Getting (Very) Real about AI

This week on Let’s Get Real, Lisa and Ed dedicate an entire episode to the topic on everyone’s minds right now: AI. How is AI going to affect the fundraising sector? Should we be embracing this new technology fully? Or are there aspects we should be wary of? If you’ve been looking for a deep dive into AI and fundraising, you won’t want to miss this.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hello and welcome to Let's Get Real Perspectives on Canadian fundraising. I'm Lisa McDonald, the editor of Hillborne Charity e News, here with Ed Sluga of PG Growth. And things are a little different today, Ed.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

We have just us today, yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

It's just us, no, no third person in all the conversation. But you know what? This is gonna be kind of fun. I I like us just having a chat.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Yeah, you know, I I think the thing about it too is uh obviously you and I are uh this when we're recording this, we're is the week of the Canadian Association of Gift Planners. We're going to both be there. It's gonna be great to see you in person. That uh happens two or three times a year. Normally we're connecting in this way. Um, yeah, and and it's a busy time, right? We all know that it's such a busy time in our business. I'm sure I don't know, is it harder to get folks to contribute to charity e News at this time of the year? I always think of March, April, May as just so crazy. Um, how how how is it for you on the editorial side as you're doing all of that work?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

That's a good question. You know, I think people around this time of year are in a rhythm. You know, it is busy, um, but they're they're on it, they're working. And so as long as communication is open and flowing between myself and um all of our different contributors and thought leaders who write for charity eNews, what I find is that we just need a bit of a longer tail in the planning. So um I'm not trying to turn articles around from people in you know a week or two. It's like we're planning on a six-week horizon, um, gives you know a lot of time to prepare. And that seems to work well for both them and I. But definitely um, you know, it there is a cycle, there is a pace to it all. I it's more difficult generally around summertime, actually, because everyone just slows down and and is trying to reduce workload.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Yeah, and you know, just to stick on that for for a minute. I mean, one of the things that I'm finding, you know, uh, and and I'm I'm sure everyone is finding this is no great revelation, it's not something I'm bringing to the table. I'm sure you're seeing it too, is you're getting people with more openness to providing thoughts, providing opinion, providing insight, uh, just because it's a thing right now. Uh, I'm not saying people are trying to be influencers or trying to do that, but you know, what's modeled out there is if you have a thought about a particular issue in the world that you reside in or work within, you're happy to provide a little bit of insight. And so I do know you you're getting people I would suggest from all over the country, from from all various kind of backgrounds, all over. I is it, you know, just I'm curious more than anything else. Is it easier to have that diverse voice appear from almost anywhere, given the nature of the way things work nowadays?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

