Episode 31: Your Voice, Lost it? Find it Again with Katie Wysocki

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Your Voice, Lost It? Find It Again with Katie Wysocki

One conversation can change the way you think about yourself.

In this episode of Women & the Businesses They Own, host Shari Hooper welcomes licensed counselor and entrepreneur Katie Wysocki, founder of State of Mind Counseling, for a meaningful conversation about confidence, communication, emotional wellness, and finding your authentic voice.

Together they explore healthy boundaries, overcoming people-pleasing, developing stronger relationships, embracing vulnerability, and why every person deserves to feel heard.

Whether you're a business owner, leader, parent, or someone navigating life's challenges, Katie offers practical tools and encouragement to help you communicate with confidence and build healthier relationships.

Because sometimes the most important voice you'll ever hear...

...is your own.

If you're searching for podcasts about women entrepreneurs, confidence, leadership, communication skills, emotional wellness, or healthy boundaries, this episode is for you. 

*You can reach Katie Wysocki using her email at hello@stateofmindgr.com or her website at stateofmindgr.com*

This podcast is presented by Summit Wealth Partners, LLC, a registered investment adviser that only conducts business in jurisdictions where it is properly registered or is excluded or exempted from registration requirements. Registration as an investment adviser is not an endorsement of the firm by securities regulators and does not mean that the adviser has achieved a specific level of skill or ability. The firm is not engaged in the practice of law or accounting.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to Women and the Businesses They Own, where we celebrate the women behind the business and their stories and their purpose and their journeys that shape who they are today. All of it. I love it. I'm your host, Sherry Hooper at Summit Wealth Partners. And each episode we have meaningful conversations with women who are making a difference in the lives of others. Today's guest is Katie Waisaki, founder of State of Mind Counseling, right? State of Mind Counseling here in Grand Rapids. Is that correct? Yeah, the technical legal like registered name of State of Mind Grand Rapids. Oh, State of Mind, Grand Rapids. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Katie provides a safe, compassionate, and non-judgmental space where people can share their stories, work through their life challenges, establish healthy boundaries, and ultimately find their own voice. So, Katie, thank you so much for being on the show today. I have been thrilled with all of the guests, and everyone brings a new excitement energy element to the podcast. And so thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. This is my first podcast. Very excited. So thanks for the opportunity. Oh, you're welcome. I hope that I'm breaking you in gently because I'm sure you'll have many more. Well, the very first question that I think, you know, even for myself, you and I had met, I believe, maybe met briefly at an event recently. Did we do it at Rising Together?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Um you I was actually we connected through Courtney from Harmonica. So I didn't see you at the event. Okay. Nope. She's joint email. So joint email.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Okay. So that's what I love about this show too, is then I am I don't know nearly as much about you as I would like to. And the same for our guests. So please tell us a little bit more about yourself. And I would love to know personally, you know, um and then we're, you know, talk about your business a little bit, tell it kind of get us up to date and give a good summary.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Yeah. So I grew up in the Grand Rapids area my entire life, except for the two years when I was away at college. I have a brother, my my parents, they're great. My kind of goal always in life. So we we had season tickets to Michigan football growing up. I went to my first game, I think was fourth grade with my dad. Fell in love with the campus ever since. Like, again, just kind of family tradition oriented. And as I was going through high school, I applied to colleges, you know, didn't really know what I wanted to do. I was never really science math oriented. So props to all of the people who are because we need them. I am not one of them. I was always more like English art-minded in that way. And when I didn't get into U of M right away as a high school senior, that's very hard to do for a lot of people. So I ended up going to Grand Rapids Community College. And I went there for two years, got my associates while I was there. I also worked as a tutor. So that was really exciting, a new thing for me. And then I got accepted to a couple of places in addition to U of M to transfer. And I ultimately, even though I got scholarships to some of the others, chose U of M without scholarship money because that was that was the dream, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:35

And they don't do a lot of scholarships from what I hear. So I mean they don't apparently they don't need to because people like yourself, that's the dream.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

