Through It
Through It is a Christian podcast hosted by Ariana and Kimberly - two women who love Jesus and have been through it. Join them for real, faith-filled conversations on how to talk through it, walk through it, pray through it, and get through it.
Through It
Dust Off Your Feet
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Following last week’s conversation on discipleship, this week Ariana + Kimberly are talking about evangelism. If you’ve ever felt unsure about how to share your faith, you’re not alone—us too. Join us as we talk Through It together.
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I've been listening to um you know the CC uh Wyina's song More Than This. Oh my gosh, well I've been listening to it on repeat. Yeah. I can't not, and it I've I've heard it so many times before, but I feel like that's what happens with like I don't know if you want to call it worship music or Christian music. Like I'll hear a song. Yeah, actually. But then I'll hear it in a different time. It's like reading the word, where like when you read something you know you've read, but it hits you in a different season. Right. That's how I feel about this song right now. Okay, I'm gonna have to play that when I go back home.
SPEAKER_01Cece's probably one of my favorites. She's great, she's got such a strong voice. Even like, have you heard her talk? Yes. She's like such a joy to even listen to you and watch talk. She has such a joy that like radiates through her.
SPEAKER_02Her mom was a singer too, right? Vicki Wynez.
SPEAKER_01Didn't know that. I'm I know her whole family is musical. Like yeah, she grew up singing with her brother.
SPEAKER_02I'm making the assumption with the last name. Yeah. But I know that Vicky Wynez is another singer.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I would believe it because her family's talented in that way. That's yeah, really cool. So I don't know where my brother got it from because no one in my family is really musical at all.
SPEAKER_02Um, I love those little things about siblings though and families, the way that you have all of those like very um, like the things that you're similar with, like you have similar personalities, like you're saying, like you're both like pretty bold people, but then everybody still has that little uniqueness to them and how they operate and what they do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know, because at the same time we're very different.
SPEAKER_02You know what's extra cool is you know, my older brother Brendan. I didn't meet Brendan until I was 20. So he would have been roughly 22 and we're like all the same. Like he's it's like we were raised in the same house.
SPEAKER_01Wow. That is interesting. What was that like when you first met him? Did you just feel like the sibling love immediately, or did you feel like you're meeting a stranger?
SPEAKER_02I felt the sibling love immediately. That's how that gave me chills. I think partially because he looked so much like our dad that it was like undeniable. Wow. And I was so excited to meet him. And then he lived so close that we I think he equally was excited. So we just started, it was like we knew each other our whole lives. We just started seeing each other all the time, hanging out all the time. Wow, I could cry thinking about that. That's so cool. Yeah, he's great. He's gonna have a baby in five days. His second soon? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness. He's gonna have a little girl. Girl, that's right. Oh my goodness. I'm gonna have my first niece. That's exciting. I know all my friends that have kids have boys.
SPEAKER_02Boys. Same. This is the first girl.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that's I wonder what she's gonna look like.
SPEAKER_02If she's gonna be as fair as her brother's Julian, I think she'll hopefully this one will look Mexican. How cute.
SPEAKER_01Like more like Joe, yeah.
SPEAKER_02How cute. Okay. Well, welcome to Through It.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Through It, everyone. This is Ariana. This is Kimberly. So, the last episode, if you guys listened, we talked about discipleship. And so we thought it'd be fitting if we talk about evangelism and the way that discipleship and evangelism, they kind of hold hands in that way where they're very similar. Um, so we figured this would be a perfect follow-up. There's a bunch of different ways we can take it, but I kind of want to start with sharing a little bit about this, isn't about evangelism directly, but just about sharing of your faith and how we do it. And so a personal wrestle that I've been having is in moments of conversation, when someone says something that is undeniably not in alignment with scripture, I've been wrestling with do I say something? You know, how do I navigate this conversation? I want to do it with gentleness and um kindness. Is this the right time? Is this my position? You just have all these questions in the spur of a moment. And so oftentimes when I'm not sure how to approach it, I end up not saying it. But then afterwards, I'm like, should I have said something? You know? And so in those moments, though, I'm still like, okay, Holy Spirit, like, give me wisdom. And even afterward, I'm like confiding in God. Like, okay, how as I'm still in communication with this person that I had a conversation with, how can I circle back around with this? Or like, Lord, present an opportunity to me where we can address this? Um, and I don't want to be passive aggressive with it either. That's the other thing, too. Like, you can kind of address something indirectly, but then that comes across as very passive aggressive. And I don't like that.
SPEAKER_02No. So can yeah so question for you. Do you think that you have the apprehension, apprehensions that you feel in that moment, are they different when you're in conversation with a believer versus a non-believer? A thousand percent. Are you more inclined to um to vocalize the um, I don't want to say correction, that sounds too harsh, but vocalize your your thoughts with somebody who is a believer?
SPEAKER_01I think more than the fact that they're a believer or non-believer, I hinge more on my relationship with that person. Like how much trust capital you have. Yes. And so that's smart. If I mean, and I think also just what comes naturally, right? Um, so for example, I I have a friend who's also a client. Um, and she listens to this sometimes. So maybe she'll hear this. But she was talking about um saging her house. She's a Christian. Um, I was very comfortable with telling her, like, don't do that. No, yeah. That's actually very counter to what people think it does. It actually attracts evil spirits.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And matter of fact, it's witchcraft.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01And I was very straight up in that way. And I have a really good relationship with her, and I know that she's a believer. And so I said that with a heart of knowing that she will receive it, knowing what my heart is for her. It wasn't to condemn her, it wasn't to be like, you're wrong for that, but it was from a place of like love. Um, and so I know that she knows that. And then I I I that's good discipleship. Yeah. And then following it up too. So I followed it up with like, okay, here's an article that you can read on this with some, it has some like scripture in that, right? Um, because the last thing I want to do, because this has happened before, the last thing I want to do is make someone is hurt someone.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, but the the the reality is there can be times when you say something with gentleness, with kindness, with respect, and it still hurts them because the truth is offensive.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so again, that's the balance. I have another person where I'm like, I don't have as good of a relationship with her, and she's not a believer. And so I've been constantly like thinking and just praying about like, Lord, present an opportunity, you know, in the way that um she believes in like the universe and um in the way that she meditates as she does. It makes my skin crawl every time she says it. I'm like, I wonder if my face is my face right right now. Like be act normal, act normal, but it's so hard. Yeah. So again, that's the wrestle that I have. Um, I don't know, how about for you? Because I know you have had conversations too where something is going against what we believe.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Just according to the Bible. I'm sure you've handled it in a multiple different ways, but like, I don't know, can you give me an example of a time with where you have said something and a time where like maybe you had to bite your tongue?
SPEAKER_02Well, I I don't know if I have those specific examples, but something that I keep thinking about and has been has been heavy on me, and I need to just reach out to this person who is very close to me and would be probably grateful for this. But I had a conversation not that long ago, and it was so casual. We're just like catching up, and this person is a full believer, and somebody I talked to about, you know, I talk about Jesus too often, and they had said, like, oh yeah, this is their karma. And then we just kept going with the conversation, and I felt the Holy Spirit be like, whoa, and not even in a way of like correct this person, but like, don't don't agree with that.
