See One, Do One, Coach One

In this episode, Ariana + Kimberly talk about The Great Commission in Matthew 28 and how discipleship leads to transformation. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:05

Um, Kendrick was really cute on Easter morning. Anytime he'll go to bed thinking about what the next day is gonna be. So, like if it's um like guess what today is, if it's like spirit day at school for something, he'll wake up and he'll be like, it's pajama day. I'm like, cool. And so Easter morning he gets up and it's really early because we had to leave the house before 7 a.m. to go to Eastern Washington, and he's um laying there, and sometimes he'll fake sleep just to like act like try to scare me when I wake him up. And so I'm like hovering over him and he has his eyes closed and he jumps up, he goes, You know what today is? I'm like, what? And I thought he was gonna say it's Easter. He goes, God has risen. Oh bless him.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Like, yeah, Kendrick Jesus is risen. I'm not kidding you. I woke up in a very similar fashion. Yeah. I told Frank-year-old boy, I woke up today feeling like I was gonna play in the Super Bowl. And then we got to church and Billy was like, uh, like when he started a ceremony, he's like, This is kind of like our Super Bowl. I was like, that's how I feel.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

You're like, I feel that. Yeah. I just took a sip of coffee and I like chuckled just now a little. Just remembered this morning I was drinking my morning cup of coffee and I had something stuck in my throat. This has never happened to me in my 38 years. Had something in my throat, had coffee in my mouth, and I couldn't like hurry up and swallow it. I literally coughed with coffee in my mouth, and coffee spewed everywhere all over the kitchen. Yeah. And then I had like Were you okay though? I was, I mean, I just had I just had a cough. I just had to cough. I was fine. And then Kendrick's in the background again. He goes, Mommy, I like scared him because it was so dramatic. Like literally coffee spewing everywhere. Even Jordan's like, What is going on? He goes, Mommy, I almost cried. I scared him so bad. That's so funny. But you guys, welcome to Through It. Welcome. Um, we normally record on a Saturday, but it's Monday. And so this is gonna air in less than 24 hours. Yeah. So this is as live as live will ever be for us on Through It.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

It is the day after Resurrection Sunday. Yeah, he's risen. The tomb is empty. Yeah. And I this I know that Jesus changed me because this holy week has been more different than any other holy week I've ever had in my life.

SPEAKER_04 2:31

That's actually really great to hear. Can you elaborate?

SPEAKER_00 2:35

I just felt like every day I would text my dad and my brothers because um I'm a I'm a preacher to a congregation of two, three men. They're my whole congregation. And so every day I would teach I would, you know, um text them like, this is the day that this happened, and this is what we should remember, and this is the scripture. And they read it, and I know that they probably love me, but they very rarely respond. Yeah, they see it though. Yeah, but it was just everything I felt I understood it more in the same way that I feel like the my transformation or change really happened. I think my moment of genuine salvation came when when I ex I had an encounter with Jesus, and I really felt that weight of like what it meant that he died for me.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

And I think sometimes I get really, really stuck on that piece that I have to remember that like we serve a living God. That he's alive. He's alive. Yeah, he endured all of that and he overcame it, that he beat death and that it's finished, and that we won, he won, and he's alive in heaven.

SPEAKER_04 3:44

I so love and appreciate our Good Friday service that we had at our church at 116 and just that moment of prayer that we had and that hour. I don't know if it was a full hour, but it went by so fast. But I really appreciate one of the people that went up there to pray, how she have she had even said, like, to not manufacture emotions. And it made me think about like, it's almost like we go into um, I don't know if Easter people do this, but a tendency, maybe even in Holy Week, for there to be like this feeling of like melancholy. Yeah. As if like we're still sitting in his death. We're not, yeah, you know, and you don't need to again manufacture that emotion, but to be remembered and to like even feel empowered that like we live in victory. Like, yes, that moment of like, I mean, just speaking personally for me, I do get emotional when I think about like, I don't deserve this, and yet you did this for me. Yes, you know, I think that's the part that really gets me, even like thinking about our children and our family and our friends and um the price that yeah, he had to ultimately pay and he was brutalized. And even that, you know, it should maybe for some people it doesn't trigger an emotion, but it should, you should feel something. Yeah, you know, but to not be stuck on that. So I love that you just said that.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

It's I mean, I have to remind myself of it. Because it's you we the emotion exactly like what you said is we have this free gift and it's available to anybody, yeah, and we don't deserve it, and we could never earn it, and yet still it was given to us, and the pain and everything that Jesus had to endure to give that to us is really humbling. It is so humbling, and just praise Jesus and praise the Lord that He rolled away the stone and that the tomb is empty and he's not there.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

I had this thought just now of like how I was saying that it's moments of gratitude that really just like it it tears me up and I'll get emotional about it. Um that verse where it says it's his kindness that leads us to repentance. It's stuff like that. I just had like this revelation of like what that means in this context.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

