Episode 10: Elite athlete interview - Powerlifter Dean Bowring.

Welcome to the 10th PTRpodcast Episode! I'm very privileged to bring you my interview with Dean Bowring, a world and European champion who has held world records in several powerlifting events.

In it, he is very open and provides a great insight into the way he discovered the sport, how his talent took him quickly into the GB team and then onto the world stage. It wouldn't be a physio podcast without covering his injuries and rehabilitation and we cover several, as we learn how he was able to overcome these barriers and push onto bigger and better lifts. 

I hope you enjoy listening and discovering more about powerlifting and physiotherapy!

#physiotherapy, #physio, #powerlifting, #lifting, #gym#, rehabilitation, #deanbowring.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the PTR Physiotherapy Rehab Podcast. My name is Warwick Schmidt, and in this podcast we interview subject matter experts, authors, and elite athletes to help inform clinicians and patients and generate discussions around sports, rehab, health, and how to get people back to their best. We hope you can take away some content and use it in your practice. Okay, welcome to the PTLR rehab podcast where we talk about injury and rehab topics. Today we have an athlete interview, and today we have Dean Ballering. He is a world-class powerlifter. He has numerous um accolades which I'll ask him to run through in a second, including, if I'm not mistaken, um World Masters Bench Champ, World Champs Open 2009, 2013, Commonwealth Champs 2005, 2011, and a little bit more recently, a couple of world records. Is that right? As a Masters? Uh no, is that further back?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Yeah, I won some Masters Euros just recently. Just recently. Yeah. So I mean I've I started powerlifting in 1994. I just basically stumbled across it in a in like a leisure centre. Okay. I was just went there um as part of my college course and uh and a guy in there said Croiky, you're pretty strong. Yeah. You should do free weights, and I had no idea what that was. Okay. How old were you at this time? So I was um 17. 17, okay. And uh so he gave me the the address of a a place in Southampton, Bedford Place, Terra Morris's gym. Basically, it was a brick building in his garden. Went across there and uh he said, Do you want to be a powerlifter or a weightlifter? He showed me the differences between the two. I said I quite like powerlifting, and uh and that was it. I never looked back.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Stuck to it like a like a time.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

I I was pretty strong, I really enjoyed it. Um I can even remember, so on that day, something I would never do if I was teaching somebody to powerlift, but he got me he got me to max out on the first day in the gym. Okay, so but I can remember as in his gym, 17, yeah, I did a 165 squat, a hundred and five kilo bench, and a two hundred and five kilo deadlift. That natural real natural talent. So he said, like, you'd be really good at this. So and then I carried on, and uh um then next thing I knew I'd enter the British Championships. How long after that that session do you think? I think it was in the same year I entered the British Championships, so I I did a divisional qualified of the British. Sure. Back then used to get a letter inviting you to come to the British Championships. You don't get that now. No, um he uh so off I went. My family were really supportive. Right. So I'd never really been into sport apart from that.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Um that's a pretty big step up, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

So and then off I went. So went to the British from my first British, I came second, um and I didn't like the feeling of coming second. Okay, so that started that. Yeah, so that really started things. So off I went then, and I I trained really hard, went back to the there that was the under 18 British Championships, and at that time, under 18 and under 23 was two separate competitions. So I then went to the under 23s, because in doing the under-18 one, I'd qualified for the under 23s with the weights you were beating. With the weights I lifted. Um and that same guy was there that beat me the under 18s, and I then beat him. Awesome. Um and then I got invited onto the international team. So then 1994, I think, was my my I didn't. That's it. The world you sent me the list. I got to be able to do that. So I I think I then went off to the Euros in ninety four. Okay. Where I didn't I think I came about eighth or ninth or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Um you got the you sent me the Euro Junior Champs third. What ninety four? Ninety four, third?

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Maybe it was ninety three then it all started for me. Maybe you said it was a little bit. Yeah, my first one was definitely Belgium. And uh and um and I can't I was about eighth or ninth, I think. Um great and then and then it all w just went mad from there, and I started winning and I'm winning domestically, and then got medals internationally. Yeah. Um the list is extensive. Yeah, so and then here we are today. I think I didn't think I put it on there, but 31 British titles. So I've I've won British Championships 31 times. That's um that's amazing. And then I think on the list is 23 or so international top threes. Right, that's impressive.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

And you so the um the book end, we're gonna go through the middle of both, but you said you recently congrats on the recent recent data. When did you compete for that? You said uh more recently the 2024 one that t-shirt.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

No, no, no, no. So now I'm um I think my last competition was um I think I did the Euros in 20, Euromasters in 23, which I won. Um and then I think just after that I did a big competition in Manchester. I think they call it Manchester Open, which I won that, but but that then was like the end for me. My hip was getting pretty bad. Okay, and um I'm sure we're discussed, but I've got arthritis now, so uh that's kind of finished um competitive powerlifting for me at the moment. Although I have just entered a bench press comp bench only. So okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Well um I'm sure uh those that will go really well. Um and I think the you said 93, 94, you sent me there was uh 94, 95, 6, 7, you were third, first, third, second, and then it just kept kept going on. Um did you when you when you got into the team, did you start to quite quickly size yourself up against others and feel that you had that advantage naturally, or was it did it take time as a youngster around other people?

