know, even if it could be good for them, if they don't want to know that, they need to take an active part in this, not a passive part.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

Okay. It's just a lot to like think about when you're saying that kind of stuff. So can can somebody say at the end of their session, Catherine, is there anything else that you would like to share? I want you to share with me everything that you're being shown. Can somebody get more out of you if they're giving you permission to share? Or is it just specific to that session and your your ethics?

SPEAKER_00 49:07

It can typically be uh a little bit more refined than that. Like, is there um I mean it can be something, but it's usually got to be a little bit more specific on their end. Like, uh, please give me one, you know, one blind spot that I'm holding towards all of this that I'm not aware of. And so they might not know what it is, but like they're kind of refining the question. It's it it could go anywhere, but they're refining the question and they're still asking to know. Or um, please give me some type of action I can do to help me calm my anxiety around what I've just learned. And so like they can they can ask broader questions, but it's not just uh you have my permission to tell me whatever.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Like that's still I actually like that question you just brought. Give me some calming information after what you what we just learned. That's who I mean, there's a lot that comes up. Okay, so a couple of questions um before we head into the lightning round that I have is I love that. I well, I mean, it's just really quick and fun. But um, is there a podcast or a book or a TED talk, something that was either really informative for you, or is there something that somebody else, if they're just loving the information that you're sharing, could they go and get more from someplace else that you would like? Is there where could they learn more, or where do you learn more?

SPEAKER_00 50:49

I'm big on experiential learning because the work that I do and what we've been talking about is so personal that I could read all day long about somebody else's experience and still not learn anything about how it might, you know, apply to me.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

And so I'm very big on experiential learning. If you want to learn more about Akashic Records, go get a reading, go get two from two different readers and learn different styles. Um, if you're interested in family constellations, sign up for a workshop and live it, experience it. These modalities we're working with go so beyond what the brain can comprehend that to think that somebody can write about it and encapsulate it is is not happening. Um, so I'm huge on experiential, but I can say that for lifestyle, yeah, Elizabeth Gilbert has been an idol of mine um since Eat Pray Love came out. Oh, okay. Yeah, and I've I've followed her ever since the trajectory of her life, and she's really inspiring to me because she's unapologetic about her own exploration in her life. She doesn't think she has to stick to a box, and she's curious about herself, and so it's like, oh, I did this. She she also was a travel writer. Um she was also in a very difficult marriage, then a very beautiful until it wasn't marriage, and then she was like, Oh, I just fell in love with a woman now, didn't see that coming. And instead of thinking, it can't be this way, it can't, it's not supposed to be this way, she's like, Well, let's dive into this thing that my soul wants to experience. And she's shown me because I mean, I've been I've been a ski instructor, I've been a professional like photojournalist, I've been a soccer mom, I've been a real estate investor with my realtor license, I've been a travel writer, I've been a wine writer, I've work as a a shaman crying out loud, and to just go, yeah, you know what? Let's we're here to play, we're here to get to know ourselves. And just because we tried one thing doesn't mean that we have to stick to that forever. Um, and that it's all valid. And so she's really inspired me to not have to feel like I have to explain, like if I want to shift or if my life now it's like people are like, oh, but you had it good. You were such a you were a travel writer living the dream and Patagonia and the Amazon and this and that. And it's like, yeah, I did that, and now my soul is playing around with being content in in one space, and like that's just a different exploration, and it's just as valid. Um, and so she she she inspired me in that way of the playfulness of being human and just endless exploration that you don't have to explain or justify, or it doesn't need to make sense. But when life brings you something that piques your curiosity on a deep level, roll with it and be open to see where it takes you.

SPEAKER_02 54:31

I think that if you could bottle up courage and sell it, that would be really a good thing for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

The thing that isn't everybody has it already.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

I don't know. I mean, just speaking for myself, I couldn't do any of the things that you've done. I mean, I've never, you know, I've traveled a little, but I've never really stepped out of West Michigan. I, you know, it's like my path was already just in front of me. I can't imagine picking up my kids and going outside of the state level, outside of the country. And then you've gone on all of these, you know, explorer, these different travels, I guess is the easiest way to say it. But I know that you have been a writer. You said you wrote things, you know, to make money for while your kids were young. Um, and then you wrote for these different travel places. Are you going to write your own journey, like eat, pray, live? No, you don't want to write it.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