I think so. I I would actually say yes. And and I mean, I do try to invite uh people to contribute to the conversation at Charity e News from different experiences and frameworks and points of view, um, people who are new to the profession, people who are um definitely leadership in the profession. And because I think there is something to share from everyone, you know, within those experiences. Um, I do like a uh a geographic kind of representation because sometimes what's happening in the West is different than what charities are dealing with in the East, and then you know, the big centers. So I I like balance there. Um so it's it's interesting, but I I think on the whole, people are very uh interested in engaging in conversations. And the only blocker may be their comfort level with writing, for example, because not everyone loves to write. But there again, Ed, you know, there are things like AI and other tools coming more and more to the fore that are helping people who maybe aren't as comfortable with getting that first draft out to figure out a way to get their ideas um in some kind of form for others to to kind of take in and share.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah, and and I think um, you know, obviously you said we're gonna approach this a little bit differently today. So I'm gonna take a moment to set it up because I'm the one who's driving this forward. But um, you know, love to have your your thoughts along the way because I know how much work you've done with charity e News uh on on the whole notion of AI. And um, so you've got lots of thoughts about it, you've done a lot of reading about it, you've engaged a lot of those diverse voices from the sector around AI and and what's it gonna mean for us? And this popped up because of this, the CAGP that's coming up. Because what I do think about this, and you've so you know, sorry, before I dive into that, what I'd like to do is kind of go over AI itself and how this is gonna, from my point of view, but also, you know, from your point of view, how it's going to actually be a positive for charities if we approach it correctly. Um and uh, you know, I'll give some logic around that, but love to hear hear your thought process around that. So just to to give you a sense of of where I'm coming from, it is is prompted by the CAGP. And I'll just give you uh one of those kind of Ed's sort of three minutes on some theory here, and which is yeah, I mean, fundraising is done in lots of different ways, you know. And there's one that's considered to be that sort of mass marketing fundraising. We know what that is, you know, events across the country or even in your local community, it's a mass marketing. Anybody can come, anybody is is engaged, uh, direct mail, digital, social, those sorts of things, these mass activities. But there's also that fundraising activity, like direct person-to-person contact. And I always think that the CAGP, or when I got involved with the CAGP, it was the place that people kind of moved toward. You know, there was uh this kind of almost you know, uh linear notion of what the journey of your career would be. You got in, uh, and you know, a good example of this is uh um I recently went to the the funeral of Ken Mayhew, someone we've mentioned here a number of times. And there was a retelling in in the service honoring Ken about his career. And where did he start? He started at the MS Society Society, sorry, jump rope for heart, which is like mass, you know, out there, big event across the country, that sort of thing. Uh and his last position, he was one of the most important uh hospital CEO fundraisers in in the greater Toronto area, raising $10 million gifts plus, you know, personal one-on-one. I always thought of a career was kind of like that. You got in early, you did this kind of mass marketing, and slowly, if you stuck with fundraising, after 30 plus years, you'd end up doing one-on-one fundraising, and plan giving is about that, right? So it made me think about AI. So, um, and what's that gonna mean for fundraising? So I wanted to talk a little bit about that, but put it in the context of what likely will happen in other areas of AI, um, uh, or how uh AI will affect other areas. And and you said something which was really interesting. You called it a tool, right? And you probably are seeing uh that tool being used in some of the work that you're seeing. It's not someone's doesn't have the opinion, or that they don't have the logic behind their opinion, and examples of what's feeding the logic behind their opinion, is that they might be utilizing AI to bring their thoughts together, right? Now, uh, you know, one way or the other. And AI is going to help uh lots of fundraisers as a tool. For example, proposal writing is going to become faster, right? We know that, and we accept that. We really do accept that. Um, you know, and that's really a practical way of doing that, right? Of segmenting, being able to find those donors who are plan-giving prospects. How we're gonna be able to do that, that'll happen. Um, and you know, uh engagement and and and management of of data over overall, a tool will be it'll be really a wonderful tool for that, and I would suggest that that's going to be the same thing in the for-profit sector as well, right? But I do think in the for-profit sector, um, that there'll likely be an impetus to do a little bit more, and one of the key elements of, and we've talked about the charitable world, many of these podcasts, but also just between the two of us, right? Uh, or in in larger group settings, what's it mean to be a charity? You know, what's your mission in the world? And how do you conduct yourself? So we'll just put that aside. When you're a for-profit organization, you've got one mission, which is to make a profit. The bigger the profit, the better. And I do think that there will be a reflex on the for in the for-profit sector to make AI more than a tool, it's going to be a replacement for folks. Where I and I think there's a fear there. And I do think that we're seeing that fear um in the not-for-profit sector or the charitable sector as well. And I know that I won't turn it over to you. I know that you've seen that in some of the writing that has come into um into charity e news, that there is an acknowledgement this could be a strong tool, but there's also a feeling that this could disrupt the way charities normally interact with donors. Um, you know, and and you've seen that over the over the time last few few years, I think more more the last few months. And so that's something you were seeing as well. Am I right to say that?

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Um I may have let lost the thread a little bit there, Ed. Um but about disruption, um, and the fear around you know being replaced. Uh I think AI, I think AI has definitely fostered a lot of fear, and it's and it's across uh sectors.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

