PTR (PhysioTherapyRehab) podcast.

Episode 9: Oscar Dennis - Elite athlete interview (Ex rugby7's + elite triathlete).

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In this episode we have an amazing deep dive with Oscar into his difficult and challenging rehab experience after a devastating lower limb injury. 

His rehab journey is unique and we discuss how has been able to pivot from his elite rugby 7's career with Kenya on the world circuit into an elite triathlete at the 2024 Paralympics in Paris through immense hard work and a serendipitous opportunity ending up at the worlds biggest stage for Kenya once again. 

He provides an honest and open exploration of how he worked his way through a life changing injury.  I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did! 

#physio #physiotherapy #sportsrehab #oscardennis1 @oscardennis1 #kenya7s #triathlete #triathlons  #orthopaedicrehab

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the PTR for Death Therapy Rehab Podcast. My name is Warwick Schmidt, and in this podcast we interview subject matter experts, authors, and elite athletes to help inform clinicians and patients and generate discussions around sports, rehab, health, and how to get people back to their best. We hope you can take away some content and use it in your practice. Today we have an amazing guest, and we're very honoured that he's taken his time out uh to speak to us, Oscar Dennis, um who has a very uh interesting um injury history and um is an example of of mental hardiness and physical robustness to get back to where he is now. Um so I probably would butcher the introduction. So it'd be great if I could ask Oscar to just introduce himself and and um how we come to talk to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I thank you for having me. Um I am Oscar Dennis. I formerly played Kenya Sevens um for the majority of my life. I qualified for Tokyo 2020. I then had my tragic accident um that set me on a different kind of career path. Um, ended up in Paris with the tandem road cycling, and now on my way to LA 2028 for triathlon, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01

Excellent, excellent. I will actually pick your brains on how you went from a quite a short, sharp start, stop, start sport like rugby to to quite a hard long distance one. Um so look, we're uh if we could start from the beginning. So, how did you get into rugby? What what how did you get into that the seventh?

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, so I was I was actually at school in the UK for secondary school. Um so I was at a school called Kingswood in Bath. Um, grew up playing all sports, um played for Bath juniors um on my way up through school, which was which was good fun. And then yeah, I left school wanting to play rugby, but I didn't really know which direction I was gonna go in. Um I had quite a bad injury in my last year of school sport where I had um I had Gilmore's groin basically. Um not sure the the real name of it.

SPEAKER_01

Is it called Gilmore's groin or Gilmore's groin is um one name of a collection, yeah. So it's a it's a name after a clinician who diagnosed it, but it's uh it's um hernia essentially. Okay, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I missed my whole last year of school sport due to that. Um but then yeah, so then I went down to South Africa in I think it must have been about November after I finished school in July. Um, and I had a quick surgery down in South Africa because having gone for basically a year hadn't gotten much better. So I went down there, had that surgery, that fixed it up. I then went out to Australia um just to get back into playing rugby a bit. So I played for the University of Queensland for six months, went home, joined uh my club side there called Nondies, and played like the local circuit, our national seventh circuit there. Um, and then I got pulled up into the Kenya Sevens from that.

SPEAKER_01

Awesome, awesome. Was that a surprise for you? Were you were you gunning for it?

SPEAKER_00

Or I I was yeah, I was gunning for it, and Kenya Sevens has always been like uh I I've always loved the team, and the team's loved by loads of kind of spectators around the world.

SPEAKER_01

Um definitely a fan's favorite. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I've always I was always keen to keen to play for Kenya Sevens. Um and so playing like the national circuits, the coaches told me that the that the Kenyans kind of had their eye on me, then the season kind of finished, and I didn't really hear too much from them, so I just kind of was like, oh, maybe next time. Um and then I was actually playing golf and I got the phone call when I was on the golf course saying that we need you to come into training. Um didn't tell me I was gonna play or anything, but I knew the tournament was coming up called Safari Sevens. But they basically just said we need you to kind of fill in a training, come at this time, bring your stuff. So I was like, okay. Rocked up to the hotel and then got given a room key. And I was like, What? I'm not staying, and they were like, Yeah, you are, you're in.

SPEAKER_01

So good signs, good signs, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

After training, I had to go back home, get all my stuff, um, tell my family, um, which was all quite cool. So we had a quick little dinner whilst I was at home, and then yeah, went into camp and then played for Kenya on the weekend, which was quite cool.

SPEAKER_01

Awesome, awesome. Um, how long were you in that setup for then?

SPEAKER_00

So I was in the setup from 2014. Um well, actually a bit. So before I went down to um, so from kind of September to November, I was in the sevens a bit. Um but it kind of doesn't really count. So I well, I guess yeah, end of 2013-2014 was kind of my me into the sevens. Um so I did that for it was two and a bit years, and then I ended up getting a a place to study and play in Australia um for university out there, Bond Uni. Um, and then that was a two-year degree, finished that in 2018, um, then came back and yeah, I was then involved in the sevens again there. So it was it was probably it was about seven years I was in the sevens setup.

SPEAKER_01

Um that's pretty good. Pretty good. And then did you um Yeah, definitely as a as a rugby fan, sevens is is is amazing to watch the super series and the the world series as well. Um how was that tournament life then for you just going in and out of that stuff?

SPEAKER_00

Was that easy to get hold of or did you like it was I mean it couldn't it couldn't have gone much better, really. Like you go on tour and you're kind of with your best mates and your closest mates from around the world for 20 weeks a year back in the back when there were 10 uh 10 tournaments a year, we'd be there for a week for each one, you'd all be in the same hotel. It was just yeah, it was garbage. Um good fun though, very good fun. So loved going on tour. Um and it was yeah, it was a really I think like rugby's given me a lot in my life, um, and I always kind of want to give back to rugby at some point for sure. Um but yeah, life life kind of had different plants.

SPEAKER_01

Something uh changed that course, which has uh sadly occurred. Can you just talk us through the the night of of what happened? I did I've personally watched a couple of the videos and interviews you've done around. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

No, definitely. So which was quite interesting in um it's a in COVID, so we finished playing LA and Vancouver. Those were the last two legs on the World Series, and we got home I think on the 16th of uh when would it be March? And then the or the 13th and then the 16th, the whole world literally shut down.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So we thought we were going, yeah, we were going home to do like a bit of a home quarantine for a couple of weeks, and anyway, didn't end up touching a rugby ball for about six months. Um and in that time they managed to set up a World Tennis series in Bermuda. I don't know if you came across that. It was it was on Sky and on Super Sport out here and stuff. So it was like a pretty big televised event, and I don't know how they managed to get it up because it was in the middle of COVID.