It's it's it's the dream. And I think they have now like I think it's called the Michigan Promise, where they can help fund for different people in different situations. But in order, I'm guessing, to get scholarship money, it has to be that level up here. And I was kind of like thinking, what do I want to do? And psychology was always something I was interested in. I also am generally interested in like event planning and design and things like that. But I started to think of like, what do I want my life to look like when I grow up? Like, do I want to work on weekends like you have to for event planning? And I'd always kind of wanted a family. And so that was, I was like, no, I don't really want to do that. And I know it's kind of like popular and trendy now, but a lot of people would watch now, like, you know, documentaries, docuseries of mass murders, serial killers, crime-oriented, true crime-oriented things. That's kind of not, you know, all of the streaming services have them all out. Um, back then, prior to streaming services, I was renting books from the library, true crime books. I always had this desire to understand why people do what they do in hopes that if we can, you know, notice these things about people, notice these qualities or these patterns, what lends into significant crime, maybe we can take more proactive stance, put in services, put in social services, and then maybe that can help reduce some of the crime that we experience in life. And so I got my bachelor's in psych. I actually went as far at the time as to talk to the FBI to see what would need to be in the behavioral analysis unit, which is what that unit does, is speaks to people who are generally incarcerated or have been caught for their crimes and convicted, and gets all of their backstory to see like what are the patterns here. And then they kind of told me, like, oh yeah, in order to do that, you would have to be like undercover, you may have to work with significant crimes and all of this. And I was like, that doesn't feel conductive to a family. Undercover work, not you know, not really my thing. I kind of just wanted to talk to people. That's really all I wanted. I didn't want to have to carry a weapon and trick people in my mind. And so I was like, well, I'm right, I'm gonna pivot. Bachelor's in psych, not much to do with after the fact. And so I kind of took some time off and I worked in a bank call center for a while, again, talking to people. I've worked retail in my life, I've worked in serving, always like this commonality of humanity and people. And I worked in the call center for a couple years, and during that time I started thinking like, what can I do? I obviously I need to get my master's. I'm I'm not gonna let my degree not come to you. So I worked really hard for it, and then I started exploring this option of counseling. And so then I ended up going to Central Michigan. They have a satellite campus in Grand Rapids where they did at the time. And I did two, two and a half years for that program. And so it was pretty much every other Friday evening and all day Saturday, but it allowed you to work during the week. And I did that. And then after that, you have to get, you have to go through like what's a practicum or pre-internship. And I did that at Anxiety Resource Center in the downtown Grand Rapids area. Phenomenal community resource for the record. I will always hype them up for their work they do. And I did open groups for adults experiencing anxiety, and that actually was very intentional on my part when we were going through our program. We had to learn how to hold groups and conduct groups. And yeah, I was really uncomfortable with the idea of that. Like very resistant. And so I was like, oh, this is a spot where I need to gain experience. And so that's what I sought out for my practicum is I'm gonna gain experience in doing groups in the event that I ever have to do it. I want to feel good about doing it. And then from there, my internship and where I accrued most of my hours, I worked in a pediatric autism clinic doing applied behavioral analysis. I also worked with the families to address like barriers, outcomes, you know, address some of their things going on of why sometimes it's hard to implement what we're doing in a clinic in their house. And I did that for a while and then COVID hit. And so my middle, because I have three kiddos, my middle was born January of 2020, so right before COVID hit, and I ended up staying home through COVID because also schools are closed, so I always had to stay home. And then in fall of 2020, I was like, well, I kind of want to get back at it. I got my full license at that point, and I reached out to a private practice in Grand Rapids who ended up hiring me, and I worked there for four, four and a half, five-ish years. And then in time when I was pregnant with my youngest, no, I there was just some changes happening, and uh my dream had always been to open my own thing, my own private practice. I wanted to do that. The timing was not necessarily ideal in my brain because I was pregnant, eventually having to, you know, go on maternity leave. But I was like, hey, the writing's on the wall for me. I had already kind of started State of Mind Grand Rapids because at the time we were contracted workers, so we all had to have LLCs when I first started there. So I already had the name. Um yeah, and so then I was like, well, let's do it. No better time than now. Again, leaning into the uncomfortability. I try really hard to not let my fear hold me back. And I started that process. It took a little bit, but all of my clients followed me. It was really great. It's been a really solid transition. It's been now about a little over a year. May was a year for the private practice, and it's all virtual right now. Maybe in time when my kids all go to school more full-time oriented, I would look at a space, but right now it's all virtual.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Oh, okay. So you work out of your home and you just do it all like by Zoom or or what have you, some sort of link that way.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Yeah. So I use a HIPAA compliant, like electronic health record-based system. So it's all there. It was actually the one I use at the previous private practice. I really wanted to keep it consistent for everybody, including myself. And so yeah, that's what we do.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

It seems like through these podcasts, so many of you gals have just decided to start your business in or through COVID. Or you're not necessarily in COVID. You went back to work in COVID, or you know, when you had an opportunity to go back and join the other practice. But then what you did, which is also similar, is you just decided to like, yeah, I'm pregnant and I can have a baby and go on paternity and still start my own business. It's really, you know, women are very resilient that, or even um, maybe resilience, not the best word I was thinking of, but certainly powering through whatever we have going on. So you have two little ones and you're on your third one, and you decide, yeah, now's the time. The writing's on the wall, I can do this. And you know, you're making it happen because the nice thing is, is you don't have to have an office right now. Everybody, if there was a good thing about COVID, it was that everybody's like, Yeah, yeah, we could do Zoom-ish, you know, right? Some some sort of version of what Zoom is, and you're making that work. So, well, tell me how what are your kids' names and ages?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Yeah, so my oldest, Brooklyn, she just turned 15, actually. 15. Oh, okay, got it. And then my middle Jax, he is six and a half, and my youngest, Carter, she is uh on those outskirts of two.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah, so the 15-year-old obviously is in school more, and hopefully is a built-in babysitter.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

A little, a little. She does phenomenal, she is a great babysitter. It's whether or not her siblings want to listen to her. Well, that happens in every household for sure. Yeah, I remember babysitter. So my brother is like three and a half years younger than me. We we joke about how back when house phones were a thing, we used to, I used to babysit. We're gonna use that very loosely. Um, and when we would argue, we would call my mom at work, and I don't know how this flew, but we would each pick up one end of the house phone and would be screaming into it of like trying to tell her our side, and she would be like, guys, I'm at work.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Like, knock it off, wait till I get home.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah, and then we'd be like, Oh, we need to fix this before she gets home.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Right, right. I do miss house phones, man. That was so nice that you could grab any because we would have a phone like in almost every room, right? It was just easy every other room, and everybody could be on the phone, or you could go do laundry and you could hear the phone ring. If you forget your cell phone now, you're just always like, Man, I missed that call.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

I think they're actually coming back. I thought I saw a company is coming out with a house phone or something similar to a house phone because you know the millennial generation is all about the nostalgia that we had for our childhood. That's what's selling right now, and yeah. So I I had a friend mentioned that. They're like, Do you see that's coming back? I think I might get it. Gotcha. Well, so are you currently married? I am. We have been together for like 10 years, married eight, we're about to hit eight, I think it is.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Okay, great. So he obviously is very supportive of I mean, because it's a lot to have three kiddos, and you have you're like trying to navigate high school and elementary school and a and a baby. That takes a lot of brain power right there. Just it's nice when they all flow similarity in ages, but you're all over the place on that one. So kudos to you. Thanks. But it's always nice when our spouses are supportive, obviously, and being able to do a business out of your house and knowing that you were going to be on maternity. I mean, you know, you're not getting a maternity benefit when you go off on your own, right? So, I mean, if in in really what you said was your practice, what you were consulting. So there was not a maternity benefit necessarily there either, correct? Correct.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

