The Future is Peace with Aziz Abu Sarah and Maoz Inon (Part 2 of 2)

In Part 2 of this profound episode of Provoking Peace, we continue our conversation with Palestinian peacemaker Aziz Abu Sarah and Israeli peacemaker Maoz Inon. They dive into the difficult, emotional process of writing their upcoming book, an eight-day shared journey that explores the physical geography of the region alongside the emotional geography of their own grief, healing, and partnership.

Aziz and Maoz discuss the messy, imperfect reality of being a peacemaker. They reject the idea that one must be a perfect, saint-like figure to do this work, arguing instead that peacemaking is an active, daily choice to build a world rooted in justice, equality, and dignity. They navigate the complexities of dialogue across the divide, emphasizing that true peacebuilding requires listening without silencing each other's narratives, even when discussing highly charged terms.

The conversation highlights the immense power of public symbolism and dreaming. They share the breathtaking story of their embrace in front of Pope Francis and 13,000 peacebuilders in Verona, Italy, illustrating how a single moment of unity can transform skepticism into hope. Ultimately, Aziz and Maoz offer a powerful reminder: we cannot fix broken realities with logic and arguments alone; we must also rely on poetry, art, and the courage to dream of a shared future.

Key Takeaways:

• Dialogue requires the mutual respect of allowing each person to speak from their own narrative without silencing the other.
• Writing their collaborative book was a deeply emotional process that required transforming unimaginable personal loss into a roadmap for reconciliation.
• Peacemakers are not flawless saints; they are imperfect people who actively choose to do the hard work of creating a better world.
• Public symbols of unity, like an Israeli and a Palestinian embracing before Pope Francis, have the power to shift global skepticism into faith and hope.
• A roadmap to peace begins with the courage to dream, followed by the commitment to amplify that dream loudly and publicly.
• When logic and political arguments fail, art and poetry hold the profound ability to address broken realities and bridge divides.
• Ignoring injustice and conflict is not a viable option; peacebuilding is a necessary, urgent choice for the survival and safety of all humanity.

About the Guests 

Aziz Abu Sarah is a Palestinian peacemaker, author, and tourism entrepreneur. 

Following the tragic loss of his brother Taysir to the conflict, Aziz dedicated his life to reconciliation and building bridges across divides. He is the co-author of The Future Is Peace and travels the world to amplify the dream of a shared future, demonstrating that peace is not only possible but essential.

Maoz Inon is an Israeli peacemaker, author, and tourism entrepreneur. 

After the heartbreaking loss of his parents to the ongoing conflict, Maoz chose the path of peace and partnership over revenge. Alongside his "brother" Aziz, he advocates globally for justice, equality, and a peaceful resolution, proving that shared grief can be transformed into a powerful catalyst for collective healing.

Notable Quotes: 

“I think what makes peacemakers unique is that we are not perfect people. We are very much an imperfect people who trying to create a better world.”

“The only way I will be able to justify their death, if there will be a sacrifice for peace and not for war. Only peace will justify their death.”

Resources Mentioned:

• The People's Peace Summit
• The Future Is Peace

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to Provoking Peace, a podcast by the Sisterhood of Salam Shalom, where we bring Muslim and Jewish women and our allies into conversation to explore what it really takes to build peace in ourselves, our communities, and our world.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

We go beyond the headlines to speak with people who are living this work every day. Activists, educators, artists, fake leaders, and more.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

We're here to ask bold questions, listen deeply, and invite you to join us in disrupting assumptions and stereotypes. One Muslim and one Jewish woman at a time.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