SPEAKER_01 5:28

I think um when I first got on the team, I didn't expect to be winning internationally. I'd seen what the other guys internationally were lifting, yeah, and obviously I'd fell into this sport, I didn't even really know what it was about, that's it, and um and they uh and I thought they're all gonna be like superhuman compared to me, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um because I was I'm I'm still pretty chubby, but I was a bit of a chubby kid. I just naturally was alright at being strong. So um I uh when I went to my first Europeans, the one we said in Belgium, um I saw that the guys looked the same as me. They were lifting a lot more weight, but they looked the same as me. And I think a switch flipped in my head, and it was like, if they can do it, then why can't I? Yeah, um and that's what happened. And I think I put well over a hundred kilos on my total in the next like nine months, I think. That's incredible. Um yeah, and it's just because that that the switch that had gone that drive I can do it, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah, so and away I went, and it was uh and that uh we'll come back to the coaching because that's quite quite interesting. Is it but hopefully the audience will be physios and people interested in powerlifting, but it might pick your brains a little bit, you know, how how a physio you might advise physios to to help powerlifters in the future. Um but yeah, your coaching you were with the same coach all the way through, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 6:49

No, no, so um I started basically I was doing everything myself. I was I was like reading reading Weeder magazine, yeah, so I was basically kind of doing bodybuilding workouts, gotcha, and then just lifting big weights on the days that I did the big weights, um, or the the main lifts, the squat bench or powerlift or uh deadlift. But um, and then I picked up a coach, uh uh Ron Reeves, his name was. Yeah, um, he was a great man, um, he's passed away now, but uh he took me right through right up a one load of junior stuff. Um sort of really got me to love the sport and who I was. Um and then I moved on from Ron to a guy called Aaron Singh and we're still great friends today. Great. Um and then that's when I I really took off then. Yeah, I think anything in strength, if you're gonna do it naturally, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um takes a long time. It's uh I think you eight years, I think, is where you've got to start, is where you'll if you've put eight years into it, yeah, then you'll really start to make the gains. If you've already been training before powerlifting, it might be a little different to that, but if you've not done anything, yeah, I think you turn eight years is where you have to put your benchmark for getting strong. And I think I think my weirdly, my strongest years, um, I think 2014 was probably my strongest year. Yeah. And I was 40 then, so we're talking that is. Yeah, so I so then you know it's 23 years before I hit my stride. That's my strongest, and I actually didn't win anything that yeah. I I won a third in the Europeans, I think. And then um I went to the Worlds, and the Worlds that year was my best ever performance, so I came fourth.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

That means that isn't it? You just gotta hit your PBs, do your best. Yeah, that's amazing. Um, so the the um the first knee injury. Um oh that was what I was gonna ask you, sorry, uh, was to come back and just for listeners just briefly explain you earlier on we were having a chat um watching your son do incredible lifts, which hopefully we'll put a little if he's okay, we'll put a little highlights wheel uh because it's incredible to see. But you started having a bit you kind of enlightened me about what the different types of powerlifting are, and you had two types.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Yeah, so there's there's two different types of powerlifting. So you've got a power lifting which um allows you to wear uh equipment, so they wear uh knee wraps on their knees, which is like a uh a stretchy bandage that they took around their knees and uh a super suit. So it's like a like a harness. Yeah. So it's like a thick leotard that they wear. And it basically is like a harness. So when you sit back into the squat, it's really tight. So it kind of takes a little bit of the weight off of the bar as you sit into the sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Oh sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

And then the bench press um they wear again, it's a t-shirt, but really thick material, but the sleeves face f come forward. So when you bend your arm, you stretch the front of the shirt. And that the same thing implies there, it takes weights off the bar. The idea is that so it it it and then obviously in classic powerlifting, you're not allowed to wear any of those things.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

No, absolutely. So which would you which one did you tend to move into too much?

SPEAKER_01 9:51

So when I started powerlifting, there was only powerlifting. The classic powerlifting didn't exist. Yeah, yeah. So you just you wore a super suit or you didn't, you didn't have to wear it, so they weren't they weren't differentiated. Um no, but uh everyone wore one because obviously it makes you lift a little bit of weight. It'll help, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have lifted classic a couple of times, but it's never really interested me. It's only actually been around, I think the first worlds was 2014 or 15, somewhere around there. Yeah, I think was the first world. So I was well into powerlifting by then, and you I've kind of indoctrinated into the wearing off kit, yeah. Sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Um, no, and an amazing um um career. You had the the last bit that I'd like to talk about. I don't know if you were more than welcome to move on, but the the the full powerlifting world record masters won, the total 1045. When did you do it? When did you achieve that one?

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Um so actually that total was done at my the best ever competition that I said I just did so 2014 World Championships, where it was the men's world championships. Okay, but um but you can do a master's world record, so it was a master's world record, but okay, because I was 40, yeah. So um, so I achieved it at that competition. Um it only just got broke last year, so that's amazing. Yeah, so 11 years, yeah. 11 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

So great. What was the cuddle for masters?