I was never passionate about writing. I was passionate about traveling, and writing gave me the ability to get paid to travel. Okay. It was a means to an end. It was never my passion. I was good at it. I could smash out an article like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And but that I never did it for the writing. Okay, for the the experiences I was able to have traveling. And I want to go back and like, okay, you could never do you think what I've done. Well, there's things that you do that I couldn't do, and that's beautiful. It's like it doesn't always look the same way as like this is a life well lived, and this isn't, or this is a courageous life, or this isn't. Like it can take infinite forms, yeah. And a courageous life doesn't need to look like mine. Like you'll find it in your own ways.

SPEAKER_02 56:21

I like how you're saying that. You're making me feel a little better. I I do I do see what you're saying, though, about that. I mean, everybody else's everybody's path and journey is their own, and certainly and that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

Yeah, it's absolutely beautiful. Live a life that's authentic to you, that challenges you in the ways that yeah you need to be challenged.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

So this is a this is a lot of good information for our listeners. What we haven't uncovered as much is how do they find you? I I know you don't have quite have a website now, but I believe you're on Instagram.

SPEAKER_03 56:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

And so, and then do you have an actual office or do you have a home office or okay, how do they get sessions?

SPEAKER_00 57:06

So most of what I do, I would say 85% of what I do can be done online. Okay. We're dealing with energy, energy is accessible through any format. Um, most of my trainings, I train with people all over the world. My trainings are online and does not take away anything from what we're able to do or the work we're able to get done. So Akashic Records readings can be done online. Family constellations I do online. Workshops, all of my workshops are now online. I teach energy grounding, energy protection, um, working with ancestors or animal spirits. So there's things that are very practical, and then there's things that are very specific for people that want to, you know, go further into more niche stuff. Okay. I do have a home office, a dedicated home office space um here in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and that's for seeing people for one-on-one shamanic sessions. And I also work with um a couple of different plant medicines, sacred plant medicines from the Amazon. And those are all, of course, in-person guided experiences. Um and so, but most of the work is online. I'm I know this is more of a business podcast that has been my journey for the past two and a half years since I moved back here. Is how do I become visible in this? How do how do I stay integrity and not feel like I'm just like selling out or trying to like get people to do this? It's been difficult for me to figure out the business component to do it in a way that feels both effective and and keeping the heart-led, soul-led part intact. Um, most of my business is word of mouth. And so I've been lucky that since I've moved back here, I have clients that are very well like established in the therapeutic communities, the naturopathic communities, um, and you know, chiropractors, like bankers. I don't have a clientele of just a you know bunch of flaky people who are just wanting to try the next woo-woo thing. And so I have kind of an army out there of people speaking on my behalf that they themselves are very well respected. And they're like, okay, no, I know it sounds weird, but just try it. You gotta try it. You just gotta go. And so the word of mouth is helpful, especially because of, you know, a very strong client base I have that they are people who are very grounded, they're very well educated, you know, and so people take them seriously. So if the recommendation comes through them, they they then come to me with more with more seriousness about the work. Um yeah, it's it's also been tricky because there's some backlash within the spiritual healing, whatever we want to call it, community, of should you be charging for this work? Of like there's a lot of just assumptions that these are gifts and they should be given freely. And that's been difficult. And you know what? Those are if people think that that those are not going to be my clients, and they'll find someplace else, and that is absolutely okay. But the business part that's been tricky is I continue training. Some of my trainings are thousands of dollars each time, and I do multiple a year in addition to weekend workshops and and continued ed type trainings. Yeah. Um, the plant medicines that I use, like it is not easy getting them from the Amazon. So there's costs involved. It's not like I can do this work 40 hours a week, or it's not like I can show up with the amount of energy and focus that it takes to do this work well if I'm holding down another full-time job. Sure. And so it's been tricky in the beginning for some people to see that yes, there it's a business like any other. And a therapist, like I'm I'm not a traditional therapist, but the work is very therapeutic. And I just had to train people that if you wouldn't text your talk therapist at midnight with a dream you just woke up from having and want me to interpret it for you, like I had to set boundaries of like, no, this is a professional atmosphere, and please treat it as you would any other, you know, doctor appointment, therapy appointment, chiropractic appointment. Like, you wouldn't be calling those people, or or I had one person um use me as their without without talking to me about it ahead of time or getting permission, using me as their emergency contact. Oh my gosh. Because if they were in a crisis, they trusted me and I calmed them down. And it's like, I don't want a phone call. It's not appropriate for me to get a phone call at 3 a.m. is your emergency contact when this has not been discussed ahead of time just because you feel comfortable with me. Um, and so getting people to take it seriously as in like a professional context was tricky in the beginning. And I've just had to get, you know, out of necessity, very good at setting clear boundaries of like, no, yeah, this is how communication goes, this is the policy for no shows or you know, like, and just realize that like I needed to stay very consistent and steady. And then if people would either fall into that and agree to those, or they would move on to a different facilitator who didn't have clear boundaries.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:38

