Through It
Through It is a Christian podcast hosted by Ariana and Kimberly - two women who love Jesus and have been through it. Join them for real, faith-filled conversations on how to talk through it, walk through it, pray through it, and get through it.
Through It
Intentions Aside
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We've heard the phrase, the road to hell is paved with good intentions but what does that reveal about the difference between motive and obedience. This week Ariana + Kimberly explore how sincere intentions are not enough on their own, and why wisdom, discernment, and faithful action matter in the life of a believer.
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I was gonna ask you, what is one good thing or a highlight of your week, or even a small thing, one good thing that happened this week?
SPEAKER_04Um, you know, I like love to talk. That's like my love language um is language. Yeah, it's it's words. Yeah. I um asked Frankie yesterday morning. I was like, can you just prepare yourself? Because I want to set aside a undetermined amount of time for prayer tonight for both of us. Uh-huh. And I said, we don't like we can just like riff. You pray, I pray, you pray, I pray, just like back and forth because he he usually usually starts our prayers and then I I finish them. But I always like we remember different things, right? And so it's going to be sparks things, stirs up different things, yeah. So um, what was my good thing from this week? We had a long night last night of prayer and then just talking in bed. I love that. And me trying to tell teach him how to manage up, how to manage his boss.
SPEAKER_00That's great. When you guys wind down at night, like during the work week, how do you guys wind down?
SPEAKER_04We we watch TV.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think that's pretty we have dinner together.
SPEAKER_04We're we're like pretty regimented with like yeah, we have our dinner together, we watch a show, and then we go to bed. What about you guys? Or what was your good thing this week?
SPEAKER_00Um, well, I'll I'll answer like what we do first. Um pretty much the same. It's like we put Kendrick down and then we'll sit on the couch, we'll turn on something. Are we watching it? Not necessarily, but we'll we'll turn on something, and then eventually I just get to the point of like, let's just turn this off, you know. Um are you talking instead of watching it? Honestly, a lot of times we're on our phone and we're talking back and forth. But I think last night's kind of fun. Yeah. I know, like we'll be sending reels to each other. Like this is how we just like unload the pressure of like having to be thinking about something too much. Or sometimes we'll be like talking about something very intentional, right? Um, but yesterday, so I told you we went to Red Robin and I was sitting there and I was texting something deep in thought over a text to someone. And so I'm like having to think. And I used to be someone that was so good at multitasking where I can be deep in thought thinking and like doing something else. I feel like I have lost that ability. Maybe I shouldn't say that. I do not like to do it anymore. I don't enjoy multitasking anymore. Um, although I can, I'll say. So I'm like texting something. Jordan's talking to me, and then we're in red robin, and it's not like loud noise, but it's constant noise. And I just had this moment where I put my phone down and I looked at Jordan. I'm like, do you know what it feels like to be overstimulated? Because I don't know if guys get like that as much as women, because we have all these thoughts constantly.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Making these micro decisions, even constantly. And I'm like, the best way I could describe it, it's like just before it like almost even makes my eyes squint. Like just before you're about to hit a headache, but you're not. Oh, that's really good. Yeah. Like it doesn't ever quite get to the point of a headache, but it's like the brink of it. It's a building of pressure. It's you're yes, exactly. And I'm like, I'm so overstimulated right now. It's so loud in here. He's like, it's not loud though. I'm like, it's not, but yeah, it's just a lot happening. It's a lot. I don't know how else to say it. It feels like a lot is happening. So all that to say at the end of the night, I just need to like unwind and not be so stimulated in my mind.
SPEAKER_04Like turn your brain off a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so just to unplug. But yesterday was one of those days where I couldn't even have the TV on. I'm like, let's just turn it off. I think I just need to sit in a dark room. Silence. Yeah. Or even just like read on paper and not on my phone.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Not looking at the light. Yeah. Yeah. That is that'll like cook my brain. I feel like. Yeah, it's just a lot happening at once. Even with scrolling, you don't realize how much information you're processing in such a short amount of time.
SPEAKER_04Isn't that our everyday life?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Everything is too fast-paced. We're not designed for that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we're not designed for it. And there are a lot of people who have figured out ways to get into our brain without us knowing that they're in our brain.
SPEAKER_00The subliminals. Yeah. Yeah. We're not designed for that. Which a little bit of that has we're gonna tie some of that into what we're talking about today. But a highlight for me this week, I think, was just maybe baseball practice yesterday with Kendrick, watching him catch the pop fly.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was like such a great moment of like, yeah, I'm gonna catch you again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was really and like just the look of um how proud of himself he was, but he'll still like try to be cool about it, you know?
SPEAKER_00Like he didn't have a big reaction to it. Everyone else did.
SPEAKER_04That's so interesting that like he wants to be cool about it. Do you think that that was that's and cool is like I know what you mean when you say that, but it's almost like he doesn't want to look arrogant.
SPEAKER_00He didn't want to overreact. Yeah. I actually don't know what that is because I don't know if it's for from the intention of like trying not to be arrogant, you know. Um, I don't know if that's on his mind because we're constantly trying to teach him what being humble is, which is really hard to explain to a six-year-old, honestly. For me. Um as much as he gets almost like I don't know, he's not a shy kid, but there's certain moments where he all of a sudden gets shy about it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's like a lot of attention on him at once.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So where he's almost like, yeah, don't look at me, don't look at me.
SPEAKER_00Or maybe even doesn't, or it's so much of an emotion that he doesn't know how to act. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It could also be kind of unsure on how to process it. Mm-hmm. I bet there's something there though, in in what you were saying, with like you're constantly teaching him about humility that has to linger. There has to be some of that that he feels. I hope so.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because there are certain times where he's like, for example, he got out of the bath the other day and his hair was like slicked back, and he got off the bath and looked in the mirror. He goes, Oh, I'm so handsome.
