S1B2 "Healthy Relationships Shape Parenting, Advocacy, & Recovery" w/ Jasmine Winters

The conversation we needed but rarely hear: what happens after survival, when the goal shifts from just getting through to actually living well. Jaye sits down with Jasmine Winters—mom, IVF morbidity survivor, and founder of Peaceful Minds Haven—to explore how partner presence, shared language, and community care change outcomes long before a crisis. What starts as a reflection on maternal morbidity opens into a deeper look at equitable relationships, dating as a single mom, and the small choices that teach our kids what love and advocacy look like in real time.

We talk straight about standards: the difference between a man with kids and an active dad, why equity beats vibes, and how to listen for what people say and what they don’t. Jasmine breaks down unlearning, the way calm can feel wrong if chaos once felt like home, and how to reach the people who aren’t in the room—through childcare at events, transit support, and training neighbors to teach neighbors. We map the eight dimensions of wellness and how they shape parenting: when work pays the bills but presence builds trust, when “balance” gives way to “harmony,” and when choosing softness becomes the bravest form of strength.

Mental health sits at the center. Emotional journaling, naming triggers by time and context, and recognizing depression beyond the clichés—sometimes as irritability, weight loss, or overproductivity that looks like winning but feels like drowning. Therapy helps us see patterns and rewrite them with rest we don’t have to earn. And yes, there’s joy: kids setting up at events, launching their own mini‑ventures, copying our laptops with toy keyboards, reminding us they’re always watching. By modeling boundaries, care, and advocacy, we’re raising a generation ready to notice and act.

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Transcript

Bonus Welcome And Why It Matters

Jaye Wilson 0:14

Hey girl, hey, it's your girl Jaye. Welcome to a special bonus episode of Melinated Mommy Talks the Podcast. Thank you so much for supporting the podcast by being a paid subscriber. Your paid subscription helps us continue to grow, finance the production costs, and improve the quality of the show. Your support means the world to us, and we want to thank you with exclusive content that shows our appreciation. Bonus content will include everything from parts of conversations with our guests that don't make it in their episodes, to additional episodes produced exclusively as bonus content, to the audio recordings of panels from Melinated Moms events. We hope you enjoyed this exclusive content that's just for you. This bonus episode features Jasmine Winters, who, if you listened to our last few episodes, you know is a mom who's experienced morbidity during her IVF pregnancy. Jasmine is the founder and executive director of Peaceful Minds Haven, a nonprofit focused on maternal health and wellness, with a little extra attention to give that mental health aspect of the work. We had an amazing conversation talking about her morbidity experience, how these kinds of events impact partners, and how vital it is to have them present, advocating and educated about everything that we go through right along with us. The conversation was so rich and deep, full of tears and laughs. But during our break, my producer did acknowledge how much he appreciated the conversation around partner involvement, and that just led me to switching things up a little bit. We continued the morbidity conversation, but couldn't help but talk about healthy relationships, my adventures in dating, our kids, and a few other things mixed in there. So this bonus episode is all about those other topics mixed into our morbidity chat. You'll get to hear our producer William talking at the beginning of this episode. And you'll see how the convo went a little left for a minute, but turned out to be a great little gem of good dialogue and some laughs, which is why we decided to make it a bonus episode. I hope you all enjoy it. So go ahead and pull up your metaphorical seat, tap in, and enjoy this bonus episode of Melinated Mommy Talks, the podcast show.

Jasmine Winters 2:57

Yes, it's so important.

Jaye Wilson 2:58

Yeah. Because you know everyone thinks I'm a he-man woman hater or he -woman man hater.

Jasmine Winters 3:03

We're not.

Jaye Wilson 3:03

I am not at all. I know I'm not.

Jasmine Winters 3:06

We gonna tell them that we not.

Jaye Wilson 3:08

He -woman hand, man hater. Yeah. Or she -woman. She -woman man hater.

William Nazareth (Producer) 3:14

She -woman?

Jaye Wilson 3:15

Yeah. People think I'm a she -woman man hater because I'm a single mom. I'm like, no, I don't want to be a single mom. It just happened to be this way.

Jasmine Winters 3:23

Seriously.