Of that moment of like, thank you, Jesus. I'm so grateful. Like, I'm so so so grateful. And it's feeling so grateful that'll make you turn to repentance, that'll make you turn away from like your old life. It's that kind of like I actually wonder what that word kindness translates to, like what it's refer referring to when it's in the original language, his kind of working repentance. Yeah, because it's not like, oh, you're so nice to me that I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z. You're being so nice. No, like his there has to be a deeper meaning of that word. For sure, kindness, yeah, because kindness just doesn't even scratch the surface.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

The same way that like thank you will never scratch the surface. Right, right. So I think this might segue us into what we were talking about. Um so today we wanted to talk about how um about discipleship and how discipleship is really what leads to transformation. And um, in speaking about just what we were talking about and how, you know, Holy Week was so different for me this year and how I really feel that Jesus changed me this year. And when I look back at, you know, just the way that we are human and the way that you and I are um like deeply analytical in this happened. So what led me to this place? How did I get here? What were the steps? What did I go through in life? All of that stuff. When I look back and think on, you know, yes, Jesus changed me. I met Jesus in in the shower after no, after believing that I knew him my whole life. And I did, but I I had a I had a big encounter. But also the things that got me to that point and and where my heart, how my heart had to be prepared and how I had to be pruned to even get to that point. And I don't think God is limitless and we can't put him in a box. So we can't give you like a recipe for an encounter or a recipe for transformation. But I know from what I have seen and what I have experienced, the discipleship is really what leads to transformation. Right. It's really what leads to transformation. And I have conversations with people often along the lines of like, you know, how do you know that God is talking to you? How do you know that this came from God? And I mean, like, my my short answer is always be like, Do you do you know his voice? Are you in his word? Right? How do you how do you know, excuse me, if something is from God, if you're not you don't know his character? Yeah. But then how do you do that? And I really think it comes from being discipled and then also doing discipling.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Yes. I think oftentimes too, in the way that how earlier I was referring to, like, I wonder what kindness means. But um what were you saying just now? Oh, yeah, his voice. I I think a lot of times we have to redefine words. So when we say things like ask questions like, how do you hear his voice, to even redefine what voice means. And I think most times, because this is what's most common, when we think voice, we think of like an audible, an audible sound. But like when we ask things like, how do you hear God's voice? to redefine God's voice, those two words together, not just a voice, but God's voice. Yeah, that's how you said that you can't box it in. God's voice, you there is not one way of hearing because he is literally everywhere. So all of creation speaks of God's voice.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah. Even the rocks cry out.

SPEAKER_04 9:33

Even the rocks cry out. Yeah. How do you define God's voice? And so how you're saying to even point it back to scripture too, like this, this, this, what we call a book, his holy, the holy Bible are his words, like this is also God's voice. Yeah. Um, and so redefining even that part, but I so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

So, in just in when I think about discipleship, I always think about the Great Commission.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Would do you agree or do you think of something else?

SPEAKER_04 10:04

No, I agree, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

So, in um, if you're familiar with the Great Commission, you can probably recite it off the top of your head. I think it's something that most people know. But if you aren't aware of what the Great Commission is, um, some of the last recorded words of Jesus before he ascends into heaven at the end of Matthew, this is how they're um recorded. So some of the last things that he said to his disciples before he went up is um Matthew 28. And I think it starts in verse 16, but I have it here from 18 to 20. And it says, And Jesus came and said to them, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you always to the end of the age.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

So good, so good. I my ESV Bible, it does start in verse 16. I do want to read 16 because I actually think this is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

16, 17, it says, Um, now the eleven disciples went to Galilee to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. So 11 also recognizing Judas, right, was lost. Um, verse 17. When they saw him, they worshipped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, All authority in heaven, and then what you had read. But I just think it's so interesting that in the way that depending on what version of the Bible you have, the different passages have different subtitles, and even the way that it's broken down. But I think it's so interesting that under the subtitle The Great Commission, that in verse 17 that they included that part about they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

And so it's so crazy. He's in front of your face. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Yet some doubted. And so to even be encouraged, and I might be jumping way ahead here, but even in our journey of salvation and even discipleship, to not be discouraged if some people um still choose not to believe, or some people um just come across as being a resistance to be reminded that some people doubted Jesus, yeah, the Son of God.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Even after seeing it all happen.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

Yeah. And this even confirms, and this is one of the like um the ways that people defend our faith, and how they say if this was all made up, they wouldn't have made, you know, some of the most important eyewitnesses as women.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:45

Right. Because that would make it seem like it's less reliable in the way that they didn't use women in that way. But even here, when it says like they included the part about some doubted. Like if you're trying to create an argument or if you're trying to like, um, what's the word? If you're trying to fabricate, fabricate, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

You're not going to acknowledge that people were doubting. You're gonna say everybody believed with everything and then everyone worships, yes, but that's not how the Bible goes.