SPEAKER_01I thought that was really cute. It is really cute. Yeah, and then he named a girl's name. He's gonna, if he hears this, he's not gonna be happy. He named a girl's name. He goes, Oh, what if so-and-so saw me like this? I'm so handsome.
SPEAKER_03Kids are so cool. I know.
SPEAKER_01Man, I wish I had more of them around. Yeah, just like the sweet confidence, but again, in those moments of like what seems like humility, it's I don't know, they're so hot and cold.
SPEAKER_04There's just they're interesting too from like a psychological standpoint.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And then to see like what we pour into, how that forms him as a person, what is highlighted, or what is even like, you know, what we make him feel like condemned about, which I hope we don't do often, but like those little moments. I actually think that's one of the things that I think about a lot when I have a hard parenting moment. I'm always thinking, like, how is this gonna mark him as a kid? And how is this gonna mark him as a person? And so that's a I don't know, uh attention that I'm holding always, and you just never know. You never know. Yeah, I mean, I think you do a great job.
SPEAKER_04Thanks, girl. For real. Thank you. I just I think anytime a um a child can be happy and comfortable and hang out with adults. Yeah, it's such a testament to good parenting. Because think about how many kids you've been around and you're like, get this kid out of here. Like, or it's like in your face, like, watch this, watch this, watch this. Like, yeah, doesn't understand how to read the room, and then their parents are like just like doing this, like not actually doing anything. I know, I know.
SPEAKER_00And again, even that is a balance too, because I'm like, okay, let him be a kid, and then other times I'm like, okay, can you stop? No, stop. Look at me we're done being a kid now, yeah. Go over there, yeah. Okay, so today what we're gonna talk about is intentions. Welcome to Through It. Oh, with Kimberly. Hi, we're so comfortable here. We've been sitting here for a minute, so we forgot we're actually here for the podcast.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. The mic's been on for a long time, but um yeah, we're going to we're gonna talk about intention. I'll let you tell. Tell the people.
SPEAKER_00So I feel like something a lot of times when we think about a topic, it's of course because it's something that's either we've stumbled across it during the week, something that we've just been thinking about. And I feel like the last couple weeks, just this recurring theme of your intention doesn't really matter. But as we were thinking about this topic, at least for me, I'm like, well, intention does matter. But when there's a certain consequence, let's say a negative consequence, even if you have good intentions, doesn't really mean anything.
SPEAKER_04Well, then you know the saying is the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Yes. And I did not look that up. I'm interested to see where that came from. Let's see if I can find it right.
SPEAKER_00You know what's funny? I don't know if you noticed that. That's actually in my notes. It is? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I would I would have assumed so, but I didn't see it. Did you look it up?
SPEAKER_00Um I didn't look up where it came from, no. Let's see if I can find something. I'd be very curious if it even stems from like any kind of a religious context.
SPEAKER_04Commonly attributed to Saint Bernard of Clairvaux, Clairvaux, as hell is full of good wishes or desires. The exact phrase evolved over centuries, appearing in various forms before setting settling into its modern English version in the 19th century. So it comes from the 12th century. Um it was, I guess you could say biblically inspired.
SPEAKER_00Maybe I didn't put it in the notes. I definitely had that same thought though. So I love that you started with that.
SPEAKER_04And we have mentioned that on several episodes where we're like, we kind of feel uh not uneasy, but just like un not firm, I guess might be a good way for me to describe it. I don't feel in a firm way on what your intentions mean. I think that just like the saying says, with the road to hell is paved with good intentions, like you can have good intentions all day.
SPEAKER_00Even that is just making me laugh because it's like when someone does something that leads to a negative outcome, or even does something that is just straight out dumb. Let's, you know, be honest. And then they're like, Well, they had good intentions. I'm like, that literally means nothing to me. Yeah, that does not excuse, you know, the behavior of whatever it is.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so, even like, let's just say, here's a very like real life example. Um, those of you that are married or even just in a relationship, when your significant other, like your husband or your wife, says something or does something that maybe makes you feel bad or even just like causes harm, and they're like, Well, I didn't mean that. Okay, well, I still feel what I feel. So, where do we go from here? And typically where you go from there is like, I'm like, I would like an apology.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, an acknowledgement.
SPEAKER_00Acknowledgement.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Although, yes, I recognize that that was not your intention, but that does not negate um how it made me feel.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, there's this, I don't know what it, it's not necessarily a saying, but it was taught to me in a um therapeutic context of um you can't unbreak the plate. So you whether you put take a plate out of a cabinet and throw it on the ground and it breaks, or you have too many things in your hands and the plate falls off, uh falls out of your hands and breaks. The plate is still broken. Regardless of how it got broken, it's broken. You scrape you can't unbreak the plate. I love that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it's the sad thing too is like let's say that there's some sort of a trauma. Um, the sad thing is that let's say the person that caused the harm is even no longer in the picture, and now you're still here with this form of trauma. Now the responsibility falls on you with how you handle it too, which is the unfortunate part of it, you know. So it's like, let's say someone broke the plate and then they left, or they didn't even know they broke the plate. They didn't even know they broke the plate. Yeah, and then they left you with the pieces and so someone still has to clean it up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it really is like I don't know. This is pretty deep. It's a two-way street, ideally, but you can't control the other person either. You still have to clean it up at the end of the day. It's kind of like, well, here we are. What are we gonna do now?
SPEAKER_04I don't know if it makes anybody feel. I guess it could help somebody feel better to know that the intentions were quote unquote good behind the action, but in the same way of like what I was just saying with like the you can't unbreak the plate, like you're and what you were saying with like you can't negate your feelings, you still feel the thing, regardless. So whether or not somebody's intentions were good, you know, isn't to change the way you feel, maybe a little bit, right?