SPEAKER_01Okay, literally what I have okay, this specific conversation that I have with someone, this is exactly that. And so this is actually the root of my wrestle. And maybe this is coming from a selfish place, actually, that I need to check. It's I don't want to come into agreement with them uh saying something because um not saying something is also coming into agreement. Like what we tolerate is also coming into agreement. So that's been my wrestle, like selfishly, you know. Yeah. But also like, I want you to know, I want you to know the truth. It's both. So I've had another person, multiple people, not one person, that are Christian and they refer to their zodiac to explain their personality.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And those are I've had a time where I've said something, and then I've had times where I haven't said something.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So, like for this person with the whole karma, like it's it just it's funny how you could just drop it in casually, kind of skate past it. But in those moments where it's a like she just dropped a word and you guys moved on in conversation, it would be more awkward to be like, wait, what did you say? Yeah, like it would be very upset. Yeah. So it's like those types of things where I'm like, what do we say? How do we address it? How can we be?
SPEAKER_02I think sometimes the the world and the way in, you know, uh Paul says in Romans 2, do not be conformed by the ways of the world. Like we have been, whether we want to agree with it or not, or like understand it. If you weren't, if you're not consumed, I'm thinking about our friend and her children and how like the all day, every day that they're in in the word, not all day, but every day it's a point. But if if you're not from birth, you're there's gonna be some the world is gonna get to you. And there are those things like that word karma that seem like um not really a big deal. Like it seems like a just something that has been absorbed into the zeitgeist that we say and we understand. We know it, like the concept of it. But the truth is karma comes from Hinduism, and that's not that's not biblical. It's very anti-what we believe in the gospel, right? We actually don't get what we deserve. A hundred percent we don't, or we would be on the cross, exactly, and we're we're not, and we never have to.
SPEAKER_01It'd be the opposite, yeah. Praise God, we don't get what we deserve. Right. Karma is literally the osp the opposite.
SPEAKER_02And we know, and we can say this like scripture tells us the Lord fights for you, and vengeance is the Lord's, and like He handles all of it, and we don't get what we we deserve. We're gifted, yeah. In fact, and our our our works to is not what bring us blessings, yes. All the things that the kindness and sovereignty of the Lord does. Um, I was trying to think of like something else to take this in terms of like evangelism.
SPEAKER_01Um I lost it. Well, let's even start with defining evangelism. So because I think sometimes too because outside of the context of Christianity and what we believe, like again, when do you ever hear that word? So just want to bring clarity to even what the word evangelism um is derived from a Greek word, which I'm not gonna say because I'll mispronounce it, but it basically means good news, and so it means to proclaim as good news. And our good news is that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, he was raised on the third day. Um, he died and resurrected. Like that is the good news.
SPEAKER_02Um, so good news is karma doesn't exist.
SPEAKER_01The good news is Jesus paid it all. Yeah, the good news is that we live in freedom and victory. Yeah. When we when we confess and we proclaim that Jesus is our Lord and Savior.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01So that is the good news. The good news is that we don't have to carry the weight of our sin.
SPEAKER_02And similar to what we were talking about last episode, like, how do you keep that to yourself?
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01Oh that's thank you for that. Cause and and so I think that is why we wrestle when we have these moments in conversation where we feel like there's an opportunity to say something, or when set or when someone says something that is not in alignment with scripture, like we it's hard to keep it to yourself. Like when you see it wrong, it's hard to just let it go.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But again, that's the beautiful tension that we carry in constantly relying on the Holy Spirit and constantly relying on God to be careful that we're not acting out of our flesh, but that we are following the lead of the Holy Spirit, that there is wisdom that we have to practice. There is the right time to say it, there is a right way to say it. But making sure that when we don't say things, that it's not because of fear of man, right? But we're doing it because we are being obedient and trying to um be an example of what it looks like to live a Christian life and even how we conduct and carry ourselves. So I think it's okay to wait. And this has been hard for me. Because most times I want to say things right away.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it's hard not to. And like I think something that is I would believe that you feel similarly. And tell me if I'm wrong here, but I part of, I want to say part of the way that the way that the Lord designed me is something that feels very innate in me is this fierce loyalty to the people that I love. And um, sometimes it's not good and it and it gets me in trouble because I'm I'm that person that's like, you did something wrong to my friend, and my friend has forgiven you, and I'm like, I'm holding on to it. Yeah, I'm I'm more mad than they are. But I that type of loyalty extends to my creator, to my heavenly father. And when something feels um, when you see something that you know is incorrect or um is is not God honoring, yeah, I feel that type of loyalty of like, hey, what are you doing? You know, like stop this. And I think that in that in that case, in most cases, that comes with that comes from a place of discipleship, right? Because if the difference between discipleship, discipleship and evangelism is a discipleship, discipleship is developing a believer and evangelism is sharing the good news to somebody who doesn't know. Um that's a great distinction. The yeah, it should be, I guess we should feel less of that fear of man when it comes to discipleship. And may somebody should correct me if I'm wrong in this. This is like not the right theology, but we should feel less of that apprehension and fear of man when it comes to discipleship and maybe be a little bit more discerning and praying for and asking, even in the moment of like, is this a time to evangelize?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I think that's like really beautifully said, actually. And I think it's true. Um I think when it comes to evangelizing and how you're saying to be like more discerning in that way, I think that's part of the the tension and the wrestle that I have is being self-aware enough and being connected to the source, to the vine enough to recognize the difference of am I not saying something because it's fear of man, or am I not saying something because I'm so discerning to God's voice and I hear him saying wait. And so that is the tightrope that we walk on because I think it's like we our our flesh does it wants to be like don't miss an opportunity. But then our through some you know, discernment and spiritual maturity, we have to recognize that God is the one that gives the increase, God is the one that waters the seeds that we lay down. And we even talked about in prior episodes how you had said that like we're forever seed planters. So even in the moments of evangelizing, that when we plant seeds, we're not forcing a conversion.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I think that's so important for everybody.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're laying the seeds down to share the good news. We are sharing the good news. We're we're not like um don't try to strive so much and trying to convince someone of the truth. I think that is like a really I want to really emphasize that distinction when you're evangelizing. Cause I will say this just from my own personal um just perspective shift that I've had. I used to think that evangelizing is like, I'm gonna share the good news and I'm gonna get you to convert. Praise Jesus, right? But it's no, it's it's laying down the seeds and letting the truth and the good news be made known and having the faith and the confidence enough in the Holy Spirit that he will do a work within them and that the work that he started that he will also complete because that's what he does.
SPEAKER_02Part of the good news is that you aren't here to save anybody, and you can't save them. That's great. The burden isn't on you. There's somebody who can do it, will do it, has all the power and authority to do it. So the it's not on you too. The the listening to the convictions of the Holy Spirit of this is the moment to evangelize, this is the time to say something, is your obedience.
