You’re Not Alone – Finding Safety, Hope and Help

Walking into a courthouse can feel like walking back into the worst day of your life. Recording on location at the Case Family Safety Center in Tulsa, we talk about what survivors actually need when they’re trying to get safe and why the “go here, then go there” system fails people who are already exhausted, afraid, and overwhelmed.

Heather Anne shares parts of her own history as a domestic violence survivor and why this topic can’t stay behind closed doors. Then we’re joined by Suzanne Stewart, CEO of the Family Safety Center, to break down how a true one-stop model works: protective orders and legal aid, advocates and navigators, danger assessments, safety planning, connections to housing and shelter, and trauma-informed support that meets people where they are. We also dig into the research around poly-victimization and layered trauma, including how chronic stress can show up as insomnia, hypervigilance, and long-term health impacts.

We spend time on a piece most people never consider: the environment of justice. Suzanne explains why traditional protective order dockets can be intimidating and why a safer, brighter, more secure courtroom design with separate entry and waiting areas can change whether survivors return for follow-up hearings. We also widen the lens beyond stereotypes, talking about coercive control, financial abuse, elder abuse, and why domestic violence crosses every zip code and income level.

If you’re in Tulsa County and need domestic violence resources, this conversation points to practical next steps and a place with “no wrong door.” Subscribe, share this with someone who might need it, and leave a review so more people can find help faster.

Transcript

Why This Conversation Matters

SPEAKER_02 0:00

One of the things that this facility is going to enable us to do is provide a lot more community outreach and training opportunities for people all across the board in these different skill sets.

SPEAKER_04 0:16

Your next favorite podcast pick starts now. Here's the Professor and Heather Anne.

Joe 0:25

Welcome to the Professor and Heather Anne. Although we don't have all the answers, we hope we can encourage and excite you. We're here sharing our lives to help you to make the most of the second half of your life.

Heather Anne 0:38

Today we have a very important topic. We have a very special guest, somebody that is very near and dear to me. I have openly discussed growing up in domestic violence and being a survivor of child abuse. And it was very important to me to bring this episode to our listeners. But I do want to say there are going to be some tough conversation, and some of our listeners, I just want to be aware that this could possibly have some triggering in it. But we're it's very important that we bring this topic and we talk about domestic violence. We talk about the things that victims and survivors can have places to go to.

A Survivor’s Childhood In Court

Joe 2:03

She is currently the CEO of Family Safety Center in Tulsa, which was opened in 2006 and just this month opened a brand new 65,000 square foot facility. And this provides, it's meant to be like a one-stop shop, provides a wide range of victim services, and we're going to hear about those. And so this includes things like obtaining emergency protective orders and legal support, resources for children who've been exposed to domestic violence, and so forth.

Heather Anne 2:39

So one of the things that we've talked about and we've openly talked about here, and the shock and awe that I had to share with you was my family history of just not growing up in domestic violence, just about my child abuse, that my mother had gone to prison, uh, had been found guilty of second-degree murder when my father came after my mother for one last time, and uh she survived and he did not. So my whole childhood was involved with court, um, with the police. When I was younger, we would call the police, um, but at that time in the 70s and 80s, there wasn't a lot that the police could do. So we talk, you know, I've shared a lot with, I always call um when the police would come, I always talk about how uh they would just walk my dad around the block because they'd take him out of the house and then they'd come back and he'd be calm, and they would sit there and say, Well, he promises not to do it again. Just most of my childhood, that was it. He promises he's never gonna do it again, but it happened more often than not. There was sometimes when the police came that um he'd start beating my mom again right after they left, or um he could start not, you know, hitting us because we're the ones that always called the police. We always had this um my dad's recliner. We always hid behind the recliner um when he's in his rage and he's beating her, and we are scared and crying and just begging them to come and help us. But laws were different. I'm happy to say that they're so much better than they are today. I still believe that there is a lot of room for improvement on how we help victims and help families that are very much like mine. But it was a lot that you had to deal with.

Joe 4:56

So, this all this was completely alien to me. Um, uh, you know, my my my my parents did not have a perfect relationship, but but nothing approaching uh what happened to you ever happened. Um and you know, now thinking about this as you're talking about it, it it's just kind of remarkable to me that you like have any confidence in the legal or judicial system at all, like like you didn't that you didn't become an anarchist revolutionary.

Heather Anne 5:23

Uh well I had to. Um, number one, when um we went to trial, we were very disappointed in the system. We thought for sure, um, we unfortunately learned about our parents from the 11 o'clock news in California. And we thought for sure he um had finally killed her. We had there was nothing else that ran through our mind. It was not, oh, we hope she's okay, you know, is he okay? It was automatically because they just announced that one was uh DOA and one had been arrested. So we just assumed, because this was what our whole life wasn't the first time we tried to kill her, multiple times, we're very well aware of this. So when we found out that actually he was the one that was dead, it was a relief to us. We were very like, okay, it's finally over. He no longer can terrorize us, he no longer can uh beat her, we get to go on with our life. But it wasn't that and it wasn't that way. We we thought for sure that, okay, well, they're gonna hear our story. He had already been arrested before, which was very unusual back in that time. There were records he had you know gone and been in the psych board for um a couple of times. So we thought for sure that we were finally going to get justice, and it did not happen that way. We were shot, um, but we still believed in the system. We still, I couldn't be angry at the system for failing us, but I was angry at him for putting us in this position. So we thought for sure that even though she was found guilty, that we would, she would eventually be able to get out on parole, we would uh be able to file for a new trial. We there was just a lot of different things that we thought for sure would happen during the process, but it still didn't.