SPEAKER_00I think it depending on the the person's intentions, it does position like the recipient, I guess, to be more grace, gracious, right? So if there was like okay, like for example, um legally, if there's malicious intent, the consequence is different if it was like unintended, if it wasn't uh planned.
SPEAKER_04Um and even biblically, right? Because in in um, I think it's in Leviticus, in Levitical law, there is a different punishment for if somebody killed somebody and that person or murdered somebody, that person was known to have disliked the person they killed versus somebody who killed somebody and it was an accent, the manslayer, right? And that person would actually be um kind of taken care of. There were specific places land-wise that God had given for those people to live until basically whoever would have whoever would want that person dead is gone. Or I think until the priest dies, something like that.
SPEAKER_00It even reminds me of um sin is still sin, no matter if you're aware or unaware, but you're held to a different standard of if you know. So there's also that, right? Okay, so I'm gonna read this. I um something I had heard and then I ended up looking up, it's called the fallacy of good intentions, and it's broken down in three different ways. So the fallacy of good intentions, so unintended quant consequences. So here's like where good intentions like it doesn't always turn out good. And there's unintended consequences, so focusing only on the immediate goal while ignoring potential long-term. So even if in the moment you had good intentions, you still need to be aware of long-term consequences, right? Um, second, typically someone that's like, I have good intentions, you will lack perspective. So you're assuming that others share your views or that your approach is the only, the only correct one. And then lastly, ignoring reality, allowing personal biases or a need for justice to override practical action.
SPEAKER_04That need for justice is real, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And so even just like I think the point of what this is is saying that having good intentions isn't always um, it doesn't always serve people well. There, you have to think about um, like it says here, measured action. It's not just about what I want to do now because this is my intention and this is what I want the outcome to be. It is really saying that you have to pause, like there's a moment of pause that is required in kind of assessing versus just thinking about what you want in that moment with whatever your intention is. I even wonder what like the definition of intention. I'm gonna look that up.
SPEAKER_04Would you say that? I mean, I feel like I'm gonna answer my own question here. You kind of have to have the ability to have some sort of like um to to have some self-reflection to be able to think about any of these things. For sure. Self-awareness through yeah, your like what are the intentions and then what you just talked about with the unintended unten unintended unintended consequences, uh, lack of perspective and ignoring reality. So you don't have any self-awareness, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You're only thinking about you in that moment.
SPEAKER_04You can't do those things, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, that's a great point. It it's that's actually a really great point. If you're only focused on your own intentions, you're not thinking about all the other variables that could be surrounding it outside of your own intention. That's why I think that it doesn't matter to be like, well, I had that wasn't, I didn't mean that. Or that wasn't my intention. I didn't, I didn't intend, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. It's it's kind of ironic that the lack of self-awareness makes people full of self. That is ironic. Say that again. The lack of self-awareness makes you full of self.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_04You're only thinking about yourself. That's really good. It's why is it named that? It should be called like other people awareness.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's interesting. Kind of seems like an oxymoron type of thing. Yeah. Um also to consider this: what you intended to say, what the person interpreted you said, and what was actually said. So I want to kind of put this into like a real life. I don't know, like the number of times where I'll be talking to, I'll just say my husband, and we're talking about something, and I'll be like, Okay, it sounds like are you are you saying this? And he's like, What? No, I didn't, that's not what I meant. Or even I sent you a screenshot of a text that him and I had.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I was trying to ask him if this is how he would want it done. And he's like, Yeah, that's how I'd want it done. And he basically repeated back the same phrase, but even in that same phrase, we were interpreting that same phrase differently to the point of like, I'm like, okay, I'm so frustrated right now. This is not making any sense.
SPEAKER_04It's marriage. Yeah. So it's like, how do we know each other better than anybody else living on the planet? Spend all of our time together, and sometimes speak in different languages. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So it's like attentions aside, think about okay, yes, your own intention and what you're trying to say, but how can this be interpreted? Like, know your audience, they say. So, how can this be interpreted based on your audience and then what you're actually saying? I don't know. That's a very much, it is just like a self-awareness thing to be able to process all of that before you say, which is why it's probably a good thing to like be slow to speak and quick to listen.
SPEAKER_04I think that's exactly it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Be slow to speak and quick to listen. Listen to everything first and then speak.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Try to understand things, seek to understand. But even like with our podcasts, you know, like. We have good intentions. That's good. Right. But there are there will be times, and I'm sure there has been times. There is, I know for a fact, where we have said things incorrectly. And we still have good intentions. But then you have this good intention, and then you do something incorrectly with that good intention, right? You didn't get the good result from the good intention. And then you have to do something different after that. You have to learn. There has to be a learned behavior from that. There has to be, or a change of behavior. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And like you said, self-reflection.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And the we can say, and we can we can one take the correction. We can one admit fault. We can one say we did something incorrectly when we know that we can that we measure all of this not by human human thoughts and feelings. Yeah. Or um just like a person's own idea of something, but measured it by biblically.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that part right there. Because I was just thinking, we uh this is why we need the Holy Spirit to be constantly helping us. Like you said, to measure it biblically, like to measure our intentions against God's word. Because the number of times, like it says in the Bible, that the heart is deceitful, the number of times like our heart is feeling something, but when we measure it against the objective truth, against God's word, against the truth, the number of times where we can miss the mark and it's not in alignment. And I think that's where it's important to line your good intentions or a line, not even good intentions, line your intentions. Maybe not just call, be so quick to assume that your intentions are good. Just align your intentions up with the word of God because He is good, not necessarily your intentions.