SPEAKER_04 13:17

And if anything, that like affirms, you know, like okay, some doubt it. And that, but that's again, that's also just like the reality of this world. Like, some are gonna doubt, yeah, has nothing to do with you though.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

No, and like we've mentioned, um, we had a whole episode on this. We're seed planters, yeah, but God does the changing, God does the changing, yeah. So I um in looking into the Great Commission, I learned that in the original Greek, the only direct command was to make disciples. So the part that says go to baptize and to teach are indirect commands. So still commands, but indirect. Okay. But there was the one direct command is make disciples. And this applies to all of us, to all make disciples. And I think, I mean, it doesn't say go be like be discipled, but Kim and I said before we were before we started pressing record that like pretty much the whole book of Proverbs is just about how you need to be able to take correction. Yeah. Then just take correction. You fool. Yeah, you fool. And that's I think like just part of that too. That you you're never there, like you always need somebody um discipling you. Somebody should be pouring into you, and you should be pouring into somebody else, yeah. At all times.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

Yeah. Proverbs is funny. I keep going like you fool. You ant, you worm. I love the worm part. I love the worm.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

I always I don't even know the address of that one. But I always reference that.

SPEAKER_04 14:53

Oh, that'll keep you humble. Um, I even for us, so we had talked about this. We had gone to church for years and years, and it's thinking about what is practically the thing that positioned us to really grow. And you and I said similar things. It was being in community going to Bible study. And so, yes, the Holy Spirit has been working and has been watering the seeds that have been in us, but part of the catalyst, I think, of that growth was us choosing to go to Bible study and being drawn to that. Because when you're in a Bible study, it's really hard to hide. Not to say that everyone's watching you and you're gonna get called out.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:39

But like when you're in service, you're it's easier to come late. It's easier to leave early, it's easier to sit in the back and to go unnoticed. To be distracted, to be distracted. You could be on your phone and no one's gonna say anything, or you'll feel um less, I don't know, weird about it. Like you think you can kind of get away with it, maybe easier. Yeah, because there's more people.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

You you blend in. Yeah, could you imagine Billy being like, All right, and I can see you on your phone in the second row. Yeah, you have permission, Billy. Totally. Never in my life would I pull my phone out. If it's out, it's because I'm looking at a different version on the Bible app.

SPEAKER_04 16:16

That's funny. Um, but like in a group, can you imagine if someone just like it would be way more disruptive if someone just was up and down constantly? If you look over and they're just scrolling through Instagram or something. Yeah. Like it's it's it's harder to, I don't know, fly under the radar when you're in a small group.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

How many of them, how many like typically are at your small group, like 15, 20?

SPEAKER_04 16:43

We yeah. Uh last group felt like probably the most in a while, and that was 18.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Okay. So there's even then like you you can see everybody. Yeah. Nobody, you're all in a circle, you can see everybody. And this is not about like, shame, shame, I know your name. It's that we're just in, we have a it's like when you um when you go to college and you can pick where you sit for the first time, right? And some people pick to sit in the front of the class, they choose to sit in the front of the class. I try I always try to sit in the front.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

I yeah, I was also a horrible student in college.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

You were?

SPEAKER_04 17:20

Yeah, I was.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

I just don't see that for you because you just were smart enough already.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

No, I just yeah, I don't I was a horrible student in college. Different priorities, different part because I was like, I need to go work, yeah. And also no one's taking attendance, no accountability.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Yeah, that's that's good.

SPEAKER_04 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

But the the people who I there is um you're all looking at each other. But I saw a study somewhere about the the people who sit in the front tend to have higher test scores by like a certain percentage, and that's not an accident, and I think it's because they're aware that more people can see them. Also, they're okay that people can see them because they know that like they're there to learn, right? Like, I'm not here to be looked at, I'm here because I'm I've got a job to do, something to get done. And so just the yeah, like the it lessens distractions, you don't get lumped in. People are gonna know your name probably more, and that's the same for small groups where you can go to a church for years and not know the pastor doesn't know your name. And if you're not involved, or you don't know the pastor's name, and you get to a small group and suddenly everybody knows your name and they're asking you about things, and because they want to know, because we love godly community, right? And we want to we want to know about these people. But all is that to say that like that's I in in my opinion, and you can tell me I'm wrong, I don't think Kim will, but you listener, church is not going to disciple you. I think church can prepare your heart for discipleship, and I'm sure that there are like there are really profound sermons that will disciple you in certain ways. Yes, a hundred percent. But it is the after hours, right? It is the Monday through Saturday where discipleship happens, where you have the person that's pouring into you, the person that you're pouring into, the time that you're in the secret place, the the small groups you're attending, that's that's where transformation happens.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

And it's a lot of times too when that that personal conviction, just like when you're in a small group, there's a lot of back and forth, and the way that you're like, we're asking each other questions, we're getting to know each other, and as we're uncovering things about each other's life, you're kind of like, um, I don't know, you get to a point where you're you're forced to be self-reflective and you can't hide it in front of this person that you're talking to, you know. And when you're in a larger crowd, like in a congregation at church, there's not a dialogue, you're sitting and you're listening. But this is also why, too, in this podcast, as we bring topics to each other, it's a lot of times in live conversation that there are fresh revelations that come out.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

As we're kind of bantering and going back and forth. And so that same thing happens in small groups. And so, all that to say, too, like, yes, this is a plug for small groups because this has been one of the catalysts that's changed our faith or our walk. Um, but to say in discipleship, it happens in community.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