But tell me about the fear, and that's really what I was after, and maybe I did it roundabout way, but tell me about the fear that you're seeing in in that writing and and and talking to folks.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Yeah, I think at the bottom line, it's fear of people losing their jobs. You know, I think that's the number one fear is that whole idea of uh being replaced and that technology is taking the the human out of the process. And I think certainly there are instances where that will happen, things will become automated, it can be done faster through the processing of artificial intelligence than you know, hiring four guys to program it out, for example, like computer programming, um, things like that. But um I think if we get back to kind of what uh the is at the heart of fundraising and philanthropy, and it's about building relationships, you know. And I think that if when we have those kind of conversations, that AI does not replace relationship building, um, they are not going to connect with donors in a way that will uh make them feel moved to give or move to create a legacy, you know, that it really it's going to be about um, I, you know, I feel like the framing for the nonprofit sector around AI really has to look at the fact that we've been resource-strapped for so long and we're always kind of behind the A-ball, never enough staff, never enough money, never enough of whatever to do what it is we're trying to do because all the money is going to the delivery of the philanthropic service. I think when people kind of root down into that, then they can start to look at AI as more about building capacity in the instance of what we're trying to do. And I'm not I'm not being naive. I know that AI is definitely uh a disruptor to the way things have been done for a long time. And it's happened before, but I think not to this extent. And I think a lot of people still don't understand what that's going to look like. But in the here and now, I think that um people need to get past that initial fear of change and disruption and fear of you know losing our jobs and really double down on how to make it work, you know, for the betterment of what we're trying to accomplish. It can it can help us hit our goals and be more effective.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Yeah, and and I think you're you're touching on uh you know, again, in the context of the CGP conference, in the context of that personal touch, what I'm trying to get at here and why I think charities have to position themselves now to do exactly what you're talking about. First off, don't be fearful, right? If it's a tool to make your job uh easier to do and more efficient to do, then let's not be let's not be fearful of it.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Yeah, and I'm gonna jump in here on that point just to add to it, because when when people feel like they have too much work on their plate to begin with, um, there is a built-in resistance to adding anything new. Combine that with adding a new technology that maybe you're not comfortable with or have really any understanding of how to make it work, then the barrier becomes even higher and bigger, you know. And a lot of the uh the people who are writing in this space for people working in the sector, you know, are really advocating small steps to begin. Like you don't have to start with the whole suite of understanding about what AI can do. You don't have to bring it in and take care of all of your data management for you if that just feels like too big. There are ways, there are entry points to start incorporating it and to empower your staff to start incorporating it that leadership can, you know, lead and advocate for and get past their own kind of maybe feelings of not knowing enough about it or lack of knowledge and and things like that. So fear is tied into so many elements about how the culture that you're creating and and what what are you advocating for within your organization in terms of of bringing it in? So fear is part one, and then it it if you don't overcome it, it's it's all these other things, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yeah, I I agree. And I think and I that's why I think that there's a moment for for charities to understand, and this is a leadership decision, uh, where there's going to be a push, I believe, to utilize those tools, uh, even in the face of that fear that you're talking about, right? Pushing those tools uh to be used to a greater degree in in the great service of efficiency and cost cutting. I think that there's actually a s a different decision to be made.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

And well, let's let's be clear, we're already behind the A-ball, right? Like in the for-profit sector, they have been using AI for probably a decade in in in smaller ways, bigger organizations. Like we're already behind, as we generally always are. You know, we're still wrapping our heads around basic digital kind of fluency, you know, and and cross-channel marketing and all these kind of things. And people are saying, and now you want us to use AI, like how you know, it's making people's heads pop off their necks, but we can't we can't sit this one out, folks.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Like, no, we can't, and and again, but I think it it putting it in the context of it's a tool, yeah, and and that's okay, right? Yeah, I'll tell you a story about this, and there's two two things that popped up last week that made me want to talk about this, and again, also because the CAGP is coming down the pipe for us. Um, and one was the idea of AI, and uh obviously in in the world of creativity, and that's what a lot of fundraisers are. They're creative people, you know that they're entrepreneurial. And you know, many years ago in a different life when I was working in in publications, I was actually uh one of the few people in the region I was working in at the time that understood computer pagination and understood some of the uh the the new uh platforms uh on Macintosh computers, right? To lay out a newspaper, for example. And also I was free of full-time employment. I was working, but I was able to do a contract on the side, which was not possible for lots of folks. So I was hired to come in to use AI, which is essentially what it is machine learning, right? To bring in, and it was going to be a tool, and they were going to be able to lay out this daily newspaper and replace 20 people who were doing it every night with three. Right. Okay, I get that. There's a fear there, and that's our fear. Um, but I wanted to say that that's in the context of well, that was in the context of a dying media print print journalism, which we know. I mean, when I started working with uh Jim Hilborn, who started charity e News, um, he was doing Canadian fundraiser as a newsletter, mailed it out every week.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