SPEAKER_04Right. Like what that's that's even it. Like what is good, right? There's having to get to like the root or like the bottom of everything. Well, like my intentions were good. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Good could be that's subjective, yeah. Right. So good according to who.
SPEAKER_04Right. And then any form of like communication, removing all um subjectivity is how you can understand each other. Right? Like it, I mean, you can't in a marriage like take that all away.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04But taking anything, anything that can be described subjectively and making sure that there's added detail to make it objective, understood objectively.
SPEAKER_00Yes, regardless of who the audience is, right? And so what it sounds like what we're saying is intentions doesn't matter, but obedience counts. So obedience to God's word doesn't matter if you are thinking that you had good intentions, if it's not in alignment with God's word, and maybe his character, what the Holy Spirit is leading you to, or even um just God's commandments. So it's obedience that counts over intentions. And so going back to what you said in the beginning, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Um maybe we can say the road to heaven is paved with obedience. Yeah. Yeah. And the blood of Jesus. In the blood of Jesus. I'm thinking about times too, where let's say growing up, our parents had good intentions, but maybe miss the mark in the way that I have also. Um I'm just like thinking about discipline, for example. If I discipline Kendrick and my intention is so that I could um help guide him with certain learned behaviors so that he can grow up to be an adult that contributes to society, right? And an adult that grows up to love Jesus. But there are times when maybe I'm too reactive. And so although my intention is good, it's because I want to discipline you. But if I do it in a way that is um, I don't know, maybe it hurts his feelings. I gotta circle back around. It doesn't matter that my intention was good. I gotta circle back around and try to like model, I don't know, I don't know, like fruits of the spirit to be more patient, to be more gentle, to have more self-control, even with how I discipline him. Um there's lots of times where I understand people have had good intentions, but it just went so wrong.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think we see that probably every day. I know I've I've done the same thing often where I've had good intentions and things just kind of like blow up in my face.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And kind of the double standard too, when we make a mistake and we're like, oh well, I didn't mean that. But how we have a tendency to like judge ourselves by our intentions, but judge others by their actions. Yeah. You know, so that double standard that that we carry.
SPEAKER_04And so I mean, thank God that literally thank God, thank you, Jesus, that that we have so much grace that we can try to use our like quote unquote good intentions, fail. Right. And still just get up and be like, oh, I tried with my intentions again, Lord, and it was not the right thing. Please help me, please forgive me, guide my feet. Yeah. And he just does it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I really think though, like, I'm just thinking about how we we desire for our heart to really be in alignment with like what God wants us to do. I think that is our intention, and that is like a good thing, right? Um, but the the the tricky part is sometimes I don't know if what I want is what God wants for me. So even when it comes to like our podcast, like we're not trying to um strive per se, but we want to get it right. So, like, even the times, like you said, there's probably things that we have said that maybe is not people could have taken it out of context, regardless of our intention. But I think what's important is to always keep in mind, even with the intent, because we're not saying that it doesn't matter. So let's be clear with that. It does still matter. Um, but I think it's a good thing to feel the weightiness of constantly assessing that. I when it comes to God's word, especially, and us just having a podcast where we're talking about all things Jesus, I constantly feel that weight.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. It's it's the reverence that you have, right? Right, right. That there's a we revere God and his holiness and his authority. And with that comes the um not the want, but I guess maybe desire um to do it correctly, to honor him correctly.
SPEAKER_00And so, like, even as we're talking about this, and I feel like we're in live time tumbling these thoughts and kind of processing just this whole concept with intention, I'm finding myself pausing and thinking more and not just like going off at the mouth. Like, I'm really slowing down for this particular conversation, which I think is fitting. I don't know if it's because I just haven't quite figured out. I don't know what to say.
SPEAKER_04But it's making me think like, what does the Lord want us to hear from this?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But I'm really in again, like right now as we're talking, I'm like really slowing down before I'm even saying anything. And I feel like that is what we should carry in all the other parts of our life to really slow down before we act and before we do. And so I've even talked about, I don't know if on the podcast or even just like in our Bible study, how I have such a such a tendency to like rush through things. And in the the rushing through and just um trying to get things done, although that could be my intent. Like I just want to get it done.
SPEAKER_04Um, how much we miss, like how many times we miss the mark because we're trying to rush, or what details we miss that we sh that we were meant to see because we're trying to rush.
SPEAKER_00And in the in the rushing, even missing the discernment.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, the exactly the discernment.
SPEAKER_00Because it's in the slowing down where you could actually hear the Holy Spirit nudging you and kind of whispering to you. But if you rush, you really miss those opportunities and you really miss those times when like God is trying to reveal something to you because you're so fixed on what you want to get done.
SPEAKER_04Um It's this feeling of like rushing is kind of this facade that tries to tell you that like you're in control of some sort of time that that you're not, and it's rushing comes from like do it better, do more, achieve like get more done, be more efficient. If if I'm faster and I'm more efficient, then I can continue to accomplish more things. And it's it's like a sense of idolatry, like self-idolatry.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sorry guys, I have Kendrick over here trying to grab his chocolate milk. Please don't spill. Are you taking that upstairs? Okay, I would like you to use two hands. Don't don't rush. Just walk really slow, okay? Not that slow, buddy. Yeah. I'm sorry, what was that? So, like, okay, we're talking about rushing and even just like um as you tell Kendrick to not rush. Yeah. Okay, yeah. Don't don't run up the stairs with that, please. I was I had this thought. I got coffee with a friend um a couple weeks ago, and um we're talking about how we have a tendency to rush, and and truly, like how it's such a demonic strategy. Like it's such a tactic of the enemy to get us to rush through things. So even when you think about, let's say, fast food, people, so the intent is like, okay, I want to get my food fast so I can go get more things done.