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Uh it's 40s, isn't it? Okay. Yeah, so you you're yeah, you when you turn 40, that's it, you're in the masters then.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Nice, nice, nice. So there's still hope for everyone who thinks they can't get strong and they're 40. Yeah, I mean, that's my best years.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

I mean so I think it's amazing. Yeah, my best year's 35 to 41 is probably my best years, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

That's interesting because there's a crop, you there's a kind of anecdotal but also evidence to show that um endurance sports, people do better in their late 30s, early 40s, 90s. Like maybe ultra running. Yeah. You've got a complete uh other end of the spectrum, but at least you know if you wanted to drift one way, you could still get improvements in both. Um so the the first injury, uh, we don't have to necessarily bullet point everything and go through detail, but uh, there is one we both know we're gonna try and talk through, which was which was pretty pretty severe. But the first one was an arthroscopy in 97. Was that something that put you back quite far?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Uh not really back. I I can remember I did not long been training, really. I've um just a couple or three years, yeah. And uh my knee was aching terrible, and um, like I say, I've always been quite a big lad anyway. Um so I just went to the doctors and they sent me for physio, and then that didn't really work. And then you know what the NHS is like, takes a little bit of time. A little bit of time. Next thing you know, he's saying, I think you need to see a consultant. So I went to see a consultant. They said we need to have a look inside there. So basically, that's what an arthroscopy is, is they just have a little look inside, see if there's anything. But he said, While we're in there, it's only key surgery, but we can clean the debris out correct if there's anything we can see, we can you know remove it or whatever. So, which is what they did. They said they just uh flushed it all out, and after that, I felt marvellous after that.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

So that how much how long was that? I mean, it's a a while back now, but how long was that rehab do you think?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

It wasn't very long, it's um it's probably only I don't know, three or four weeks afterwards, and I felt pretty good again. I was that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

If you it's not a disruption to the to to much of the main ligaments as well, so if it's a small lesion, they'll just kind of clear it up. So and that knee touch wood hasn't caused any problems since. No, pretty good surgery.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

No, I have had another knee surgery since then, which I put as an arthroscopy on that, on that list, but it actually wasn't. It was a uh tendon decompression.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Okay, talk to me about that.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

So uh it was me being I was actually at a paletting competition in Denmark, yeah, and um there was an assault course on the we were staying on like uh it's a good start. Yeah, we were st we were staying on uh the accommodation was like log cabins, and in the middle of all the log cabins was an assault course. Okay, and uh me and my friend Ellie, who's also world champion pallifter, she um she said, let's go and do the assault course. So I I did it and I I can remember jumping over a fence or whatever it was, you know, that in the assault course, and I landed really heavily on my knee. I didn't think anything of it, but it started to ache. And what it was, I'd had a I can't think whether it's the straight up and down tear in the the the the lower the tendon in the knee. Interesting, okay. Um so which is why it wasn't healing because it was straight up and down, so it just wasn't coming together.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Was this the one of the in the kneecaps?

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Yeah, just yeah, just below, yeah. So then um so the decompression is they go in and they make lots more cuts in in it in the idea that your body will then say, right, there's actually some damage there, we're gonna repair it. Let's get some healing going. Um and that's exactly what happened again. So yeah, all credit, that was it. And and I carried on palatin after that, yeah. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

And then pushed onto some big weights as well, so that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Well, that was 2018, so I was kind of that was 2018, so I I was already done with that. I did win some masters stuff after that, so it's all right.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Still kept going, that's awesome. Um, quite a I guess common but not on not common in the powerlifting, weightlifting world is the torn bicep. Um, I think everybody's watching themselves probably seen some viral videos where people are doing their pings. How did yours so present?

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Again, the same thing. Um I was doing a deadlift, I was a little bit overexcited, and I snatched at the bar instead of actually having a straight arm when you pull on it, yeah, which is what I try and I teach all my lifters hands are hooks. So when you do a deadlift, if you imagine your hand is a hook, so it's pulling your arm straight, you're not engaging the bicep in any way. Yeah, yeah. And what happened to me, I think it was about 340 kilos, and I just as I started to lift it, I snatched at it, and that was it, and the bicep just went.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Did the bite but did the bar come off the floor and replacement?

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Yeah, it already came off the floor and then it just went. Yeah, obviously let the bar go. And then stupidly, I was told by a doctor that it wasn't a complete tear, and then all these years later, I got a little tiny bicep.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

I was gonna ask, so that was in the list, but we didn't see whether you had surgical repair, whether you No, no, it just got left. Got left. Okay, alright. But I mean it it's in terms of the evidence, if you're younger, more athletic, they tend to try and push for surgery. By that stage, you were I wasn't too old.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

I won the world's after that, so it was all it's actually never really affected me. The only thing I would say about it is that it tires quicker. Yeah, so now it gets if I'm doing anything bicep work, it gets tired much quicker. Okay, but um, but in terms of strength, it's exactly the same as the other side. So your your pr your press and your uh squats and your deadlift. Yeah, so anything well, yeah. You don't really use your bicep for that, but not too much. So if I'm I don't really train biceps, but if you do like a chin or a lap pull down or something like that, it doesn't affect me at all. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

And did did that put you out for a long time?