Jaye Wilson 3:24

I believe in partnership.

Jasmine Winters 3:25

Yup.

Jaye Wilson 3:25

But equitable partnership.

Dating, Equity, And Parenting Standards

Jasmine Winters 3:27

Oof.

Jaye Wilson 3:28

Listen, okay, can we switch a little bit? Because when I tell you, when I think about partnership, and I'm out here in these dating streets, girl, it's rough.

Jasmine Winters 3:39

Nothing out there. I'm just gonna keep mine.

Jaye Wilson 3:41

Please.

Jasmine Winters 3:41

That's my man. I'm gonna keep 'em.

Jaye Wilson 3:43

That's it. You and you're working.

Jasmine Winters 3:45

I'm working.

Jaye Wilson 3:45

You're working on it.

Jasmine Winters 3:46

It ain't nothing out there.

Jaye Wilson 3:47

It's... it ain't. I, I, I tend to be optimistic. So I'm outside, right? And being outside, I'm challenging myself to really listen to the things that these men say and they don't say. But the big thing that I always point out is one, I want a man who is reflective in a lot of the life experiences that I had. Not saying we got a trauma bond, but understand that we have different evolutions of who we are. I've been married before, I've had my children. If that has been an experience that you had, that also is a great conversation piece for us. How was marriage for you? Was it something that you want to explore again? What did you learn about yourself in that relationship that you don't want to take to your next? I feel like those are really important questions.

Jasmine Winters 4:37

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 4:38

I also don't want to date somebody that hasn't had a fatherhood experience. To me, I want you to be an active dad, not just a man who got some kids. Because them is two different people.

Jasmine Winters 4:49

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 4:50

Serious.

Jasmine Winters 4:50

Dem is.

Jaye Wilson 4:51

It is. And when I, and when I talk to men about that, they're like, why is it important? You should just want a man just to have a man. I'm like, no, no. I'm real content by myself. But I want someone who understands the equity that you need to put into a relationship, into a partnership. Because yes, I want the love and the respect and all the things that come with having a nice man, but I also want him to understand, you're not my whole world. My children are here. And my mothering, that will never go away. It will change and evolve over time as my children get older. But I want someone to also know how valuable those relationships are.

Jasmine Winters 5:30

Absolutely.

Jaye Wilson 5:31

You know what I mean? So what I'm saying, talking about healthy relationships and preparing yourself and even also navigating through traumatic things that also impact the way that we look at each other in partnership. How do we, how do we walk into that space open, vulnerable, but ready?

Jasmine Winters 5:53

From the man's perspective or the woman's perspective?

Jaye Wilson 5:55

I'mma ask you from the woman's perspective, because you are not here in the, in the identity of a man.

Jasmine Winters 6:00

Yeah.

Unlearning And Relearning Healthy Love

Jaye Wilson 6:01

So from your perspective.

Jasmine Winters 6:02

Yeah. My perspective of walking into a healthy relationship is having a positive mindset to be okay with unlearning what you thought was a healthy relationship.

Jaye Wilson 6:23

I like that.

Jasmine Winters 6:24

You know.

Jaye Wilson 6:24

Okay.

Jasmine Winters 6:25

We have to be open to relearning, educating ourselves, and being okay, for instance, if you come from a home that may have been a little chaotic growing up. Sometimes we find ourselves as adults, when things are calm...

Jaye Wilson 6:45

Looking for the chaos?

Jasmine Winters 6:46

...we need to create chaos.

Jaye Wilson 6:48

Yeah. Because you haven't been shown what healthy looks like. Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 6:51

What a healthy, not even just relationship, what a healthy environment looks like.

Jaye Wilson 6:56

Yes, you want a reality TV moment.

Jasmine Winters 6:58

Yes. And so I always say when we have spaces like this and opportunities to come together and talk or have a panel conversation or a webinar or whatever it is that we're doing for the community in our advocacy spaces, I always tell people, tell a friend to tell a friend to tell a friend.

Jaye Wilson 7:16

Yes.

Jasmine Winters 7:17

Get those people into the room. You, the like-minded people are already going to sign up because they want more. But what about the folks that we haven't reached or may not have the means to an end to get to that resource? Who may not have the computer, who may not have a babysitter, who may not have transportation? How do we reach those folks to get them into the room? Do we start create ...yes? Do we start creating events where we have a designated daycare room?