SPEAKER_01Okay, you literally took the words out of my mouth because in my mind, as you were talking, the word obedience kept echoing. And so, with whatever gifting that God has given us in his grace, we must be obedient to use that to give him the glory. Like we must be obedient to even use that in the way that the Holy Spirit will encourage us at times, you know. So even what you're talking about with like um your part of your design is being like just a fiercely loyal person, and it's like we can be a fiercely loyal person for the wrong thing. A hundred percent. We can be a fiercely loyal person for our faith, and now it's a beautiful thing, right? And so, but it's you're it's still the same ariana, yeah, you know, and so there are those um characteristics and attributes that you hold as in you as a person, we just have to make sure that we direct that in the right way, and the you know, we that it's being um geared towards the right thing, that's there, it's to glorify the kingdom, right? And so I have been thinking about Peter a lot and his personality, and so I feel like even before I dig into um Peter in the Bible, one of the first things that I think about is okay, Peter is the one that uh walked on the water with Jesus, yeah, Peter is the one that denied him three times. Um, Peter is the one that cut off um an ear, you know, by Jesus. He's also the one that got rebuked and Jesus told him to get behind me, Satan. Yeah. Like those are some of the standout moments that Peter has had. And so, I mean, for you, like what are some like personality traits, even that you think about for Peter?
SPEAKER_02I think you you just nailed it. Like he's bold, he's very bold to the point of um arrogance, though.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we've also heard, at least within our church community, Billy has talked about our pastor, that um Peter oftentimes was trying to do things like his way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so it's that boldness in him, though, that I I love so much. He's my favorite disciple, probably. Um, but God uses that in a very um, you see the shift as you go deeper into the old testament and how he walks out his faith. So I really want, I want to dig into this too. So deeper into the old testament or new testament? I'm sorry, did I say old? Deeper into the new testament. Thanks. So um let's talk about this. So Peter was the only disciple to step out on the water during the storm, right? In Matthew 14. So there's other disciples in the boat, but Peter is the one that calls out to Jesus and Jesus calls out to him.
SPEAKER_02Lord, if it's really you, yeah, tell me to come out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let's actually get there. So Matthew 14, I think we're verse 28. Is it not Matthew 14? Let's see. Okay. So Matthew 14. Let's rewind a little. I'm gonna start here in verse 26. When the disciples saw him, him being Jesus, walking on the sea, they were terrified and said. It is a ghost, and they cried out in fear. Verse 27. But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, Take heart, it is I, do not be afraid. And Peter answered him, Lord, if it is you, command me to walk to you on the water. And he said, Come. So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I just love that his answer is come. Like he's not like if you step out of the boat and you keep your eyes on me, and there's, you know, it's he's just like, then come.
SPEAKER_01He doesn't explain himself. Yeah. I feel like I see that with I've I've noticed that with Jesus in one other part here. We'll probably talk about, but how Jesus never over-explains himself. Yeah. So the simplicity of that command of come. So I had this thought when reading this. I'm like, okay, what do you think? Do you think Peter was the one to jump out of the boat? Because Jesus here is talking to all of them. Take heart, it is I, do not be afraid. And Peter was the only one that answered back, according to this um account in Matthew. Like, did Peter walk out of the boat because his faith was greater than everyone's, or is it because Peter was the most erratic and impulsive one to not think before he does?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think there's so many arguments for both of those. Yeah. We could easily say one or the other.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so I've never thought of that before, though. But as I was kind of like analyzing Peter's personality, I mean, I think it's both. I think Peter genuinely loved Jesus so much and genuinely had big, bold faith.
SPEAKER_02But look at how he uses his impulsivity. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Even if it's not that, oh, he was just so righteous and had so much faith in the Lord. Even if it is him just being like, I'm gonna do the thing that scares everybody, or I'm not gonna think a lot about this. How this he uses this not only in that moment, but for a lot of time, 2,000 years. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01To preach on this. Yeah. So I I I think it's I think it's both so I think Peter had erratic bold faith.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Which gives me a little bit of solace, right? I feel like I have erratic bold faith.
SPEAKER_01And that's what I'm getting like, and I think this is what gives us grace. Stories like this in the Bible, this is like God is so good because as you said, that thousands of years later, like we're still using this story to teach us and give us life lessons and to feed our faith. And look at Peter, the way that he had acted out in so many different ways, honestly, with good intention, but I don't like we've talked about before, like, good intention is not good enough. Okay, let's come on. Yeah, I don't think it means much. No, but but here and how still this is able to minister to us, regardless of his um impulsive tendencies, he still stepped out. And I think that this was still, if you want to call it right or wrong, I think this was still the right thing to do. If Jesus says, Come, let's go. Yeah. When Jesus says come, go. Yeah. And so without a thought. Without a thought. Where maybe the other disciples they heard Jesus say come, but they were analyzing and maybe even getting to the point of like wanting to understand fully before actually coming.
SPEAKER_02I that's Peter didn't think he just wanted human. That's so carnal because we want to be able to rationalize and justify everything in the in the way that our brains can, but our capacity is so small. And it just just listen to listen to the Lord. Yeah, you don't have to overthink.
SPEAKER_01And but like the flaw in the way that we could like, if we really want to again um pick apart Peter, the way that we can pick him apart and be like, he is again, he doesn't think before he does things. So now it's like let's swallow constantly, yeah, always like, can you think before you do or speak? He he's not known for that. And so let's even fast forward where it's like in um when Jesus is talking to Peter and saying that he he will have to go away, right? And and he Peter gets rebuked, and Jesus tells him, get behind me, Satan. So talking about intention, yeah. Peter's intention was like, I'm gonna protect you. Yeah, this will never happen. He says, Never, this will never happen. And Jesus replies and says, you know, get behind me, Satan. And so it's like, okay, well, Peter had good intentions, but but what's the next thing Jesus says?
SPEAKER_02He says, For your thoughts are not are on um are on man and not of those of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, that's so good. And so it's like we still have to recognize our position on it. I think that's a humility that we have to constantly take on, although like we have good intentions, we want to share our faith, we want to be bold and all those things, but let's also we have to pause and listen and recognize like who we are relative to the Son of God.
SPEAKER_02This you're ministering to me in real time because I just talked about that like fierce loyalty that I feel like is part of my divine design from the Lord, but like that Jesus' words there, like are my thoughts and is my heart on the things of man or myself, or is it on bringing glory to the Lord on the things of the Lord?
SPEAKER_01Yeah but you know what, like we're human, and I'm not saying this as an excuse, but we're constantly falling short. But in the way that God even uses Peter's divine design is what we see his personality coming out through action in so many different ways, we all need a Peter in our life.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like that that fierceness, that fierce loyalty. Like, I feel like I'm very much that friend too. Like, we all need a Peter in our life. Yeah, we need that. And when we fall short, and when we do mess up and when we step out of line, when we get rebuked, all those things, like God is so good that He is sovereign and He will make that right still. Um so to not be frozen in fear trying to analyze oh, we should have done that, we shouldn't have done that, I shouldn't have said that. But yeah, that's again the tension to still practice wisdom and all of that, knowing that.