Joe 7:34

It was just continued disappointment and disillusionment until she died in prison.

Heather Anne 7:39

Until she died in prison. And um, but I'm very proud that she took that. She was able to do a lot of things with that. She was in a documentary. Uh the women that were in that documentary went and testified at the state capitol in California to start one of the first domestic violence laws to help women that were convicted to be able to get out. Um, and now that law is passed here. Similar law has passed across the country in different states. Here in Oklahoma, it passed in 2024. Five. Four. Four. And so um so there's been progress. There's been progress. And today we are here to have one of my favorite people that I have met in my pursuit of sharing my family's story and trying to make a difference and bringing our story to the forefront to help victims, um, to help change laws, to um help families. And and one of my things is by helping the victims and families work through everything that we can stop the cycle. And I have been saying for years and years, by stopping the cycle and giving these families the things that they need, the resources that they need, that we can stop the cycle, and that's truly what's going to make a difference in domestic violence, and by talking about it. So wherever I am, whether people want to listen or not, I talk about it, I bring it up. I when if I am anywhere near a politician, then I will automatically talk to them about what their stance is and what they're doing to help with the laws and help with our victims of domestic violence. But what I really want to do now is uh Suzanne Stewart, the CEO of the Family Safety Center. She is a fifth-generation Oklahoman and 30 years of business background and 16 years, more than 16 years, and collaborative leader in domestic violence and family violence arena. Thank you

Meeting The Family Safety Center CEO

Heather Anne 10:05

for coming. Thank you for having me. I uh am number one, we are here on location at the Family Safety Center, and this building is spectacular. And um I didn't think I'd get emotional. But just knowing how many families and what a difference a place like this is gonna make is going to um be life-changing for so many families. So let's dive in. Um, let's say clear my tears. We met by chance, and how we even met is a story in itself. I was invited by a friend to go to an event that you were at, and it happened to be um, I think you were presenting a ward to a local police officer that helped pass a law about strangulation during domestic violence incidents. And um I almost didn't go. I almost didn't walk into that, it was at somebody's house. I didn't know anybody because my friend called me at the last minute and said, Oh, I'm not going to be able to make it, you should still go. I literally stood on the the sidewalk going, I'm not going. Why am I going to this? But I walked in and we found out that number one, you knew about my mother's documentary, and that you had actually met my sister um a couple years before at an event in California. California, the first family safety center. Um, and so that just kind of instantly connected us.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Right.

Heather Anne 11:57

And here we are, all these years later, in this magnificent building. So let's talk about why you even started down this path and how you got into being an advocate.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

And it's just kind of weird, you know. Um I'm of that generation where you really thought about as a female, you thought about what you were going to do, and in the in the 60s and the 50s and the 60s, you know, your options were secretary, teacher, wife, working in retail, unless you were really ambitious and you could, you know, blow the blow the doors off of anything that you wanted to try to do. And um, I had not had any experience of violence within my immediate family. I I learned as an adult or an older teen that I had had a great aunt who had been murdered by her boyfriend in the early 50s, like 54, 55, 56, something like that. And he had ultimately been convicted and spent his life in prison. My dad was law enforcement. He was a police officer with Tulsa Police Department for 30 years. And my mom worked in the oil business, and we had, you know, a typical growing up in the 50s ride your bike neighborhood life, and it was never something that was ever explored or talked about. I do remember as a young child, however, around the corner in the block, and this just came to me, um, there was a young boy and his mom and his dad, and apparently there was violence in the family, and she ended up shooting her husband, and the they went away. I mean, the boy and his mother went away. I never knew if she was charged, or I mean, or he just left. Didn't know. No, he died, but we never knew because you know, they were there one week, the next week they were gone. And my dad never talked about it. So um, you know, I had I'd had very little understanding of it in my college life. Um, I wanted to be a musician, which I was, and then I got into business and did that, and uh retired from my gig at the Tulsa Metro Chamber in 2009, and um that was a wonderful experience. I worked a lot with collaborations because that's what you did as a public-private partnership, and you relied on other people and their strengths and their gifts, and you you worked things together. You developed a community together. A lot of my background was in community development. And um I decided it wasn't time for me to just sit around and I started looking at options. And this position was open at the time, it was uh part of Domestic Violence Intervention Services, which was the founding organization along with the city of Tulsa. The Tulsa Family Safety Center was one of the first 15 family justice centers opened in the country through an initiative by President Bush in the early