Jaye Wilson 7:44

Yes.

Jasmine Winters 7:44

You know? Do we start offering maybe discounts on Uber rides? You know, how do we reach the folks that we actually need in the room to hear this information? Or how do we equip those who are like-minded coming into the room and teaching them how to advocate so they can take this information back to their smaller communities and say, hey, this is what I've learned.

Jaye Wilson 8:09

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 8:09

All you need is two or more listening ears.

Reaching Community Beyond The Usual Crowd

Jaye Wilson 8:12

That's it. That's it. One-on-one is a conversation.

Jasmine Winters 8:15

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 8:16

Two or more is an audience.

Jasmine Winters 8:17

And so being okay with unlearning what you thought was new. Being okay with unlearning what you thought was the right way of what a healthy relationship looks like is the first step to actually walking into a healthy relationship.

Jaye Wilson 8:35

I love that. I love that. You know what came up for me when you were saying that is reframing and new definitions, right? So we started this episode talking about how do we define mortality versus morbidity. I think we're doing the same thing when it comes to creating healthy relationships and family dynamics, right? So to your point, if you grew up in a household where there was disjointedness with parents or with children or discipline or insert problem here. If that's how you grew up, those will be the, those core values and memories that you hold on to. So when you get into a relationship or you when you get into parenthood and those aren't the experiences, you have to one recognize, oh my God, this looks different than how I grew up. A, is this good? Do I want it to continue to be this way? Or B, is this actually triggering something in me that makes me feel bad or ashamed or fearful around my parenting or my relationship? And then the second thing is redefining it. So if I'm, I'll use myself for, I'll use myself as an example. If I'm looking at my parenting and I'm looking at the way that I grew up, like I, I grew up, uh I was raised by my grandmother, and my relationship with both of my parents, it's not a good one. But I didn't use that as a deterrent to say, well, I'm just gonna be like my parents because those are the people that birthed me. I'm looking at the parenting that my grandmother gave me. And I'm looking at the way of the lessons that she taught me as an intergenerational connection to who I am and the values that I, I really hold near and dear to me and how I want my girls to also grow and blossom into the adults that they're going to be. So I'm not discounting my parents. I learned from them.

Jasmine Winters 10:27

Yeah.

Redefining Family Patterns And Values

Jaye Wilson 10:27

I just learned a different lesson that they may not have known that they were teaching me. And I also got to value the parts of them that were good, that really did give me the other parts of that uh that my what do you call it, the zhuzh of my personality. I think my parents taught me resilience. I think my parents taught me how to be more self-aware. I think my parents taught me that I am way more innovative than I give myself credit for. I think my parents also taught me patience. And you need all those things when you're parenting children.

Jasmine Winters 10:58

Yes, you do.

Jaye Wilson 10:58

Right. So shout out to them for being who they were and giving me those nuggets that they didn't even know that they were teaching.

Jasmine Winters 11:05

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 11:06

Again, when we go into that thought of healthy relationship, um, the way that we're watching our kids grow and what they're actually seeing and not seeing. Because we always think about, oh, well, if I'm just arguing in the other room, they don't see that, they're not hearing that, they're not feeling that, they are.

Jasmine Winters 11:22

That's not true.

Jaye Wilson 11:22

Because that's all a part of how they are pulling their, their own personalities together so that once they're going out into the world and they decide parenthood or not, this is who they're gonna be.

Jasmine Winters 11:34

Yes.

Jaye Wilson 11:34

So I think what we're doing now is again changing the narrative. We're giving new definition to words that we may not have had the language for when we were growing up. You know, we weren't talking about mental health in 1980 something.

Jasmine Winters 11:48

No.

Jaye Wilson 11:48

Or 1990 something.

Jasmine Winters 11:50

It was a pity party.

Jaye Wilson 11:51

It was. It was, oh, well, pray it away, ignore it, be strong. You know, I, I tell anybody, um, I don't need any more strength. I am abnormally strong.