And a lot of companies, you know, it's not, I don't believe it's mandated or there's no legal stance, at least right now. I advocate that there should be, but it all depends on where you work and the benefits and all of those pieces in general.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

So something that's interesting to me though is that you were able to take all your clients. So did you not have any type of a non-disclosure or non-compete? Because that seems really nice that you were able to take them with you.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Um, in the therapy world, similar to doctors' offices or dentists, right? Um, a lot there's ethics involved in it. And depending on your ethics board and individual states and laws and things, a lot of people are more tied to a therapist than they are to a practice. And a lot of people, I so when I told all of the people I work with, I was like, hey, I'm gonna be transitioning to starting my own thing. You have you have options. I'm as far as therapists go, I'm on the upfront, very honest end of like whether it's billing or policy or whatever it is. And so I was like, you are welcome to come with me. You can stay with the practice and I can suggest somebody here who maybe have a similar approach, or if you want something totally different, tell me, I can suggest. Or if you want to pause or find somebody outside of me and outside of the practice, that's always an option too. And that's part of that, like finding your own voice of like teaching and helping people advocate for what they want and what's best for them. And everybody was pretty unanimous of like, hey, I still want to continue our work. Okay. And so to start over, yeah. Yeah, because once you know, there's a part when you're starting therapy of like, here's some of my backstory, here's some of these things going on, and then to start over is kind of repeating the stories instead of like, hey, we were already addressing this pattern, we already know the root of the pattern, but now how do we work on the behavior modification and the thoughts surrounding this pattern kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

So what are the the one of the questions that I had in my mind was, and I like to ask this is is when you were little, now you said you're in fourth grade, you went to the big house for a game, right? And then from ever since you had this goal of going to U of N, and you said even going to U of M, you weren't quite sure what you wanted as a degree. But we always, when we're little, always have these dreams of becoming something. What was your dream of becoming? Even as cute as or as whimsical as it might have been.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

What did you, what did you want to be? So I am a daydreamer by nature. Um, when I get an idea or something like I'm kind of good at or enjoy, it's like going to the nth degree in my brain of like, this is where I could take it. So there have been times I wanted to go be an actress. At one time, I probably wanted to be a model because that was, you know, America's next top model was on the TV, a designer of some sort. Like I said, I liked creativity. In high school, ironically, now I laugh about how like not this would not have been me, but I wanted to be an anesthesiologist. And so instead of taking Spanish in high school, I took Latin so I could get ahead in the medical community like world and know these Latin terms. Yeah. Yeah. So Latin's really hard. Did not love. And I also, like I said, not science-minded. So I learned that one. So you don't have to use it in counseling, how did the Latin's just not helping you in any way? No, the the two years I had to take a foreign language to graduate high school being Latin have not come back for me. And actually, I wish I would have stayed with Spanish. To Spanish, would that have helped with some of your clients? Um, it could have, but in order to graduate from U of M at the time when I was there, you had to have like an intermediate level two of a foreign language. And so I had to restart Spanish all over again because I spent four years not taking it. And so everything I learned in grade school fell off. And so it was that's where if I would have just kept with it, I probably could have tested out.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Oh, gotcha. That would have been a benefit for you. Yeah, you don't test out a Latin.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

They don't look at Latin as no, that's not a hyped up benefit of you know, employment education is not Latin. Yeah, where did you go to high school? I went to West Catholic.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Oh, okay. I was with the when you said that about having Spanish so early. I wondered if you were part of Forest Hills because they have that Spanish immersion and and so it's like all in Spanish at Ada Vista.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Okay, yeah. I know a couple other high schools and you know, school systems are like that now. Back then, we just have to take two years of foreign language to graduate.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Yeah. So West Catholic, I always hear, is kind of tight. That community are your kids going there too as a second generation or third. I don't know. Maybe everyone's went there.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

My my mom did go there. My dad went to Union, and so that's how we ended up there. Um, we explored West Catholic as an option, and then we ended up going with a public school over this way for our kids. And yeah, so far it's been really great. Good trade.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Yeah, definitely. I just learned that. So somebody that I was talking to said, West Catholic is so tight, it's just this tiny community. Everybody knows everybody, and you get all these. I had to ask you, are you doing a second or third generation?

SPEAKER_00 19:29

I needed to connect to it's a lot of legacy, and really it's it is a phenomenal community. And I still have a soft spot for West Catholic, but you know, there's also you have to look at cost benefit, what you want to do, all of these things. And I did again choosing the uncomfortable, trying something new. We we I lean into that. I don't, it's a thing.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