And we might, this is one of the areas we might not fully agree on. I think what does matter to most Palestinian peace actors, because pretty much every Palestinian peacemaker I know, except for a handful who I don't know if they count as peacemakers, would call it a genocide, just like human rights organizations and so on. I think the red line for many of us isn't is the Israeli gonna call it a genocide publicly or not. I think people have to come to that on their own. I don't think there's enough debate and argument gonna get somebody to call it that or not. I think the problem is when people say you cannot use it, then it becomes an issue. And as long as we have the agreement, the respect that we're not silencing each other, Maos can talk about what happened to his parents, can talk about what happened to the Jewish people, can talk as freely as he wants from his narrative. I can talk about what happened to my family, what's happening in Gaza from my narrative. And we might not always, or we definitely don't agree on everything, but as long as we're not silencing each other and willing to listen and sometimes, yes, have a dialogue about it and ask questions, I think we in the right direction. The problem happens in in my opinion, is when I come to you and I say, hey, you should not use this word and that word and this word at all. And I think the moment you say you cannot use it and you should not use it, then it becomes it becomes more of an issue.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Thank you. And and and that is something we're facing here in our society too. So so a lot, uh, a lot of that is uh we don't we cannot work through it if we are silencing each other, right? So and that's what the sisterhood is working on. Uh thank you both for that. Ellie.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

I was wondering if there were if there were any parts of of the book that were really difficult for you for you both to talk about as you as you were writing, were were there kind of did it bring up difficult conversations between you two, you know, at any point.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

I will also uh Tachia, I will also address what you just said, that you also nailed what the book is about. Okay? It's not about the Israeli uh Palestinian conflict and and the people. It's a a toolkit, a roadmap to bridge over the divide. And if we can, everyone can. That's what we again we are proving in the book. So we we wrote it for the uh greater humanity and audience, and it's just not those who are considering themselves Prodhis or Proda, Jewish or Palestinian poa that should uh uh read the book. We do believe the book is for everyone.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

And you absolutely you absolutely achieved that. You really brought so much in that book that everybody can find something that will either inspire them or inform them. And and I really, I really think that you achieved what you just described, Maos.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Now, do you remember that question, Maos? Yeah, I cried so much, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:08

No, I cried so much writing the book and reading the book, so at least those tears weren't uh wasted. For what again, we worked very hard on the book. I think it was mostly uh uplifting and inspiring uh uh exercise or walk. I learned so much like about Aziz, about a Palestinian, and about humanity, and about myself. And I think that we actually the book is eight days, uh share journey that Aziz and I are uh inviting you to join us. And uh and each day is a chapter, and each chapter is taking place in a different geographical location, and we actually in September 2024 we we have done it. Uh so it's really uh it's it was such an amazing uh spiritual and inspiring eight days on the ground. We learned so much from each other, from the landscape we traveled within, and from the people we met. And just to digest that, that was very difficult because we we were witnessing, we witnessed horrible stories, not just our personal stories, but one catastrophe after the other catastrophe after the other catastrophe. And then how can you can you transform those this pain, this suffering, this loss into healing, into partnership, into reconciliation? So we were really working with emotions, not just of ourselves, but with everyone we encountered with. So that was really difficult. But that's what we we put so much thought, energy, and we also got advice. We spoke to some really inspiring people to ask for their advice, and I think that's what it's this is a it's a collective walk. It's just that Aziz and Moles. It's a collective walk.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

There were a few moments I think you get to an area, especially for the vulnerable moments, that were difficult to put on paper, where you write it and you kind of brush over it quickly, and then you have to go back and say, okay, how did I really feel at that moment? And those are always difficult because they bring out uh memories and bring out feelings. But I just started practicing for the audiobook, and it is I was uh I was telling uh friends, I was telling Marie earlier. I'm like, this is hard to read because for me it's hard to read because there are a lot of moments that are hard in it. There's a lot of emotions, and as you read, you want to convey the emotions, and so you kind of go through it again, and you have to cry two, three times in each chapter. And I'm like, oh, this is gonna be a tough, and and to do a good reading, you have to practice. And so, like, I have to like read the whole book a few times as I'm practicing to get this a good audiobook. I'm like, it is honestly harder than writing the book from an emotional point of view. It's very exhausting. Practicing for the audiobook is very exhausting.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Absolutely. I uh I just want to say that there were a couple of moments, so I was reading your book and I had to put it down and kind of take a few deep breaths to because there was such a pressure in my chest from all the emotion you brought. And you know, it's incredible how much love the readers develop, mamos for your parents, and Aziz for Taisir. I I cannot tell you that it's a it's pure love you start feeling, and you manage that it's not easy because when you lose someone, there's not enough you can write and say about them because they were you want to say so many things. So I'm sure it was a process of discernment, what you want to put there and and how to put it there, and you really manage to just do justice to who they were as people and and keep their memory alive.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Maybe I'll I'll read now the dedication.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