SPEAKER_02Yes, there's I'm gonna I hope I'm not jumping too far ahead. But um, let me get to the verse. There's another verse in Matthew that Matthew 10, 14. I happen to have the NLT in my hand. So if any household or town refuses to welcome you or listen to your message, shake the dust from your feet as you leave. It's pretty clear too. Like we he in the last episode, you know, we we talked about come, follow, go. Come to Jesus, follow Jesus, go make disciples. Um, we have this like natural heart of like evangelizing, wanting to share the good news. Because if you know the good news, you want to tell people the good news, because it's the best news. But then exactly what you're saying, like it's not on us to change anything. Like, all the glory goes to God. God does the work, it's not even all the glory that goes to him, he does the work. We're just blessed enough to be used in his bigger plan in that moment. It really is a blessing to be used by the Lord in that way to plant a seed to evangelize. But very specifically, he also says, if they don't welcome you, just move on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And there is there is a teaching that comes with like dusting your feet off. And I can't remember exactly what it is, so you'll all have to forgive me.
SPEAKER_01Do you know it from the I think it's referring to like the judgment is gonna be coming anyway? They'll still be judged for it, dust the feet off type of thing. Um, yeah, I'm sure there's a deeper meaning to it.
SPEAKER_02I think it has something to do with like leaving the the the dust comes from that town or that place, and so you're leaving it there. But I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Well, and it's like they're um they're choosing to reject the gospel, yeah. So so just just move on. Yeah, dust it off and move on. They've re essentially yeah, rejected you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And in the same way, of like if if people like you know, blessed are those who are persecuted, like if people reject you just for your belief systems, don't have that fear of man, right? We fear God, yeah, and only God. And if somebody doesn't accept you because of your beliefs, does your feet off and go?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, that's a great reminder because I think as we wrestle with these moments and conversations with other people, I think the freedom that we could feel is through not fearing man. Because if you're constantly worried about like, how is this person gonna receive this? What is gonna happen? You're gonna be frozen and you won't ever make a move, you won't ever say anything. But if you could have that freedom and knowing, like, okay, I'm feeling the Holy Spirit convict me in this moment to say something and I will lay this down, I will plant the seed and not worry about how it's gonna be received because I'm I'm I'm in the way that Jesus tells Peter to come, I'm I'm coming, I'm going.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then you have to leave it at that. And there is complete freedom in that. Like, God, I know you will handle this. But again, the key is are you discerning? Are you listening? Are you doing it out of your flesh?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So when Peter spoke out of his flesh, he got rebuked by Jesus. And so I think that really is the key. So okay. Um, a couple other examples. So when you know Peter cuts the ear off, again, he had good intentions, but he acted too quickly. He acted too quickly.
SPEAKER_02Also, he cut the ear off a priest's servant, right? Like, what are you doing? You're just brandishing a weapon to brandish a weapon, like you're knitting a sword. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's like the um, it's like having zeal without full understanding.
SPEAKER_02Like swinging the sword, yeah. Just blindly swinging the sword, right?
SPEAKER_01Girl, isn't that me? Yeah, I mean, all of us like we get so excited about things, you know. I mean, like, can you just imagine Peter? Like, I wonder like how swift he moved, or just out of panic, how we you know, like that was a really heavy moment.
SPEAKER_02I can't imagine it being comical. Right, right. It's a little funny to think about. Yeah. And like, you'll never take any. Yeah. It got his ear.
SPEAKER_01Um, so even with how we're like, like Peter, you're a funny guy. You know, I wish we knew you during your time. One day though. Oh, I cannot wait. Yeah. And I I wonder if um, as a person, if Peter was self-aware at all with his tendencies and how we're saying, like, we could be this way and we can be that way, and we recognize that. I wonder if he was self-aware or just like completely ignorant and just like, you know, guns blazing all the time. Um, but I will say though, it is through his erratic behavior, it's clear how much he loved Jesus.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's clear how much faith he had in the way that he was the first to confess that Jesus is the Messiah, like you are the son of God.
SPEAKER_02That's there's something there too. I've been thinking about this as we've been talking, that what that we want, we're calling him, we're we're characterizing him as like maybe potentially being impulsive or erratic, bold, I think is really where like the word I would the safe word I would use.
SPEAKER_01All-encompassing, yeah. Peter is, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But he exactly that, that he was the first one of them to say, you are the Messiah. And that came with the boldness. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so again, God doesn't want to strip us of our uh personality traits that we have. He doesn't want to strip that from us. Like he will, he will, and he wants to use that. I I even love in John, in John 6, it says, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Yeah, like I mean, like, where else am I gonna go aside from being with you? Yes, you know, you you're like you're the way, you're the life. You're like where you have the eternal life. And so he recognized that even in the boldness in the way that you know, he confessed again that Jesus was the son of God. And so as we um kind of fast forward through the New Testament, so like we see Peter as he is being discipled and as he's walking with Jesus and the these moments that he has, even again, I don't want to skip past the part where like all that to say like he had good intentions, if you want to call it that, he also denies Jesus three times before he's crucified.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And in the way that even God uses that, and Peter goes on to write first and second Peter, and those are really books where Peter the the theme and the purpose of him writing that is to really encourage believers um that there's hope and enduring, that there's hope through the suffering and that salvation is eternal. Like how crazy! Like, and I'm like, what the Peter, I wanna I wanna how we sometimes say like pre-Jesus, post-Jesus, like pre-Kim when she was saved, and post-Kim when, you know, where like there's Peter walking with Jesus as a young, maybe a teenager, and then there's Peter who is after Pentecost like filled with the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_02I I'm thinking now, like, as we're talking through this, like just the way that um it had to have been the most amazing thing to walk this earth as one of Jesus' disciples with him, spend three years with him to see him in what he was doing. But the way that the cross changed everything for all of humanity to that that has to be such like he he was dis he's discipled, right, by Jesus and then by other people. So he develops in his faith. There is the day of Pentecost when everybody's what's like 3,000 people get saved and they're all filled with the Spirit.
SPEAKER_01I think, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But that feels like I'm sure that must have radically changed him in the same way that it radically changed me, it radically changed you and everybody else who follows Jesus today. Yeah. And I and imagine seeing it and witnessing it and having to be there firsthand. Like that, I can't imagine how quickly the like the transformation or metamorphosis would happen in somebody. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's like, well, what's what's changed where he even after denying Jesus, and then he goes on into Acts and he preaches so boldly at Pentecost to save thousands, like what changed? Like Peter was, I think, molded, and there was something that was forged within him going through those periods. Like, I can't imagine, oh my goodness, the burden and the weight that he had after realizing that he really denied Jesus.