You just love you like taking the the more difficult path and seeing where it leads, just kind of pushing on through. Well, you described, you know, when you were deciding on what you're doing today in the in the counseling area, you kind of described how you liked the crime stuff and the behaviors of these criminals. And was there any one thing that was personal that drew you to this? Was there any uh crime that occurred in your neighborhood or something within your family? Nothing that actually drew you in personally, it was just it was just that you liked crime, the true crime shows.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Okay, yeah, it's it was to, I think, to more understand human nature and what makes a person a person, you know, that ongoing debate of nature versus nurture and how that can manifest. And yeah, I mean, crime is a part of everyday society in most societies, and it was saying, like, hey, I'm seeing these bigger crimes starting to happen, either that or they're just getting more news now with social media, they're prevalent and they're talked about very significantly. And saying, I feel like there's something we could do about this. What and again, figuring out why people are the way that they are.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Is that a lot of what then? I mean, this is gonna sound crazy, but so are a lot of your um patients, I think you'd call them, are a lot of your patients, are they coming from a criminal background, or do you have patients of all I mean, are you dealing with people all the time? Did you get in that world and all? Okay, so it's not really that.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Okay, so I work a lot with anxiety. I would say anxiety is so I grew up with childhood anxiety that went undiagnosed because back in the 90s, 2000s, ADHD was very prevalent of a diagnosis, but in childhood anxiety, especially a lot of diagnostic labeling is written more from a male based perspective because usually those are the researchers kind of thing. Um, so I had childhood anxiety. Looking back, it was pretty easy to spot, but back then. Then they weren't spot, they weren't looking for it. And so I grew up with childhood anxiety, and that's when I, like I said, I did open groups for anxiety at Anxiety Resource Center. And now, because I have personal experience with anxiety, in addition to clinical, that's where I'm seeing a lot of people come in, and just the understandings of being able to say, like, no, I understand how your brain is going there. My brain has gone there too. Here's different options for how to deal with it. So I would say anxiety, life transitions, parenting, college, all things I've kind of really, if I was gonna niche down and put it under headings, those would kind of be it.

unknown 22:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

So you have on your website it and it says you um every session is different because every person is different. So it's a great philosophy. Can you just um can you tell what somebody needs in a particular moment? Um, can you tell in the first session? You know, what or why do you say that?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah, it's because sometimes we well, first I let people know they are the experts of themselves. I'm just here to kind of guide this journey. And so part of the what I call a collaborative process is I always in the very first session, I'm like, you can tell me if something is not working, you can tell me if it is working. I want you to get out of this what you need to get out of it. It's not at all about me. And I also explain, you know, how I would discuss trauma, for example, where I say, I'm not gonna label something as traumatic for you. You get to label it that way for yourself if you choose to. If I start to see you alluding to, hey, this thing kept this thing happened, and I keep you keep going back to it, I may suggest, how about we talk about it next time? What would that look like? What support do you need before? What support do you need after? So, because a lot of times therapy is one of the first, if not the only space they've ever talked about it or confronted it. And so it's kind of figuring out what people need and having them have that voice in there of, yeah, maybe I need to confront it, or I'm ready to confront it, or maybe we give it a couple more sessions and we do it later. And so that's part of it is starting to kind of pick up on cues of what people might need in there. Sometimes it's you know, a really just empathetic, like, I hear you, I see you. Sometimes things are, hey, you've been repeating this pattern for a few months now. What we've talked about it, like what's going on? Why are why is this resurfacing and kind of that gentle honesty of a kind of call-out per se? And that's yeah, it's kind of figuring out each person where they sit with it and different pieces like that.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

How do people find you? I mean, how how do how do you get new patients all the time? I mean, are they coming in from referrals or do you have this just amazing website with all the right wording that people find through Google? How do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Um, I'm still figuring out how to get all of the, you know, all of the referrals in. It's there's a lot of therapists in Grand Rapids, which I think is a great thing, a very positive thing. Um, my website, I get some on psychology today. Also, I'm paneled with multiple insurance companies where then you kind of because at least in the Michigan-grand rapids area, they a lot of people want to use their insurance benefits, which makes sense. And so that's an important factor for a lot of people. But it's also again speaking towards what people want to address and be seen for, and just they're every therapist is different. Some therapists are very gentle and have a very gentle approach. Some kind of similar to myself are a little bit more up front in that process. And I often joke with people. I'm like, I'm not the kind of therapist you see in like the cartoons that used to be in the Sunday paper where you're like sitting on a couch and I'm saying, How do you feel? Tell me about that. Like sometimes we might be laughing, sometimes we're joking, sometimes we we are talking about a true crime documentary, and sometimes we're talking about reality TV and looping it all in of like this is the human experience. Sometimes I'll give an example where maybe I missed the mark to take it outside of somebody to give a different perspective.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Yeah. There's I I would think that people would come in with uh a lot of different feelings and emotions and like you said, anxieties. And and if you're dealing with high schoolers, if you're dealing with college, I mean, they have uh a very tough life to live with the amounts of social media and expectations and different things that are on them. So, how long does it take for you to go down this path with a patient normally? Is there um, you know, I mean, I can't imagine you can knock it out in one session. There's probably gonna be a couple of months involved, don't you think? Just to first to get them to open up and to discover the real issue. Sometimes the underlying issue might not be what they said at all. You are you are right there.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

So it takes a little bit to, and people, I again part of the collaborative process is do you want to come weekly? Do you want to come bi-weekly? Those are usually the two options I suggest up front. Um, as people go longer, I am comfortable with once a month, but you kind of have to get into a rhythm and understand that what you get out of once a month is very different than if you're going to something more frequently. Um, it takes a little bit in the beginning to kind of just get to know each other and start to put stories and names and patterns together. And so that's I would say maybe three to six months, depending on the person, their level of vulnerability, um, building up trust and that. And then it depends also what people want to work on. For some people, just understanding, hey, I experience anxiety. Here's some coping skills. That's sometimes what people are looking for. And that might be more short-term than, hey, how does this communication pattern present? Is it serving me? How's it impacting relationships? What am what relationships should I look at setting boundaries for? How do I do this? Who am I? Like those are much more long-term therapy, generally speaking.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

I can imagine that. I I was just thinking um when you were talking about that, my my mind wanders a little bit too. So I'm gonna go back to what you said is you've been with your husband eight years. And so, but your career's been going a little bit longer than that. So is Waisaki your maiden name, or did you take his name and then restart with all of your patients? I'm just interested. You know, as women, we just find ourselves with name changes all the time. And sometimes because our career starts before our marriage does, we you know, we end up using a different name. So what did you choose?