To our beloved Aysir Bilan Ya Kobi, your lives and your loss have forged our has forged our brotherhood and commitment to a shared future. This book is a testament to the peace you have inspired.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Beautiful. I called Tahia, or I think texted her, um, after like three or four pages. I read the dedication and I immediately felt, you know, my heart. And then I read the first few pages and I I texted Tahia. I said, you know, I I have enough questions for, you know, like a seven, eight-hour podcast, and I'm already crying. So this is gonna be a very uh interesting, interesting interview. The way that you made them so real, so that everyone who reads the book doesn't just think about their the tragedies, it thinks about their lives, their the beautiful human people that they were. It was so beautiful and so meaningful. Um, and I I hope that I hope that it gives you some sense of of I don't know, comfort or peace to know that all of these people are gonna remember them and and love them and care about them. It was really remarkable. You did a really beautiful job.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Thank you. I would say that the only way, and I was saying it only just after October 7th, that the only way I will be able to justify uh their death if there will be a sacrifice for peace and not for war. Only peace will justify their death. And and now it's uh on us, and on us it's not just Aziz and Maoz. It's Chir and Ellison and the Sisterhood and everyone. It's on us. Uh and it's time to prove that that peace is the future, and we are proving it in the book, and uh we're also sharing a roadmap, not just how to bridge over the divide, but how to make peace in the near future. So we also use uh our previous experience as tourism entrepreneurs and businessmen. So, yeah, and in the last two and a half years I I went for a spiritual uh uh growth. I'm not the same person I was. I I believe in spiritualism. I think we had some uh in uh meetings with people of faith, like from Pope Leo and Pope Francis and and others that uh I describe myself as this can as is also sometimes described describe him as a man of faith. I there is faith within me. So and and the book uh definitely allowed it to manifest within me.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

That's interesting. I mean, uh you are answering our questions before we ask them. So uh I didn't read them.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

I can just promise you that I didn't read them.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

I love what you're saying, especially uh, you know, we for a long time uh spirituality, faith, and faith were considered as something that is kind of sort of detrimental to relationships, to society, to peace, right? So going back to that core of recognizing that it's actually people who are doing these things, not their spiritual or faith teachings that are doing these things is is important. And it really, the spirituality, just through your poems, through uh artistic expression, you feel that spirit in both of you throughout your book. Uh, one one question that I just wanted to uh sort of go back to is you know, I I love how both of you speak about peace building as a very difficult process, personally and publicly, and also addressing the fact that peacemakers and peace builders are not perfect, right? They're not these amazing saints that, you know, they just brought this peace, but rather went through their own struggle, struggles, went uh addressed their own weaknesses. And I just um that that is something that struck me that we sometimes uh idealize people not realizing that that exactly those weaknesses and vulnerabilities make them relatable and tell us we can do the same, right? So, can you talk about a little bit uh uh about the process of peacebuilding and and what it means to be a peace builder? And that it's not a passive process, it's very much you have to, it's a discipline, as as you said in your book.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