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Um it was a few weeks, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

That's that's that's not a small injury.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Uh yeah, I still tried to bench. I can you don't need biceps for benching. The only thing don't listen to that. Yeah, yeah. It was uh deadlift it put me out because I I couldn't straighten my arm properly for a while.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

So that's that fits in. I think it's that's something like 0.3% to 6% out of a hundred thousand people or something small like that that happens. Um generally, so there's a hook test called uh the test called the hook hook test where you find a tendon, then you should be able to put your finger up underneath. But that's a bit hard to find and you can't quite reach it thing generally with the mechanism. Should have suspected something and got you seen at least. But uh it's it's amazing that you've gone gone all these years and it's still going strong. So doesn't bother you now? No hand moving?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Was there a big bruise there? Do you bruise easily?

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Oh no, I had a blood test today, yeah. Oh, um it's not really too bad. No. So it's just you can just sort of see there. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yeah, there's a bit of a difference in that bulk. Yeah. Yeah. So did it, did you did you have the classic Popeye sign where it comes up quite far? Yeah, it was, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

It was a bit, I didn't really notice it. Obviously, it was coming in oise for a while, and then I just dipped the number. I don't know. It was I'd won that British anyway, so there we go. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Some somebody's got some pain threshold. Um, so that didn't put you out too much. Um awesome. So, yeah, just in terms of time frame, the next one uh was a quad. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Tall quad again, just being silly. I thought I'd enter a strongman company. It was never going to be my back, strongman, but it was in Portsmouth. I thought I'd go along for a laugh. Yeah. Um and then I was I was doing okay. I think I was right in the like second or something on that by the time that we got to this exercise. Yeah, but it was stupid, it was a hack squat machine for max reps, which you should never do because it's a makes it makes you really vulnerable. Yeah, um, and I'd won the event, and then there was a crowd there, and they're all going one more, one more, and I was like, Yeah, one more. Yeah, so I did one more, and there was a massive crack. Gotcha. And uh, and then I've got a hole in my quad that's never been done anything with, but it's still there.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

But so still didn't get itself like that. You okay? So that's yeah, yeah, that's fine as well. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

I've never really noticed that at all. I can feel it sometimes if um with me that it's there, there's a little hole there, but there's no, it's never affecting anything. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

So that would in terms of time time out. Was that a quite actually that was quite a long time that was, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Probably that probably took me maybe 10 weeks to get over that, I think. That's pretty good. Yeah, that's pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

So it's so I mean, especially such a demanding that you know, squats, you can't really hide from that. Um, and didn't see a doctor, didn't see a physio, just I didn't see a physio, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

I went to see a physio a few times, and um, yeah, they worked on it quite hard.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

I think it's uh and they were they were help happy we're heading in the conservat we call conservativism on surgery, and you were happy with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um there is a lot of surgery out there at the moment that's over the last few 10 to 20 years, where historically you just get put in for surgery, and these days surgeons are getting and and we are all getting better at saying let's just see how we feel, and it then becomes a patient decision. You know, it's not necessarily uh I have to have surgery, it's where are you in your life, what are your goals, and and for somebody powerlifting, one might assume you go for surgery, but you know, you obviously wouldn't have anything else.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

I don't think it was like a like a I mean it's obviously it's enough to leave me with a little hole in the hole in it, yeah. So pretty decent. But um, it never really I don't know, never it never really seemed like an option. I just you're quite quite comfortable with getting water.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Yeah, amazing. Um so this was the 2014 one. So this is the big one. Okay, so do you want to tell uh tell us about that?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

So it was uh I think October um 2014. We were just doing the last squad sessions. I was with the British team doing the last squad session, training for the world championships in November. And um I came out of uh I think I was weighing about 118 kilos or so, and uh I was just it was a 405 kilo squat and I was coming out of the squat, and as I came up out of the squat, there was a massive bang in my shoulder. Sure. Um obviously I had no idea what it was. Yeah, um I can remember screaming out. I got took there was it's on video, I got the mick took out of me quite a lot because it was quite a high-pitched scream.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Okay, well it's understandable from what happened.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

The bar went back in the rack, and then but then there was no pain whatsoever.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

So once you were on full loaded, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah, there was no pain whatsoever. I I later found out that's because it was a complete rupture of the auxiliary nerve. Yep. So there was uh that's why there was no pain because there was nothing there to say that there was a nerve endings to send information, yeah. I instantly lost all touch sensation to my upper arm um and all deltoid function was gone. Quickly, quickly.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah, did you find that they they atrophied very quickly?

SPEAKER_01 21:05

So I went to A and E because I knew something was wrong. I couldn't work it out because I could still lift my arm up. We thought it was rotator cuff, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I could still do all that stuff. Um I went to A and E, they told me it was rotator cuff. Um which I d luckily for me, I didn't buy that by that time. Okay, so that's good. I don't think this is right. So I then made an appointment with my doctor. Okay. Um I went to my doctor, the doctor said, I think you need to go back to A and E to get anything done faster. So that was in Birmingham. I went to the first A and E. I went to A and E down here in Portsmouth, and um they basically said, Okay, we know what's happening. And the the doctor was really good. He he kind of just he um he put his hand on my shoulder and got me to lift my arm up and down and said, Okay, I know what you've done. There's no deltoid function whatsoever, and there's no muscle fire. You could feel that even though I could still lift my arm, but it was my trap doing it. Everything. You were coming up. Yeah, yeah. Um so then it's a weird sensation, I guess. So then I got put forward to the Royal Stanmore. Yep. No. Um to do nerve surgery.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Really incredible shoulder work there.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Oh, I could never thank them enough. What a great hospital as well.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