Trauma Science And Poly-Victimization

SPEAKER_02 15:20

2000s. And we opened our doors in 2006, and so I went to work in 2010, and by 2012 it was obvious that we were going to have to change some things up in order to support the activities and the growth of this organization, so we formed our own 501c3. But in between the time that I came on and the time that that 2012 event happened, I had a really steep learning curve. Because in my previous job as senior vice president of the Tulsa Chamber for Visit Tulsa and the Sports Commission, we were selling Tulsa's the perfect place to be, raise a family, good homes, good schools, great place to visit, great place to spend money, have a good time, and then you can go back to your normal life. I'd served on a lot of boards, a lot of nonprofit boards, a lot of arts community boards. Um, I'd done a lot of things, but I did not know about the depth and the breadth of the issues and the hidden secrets, and the hidden secrets about families and individuals and violence in not only Tulsa but in the state of Oklahoma. I had no clue. So it was a very steep learning clerk, learning curve. And my first um job, really, in the job, was to learn as much as I can, very could very quickly. So hooked up with the um National Family Justice Center Alliance based in San Diego with Casey Gwynn and Gail Strack, who were the founders of this movement of the one-stop shop services, and um started learning as much as I could learn. And then the deeper I dove into the issues here in the community, the greater the need became obvious about some of the things that needed to happen, not just to give someone a protective order. I mean, anybody can get a protective order if you're feeling threatened, it's the other stuff that goes around it. You know, it's getting a feeling of safety, it's having a safety plan, it's having access to resources, having access to these other things that are going to help keep you safe, help you want to stay safe and feel protected. And even if you chose not to leave a relationship at the time that you come to seek help, there are ways that you know you can help keep yourself and any children or family members you have with you safe if you seek out help and we're able to advise you on how to do that.

Heather Anne 18:06

And that's very important because the statistics statistics show that it takes more than one time. Very rarely will the victim of domestic violence just leave a situation and never go back. There are multiple layers that go along with being in that situation, and it takes multiple times. So just being able to have a plan for maybe the next time. If I put myself further, do these certain things, then maybe the next time will be the time that I leave. Because on average, what's the average that it takes to be?

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Six or seven times is the is the average. Um it may they may not ever leave. I mean, I've I I know of cases where people have been in violent relationships for 25 to 30 years, you know, and they never left. Lots of reasons for that. There's lots of reasons. There's lots of reasons. There's children's, there's financial. Well, it's it's the devil you know versus the devil you don't know, and the uncertainty of that. And you know, and part of our part of our mission here at the Case Family Safety Center, quite frankly, is research. You know, we were bl uh very um lucky to be engaged with um the Office for Victims of Crime through the Department of Justice on a study and creating an assessment for what's called poly-victimization. And David Fink David Finkelhor was the guy who really came up with this, and it had to do with um multiple kinds of trauma that occurs to a single individual over their lifetime. And what do those multiple traumas have to do with the effects of their mental well-being, their physical well-being? It kind of goes back to the ACES, uh, the ACES test. Yes. That was first developed, oh gosh, almost 30 years now, I guess. Yeah, right? All the adverse things that happened to you in your child. When you're a child, but there are adverse things now that happen to you as an adult. Correct. Right? It's those 10 things plus other things. Community stress, community trauma. Um, not just having this as a child, but being homeless and adult. Maybe you experienced a parent's addiction as a child, but maybe you're you're suffering from an addiction now. Maybe you were engaged in a family that had some mental illness, but maybe some of that, I mean, maybe you have an issue that you're dealing with as well. Maybe it's depression. I mean, all kinds of things that that um when you stack them on top of one another, it's like one of those sandwiches that you know are layered and layered and layered and layered. And to take a bite of it, you have to open your mouth really, really, really wide. And that hurts. And so we were part of that research with four other communities, and we developed, we looked through every psychological tool and method you could think of to come up with an assessment that we could use to really look at how people were functioning. And what we learned, we identified 26 different types of trauma that could occur to you in your lifetime, and we identified 26 symptoms, we developed an assessment, and what we learned when we gave that to people, actually, we started during COVID, and we uh surveyed around 3,500 individuals at the time over a three year period, which is kind of a significant number of people. Uh, we learned that out of the people who came to see us, the average number of events that had occurred to them over their lifetime was 12 different types of traumatic events. From the time as a child until today and in the past year. And all of those things combined, when you do a little bit of psychoeducation with them on the effects of trauma, all of those things combined lead to different types of behaviors, lead to different types of effects like not being able to sleep, being in a constant state of alertness or arousal, being afraid. All of these things.