SPEAKER_01

In the middle of it, it's growing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, great. So we got we got it was on the South African franchise side, and we got flown out um for about I think we were out there for about five weeks, if I'm not mistaken. And um, we were kind of uh an African kind of sevens-based side, and yeah, we ended up kind of winning winning that, and then I got home Tuesday morning, and then Tuesday night I got I got hit by the car. So people like always asked me about uh why did you get on your motorbike? Um, etc. etc. So I and I've said look, I I I I don't I never rode a motorbike on the road. Like my motorbike was up at home, it was an Enduro bike, I never rode it on the roads. And um, I took it down to Nairobi because I was off to Bermuda and I've been riding it through COVID, so it needed a service. So it went in for its service whilst I was away. Um my car, I've got a short wheel-based land cruiser that's got a little button on the steering column. So once you turn the key, you've got to press the button to turn off all like the electrics in the car. Um and mum had used my car and um hadn't pressed, hadn't turned the button basically. So my battery and my car was completely flat, and then my sister's car that was always in Nairobi, she just moved up home to where Mum is. Okay, so yeah, it was literally my bike was there, and I just jumped on my bike and I went um probably I don't know, 600 meters up the road.

SPEAKER_01

You wouldn't think anything of it, would you?

SPEAKER_00

And yeah, nothing. So yeah, I just chucked on my helmet, cruised up there slowly, went and saw my mate um and his mum just for a catch-up. We had dinner with them, had a cup of tea. Um the Kenya still had its uh like its curfew times. So it was 9 30, I think, and so about nine o'clock, yeah. I just jumped on my bike to head back home and yeah, yeah, it's I got to uh got I basically got to a junction and there's a speed bump just before and a speed bump you like kind of go around the corner and then there's another one, and there was a car coming, and I saw the car, but I knew the bumps were there, so I was like, okay, let me just pull out a bit on my motorbike. You know, I remember looking at this car and it hit the bump pretty fast behind me. Um deeper. So I kind of went to the next one and I sped over the bump. He also went over that next bump fast. Uh so I shot down the hill um and I looked back and he was pretty far behind. Um far enough for me not to look again before I turned, which I probably should have in hindsight now. So don't think about that too much. Sure. I um yeah, I went to I basically went to turn right and I had slowed down and was at the bottom of a hill, so he had accelerated down the hill as well. Um so as I was slowing down, he went to the other side of the road to overtake me. And obviously, if I then pulled across to that side of the road, he just yeah, T-bone me and the poor leg took all the force.

SPEAKER_01

Uh oh no. Gee, so that was that was the yeah taking the full force. And and did you did with the rest of your body okay?

SPEAKER_00

Did you did you come out of the it was, it was, and and surprisingly, and I don't know, like like you look at rugby and I watch rugby now, and I think I don't know how the hell I actually used to play rugby, but it's like the the collisions are huge, like the force in those impacts are it's massive.

SPEAKER_01

It's like yeah, yeah, next level.

SPEAKER_00

And I think literally I was like in the in the perfect kind of condition to get hit by a car. Um how it's fit. I've just been playing as a lot of it.

SPEAKER_01

You don't ever say that sort of thing, do you?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, being battered around a bit. Um, and so yeah, I literally got got hit by the car, my leg took like the force of the car, but my helmet was all like smashed everything up the back. Um, but I had no concussions, I didn't have any sores. I thought I'd basically got gravel rash over my, I thought I'd ripped my nipple off, but other than that, I was I was pretty much alright. Maybe a few greases on my knees. But um, yeah, the body was like the body was completely fine, and the car hit me like going at least 70 kilometers an hour.

SPEAKER_01

So that's decent.

SPEAKER_00

Which is yeah, which is which is nuts to think. And I just love to know because it was a hit and run. I'd love to know if like I went over the car or like around the side of the car. I don't really know where it's probably a blur.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um, and so yeah, I woke up unconscious in the road basically, um gasping for a bit of air. No, and yeah, I knew that the leg was gonna be broken pretty straightforward. Remember seeing the headlights and thinking shit, and next thing I wake up like looking at the stars almost. So I like checked my body, padded it kind of down, made sure everything was like alright. I looked felt down like my other leg, that was fine, and I looked at my right leg um and there was a big kind of open wound at the back.

SPEAKER_01

Sure.

SPEAKER_00

Um and I was like, oh holy moly. So then I went to lift my leg up to have a better look at it. Um and as I lifted it up, it was then just hanging, so snapped at the tip of the fib. Um and so that caused yeah, that caused that. So that was a bit of a shock.

SPEAKER_01

Um, sorry.

SPEAKER_00

No, no, so I thought like, well, now I'm in the middle of the road, it's a dark patch of the road, it's at the bottom of a hill. Like, if a car comes down, they're literally gonna run me over as well. So I like lifted up my leg and kind of pushed my sprawled off the roads backwards with my leg in the air. Um, took my helmet off, took my phone out, called my mate, I was with him, I said, You've got to come and get me. I've basically broken my leg and cars hit me. Um so can you can you come down here and help me? Yeah, he was super chilled and I didn't want to panic him either. He was like, Yeah, I'll be and he said it in a tone that I've heard before, and it takes a bit of time, he's not like efficient. So I was like, fuck well, he's gonna be a while. And then actually, uh a friend of mine was on her way home from uh dinner as well. Um and she was she was like, Oh, there's a motorbike, there's a white guy, I probably know who this is. Um not so many of us uh are white people in in Kenya, so I think if you majority kind of know each other, so she was yeah, unfortunately, she was the one that then found me and had to kind of deal with me. Um but she was yeah, she was super switched on and I don't know how uh so brave like to see the state I was in.

SPEAKER_01

So then absolutely. And then you you got to the hospital, and then it so so that at that point, what are you thinking is happening with the leg? Is it are you thinking oh just a break? I'll be braced or I mean I guess at the time you don't know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I thought just to break, but I thought also like it's gonna fucking fall off, like because it's just being held on by skin at the front of my shit basically, yeah, and no bones or all my ligaments were gone as well. So it was literally just being held on by skin, and I was thinking, like, hopping to like the emergency door basically at the hospital, I was like, it's I think it might just come off.