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Um, I so when I was going through my program, I think we had been engaged at that point. So it was my maiden name. And then I got fully licensed. And once we got trying to think in there, wait, I would have been fully licensed. Yeah, it was in there. I think I had to change some things when I took his last name.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Oh, okay, you did, yeah. I mean, it just happened, and you think I am never doing this again. That name change thing is not easy.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

No, it's such a process, and it's like you have to do the right steps. And I'm like, goodness gracious. I feel like with the internet, it should be like a couple check boxes and like send in a document. Like you guys have my documents, it should be a little easier, but yeah, I know, right? I get it.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

And uh I mean I'm with you. Hey, is there um a TED talk or any type of podcast that you might listen to that you think is really good for even your own? Maybe there's some sort of spiritual growth, maybe there's some consistent, you know, work needs or growth that are in your world, or or even that you would recommend to some of your patients that has just been a really good, consistent person to help build people up. I mean, is there anything that you're in that you listen to?

SPEAKER_00 30:13

So I don't know. I listen to some, I watch, you know, different things. I read often. I'm a decent reader. I I'm not the person who reads like a book a day by any capacity, but you know, 15 to 20 books a year, give or take. Um in that I have realized I'm someone who kind of collects ideas and perspectives from a lot of people. Cause I kind of think that's what makes the human experience. I actually saw it as a reel on Instagram about how one of the beautiful things about even if a relationship is no longer present in our life, we collect things from each spot in our life. And so, like, for example, my best friend from seventh grade, who's still one of my best friends, my Starbucks order is the same today in my 30s as it was when we were in seventh grade because she was the one who showed me that, and I've loved it since, and that's the only thing I get from Starbucks. And so it's it's part of that. So I a book, and I think he actually has a podcast as well. I don't know if you've ever heard of Michael Easter. He came up with yeah, Michael Easter. He came up with the comfort crisis. It's a book. I thought that was very interesting. Perspective of how we have gotten almost overly comfortable in modern society to the point that we don't challenge ourselves and we are almost resistant to it. And you know, that's somewhat of a privileged perspective. Like I can acknowledge there are very significant hardships people have faced. We're like, yeah, maybe we're not gonna look at having to get uncomfortable right then because we need to establish safety, stability, consistency first before we can do that. But in general, I think there is a lot of value in challenging yourself and being uncomfortable in a safe fashion. And so that's something I've kind of leaned into. Um, I do appreciate the radical acceptance perspective of the let them theory from Mel Robbins and how she's marketed it, at least where it is more digestible within society. Um, the book Atomic Habits, I think, is really great for habit formation, and especially when people are feeling stuck, it talks about different mindsets and different ways to establish habits. The other interesting thing is I I pull from reality TV. But I the Jersey Shore that has been a bit, huh? That's right. They're actually on their final season, I believe, on MTV. It's it's the family vacation one, so not the like party one. This is them with like spouses and kids and building businesses, so it's not what it used to be. But Mike, the situation on there, he went through significant addiction and now he's built like rehab centers. And one of his quotes, I often kind of use it for prospective-oriented purposes, is nothing changes if nothing changes. Oh, that's for real. I know. And so people laugh, but I I always give credit to where I found it. So it's always really funny to say, like, hey, I got this from like the situation. Um, another good thing that I have pulled recently from reality TV, someone asked a question. It was on a dating show, super cheesy. It's kind of where I zone out and let my brain turn off, is on these, you know, cheesy things.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

I understand that.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

I always call it my one hour of stupid TV. At the end of the day, I just you know, your your head feels full. You just need a break where you're not engaged. So I get it.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

I love that you okay. So, what did this one say? It somebody asked one of the person they were thinking of dating a question because they were like, Hey, I have a fear of failure, which a lot of people say, which again prevents us from being uncomfortable, holds us back in a lot of ways. It's are you actually afraid of failure or are you afraid of somebody else seeing you fail?

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Oh that's really it, isn't it? That's like right there on the nose, seeing else seeing you fail.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Sure. Because if nobody sees you fail, how does anybody know what happened? You're more likely so it's more of like the perception of what somebody else thinks of how you did this or what happened there.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Yeah. I think that the one that you said where nothing changes, if nothing changes, it just it makes me think um right away of the um oh shoot was right on the tip of my tongue, but ultimately uh it's the definition of uh um insanity, right? That that's kind of what it is. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Like the definition of insanity is you if you keep doing the same thing all the time, you're gonna get the same result. So nothing changes of nothing changes. It's just kind of like a a Jersey moment. I can hear it in his accent too. I always say you don't know what you don't know. I mean, sometimes he's right. I love that. And I say that all the time because in my world, you know, it's just like, wait, I there is a lot that I can bring to the conversation, and yet people don't realize how much. And I'm always like, well, you don't know what you don't know. People need to explore and they have to ask questions and they have to, you know, you know, be willing to try working with different people and finding out more of what you can what you get out of that relationship in that professional sense. But um, okay, so one of the phrases on your website really really caught me too, and it was finding your voice. So, what does that mean to you? How are you helping? I I mean, I get let me say something really quick. To me, and maybe I want to just know if I'm understanding it correctly. Finding your voice to me would be um, I I guess I'm thinking of kids, but it would be anybody is just being able to have that confidence to stand up and you know, being able to believe in yourself and and saying what you want to say in front of who you want to say it to, I guess is a little bit is just being in internally strong. Did I am I close?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Yeah, I would say it's in there. A lot of times I say it's being able to say it even when your voice is shaking. Okay. Um, again, I'm gonna attribute this one to Taylor Swift. I know some people love her, some people don't. That's not the point. But when I saw her in concert many, many years ago when she first started out, she talked about being fearless isn't the absence of fear, it's having fear and still jumping. And so, in finding and using your voice, it's paying attention to what do I like? Who am I, what do I think, and being able to be authentic and speak on that, it kind of goes back into that question we said about failure, where if I say the wrong thing, how is this going to impact me? Are people not going to like me? And it's recognizing, no, I can still work through that. I can still continue to ask questions, I can challenge myself, I can do all of these things, even if somebody thinks or feels differently.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

I think that that that's good. I like it. That that it may it does make me laugh a little bit though, as I think about where you're getting all of your like it's relatable though. I will say that because people don't really want to just know that you got this from you know Einstein's theory of gravity, like what people want to be able to just have something relatable and like, oh yeah, I saw that or I know them. And it does, it's it's when it's relatable and it's almost tangible, I think it sticks with people a little bit better. So a little better. How about boundaries? It's always a word that we hear so often today. So, how would you explain healthy boundaries to somebody?