Heather Anne 22:31

And the sleep thing is a big thing. It's a big thing. I never realized I really had a problem with sleep until this guy came into my life. And when we first started dating, it's like I didn't want to go do anything. We would let's just stay home and I would fall asleep. I would I literally would just, if we sat down and started talking, I would fall asleep. And it took me several months, and I started doing some research and digging into that. It's because I have been on a state of alert. Because when I was a child, I never just got out of bed. It was listening to see what the house was going to tell me, what's going on. Is he already started for the day? Are they still continuing from the night? So it never dawned on me, and so many people don't realize that you've been on that alert for your whole entire life that it continues into your adult life.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

It does continue, it changes your brain. It changes your brain. Lots of studies have been done on children's brains that have been going through trauma. And, you know, it's that fight or flight mechanism that never goes away, constant arousal. But that means your lizard brain takes over as a kid, which is back here. And you're always thinking about what's going to happen next. Where do I need to go? How do I stay safe? And the adrenaline flows and the cortisol flows, and that affects brain development, right? So it changes how you think. And if that is, you can fix that if you get to it, and if you can treat it, and there are exercises and all kinds of things that you can do, therapies that you can do to work on that. And it's amazing how resilient brains are, you know, and all that kind of stuff. But if you don't identify that early enough, that stuff carries on and it carries over, and then it affects how you do other things. Um, we always say as a child, if intervention doesn't happen early enough and you're exposed to this or a victim of this, um, maybe once, maybe 10 times, you know, over your lifetime, there's a good chance, you know, you're going to be continue to be a victim or you're going to be an abuser unless some kind of intervention happens. So that's where the prevention-intervention piece comes in. The earlier the better to be able to control what goes on in a kid's brain so that they can function as a healthy adult during their growing up years and reaching that point.

unknown 25:10

Go ahead.

Joe 25:12

Um about about about this facility. And so sort of stepping back and thinking about like if you could like just what are some of the services and resources that victims of domestic violence need, and why is it important to have all of those under one roof?

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Right. And you know, when you talk about domestic violence, it's not just a husband and wife, correct.

Heather Anne 25:36

And I think we want to touch upon I want to touch upon that because also people think domestic violence, so they think that's just physical. And there's so many layers to domestic violence. I wanted to touch upon

What A One-Stop Center Provides

Heather Anne 25:50

that. So one of them is it's not just the physical, it's the emotional, the psychological, financial abuse, um how an abuser isolates their victim, coercive control. And so let's let's dive into that real quick.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Well, and and that's part of what this facility is designed to try to address. Because in a place like this, you have multiple agencies who put their professional staff here to perform those services and to provide that wrap-around resource. The other part of this is that if we don't have that service here, we'll find it for you somewhere in the community. There is no such thing as a wrong door. And this building has many doors. Lots of doors. And if one doesn't open, we'll find one that does. So, you know, um, I think the important thing about someplace like this is that knowing that many times violence in a relationship, whether it's a family member, it's a spouse, it's an ex, it's an ex-dating partner, current dating partner, maybe it's your neighbor, maybe it's a mother-son family relationship, maybe it's a stepdad and a stepdaughter. Um, there are all kinds of dynamics that go on with that that go above and beyond a physical assault. And um a lot of it has to do with um how we as a community identify those things, and that's part of the reason for this facility is because we have so many people here that have expertise in all these different areas that we can help identify that to help people become feel like they're safer and to get the resources they need. So we have um domestic violence intervention services and legal aid services here for attorneys, um attorney representation, guardianship, um, paternity, divorce, um, protective orders. I will say that the demand is so much greater for legal services than we could ever possibly imagine to provide, even with the number of people that we have here. And then we have advocates who assist with all kinds of things, danger assessments, where we figure out after a series of questions where you are in the relationship, what exactly is happening there? Um how dangerous a situation is this for you? Do you feel right now? Um, and then basing a safety plan based on the conversations that we have, an individualized plan with people to help keep them safe, whether they're ready to leave a relationship or that household or not. So lots of things going on with advocacy. Uh, we have a group of people that are called navigators that work with that are our staff that actually help you navigate that system. Yes, yeah, because it's a big system.

Heather Anne 28:58

It is huge. And and you and until you are in the middle of it, you don't realize how much uh how vast the system is, how the different directions and different housing, housing, affordable housing, safe housing, um, job creation.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

I mean, you know, being able to try to find a job resource if you've not ever worked on the job.

Heather Anne 29:21

One of the things we've talked about about the one of my passion is those life skills. Exactly. Even launching life skills. How do you go out and interview for a job? How do you, you know, once you get out of this situation, how do you provide for your children, you know, healthy food, and how do you cook that? And you know, there's lots of different things. Yeah. What really excites me about this amazing building is one of the things I did when we met was I came down to the other location, the one you guys just moved from. And number one, I would I didn't think about it much. You gave me the address, come tour our facility, and that was amazing to me. But I didn't realize that it was next to the court building, next to the sheriff's department, the sheriff's department. And when I pulled into the parking lot, I actually had like an anxiety attack. And and part of that was just everything that I had gone through, going to court when my mother was on trial. It just really I almost did not walk into the building. It made me stop. I had to sit in my car. It was a little scary for me. So it made me think, you know, what about the victims that are coming here needing help? How are they feeling? But that's not the case anymore. Now you it's a standalone building, um, it's in a great location in town off of Sheridan. And what was the importance of that? Because I know we had amazing conversations of when you were looking for location, what you were wanting this, how you were wanting this building to be designed. What was the importance of helping victims feel comfortable and safe walking through those doors?