SPEAKER_01

Well, so did you do that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, she took you as you hopped. We pulled up to AE and it actually was all closed, it had like a padlock on it, and it's uh the curtains were drawn. So I jumped out of the car and I hopped to the the door basically and I knocked on it and said, Yeah, please help me, please help me. And somebody opened the curtain, they were like, because I guess they were just looking at my face, they were like, How can I help you? And then I looked my leg up. Just look down, yeah, yeah, and then I then I got down on the ground, and that's when they kicked got kicked out like everyone, everything started rushing properly, then like panic set in, like it you just hit me like a shock and all of that. So absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

All that drenched just phase away and you've got so yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So they drugged me up straightened the leg basically. Um, and it's not a very good hospital, so it I just literally went there to get my leg straightened and to get drunk up. Um Coral, who found me, she got on the phone straight away, and um her dad put her in touch with a surgeon and he said, just send me the photos now, take them to Karen Hospital, and then bring him to me later when he's basically like stable.

SPEAKER_01

Stable, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, yeah, so got kind of stabilized in Karen Hospital, and then I and then I got taken to another hospital in kind of Nairobi center called Arga Khan.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um and then there that's where my first surgery was.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Do you remember? Um, this is the the first of twelve, is that right?

SPEAKER_00

First of twelve, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

First of twelve. Wow. Okay, so you've got to at this stage is obviously he's too raw, you don't really he's dealing with what's in front of you. Um and the full the full scale of this hasn't quite hit in, has it?

SPEAKER_00

No. Um I think like being on the on drugs as well. Like I was chatting, I remember still sitting there chatting to the surgeon, and I was like, um, he well, he was like, So what are you up to? Like, how did you get like in this? What are your are you working? Blah blah blah. I was like, mate, I want to be at the Olympics in July.

SPEAKER_01

No pressure, no pressure.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no pressure. I just thought this is like a little break, I'll be put in a cast. I like I didn't at the time I I don't know how why I didn't think like of course I've snapped my Tim and Finn, but I was like, no, just put me in a cast and I'll be I'll be good to go.

SPEAKER_01

I was like, you do kind of think that initially, don't you? You've got no reason to suspect otherwise.

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, yeah, I guess. And be actually naive to it.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Well, it is it is uh coming from kind of a medical physio background anyway, just so it's it's easy to just assume um people know all about it and and know the names and what's coming. But yeah, I mean it that's part of a big part of the thing is the education and um expectation management as well. That's a big part of what comes quite hopefully early on. Um what was the first surgery? I mean, I'm not gonna ask you to recall the exact specific orthopedic procedure, but uh what what do you remember what they did for the first one?

SPEAKER_00

Oh thank goodness, because I don't have a clue what the right words are for it. But they um where the wound was basically at the back, they they basically couldn't plate it um because the risk of infection was too high. So the first surgery they did in Kenya was literally clean out that whole wound. Um the surgeon he sent me photos afterwards, like there's photos of it's basically like the flap of skin on the back of my legs open, and you can see all the muscle in the back there. I'm just below my calf. And the next photos afterwards were basically all the tendons and no muscle. You could see the back of my shin bone basically. So they literally cleared out all of that muscle, and and ultimately I think it saved my leg, to be honest, because I was then told, okay, we'll do the first surgery here, but then after that, we can't put an external fixator on, which is basically that cage. Um because we don't do that in Kenya, so you're gonna have to go down to like your closest center of excellence, which is obviously Cape Town. Um, and he the surgeon was like, Look, I did all my training there. I know the surgeon to send you to, he'll do everything for you. I've been in cut in contact with him already. We just need to get the minivac to fly you down there, basically. Nice, um, which is the air ambulance. Um so I was this the injury happened on Tuesday night, and I was told I had to be in South Africa latest Thursday night for my surgery.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Um's gonna have to come off.

SPEAKER_01

How did you was that was that organized by yourself, your family? Was that organized by insurance, or how did how did you get it?

SPEAKER_00

So insurance did it. So my insurance company were actually like really good with the whole thing, but they basically outsourced the Medivac company, um, which was an American company that I believe they were called America Assist or something like that. And as I was saying earlier before, like Kenya's quite a small community, um and so a lot of our friends are involved in the Medivac um kind of operation. And so we were talking to the this was like Wednesday, we were talking to the insurance, like what's going on. They were like, Look, we're looking for aeroplanes, um, we've submitted your proposal, blah blah blah blah. Um by Thursday, nothing yet. And so we basically called up a family friend of ours who's got a big um jet business there, and they do um medivax as well, and he looked through everything and he said there's nothing submitted with your name in it yet. So we went back to them saying, Look, nothing's been submitted. Now Thursday night, Oscar's been told he has to be in South Africa by Thursday night latest, so now you guys are negligible if his leg has to come off.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

So then, yeah, Friday I was I was on a plane down to down to South Africa. Um and yeah, still on all sorts of drugs. They filled me up with fentanyl on the way down there. Got down yeah, good stuff, and then got got down there, and um my leg had obviously swelled up. And so when I was in the little A and E section, they were trying to take the cast off, and I was in a bit of pain, and I was like, You're literally gonna pull my foot off if you pull me off. Yeah, like, look, don't worry, we know what we're doing, and I was like, I can't deal with this right now. So they were like, Okay, we'll get the doctor and we'll sedate you.

unknown

So the doctor came down, she filled me up now with ketamine.

SPEAKER_00

Um so that was a wild little clip as well. Um and yeah, it was so crazy. Like the whole NE room literally filled up with like my arms and my legs, like just spaghetti everywhere. And I was trying to find like my feet and my hands in this whole like mess. And it's weird because I'm like fully with it. Like I thought I was like looking around and seeing everything like in real time, but it was just filled with my legs and my arms, and then they kind of shot to the top right corner of the room, and then I went into like dream state back at Cape Town Airport, and they were like four individual things. So my hands were and my feet were all individual, and they were go-karts just racing each other around Cape Town Airport, jumping over like play-doh jumps and like like Mario Kart, basically. Yeah, what a shit. It was fucking wild. Wild, wild. So it came back around, the cast was off.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, and I was the go-karts for you, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, lying there on the bed. Um, and then yeah, then they they sent me in for surgery.

SPEAKER_01

So this is the first big one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, this was the first big one, yeah. And so this one I didn't know at the time, and they hadn't really told any of us, but um by them saying you've got to be down by Thursday evening, basically, otherwise your leg won't be alive. Um, and so my first surgery down in in South Africa, I was yeah, I went in for amputation.