It doesn't happen when you're by yourself. So in in Romans 12, 2, Paul says, Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by testing, you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. And the way, like I keep saying transformation comes from discipleship, but what you're consuming, what like what you ingest on the outside is what you produce, right? What you're going to reflect. And if if you only go to church and you're only ingesting or digesting um the gospel, the word of God, or sermons on Saturday for let probably less than an hour. I don't think we go to many services that, I mean, worship, yes, but when you're hearing the sermon, it's probably less than an hour. Yeah. And if that's your only time interacting with your Heavenly Father, that means every other hour of the week, you're consuming the world. And then you're going to be, what does he say? Do not be conformed to this world, right? We're called to be set apart. We're called to be the salt and the light. But if you're not, if you're not it receiving it or ingesting the salt and the light or learning about it, how are you going to reflect that? Take it out. Like how you're gonna trans be transformed.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

Yeah. I I wanna even um define here discipleship. So I'm gonna read it says discipleship is the lifelong intentional process of following Jesus, modeling one's life after his example, and helping others do the same. And then it goes on to say it involves a commitment to spiritual growth, studying scripture, prayer, and community, moving beyond mere belief to active obedience and transformation into Christ's likeness.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

That is so good.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

Moving beyond, we read that part. Moving beyond mere belief to active obedience. Come on. So I love that too. This is the the distinction between someone that says, I am a Christian, a convert, versus a disciple.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

A learner, a follower, a spreader.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Yeah. Going beyond mere belief to active, you're walking it out. There's an active obedience, an active transformation, um, not just a label of saying and and declaring that uh I'm Christian. I believe in God. Okay, well, if I just watched your life without hearing you say I'm a Christian, by watching your life, would I be able to see through the reflection of your life that you're Christian?

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:28

Man, that is also very humbling.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Where are the fruit?

SPEAKER_04 23:31

Yes. Yeah. It's like, how would you feel if someone came up to you and was like, oh, what do you believe in? And then you're like, oh, well, I believe in Jesus. I'm a Christian. And if their response was like, Oh, really? I would have never guessed. I'm like, oh, that'd be such a dagger to my heart. Yeah. That would be really sad. Yeah. And it would make me be like, okay, well, what is it about my life that makes it seem like it's some elusive thing? Like they wouldn't be able to get. Like, I pray that people would be able to see my life and be like, you know, she lives her life like she's Christian.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

We're again the salt and the light and ambassadors for the kingdom of God, recommendation letters for Christ.

SPEAKER_04 24:14

Yeah. Yeah. I low-key like it when people cuss in front of me and they're like, oh sorry. And I'm like, yeah. Cool. I'm never like, I don't ever say, like, please don't guss in front of me. Yeah. You know? But every now and then when I'm talking to someone and it slips into like, oh, excuse me, or excuse my language.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

I'm like, okay, cool. I'll receive that as a compliment, actually.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

It that is a perfect way of looking at that. Yeah. Because that is funny. I don't think I've ever told anybody, maybe outside of my husband, that his language. Uh-huh. He not all the time, but sometimes I'm like, yeah. Um, but when people have said that to me, I've even kind of been like, that's funny. Why would you why would you apologize? But I I mean, yeah, you're right. And if if they are apologizing because they know without you having to um like promote it or whatever, get it, but just talk about it, then we're doing something right.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

Right, yeah. Can you elaborate on the you had said earlier the go baptize and teach or go teach and baptize?

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Um I can elaborate on as much as I know.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

So what what I had mentioned before was that in in the Greek, the only direct command is to make disciples.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

So um going, baptizing, and teaching are the means to which we fulfill the command of making disciples. That's great. So we have to to go to baptize and to teach. Yeah. And that's how you that's how you make disciples. But the command, the command from Jesus was to go make them.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

Right, right. No, I love that. I I think I was trying to remember because I wrote down those three words and I was trying to remember in what context you had said that. No, that's really great. Um, it's also making me think, too, it's like if being a disciple is a lifelong intentional process of following Jesus and you're modeling your life to be like him, basically you're a student, but not just a student, you are a lifelong student. Um, it's a reminder that this entire process is a lifelong process. So you might have the a moment of confessing and that moment where you receive salvation, that moment of um confessing that Lord is that Jesus is your Lord and Savior, and that we're all sinners and that we need him. That that's that moment of conversion, right? So even just thinking about like Saul DePaul, he had that Jesus supernatural encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus, and that's when he was converted. But then he spent the rest of his life being a disciple.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

Like that's how we are as Christians. It's not just to declare that I am a Christian, but it's a lifelong, like we are forever disciples. And then even like, what does that look like? So even like how you had mentioned, so it's like um whether it's, you know, sharing the good news with your friends and your family, um, whether it's, you know, to encourage people, like, oh, have you been baptized, or like you even being baptized? You know, we were both baptized in our church community. It's um how you go about being, how your life, what is your life reflecting, right? I was thinking, um my friends that I have that are not Christians, or honestly, every single person that I meet, as soon as I realize that they're not Christian, um, not to say this in any kind of a like, look what I'm doing, but just sharing my thoughts. Anytime I I realize someone is not Christian, I'm constantly trying to brainstorm how can I plug the word of God into our conversations? How can I um through relationship invite them to church?