SPEAKER_04But like how the fast food industry I'm just so hungry that I need to eat right this second and I can't prep, I can't wait or prepare anything. Yeah. It's impatience too.
SPEAKER_00It is impatience, and it doesn't seem like inherently like a bad thing. But when you think about even just the fast food industry and like what it's done to like the health of this country is not good. Yeah. And then you even think about when people are rushing in traffic, how many of us joke about like almost lost my salvation in traffic earlier, you know? Um, people taking shortcuts and wanting fast results, and even just like rushing through your time in prayer, like how much we miss.
SPEAKER_04Or there it's so common for me to talk to people or see people who just like cannot sit down, like have to constantly be moving and doing something. Like, that's essentially to me, I think, like a form of rushing. You're still rushing, but like you're rushing to get through your day, you're rushing to get through life. Like, what's for what?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I guess I'm trying to like the through line here with like the rushing, slowing down, hearing God's voice, and learning to discern. Um, and even just with like your intention.
SPEAKER_04Well, God gave us a Sabbath. God practices the Sabbath, right? He rested and then told us to rest, told us when to work and when to rest and how to rest. And I think like in in the through line between like rushing, resting intentions is the more you rush, the more you miss details, right? Spiritual or natural. Yeah. The more you think about yourself when you're rushing. How what do you need to do? What's your next thing, right? Even if you're thinking about other people, like you have a family, right? So you you're still you're more caught up in what you're doing and what you need to do. That it doesn't give you time and space to hear God, see God, feel God, spend time with God. I saw a C. S. Lewis quote that said, like, if you want to avoid God, avoid solitude, avoid silence. And there was there was more of them that say that that somebody we know posted that actually. But it's the same thing as like, I'm trying really hard to like wrap it into the intention piece, but I'm what I'm saying is you're you'll have less details of your quote unquote good intentions. You won't be able to think through your intentions completely in order to know if they're really good, to measure them biblically, if you're constantly rushing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And and part of that too is like let's say you're in a situation where it's like, okay, there was a negative outcome from it, although you had good intentions. So talking about like seeing it all the way through, like if you truly have good intentions, it has to come from a place of like measuring it against God's word, like we said. Like if you truly have a pure heart in the way that you have good intention and you have pure heart, then even if there's a negative outcome in the purity of heart, you will take it to that person again with your so-called good intention and try to make it right according to God's word. So it's not just about having the good intention on the front end, it's all the way through to the end, like to the completion.
SPEAKER_04I don't know if this is right, if this is correct, but I would argue that having good intentions and having a pure heart are not the same. And that you can have good intentions without having a pure heart. And I don't know that you have good intentions if you have a pure heart, right? Because your heart is just pure.
SPEAKER_00No, that's really that's really interesting. I think when we use the word good, we have to make sure that we're measuring it against God's word and not just our feeling and emotion of good. I think that is the key there that kind of connects it. Because nothing is good unless it is from God and everything good comes from above.
SPEAKER_04Do you so do you mean in that sense, would we be able to to um substitute the word uh in good intentions as godly intentions, biblical intentions?
SPEAKER_00That's great. So when we say godly intentions, biblical intentions, another word for that is obedience.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So obedient, obedient, are you obedient to God's word?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It almost makes me feel like do good intentions even exist then? I mean, does good exist? I mean, let's just keep going. Yeah, because it really just makes me feel like does good intentions even exist? Because if it's if it's not in alignment with what God is telling us, yeah, then it's just not good.
SPEAKER_04I'm I have a hard time with intentions, genuine, genuinely. Like I and not like myself, like I have a hard time intending things. Like if it even matters. With yes, with really truly understanding, like, does it mean anything? Is it something that maybe just the world has come up with and that has like floated around in the world that we use that really like does God care about your intentions? Like, I know that he meets us where we're at and he knows our heart and he judges us on our heart, right? But I don't think you can have good intentions for your whole life and never know Jesus once, not even a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And that's why they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
SPEAKER_00Because what matters is the action. So if we just intentions aside, heart posture, emotions, feelings aside, and we just isolate the action itself, what is that action gonna speak? And so it's the action itself that is gonna be judged. So even when I look at, let's see, Matthew 21, the parable of the two sons. I'm gonna read just a few verses here. It says in verse 28, what do you think? A man had two sons. He went to the first and said, Son, go and work in the vineyard today. And he answered, I will not. But afterward, he changed his mind and went. So this son, the first son, says, He will not go and work, but afterward he changed his mind and then he went and he worked. And so, verse 30, and he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, I go, sir, but did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father? So the second son said that he will and he ended up not. So he had the intention of doing it, but he ended up not. And then the first son, he didn't, but he ended up doing it. So there was like a point of maybe um submission, repentance, and submission. He turned it around, right? And so when that verse says, like, which of the two did the will of his father, it wasn't the one that had the intent uh and desire of doing it first. It was the one that showed action and really showed up and ended up doing it.
SPEAKER_04Well, and I want to say was honest.
SPEAKER_00So there's different things there that we can pull from that. But I I I really do think though, like just isolating the action itself, intent aside. So kind of going back to what you're saying, it's like, does your intention actually matter? But then again, and so this is the like the um very circular conversation that we're having. Like we're kind of going around because it's another thing to do and have your heart not be in alignment with it. Now you're being a hypocrite.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_00And so, like, what we need is we need the intention and we need God's word. We need both to be in alignment. So your heart, like pure heart, your heart and clean hands, the doing. So you need the intention and the act, but they both they both have to be in alignment with God's word. So, like, what is your um your rule of measure? Like, what are you measuring it against? Like we're saying in the beginning. Like, how do you even define good? You can't define it on your own.