SPEAKER_01

Um so you were listed literally. That's all that the bit of reading I did. You had you were listed twice for amputation throughout this, was that right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. So the first, so this was the first one, um, which we didn't really have any idea about. Um, but they were basically also after the surgery, the surgeon kind of came round when came came back in when I had come around and I was in recovery um and back in the ward and everything. My sister was there, and she was like, Well, as you can see, Thank goodness we didn't have to amputate, and my sister's like, what? And I was like, What? And they were like, Yeah, well, we we presumed that the flesh in your lower leg would basically be dead. Um because it's been sitting there for three days. So yeah, they were like, It's yeah, it's literally a miracle how it's how it's not dead, and it's it's you're basically a perfect host um to save a limb. So I also asked them about this, like how do you how do you judge someone depending if you're gonna amputate or not?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And they they basically said, as somebody comes in, we look at them, we say, like, okay, are they an athlete, are they an alcoholic, are they a smoker, are they blah blah blah, whatever. And they read your body as a host to save that limb. So they said, You are you're a professional athlete, you're fit at the moment, like you're you're a perfect candidate to try save the limb. So the flesh and your leg is still alive, so we had we don't have to, we didn't, we didn't decide to amputate now, and they said, right, you're in a you're in a much better position now because we put the the kind of A-frame brace in. Um, this was just before they put the X fixer on. And they said, right, you're you're basically 50-50 for your next surgery, but you're in a lot better position than your last one. So I was like, I'll take 50-50.

SPEAKER_01

I'll take 50, yeah, considering it was even on the cards, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so that was that was quite crazy anyway. Got through that next surgery.

SPEAKER_01

Um and sorry to interrupt. So this sorry to interrupt the next surgery. So this is literally the Friday. How long before the next surgery then? Is this is this days or are we talking weeks?

SPEAKER_00

Uh we're talking days. So in I can't actually remember how close they were back to back, but I had seven. So I was in hospital for like on my literally on the sixth week I got out. Um I got out just before Christmas. Um and so I had seven surgeries in the first five weeks.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. No, that's fair. I guess also with all the meds and the the go-karts and the hands and stuff and that experience, you probably weren't tracking anything.

SPEAKER_00

The brain wasn't the brain wasn't working in the right form, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so that was I'm not sure when the when the next surgery was, but it was it would have been pretty close. It would have been probably maximum, it would have been a week away. But I think at the start, I think they were all pretty, pretty close.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They get the they they go in the second time. When did the when did the um X fix the kind of cage come on? Did that come on for later?

SPEAKER_00

That was that was a second surgery. So they on the literally on the first surgery they just stuck the that kind of A-framey um type brace on that was kind of drilled in everywhere, and then the next surgery they pinned all of my toes, um, but they were all broken. Um I just getting my big toe, so they pinned the big toe, and then they stuck the X fixer on.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. And so the the the on top of the Tib fib, the the the muscle, the lesion, the the the the flap, so all of your toes also were they all fractured as well or dislocated?

SPEAKER_00

How did so I had I had broken my baby toe in the next toe in on the actual toes, and then the third toe and fourth toe, which I guess which way you look at it, basically just going from little toe inwards. Yeah, um if we look at it this way, so these two were snapped on the bones, these two were snapped on the is it your metatarsals or those in your hands?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the uh metatarsals in your in your in the foot, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So the metal tassels were broken there, and then my big toe was I'd almost chopped off my big toe in the accident as well, but that was also managed to dislocate itself. So they pinned that, uh pinned the next two underneath the toes, and then pinned the last two toes through the toes.

SPEAKER_01

Very good, very thorough, then. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It was they did a good job.

SPEAKER_01

Got a lot of work in there. I was gonna say, you just literally riddled with the stuff. Um, and then with the with the post-op stuff, there was that. Was that did they enforce? I'm assuming they to promote bone healing and and recovery, they enforced non-weight bearing for a certain period of time so that they could see whether there was bony union and and development of the of the bones again, is that right?

SPEAKER_00

Or yeah, so it actually took a bit of time because my my Tib and Fib snapped in such a way that they had to take out um a fair bit of bone that was kind of floating between. Um, and so then my so my right leg is actually three centimeters shorter than my left leg now.

SPEAKER_01

Three centimeters. Wow, yeah, which is a fair bit. That's a big chunk, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um and so the yeah, so once they put the X fixer on and it kind of started moving everything into place and pulling everything together, um it did take a fair bit of time for that um healing to start. And so the surgeon was kind of like so. At this time, I was at this point, let's say it's okay, it's it's after Christmas now, I'm out of hospital. Um he said, Look, you can you can carry on, start doing your rehabbing, start trying to walk a bit on it, um, as that might also kind of speed up the the healing in that area a little bit just with the blood flow and everything. So the interesting thing with that X fixer is that it takes all the force. So even though I had like a snap Tib and fib still, I I was able to like leg press, and there's a few videos I'll send you some of it on the leg press pushing with the with the X fixer on.

SPEAKER_01

That'd be great to see that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but it was kind of a bit of a catch 22 because like obviously training's been a massive part of my life, and to keep fit and all of that kind of I had to to keep me mentally sane. Um absolutely, but it also also led to a lot of like infections in the pin sites from the X fixer, yeah. So I think for about six months I was like I was basically on antibiotics just non-stop trying to get infections down. But uh and they were like, Look, why don't you stop this? But I was like, if I stop this, I'm just gonna go into a spiral of basically negativity.

SPEAKER_01

So I'd rather be on antibiotics for six months and literally be able to cope with my cope with release, release the release the stress, yeah. Just just get a bit of get a sweat going, yeah. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, like the hardest thing about that as well was I didn't actually have a full shower for six months. So obviously I like showered and stuff, but I'd have to sit there with my leg out of it, and then I'd have to get like little cloths and go around all my pin sides to clean my leg and stuff. And so, yeah, trying not to get that wet for like six months or stand in a shower or fully submerge yourself in like a bar. I remember when I when I first did that after six months, and I was like, oh man, this is yeah, this is like the next big win.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. It's a huge uh walking. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Do they not have the um water? They're sometimes able to get. I don't know whether um they have like the the waterproof, yeah. I don't know whether it's big enough, you chuck on the phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um unfortunately just wasn't big enough to get around the X fixer.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, yeah, yeah, that's fair. That's a pretty big thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so then when I when the X fixer finally came off and they put they decided to plate it. So I said, look, I don't even mind if my Tib and Fib aren't fully healed yet. If you can take this X fixer off and go in and plate my leg, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So they then decided, okay, yeah, your everything's kind of in line and your skin grafts. So I had three skin grafts. Um, so your skin grafts have kind of healed down there, so let's go in and plate it and get the X fixer off. So they went in and plated my Tib and Fib. So yeah, two plates, 16 screws, and then I got the then I got the the condom on the leg for a few weeks, and then that came off, and then we were freely in the shower.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, off to the races, literally.