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I could see where you would have to do that and recognize that right away to be able to have a thriving business yourself and for your own learning, like you're saying. I mean, you can't keep doing what you're doing and not have that continuation of learning and and and of course the cost or the time away. I mean, it's it's a business. I can definitely see that. I'm glad that you just shared that with everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

Yeah, it was tricky in the beginning for me because I have no problem paying and paying well to go to my teachers or to go to sessions with them. And then in the beginning, it was like, oh, but it's it's different. That's because they're them. And just having to realize that to somebody else, I am that person to them. To them, sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:21

Well, as we close this session here, what would be one thing that you want every listener to just one message that you would want to leave on our listeners, you know, a message that you would hope that they would receive today.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:38

Oh that they are endlessly fascinating. And even if they're going through a difficulty, whether it be a death, an illness, a divorce, you know, financial challenges, no matter what situation we can be in as a human that's challenging, within that, there's a whole world of opportunity, of learning more about ourselves, of pushing ourselves in a different direction, of challenging ourselves, of being introspective and going, oh, how have I shown up to even find myself in this to begin with? And so even if something's difficult, go inward because again, like I said, I've traveled the entire world, every continent, many times over. And the inner world is the greatest adventure of all.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

That is really that is a good way to end. I love that. That just sits really well. So before we continue, if you've enjoyed this conversation with women in the businesses they own podcast, please like and share, share, share with others. We would love to get this out, especially for Catherine. But this is just fascinating. And you can um feel your energy actually, even in this, right? This podcast to be in and that we all are unique in and fascinating people is the word that you use, and that that's what we should always remember no matter what we're going, what we're going through. You know, I I really think that that's I don't know, that just kind of sits well with me. And that's that's ahead of my schedule here, my podcast. But I think that's really what resonates with me too, is being able to just know that we are all these individual souls. And there's a lot inside of us that we just need to unpack sometimes. We've let the heaviness of life and the the fastness of life kind of take us in places that maybe we never really meant to go. And if we could just seek ourselves inward and you know, just really get a sense of what were we supposed to do and can we correct it today? Can we move more in that direction? Can we be more open with ourselves? And I don't know. It sounds sounds pretty, pretty cool to me, actually. Maybe we'll have to just try one of those readings. We'll see. But um, anyway, please like and share and uh and subscribe to this podcast. I would love that for all of our listeners out there. Now, the lightning round is just really quick and easy. I'm I'm noticing the time I've gone way beyond. I'm so sorry, Catherine. Your story I'm sorry too. I was part of it. Your story is hard to bring into like you know 45 minutes. So um these lightning round questions are kind of quick. Think of yourself on a like a kitchen timer and just the first thing that comes out. So morning person or night owl? Morning, morning, okay. Beach, forest, or mountains.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

All of the above.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

Um no, a a mossy ancient forest. Okay, mossy ancient forest. Okay, got it. What is one place in the world you would still love to visit? Where haven't you been, Catherine Brown?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

I want to go to Lithuania. Uh, that's where my dad's side of the family is from. And in my own journey in my past, I've rejected certain things from that lineage, and it's pending that I go back to some dark ancient forest in Lithuania and see what's available there for me and make that connection on a visceral level. Okay. And what always makes you laugh? Um, my love Jeffrey used to be a professional musician, and every morning he brings me in um, it's not coffee, it's like a mushroom blend, coffee-esque thing. And every single morning it comes with like a little jingle, a little song. And it can be one day it's reggae, the next day it's like Frank Sinatra croonery, the next day it's like bunk.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:09