SPEAKER_04No, you can't. And because everybody's gonna have it, it's subjective, they're gonna have their own perspective of that. And I'm I'm tempted to say that once being saved, the fruit of the spirit replaces your quote unquote good intentions. Because in what you're saying, we're like your intentions, you still have to have good intentions, you still have to act with good intentions. But I think that maybe that maybe we've just said it too many times over the last couple hours. I know, but it's just kind of it, I don't know, it's blending. Changing it's the whatever it is. But if you are Holy Spirit filled, you are saved and following Christ, then you're you are showing the fruits of the spirit. So all of your intentions are good and godly. So there are you gonna fail still? Yes. Are there gonna be times where you think you're acting justly and righteously? When Peter told told Jesus, I will never let this happen to you after he says he's gonna die. And Jesus says, Get behind me, Satan. Peter had good intentions that they that were not godly, and he was put in his place.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No, that's really good because it's it's making me think here, how you're saying once you're saved and you have salvation, you have that fruit of the spirit, and you're you're now given the fruit of the spirit. So now you're equipped to do the things that God is calling you to do in the way that like we're called to carry your cross. We have to we have to kill the desires of the flesh and walk and step with the spirit. And so I feel like what I'm getting from this conversation, it's the question to ask ourselves is not like, well, did that person mean that? Or did I mean that? Or what was my intention? It's was was this obedient to Christ?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. That yes.
SPEAKER_00I think you just and then it's like, what is was this obedient to Christ? And then if it's no, okay, repentance, you got to turn it around. Yeah. So that means, like, let's think about all the things that we've had to repent for. Our intention was not to go against God per se, at least after being saved. But you have this realization later of like, oh my goodness, I fell so short in this situation. And then you have to repent, although that was not your intention. And so it's both, it's like a constant like my heart and my hands have to be in alignment on one accord with what the spirit is telling us. us and leading us to do and truly equipping us to do.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I well part of the fruits of the spirit is self-control. Being able to have self-control, to show self self-control. And patience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's it's just kind of like when you're Yeah. Intentions aren't the thing you think about. Maybe this is just my own perspective of it, but intentions are not the things I think about. Yeah. After focusing and or keeping my eyes fixed on Jesus.
SPEAKER_00The desire alone won't get the work done. The intention alone won't make things right. And I think if like I one of the things with our podcast is I really hope that there are lingering thoughts that people have after they're done listening to the episode. And so I think the moment of reflection to have is to not use your own intention as a cop out and as a way of an a way of excusing poor behavior or even hurt. Because I really do think that we use that as a crutch often it's like well I didn't mean that so they need to figure it out. I think that and I'm guilty of that you know I think that if we can carry a heart that is obedient to Christ and to constantly measure our actions against God's word that in order to like run the good race all the way to the finish line it's also to take ownership in the way that we have called we are called to um be peacemakers and not just constantly be settling for the status quo. If truly you have what we've been saying good intentions then with that you will carry the intent to to um crucify your flesh and swallow your pride.
SPEAKER_04Those are good intentions.
SPEAKER_00Yeah doing what God has called us doing what God has called us to do.
SPEAKER_04Yeah his way not your way there's so many different perspectives on this can when I think about it when we talk because like when you think about the way you just said like if if you do something and somebody takes it maybe incorrectly and you think well I had good intentions so they should figure it out or on the flip side of that if somebody does something you feel has wronged you and somebody else is telling you like well their intentions were good. Right? This is this is a back and forth of human to human of almost pride and offense. Right. And it's like one of those like snake eating it's tail things. Yeah. Where it's like it that's why I think I'm like whatever with the intention I could never we could throw the word away for forever but because it's throw the word away forever. I mean honestly what because it we can say there there's you can dissect it so many different ways. If I am saying the truth from God in a gentle way look somebody who doesn't want to hear it someone who has a heart and heart is going to be upset about it regardless. Right? So I could say if they get upset my intentions were good. Right. And I could leave it there. I don't need to baby them through their hard heart.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And then on the opposite if somebody offends me in the way they said something and like let's just say my husband's like oh well they didn't mean it they had good intentions it it's it's still like it should cause us both situations to again self-reflect and look into ourselves and like am I being obedient? Am I feeling the way God has called me to act or am I acting for my flesh?
SPEAKER_00I love the way that you laid that out and I think this is the reason why it really is like just kind of this ping pong back and forth with like I almost feel like in this conversation we're trying to measure like is good intentions good or bad? Like is it like it the the point is let's throw away that that whole phrase we don't need it. Because I think the more that I just walk out life the and even just like the more that I read God's word and just hear different testimonies, I'm just learning that there's never one way for anything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And and the way that you think it is is typically not the way that it actually is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah in the way that like we were talking to a friend of ours and um she had basically said through her advice, which her advice was uh pray and listen to the Holy Spirit but she was saying that if there's ever a time when you ask someone for advice and they basically give you like one definitive way of doing something, run as fast as you can in the opposite direction. And I I think that that rings true for this too because there like you said there's times when in your good intention that you say something and someone doesn't receive it like you threw your pearls to the swine and they'll trample it upon their feet under their feet, you know, like there's some times when you shouldn't waste your time. There's other times when you should go back and circle back around. And so there's not one way to this at the end of it all it just matters like are you being discerning and then so to bring it around with what we're talking about with rushing in order to be discerning what we have to do is make sure that we don't rush through things and rush through life that we're really slowing down and not slowing down for the sake of like in time let's move slow like I just told Kendrick like walk slow. I didn't actually literally mean like walk as slow as you can that just meant like be careful.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know I meant be careful and not rush so you're not getting sloppy and spilling chocolate milk on the carpet. But when we say like take your time what we really mean is move at the pace that you can where you can actually hear the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. You remember those bumper stickers it's like don't drive faster than your guardian angel can fly. I did say that like don't yeah I mean walk at the pace of Jesus like the only definitive thing in existence in life is that God is good is that he assumed a human body and he came here and paid a due for all of our sins that we would never be able to pay so that we could be with him for eternity. That is it. Outside of that open I mean I there there are things that we have a a firm grip on an open hand grip and then like a you know a a whatever but if that's where you hang your hat if you hang your hat on that Jesus is your Lord and Savior then every time you get offended somebody else gets offended somebody says the word or phrase good intentions comes up your eyes look up.