SPEAKER_00

Off to the races, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Where did where did the skin grafts uh go then? Assuming it's most of the mostly at the back where the where the the biggest wound was?

SPEAKER_00

So where the yeah, exactly. So where the the initial like explosion was out the back of my leg. Um that was that was the biggest skin graft. Um so one was on there, and then where the where the Tib and Fib had pushed, they had it didn't push through the skin um on the front there, but it had killed a lot of the a lot of the skin in that area. So one skin graft was then on the front of the shin. Um and then the my ankle as well had also basically pushed forward. So I lost all the tendons through through my ankle as well, actually, when I when I broke the leg. Um so all my toe tendons, I couldn't lift my foot, I had drop foot. Um, and so there there was a big wound that actually took the longest to heal.

SPEAKER_01

I would imagine that generally bone for someone who's healthy, doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, bone is pretty resilient stuff. Um responds very well to the load. You you put it on, it gets stronger where it needs to be. But uh tendons and soft tissue connected tissue tends to be the one that lingers the most. So just talking to that there was literally a rupture of all of your foot tendons, is that right? Or were they the strain?

SPEAKER_00

No, I lost. I snapped through all of them.

SPEAKER_01

So when my ankle basically yeah, push forward was that the tendons at the front of the ankles, or those the ones that lift, we call it dorsal deflection where you lift your foot up.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. All so like if if you're sitting there now and you go to lift your foot, you'll see your toes will also lift up as you do it. Um and you can feel all the tendons on the front of your ankle there working, so you've got all your toe tendons that run up there and all that. The the tendon that comes to your shin bone, your Tiban muscle.

SPEAKER_01

Very nice.

SPEAKER_00

Um and yeah, a little bit there.

SPEAKER_01

Very good, very good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I I didn't have that. So still to this day, I can't um I can't lift my toes up. I can grip with them still, like a little bit, like I got a little bit of kind of grip, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Deflection. Okay, sure.

SPEAKER_00

Um, but I can't lift them up to this day, and then um I've now managed to get get I well I had drop foot for 10 months. Um, yeah, I was I the scarring had healed from the being plated and stuff, and now I was in a moon boot. Um, and we were kind of doing rehab and stuff, and then it was about yeah, 10 months in. I was then talking with my a new surgeon, but had been there the whole time as well. But he was just like, I can't do anything just yet, but we'll get to me when we need to. Um, and so it got to a point where now it was time to to try and get the foot working again. Um, and he said this is honestly a very, very rare case.

SPEAKER_01

Um, yeah, it's it's that's right to double check, I had to double check that all of these tendons are gone. That's yeah, that's yeah, interesting.

SPEAKER_00

So, what's the plan? Like, because I definitely don't want drop foot for the next, well, the rest of my life. Rest of your life. Um, and he was like, There's look, there's one thing we can do that I I believe will work. Um, so we can take your your hamstring out. So I believe there's in your hamstring it's two are majority muscle and then one's majority tendon.

SPEAKER_01

Um pretty much, yeah. One's got a bigger tendon, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so they basically took the whole tendon out from that one.

SPEAKER_01

Um that's that's normally the one they do with ACLs.

SPEAKER_00

With ACLs, exactly. Yeah. So they took they took that whole tendon out and they basically were like, right, we can drill it into your big toe. We'll anchor it into your big toe, um, but in the foot. So not actually on the toe, but in the foot there. Um, and then we will run it up through basically the side of your skin graft on your front of your ankle. Okay, and we will then attach it to the Tiband muscle, um, where the old tendon would have been.

SPEAKER_01

Fine.

SPEAKER_00

So they did that, they did all the surgeries, everything. Um, it was in a cast for I don't know what it would have been, maybe six weeks, let's say. Yeah. Um, and then yeah, then time to decide if it's working or not, which is the most terrifying time.

SPEAKER_01

Were you were you nervous? Were you nervous going into it? It sounds like that was the yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like this was this was like probably the hardest part of the whole leg I went through. Um, just thinking I because I kind of managed to get past everything else. Like they were like, Oh, you won't walk again, you won't run again. Um, and I knew I could do that even if I had drop foot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. Uh surgeons tend to again, I don't want to generalize, but I think surgeons are they're getting better. Um but they have to give you the worst case.

SPEAKER_00

So I was like, right, well, now it's either I know yes or no if this is gonna work, and then I've either got drop foot for the rest of my life or not. And uh sat there, the cast came off, my foot was sitting there, and then he was like, Right, try lift it now. And I was like, Jeepers, I don't even know if I can think. Yeah, I tried, um, and there was a there was a little bit of movement. Um, and you he started like celebrating, and I was then like, Yes. Um, and it was yeah, it then got kind of better and better throughout the day. Um and honestly, it was like a massive weight off my shoulders, yeah. And I was like, right, relief, like I I've got my foot working again, I can actually live a normal life now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, um, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

And then it must have been three days down after that that it stopped working.

SPEAKER_01

Uh what happened this time?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I was sat on the sofa with um with my with my mate and his girlfriend, because I was living with them down in South Africa at the time, because that's where all my surgeries and rehab was. And I was like, Katie, do you think my is my foot getting like less and less as I try and lift it up? And she was like, I think it literally we were watching it, like getting less and less. And it got to a point where it just didn't lift anymore, and I was like, Oh lord, like what is going on here? Like, and that's the worst part, like mentally, that's the biggest like struggle I'd ever need to. Um and so I called out the surgeon straight away, and he was kind of like, Look, I I don't think it's much to worry about. I think basically the the hamstring is too strong for the tibant where we attached it. Um so come in, we'll do a we'll do a scan, but the scan was only a few days after that. Um so I couldn't go see him straight away. So yeah, I was really, really my lowest point.

SPEAKER_01

A few days, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I was literally just crying, I think, for those few days. Um and yeah, so then I went and saw him, he did the scan. He's like, yeah, the scan shows that it's basically come apart from that bit of the of the tibant. Um, but he was like, But don't worry about it, I've got another plan up my sleeve. And I was thinking, okay, so what are we gonna do now? And he was like, Well, because your toe tendons, we haven't attached any of those, they're just kind of sitting there. Well, take your second toe tendon from the toe next to my middle toe. So they took that, they basically intertwined that through the hamstring and then intertwined it up through the Tiband muscle. Sure. So I don't know if I can get my leg up higher.