We look at we look to them for guidelines and protocols and things that use amazing stuff.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Off I went to Royal Stanwall, you get booked in and said, even though it's NHS, it's lovely. There was a little welcome pack on my bed. It was really nice. You watch the video before you go in. Yeah, yeah. So um then I was uh it was five hours of surgery. Um I can't get my t-shirt, I've got a pretty big scar on my shoulder. No doubt. Um then uh they basically said that that by the time I'd got to surgery, it was like the March. So it was this was in October, so it was like the March. Okay. Um and they said that the nerve had started to grow again. Correct. Um, but they said but it had nowhere to go because nerves were in chiefs. Correct. And um so they then said we've rebuilt everything to try and and like stuffed it all back in. Correct. Guide, guided it. Yeah, yeah. So it all grows, so they said it all grows back. The idea, and luckily for me, that surgery went really well because um the idea with that surgery is they were gonna take the nerve from my lat or a tricep to fire the deltoids again. But because the nerve had started growing again, yeah, they um didn't have to do that, so they managed to get it all put back together enough that um they just said now you just gotta wait some time.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Do you remember what they used? Okay, this is asking quite you know demanding question, but it in if they didn't find another nerve sheath to use, what do you remember what they used and stuff? I have no idea. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

I all I can remember is that I was really mortified that he said that they had to cut some muscle. Yeah, please don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

I was thinking you must have thought if they'd said they're gonna take nerves from your trapped in your lap. I thought it was over, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

But generally, and then and it I think for me, in terms of my palleting career, um it it has finished it anyway in in terms of top level. Um because even now we're over ten years later, yeah, and I I reckon I get about 50% function in the shoulder compared to um the other side.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

So and and with the function, uh is that if you're three-man lifting, you just feel that it's so it's all bench press.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

The other lifts are fine, the square identity is fine, um, even shoulder press is fine. Um because the main the shot the part of the shoulder that doesn't work is rear. So that's what's left. So because when you're on the bench press, you need that to stabilize your bench press. So the rear the the rear delt has to really hold you, hold you when you press the bar. Yep. And also what it does is it enables you to lock out. So what happens now is when the weights get heavy, is my shoulder just lifts like this, and then I can't lock anything out when you're up here. Yeah, and that's all that happens.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

So it's um it's yeah, and it's unbelievably rare injury. The other thing, interestingly, with um EMG studies with Bench, the heavier you go, um what they've found is that obviously, in terms of uh your your press, your deadlifts, your rows, the different muscles that you like, your row will lead with the lats, it's understandable, but what they found is the heavier the weight, the more your anterior cuff um fires up to prevent the lats pulling the shoulder out. So it's the body basically going, Well, no, hold up, we're gonna we're gonna keep you in because the lats are so strong, and then the pec does the same thing. So when your pec gets fired up even more through your your 70-80%, your your M muscle firing, your posterior cuff actually actually starts firing to make sure your pecs don't pull you through. And one of the terraz mine are one of the cuff posterior cuff muscles innervated by that nerve as well. So then that's part of one of will be part of that process of not being able to connect. And it's just not there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

That's it's uh I do still feel that today. If I try and isolate anything around the back, it's it's ne it's nowhere near as strong, doesn't work very well.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

And that's just that's just your mind muscle connection, you just can't quite yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

I had to go back to Royal Stan or um, I think I went every three months for a year and um and they did like the old conduction testing and yeah, just to test the nerve and that, and then after a year they said I think it's about as good as it's gonna get. Okay, and that's it.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

I think that's it, it's one of those, unfortunately, with those you do reach a point where the time frame matches the predicted healing rate of the nerve, and that's where you again end up. Um and so it it's well it put quite an interesting interesting mechanism. You would expect something like a bench press or a yeah, I have no idea what happened.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah, the only thing I can think is that the the bar sat on my shoulders was just in the position where it was pinching it, and as I came out, it just stretched it too much that it and the and it was being held by the bar that it just it just went.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Were you were you on your way up there?

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Yeah, yeah. I was I was probably two-thirds of the way out of the squat.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Yeah, did you did you get a complete lift for that?

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Oh well, I was training. Oh fine, yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Um did you have any bruising with that one?

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Uh no, I had no bruising at all, just nothing, nothing.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Yeah, and the numbness do you still have that?

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Yeah, but there's certain places on my arm where you could put a red art poker and I wouldn't know you're doing it.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Yeah, yeah. I was that was one of the questions was how much of that has come back, and obviously we've still got still got that left over.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

The the way I can describe it the best is because I know somebody's if you're touching me, I know that I'm being touched, but it feels like there's a magazine on my arm. Does that make sense? So, like somebody's put a magazine there and then they're touching you through the magazine. It's so far away. Yeah, yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Interesting. Um, and so do you in terms of um do you you don't squat anymore? Uh or do you train squatting anymore?