Jasmine Winters 12:02

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 12:02

There is nothing else that you can, I won't say nothing else because the Lord Jesus don't throw nothing else at me, but there is there is not a space that I'm creating for more strength. I'm actually creating more space for softness. I'm creating more space for rest. And it's not something that I have to earn, it is something that I deserve.

Jasmine Winters 12:22

And that's key.

Jaye Wilson 12:23

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 12:24

You know, this is all intersects. The healthy relationship dynamic. If you are going into your relationship with a health, healthy, renewed mindset, when that labor and delivery, morbidity or mortality experience arises, you already are ahead of the game and you are equipped to say that that don't look right. Something's wrong.

Jaye Wilson 12:54

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 12:54

You are already prepared mentally to advocate because there is a confidence that comes with the word healthy.

Jaye Wilson 13:04

Right. Yes. Ooh, talk about it.

Jasmine Winters 13:06

Yeah, girl. We here, we're doing it.

Jaye Wilson 13:08

We is doing it. We is doing it. I, I think about that with um, like, you know, some of our concept with Melinated Moms is uh the dimensions of health and wellness. There are eight, right? So when we think about if I physically feel fine, then I'm fine. That's not it.

Jasmine Winters 13:26

That's not it.

Choosing Softness, Rest, And Readiness

Jaye Wilson 13:27

It's not just how I physically feel. If I'm not mentally well, I'm not fine. If I feel isolated, I am not socially fine. If I feel like my environment is dangerous or chaotic or brings out nothing but anxiety and depression, I am not environmentally well.

Jasmine Winters 13:45

Right.

Jaye Wilson 13:45

Right? If I don't have a sense of groundedness, whether that's through church or through a religious sect, I am not spiritually well, right? There's so many things that really impact the way that we make decisions, the way that we care for others, the way that we also show the ability to take care of others. I had a conversation with my my daughter one day, and we were talking about um work. Mommy, you work so much. Oh my God, you're always at work. You're working, working, working, working. And 90% of the time I'm, I'm working from home.

Jasmine Winters 14:17

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 14:17

But like they don't, they don't get it because I'm physically there. So they're like, I'll be like setting up for a Zoom or I'm doing something and they'll just come up. Mommy, so let me tell you how I did this. Mommy's working right now, you know, and I had to have a sit-down with them because I'm like, all right, how do I address this without completely shutting them down? Because I don't want that to be the message that they're hearing, right? So we sat down and I was like, okay, listen, there are things that we all need. We need time for ourselves, we need time for our friends, but we also need time to create the access to the things that we love. And the way that mommy does that is through her work. Yeah. So it may feel to you as an imbalance of like my occupational wellness, but for me, my productivity and the way that our business grows helps us to one afford the life that we live, because these kids is expensive. They eat every 45 minutes.

Jasmine Winters 15:18

They do. Yours is 45, mine 30.

Jaye Wilson 15:20

Child.

The Eight Dimensions Of Wellness

Jasmine Winters 15:20

I need your babies.

Jaye Wilson 15:22

Because I tell you, they be eating, chile. I be like, girl, again, use your in-school stomach.

Jasmine Winters 15:28

Yes.

Jaye Wilson 15:29

In school stomach. Child, because they be, but I also want them to understand the value of a dollar.

Jasmine Winters 15:40

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 15:40

Right. So I'm like, if mommy is putting in these hours, this is also creating more space and availability for us to do all those other fun things that you like to do. So this is how I have to create balance. If you need me, if there are times that you're like, mommy, I need you in this moment, here's how you communicate it to me. And I want to be receptive to that so that I'm able to show up for you in that way. My oldest daughter, she has a job now. Like she's like a working individual. And for her to work and now see the dynamics of what I'm talking about, when she, you know, she gets a little paycheck and she's like, Oh yeah, I'm about to go buy me some clothes from Shein. Great. How are you getting to work?

Jasmine Winters 16:23

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 16:24

How are you making sure that you're eating every day?

Jasmine Winters 16:26

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 16:26

Do you have lunch money? Oh, well, she told me this. Well, mommy, you know I can't afford the lifestyle I live. You're just supposed to supplement this.

Jasmine Winters 16:35

Oh my goodness. That's, that's...