I remember working it was like what the mimeograph isn't isn't that what it was called way back? You got a mimeograph, the copies.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

There were a thousand monks sitting at tables writing it out and logging it. But uh, you know, mailing it out. So there were changes, obviously, changes, and that meant the loss of of uh careers for some people for livelihoods, and there's no doubt about it. But it was a tool that was coming in at no point, and I think journalists have held out this, right, to the point where there are journalists everywhere. We can call ourselves, you are definitely a journalist, you're an editor and journalist. I am not, I'm at best a commentator on occasion around these things, but we've actually had the democratization of journalism with the tool that's happened, right? In that area, there were two daily newspapers talking about occurrences in that community. Uh, there's probably thousands of people now doing the same thing on a daily basis. Is it good? Is it lots of noise? Of course it is. Um, but it became a tool. Um, and in fact, um there are lots of people who look at computing, similar, you know, just the whole notion of computing as that great existential threat that came up. But we all realize this is a tool. We still need people to do our work. I want to put it in the context now of that for-profit, yeah, we're gonna replace three people or replace 20 people with three people into into fundraising, where I think there's a moment, yes, there will be some rationalization because this tool will be powerful. But I do think charities can say, but that relationship that you're talking about, the relationship between the donor and the organization, it becomes even more powerful and more. Or an asset for the charity because those donors will see all around them government agencies, for-profit agencies, driving them toward AI interactions. And here comes the charity saying, no, come on in, let's have coffee, let's chat, I'll give you a call. Maybe I'll write you a letter. And if we stick to our guns and say to ourselves in the charitable side of this, that the important thing is having people who are able to talk to other people directly, on the phone, again, in person, through engagement, that looks real and is indeed real. Now, if you're a large language model proponent, you're going to say, well, it'll get there soon that it does seem that way. It'll never really feel that way. Um if we kind of lean into it. And I do think that that will be in the short and medium term, where charities can differentiate themselves. Where, you know, you know, if you put your gift into this organization, this for-profit organization, yes, you get a tax receipt. But what then happens afterwards? What kind of interaction are you going to have? You know, um, you can you can make a charitable donation as a DAF for as little as $10,000. Will that be the last time you talk to someone directly about that $10,000 gift? If you're at a charity and you make a $10,000 donation, people are going to be calling you all the time. Maybe they don't even want that, but you're going to have that. And that will be the bespoke, if I can use that tailoring term, nature of how fundraising can differentiate itself. And the other conversation I had was with a couple that are, I think, if I can, they represent the notion that uh Malcolm Burroughs talked about at the CAGP in Vancouver when he did his plenary session. Now, for those who don't know, Malcolm Burroughs is the um the head of the Scotia Private Giving Foundation, often called the Aqueduct Foundation. And what he talked about, and these this couple represents that, people who kind of came into the work world, baby boomers primarily, so 65, 60, 65 plus, started in the work world and were very fortunate to become wealthy from the work, had come really from nowhere and created a bunch of wealth. This couple, uh, a lot of them don't have actually a long history of philanthropy, don't give a lot, and don't feel connected with any sort of charity. And so they come to a meeting with their investment advisors and they say, I'd like to give to charity, or it might be good advantageous giving uh from a tax perspective, and uh they don't have a charity of choice. Uh, so that's the moment. But you know what I found with this couple was that they want a charity of choice, they want to engage, they don't want to just go to their bank and get a tax receipt, they want to make a difference in the world, and I think there are lots and lots of those folks. And what they're hearing from financial institutions is transaction. Oh, you want to make a gift? Oh, just give it to this and you'll get a transaction. Great, and you get a big tax receipt, and they focus on the tax receipt as opposed to focusing on the impact. And I do think there's a moment here where individuals talking to other individuals about impact will be the key to charities, not winning the day by any chance, but definitely continuing to be super relevant. But it takes in the commitment to people. And I'm not sure if you're seeing that part of it when you're talking to leaders who are engaged in writing articles for charity e news when you're talking to them. The commitment to people will be the commitment, I think, that will separate charities from the other folks in this space.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yeah, and it's it's hard, you know, because um, as a sector, we've been working so hard to not be perceived as like less than against what's happening in the government and in the public and private sector. You know, there's always been this feeling that we are needing to professionalize more and needing to keep step with everything that's being done alongside. And I feel we tend to kind of hide our differences rather than lean into them because our differences seem to make us, you know, like the country bumpkin of what's going on with these financial transactions and in the world. Uh and the and the way we want to do it, the tools we want to use, we want to use the phone. Well, who uses the phone anymore? Nobody makes calls, you know, people text. So we're supposed to learn how to do digital and communicate those ways. Like who goes and sits and has a tea or coffee? Who has time for that? You know, they feel old-fashioned and it feels out of step. Um, but I think that there is something to what you're saying about a commitment to people. At the end of the day, people want connection, people want community, people want conversations, people don't want to be lonely, you know, they don't want to be just in their house um scrolling, you know, they want a neighbor to come and, you know, borrow a cup of sugar. They want to go out and walk around the neighborhood with a hundred other people in support of a community housing, you know, charity. People want to engage in the world around them. And there's just a real push-pull happening right now with keeping in step with these technological developments that are happening at such a rapid pace. You know, everyone's head is spinning. It's not just the