This could take uh another uh four or five hours of uh I know the whole class. So there are different parts of the book we talk about this, and I I can just remember small parts where I talk about my uh former colleague and uh uh boss, I guess Andrea Bartoli, who taught conflict resolution, and his argument to me was exactly what you just said is peacemaking is not is not just a thing um you tell people to do because it's cute and it's uh it's fun and it's it's actually a dedication and it does have a cost to be a peacemaker. It's it's a decision. It's not for nothing that you know it's elevated even within faith that Jesus said, for example, blessed are the peacemakers. It's one of beatitudes because it's not that an easy thing, and you it's it's hard not only because of it's um it's not hard in the sense of us reaching out just to each other, it's hard because of what we just shared. You're gonna discover things about your narrative that may be not accurate or not fully truthful, or there are missing links. It's hard because you examine yourself, it's hard because you learn a lot more about yourself being a peacemaker than in any maybe other job, than you trying to build who you are. It's hard because you have to become vulnerable, it's hard because you want to be um it affects your relationship with those around you. Um, I mean, even for us, we have to always figure out how much are we home versus how much we are not home. It's a simple thing, but this is part of peacemaking, is you have to make a balance. Am I destroying my home while I am doing this peacemaking work? Which is a question Mao Z and I keep always talking about. Okay, we got invited to 30 things, we cannot go to 30 things. You know, this we had to say no to you before. Uh, but it's it's a very hard choice because you cannot you you have to really create that balance. And at times in my life, I failed at creating that balance, which I talk about in the book, and and how much it affects you. Uh so there's all these things, but with all the hardships, I still would say it's one of the most rewarding things you can do in your life. That's one. And two, I just don't see an alternative to being a peacemaker because by ignoring the injustices around us, by ignoring the problems around us, by ignoring the wars and the conflicts and the bombs and all of that, eventually you'll be forced into this, or you will choose to go through the the route of hate and and destruction. And so it's it's not really an option, do I want to be a peacemaker or not? Uh in the more I think about it, it's the decision is made. It's about are you willing to you want to live in a world that's based on values of justice and equality and dignity and and safety, or do you want to live in a world that the stronger can take everything? And that's that's a horrible world to live in because you might think you're the stronger today, the stronger today can be, the weaker tomorrow, and vice versa. There is no if if we don't have any understanding of how the world can work in an equitable way and in a just way, it's it's a very terrifying place to live in. And so being a peacemaker becomes uh a no-brainer with all the challenges and with all the fears and with all the issues, and not being perfect, I think is is very important to talk about. Because if you tell people that you have to be a perfect person to be a peacemaker, nobody is gonna be a peacemaker. No one is perfect. There is this understanding is like you have to be an icon, you have to be like a prophet, you have to be, you know, where you've never done anything wrong in in your life. And I think what makes peacemakers unique is that we are not perfect people, we are very much an imperfect people who try to create a better world. That's all it is, and we have many issues, we are very different personalities, we some of us are warmer, some of us are colder, some of us are funnier, some of us are not, some of us are more vulnerable, some of us are not. It's fine. It's just what makes us who we are is that we understand our weaknesses, and despite them, we are still committed to a more perfect world.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Maros?

SPEAKER_02 18:14

I don't have much to add, but yeah, I will just say that even the ancient prophets were imperfect. So if we can take uh Moses who who uh enslaved the Israel, the uh the Hebrew people from Egypt, he also killed an Egyptian soldier. So he also chose violence, and he was a murderer, a murderer. And if we take my one of my uh most uh beloved prophet Jonah, Prophet Jonah, which we also speak about in the book, he refused. He refused for God uh uh order to go and bring uh the people, the wicked people of Ninveh by back to their right way. So it took God uh few days like to put him in the whale's stomach and then he persuaded him to go. He didn't want to. So even but being a peacemaker is a choice. We can choose to be peacemakers, and this is the biggest challenge of of all to choose to be a peacemaker. After you choose that, find your peers, find other peacemakers, find us, and together we will make peace. Uh so it's again it's a decision that each one of us can make, I would say must make, uh, in order to live in security and safety, because if you live in a bubble right now, it's gonna explode. If we want to actively uh work uh actively to save not just your bubble, but everyone around you and the entire humanity, sooner or later the distraction will reach you.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Um I wanted to ask about um a couple of the experiences that you've had as as peacemakers that um have been really um I would imagine quite joyful and quite exciting. By one of my questions is when you're on stage hugging Pope Francis, did the Swiss guards come after you? Are you allowed to hug him? What was the situation? What did that feel like? Um I I'm so curious about how you were feeling in that moment. So if you could maybe describe the scene and give us a little bit of insight into um something that I would imagine was quite an exciting um moment as a peacemaker.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