SPEAKER_02That's it though. What changed? He denied Jesus three times. Jesus says, You're gonna deny me three times. He goes, I would never do that. Yeah. And then he goes and does it. Yeah. And then what does he do? He's welcomed back with open arms to the risen Messiah.
SPEAKER_01And God is so good where He even gives him opportunity for redemption.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's like you he had to go through that period of humbling trial. It was very this person that was so bold in all these different ways, he was humbled. That's also such a grace. And so, yeah, he was really forged through the fire in that way. I can't, and like you're talking about it, had to have been the greatest thing ever to be walking side by side with Jesus during his ministry on earth. But then also to watch Jesus get crucified, to be there and live in that time where, like he's dead, guys, you know, and then to even be there after he is resurrected. And then it's he's not dead, guys. Yeah, right. And so, like, Peter, so it's like, what, like, what was that transformation that happened within him, taking him from this young, young, young man with this erratic behavior with good intentions, erratic behavior. He goes through this fiery trial. Um, he failed so many times. Peter and his boldness failed so, so many times. Um, in the way that I mean, this will preach to us, like we've failed so many times. But the difference is that um he was filled with the spirit. He really got to the point, I think, of like fully yielding and like God, whatever it takes, you know, because he denied Jesus out of fear for his life, you know. Let's be honest. Like, I don't know if I would have acted differently, you know. And we even talked about before, like, um what if Peter didn't deny Jesus? They would have possibly killed him, stoned him to death, maybe, you know.
SPEAKER_02And then who, you know, where does the church go? Well, how the day of Pentecost, all those people that get saved, all the people that he reaches through preaching after he listened to the Great Commission, right?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02And Jesus said, You Simon, Simon Barjona, you are Peter, the rock that I build my church on, and the gates of hell of hell shall not prevail against you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So there's we we needed, I think Peter needed to go through that, through that humbling experience. He needed to be like, he literally Jesus say to him, like, sit down. And he still couldn't get it together. Yeah, he had to be like, you know, we all say, like, you have to go to your rock bottom. Mostly people find Jesus and like at the rock bottom. He had to get through his rock bottom to then come out on the other side with that humility and that full surrender to receive the spirit.
SPEAKER_01That's so good. And again, like just thinking about in the way that he denied Jesus, but in the way, again, that God creates opportunity for redemption. Because I can't imagine the burden that Peter would have had to go on living his life knowing that he denied Jesus. And if he had never had the opportunity to like um make that right, and not that like we create our own opportunities, that's not it. Like a God really presented this opportunity for him. And it goes on in Acts 5, 29, where now Peter, there's a shift, there's something that again was formed within him, and there's a shift where it says, and this is like when the the apostles are they're arrested and they're really being heavily persecuted. And what does Peter say this time? Verse 29, but Peter and the apostles answered, We must obey God rather than men.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness, because he knows the change.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01What a show.
SPEAKER_02The Lord has changed him.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so I feel like I kind of went off on a tangent here, as we're really wanting to talk about evangelism, you know, and just like sharing the good news. We're just talking about Peter, yeah, boldness in general. Exactly. And so I think that's the connection that I want to make in the way that Peter was so bold, and he goes on even after Pentecost to continue to spread the good news, to continue to evangelize without fear of men. He had to come out of a period of um feeling what it feels like to be so fearful of man to the point of his life that he was fearful of his life. He had to come out of that and experience that and get exposed to that. To then coming out of into Acts after Pentecost, realizing like that fear that I felt, that is nothing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I fear God alone. I do not fear man. I've I know what it feels like to fear man. I will never go back to that place ever again. And again, to the point of like martyrdom, you know, Peter then goes on to commit his entire life and lays it down for the Lord. Um, but so with evangelizing on a much, much, much smaller scale in our little conversations that we have for people, I really want to encourage people to recognize like, are you not saying something because you're fearful of man? Are you not saying something because you're truly being yielded to the Holy Spirit and being discerning with it being the right time and place? Um, or even are you trying to control those factors in the in the ways that we oftentimes try to control our environment and the outcomes of things? We have to be fully surrendered in that way. But also to be so rooted in the truth, to be so rooted to in Christ, in the way that Peter had to walk in um when he was walking with Jesus during that time, he had to um, in the way that he was discipled, we talked about discipleship on the last episode. He had to really be discipled in that way to come out on the other end in the Peter that we know after Acts and so on and so forth, where he writes first and second Peter. Um, so even as we are we have a heart to want to evangelize, we have a heart of wanting to. Share the good news, please do if you get an opportunity and you feel convicted to do so, even if you don't know that much, even if all you know is John 3:16, you know, if if you're feeling the nudge to like share that, do it. But we also want to encourage like the wisdom and like you know, you have to be rooted so that we can be discerning. And so, what this is making me think about too, um, and the way that you want to be discerning in how you evangelize and share the good news, to be discerning and even when someone is evangelizing to you. Yes, girl. And so when people are, and maybe this is again how we're saying discipleship and evangelism kind of hold hands, even if um you are risk, you're you are already saved, you are already a Christian and a Christ follower, to be discerning in how you receive the good news. And so, can we just talk about the the like crazy surge of um celebrities that have been proclaiming the name of Jesus in the last few years, maybe honestly in the last like three years, even less than that, six months, even since maybe even Charlie Kirk's passing. Yeah, how there's just been again such a like influx of that. Um I'm curious for those that are listening, even what you guys would think. So, I mean, like, feel free to send us a message. Give us all your thoughts. Right. Because this is so interesting to me. Like the number of celebrities that are saying, again, they're proclaiming that Jesus is Lord, yeah, yet their lives reflect something different. It I'm I'm so happy to hear the name of Jesus being spoken. But at the same time, I'm like, I pray that people that aren't rooted that they don't look to these celebrities that proclaim Jesus and see how their lives are being lived out loud in the public, and that they think that this is okay. This person says they love Jesus and they're doing X, Y, and Z, so that must be fine.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I have a couple thoughts real quick. I'm gonna um double tap on what you said about I love that they're proclaiming Jesus. I think it's never a bad thing to hear the name of Jesus. We know just saying that, just saying his name, saying Jesus is impactful and not impactful just like, oh, somebody might hear it and might think of it, but but there is power in his name. There is a resurrection in his name and just saying his name. So I think it there is always good to come from the name of Jesus being proclaimed, even if the person proclaiming it doesn't have the heart to do that. Isn't that if that isn't their intention, I still think there's gonna be good that comes from it. Also, I I don't know. I want to say, like maybe we don't give people enough credit or we give them too much credit because um if you have and the same with our the same with Jesus, we I think we don't give him enough credit at all, but um a saved person, a saved person who's being discipled. I can't like I I can't give you a recipe for this. Like I you're saved, you've you've accepted Jesus, you've surrendered your life to him, you're in the word, you're spending time with him, you're praying. I would like to say at that by that standard that you can't be fooled by a celebrity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I don't know, because what I I guess in the simplest way of what I want to say to to people is you don't follow celebrities, you don't follow other humans, you follow Jesus. Right. And if you maybe like you're new in your faith and you're just you're just beginning to learn things, hear this that even if you're new in your faith and there's always going to be somebody who knows more than you, you still at the end of the day, you follow Jesus. I don't care who is standing on what stage, how many awards they've won, what their title is, what their accolades are. Praise the name of Jesus. Thank him. Please live that godly lifestyle. You still don't follow them.