SPEAKER_01 27:20

I squatted right until the hip got too bad. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Yeah, so how did you manage that? Uh did that affect it that much, the squat?

SPEAKER_01 27:26

It did to start with. So I had no bar position, so because it the sensation wasn't there, I couldn't feel where the bar was.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

You couldn't put it in the right plot.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Um eventually that I got used to that eventually. Um the guys would tell you that I used to go under the bar and I was never in the middle. Because I always thought I was in the middle and I was never in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

So did you need maybe other people?

SPEAKER_01 27:44

So they would they would adjust me into the middle and eventually that became the norm that I would go back into the middle, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Body adaptation that happens is incredible, isn't it? Um so do you don't get any um no worsening, and then the deltoid muscle itself, the posterior aspect's gone, but you still have it doesn't look like there's a huge no no, I've tried strangely.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Um since I've not been squatting, um I've been doing a a lot more shoulder training, okay, and I've done the biggest shoulder pressing that I've ever done in my whole career. And I was quite strong in shoulders, so yeah, so weird. So I did a seated press behind neck for two reps with 130.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

So that's bar behind neck going over the top. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah, which is something I've never really been able to achieve that before. Was that recently? Yeah, just recently, just yeah, probably a month or two ago, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Was that part of your training for the benchwork that you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Uh yeah, I've just I've just taken to on a Friday night where I'd normally squat. So I come in with my son and and the other guys, they all squat and deadlift, um, and I'm I normally I'm helping them. So then um there's another guy comes in a little bit later, yeah, uh Ralph, and he does shoulders on a Friday. So I just started doing shoulders with him. That's cool and that's what I heard.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

I need to I need to take a leaf out of that book. Uh my arms are not the the the the the weakest part of me there. Um yeah, also that that's incredible, and just the fact that you've got back to where you are is amazing on that one. Um you mentioned your knee arthroscopy um in 2018, so that was the one where it was an artroscopy. Yeah, it was decompression. Um and talk talking about the hip. When did that when did that start? Do you think?

SPEAKER_01 29:20

So in 23, I I actually think it's been going on for a long time. So without really realising it, I've been probably the last six years or so, I've been feeling like a little pinch in the groin.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

The way it often often started, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

And uh and I didn't really know what it was, I didn't go and see anyone, I was just you know, typical bloke. I think I've got to be dying before I'm going to the doctor.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

By the by the other injuries you have as well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

So uh and but eventually it was starting to cause problems. So in 23 um I started to get red lights on the left side. So you have three referees when you do a squat, and your hip, the crease of your hip has to go below your knee, that's how low you have to go. Okay, that's very good. Um and I'd started to pick up a red light on the left side all the time. Just the left, just the left side, and I didn't know why. Yeah, but so obviously the right side can't see the hip, and from the front it's very difficult to see the hip crease. But what was happening is I was laying off of this side. Gotcha. So it I wasn't bending as much. Yeah. And you weren't necessarily aware of that as well. And I wasn't aware of that. Slowly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, um also on the deadlift, I was getting I didn't something that never happened before. I was starting to pick up a red on the on the left side on the deadlift. How did you get around? And that's because I wasn't locking out. So you just stand up at the top, but this hip wasn't locking out, it was staying back. Because one of the things that's happened with the hip being like it is, is the glute has kind of stopped. Yeah. Um, so now I can't drive through to lock out.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Yeah, the tightness of the front of the hip flexor. Wow, I didn't know so. That's that must be really fine, fine margins when they call those reds, especially that's right.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

And now we're at the point now where I mean I limp when I walk. Um and uh I've I've been going um and having some Cairo to try and help me a little bit. Yeah, um, and I I think it's definitely helped me with walking the pain of walking as kind of ease right off now. That's good. The limp's nowhere near as bad as it was. Really? Um I lost I've lost all internal rotation. Yeah. So I've got first signs. So my gait had reduced to like just the length of my feet. Okay, and so we shuffle. Yeah, but actually going to the Cairo and I've they've been seeing me very often, um, and my gait has come back quite a lot. I've got a little bit of internal rotation back now through seeing them, so um walking has become a bit easier. Um, however, things like bending to put a sock on or do my shoelace up is a nightmare now. It's pretty non-existent to be fair.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Is there some this affecting the activities of daily living your way, DLs? Is that something that's now? It affects me.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah, it affects me every day, yeah. And it's been going on for a while now. Yeah. Um I've been to the doctors about three times, they don't really want to do anything because you can still walk, so it's they don't want to do however I had some private x-rays done, and I've got a friend in Scotland who's a doctor. Okay. Um she showed it to a hip specialist that works in a hospital, and he said he could fix that with an aroscopy. So what he said was that the I I don't know what the terminology is. So let's say so where the femur goes into the hip, sure, it's the hip that has overgrown, it's got spurs or whatever on it. Okay. And he said, and that's why I can't bend properly because it's pinching. Sure. So he said we could go with an arphoscopy and we could take all that off, and then I'll be good to go.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