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:04

Like, what can I do to get you? You know, yeah. I'm like thinking about some of my clients. I'm like, okay, I know a lot of them that are not Christian. I'm constantly trying to think, like, okay, what kind of conversation can we have that we can point it to Jesus in some way? Or for me to like not be, you know, most of the time I'm not like spitting like scripture and like preaching at them, but even being like, okay, how can I navigate a conversation or what what questions can I ask where it'll end up bringing up our faith? Um, I think that's the thing I'm constantly trying to do in a way that seems inviting and not condemning.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, that I think that's the line that we all walk, right? Of like, how do we you posted this? Did you post it or to Jordan or both of you? Jordan posted it and then I screenshotted it and reposted it. Oh my gosh. They're like, I'm not trying to force my religion on you. Let's be clear. Yeah. I just want to see you in heaven. That part. And I wish more people, I I told this is a little bit off topic, but I'm gonna uh talk about it. So um my group of girlfriends from high school, I am in touch indirectly, like through social media with a couple of them and um who've been saved. And we I don't remember them ever speaking about, talking about, knowing anything about Jesus when we were in high school, and who knows if they did and it just didn't come up. I don't know, but by the grace of God, thank you, Jesus, they have been saved. And over the weekend, one of them had posted something about the resurrection, and I couldn't help it, and I felt a little silly doing this, but I replied and I said, I were I cannot tell you through words, or words cannot express how overjoyed I am to know that one day you and I will both be in the full presence of God together. That's great. Like it is, I you I can't, I can't because I can't think of the the the other part of that. Like it is so I mean, I can't, I think about it all the time, and it yeah, it's just devastating to me. But that is like I would rather you think I'm trying to force something on you than you say, why did you never tell me at the end?

SPEAKER_04 30:18

Yeah, yeah, that's really beautiful and definitely not something to feel silly about, but it's funny how like we will think that, you know. I was as you're talking, I'm thinking about like um we have a lot of similarities with how we process, but we also have our own differences with how we process. And I think it's actually so cool that you feel that so deeply because that is the God's design and the the part of the body that you are, the member of the body that you are, that God uses that and how you feel that so deeply for even your friend that you've just barely kind of sort of kept in touch with.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

You know, I think is like really cool these certain emotions that we have for other people, how it really is like divine design, yeah, and also righteous burdens that we should carry. Because how you feel about something, I might not feel the same. How I feel about something, it might not be the same, but like that is how God is using us individually.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

That's how the body all works, right? We each have the the ear does the ear things, the foot does the foot things, right? Right. And there's there is like there's a difference between evangelism and discipleship, right? Like evangelism is somebody who doesn't know, is not saved, and needs to be told for the first time. Discipleship is they know in the heart in their heart, they proclaimed with their mouth, and now the fun part starts, right? Now, now you've got the ultimate gift, but you've got to now teach, go teach, and baptize and develop within your faith.

SPEAKER_04 31:57

That's interesting. Um, I like how you said that, you know, like to evangelize now. You're sharing the faith, you're sharing the good news, and you're you're wanting people to convert and discipleship. It's like people that are in your community and you're like you're living together, walking out your faith together. So even like the in Matthew 28, 19, go therefore, go therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and of the Holy Spirit teaching them, etc. So to even sit on that part, like this is like people in your own community already.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

So it's not just like I love that distinction that you made. It's like, yeah, go and share the good news to people that don't know, but also like let's not forget to like meet together. Let's let's not forget to stir up one another. Yes. Like, even our people that are already in the body of Christ, like this is the it's not good enough, actually, according to Matthew 28, 19. It's not good enough to just to just declare that you're saved and you have salvation than that you believe in Jesus, and just to sit by yourself. No, it's not good enough.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

This is this is a command for all Christians, everybody, not just somebody who who feels the the calling um of like missionary work. Yeah, this is right.

SPEAKER_04 33:21

Yeah, this is a solid reminder because again, now going back to that definition of discipleship, how again, it's a lifelong intentional process. And so, what is it for us to have that moment of conversion, that moment of salvation? Um, and then to not continue to walk it out. Like there is um pruning that has to happen.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:45

Like there is um, there's just way more work that has to be done.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Yeah. It's almost like I used to tell people um the happiest you're ever gonna be with your body is the first day you go to the gym. And then every day after that, you're never gonna be big enough and you're never gonna be lean enough. And it's like, you know, that like the psalm says, like, restore to me the joy of your salvation. Like the when you have that moment and you're changed, right? And then um, and not that every moment after that is you striving or trying to be doing something different, but like, okay, now I know. So now I need to learn. Now I need to go and make.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Yeah, yeah. It's again like um when you have something good, like you want to share it. Yes. It's like when you eat a bite of something really delicious, it's like, oh, you want to try some? Like you want someone else to take a bite. Even like just using a fruit tree again as a metaphor, it's like the fruit on the tree is not for the tree itself. The fruit on the tree is for it to feed other people around it, you know, and so it's like we have been given this like gift and we want to share it with everyone. We want to share the good news, we want to go and make disciples. We and I don't know, I just keep I keep getting drawn back to the word again, disciple. So it's like in a sense, we are students.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Yeah, pupil is another word or student for disciple.