SPEAKER_01That is so, so, so good. Don't follow people. Yes, because I think that's kind of the concern that I have is in the way that people fan out over celebrities, and now the celebrity is proclaiming Jesus, and now they're following this person that's saying that they love Jesus as if that person is the way. Like now I'm gonna follow how this person, the celebrity, is living out their life, and I'm gonna follow their ways as if what they do is condoning to like setting the standard ruler, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Christianity. Yeah, a human is never your ruler for Christianity, not even your preacher, not even Philip Anthony Mitchell.
SPEAKER_01Right. And so it's like in the way that it is a good thing that they were proclaiming Jesus, but what we need to do, especially if you're like in the front end of your walk, like if you're a newer follower of Jesus, what you need to do is be encouraged by that that people are proclaiming Jesus, but always go back to the source, always go back to the Bible, always back it up with scripture and verses. Don't go off of what people says, what people say. Because even for us, like as we were talking earlier, before we hit record, we had to even talk about like how there's so much good Christian um media out there now in terms of entertainment, right? That we have to even be discerning of like, is it was that someone taking creative liberty in that episode, or is that in the Bible, or is that is that fictional? And so we even have to remember to go back to the source constantly. And so I think where my heart sometimes um feels, I don't know, burdened and maybe concerned is I feel like not to say that we're so discerning, right? We are still learning, and I'm sure there's even to this day, I I mean, I pray this sometimes, like, Lord, if there's any lie that I believe in, like help me see the full truth, right? But I think where I feel concerned sometimes is like, are we really being discerning as as followers of Jesus? Like, or do we just eat up everything everyone feeds us? So to know, like we talked about in one of our groups together, like if we sat in a church service, let's say a new church, I don't know if we said this last episode. If we sat in a church that we never went to, and if we didn't look at even uh their website or their like proclamation of faith, what they believe in, would we be able to discern this is biblical or this is not biblical? But first, in order to even discern that, like we have to be in the word.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I feel so much my flesh was like, Yes, I can do that. Yeah, yeah. But then I like get behind me, Satan. That feels like my pride. Cause I mean, your the work on you is never done.
SPEAKER_01And and and to lead with curiosity, I think is so good. Because I will say, and even in the times where we're like we're unsure of something, we're oftentimes like, okay, where's where's that in the Bible? Let's find that in the Bible. Like, let's go directly to the source. And so when it comes from man to take it loosely, um, to lead with curiosity, to really do our best to be discerning and again to like recognize our the characteristics of God. Like, he won't make you feel fearful of something that is not of God.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, he won't make you feel condemned about something that is not of God. So there's even just like general uh rules that we could apply, even that will that's when the discernment kicks in. It's like I'm not 100% sure, but that just feels off.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You I I I truly believe, and I'm gonna say this just for my, I guess, opinion, that there discernment is only Holy Spirit. I would maybe this is too spiritual and say discernment is only spirit, period. Where are you rooted? Are you in the vine? Are you rooted in Christ? Your discernment is a gift from the Holy Spirit. That's wisdom that you're getting in the moment from the Holy Spirit. Intuition is nothing. You're a big dumb worm sheep as a human. I don't think intuition exists. You either have discernment from the Holy Spirit as a gift of being rooted in Christ, or you've got something not good leading you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's great. That's really great. Because how many times, too, are do you hear people like, my intuition is just no, um, Holy Spirit discernment is very different.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01I I want to read here in John 14, um, verse 16, and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, even the spirit of truth, whom the the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him, you know him, for he dwells with you and he will be in you. And so to remember that we that spirit of truth, um, one of the reasons why Jesus died on the cross, so that he could send us the helper. We have that, we can lean on him constantly. So, again, going back to what we're talking about in conversations when we have these moments, in that moment, like you don't necessarily like have to walk away and be like, um, I'm gonna be right back and go into a closet and pray and then come back. Like, you can in that moment pray like, okay, Lord, all right, Holy Spirit, what what can I say? What should I do?
SPEAKER_02I feel like I do that all the time, don't you? Yeah, like somebody's saying something and I can feel it getting a little a little far the other side of where I don't want to go. And I'm like, all right, Holy Spirit, here we go. Let's go. I need you. Tell me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Like, I think that is such a um underutilized gift. We all have that gift as followers of Jesus. In that moment, we can ask for help immediately.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think the the world has taught us to lean on your your experience and your intuition. And I'm telling you, it doesn't exist. Do not lean on your own understanding is the word of God.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Your intuition is uh it is a gift from the Holy Spirit, it is discernment, it is not you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and so it's like, I I will say as time passes, I am less apt to say something in the moment.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Again, depending on the situation, it's different. Every circumstance is different and individual, but I'm less apt to say something in the moment unless I have a strong conviction that I cannot hide from. Um, and I'm I've been feeling more convicted to like, can let what how you live your life be a reflection of of Jesus? Like, let how you live, um, disciple people and evangelize to people and show like what is it, what does it mean to live as if you know the good news? Um, like so live according to scripture, live according to his word. And at the same time, you want to make sure that you're growing in knowledge. It's not just like, oh, um, let's make all the morally sound decisions and um be buttoned up Christians and you know, be a certain way. But it's like, no, you also need to grow in knowledge, um be in the word, be in prayer, call on the help of the Holy Spirit. Um, in Matthew 5, it says, let your light shine before others. And I think even that speaks volumes. How you live speaks.