nonprofit sector. Those who I know who are part of the private sector are also wondering how to keep step and are amazed at what's happening. Like it's it's really astounding. Um, but it's a lot. So um, you know, I think it's hard sometimes for our leaders in the sector to take the stance that yes, we are first committed to people, you know, beyond having all of the best technology in our office or having all the capabilities. It's not an easy announcement to make, even though, in one sense, it makes a lot of sense, you know, it it makes sense to to align yourself that way because of the nature of philanthropy and what it's about. So I I do there's a struggle. People people want to be taken seriously, they want to have those conversations and be able to say that we have all the savvy around the business side of things, but we're people, people, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Yeah, and I you know, and uh, you know, I think you're hitting you know right on on the right marks here because I think people want meaning, yeah, meaning in their lives, and this is part of developing that meaning. And look, Scott Galloway and his you know well-known American economist and also writer, author, podcaster, uh had just put a book out about boys and and young men in the United States. And you and I uh Lisa have kids about the same age, and we know how they've been affected by social media, and he's called out this fact that these young men and young and boys in the US are are you know suffering right now, and he even brings it down it's they're suffering from a meaningful existence, essentially. Um, and it's because people rushed, as you say, rushed to include this this technology into their to the work. But uh for me, I don't have any problem. I don't want to be considered a Luddite. I'm somebody who I just said, you know, actually was at the forefront in some in some areas of bringing technology in. That's not a bad thing. It's worshiping the technology as though it has meaning rather than it being uh right alongside the microwave, the toaster oven, the washer and dryer in your life. These are things, these are tools to make life better. Um and and they have to a great degree, they have made life better for lots of people and the work world's better. Um, in a lot of ways, it's not, but it's better. But where charities can really lean in, where others in this space cannot, is the notion of meaning. We can provide through this interaction a community, a meaning, a partnership for something that's really, really profound. And we see this primarily not only in the religious organizations we work with, because you would assume that there's a meaning in there, but with a lot of the environmental organizations we work with, where people find this profound meaning in nature and and and and the wilds that are Canada, and they see that as part of their meaning. Um, so charities can see themselves as purveyors of that community, that meaningful existence, particularly with a certain group of you know, of older the older generation that has all along the line felt a need to have community and meaning. Remember, these baby boomers are the ones in the in the 60s and 70s that started in engaging with something that was more and broader in this way. Um, so they're they're primed to hear this. And my my I feel that the great advantage charities have over all of the other sectors and all of the other types of endeavors is that they can provide this meaning and they're going to do it best. And again, getting back to the CAGP world with having really great people who can provide connection directly to them. Yes, it seems quaint to have a meeting until you find out everybody wants a meeting. You know, it's quaint that to think about phone calls until you realize all your donors want to get on the call with you, um, or at least are happy that you're offering it. So I hear you loud and clear. This is the meaningful thing that we can lean into. And as long as leadership, and you know, sometimes we have to manage up. I hear that a lot around our place anyway, um, that's uh managing up to make sure that we feel we're leaning into that meaning rather than transaction is the thing that's going to really set apart some charities from others because this will be a bit of a competition over the next little while of how charities decide to implement it. Is it going to be a tool or is it going to be the way we interact? And I think if it's the former, you're going to be really successful. If it's the latter, you're going to see yourself struggling. That's my feeling of the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Well, and for those folks who maybe aren't familiar with CAGP, it's Canadian Association of Gift Planners. And for anyone who knows Ed, he knows that um, you know, he's very experienced in all things to do with legacy giving and estate giving. And these are the types of conversations that I think you're hearkening back to and and creating that meaning around really about a life. And when you go back to that couple that you gave as an example who had accumulated wealth through hard work and um perhaps luck and circumstances, I just I don't believe that that they don't care about where that hard-earned wealth goes. I I believe there's a story there, and I believe that it's just a matter of of having the conversation and finding out what the story is and and um making a connection. You know, it's um we're emotional beings, you know, and um it's emotion that drives philanthropy, it's emotion that you know drives people to support uh local charities that make them create GoFundMe's, that make them, you know, schlep their kids around with their, you know, UNICEF boxes or pledge or whatever it is. These are experiences and emotions. And I think I think we'd be doing ourselves a disservice if we just think that something like AI is going to um is gonna take all that away from us. I think we just need to to uh retrench and uh and revisit kind of uh what we're about, like you said. And it's about people and commitment to people. And attending a conference like the Canadian Association of Gift Planning Conference, where we get to actually have a lot of in-person discussions about these things and see people's reaction in a room, um, I always find is reassuring, actually, because it's easy to think that everyone else out there gets it, or that no one else has reservations about it, or that somebody else has all of the answers. Um, and then you get in a room with people again and you start to have the conversations and you realize no, they're thinking the way I'm thinking, and they have the same concerns and they value the same things. And um, this is the power, this is the engine, the people engine that that fuels kind of what we do.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Totally, totally, and and I think just you know, kind of finish this off because I do think this is an opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Um, to take AI is an opportunity, or pardon me, like AI is an opportunity, or what's the opportunity? What are you referring to?