So it's it's called aero femoral acetabulary impingement, so F-A-I. And you get two types you get CAM and pincer. So uh the CAM is necessarily where your the neck itself gets thick, and you can't and you can't move as well, and your rotation is affected because the neck of the thing is thicker. So where you'd be able to get around the corner if the neck is thicker, and then the pencils kind of sounds like yours osteophytes or the growth around the um the the not the labrum but the the joint, and that's the pencil type. So then that's necessarily that's what's causing the pitch. Um and those are um relatively common. I think in elite footballers they say that almost all professional footballers and those who involved in heavily uh change of direction hit hit dominant sports or developed them quite early on. And for somebody who's been training and lifting like yourself, I think it it sounds it could be worth turning into a bit of a device, but like it could be worth looking at because if so I've I've looked into it.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

So you know how what it is nowadays with with doctors, it's very difficult. Um but I did an e-consult, I attached all those five x-rays to the e-consult and told the surgery what the doc my friend doctor had told me. Sure. And um, I have got an appointment on Monday. Well, so I'm they're gonna go in and I'm gonna say, I want that done. Sure. I want that investigated and looked at. So let's try and move forward.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Well, I hope that goes well. I mean, it is it is generally something that you again like it the holistic approach of patient-centric care, you'd look at all of the factors of your life, and you're now it's affecting putting socks on and affecting walking. If it had gone backwards, then obviously that sounds a bit more logical.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

That's how bad it is, yeah. Right. That's how bad it's laces. Let's get to see the yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

No, absolutely. I well, I hope that goes well. I mean, I think it's touch wood, you know, the outcomes generally from orthroscopy tend to be a little bit better. I haven't done specific hip orthroscopy research for this episode, but um, in the past I have, and I think generally you'll get a bit more range, a bit more freedom. Um, the rope, the rotator cuff of the hip, so your small rotators, um, internal, external rotators will be massively important post-surgery because you want to control that. Um, and then mobility around your hip flexor as well to open that up. But uh hopefully, and but one of the things they'll probably be looking at, they've probably told you already, is is probably to just delay any total hip or total you know, joint surgery for the floor.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

I'll worry about myself, yeah. I'm 51, I don't want that. No, but if I've got an opportunity to be able to walk without pain, that's yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

And I think there's that for somebody who's fit and well, and I think what what's really uh physios at NSK generally love people who do who are keen, you know, we want to lean into that and help you as much as possible, and and obviously patients who don't aren't anyway. But for yourself who who who loves to gym and comes regularly, there shouldn't be too many barriers and working on glutes and things. There should be some stuff might not look quite as cool as a as a big a big deadlift or a squat, but uh I think a few months of rehab should should help quite well. Yeah, right. Um and yeah, it's a it's a pity that it's it's it's got to the stage, I guess. But you with your pain threshold.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Are you taking pain because sometimes if I do a lot of walking in a day, yeah, I have to have pain relief, otherwise it's uh awful. But um, so if I go on holiday, I tend to uh take ibuprofen every day because that means I can walk around. Yeah, um and it's okay. Otherwise it ruins everything. Sure. Because you just I I I already noticed that I now if that if there's not a car parking space near the front of the shop I want to go to, it fills me with dread because I know that the even the long walk across the car park, the way back is going to be horrendous.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Yeah, it's it's it's draining as well, I guess. Yeah, you're tired. Um it does affect you and you get grouchy and all sorts of it does affect. So hopefully that settles down uh quite nicely. Do you have any other injuries hidden in the in the locker that we haven't mentioned? No, I don't think so. I'm sure there's hoping not.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

I'm sure there's been loads of stuff over the years, like you know, back niggas and things. Nothing ever major has ever happened apart from that. You've had all the major stuff you've had.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

I was gonna say that's a good list anyway. I just thought we'd uh double check. Um, what is the what future goals have you got in terms of powerlifting? Then have you you mentioned bench? Are you going for that?

SPEAKER_01 36:43

So yeah, so I'm a masters two now, so masters one is is 40 to 49, and then now I'm 50, so obviously I haven't lifted for a couple of years. But uh my friend Ellie again, um, she's just turned to be a bench only athlete because of family pressure. Yeah, um, and she said, Well, come on, you can do bench, can't you? Uh which I can. Obviously, I'm not like I was when I was before the injury in the shoulder, but um, but I can bench. Um, so I've still pressed 200 a couple of times. It's amazing. So um, so yeah, so I think we're gonna go from that. I'm gonna I need to qualify for the British, which I'm gonna do in December, and then um and then I'll lift at the British, hopefully lifting at the British. I'll get on the on the British team for the Masters 2 team anyway. Awesome. And uh and then the World Championships in Poland next year.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

So what time when that's May? May. Okay, so it's coming around, can't it? Yeah, it'll be no more.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Surprisingly, yeah, this time of year it goes up to Christmas, disappears quickly, doesn't it? So I've got to try and fit it all in because also I'm not a British coach. I was gonna that was the next question because there's no team the coach for the the head coach for the British team. Amazing. Um and their Europeans is in early May. Okay. Um and we've got the Worlds in Romania in November just coming up now. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Well, are you man as a coach? Have you got any any injuries you you're having to manage from other from the athletes or anything there?