SPEAKER_02It it is. It's the way you the way people are gonna watch you, I think, extra close when they know you're a Christian. Because they're looking for you to slip up. And I'm not saying that in a way of like, oh, be scared or or be fake, but I think that so many, most other belief systems believe that you earn your way into eternal life and to their idea of heaven.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_02Um, that is not true. I'm not just gonna say we don't believe that. I'm gonna tell you that's not true. We didn't earn it, we don't deserve it. It was a gift that we have been given. And so these good things that come, this like worldly perspective of what a Christian is or should be, is not because, oh, Jesus told me to. Oh, Jesus told me to. No, it is called the the fruits of the spirit that come from your your spiritual development from being discipled. The close, the more we keep referring to this, the more rooted you are in Christ. The fruits of the spirit are not things you're supposed to, okay. Now I have to be kind, gentle, patient, loving. It's something that grows from you. Yeah, you don't go to the store and go buy it, it has to be grown. Yes, that just comes out because you have the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I I think part of too what's helped me in this wrestle of like, what should I say in these moments, or like, oh, was that a missed opportunity? Is to recognize in humility that again, we're not the ones to convert. That is the Holy Spirit, and that we can't explain everything to people. It's not possible.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like it is not our job to over-explain. We're called to be witnesses. We are called to be witnesses. Yes, we are called to um disciple each other, to walk with each other, to not quench the spirit, even to share the good news if we have the opportunity and we're being convicted to, but that is different from like trying to over-explain something to someone and full out trying to win an argument.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, what does a witness do? It gives a first-person perspective of their testimony, yeah, of their experience. Yeah. We aren't called to be um defense attorneys, right? Or yeah, Jesus is our defense attorney. Yeah, yeah. Just witnesses.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Um, and I also don't want you guys to hear what we're not saying. Like, so we're we're we're not saying um don't try to go out and um there's just a fine line with taking speaking from a position of like I'm trying to convince you versus I'm I'm still gonna speak the truth.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, where what's bring where is the glory going?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02Where is are you trying to bring glory into yourself? Right. Are you looking for applause for yourself? Are you trying to glorify God? Right. Yeah. That's all I think anytime you find yourself in a a fork in the road, in a pickle, that's the question you ask to be like, I mean, can consult with your heavenly father, with your creator, pray, but ask yourself to check your heart posture. Do I want this? Do I want somebody to look at me a certain way like this? Do I want Christ to be glorified? Right.
SPEAKER_01And I think, like in moments when someone says something that is um not biblical, that your flesh may want to be like, that's not right, that's wrong. But like you're saying, if you have a heart posture of like, we want to give God glory, then in those moments when you do say something and you do have that conviction to kind of go a little bit deeper on whatever thought that they just said, um, that doing it with an attitude of submission and from a place of genuine care for their soul. Yeah. And not for the point of just being like that one thing you said is wrong and this is right. That's a great way to explain that, but so it's like I mean, like, and I'm saying that because I'm I'm guilty of it in my own flesh, in my mind, where if someone says something that is not true and is opposite from what I believe, I honestly I want to be like, uh, you're wrong, yeah, you know. But I mean, if you do that, what what part of that is saying I care for your soul? And rather than me trying to prove a point, what part of that is being submissive towards them and being like, hey, I have a genuine concern and for the health of your soul and your spiritual walk.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Do you want some sort of superiority for being for knowing something more correct than the person talking to you?
SPEAKER_01Right. And it's also another thing to act and say something out of fear with being like, oh my goodness, I don't want to come to agreement with what's gonna happen to me. What is God gonna you know? That's good. That's also like speaking from a place of fear and doing and defending from a place of fear, yeah. Which is which is not considering um the other. The fear of God. Yeah, yeah. The correct fear. Yeah. So I don't know. This was we we jumped around a lot, but I I wanted, we wanted to come on here and just really share some of our real life wrestles that we have as we are walking out our faith together. And um, this is part of the nature of our podcast, right? Like as we're going through it, like, how can we walk through it together? How can we equip each other? Um, we all fall short. Peter, our favorite disciple, I'll just say that, um, messed up so many times, was rebuked by Jesus himself, and not even just rebuked, he just called him Satan.
SPEAKER_02Um but Satan. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but the way that all those failures really planted seeds that produced the most beautiful fruit ever. Yeah. And um, in turn, his soul was saved, and that's worth everything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, just everything works out if you're surrendered to Christ and you seek him first. Let me tell you. Everything. I mean, genuinely, nothing else matters.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So oh, you have something.
SPEAKER_01Tell me. Well, I uh I wanted to share something out of First Peter, just from us talking about kind of, I guess, the start of Peter's discipleship with Jesus, how um, again, all those or the erratic behavior that we pointed out. I want to read this now through the lens of knowing this about Peter, right? First Peter 1, 6, it says, and if you could just see his his spiritual growth and hear his heart now, it says, In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold, that perishes though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. So that's so good.
SPEAKER_02That's so good. I need a new phrase.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Think about when Peter is speaking through personal experience, just grieved by various trials, grieved by the fact that he denied his Lord and Savior three times before he was crucified. But what's more precious than gold? That we could have we could praise and give glory and give honor at the revelation of Jesus, that we could have that revelation of knowing who he is and what he's done for us. That's to be praised.
SPEAKER_02That yes. Um recording that what a blessing it is and how thankful we are to be born into a family that told us who Jesus was. Yeah. Yeah. That's like, I mean, man, don't ever take that for granted. Right. And how incorrect you thought it was growing up.
SPEAKER_01And and whether you were born into a house that believed in Jesus or not, you were saved because again, you heard a message from someone somewhere. He chose you. And so let us be better at sharing the good news. Let us be better at discipling each other. Let us be better at being discerning in the moments with if God tells us to do something that we do it, and that we are not fearful of man.
SPEAKER_02The former sales leader in me wants to play a game. Okay. Do you want to play? Yes. Can we role play evangelizing? Okay. Let's go. Do you want to play the The evangelist or the other person? I don't know.
SPEAKER_01You pick.
SPEAKER_02I want you to be the evangelist. Okay.
SPEAKER_01That's the pressure. Let's see how this goes. I actually uh really hate role playing. Oh my gosh, I love it. Oh my gosh, I hate role playing. Because I'm like, it's never the same as the real thing.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it isn't, but it really does help. Okay. I mean, like, I spent most of my career making people do that. Yeah. Okay, let's go. Okay, so we'll just um usually we would go ring ring, but you're not calling me on the phone. So just like walk up to me. We're walking on the street. We're on park benches. Okay. And you can just come sit down next to me.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I guess um this is my favorite role playing. Um how's it going?
SPEAKER_02Good. Hi. How are you?
SPEAKER_01I see that you're reading a book. What are you reading?
SPEAKER_02Um it's see, it's harder for me because I'm like, what book am I reading? This is the Chronicles of Narnia.
SPEAKER_01Is this your first time reading that book? Yeah. Did you know that? This is so bad. This is not how I would, this is so not how I would do it in real life. I was gonna say, this is why I'm a whole horrible role player. I was gonna say, did you know there's lots of four shy away?
SPEAKER_02Did you know that Aslan is Christ?
SPEAKER_01I need I need a more I need a more mapped out scenario. Okay. Do you want to switch? Yeah, can we let's act like um let's act like we're both Christian. Okay. And that one of us is saying something that is not in alignment with the word. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Well, okay, same, same spots? Yeah. Okay. Oh my gosh, girl. I am just nothing is going my way right now. Mercury must be in retrograde. Mercury? What are you talking about, Mercury? Yeah, like something with the planets. I don't know, but when it happens, like everything is out of whack and nothing goes right. Okay.
SPEAKER_01So you're telling me that things are going out of whack because you feel like the planets are not. Can you elaborate what you mean by that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so um parts at sometimes Mercury, while it's in orbit, it appears that it's spinning backwards, and because of the energy from the Mercury and the universe, it does something to the magnetic field of the earth.