SPEAKER_01

We're testing your uh mobility now.

SPEAKER_00

So you can see the hamstrings.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_00

So all the fashion is on, so it doesn't hold it down. So the top of that, they uh yeah, they reinforced it onto the Tibet muscle and then yeah, into into the hammy, and yeah, since then it's been working.

SPEAKER_01

It's been good. Um I think what that what they can do, yeah. So you get a get a good surgeon.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01

For him to it sounds like he almost kind of made that up on the on the move, really, to try and help biomechanics-wise, trying to get it through. It doesn't sound normal, as you said. Pretty rare case.

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, and he and he sent me all the videos of them like where they were drilling it in and attaching it, and then like moving the foot and seeing the tendon through like the slice they had done, like it's all it's pretty grim stuff, but it's it's fascinating to see.

SPEAKER_01

It it sounds fascinating, just uh just seeing that there as well. So the the the have you heard of a tissue called retinaculum? So that's so that's just leverage, so where the tendons coming up here or above, I don't think basically the retinaculum keeps the tendons close to the bone so that the they pull as a better lever, and I guess without without having the ability to recreate the retinaculum, it comes up off the skin off the front. Yeah, is it sore?

SPEAKER_00

No, it's not actually. It's I the only pain that I get is after I is after I race now, really, and I get like a like a deep growing pain kind of feeling in the in the bone. Um other than that, no, it's it's uh honestly it's remarkable.

SPEAKER_01

Like nice from and it doesn't yeah, from being it doesn't affect your training.

SPEAKER_00

No, like it's I I mean like I think I could potentially have got back to playing rugby, but I just thought it's not worth it. Like having saved my leg, having saved my foot, like what if somebody was just to chop me in like a freak tackle and it was all to go again, and like I don't I don't have the mental capacity to go through that again.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think I don't think anyone would blame you for that. I think that that would take uh a normal ankle tweak to another level, uh yeah, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_00

You just for sure for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. Um this this is this is further down the line. So this is into 21, is it? Or 22 now?

SPEAKER_00

This is probably 20 yeah, probably end of 21, 20, starting 22. Um, so I actually I think it's let's say let's say it's end of 21. Then I did um so I did yeah kind of a year and a half in South Africa after my accident, with just like lit like thank goodness I was uh like a professional athlete before, and I didn't have to get back to an office job, and I had all these contacts down in South Africa, and so I spent a year and a half literally doing rehab. That's that's and yeah, my surgeries in rehab, and it's such a good facility down here, it's where the uh Springbox Sevens are based. Um, it's the high performance center. And so yeah, they just took me under their wing and they just said, Yeah, Louel, we'll get you back.

SPEAKER_01

Um what uh out of interest that you got to the stage now where you can start loading. Do you did they in terms of the first assessment or so with the physios or the rehab team, did you did you did you set what goals did you set from that point? Did you start you mentioned not turning into rugby, or did you start saying, Look, I want to my long-term goal is X1Z, or did you say, right, I'm just gonna take it jogging for the first, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, so it was quite early on that I realized um the Olympics was gonna be out the window.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, shame. That must have been hard.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that was that was quite hard. And then rugby was out the window. Um, and I kind of then thought, well, let me just take a step back, look back at where I've come from, what the goal is, and let's literally take it day by day, see what we can achieve day by day. Like let's do an exercise. If that exercise has got a little bit of pain during it, but I don't have pain in the evening or the next day, then we know we can keep pushing slightly, slowly, slowly. So we worked on kind of a measurement of pain, I guess. Um there's a few things that we we also kind of incorporated that was quite fun. So I was like, well, I need to do a bit of kind of cardio stuff, so just use like the the hand um like bike thing which got water in it, and then on the rowing machine, we actually put two rowing machines next to each other. Um, so I'd be locked in on my left leg on on the one, and then this I'd be I'd have my foot on the seat of the other one that was just in front. So as I pushed everything back and forth.

SPEAKER_01

Nice. Um, I think I saw uh I saw a Sonny Bill clip where he was doing the similar thing where he had his foot in a boot but on a skateboard. So he was just doing a similar thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so it was it was such a yeah, I mean that rehab kind of time was was such an interesting was we know what we knew, no one none of us knew what we could achieve in that.

SPEAKER_01

Literally new things every three to six new frontiers kind of thing every few months, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

So like the whole time, the whole time, and we kept like achieving these things. So I sat there with Joe, who was kind of doing the whole process at the time, and um, yeah, we were like, Well, what can we do? Like, I was like, Look, to be honest with you, if I can just get back to living like a normal life playing social sports, that's a huge win for me. Like, I I had no intention of kind of ending up going down the route I've gone down now, but uh I was like, if I can get back to just playing social sport, I am I'm super chuffed. So yeah, we gradually built it up. I they've got a um like a one of those gravity machine uh treadmills here.

SPEAKER_01

Uh Alter G.

SPEAKER_00

Ultra G, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So there you've got the Ultra G here. Um, so I got put in the U G, I was walking in the L to G, I then built up to a bit of running.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Then I yeah, carried on progressing, and then ended up doing a bit more running in there and then running outside of the treadmill, but on a treadmill.

SPEAKER_01

Um how how was that out of interest? How was that first the first running session? Do you remember what it was like going like right this year?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I well at first I was thinking I don't even know if I know how to run because before I'd just been running in a zero gravity thing, so my legs were kind of just going around. Um whereas now getting onto the actual treadmill and moving a bit, like yeah, it was it. I mean it was it was so different to feel because obviously, like in my ankle, I've kind of lost like that the shock absorbers as such.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So even now, like when I run, like my right leg really thuds on the ground. Um it just doesn't have that spring. So even if I do like single single leg like hops or bounds or whatever, like it's it's minimal.