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Right. You know, having the experience that we had in the basement of the of the police municipal courts building was an interesting experience because we were very lucky to have that space. Uh, Tulsa Police Department was very gracious to give it to us. We raised a million dollars to rehab the old property warehouse, a forensic lab, and the old holding cells in the original, what was originally the Tulsa Jail. Yes. And, you know, once a jail, it's always a jail. But you know, we made it look nice and we won some awards for adaptive reuse, which was really kind of fun when you think about it. But um, it was not ideal. We were uh location strapped, there was no place to expand to. Um, it was scary for individuals coming down, we knew that. Um, we tried to make up for that with the experience once they got inside the building. So, through a series of years of focus groups and community-wide conversations, we talked to not just the people who used our services, but people who didn't use our services to find out why. And those people came forward and told us why they wouldn't come down there.

Heather Anne 32:40

And that's why the Family Safety Center was originally came together with Casey Quinn, is that they he was finding he was helping domestic violence victims and was finding they're getting lost in the shuffle because they were having to go to 40, 20 different agencies just to get to help. And they he had found out that just after the first couple of having to go to this agency and that agency, that they finally just said, I'm done.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Yeah, the trauma, um the trauma of, and I'll use this because 72 percent of our of our clients are female, but you know, the trauma of a mom dragging a kid or two, because most of them had children, dragging a kid or two around trying to find a safe place to live, and not having transportation, and trying to find an attorney, and trying to get a protective order and go to court, and maybe trying to get some support from DHS or TANF, was a very complicated process. And there was not an awful lot of options that were available to people at the time that we started the organization in 2006. So having everything in one spot made all the difference because ostensibly you could come in and see anybody you needed to see, and if you needed to come back for a follow-up appointment or two, it was real easy to do because it was all right there. So, with this new facility that gives us the capacity, I've mentioned the attorneys and the and the advocates, and we've got law enforcement on site, detectives and victim witness advocates with Tulsa Police Department, and we have uh both the special victims unit and the domestic violence unit. So for sexual assaults or um other types of uh violence that occurs, we have those detectives on site. We have forensic medical help on site, we've got a great space for um documentation of injuries

Designing A Safer Court Experience

SPEAKER_02 34:45

and sexual assault exams so that it's done in a therapeutic, trauma-free, private environment that's really accessible 24-7 if the if uh people will use it. So, you know, the training facilities, the life skills piece, people in the community, our users told us we want a place that allows us to develop a sense of community. We want to feel safe to interact with people who've experienced what we have experienced.

Heather Anne 35:17

And one of one of my favorite places here is the courtroom. Um, what why was it important to bring that piece to into this building? I I personally know that it necessarily wasn't the system that let us down. I mean, that's part of it because there's just not enough laws to uh that even in today's world, we don't have enough laws to protect domestic violence victims and their families, and but I I came to realize that it was just also a lot of people just don't understand the dynamics of a family that is living in that trauma. And I just sometimes feel like not that my mother's trial could have been held in a courtroom like this, but maybe one day of having um you know somebody that is having to defend themselves for for uh fighting back for defending their life and their children's lives, having a courtroom in a situation that understands those dynamics. So when I came and was able to tour uh the facility and everything, just walking into I I know it sounds, you know, maybe somebody that hadn't grown up the way I had may not understand. He, Joe, may not understand that, but it was a sense of this is a safety place. This is a place that I feel like victims can come. Just the whole courtroom, the way it's set up, and even the windows in the courtroom, and to just it just gave me a sense of peace, like, oh, this is going to help a lot of victims, and it's going to, it's a safe place where they actually can feel safe.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Yeah, we did, we were asked by the district court to do an assessment of the protective order process from the time you make the 911 call until the time that you show up in court and you receive or not receive a protective order. What are the steps? Who are the people and the agencies you encounter on the way? What are the gaps, strengths, opportunities that you see? And we spent two years going over this. We had a practitioner group of about 20 individuals, we had attorneys, we had defense attorneys, we had family law attorneys, we had judges, we had court advocates, law enforcement, um, sheriff's department, um, I mean, a huge and clients. We had litigates from both sides, uh, plaintiffs and defendants, um, that gave us feedback over a period of two years talking about the whole process. We identified a couple of what we call rabbit holes that needed a deeper dive. Um, but one of them had to do with the atmosphere in the environment that surrounded the courtroom where the protective order docket was held for the show cause hearing. Um, in in Oklahoma, you've you receive the emergency protective order, it's good for two weeks, and then you show up for the first hearing, and um both parties have an opportunity to respond to the petition. And you can take attorneys with you, um, you can have supporting people with you, and you have an opportunity to address the judge, and the judge will decide at that point. Do we go forward or do we not go forward with it? Do we consolidate it into a family case or a criminal case? The courtroom in which it's had it was held is very small. Um there are no, I think to this day, there are no separate waiting places for litigants, so that you have You're standing like in the hallway. You're in the hallway with people running up and down and kids running up and down because there's no place for kids, but kids can't go on the court. Um, there's no room for supporters to attend with you or advocates with you in the courtroom. And the number of cases that go through during the day is somewhere between 100 and 125 per day of cases that are going through that courtroom it's a very uh intimidating and traumatic process for both sides because if you have an aggressive uh perpetrator, if you have an aggressive um defendant um who is triggered by pushback, and they're in an environment where there's lots of stress and lots of trauma going on, and they're um the person that they are threatening is in the same area, or they feel are being uh unjustly charged with abuse, then they tend to get a little bit more aggressive and more intimidating, and the the victim, the plaintiff, will back off and will sometimes completely try to dismiss it or will leave and not even address the issue because they're afraid of the ramifications from the other person.