SPEAKER_01And it makes people crazy. So, you know, I normally wouldn't say this to anyone else, but because I know um I know you know my heart and I know you believe in God, I would feel weird if I didn't say anything right now.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01You know, all of that is um none of okay, this is where I might trip up. That I wouldn't say anything normally, and so I hope you receive this and just like see my heart in this. Yeah, I I know we're good. Tell me. But the reason why I have to say something is because all of that is very new agey. That I mean, are you a Christian?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I love Jesus. You've got this, keep going.
SPEAKER_01You're so good at this. The the Bible girl. You want to switch? Yeah, how would you want me to evangelize?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so same scenario? Same well, it's just a pickup off of the new age part. Okay, yeah. So um did so I'm sorry, you you're telling me that um there's something going on with the planets and it's making people act weird? Um, do you I I thought we we go to the same church, right? You believe in Jesus? I do believe in Jesus. Can you tell me anywhere in the Bible where Jesus puts any sort of thoughts on Mercury or any planets at all?
SPEAKER_01You know, I don't think I've ever read anything that has to do with that.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Well, I'm gonna tell you this because you know my heart and we're good friends, but that's not biblical. And Jesus doesn't want you talking about Mercury because God controls everything, not the universe. That takes away authority from him, right? He created everything, all of us, and and he gave us his one and only son to save us. So do not let the world confuse you and tell you that he is out of control in any regard. You feel like things are being weird. Girl, can I pray for you right now? Yeah, let's come again, let's stand together and come against this because God is for you. He said, No weapon formed against you shall prosper. That's so good. You know what?
SPEAKER_01I did not know any of that. I'm so glad you said something.
SPEAKER_02I got you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let's go to church. Okay, that's great. That honestly, that was so good. That was so good.
SPEAKER_02You know what the irony is? In the moment, if that was happening in real life, this is just because I've gotten good at role playing. Yeah. Because in the moment, you would be so good at that, and I would be like, uh, why are you saying that, dummy?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, honestly, that was so good. And if anything, I think that like role playing really is so healthy because it helps you play back real life scenarios and it does equip you. I will say me personally, I am so awkward with role playing, I get stuck.
SPEAKER_02I think most I just have been doing it for so many years. So I'm good at that. But that was so good.
SPEAKER_01I I think what to take away from that though, too, is that like letting the person know what your heart is. Cause I think the part that I'm always like cautious of is um, I want them to know that I'm not trying to talk down to them and I'm not trying to finger point. But I really love in this hypothetical situation how you pointed at um when you presented a question and even asked, like, where is it in the Bible? Like, is that something like you believe in Jesus? I don't know if that's something that Jesus would have said or done, you know? And this is actually this presents like a really good challenge for me because something that I've been really sitting on in this wrestle of what I'm talking about with like how to evangelize an even better disciple is knowing to ask the right questions. And so, as like as uncomfortable as role play can be for a lot of people, I think for me, I've practically speaking, one thing that I've been trying to do is to have like a set of questions that I could ask people in in any scenario. So even like um where in the Bible does it say that, or um something as simple as like, what do you believe in? Or um, where do you go to church? Even are you a part are you part of a group? Yeah, or um what what is your um devotional time? What does your devotional time look like? Or have you prayed about it, or has anyone prayed with you?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Are very good, like open-ended questions to go deeper into something that might lead to something else.
SPEAKER_02Um it's always good practice, and this is this what we preach in sales also. Yeah, but everything should be a question. We live in a world where everybody is assuming everything, and then unless you hear it plainly, you can't make the assumption. And asking people, asking people questions always makes them think more too. So, like, even if somebody ever says something sideways to me, I ask them to be like, what do you mean? Yeah, tell them say that what do you can you like elaborate on that? Because then they have to think about what they just said to me. And like, God bless my husband, I do this to him all the time. I'm like, tell me more about that when he says something that I don't like, or what do you mean by that? And then he has to think about, oh, what did I just say to her? Yeah, what it was that was that not okay, you know, who whatever it is. It just makes people think more. Then they people who aren't necessarily introspective have to become introspective. Right.
SPEAKER_01Because what you don't want to do is find yourself in an argument with someone, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Cause you can't just like it's not it's not good communication, yeah, it's not good evangelism, it's not good discipleship to just be like point, point, point, point. Like there comes a place for that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I mean, even thinking about like when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness for those 40 days and Satan was tempting him with these things and even presenting scripture, not once did Jesus try to overexplain anything. He wasn't ever trying to prove a point to him about anything. And so I mean, nowhere ever do you really feel like he does. No, he's not going back and forth with them. Yeah. And so to use that as an example and something that we could really aspire to be like. So, like, again, when someone says something that is going against your beliefs, it to be delicate to not find yourself now in an argument with them, to ask open-ended questions and to not be just trying to prove your point.
SPEAKER_02Never once was Jesus misunderstood, and he sat there and was like, okay, let me put it in another way. Okay, wait, if I just say it like this, maybe you'll get it. So let us know. I mean, like people, we're humans, don't use your own words, but when it comes from the truth, right? The the things of of the the word of God, biblical things, Jesus, what we know there, it doesn't matter if they don't understand you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, dust your feet.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, dust your feet. All right.
SPEAKER_01That was great. You want to pray for us? Yeah, okay. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. Lord, we just thank you for this time, Father God. We give you all the glory, Lord. We thank you that you give the increase. We thank you, Holy Spirit, that you are our helper. We thank you, Father God, that we don't have to have these conversations on our own, that we can lean on you, that you give us the wisdom, Father God. And we just thank you for um just opportunities where we can even speak about you, Lord, even when we don't get it right. I just pray, Lord, that um we will not have a fear of man, but that we could constantly keep our eyes on you, Lord, that we want to serve you well. We want to walk in obedience, Lord. And I know, Holy Spirit, that you will show up for us when we call on you, when we are needing that help, Lord, that your word even says that you will teach us what to say in that hour. So I ask you, Father God, that we can be people that could slow down, that we could be um slow to speak, ones to listen, that you will even give us the right questions to ask people. And I just ask you, Lord, that um that people could have the full truth fall over them. We ask you, spirit of truth, to open up our eyes, to give us the eyes to see and the ears to hear, that we can be ones that are discerning, Lord, and that we can sift out what is from the kingdom of darkness and what is from the kingdom of God, Lord. I ask you, Jesus, that um even as we can slow down in conversations, that we can even just slow down in the way that we live our life so that we can see you, that we could be sensitive to your voice, that we could be more rooted in you, um, that we can linger in your presence just a little bit longer, Father God, because what we do know is that we cannot do this um disconnected from the vine. We cannot do this without your help, Father. And I just ask you, Lord, that those that have questions, that you can provide them with the right people, with the right men and women of God in their lives, that you can illuminate your words as they read, that you can give us a better understanding, Lord. And that um you could even give us the direction, Lord, that you would be so kind to even use us, Lord. Um, we just thank you. We thank you, Holy Spirit, for your help. We thank you for being our teacher. We just thank you. We give you all the glory and all the praise, Father God, and all these things we pray in Jesus' name. Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_02Amen.