Jaye Wilson 16:37

It's a real quote. That's a real quote. Shout out to my kid. But again, like I think it's funny in the moment, right? But it's also showing her like this is how you actually become more self-aware of the things that you are building for yourself because there is gonna be a time where you're not gonna have me to depend on. I'm not gonna be supplementing your income.

Jasmine Winters 16:58

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 16:59

You're gonna supplement your own self, you know. But we have to show that first, right? So we're leading by example as parents. What I've also learned in that is I can't just devote myself in that one space because I do have to create a balance or actually not a balance, harmony. There are things I can never put down. I can never put down being a mom. I can never put down being a woman. I can never put down working. I have to do all of those things simultaneously. But I have to also see where the harmony in all of those things are.

Jasmine Winters 17:29

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 17:29

So my motherhood time is gonna coincide with my working time, but I cannot give more energy in one or the other because my kids are gonna, there are gonna be things that they just need me for. And they're also growing up.

Jasmine Winters 17:44

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 17:44

I got five years until I have an empty nest. I can't wait. Ooh, I'm gonna be outside outside.

Jasmine Winters 17:49

Growing that business.

Jaye Wilson 17:50

That's it. That's it. And growing up as a grown-up. But, but I do want to have the time to cherish memories that I'll never be able to get back.

Jasmine Winters 18:00

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 18:01

So once they do become these beautiful, amazing, autonomous adults, they ain't gonna have time for me. And I, and I had 18 plus years to grow and evolve with them. So I want to create that harmony space where we have memories of not just mommy with her head down at her computer, but sitting up watching movies and creating beautiful conversation, and having conversation about healthy relationships.

Jasmine Winters 18:28

Yes.

Work, Motherhood, And Finding Harmony

Jaye Wilson 18:28

And being able to reflect on how much my motherhood meant to them and how much them growing up meant to me.

Jasmine Winters 18:36

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 18:37

You know? And I, I, I'm grateful that these are, I want to make sure I don't cry. I'm grateful that these are moments that we actually do get to share with our kids.

Jasmine Winters 18:50

Yes.

Jaye Wilson 18:50

Because there are moms who never get to have these experiences. And that's when we go into that space of how we differentiate mortality from morbidity. I am so sad that we had to go through these traumatic experiences, but I am grateful that we were able to get through them, find the healing and the resources that we needed so that we didn't stay there and now use that as a catalyst so that we can teach our children and still be able to love on those babies and them love on us.

Jasmine Winters 19:21

Yeah. Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 19:22

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 19:23

Yeah, that's, that's real, Jaye. Um, I try, and that's part of the reason why the healing playbook was created as well.

Jaye Wilson 19:31

Yes.

Jasmine Winters 19:31

Um, because you also don't want to neglect your relationship.

Jaye Wilson 19:35

That's right.

Jasmine Winters 19:36

And so with him being a part of the nonprofit um and helping to heal the men in the community based off of his experience, we're now working together in this space. We're spending time together, we're brainstorming together from our experience.

Jaye Wilson 19:55

Yes.

Jasmine Winters 19:56

From morbidity. And speaking to the children as well, you have, you have your babies at every event, at least the ones I've been to.

Jaye Wilson 20:05

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 20:06

And, you know, seeing their mom, whether they recognize it or not, going through your healing journey, they're on that journey with you. And they may not fully recognize or understand that right now, but they are your partners in your healing journey. And I think that is just a beautiful thing because once I was able to take the postpartum depression blinders off of me and tap into what was around me, I started taking my kids on this, on this journey with me as well.

Jaye Wilson 20:42

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 20:43

You know, they're, they're helping set up at the events. They're helping me when I'm creating and designing. And nine times out of ten, they're sitting on the other side of the couch when I'm on a Zoom call.

Jaye Wilson 20:54

Right.

Jasmine Winters 20:54

You know, and kids are listening. Even if their head is in that phone and they're scrolling and they look like they're not listening or paying attention, they are getting the seeds that are being dropped. And they may not fully understand those seeds, but once they grow, they, as in the children, and those seeds grow that were planted in them, we're creating power.

Jaye Wilson 21:18

Amen.