SPEAKER_04 35:17

Yeah, and so you're you're just never gonna learn enough. Like you are a forever student. Yes, you should want to keep on learning, keep on learning. Yes, and then to do it with each other, because what do you gonna do? Just learn on your own. No, like you you need someone else pouring into you in the way that you also need to be pouring out. Yes, it's a constant cycle.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

And let's let's let the word disciple keep us humble, right? Because even though we are making disciples, that doesn't make us teachers. I mean, we can have a gift of teaching to be able to do that in a certain way, like a gift from the Holy Spirit, but you're never fully finished. The lifetime disciple is always going to be the student. You're still gonna be teaching, like Kim said, pouring out into other people, but you're still always learning. And I think most people who even in professions are teachers or educators know that they are constantly being taught and educated also, like their learning is never done.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

In a sense, a teacher is also forever a forever student.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:25

I'm um that word go, go there for, it's so studying that word go here in the origin in the original Greek, um, it's a participle and should be translated as like as you go and going. And so as we're Christians, as we're going about being Christians, we should be there should be a constant, like, I don't know, forward movement of like going.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

And so as we're again living our life as a Christian, we should be going about being a student, going about sharing, exchanging information with each other, like exchanging revelations, stirring each other up. Like this life of being a Christian, it's not a checkbox and one and done. It is a continuous, like a very dynamic forward movement and a going like a constant progression development in our Christian age.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

We can say pruning, seasoning, learning.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

I mean, yeah, walking.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

So I am um, I think you know, practically speaking, when I think about how we think, yes, great, we are called to go and make disciples. How do I do that now? And if I mean, if you're like me, like we said, as soon as you know something good or you have something good, you want to share it to somebody. So I that was very much my experience where it's like every time I know something or I've learned something good, I want to share it to everybody. But we cannot, we need to make sure what we're doing is correct, right? We need to have reverence for the word of God, we need to have reverence for God and not be taking things like, oh, I had I read this and I had this revelation, and this is what this means. So it reminded me of um a couple things, the way, like, so in remind me the verse in Mark where Jesus says, Um, come and follow.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

Um, I know that Matthew. Oh, is it Matthew? Well, it's probably in the other gospels too, but the one that I read was Matthew 4. Matthew 419.

unknown 38:43

No.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

I'm gonna read it real quick. Thank you. Um, Matthew 4, 19, come follow me, Jesus said, and I will send you out to fish for people.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

So come follow, and I will send.

SPEAKER_04 38:57

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

So the the order of that. So if you want to know, if you're like, okay, I love Jesus, I want to obey every word, how do I make disciples? Come to Jesus, follow Jesus, He will send you. And I kept thinking about this, this like um phrase we used to use in in like coaching and leadership and stuff, and to understand when somebody really knows something. And it's um see one, do one, teach one. And I guess it started from like medical training in um for surgeons. Okay, and that's how they would make sure that they knew a surgeon, knew a procedure by having them see it, do it, and then teach it. They don't use that anymore because they're cutting into people. So I don't know, but I think it actually works really, really well. And I think it relates to this with see one, do one, teach one, and then come, follow, go. So see one, like see God, see how how it's how he is working, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:04

Like seeing the buttons come to him first, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

And then do one, like experience it, follow, yeah, follow. That's really good, and then teach. Wow. So um in the like plain English, we could say see one, do one, teach one, but from but biblically it would be come, follow, go.

SPEAKER_04 40:26

That's really good. And the importance of that order, like, how many times all throughout the Bible do we see just the beauty of order and and God's just design? Order definitely matters. Um because, like you said, you can't like go teach before you follow. No, you have to first be with Jesus. You first have to be a Jesus follower, you know. You first have to um be in his word. You and because how can you properly teach something and not even teach? Maybe teach sounds like a a heavier responsibility, but even like relay a message properly without first knowing what the message fully is.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

And then it's like, even as we're receiving, and this is why too, like in community, it's important to do this together. Um, because you know, we had talked before about discernment. You also need to be able to discern if this teaching is sound.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:28

And how would you know? We talked about hearing God's voice, the sheep know his voice. Like, if you're not in the word and you haven't yourself followed and been rooted, when someone is trying to teach you something, what are you just gonna go follow any anything anyone teaches?

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:43

You first have to discern that this is something to even follow. And how do you do that unless you have the word in you as well?

SPEAKER_00 41:51

You that in that way you could be led astray. You could also do the opposite and not believe anything because you think all of the revelations that you had are 100% true, and you're not listening to to the Holy Spirit and and it convict you because you're like, um, right, I know, I know how to interpret this. Yeah, even though everybody else says that this means this, right? I think it means this. Right. So um, there I go again. Me and Ariana.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

But like being plugged into the word. I think what you're saying too, though, it reminds me of people that are sometimes everything is spiritual, but they're never in the word. Or some people that are only in the word and they're taking it like almost so literally that they're like even quenching the spirit.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

Like you need you need both. You need both. You need both. So you need to be in the word and root it, but you also need the discipleship and someone pouring it. Like it's both and you can't do one thing without the other.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Um, the body is so beautiful. God is so good to us with discipleship. If you find yourself in a situation when you're like, I don't have anybody to disciple me, I don't know who should disciple me. One, pray for it, but also ask somebody. Love this.