SPEAKER_01

Um okay, fine. So you're generating that from like your your knee and your hips really, you're you're you're getting that mostly from there further than than your ankle, then.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So the ankle, yeah, it's kind of so when I was running, it was all felt now a bit like different. Obviously, my legs are a bit shorter as well. Um But just to be able to run again. I again it was like when my foot was working, like it's right, the next win. Um super stoked with what we've achieved here. Let's build it up. So we moved like outside doing a lot of kind of diagonal work with cones, changing direction.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um which was awesome. And then yeah, and then that was kind of time where I was like, I think I can I can finally go home. Um I went back to Kenya and was just working out there. So in hospital, um, a good mate of mine called James Murphy, who is a boy who I met on the series from the Springbox Sevens, um, he basically said, Look, come down, my mum's got a house here. Just literally move in with her. And so I think my mum lived with her for about a year. Oh wow. And they became very good mates. Um, and so me and James set up a flooring business when I was in hospital. So I went back home to Kenya for the year um and kind of got that up and running properly at home. Um, was on the ground, I was kind of occupied with that. I was playing touch, um Wednesdays up at home, I was playing hockey. So life was life was fully normal. It's just like I was a retired rugby player now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh but as it got better and better, I thought, right, what can I what can I do now to challenge myself? So decided to do a triathlon. Um just uh one for fun, just kind of in like a game reserve near us. Um, and ended up coming second in that. And I thought, bloody hell, well, the legs running quite well on a 5k. Um, on the swim, it's fine. So is there a route we can it kind of sparked an idea in my head to kind of think to try and get to to Paris for triathlon? Um, yeah, which was a crazy idea, and I didn't realize the whole process I was gonna have to kind of I was gonna follow from there, but there was no chance I could have made Paris basically for triathlon because the time was just far too short and I wasn't good enough. Like the level of like Paris stuff, it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Like yeah, they're so funny.

SPEAKER_00

The the the category I fall into now, which is your least affected category, like the boys are quick.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So there was there was no hope. But um, yeah, it sparked sparked an idea, and I sat with the Secretary General of the Paralympic Committee and he was like, let's go for it. Um, so I got in contact with uh with Stellenbosch Academy of Squad down here where I did all my rehab, and I said to Joe, Joe, do you know anyone involved in triathlon down there? Is there a squad I can join? Um and he said, Yeah, there's actually Vicky, who's one of the South African um triathletes, she's got uh she's got Stellenbosch triathlon squad, so we'll put you in touch with her. Um they just brought in a coach called Colin Fleming who's running the high performance part of that. So I sat and I had a call with him and Vicky and I said, Look, this is my vision. I think it's pretty crazy, but I wish you'd be willing to would you be willing to see if we can make it work? And he said, for sure. Um so yeah, I I came down to South Africa and started my kind of triathlon journey in April of 2024. Um and in the time I was still in comms with like the Kenya lot, and they basically asked me to to be a chauffeur for them in Paris because a lot of them are disabled as well, be it like visually or missing a limb or whatever. So they said, Can you basically drive us around Paris? So I said 100%, like yeah, just to be part of the games would be very cool. Um but I was I'd been registered by Kenya for triathlon. Um so this is then how I ended up in Paris participating, but not in triathlon.

SPEAKER_01

Well how how did that what ended up happening there?

SPEAKER_00

So it was but I I know so I I left having done a few months down here with triathlon, I then left to to head to UK to do a few races there because over winter here the races stop. Um and it asked me to source a tandem bike. Um and so I went to this triathlon and I bumped into this lady that was racing on a tandem bike, and I said, Look, this is crazy, but where do you know where I could get a tandem bike for Kenya? They're going to the Paralympics, we need to like find some bikes. And she put me in touch with this guy called Tom Ward, and him and his dad um built this tandem bike, and Tom focuses on like the uh aerodynamics of like wheels and um the bars and everything, and his dad builds the bikes. So we got this very cool bike built for us. Well, it wasn't for me at the time, built um that was gonna end up in Paris, and the boys were gonna race on it anyway. But when I got to Paris, I had no idea that um the the para guys on the tandem bike had actually had a crash, so they they were in a they were in, I think it's called Compignon or something, just like as a as a camp, just before going up to Paris, and they actually rode through a red light um on their bike, and a car was obviously going through on a green light and they T-boned the car. Um and so the pilot, so pilot is the guy basically on the front of the tandem who can see he's got a visually impaired guy behind him. Um they went through the red light and he flew over the car, broke his collarbone, broke his hip. So now they were out of the race. Basically, Ogada was still good, he's the athlete. Yeah, but their bike now was fully broken. Um, and Ogada basically wasn't wasn't gonna be able to race. And so, as I was now driving around um the officials, I was chatting to the head of cycling, and he was kind of like, What are you up to? And I said, I do triathlon. I tried to get Paris for triathlon, but way too short notice. Um, and then he said, Well, that's quite interesting. The boys have had a crash, you ride a bicycle, just give me a bit of time. Anyway, he comes back and he said, mate, you're in, you're gonna be racing. I was like, What?

SPEAKER_01

No, um, and so I now called up coach my coach down here, Colin.

SPEAKER_00

I said, Colin, you're not gonna believe this, but I need you to write me a program basically like three days just to get me riding as much as I can.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00

And so, yeah, so now I was yeah, in Paris, in the village. Um, never ridden a tandem bike in my life.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, yeah, no pressure.

SPEAKER_00

So, yeah, I mean, the so now the bikes arrived, and they arrived, I think probably three days before the event. Um, and so this day they arrived, it was pouring with rain. It was actually quite funny because the bike that did arrive was a bike that I sourced in the UK and now I was racing on it. Nice, and um, it was pouring with rain. I said, I got it, we just gotta go. Like, I I just need to get on this bicycle and understand. You just need time, yeah, yeah. So the first I left him by like a tree on the first lap, and I said, Just wait here, let me just do a lap, and then I'll come and get you. Um, so did the lap, went and got him. Um, and the third time I rode a tandem was on the start of the Paralympics line.

SPEAKER_01

Man, yeah. How did you that's what I we'll get into the race now because that's really what I get into it. How did uh in terms of comms and things, is there a tactics and and things that you're feeding back to him, or does he just rely on you to how did you learn that?

SPEAKER_00

I mean it it's it was like so. When I moved when I got into the village, um I got to know him very well. Like you have to obviously because he's visually impaired, he can't get around the village, so like all the meals, everything I we I literally lived with him for the whole time I was there, so got to know him pretty well the first few days, and then we would just we would discuss, and I was like, What do I need to tell you? blah blah blah blah, and I basically had to tell him everything. Said, Right, we're cornering right, cornering left. Like I had to tell him where to take his nutrition, so like every 15 minutes was like a gel or the bottle.

SPEAKER_01

Um and break braking and things like that, and down gear.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I control all of that, but I would tell him, so I'd say, right, we're breaking here, stop pedaling because you're on the same cadence. So yeah, yeah, like you're speaking non-stop here, you're blown out your ass, and you've got to speak non-stop.