SPEAKER_01 37:20

In the face of AI coming in um and it being the new fancy thing, that thing that you know, um we you know, and I think you alluded to this, where in five years' time or less time, in a year's time, people are saying, You're not using the latest AI, you know, uh what's wrong with you, right? Um, or and that's you know, that FOMO, that fear of missing out, that fear of being behind, that fear is what a lot of this is predicated upon, rather than my job as a fundraiser, our job as a charity is a human job. And you know, it's tools are not gonna dictate who we are. Um, you know, it's a good example, you know. I I love to use this example. Some people really cherish their cars, and if you do out there, great, but you are not your car. You know, you are not. Your car might be super powerful and fast and shiny, but you might not be any of those things. Uh, you're a human being. Um, and my point to that is it's a human reality, it's a human world. The the product doesn't define you. And look, we've been fighting that for a while, right? The greatest uh definitional product that ever has appeared has been Macintosh products, you know. People judge you whether you have a Mac iPhone or not, whether you have the most updated iPhone, you know, or some other kind of phone. There's there's decisions about you being made simply by what kind of phone you have. We have to get away from that and with AI, you know. Are we using you know, you can raise a lot of money with just a desk phone, right? If you know the right people to call. Okay. And uh, so let's just be human and let's be let's lean into the humanity of who we are, but also the the causes that we represent. I think that that for me is a decision though, Lisa. And I think for that's the that's why I'm bringing I brought this up. There's going to be decision making that's happening over the course of the next few months and next couple of years, which will be how do we institute this? And there'll be a rush to that. Um, and it's going to be a foregone conclusion that's going to replace everything. You know, it's like, how do we make this a useful tool for the work that we need to do? Put the work first. It's at the core of this, and the people who help us, then the rest of it's easy.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