Heather Anne 40:42

And that's what I was gonna ask is what are the statistics from the time of getting the emergency protection order that they actually show up to court, the victim will show up to court to extend that to make sure that it is properly put in place because they know that they're gonna show up and that they're going to see their abuser, they're there with them. So a lot of them will not show up. And and I have known several women, I have a very good friend. She did not show up for that because she did not want to be put into that position.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

Right. And you know, there are a lot of reasons why people don't follow up with the second one. Uh, one of them may be, oh, that took care of the situation, the violence has ended, I'm okay now. So I don't need to carry on with this. Another reason is exactly that I don't want to be intimidated by this person. I got what I needed, uh, it's quiet right now, I'm just gonna leave it alone until and unless it happens again. And then there are people in in in Oklahoma law, um as long as the plaintiff continues to show, even if the defendant has not been served with a protective order petition, you know, the the final order, um, and a lot of a lot of um the defendants will go into hiding. I mean, you know, and you can't find them to serve. You can't find them. So as long as the plaintiff keeps showing up in court every two weeks, then the judge will carry over that emergency protective order. But the first time that that person decides not to go back, because the petition has not been served, then the petition is immediately dropped.

Heather Anne 42:24

So that's a very important step, is even though they can't get served, which we know is just another ploy, just part of the abuse, um, as long as they keep showing up, and they're gonna keep showing up if they have a place that they feel safe.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Exactly. And if they don't, and if they feel they're not getting anything out of it, I mean, yeah, they may still be safe, but it's not being resolved. Correct. And in particular, if they're kids, it's very problematic. So um when we designed the courthouse, we took all of that, the courtroom, we took all of that into consideration, knowing that there was no place to expand in the existing courthouse. Parking is dismal, um, is it expensive? You had to go out, plug the meter every two hours, or you got a parking ticket, even if you were in court. I mean, it was just crazy. And just the feeling just you could be parking right next to your exactly offender. You could be correct, right there.

Heather Anne 43:24

And just, you know, a lot of people don't realize that once you're down around the courthouse, the the the jail, all of that, it's just a different feel. It's a different feel, and for a victim, it it's very intimidating, it's very um uncomfortable. You would think that okay, you're walking, there's police around, there's sheriffs around, but you don't feel protective. You it you've just I don't know how to explain it. You just even I wasn't in this situation, I was just going to to visit the last. The previous facility, and I just felt just like I don't want to be here. Right. I don't feel safe here all of a sudden. Which I was perfectly safe. There was nothing, so I can't even imagine how big those were.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

What we've done with this particular space, we took all of that into consideration. So we have a court entry that's that's for um uh defendants and attorneys and general public and all that, and victims can come through the family safety center. They have a door to enter. There's a separate waiting for plaintiffs and defendants, and they have separate doors into the court. We've got barriers that are built between the litigant tables in front of the judge so that when you're sitting down, you have to stand up to look over the barrier to intimidate your person. Um so I mean, I think from that perspective, and it's a light environment. We raise the windows, we have clare story windows instead of floor-to-ceiling windows or no windows. Um, floor to ceiling can be problematic if you're fronting the street and you get somebody angry in a car. You know, sometimes they can drive a car through a glass window. That is true, no problem. Um, we have had defendants who rammed their heads through the walls in that courtroom during the hearing, uh, which was really kind of strange, but they did. Um, so you know, we wanted to make sure that it was an environment that would be as stressless for everybody involved, including the judicial staff, um, yet as secure as possible, with the least amount of intimidation that could be um incorporated upon another person by anybody else in the in the court hearing room. So, and and the walls are light, the the um furnishings are light, it's not a dark environment. It's it's judicial looking. Yes, it is. It looks like a courtroom. It looks like a courtroom, but it's not a dark dungeon punishing place. It's not a place of punishment, it's a place for justice to happen.

Heather Anne 46:16

Yes, and most courtrooms are they're older courtrooms, they have a heavy paneling, they all almost look the same. A lot of them don't have a lot of light. Um, so they're very intimidating.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

But uh and I think the great thing here, we don't have a judge assigned to us yet. We're hoping that the administrative order of the courts will come visit and we'll be able to have a judge on site, but um, the presiding judge has said he'd be happy to work with us on a virtual court. And we designed the courtroom with huge big monitors. So there are three of those in the courtroom that can be used once we sit down and talk about what that looks like. So, you know, I think it's going to be used relatively quickly anyway, and um hopefully we'll be able to prove that it really is the safe environment, the more conducive environment for real justice to happen between two people who are trying to sort through things.