Jasmine Winters 21:19

We're, we are creating such power in this new generation. If we are, you know, pouring into our children the way that we may have needed to be poured into. And just imagine the work that they're gonna do.

Jaye Wilson 21:34

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 21:35

When it's their time.

Jaye Wilson 21:36

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 21:37

You know? Because there's gonna be a lot of work to do after after this four-year time frame. And they're gonna be the ones coming up leading the way.

Gratitude After Trauma And Healing Together

Jaye Wilson 21:44

It's true. It's true. I see it so much in my kids. It's funny because I, I feel like I'm watching them become, you know, become this better version of me. And I'm like, these kids have such a level of awareness that I was not able to have, I wasn't allowed to have growing up in the 1990s somethings.

Jasmine Winters 22:09

It's the 90s today.

Jaye Wilson 22:10

It's the 90s. That's when I grew up. I was born in the 1980s.

Jasmine Winters 22:14

Oh, okay. I was gonna say, I thought you was an 80s something.

Jaye Wilson 22:16

I'm an 80s baby. I was born in the 1980s somethings.

Jasmine Winters 22:19

Okay.

Jaye Wilson 22:19

But I grew up in the 90s somethings.

Jasmine Winters 22:22

I'll allow it.

Jaye Wilson 22:23

That's okay. Thank you. Today. But excuse me. Again, it's like it's seeing what does evolution really look like? Right? What does it look like for you to be able to embrace things that weren't encouraged when you were in that same inquisitive space? If I had this level of awareness now, back then, baby.

Jasmine Winters 22:54

What? I would have been an entreprenuer at 12.

Jaye Wilson 22:57

That part.

Jasmine Winters 22:58

Okay.

Jaye Wilson 22:58

And I'm seeing that. No, no, no, what do they call it? No cap. My daughter. Because I don't know. I was born in the 1980s something. My oldest daughter, she works for a childcare center. And she's like, you know, that's the path I want to go into. I want to be a, I want to be an educator. I particularly want to work with early childhood. Like that's her, that's her zhuzh, that's her jam. So she's created this whole space of like, all right, I'm gonna create a Google form so I can offer my services, I can offer tutoring, I can offer this, I can offer that. And she got a whole clientele list outside of her job. So I said, Nadia, you're an entrepreneur. No, I'm not. Yeah. Yeah, you are.

Jasmine Winters 23:42

Wow.

Jaye Wilson 23:43

And in her head, she's like, I'm just doing what I see. But yeah, you're doing what you see because you had that space.

Jasmine Winters 23:50

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 23:51

You know, I'm like, I want you to create something. It is. And it's so dope to watch her do that and not even realize this is normalized behavior. These, so you know, like...

Jasmine Winters 24:01

That proud Melinated Mom moment. Flips hair.

The Healing Playbook And Family Involvement

Jaye Wilson 24:06

Flips hair. Fluffs it up. Um But it, it again, it shows me how much you can actually learn and teach your children by pouring into them what they can do instead of what they can't.

Jasmine Winters 24:22

Absolutely.

Jaye Wilson 24:23

I grew up with so much I can'ts. And I had to learn to navigate out of what I can't do to see actually what I can.

Jasmine Winters 24:31

You had to unlearn.

Jaye Wilson 24:32

I had to unlearn. So these things that my children are doing, they're teaching me how to unlearn. They're teaching me that, mommy, there is no other limitation besides the ones that you put on yourself. And they tell me, mommy, you said that to me. I'm like, I did. Damn.

Jasmine Winters 24:47

Mm-hmm.

Jaye Wilson 24:48

That's profound. I said that shit. Okay, cool.

Jasmine Winters 24:53

Uh-huh.

Jaye Wilson 24:54

And again, like you were saying, whether or not you think that they're paying attention, they are.

Jasmine Winters 24:57

They're listening.

Jaye Wilson 24:57

And they'll always tell you.

Jasmine Winters 24:59

And they are watching.

Jaye Wilson 24:59

And they are watching. And they are doing.

Jasmine Winters 25:02

Yes.

Jaye Wilson 25:02

They are doing.

Jasmine Winters 25:04

It's so funny. We had to buy Cairo. We had to buy him his own little play school laptop.

Jaye Wilson 25:10

Okay.