SPEAKER_00 37:53

I have explained boundaries as not walls because walls keep everybody and almost everything out, but more of like your front door. If somebody is pounding on your front door in the middle of the night and they're cussing you out, you're probably not gonna unlock the door and answer it, right? You want healthy, respectful communication. And so it's allowing boundaries to also have to be flexible as long as it's safe to do so. So I'm gonna exclude like the really big, not like safety issues and that just general boundaries are those doors. It's not meant to control other people, it's how we are going to hold ourselves accountable and safe in various situations. So, for example, again, if you were sitting here yelling at me and cussing me out, it's not me saying my boundary is that you can't talk to me that way. My boundary is saying I'm not going to stay in this situation if that's how you're going to continue to speak to me. I will exit the situation if this continues.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Okay. You know, one thing that I don't think that we really um touched on enough is I'm going to put all of your contact information, you know, when I post the links and what have you. But um, so if somebody were to refer you, you they would call you, you have a separate business line or your cell phone or an email, and then they do you, or does your website have? I didn't really look, do you have um maybe contact forms or different patient type forms? Give us the process of what that looks like if we're brand new to you.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Yeah, I've had people reach out in phone call, text message, email, and the contact form on the website, and all of the contact information is on there, the email and the phone number, and it says you can text. A lot of people generally prefer text, email, or the contact form just because of phone tag and life is kind of busy. Um, so a lot of people will reach out. I will always kind of verify is what I'm experienced in a right fit for you. And I tell people always, I want therapy to work for you. So we can start, we can meet your assessing to see if you think it's a good fit. I'll make sure that I think it's a good fit as well, that you know, our personalities mesh and that I'm within my wheelhouse. And if you don't think this is a right fit, let me know. I'm not gonna take offense to that because I want it to work for you. And if that's not with me, it's with somebody else. Um, so we will set up an intake session, we'll go over all of the forms you filled out, kind of start to ask questions, get in depth. They can ask me questions about the process. Usually it takes two to three sessions to start to really get comfortable, but yeah, sometimes depending on availability, people I have availability usually within a week or two, but that's dependent on schedule fit.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

Yeah. Do you work all Monday through Friday? Certainly, or is it just certain days of the week?

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Um, I try, so I have realized like one of my boundaries is kind of what works best for me as I tend to do back-to-back sessions. Okay, and so I do a couple days each week and it flexes. I think one week is Monday, Tuesday, and the next week is like a Wednesday, Thursday. It also allows me space where if I somebody needs an emergency session, I can fill it in in one of those days and not have to, you know, upend when emergencies do happen. And that's also part of just how I'm building things currently.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Okay. Well, and it sounds like that works really well with family. I mean, that's one of the things that I think that you know, us gals have to always balance is we're the ones either figuring out daycare for the kids or you know, packing their backpacks in the morning, making sure everything is knocked out for school and we haven't forgotten something or getting a call from school that you need something, those drives up to school. Oh my gosh, it's like really can we get an extra pair of clothes in your locker or something? Yeah, so it's a lot, so it's nice that you've been able to find that little bit of balance. Are you gonna have any more children?

SPEAKER_00 41:50

I don't think so. Oh, three three's good. I may be, I might be good at three. I'm realizing this outnumbered thing is really it a lot of mental energy, it's really great. I love my kids, but I think we might be done at three. Also, I like to travel, and most hotels and stuff are not set up for families of six. It's you can get on a family of five, especially with a little and like a pack and play. But then you're starting to get into either bigger rooms, houses, those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Yeah. There was one thing that my mom always said to me, and she'd say it today. She's like, you know what? If you either stop at two and you have a table for four, and there's one, you know, one kid for each of you. But once you hit three, you're already outnumbered, and you don't even notice the fourth and the fifth and the sixth. You just get a bigger table, the bigger kids start helping the little kids, and it just it just kind of works. But three, she said, was the hardest. And so I'm from a family of four. She just she's like, after three, it was it was hard. And she had four. And I it's amazing, even to me growing up in the not me growing up, my kids growing up in the forest hills area in my neighborhood. These these, I mean, I knew so many women. I held a Bible study in my home for years, and these women that were had four and five and six kids. I was like, How do you guys do it today? You know, I mean, I I recognize it in my parents' generations, they were, you know, one of eight, always, it seemed like seven, eight, ten kids, maybe back then. Then they kind of toned it down, maybe four or five or whatever. And our generation, it seems like you said you only have a brother, but I mean, I always felt like there was more kids. And now I I I thought that we were, you know, kind of having two or three kind of thing. And then all of a sudden there's this uh neighborhood that I live in, and they have these multitudes of kids. And I thought, this is just a really strange demographic. But I thought it was amazing to see all these kids like it was great. It was great, but um not for me. Not in working, too, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:54

You can there's only so many yeah, I think when the Know parents used to have you like you said five, six, seven, eight kids. That was pr for the most part his single parent or like single working parent households, and then the other parent was staying home. Whereas in modern times and society now, it's a lot of dual income earners, and that makes a difference in how to manage and keep a family. And then also I think younger generations, kind of starting with millennials and on down, are very emotionally aware. And they're therapy is part of that, just in general, the access to idea is very different than when we were younger. You know, we had to grab encyclopedias. I don't know that they know what those are now, but you can get stuff off social media pretty quickly or Google. Um, and so I think there's also the conversation of like, how do I want to raise my kids? What is my emotional capacity for raising my kids in a way that they understand and how they treat other people and how they're treated? And then again, that comes into the mental ode piece. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Well, so what would you what would a younger self, you know, what would your younger self say about you today? Or what would you want your younger self to say about you today?