SPEAKER_01

Like a rally driver, isn't it? The co-pilot just constantly sure, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

And there's no we didn't have headphones or anything, so I was like kind of having to shout like under my arm or outside to tell him, like, geez, what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01

So how did the how did it go?

SPEAKER_00

We almost fell off the bloody blocks because um at the start of it by the ramp, I was like, I got it. So what's our plan here? And he said, Okay, let's just go up like quite a high gear, and so we start it fast because the guy will give us a bit of a push. Okay, anyway, it was like three, two, one, and there was no push. And now I was like, 'Noting fall off this little block as we started our race.

SPEAKER_01

Um in the high gear, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

In the high gear. So I think we I think we finished 10th out of 11th in the in the time trial, and then uh that was on the Wednesday, and then on the Friday we had the road race, which was 130ks. Um, yeah, and we actually like when the men finish it, they then kind of stop the race. So we had got lapped, and so we got pulled off the course basically. Like we could have done one more lap or and stopped halfway, but we decided right, we're at the start and we're gonna get pulled off, so we just pulled over there where all the tents were and stuff. So we got a DNF actually for the for the road race. But um, but yeah, crazy, what an experience, and unbelievable. What a what a funny way to have like missed out on Tokyo having qualified to then ending up in Paris for the road recycling.

SPEAKER_01

Um, yeah, and then that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, on from that, I kind of came back down to South Africa. I got my classification all done for Para in October. Um, last year I did my first triathlon event, and then yeah, here we are today.

SPEAKER_01

Um you pushing on training wise. What's the next uh you mentioned before we started recording, what's the next big stick that you're aiming for?

SPEAKER_00

This this year was kind of like to get points and experience and um just get on the circuit and get on start list. So you have to have a higher world ranking to basically get on start list because our start lists are quite small. Um, and so this year I try to kind of maximize the points that I could and also get a few bigger races in just to get some experience um against some of the top guys, and it's gone really well. It's kind of all gone to plan. I became Africa champ. Umgratulations, thank you very much, and then that also gave me my qualification spot for world champs. So great. I'm now I'm now sitting yeah, 13th in the world, um and off to Australia in mid-October to to race world champs, uh which will be awesome.

SPEAKER_01

Nice. Well, excellent really good luck for that. I think it's not far away, is it? Just the CEO seems to be going faster and faster, disappearing. Unbelievable. I think it's when do you head out?

SPEAKER_00

I'm going out next Saturday, so the fourth. I'm actually going to Perth for 10 days, so I'm good mates with the Irish Para in my category and the Aussie Para in my category. Um, and so when we're in Montreal in um June, July, we're racing there, and we basically set a plan. We said, well, if we're all going to world champs, why don't we come to Perth for a bit? So yeah, off to Perth for 10 days to train at their institute there, and then we'll fly to Sydney on the 14th and then race on the 18th down in Willongong.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, amazing. Well, I'll I'll keep an eye on for that. Uh I'm sure it's gonna go really well. Uh do you know what I was just thinking? I know it sounds uh boring, but logistics-wise, if I tried to catch you when you were in Australia, it would have just been a nightmare trying to do the time difference. So I apologize. No, no, it's fine. Like you're busy training and and life's busy. So yeah, thanks for responding. Um, we have got about five, six minutes left, but I mean that's that's that's all the the whole journey basically in real detail, which has been amazing to hear. Um I just yeah, there's so much so much that we've covered. Have you got any other other uh goals going forward?

SPEAKER_00

So you've got the world, and then you've got um what's what's after you've after obviously the world is pretty big, you've got to get that ticked off, but yeah, unfortunately, com games there's been a bit of a spanner in the works with com games and it being thrown country to country, and uh Glasgow accepting it, but then cutting out 10 major sports, one being triathlon, um which is a shame because that's quite a nice break kind of and also an awesome tournament as well, like to get to. So, but it's a nice kind of build-up to your Olympics. So that's out the window. So it's just yeah, it's another year on the circuit. Um, trying to build up I obviously the goal is LA 2028 Paralympics for triathlon. Um, and you want to be top 10 in the world for that, so they take only 10 from each category. Wow, um, okay. And so the goal is the goal is to get in that top 10, and it's been it's been okay getting into down to like 13 has been alright, but uh 13 down, 12 down is uh it's hard work.

SPEAKER_01

Uh the last but the last little bit, yeah. No, no, hopefully it goes. Isn't it? Jeez, that's the way it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Let's see, the body, the body's yeah, I mean I'm still so new to this whole like endurance side of sport. Um, it's been a massive change from rugby being kind of especially sevens like short, sharp. As you said, yeah, it's like it's got a little bit of endurance there, but it's very much kind of explosive, and what you can expect wrestling for seven minutes sprinter.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Yeah, I uh I uh interviewed the seven GB7s and X All Black Sevens physios for a podcast on the difference between 15s and what it what it actually bought down to was a pod podcast talking about sprinters and hamstring injuries because seven sevens is literally just all about top speed, you know, maintaining that turnover. But yeah, yeah, I've done exceptionally then if you've it's April last and you've turned to a different sport and it's already ticking over like this. I think you know I meant to ask how I turned 31 last Monday on the 15th. Plenty, plenty of time. Plenty of time.

SPEAKER_00

The body's definitely struggling a bit more, but uh, I'm still a lot of life left in the bones here.

SPEAKER_01

Oh man, you're talking about it. I turned 35 this year and I tried playing rugby again recently, and it just after a few years out, and it's it's yeah, in bits.

SPEAKER_00

It feels like you've been hit by a car, literally.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, absolutely. No, uh Oscar, it's been an amazing to have you on. Your journeys is is an eye-opener, and uh thanks for taking the time uh to be on the podcast. It's been amazing.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thank you very, very much. It's always yeah, it's always cool. It's always cool to chat to to new people on different podcasts, like you coming from like a I guess like a physio kind of background as well. Um chatting through that son of stuff. So it's yeah, it's super cool, and hopefully my journey has it's I I put it out there on social media just to help others. Um, quite a yeah, quite a motivational, inspirational journey on my way back. So if it's if it can help people out there, then yeah, I'm chuffed. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Especially no, no, great inspiration for those listeners and and hope Fisio is listening as well. Um, listen, we'll let you get on. Um, I'm sure you've got plans this evening, and uh we'll definitely keep an eye out on how you go um in in the next competition.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. No, thank you very much. Yeah, have a good weekend, and we'll chat soon.

SPEAKER_01

Chat soon, eh? Thanks.

SPEAKER_00

Cheers, no worries.