So you remember.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Here's the funny thing. We mentioned dreams, and Maoz always talks about dreams. So the night before we're having a dinner, and I don't know where from. I said, you know what my dream is. I don't know if you remember this, Ma'oz. Marie reminded me of this, but I said, my dream is tomorrow we hug Pope Francis. And we in the beginning thought, ah, it's not gonna happen. And then Marie searched it, and uh we we were lucky to have our wives with us there for this moment. And she she's like, it's actually usually it's not a protocol, it's not part of what you should do. However, because Pope Francis is Pope Francis, he sometimes does it. It's like if you get a chance and he leans forward toward you, you lean a little bit, it'll it'll happen. And so the next day when we told our just started telling our stories, everybody in the audience started cheering. And this is really a powerful thing because it wasn't just that Pope Francis recognized what we're doing and who we are and the goal of our mission, but it's the people and that symbolism of us standing together. There were 13,000 people more or less in the audience. Everyone started cheering for us as we told our story. And that's when Pope Francis stood up and he just signaled like this, which is what I saw. Maoz didn't. He was that's why you see me heading way ahead of him. And I was told later that those in the audience, uh our families, thought we were going rogue, and we just have decided to go after the Pope. Fortunately, that's not the case. And uh we got the hug, and it's I cannot tell you how meaningful that that hug is. Neither of us is Catholic, but uh we were very close to becoming my almost were you just like running after, like, oh gosh, I gotta go too.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

It was again, it was also in the arena depache in Verona in front of 13,000 peace builders, and it was also and for me it was out-of-body experience. I was like I was floating somewhere about the arena, and I could see how in 30 seconds that we uh we gave our testimonial to to Pope Francis and the audience in 30 minutes from asking us is peace possible to yes, we can just in 30 seconds how we were able to transform all those skeptical and to have faith within it with the entire audience. And we're also using the words Pope Francis uh uh told us at the uh also in the book in the opening. Uh I if I can read it, I would love to. Please, yes, please in the face of the suffering of these two brothers, the suffering of these two nations, I have no words. They have had the courage to embrace each other. Let us pray for peace and for these two brothers to bring the will to walk for peace to their people. His Holiness Pope Francis. And Pope Francis was the first one to address us as brothers. And since that moment, I officially am saying that I lost my parents, but I want a brother. I want Aziz.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

That's so beautiful. I mean, a Pope Princess says your brothers, you know, who are you argue?

SPEAKER_00 24:28

There's no divorce in Catholicism, so it's forever. Yeah. No, I I think this is we we recently were back to Verona to to carry the Olympic torch together. And people were asking us about the power of symbolism. Like, what does this symbolize? And what we kept telling them is the power of symbolism is not in the people who are doing the act. It's not in Maoz and I. It's rather in how people receive it and how it impacts people. And in whether it was at the Olympics where so many people joined us cheering and chanting with us, uh peace, salaam, shalom, in the streets of Italy. It's incredible, including high-level politicians, the region, uh, the head of the region, the mayor, the bishop of of Verona, all of that. Or when we met with Pope Francis, that, you know, he's met many, many people. He's seen very powerful stories, and yet still the symbolism of an Israeli and a Palestinian who lost family members standing before him, hugging each other, was moving for him. And that's the and moving for 10,000, 13,000 people. That's that's something missing in today's world. We don't have those kind of symbolisms, they are not amplified. They exist. There's tons of them. There's many examples. You are an example of that, the sisterhood in in the states, but those stories are rarely shared. And that symbolism would have a massive impact on the whole world if we find better ways and if we convince enough people to start sharing it. Because everyone says, Oh, I want to help you, I want to help you. This is the easiest way people can help is uplift those symbols that make people rethink where they stand and realize that it's not an us versus them situation, that we are on the same fight on the same side fighting for justice and equality and peace. This is as simple as that. And it takes just people realizing how do we uphold those symbolism.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