SPEAKER_00 45:12

I think she would be pretty proud of where we've gotten, what we've accomplished, the people in our lives, and the relationships we've invested into. I am also a super large advocate for community. And part of that is finding your own community. And I think, at least in my 20s, there was a lot of wanting to be part of spaces and communities that maybe weren't for me and trying to fit into them. And so realizing that, hey, in your 30s, you're going to find your people. And you're not going to have to beg to sit at their table. They're just going to pull out the chair and say, Hey, I've been waiting for you.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

And so I think knowing that that is coming, I wouldn't have changed anything that I experienced by any capacity because it got me to where I am. Super cliche, I know. Um, but knowing what's coming and the people in our lives now, and I think that that's a beautiful thing to look forward to because 20s are hard for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

They are. I know. If I had to go back and like start an again, I don't think I would go back to even my 20s. I might just somewhere in my early 30s start again. You know, you feel like I don't mind being a little bit younger, but I don't want to go too far back. I want to have at least some of the knowledge. Some of those experiences don't need to be done again.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

No, we learned the lessons. We'll keep them with us, but I don't know that I want to go through that again.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

No, exactly. I know. Oh my gosh. Okay. So um the last question that I really have for you as we're talking about your business is is just, you know, really, what would summarize the business or kind of, you know, for people that are feeling stuck or were or excuse me, overwhelmed or just not sure where to begin and to be able to use your services, if something like this just kind of resonated with them. Can you help us just summarize and give us the final notes from you?

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Yeah, I would say life is a series of choosing between two hard things. It's really hard to be stuck and it's really hard to be uncomfortable and do that reach out. But like I said earlier, nothing changes if nothing changes. So if you aren't enjoying where you're at, I would say reach out. Send the email, say, hey, I'm stuck, I'm going through stuff, I just need perspective, or I'm feeling really anxious, I'm feeling depressed, whatever it is, and just start there. In habit formation, starting is usually the hardest thing to do. But once you kind of get over that hump, you can start to build up the tolerance and tolerating that discomfort and working through that process. So I would say just send the email, send, fill out the contact form. And like I said, whether it's with me or somebody else, if your life is not where you want it to be, it's short. So so just do the thing. Send send it.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Life is short. Though the one thing I see all the time is YOLO. And sometimes I look at that and I think, oh my gosh, another acronym. What does that one mean? You know, like I'm always I'm always like, okay, brain, click in. What does that mean? And that's you only live once, right? And so life being short and you only live once. I mean, don't live in pain or or in some sort of discomfort in any way, right? Just kind of I understand that that's very inviting of you.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Yeah.

unknown 48:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

And there are people who want to help. There are people who want to see you and they want to hear what you have to say. And so it's not that any voice is more important. It's you getting to know yourself and choosing that life that you want to have.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

That's great. I love that. That's a great summary right there. So before we continue, if you're enjoying today's conversation, please take a moment to like and subscribe and share this podcast, women and the businesses they own. We would be grateful. I really love to share the stories of all of these women that I have on here. And so um, we're gonna move and transition to this uh lightning round. This is always a fun favorite part because it's gonna be kind of supposed to be a little bit more rapid fire, but if you get stuck, it's okay. There's no timing, no kitchen timer on here. So um a little bit of uh of personality coming out of Katie right now. So are you a coffee, tea, or diet coke drinker?

SPEAKER_00 49:38

Um, one cup of black coffee, unless it's at Starbucks. Occasionally it's a Java chip, but otherwise it would be Coke. I don't like Diet Coke. Sorry, Diet Coke drinkers, straight Coke or a or frozen Coke. Again, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

Oh, I'm glad you brought that up because when you were talking about your seventh grade friend and got you on this perfect drink that you've always had to Starbucks, I meant to ask for all of our listeners, but I think I heard Java chip.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Java chip. I don't even think it's on the menu anymore, but I still ask for it. And they've nicely provided it. I don't know at if there's an additional cost, but sometimes you gotta treat yourself a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

I remember those, they didn't have the whipped cream with the little chips on top, even. Oh, they should never take that one off the menu. Yep. What's your favorite way to recharge after a long week?

SPEAKER_00 50:29

I either reality TV, uh, I have a garden that it's been this is the second year, so I really love gardening. There's a lot of I like to try to be in nature. Again, that's part of changing modern life a little bit. Yeah. Also, I'm a napper. I like to nap.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

That's perfect. If you find time with everything else that you just said him, you can nap, good for you. So I love gardens. I have wanted one forever, and I just don't know how to go out there and start digging holes myself. I really feel like I need support in that area. And my neighborhood is not conducive of you, can't even have a fence, and we have rodents, deer, everything. So someday I am not giving up. But what's in your garden?