SPEAKER_04 43:07

Okay, thank you for that. That's so good. Ask someone because guess what?

SPEAKER_00 43:12

We everybody will do it. If you find somebody and you're like, this person is filled with the Holy Spirit, this woman is on fire. I want to ask her, you know, everything I can. They'll do it.

SPEAKER_04 43:26

Ask questions, ask questions, ask questions. But I'm so big on the ask part because it's one thing I think like it's like the whole like um victim just mentality of like, why I can't find anyone to I don't have a mentor. I don't have anyone to nobody wants to mentor me. Like if you if you see someone in your community where you're like, man, I I want to learn more from her. I have more questions. Even if it's just simply asking that person questions. Like again and again every time that you see them, or to not be so timid and shy to um be scared to ask them, like, hey, you know, I've really been thinking a lot about, you know, I you know have all these questions. Um, I know that I need to be discipled. I would love to be able to meet with you every couple weeks or even every month just to sit down. Like, you don't have to make it awkward and be like, will you disciple me? I mean, you can. Totally, you know, check, check yes, no, or maybe. You could, but could I be your disciple?

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Yeah, yes, no, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 44:37

But I mean, totally ask. It's like one thing to um keep repeating this problem that you have, but to never be proactive about seeking out a solution.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

It's like what I said my utopia would be where nobody would be allowed to assume. You can't assume. Because this, and look, this is this is what I mean by like the body is so beautiful and Jesus is so good, and we are so loved. Because those, I'm just gonna say if it's a if you're a woman, you should be discipled by a woman a hundred percent. A hundred percent. If you're a man, you should be discipled by a man. And and I will, I'll die on that hill.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

Noteworthy.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Yeah. So if you're a woman and you see a woman that you're inspired by who you can tell just is really on fire for the Lord, and you ask them, I would be willing to bet nine times out of ten that that that woman would be so glad and gracious to help you and would love, because I Kim and I, not that I am a teacher or anybody to disciple anybody, but we love to talk about the things of God.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

And most women on fire do. And it's it, it's not because, oh, well, I'm supposed to do this because I'm a Christian. Well, you asked me to disciple you, but the the Great Commission said I have to. It's this when you're on fire for Jesus, yeah, you and sold out for the Holy Spirit. That's all you want to talk about.

SPEAKER_04 46:06

And to be and to have someone where you can share these like really beautiful revelations with is actually something to be treasured. So treasured. And um, to your point, too, like most people would be so honored to be like, Yes, I would love to walk, because that's also that person is called to do so. So what a beautiful thing that now you've created an opportunity for someone to pour into, you know? Yeah, like it's it's both ways. Like you should disciple someone, and also you need to be discipled. And so I'm being reminded in Ephesians 4, 16, it says, from whom the whole body joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love. And so just the importance of each individual part of the body as a whole, and that when each person um to be cliche, when you are who God has created you to be and not try to be like someone else, when we could all come together in that way, the body could work properly as a unit, yeah, and then it could grow and you could build each other up in that way.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Yes. Isn't that amazing?

SPEAKER_04 47:19

Yeah, I I yeah, like we need. I love when I talk to someone they and they bring such fresh perspective where I'm like, whoa, I would have never thought about this. That is that's it though.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Like that is I know exactly what you mean by that feeling when like somebody says something and it was like that's so great. Right. And then it sticks with you. And it's that like see one, do one, teach one. You hear it, you see it. Now you you use it and then you go teach it.

SPEAKER_04 47:51

Yeah. You know, what do you think? Like when we were in middle school and high school, and maybe even in college, um, I feel like it wasn't like for me, for example, I didn't even realize the need for mentorship until like maybe my late 20s, early 30s. And not even like discipleship, but even just like mentorship. People have mentored me throughout my life without me putting that label on it. Um, but I feel like maybe in the last 10 years, people have um stressed the importance of it more. When for you was the first time that you sought out like, oh, I I need a mentor for this, or um what gave you that realization? In anything or like discipleship? I think in anything, and I feel like I know what you might say, but did you ever did you ever um, did you always have that realization?