SPEAKER_00That's great.
SPEAKER_04It's obedience that matters your obedience to Christ that matters not necessarily your intention or someone else's intention And how do you find out what it is to be obedient how do you find out what his plan is how do you know what the blueprint is you gotta get in the word you blueprint you reminded me of something what were you we talked before we were recording and you said something about the blueprint I thought was so smart.
SPEAKER_00Um well we were thinking about the parable or it's not a parable um in Luke just the cost of discipleship um I'll just read this verse because this is what made me think of it. So it's Luke 14 starting from verse 28 it says for which of you desiring to build a tower does not first sit down and count the cost whether he has enough to complete it. And so I was just thinking about in terms of like okay desiring to build the tower like really your your wish your intention to build it doesn't really matter you first have to sit down and assess um and although this particular passage isn't referring to what I'm about to talk about but what it made me think about like when you're building something and how to build it and how many supplies you'll need like you first need to look at a blueprint. And so as we're going through life we need to constantly refer back to the blueprint of life which is God's word. Yeah the you building a house blindly is you and good intentions right without the blueprint the it's not gonna it won't be able to bear weight it won't stay up you may have like doors that open to nowhere stairwells that go up to just a wall things that don't make sense because you're just doing something from like your intentions yeah it makes me think about like so in life as we're building our own house house being just a metaphor for our life only God knows what that finished product is going to look like like he is Alpha and Omega. He is the only one with that vantage point.
SPEAKER_04He drew the blueprint.
SPEAKER_00He has the blueprint we're over here just piecing it together a little bit at a time and hopefully looking to him for direction with the next step because I don't want to use all of my supplies trying to build this house only to realize that these limited supplies are only to complete a very specific design of a house. You know like my vision for the house is different. So I just have to follow his instruction because again only he knows what the finished product looks like. And so I don't know the number of times that we try to do it our way although our intention is is good.
SPEAKER_04It just doesn't matter yeah sorry I don't know I don't know if that's harsh I hope that there's no um we say this often like this is not none of this is in a condemning way whatsoever.
SPEAKER_00If you are somebody that hangs on on good intentions okay I mean I'm not we're not saying that we're better than you for thinking of a different way we're holier than you for thinking of a different way or more righteous but um it's yeah I mean like whatever our intentions are like this is us trying to measure how we live biblically yeah we're really I feel like more than any other episode if I'm being honest this episode literally just feels like me processing out loud and trying to figure it out as we go in this conversation. And so all that to say like you guys are just on the other end of this mic hearing our thought process. Like you said our tumbling thoughts yeah just as we're tumbling these thoughts yeah going back and forth kind of bantering about this but I I really do even after this conversation I think as I just go about my day am going to I think maybe in whenever I get into a disagreement with someone next to really consider what my intentions are and am I taking every thought captive for it to be obedient to Christ because that's the whole point of that verse. I feel like sometimes people forget that second half like to have to be obedient to Christ. We're just trying to take thoughts captive. But no the whole point of that is to pull those thoughts down and lay it back down at the feet of Jesus to make sure that it is alignment with what is obedience look like according to his word. Discipline that thought yeah yeah that is we have a lot of other bullet points here in in the ways that intention really um can fall short like you know certain people that go into certain new age practices other religions if you want to call it that other spiritual practices and how wrong that could go although they have so-called good intentions or even like people that could be overly religious um just poor methods and and poor points of execution although the intention is good I'm like we really just got to God what do you want us to do for real cause I think all of these the the all that we're what we're talking about here where it's like new age practice or overly like religious and traditional practice or anything of like this you know people who are who practice new age they think they're helping people they think they're helping themselves like they're not trying to hurt people or trying to heal or whatever you want to call it trying to heal it doesn't matter like it doesn't matter and I think looking at it from that perspective it's like I don't know I'm just gonna keep saying like throw the word away it does it it doesn't matter I don't well I don't care what your intentions are your intentions are should be to wake up and follow Jesus and I'm I'm speaking to myself nobody else like wake up follow Jesus and let him figure out the rest. I'm thinking about that psalm 119105 that says um thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light into my path just we to just think about the next step and for to ask God just to light your next step. I don't know what it is it actually doesn't even matter what I want um just to be that surrendered and yielded to his plan to for God to light our next step to be a lamp into our feet.
SPEAKER_04Yeah like you're tired because you're trying to do God's job and you're trying to know everything and figure things out and read other people's intentions it you don't have to yeah look he he told us what to do and what not to do if only we could be that locked in on God yeah you know for our gaze to really be that locked in yeah it it sounds it's one of those things of like it's easier said than done. Yeah as I think most things that we talk about. Yeah because we we speak with a lot of conviction I had to struggle with all of it myself every day. I have the same conversations of like you know of asking for forgiveness and having to repent because I try to do God's job because I try to do to control things my way instead of surrendering them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah no I think this is a good just a lingering thought to hold on to I feel like we talked about a lot with no like I don't know usually when we get to the end there's like a definitive like this is it. I feel like this is going to be very open-ended um just to continue to just think about this and to continuously assess your heart ask God to search your heart um yeah I want to just leave this open ended honestly love it because it's like there's no way to to finish it there is there's no conclusion here.