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Uh no, they're all pretty good. Wow, we've got we've got a couple of lifters that are straining with age a little bit, but uh yeah. Powerlifting's a hard sport when it comes to that. When you when you've been doing it I I always said um I think if you train at a high level 20 years, and then I things will start to wane. Start to feel it. You wake up in the next morning and you know. I think if you've not been at the high level for a length of time, then you you're okay. But I think and I don't think what it matters what age you start, I think 20 years. Yeah, so I think people that start when they're 30, they'll be able to go on a lot older. That's interesting. Um but there we go.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

And that coaching was a natural fit.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Yeah, so uh I obviously with the shoulder injury, I need I wanted to stay involved in powerlifting. Yeah. Um so while I couldn't lift um when the shoulder was recovering, um I started doing a bit of coaching. I first of all I um started going away with the junior team as like an assistant. Um then I became the coach for the junior team. I also then at that time joined the bench team and I was an assistant coach on the bench team. Kind of learning your craft, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Like so you're just soaking up for the colour. Yeah, yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

When I say coaching at a competition, so this is they call it the game day coaching. So there's a lot of tactics um picking picking weights and and knowing what your lifter can lift and all those kind of things. So um that's how I think I've learned that over the years. And then I started working with the head coach for the British team, um which was actually my coach years ago, Aaron Singh, which I mentioned him. Um and then when he thought it was time, he then said that he was gonna retire from being the head coach, and then I took over. Very nice. It's a quite smooth transition. Yeah, that was in 2017, say, somewhere around there. Yeah, awesome.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

So how how much of that we had a break for COVID. Yeah, that must have been hard. Uh did you how did you cope with that? Did you sneak? I mean, gyms were closed for a while, I guess. Did you see stuff at home?

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Did you work with it? So we actually took some kit from here and uh because my son was fully into it, it didn't really matter too much to me, but my son was fully into it, really going well. Yeah, um, we realised that he's pretty talented, so um, and we had a he did an Instagram thing and it was called the Lift In Kitchen. Okay. And um so we set up basically a squat rack and a bench in the kitchen dining room, yeah, and that was there for the whole of COVID. So he had a train. He squatted, I think he squatted 3 30 in the kitchen. Um and he was the bar's about inch and a half from the radiator. So knock over the cup of tea or something. Put the kettle on while you're in there, sort of thing. There is if you look on his Instagram, there's all videos and stuff of him deadlifted in the garden. Um and that was fun because obviously every rep in the garden, the bar got further and further away from you.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Yeah, but I'd imagine that that's yeah, um, that's working around the problem. That's pretty good. And he's he's doing well, isn't he?

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Yeah, yeah, amazing. Yeah, so he he's been um so when let's say four years ago, because he's just come home. So four years ago, he got a scholarship to an American university for powerlifting. Oh it's the first scholarship ever given to an international student of powerlifting in the world. What uni was that? It was Middle University in Nebraska. Oh, cool, and um so he went out there and he trained with the an 80-strong powerlifting team for four years for the last four years, absolutely loved it, and got a degree as well, which was it was like a movie because he was never going to get a degree if he stayed here. They but he didn't have an A level or anything. They basically said, Don't worry, we'll sort it all out. And they did, they've you know, yeah, he's done all that. So he's he came back in May, all finished. Um pretty recently then, yeah. Well, not recently now, obviously, back in the year, but yeah, this year. Yeah, so he came back in May, um, been nice, he's come back to the gym. Obviously, he's been back Christmas and summers and stuff in between anyway. But um, yeah, it's really good to have him back and let's try and get him as strong as he can be. He wants to squat 505 kilos, so which would be the biggest squat ever done in a drug tested federation. So that's impressive.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Well, hopefully he goes well. We'll put the video up somewhere of him doing some training.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Well, you can find his videos up there of him squatting 475 and a half, which he did in April this year. Wow, it's a pretty impressive video. So incredible.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

Well, yeah, viewers jump on that. Jump on that. Um, the final bit before we let you go, because I know it's a Friday night, we were Friday evening. Do you do you have any with your experience powerlifting and as a coach, if there's any physios working with powerlifters? Because you do get a very big spectrum of physio. You get people who are incredibly nerdy and want to go and do SNC, they do masters, and then you get good physios who are generalists and they don't necessarily do reps and sets and things. Have you got any I I didn't ask to you to prepare anything, so I'm just springing this on you. But any any suggestions or anything from a for physios treaty powerlifters if they had come on? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Be hands-on. Be hands-on, yeah. I think any any character I've ever spoken to, and myself included, yeah. I I really uh like it when you go to physio and they get in. You get stuck in. Yeah, they get stuck in. Right, they get the elbow out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I really do. I appreciate that. Yeah, when you feel like you've had something done. Fine.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

And that's getting into areas that you probably can't stretch as well. Yeah. Um, any lifting, I guess, yeah, it's probably too general to kind of um isolate that in a moment. Um, but I think that we've covered all the bases and uh thank you very much for your time. It's been amazing to hear about what you've been able to do and achieve, and and still pushing for that bench. And I hope is it Ray, your son? Yeah, maybe Ray goes well as well, and we'll keep an eye on that. Yeah, yeah. So, any any final comments from yourself?

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Or no, yeah, I think it's good to have enjoyed it. It's been great.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

No, honesty, it's been great that we've been able to get through all that and uh taking it, taking your time. So we'll finish there, but uh thanks again. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. All the best game forward.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Thank you so.