SPEAKER_00 48:48

I always came from a place of, and I this is so by the grace of God, I don't know how I knew this even young. I always came from a place of somebody is always going to know so much more than you use every resource you can. That being if if you can find somebody who knows what who knows life, the profession you're in, a skill, a hobby better than you do, get everything you can out of them. And I think most my experience outside of the body and outside of discipleship is people don't want to give you that much and they don't want to give it to you for free. Or they it kind of like kind of puffs them up or feeds their ego when you ask them a little bit when you kind of seek out something like, oh, you're you're so good at this, let me help you, or will you help me? I didn't receive a lot of that in return really well, but but I sought it out always, just like trying to be resourceful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:53

I think that because I I think similarly too, like I've just always been a generally like curious person. And like if you don't know something, like be resourceful. But I think that there's something so distinctively special about having someone that is a mentor, um, someone to disciple you. Like, I don't know, I feel like um, like I'm thinking about one particular person where the last maybe three years now, where we've had phone calls every two weeks and have scheduled it out and have been very intentional with a sense of like she is my mentor.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

I'm laughing because I we we're not talking about names, but I think I have phone calls every two weeks with the same person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:39

And like they're they're mentoring you type of 110%. That's funny. And so it's like, but it's it's it's different when you're like intentional with that. Yeah. Because so, like this person I'm thinking about, sometimes if we don't have anything to talk about, though, we'll we'll still make it a point to connect with each other. Because also so much of discipleship, it's not so much of formally like being so formal with learning something, but even just like hearing about their life and how they live life and you're learning from that, like just having that perspective, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

And and that when you say you have like you just that natural curiosity, I I I understand, I see, I think, because I I feel like I know that too. Like, I just want to listen to how you process everyday things, and even when they and it's just in telling of a story or even like kind of casual conversation, you still learn things. Right. There are still things from that because a different season, a different like skill set, a different piece of knowledge. But yeah, it's if I guess I I'll I'll wrap us up. And did you have any final thoughts before I do that?

SPEAKER_04 51:52

No, I mean, but I mean, just to piggyback off of though, like watching someone talk to their kids, watching someone talk to someone at church that they don't know, watching how someone answers a question to someone, like again, I'm thinking about another specific person. She doesn't, I've said this to her too, like you don't realize how much you disciple me by me just watching you and how you interact with people, you are discipling me.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Yeah, it that's I mean, we let's call back to the beginning of the episode. Yeah, our lives are a letter of recommendation. We're ambassadors for the kingdom of God. Yes. So um if you don't have somebody discipling you, I would encourage everybody. This is like the through it challenge. If you don't have somebody discipling you, go find somebody this week. Right. And uh just ask that, ask them. And and even if you have to pray and say, Holy Spirit, give me the discernment to to lead me to the person that should be discipling me. I believe uh in a hundred percent of faith in in the name of Jesus that he will give you that person, and it'll come from thinking of somebody randomly, a a random text, something like that. But um, go if you don't have somebody that is discipling you, go find somebody this week. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:10

And then to be reminded too. So again, going back to kind of the start of this episode, how we've had these moments of just overwhelming gratitude of thank you, Jesus. Um none of us are, I mean, it's possible some of us could could have been saved by getting no exposure from any church or religious context, but like most of us are saved because someone had given us a word, yeah, spoken message to us or something.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

The Holy Spirit comes in the form of a vessel, usually.

SPEAKER_04 53:43

Yes, absolutely. So it's like this is why the Great Commission is so important. You know, you even think about what about these people, like indigenous people that live in remote areas who you know, there is there are testimonies where the Holy Spirit has radically encountered people that live in remote areas, but for the most part, that's why there's there are missionaries.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:02

Like we need to, again, um, we are called to go make disciples out of the nation so that we could spread the good news. We could spread what God has done for us and share a testimony.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

So come, follow, go.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

All right. Um, last personal note. Um, super sorry for everybody who listened to last week's episode and the sound being way off. I noticed it. I was embarrassed, and it was I salvaged it the best I could. Um sorry to Vic too, because it was such a cool episode and I wish it was more clear, but I think we got out what we needed to. It was just a little bit of hot mic. Yeah. Um, and we have fixed it. So thanks for if you came back after less hanging in there. Yeah. Where like the episode title was We Don't Even Know What We're Doing. Exactly. Bidding for that. All right. Um, why don't I say a quick prayer? Yeah. And then we gotta run back to life. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right, Father, thank you, Lord. Thank you. Thank you for this week. Thank you for just reminding us and letting us live in this state of knowing that we serve a living Godfather, that you are not in the grave, that the tomb is empty, Lord, and that because you're faithful and that you told the the your disciples that you were going to be raised in three days and you are a man of your word, and you did, Lord, we can now point to the predictability of how good you are, Lord. We now know that it's that you are always good and that you are always going to keep your word, Lord. So we thank you for that. We thank you for the commission to go make disciples, Father. I thank you for the body of Christ that disciples each other. I pray that everybody listening to this has somebody discipling them and that they're able to extend that discipleship to others, to um other believers. I pray that you give us the wisdom and the discernment to disciple in your name correctly, Father, that we have sound and safe doctrine, that we can hear your voice, and that we always do this with the heart posture to bring glory to you, Lord, and not to puff ourselves up. I pray for everybody who doesn't have a disciple in their life right now, Lord, that you might lead them to that disciple. I believe in faith that you'll lead them to that disciple, Father, because I know that anybody who seeks first, Lord, that you show up and that you'll give us vessels of your Holy Spirit and ways to do that. Thank you, Lord Jesus. I pray that you give us opportunities to bless each other this week. Bring us people we can disciple, and bring us people who continue to disciple us for the rest of our lives, Lord. Thank you in Jesus' name. Amen.