It's so difficult because the I feel like so much of the media is really looking for sort of the the you know, the the spectrum, right? The ends of the spectrum. And and it it's it's um so so often I feel like those are the voices that are that are really uplifted as as you know, so loud and representative. But you you guys are are the opposite. And you have certainly done a really good job of getting your story in, you know, you have the TED Talk, of course, uh, and you've had many interviews. You were interviewed by NPR um just a couple of uh days ago, um, as of as of this recording. And you know, how how how important has that been to kind of to you to your strategy to try to get the more people that listen to you, I think the more you know, the more people are gonna are gonna open their own hearts. Um, the more people who read your book are gonna open their own hearts. So, you know, it it seems like that's really been a an effective, hopefully, strategy that you that you've been using. Um, can you talk a little bit about that and how you've sort of developed that?

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Yeah, so first it came with many conversations between the two of us and with our board members in Interact and colleagues and partners in other initiatives, and we came out with a five-chapter roadmap to make peace by 2030. So, chapter number one is to dream. That uh we must dream because the field of dreams is where we change humanity. It's not a battlefield, it's not a political field, it's only through dreams we can create a new reality. And for for me, that I wasn't a spiritual person before when I was speaking about dreams, but I didn't get it as fully as I get it now. So many people tell us there is nothing to do, we cannot do anything. We are uh in despair, it's the darkest time in our life, and it is. But I think okay, now please close your eyes for a minute, two minutes, and dream about the best scenario, not just for yourself but for humanity. So that's the first chapter of the roadmap. The second is to amplify the dream. And this is exactly what you are at the sisterhood helping us, and this is uh what the TED talk and many of the things we must amplify the dream because we cannot keep it as a secret just to ourselves. It must be public, it must be shared, it must be loud, and we do we're suffering from the same polarized worlds, social media, mainstream media, and what we are creating is a new polar system. In one side of the spectrum, those who believe in justice, equality, and peace, and in the other side of the spectrum, those who don't believe in those values yet. So this is how we should be divide ourselves from the others. So all those who believe in in our values, amazing, let's work together, let's make peace. And if we dream big enough and we'll be loud enough, the others will just join us.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

That's absolutely beautiful. And your true I I ambassador is not a good world word because it's more kind of diplomacy and politics, but there is something very prophetic about what both of you are doing and sharing, and it's incredibly inspiring. And and I don't know what the sisterhood will do everything to make sure that your voices are heard. And um, I I just want we are coming to an end of of our time together, but I we said for five hours, no, you said listen, we we hope to have more time and have uh uh create opportunities for our members to hear more from you and and many other people. But you did refer to something in the book that I actually wanted to close the interview with. And that is, and I'm gonna read it, um, that just made me, I just loved it. And it says, we are already tearing down the higher mental walls of fear, ignorance, and hate that divide our communities. The physical walls will fall only when the walls in our hearts and minds fall. This book in your hands is a hammer. I just love, love, love, and I and I'm thankful for this hammer, and I'm hopeful that everybody will have this tool and work with you on breaking those walls. It's just incredible.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Amen. Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is a perfect, a perfect way for the ending. No, but we said we're gonna read a poem.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

I tell you why. Because poems, and we use so many Palestinians poets, Israeli poets, and international, they have all the answers. It's we cannot fix our broken realities with arguments, with logic. It's with poetry and with art, uh, with feeling, with emotion, we can. So for us, poetry and Aziz uh uh was also writing uh writing poetry in his youth. I'm waiting for his maybe Aziz's next book will be your fourth book.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah, it'll be a book of poems.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Perfect. So I think poems are so powerful, and they really made us who we are as peacemakers.