Jasmine Winters 25:11

Because that is all he sees me doing. And he wants, he's so curious about this thing that mommy is in front of. What did, what, I just want to type too? I want to move that mouse too. And to get him to not do it, he, he's my coworker. I set him up with his computer and his mouse that came with it. And he does his numbers and colors. And I, I type. And his attention span ain't the best.

Jaye Wilson 25:33

That's okay.

Jasmine Winters 25:34

Okay. I might get 10 minutes, but at least I got 10 minutes of emails done. That's all I needed. Take a break, focus, reset. Hey, son, come computer time.

Jaye Wilson 25:44

Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup.

Jasmine Winters 25:46

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 25:47

But that's his bonding with you. Yeah. And he's looking at you. You are his example.

Jasmine Winters 25:51

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 25:52

He's like, look at how super dope my mom is. She gets to press buttons on this thing. You know? And for us, we're just like, okay, just be quiet. Great.

Jasmine Winters 26:02

Yeah and talk to people. If you're on ZOOM? Hi.

Jaye Wilson 26:04

Right. All the time.

Jasmine Winters 26:06

All the time, girl. You've seen him.

Jaye Wilson 26:08

Yes. That's my baby. He's my internet nephew. I love it. I love it. But those, these are the beautiful parts of you. And I'm, I'm so glad that like you're sharing this with us. And I want to thank you because it is very hard. I know, again, like just reflecting on myself, like, there are so many days that I can think back to those moments where I'm like, I might not have been their mom. And it does take time. So I don't want you to rush yourself. I don't want you to feel like, all right, it's been two years now. Let me just suck it up. Take the time you need. I'm 156 months postpartum. Okay. I'm still thinking about those moments. There's still days where I'll just walk up to my kids and just hug them and tell them I love them.

Jasmine Winters 26:55

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 26:56

Because I know that I can. Because there might have been a time where I may have not been able to do that. And I'd been just a memory for my babies.

Jasmine Winters 27:03

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 27:04

So take that time.

Kids As Partners In The Journey

Jasmine Winters 27:05

Yeah. And I appreciate that because it has been a journey. And sometimes I feel like, why are you crying again?

Jaye Wilson 27:12

Because you need to.

Jasmine Winters 27:13

Sis. And I started journaling maybe three or four months ago.

Jaye Wilson 27:17

Okay.

Jasmine Winters 27:17

Not um like deep journaling, but emotional journaling.

Jaye Wilson 27:22

Okay.

Jasmine Winters 27:22

You know, I'll write down the time and the emotion that I'm feeling. Because for me, I need to see if there's a trend or if there's something attached to it that's causing the trigger during this postpartum healing. What is heightening the emotion? You know, because I already have my anxiety diagnosis from being from back when I was a teenager that I have wonderfully managed.

Jaye Wilson 27:48

Okay.

Jasmine Winters 27:48

But it's heightened. And being able to identify what your depression looks like, what your anxiety looks like, being able to just look back and see, okay, on this date and on this time, this is what I was doing, and this was going on, and this was going on. You can, you can kind of manage your emotions, for me...

Jaye Wilson 28:13

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 28:13

...a little bit better.

Jaye Wilson 28:14

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 28:15

Because my depression is not a dark room, sadness, tears, and overeating. My depression is weight loss, not remembering to eat, heightened anxiety and heightened anger.

Jaye Wilson 28:28

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 28:28

Like a crazy person. Like crazy.

Jaye Wilson 28:34

That's okay.

Jasmine Winters 28:35

And I didn't know until I started researching for myself what depression can look like. There's so many different forms.

Jaye Wilson 28:44

There is.

Jasmine Winters 28:44

And it is not just sadness and in bed all day. You know that you can function in depression.

Jaye Wilson 28:49

Oh, yeah.

Jasmine Winters 28:50

You can be a high functioning depressed person, high functioning alcoholic, high functioning anxiety person. And these are the things we're walking around with, with trauma and not being able to identify because we're not ready to unlearn what society has told us, what our previous generations have taught us.

Jaye Wilson 29:12

No, I get it. I get it. I, I and I'm glad that you said that. My depression looks like. So that helps people to again be able to reframe their thoughts, but also identify what does it show up for you? What does it look like in your body?