And so every single morning he brings me that in bed, and like the morning starts with giggles.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:16

Yeah, I was gonna say, I I would I could see that. I don't know how you would not laugh with that a little bit. If someone gave you an unexpected free day like this weekend, how would you spend it?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:28

Ooh, um a classic for me is always just creating. I I love food and I love creating experiences around food where it's not pretentious, it's just beautiful. So I make what I call like enchanted picnics. And so to take it to some gorgeous forest, you know, maybe overlooking water or on like creekside or something. And I've got like this little, like it's a little kids' teepee tent, and I fill it up with like like sheepskin rugs and and candles and incense and beautiful food with all of the edible flowers, and just basically like a picnic like meant for like fairy royalty. Okay creating one and then sharing it with a loved one or a couple of loved ones and just lounging and being leisurely and reveling in in beauty and nature and great nourishing food. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:34

That is not what I thought you would say, but it does fit, it does fit after everything I've heard in the way you describe the tent and the things.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:43

I mean, that's kind of decadence, like absolute decadence, and just realizing that, like, wow, you don't have to wait for that situation to come along.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:52

You can create it for yourself, create it for yourself, absolutely. So, what is one word you hope people use to describe you? Integritus. Okay, that's a really good word. And the last one is what are you most grateful for today?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:15

Curiosity.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:19

Those are good words. Curiosity, integrity. We've learned so much today already from you. The one thing that I still would love for you to share is how can they get a hold of you, the listeners. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:30

If you're on social media, um, I am mostly on Instagram, and it's uh at spirited, um, but it's at S-P-I-R-I-T dot e dot d. Um my like I'm willing to put my email out there. People can email direct if they're not, I understand if you're not on social media. It's at Kathy C-A-T-H-Y brown, just like the color, 2100 at Gmail. Um, but if you go on, if you're able to get on my Instagram um or you email me direct, I can send you a link, uh, Linktree, and that has all of my upcoming events that has how to sign up for my newsletter, that has how to schedule a session. Um, so if you go on Linktree, it's the same handle, spirited, spirit.e.d. And that's how you do that. I I started a website, it was not that functional. I'm in the middle of redoing it and I'm not techie.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:44

So I am fumbling through it.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:49

Um, when that's up, the it is spirited soul work. Spirited soul work.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:56

Okay. Well, that's really cool. Spiritedsoul work.com. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:00

So this is maybe gonna push me to actually sit down and do it. I'm not a computer girl, I'm not a social media girl. Um, and I know I do understand that these things are important.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:11

Well, you know, you like you said, we all have our, I guess I'm gonna roll put it all together, we all have our strengths and weaknesses, right? And I mean, if you could do IT too, I just I would be like, what the heck can't you do? So it's kind of it's kind of refreshing. You can't do technology. I can't, and I don't want to. That's funny. Oh well, and so I've been calling you Katherine, but are do you go by Kathy? No, I go by Katherine.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:38

Okay when I was younger, I went by Kathy, and that's you know, when I got my first email and all that, and so Kathy's still around in some places. Okay. I hit a certain point in my life and I was like, just because people have been calling me Kathy for so long, yeah, doesn't mean that they need to continue. I can choose which one I prefer, and I prefer Katherine.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:03

Okay, that's good. We like Catherine too. You seem more fitting as a Catherine. When you said Kathy, I was like, what?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:08

Who's when I say it? I'm still like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:12

Who is that?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

That email address is from like the beginning of the internet days.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:18

Hey, I still have people with AOL. So this is nothing. This is a hotmail one too. Well, Catherine, thank you for sharing your story, your heart, and your journey with us today. And thank you to our listeners for joining us for another episode of Women in the Businesses They Own. And so please always remember that. Well, I always like to say today, you told your story beautifully. I really think that everything that you shared was amazing. Just being vulnerable, being authentic is what I'm always looking for so that people can really feel the information is coming from our heart or this deep inside, this passion, this energy, you know. And so I hope that they feel it as much as I think our conversation really shared today. And so today, thank you for sharing your story. You shared it beautifully. And always remember she came, she spoke, and she inspired me. And we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:14

Bye. And thank you. Yeah, you die.