Heather Anne 47:17

And it's a very inviting building, the whole building,

Abuse Beyond Bruises And Zip Codes

Heather Anne 47:20

not just the courtroom, but the whole building's very inviting. It's very light. It's light. It's light. And so many people that are gonna that are walking through these doors have been in a dark place for a long time. There's different kinds of abuse. We all know that there's, you know, domestic violence, the physical, the the emotional. I talked, you know, briefly mentioned the um financial, that a very is a very big thing. I personally had a friend where uh the courts allowed him to financially bankrupt them, and he was allowed to go and start a whole new business. And the these are things that the average person who hasn't experienced them don't realize that this is all part of it. We have elder abuses on the rise, um since um COVID, child abuse is back on the rise. So there's so many different issues that you have to do to help a victim that walks through these doors. So what are some more of the resources? We talked about the courtroom, we talked, but what are some of the other resources that they can have here once they walk through the door? Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

We could connect them with housing issue, you know, housing, permanent more permanent housing. Uh, we do have some funds through the city of Tulsa. Unfortunately, it's just for City of Tulsa people since it comes through the city, but it's um ESG funds that allow us to provide safe housing and maybe rental rental um deposits, utility deposits, etc., for people leaving violent relationships. The only caveat to that is that it's really HUD-driven economic levels, so that you have to maintain a certain um level of income in order to be able to qualify to qualify for that, and you have to have a job in order to qualify it. So but we are able to connect with housing, housing, safe housing and shelter. Um, I think the physical, the physical piece of it, while is it seems to be the most awful part because you see you see it visually, the psychological effects of it, uh, the emotional effects of it, everybody, you know, now is a it's an interesting time since the Me Too movement for the sexual assault and the and the coercion piece that has really come forward. And and now the whole narcissistic control piece, the passive-aggressive, uh, coercive control that can happen in a relationship. Isolation, isolating you from your friends and family, ultimately taking control of finances, ultimately setting rules and regulations that the partner has to follow in order to stay in the relationship. Um, with the elderly in particular, we're seeing abuse by family members that's financial abuse. And of course, you know, that involves sometimes physical abuse as well, um, the taking of medications and prescriptions and selling them or using them themselves, um, uh uh taking away Medicare checks, um, those kinds of things, um, raiding estates. Um, I saw recently that a couple were um arrested for defrauding their nine-year-old mother.

Heather Anne 51:03

Their nine-year-old mother. They had already taken like a quarter of a million dollars from her.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

So, I mean, you know, that's another piece of it because part of the and then and then something that people don't even think about a lot of times is that you will have, we've had cases of really elderly parents. I'm talking 94 years old, who are caring for a 72-year-old child with Alzheimer's.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

Oh my.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

Right? And and you know, with certain cases of Alzheimer's, there is some degree of violence that can happen that's medically related to that. And we had a lady who came in, the lady who came in was just beaten horribly by her 72-year-old son, but she didn't want him to go to jail. She couldn't leave him because he was not able to take care of himself, but he had he had struck out at her. And at that point, we had to find her someplace safe to go. And it's very complicated with older people to find them a place to go.

Heather Anne 52:08

And that's another thing, real quick, is that a lot of people have this misconception, and and it's been around for quite a long time. Domestic violence in all forms, there's no economic. No, there's nothing. You can be, you know, have a woman that's a dean of a college and she runs a college, but she has no control. She's being victimized at home. She can't, you know, she has to ask for can I go get some gas? Because she has no control over the finances, even though she could be making $200,000 a year herself. It it's not a low economical families problem. It's all of our problems, it's all of our problems. It's happening in homes everywhere. It does not, it could be it's happening in Beverly Hills and it's happening in Tulsa.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

Yeah, you know, and the thing that we know, because we track all the zip codes of everybody that comes in here, we serve all of Tulsa County, is that it is it's everywhere. It's everywhere, it's every economic level, it's every gender, it's every race, it's every employment status, it's homeless people, it's millionaires, um, it's people in between. And it is not a respecter of how much money you have. A lot of times the difference in some of these cases where a person may be able to get out of the relationship easier is because they have the money to be able to hire an attorney and they can get themselves out through divorce and some kind of settlement. They're able to handle it legally themselves. But there are so many people that don't have the financial capacity for that, and there are so many people, and they don't have the ability to do it, even if they do have the financial capacity for it. Correct. So, you know, having resources to be able to help those people figure out either how to do it themselves or being able to consult with an attorney who can represent them through some of this is very important. One of the things that this facility is going to enable us to do is provide a lot more community outreach and training opportunities for people all across the board in these different skill sets that you need to be able to live on your own when you do make those changes, right? So as simple as learning how to balance a checkbook and how what a bank is for, you know, how to heal how to really manage a credit card if you have one. Um one of the things that we learned in working with with some of our kids, we have a program called Camp Hope America.