Jasmine Winters 29:30

Yeah.

Jaye Wilson 29:30

Right. We have these classic signs of what it can be or how we can define it. Yes. But what is the, what was it? What is the symptom?

Jasmine Winters 29:40

Yes.

Jaye Wilson 29:41

Not just the root.

Jasmine Winters 29:42

Yes.

Jaye Wilson 29:43

Right. So there my depression looks like overproductivity.

Jasmine Winters 29:49

That's a real thing.

Jaye Wilson 29:50

Overproductivity. I'm a productive ass person. I really am. I, I'll write a list of 17 things and usually by the end of the day, I got 17 things done.

Jasmine Winters 29:59

Yeah.

Raising A New Generation Of Advocates

Jaye Wilson 29:59

Right. But if I'm in my space of I'm depressed and I'm worried and I'm, uh I'm sad that I'm having to deal with so many things on my own, I kick into this like crisis mode. And I'm like, okay, I can't go to sleep until I have five different ways of me doing this thing. And I will make workflows and I will do these things and I will create a program and I'll, all of these things. And while it all feels good to kind of get all that stuff out, and at the end of it, I do feel good for the most part to like get some of those things out. I recognize when my therapist, because shout out to my therapist, because I be keeping her employed. I'd be telling her all the time. I'm like, girl, I'm gonna be crazy for a long ass time. But she helps me to understand, like, so here was that trigger that helped you to start this really creative space for you, but it also is rooted in the way that your depression is uh sitting in your body. Maybe you've had this feeling from when you were younger, maybe you had this feeling through your marriage, maybe it's a combination of both. Now I'm able to look at these things, pay attention to the patterns, and say, okay. Now I can take a breath and I can create a different route instead of me overproducing something to make me like feel like I need to earn the rest that comes from the depression that I'm in.

Jasmine Winters 31:29

And it's so interesting because your depression in that sense looks like overproductivity. And same here, I'm, I'm very high productivity individual. But for me, when I'm experiencing those low moments, um, whether it be anxiety or I'm feeling a little sad, I tend to like I get the work done, but it's not at its best. Right. Not that the work itself is not at its best. For instance, Jaye, you my friend?

Jaye Wilson 32:05

I'm your friend.

Jasmine Winters 32:06

It might take me a week to respond to your text. Okay.

Jaye Wilson 32:11

That's okay.

Jasmine Winters 32:12

It is not intentional. I understand. But if I've got, if I look at my phone and I've got 97 messages that came through from group chats and work text and all kinds of, it shuts me down.

Jaye Wilson 32:26

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 32:26

And then I'm like, I don't want to do any of them. So then I just end up putting on something else.

Jaye Wilson 32:34

That's what happens.

Jasmine Winters 32:35

And then I just don't reply until I feel like I'm in a more productive space.

Jaye Wilson 32:39

Yeah.

Jasmine Winters 32:39

And then all of a sudden it's like, Jaye, oh my God.

Jaye Wilson 32:42

And what I tell you? Girl, that's fine.

Jasmine Winters 32:44

You do.

Jaye Wilson 32:45

I'll be like girl, hashtag mom life. I totally get it.

Jasmine Winters 32:48

You do.

Jaye Wilson 32:48

1000%. I get it. I get it.

Jasmine Winters 32:50

Yep. Yep. Yep.

Awareness Across Generations And Growth

Jaye Wilson 33:05

We hope you also get it. And we also hope that you get to give yourself some grace out there. You have to do what you can when you can and allow yourself to process your feelings the way you know how. That is it for this bonus episode. We hope you enjoyed it. As Jasmine said, tell a friend to tell a friend to tell a friend about becoming a paid subscriber so that we can continue to support and grow this podcast. Thank you so much for being a paid subscriber, and thank you so much for tuning in. Melinated Mommy Talks the Podcast is your place for authentic and raw conversations about what it means to be a melinated mom. If you're interested in becoming an individual or corporate sponsor of this podcast, go to melinated moms. com/ podcast for more information. We can't wait to have you with us in our next episode. So keep listening, stay connected, and stay tapped in the world.