I agree. And and I'm just going to add one little thing because it you tweaked me right there, and then I know it's time to uh wrap. But this is what happens when we just have a good conversation. That whole idea and uh in in our sector that um when something new comes in, whatever is old gets tossed completely aside. And I have seen it happen multiple times, not only with organizations I worked for, but adjacent organizations. And the example I'll use is database. So an organization is using a database because this is technology related, uh, and it has not been used effectively, it has not been used consistently, it has not had rules applied to it. So, of course, it is not delivering on what they need that database to do. So, what do they do? Instead of going back, retrenching, retraining, figuring it out, they actually get rid of that database and start with something new. Maybe they even get someone to build them a database because they think customization is what is needed. That was the problem with what had happened before. So they just start all over again without really looking clearly at what the issues were that were driving the problem to begin with. This could happen again with AI. If people just decide, well, all the old processes, they must not work anymore. So it has to be AI driven. We're gonna start everything new, my God. Then, you know, no wonder we're resource-strapped, no wonder people don't have time to get to all of their things. So there really has to be intentional, like intentionality to making these kind of moves. It is leader-driven. Leaders in the organization need to take a position, they need to be strategic and include their teams. And and that's how it's going to happen with success, especially with keeping our our mission as the foundational driver behind it. So um I'm optimistic, but but our track record isn't great in this area.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

So be optimistic, be optimistic. Trust our people, trust the people in this business. I always do. It's always worked out.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

That's a great note to take a break on, and then let's come back and do our um feel good wrap-ups with uh who we are giving a shout out to this week. Sound good, Ed?

SPEAKER_01 42:40

Sounds great.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Okay, we'll be right back. All right, here we are back with um perspectives on Canadian fundraising, and we're here to do our let's be charitable wrap-up. So, right in tune with what we've been talking about today, Ed. Um, and coincidentally, it has again to do with CAGP. Um, if you remember when Peggy Colleen joined us, she was talking, she's part of the CAGP foundation, and I had made a commitment to Peggy that I would make a donation uh to the foundation, which I did. And I got a phone call today from a member of the foundation to thank me. Someone picked up the phone, it wasn't an email, it wasn't a text, it was a live person on the other end who got my name right, thanked me for my contribution. We had a brief minute conversation, and uh it was lovely. It was absolutely lovely. So I'm gonna give a shout out for uh the CAGP putting their Money where their mouth is in terms of their fundraising and uh creating that donor connection because I experienced it today.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

That's great. Yeah, that's great. And my my um um let's get uh let's be charitable moment is to um another group of of people. I saw some of them last week at uh at an event. Um and uh there'll be more this week, uh Lisa when we're at the CAGP Canadian Association of Gift Planners Conference. Uh the um there'll be various events across the country in the coming few months. And I know we've talked about volunteers um, you know, it multiple times during this podcast over the last few months, but the volunteers who put on these events in various cities at various times, you know, um I think that you and I are gonna go and have a uh have a really productive and probably a good time at this at the Canadian Association of Gift Planners event. And those volunteers who've worked a full year putting it all together will get a you know a nice ovation after putting in hours of time, uh at a at a time, you know, particularly after COVID, where we didn't even know where we would be with these sorts of pardon me, so these sorts of events. And just given what we talked about today, when it comes to community gathering, being human, being together, feeling part of something, they're driving forward this activity. And it's unit's unseen a lot of the times. Um, yes, volunteers who raise a lot of money, that's really seen, you know, volunteers that raise community, that's harder to show. So um, to all the AFP, the AHP, the CAGP, all of the other chapter and national volunteers, congratulations and thanks so much. Lisa and I are gonna have a great time in Winnipeg in a couple of days. And uh it's all because of the hard work that you've put in.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

We sure are. So thank you for listening and joining us for Let's Get Real Perspectives on Fundraising in Canada. Ed and I are so happy that you could join us for our little tete-tete. And sometimes a lot of times we have these conversations between takes, but today you just got the uh kind of unfiltered uh version of what's on our mind. So um, Ed, it's been a pleasure. I'll look forward to seeing you in person soon. And um to our listeners out there, thanks for tuning in. Until next time.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

All right, thanks, guys.