Heather Anne 55:03

Yes, which is we've had Karen, we've we have recorded an episode with Karen. I'm excited for that. Yeah. Come on. Camp Hope is a I love it. I'm very watching the program.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

And these are kids that have that have experienced violence and trauma in their lives. And we've been doing this for 10 years now. And again, another program out of California with Casey Gannett Gwynn and Gail Strach and the Camp Hope America program. And Chan Hellman, Dr. Chan Hellman, our Tulsa Hope Guru, here who has been engaged with that and helping us measure hope and develop hope in these kids. Um but I mean, you know, there's all of this stuff that they told us during COVID actually, that um, you know, we we don't necessarily know how to use a microwave or how to cook something. So, because it's fast food, hey, you know, fast food time. And um so even having cooking classes where somebody learns how to use a microwave or a um an electric burner, you know, a tabletop burner to make a healthy meal is something that I think is really important sometimes for people who are in these relationships who may not have had to cook before. Correct.

Heather Anne 56:18

Well, even just children. Just children. Because how we're going to make a difference is stopping that generational. Exactly. I was able to do that, my sisters were able to do that with our children. So that's even another component that is available here at the Case Family

How To Get Help And Support

Heather Anne 56:35

Safety Center. How does somebody reach out? How do they contact to come into the Phyllis facility? Can they just walk in? Do they have to call?

SPEAKER_02 56:46

Do they have to make it a walk-in door? We're open eight to six five days a week. And um it's an open-door policy, no appointments. If you're going to get a protective order, we'd like to have you here as early as possible. Um, I will tell you one of the things that's really good about this facility is because we have areas that are so private and we can we can really have people focus on doing the work that they need to do with our advocates and whoever they're meeting with here to get their resources, that we've been able to cut our service time down from about three and a half hours per person to an hour and a half per person, which means it's more palatable for people to come in and seek help because they don't have to spend as long here as they did in the old location.

Heather Anne 57:32

And one of the things we've talked about is collaboration. There's multiple um resources here, multiple nonprofits, different company, you know, uh organizations coming together. How can the community support the Case Families Safety Center?

SPEAKER_02 57:50

Well, of course, we're always looking for funding. Um, like everybody else, we're a nonprofit, you know, that does these services, and we're providing a beautiful building, and and all of the contents of it primarily belong to us, and we're we offer that to our agency partners with no fees. We don't ask them to pay rent or assist with utilities or anything like that. So everything we do is through funding, fundraising, either philanthropic and individual gifts or through state and federal grants. So we're a very robust, multi-funded organization. But if you want to donate, you can donate dollars or you can donate stuff. Perfect. So clothing, um, adult clothing, shoes, socks, slip-ons, children's items, formula, diapers, baby wipes, um, changing sheets, crib sheets, those kinds of things, kids' clothes, kids' coats, all of that stuff can be used here. Snacks, hygiene products, um, little little fruit drinks for kids. Well, instead of oatmeal, it all works.

Heather Anne 59:02

As you can tell, we this is a a very passionate topic for both of us. There, we can go on and on and on, and um we're probably just gonna have to have you on again another time because there's so much more that we can even be discussing and sharing about this center. But it was I am honored that you were able to come on our show and have us record here in um this amazing building.

SPEAKER_02 59:31

Well, we sure appreciate you guys coming here. I mean, this is this is we we don't need to be a well-kept secret anymore. There's a great big purple sign out front. It says Case Family Safety Center. So you know exactly where you're going and you know you're here when you get here.

Heather Anne 59:47

And again, I truly feel that how we're going to make a difference uh when it comes to the fight against domestic violence is we have to talk about it, bring it out from behind closed doors to take away the uh victims feeling um well take away from the victims feeling um embarrassed.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:09

Exactly. This is a facility where we honor the people who are coming in here. We want them to feel valued, we want them to feel worthy. And I the other side of that fence that's another conversation for another day, is the accountability side of this. So on one side, you're talking about earlier intervention, and on the other side, you're talking about higher accountability for offenders and how do we get there.

Heather Anne 1:00:38

Because we have to address that. It's not it, it it is the whole picture that we need to address.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:44

It's not all it's not the victim's choice as to what the can't what happens to the offender, right? Correct. That is a system's issue with charging and investigation and all that kind of stuff. But we shouldn't make those survivors feel responsible for how we hold the offender accountable. And so for the system to hold the offender accountable, for us to put things in place so that people understand what they've done, understand the harm that it's caused, understand that there's a price to be paid for it that will be paid quickly, is gonna help with recidivism, and it's gonna help with accountability and hopefully stop further violence.

Heather Anne 1:01:34

How we're gonna do that is by talking about it. Exactly. And I appreciate you coming on um done today.

Joe 1:01:42

Yes, Suzanne. We deeply appreciate you um sharing with us the this amazing work you've been doing. Thank you.

Heather Anne 1:01:51

It takes a lot of us to do it. It does, it does. It it the true meaning it takes a village is is proof here in this building. Um, we would like to um thank you for coming on. Um, if you would like to uh please subscribe and support our podcast. We have many more exciting discussions and episodes coming up, including amazing guests. Um if you have a topic or an idea or would want to be a sponsor of our podcast, please message us on Facebook.

Joe 1:02:28

So join us here, tweet my friends, and turning in a smile from lessons learned and missing the model here on the professor and heather and listening to the professor and heather and um