SPEAKER_00 51:12

I have a cup flower section, and then I have three raised beds. We have corn, and I'm trying to grow pumpkins. I've been trying for watermelon, those are really finicky, but we have all like fruits, vegetables, herbs, all of the things in there. We try new stuff. This, like I said, this is our second year, but our raspberries are thriving. I think they're trying to take over actually everything currently.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Oh, the raspberries are amazing. So, do the kids love to go out there and they just eat it fresh off the vine, kind of thing, or the bush, or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

Well, then they get to, you know, pluck it. They also get to part of what I really love about gardening is the delayed gratification. That's where it really counteracts modern society of like streaming service where you just click and you get whatever you want. They get to see it grow and they get to see, like, nope, it's not ready. We still have to wait. So it's all patience, being patient-oriented and just seeing the process.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

But if you have things like raspberries, you said, or strawberries, or even like little cherry tomatoes, those are just so amazing. And and they can kind of eventually, it's like they're ready, mom, and they can just pop them in their mouth. Yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

They'll walk up with handfuls of things, and it's we wash them and then we eat them, all of the stuff.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

Oh my gosh. Okay, so do you like a beach vacation, a mountain cabin, or something different? Or what would the different be?

SPEAKER_00 52:32

All of the above. So we honeymooned in Hawaii, and that has a special place in my heart. We've been to the Smoky Mountains, absolutely adore that. I like I said, I like to travel, so I'll find something anywhere. My really bad habit with travel is every time we're somewhere and I love it, I keep trying to move. And my husband's like, We no, we can't just pick up and move to Tennessee today. And I'm like, but they have a great school district right over here. So again, I fall in love with places, and actually, one of the cool things about my travel that I've started to do is I have shelves that like hang up like a lot of people do. And instead of just having random things on them, I've started to put something that I get from vacation on them. Okay, and that collecting nostalgia, like these all have a story way.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

Yeah, yeah, exactly. They all have a story. I was looking at because I've been trying to do just hitting things in Michigan. I'm like, gosh, we have a great state, we have beautiful coastal towns, if you will, like whatever. I'm like, I just I drive on the freeway, miss all the exits, and just get where I want to be. So I've been a little bit more um, I guess, uh, intentional about trying to get to a couple of these. And then I said, I need to create a little map or a little journal about just my day in this town. My mom had said to me that day, she's like, Well, they had one in the store. We just left. We were in Frankfurt a week. It was like really, it was like a coastal town book of Michigan or whatever. I'm like, maybe Amazon will have it. I need to look it up because I just think it'd be cool to be able to see which ones would be in the book and then just put your adventures down or something. Like you said, I mean, I ended up picking up a fish dish. It was just a very narrow long fish. And I was, I took it up to the counter. I'm like, what do you do with this? You know, how would you use it? I said to her, how would you? She's like, Well, you don't have to use it for food. You could decorate, right? It could just be it a piece. And I thought, yeah, that's great. Well, in one week's time, when I went back up north, I took it over to our neighbors. We were invited over for pizza, and I was like, I have to bring something. I cut up a bunch of cheese and threw some crackers on it, and I was like, here's my fish dish.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Here's my fish dish. I love it. No, like one of the things on my shelf, I we took a complete New England road trip last summer, and we ended up in Bar Harbor, Maine for the 4th of July. Phenomenal. And so I have a old lobster trap with a lobster buoy up there. I have like the dinner triangle that we got in Vermont when we stayed there. The dinner triangle.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

Yeah, and then you can speak of them with your kids. You can just be like you go by and the kids say, Mom, remember when we did this? And oh, those are that's a great way for memories. Okay, let me get back here. So um, you already kind of talked about the books and that you love to read maybe about 15 a year. Have you ever read a book more than once? What was it?

SPEAKER_00 55:21

Marley and Me.

SPEAKER_02 55:23

You read Marley and Me more than once?

SPEAKER_00 55:25

I don't know how I've tolerated it. I'm highly interested in it. When I was younger, I used to read it like once a year, and then I've also seen obviously the movie, it's phenomenal, but oh my that would be a tough one.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

Okay, well, let's switch gears from the tears to what makes you laugh.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

I love comedy, I think it has a really special place in getting people happy and laughing. I personally find Kevin Hart to be one of the funniest people. I know not everybody's into his style of comedy, but I've seen him when he was downtown at Van Handel, and I was grossly like on the floor crying, hyperventilating, laughing. So there's that.

SPEAKER_02 56:05

Laughing is so good for us. It gives us back ears. I truly believe it. But a good belly laugh when you hurt so bad from laughing. I love that. Yeah. Um, and then what is one word your closest friend, maybe that seventh grade Bessie today? Gall grown up. How what word would she use to describe you?

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Oh, that is a great one. Um probably either loyal or res or resilient, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 56:35

Either one, either one are very good ones to be able to be. So far, nobody has said a word. And thank goodness, I don't know how I'd respond to that. Yeah, my best friend calls me. I don't know. Who knows? I don't even want to say it, but that's great. Okay, so that's all we have in the lightning round today. And I always like to just kind of summarize a little bit about myself, just something that touched me or resonated with me. And I think it's really just kind of those points that you put on your website. It sounds like your website as as you navigate it, it's very um clean, precise, organized, and it just kind of hits home on some of those things. And and what I had touched on earlier too is what you had finding your voice was one. And I think when people see that, that's very inviting for them and to think, yeah, I want that. And then the other one that I had asked you is just about every person being different. And I think we know that in maybe deep down, but it's always a good reminder for us just to pause and say, yes, of course we're all different, and we're gonna have different problems and we're gonna have different ways of being able to come to those conclusions in a positive way as well. So um, so anyway, I hope that people will reach out to you and I'll have all that information for them to be able to get in touch with you. So so um anyway, I just wanted to be able to thank you again for being on Women in Wealth and the um businesses they own podcast. Your story matters, and today you told it beautifully. And um thank you to all of our listeners for spending time with their day. And hopefully, again, to please share it if this conversation um touched you in any way, or if it's meant for somebody else that you can share it with. And always remember she came, she spoke, and she inspired. And we'll see you next time.