SPEAKER_03 32:38

Absolutely. Thank you for that. And please go ahead. Uh, we would love to hear it in your voices.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Do we do uh Samich al-Kasim or Taha Ali or you can do Samih Qasem and I will give the ending. Okay, good. So uh Sami al-Kasim is uh is a Palestinian poet, he's a Druze poet and uh an incredible uh uh person in Palestinian culture who's passed away a few years back. But he wrote this poem for peacemaking that I think represents both Maoz and I. And we've got the the okay from his family to to include that in the book and to be able to share it. And it goes the day I'm killed, my killer rifling through my pockets, will find three traveling tickets: one to peace, one to the fields in the rain, and one to the conscience of a humankind. So I beg you, my killer, do not waste these tickets. Please, please use these tickets, go and travel. And that's exactly our message, I think, to everyone is in the worst of moments, let's not, as Mao said, let's not only dwell on the sadness, let's not only dwell on the catastrophe, but let's even in those moments think how do we go to that destination of peace, of the fields, of the rain, and most importantly, it's it only you get to the peace through the way of our conscience, the conscience of a humankind.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Thank you so much. Um, this was so oh uh actually I did if we we have another quick second. Is Maos is Maos going to read? Uh I actually might if unless you have if you have one Ma'os, very welcome to read. I did when I read the the quote on your grandmother's uh grave, it was so it struck me like like lightning, um, which I'm sure it's obviously struck you, it's not like a revolutionary thought, but that it really felt to me like it represented you both. You talked so much today about about dreaming. And it maybe wasn't the dream that she necessarily was thinking of when uh you know when she loved the song, but it was it meant it it really made me think so clearly of the two of you of you know of of dreaming and and believing in a good future. And if you if you would, I I would love it if you would read if you would read that. Um unless you had something else that you'd prefer to read. I would read that.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

I'm uh yeah, it's uh really like tough English, so I'll do my best. Many teenaged coming together together, but I'll do my best.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

That's my struggle too, Maos.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Okay, yeah, so I'm not alone in this struggle, thank you. No, no. Then a poet shall sing a new song. His heart, aware of beauty sublime, for that young man above my tomb, blossoms in a worse, shall twine. And I think our dream is exactly the dream she she meant. I know, I don't think I know.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Thank you both, and honestly, I am uh um I cannot wait to travel to all the places you mentioned in your book. And I hope many people come and visit and and read the book and kind of use it as a guide. Really useful.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

I don't know when you will publish the podcast, but on April 30th, we are among the leaders and initiators of the People Peace Summit, Palestinian and Israeli, that will be take place in April 30th. The day before, we'll have a day trip to Gaza Envelope and hearing stories and and the pain in Gaza, the 29th, and then on the uh May 1st, we'll have a tour in the city of peace in Jerusalem. Hopefully, uh Aziz will guide that tour the day after. Uh tour to the West Bank, separate occupation and separation, and then the day after to a city on the edge of hope to Nazareth that I will I will guide. So we'll be happy to. There is a link and you can share it. And it's it come, you are welcome.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

I mean, everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

We will, but not you know, maybe we'll have a little stop off in this real before South Africa.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

That's not a bad idea.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

That's not a bad idea. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's see what we do for this trip. But in any case, if it's not this time, we would love to be there, but we would love to meet with both of you. And also, I just want to kind of give a shout out to all the peace builders and peacemakers you're mentioning in your book. You are really bringing up amazing organizations, amazing names, amazing people that I also think are walking the same walk. The two of you are, and and uh uh I just want to make recognize them as well because I'm so glad they are part of your book.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Yes, and exactly. We are also amplifying them. So it's a shared journey.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

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SPEAKER_03 38:29

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