SPEAKER_04Yeah yeah I don't know I don't have any other thoughts keep talking about this with other people talk to us about it tell us what you think I have a a difficult time thinking in gray I tend to be very black or very white because um I like absolute yeah it brings clarity that's why it tricks myself into thinking that I'm safe yeah that I know something so eve even in just this whole conversation it's like I say something and I tangented a few times yeah but it's like I say something I contradict myself I say something I contradicts you know what I do that all the time I I feel like I've even mentioned this to you I do that so much where I'm like I hope people don't think that I'm like being untruthful.
SPEAKER_00I'm not just saying this to you but I've never caught that yeah and the way that we get in our own head about it though you know because it's true that there's just no one way to something because we just don't know the number of times that I've been um like earlier we were talking about a certain podcaster like she's so dogmatic and I feel like I have a tendency to be like that too like I'm so passionate about the the the way that I think and so even when I'm wrong I'm passionately wrong until I'm corrected. Yeah and then I'm like oh okay and then I'll swing the other direction. So I feel like I'm the same way where I don't have much gray area I'm like either all the way yes or like all the way no and so even again with this intention thing I'm like it's pretty open ended but all this to say like my swing all the way one way is like it doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_04Well that my swing is like it doesn't exist. Yeah wiping out of dictionaries the word doesn't even exist anymore. Yeah that's how that's my black and white in real time. That's really good. Not only can I not put this in a box define it or give you the end all be all on it it has to not exist because I can't do that.
SPEAKER_00I think though truly that's what it means to crucify our flesh because get it out the house what your flesh yeah burn it up like because your flesh is really what your own desire is yes and we can design whatever your entire is yeah yeah and so to like completely crucify your flesh it doesn't matter what you want it doesn't matter what your intention is Lord I want what you want that's it period I want what you want I don't want anything that is not from you and I think in the in the moment when we get things that are not what we anticipate it can be tough in the moment but I think overall it's a really really freeing place to live right yeah it's not our weight to carry. Yeah and like how much freedom is in that to recognize that it's not a cop out at all. It's actually very hard to constantly surrender your own desire.
SPEAKER_04Yeah and I I heard um Ryan Miller say that the only thing we will be able to do on earth this side of heaven is praise through a struggle. Yeah yeah I read that yeah that we won't we won't be able to do it in heaven and we should take advantage of that by being able to do that as often as we can here praise through the struggle the struggle is what brings you closer the struggle is what grows intimacy and the bond the struggle lets you know your creator your heavenly father better it's building of character yeah we won't have that on the other side of eternity we have arrived yeah yeah so yeah shoot us your thoughts guys um and we typically will put this out on an Instagram post if you have any prayer requests we would love to pray for you I know a lot of people that listen are typically our friends and I think in conversation it kind of comes up naturally already like this is what I'm going through.
SPEAKER_00But if there's any of you that we don't know on a more personal level or just don't see in person, send us a message. We would love to pray for you if even if you have any further thoughts as I'm sure that Ari and I will also have um after this in terms of um crucifying our flesh and that really our intention doesn't matter. I like how we change it from like good intentions to like it doesn't matter. It doesn't even exist. Yeah. We would love to hear from you guys even if there's a topic that you um would like to just hear us answer about.
SPEAKER_04If there's something you guys want us to talk about all five of you your loyal listeners that love you so much. Yeah. Why you guys all coffee one day but if there's something specific that you would like to hear us talk about like you could tell us plumbing and we will find a way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah all kinds of tangents like what is blocking your spiritual growth is it demonic because you use a snake to unclog that's so funny we can make that into a whole thing too actually that could be an episode of like what is like hindering your growth what is clogging you up yeah spiritual constipation that's great I mean that's a whole nother we maybe cheat yeah see you next week as we talk about spiritual constipation guys and how to flush it out thank you this was so fun okay cool let's uh wrap it up in prayer Kendrick has a baseball game at 3 30 and we're gonna go watch that these kids play it's kind of impressive honestly that they know like the plays now and they know their positions it's not like T ball where they all swarm to the ball doesn't matter if like you're fielding or if you're batting everyone swarms to the ball. Um but it's different this year. So yeah, is it my turn to pray? All right. Thank you, Heavenly Father, Lord. Thank you, Jesus. We just thank you, Jesus, for all that you are, Father. And I just ask you, Lord, as um people tune into this podcast, that they can just see you, that these conversations constantly point back to you, Father God. And so we just thank you for your goodness and your mercy. I ask you, Holy Spirit, that even in the simplicity of today's conversation, Lord, that you would just anoint it and that um your words will land on um people's hearts, Lord, that we can experience your love in a newer way, in a fresh way. We just pray for a fresh wind to come through people, Lord. And Holy Spirit, we thank you for your help. We thank you that you intercede for us. We thank you that you are our advocate. And we just ask you, Lord, to um teach us to carry our cross, Lord, uh, crucify our flesh and our own desires, Father God. Give us a the clarity and discernment in conversations and circumstances, Father God, to even do away with what we think is a so-called good intention, Father God. But we just take every thought captive so that it is obedient to you, Christ. Um, we ask you, Father God, to just align our conversations and the way that we walk out life in a way that just um honors you. And so we just thank you, Father. We pray for peace over the people that are listening. We pray for spiritual growth over all of us. Um speak to us, Lord, and teach us to slow down to discern your voice, Father God. And we just thank you. We give you all the glory and all the praise, Lord. In your mighty name we pray. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. In Jesus' name.