Through It
Through It is a Christian podcast hosted by Ariana and Kimberly - two women who love Jesus and have been through it. Join them for real, faith-filled conversations on how to talk through it, walk through it, pray through it, and get through it.
Through It
HE Loved Us First
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The well-known—and often misunderstood—command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” How do we love others in a world that feels increasingly divided, distracted, and transactional? Join Ariana + Kimberly as they talk Through It.
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So last night I told you how I randomly woke up in the middle of the night. Um, it was so weird. It was not at all. I mean, I I hope not. Like for you and jeez, I was not paying attention, but it wasn't one of those nights where it was like, get up and pray. Okay, okay. I was just up. And it was, this is so weird. I'll probably have to cut this out. The TV was on, and I gain no in the bedroom. I like gain consciousness. Okay. And immediately there's two men talking. And I'm in my head, I'm like, that's the devil. That is the devil. So then I'm like, I like sit up and look at what's going on on the TV. Okay. And my speaking of my convictions aren't your convictions. My husband likes to watch crazy shows.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh. Before bed or in general?
SPEAKER_01In general. That he only watches when I'm not here or I'm asleep. And I and then I got like sucked into the show. It was on the eighth episode. I have never heard of it. I didn't know what it I literally came in the middle towards the end of the season just because I happened to have woken up. But that was the first thought I thought. I'm like, that is the devil talking.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then I start watching it, like I'm kind of interested. Uh Frankie wakes up and goes to turn the TV off. And I was like, no, don't turn it off. I'm awake. And he's like, well, then change it because I don't want to see what's going on. So I go, okay, I'll just I'll turn something else on. And I really just watch weird YouTube videos. Okay. That's all I watch. So I turned off whatever show he was watching and I put on a random YouTube video. I'm a fan of like travel videos. So it's this guy reviewing cruise lines. Okay. And he's reviewing, um, he goes on a one-star cruise and a five-star cruise and he compares them. And in the five-star cruise at the end of the his cruise there, um, to show, I guess, basically like the how the concierge works are really like the service, they'll do anything. He throws a party in his room, which his room is like probably the size of half my house. Oh. On his cruise ship. Okay. It's huge. And he even has a huge deck with a jacuzzi and like lounge stuff. It's the Ritz-Carlton cruise line, and he's in the like top of the line. The sleeve of it, yeah. Yeah. So he just invites random people to come to this party. Sounds like a horrible idea.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01Just people he meets on the ship. He's only there with just him and his mom. Just randomly meets him. And then at the end of the episode, when he's saying bye to everybody, it's he's filming himself handing it looks like currency, like money to everybody. And I'm like, is this like a different country's money? I didn't really know. And then he says, at the end of the party, I gave everybody this million-dollar bill that shares the gospel of Jesus Christ and explains how knowing Jesus is worth more than any amount of money. Wow. And it like brought me to tears. It was like, oh my gosh, like just I, you know, we say all the time there's no coincidences, no randomness. Just the way that I woke up and this like very secular show was on, and my first thought was like, that is the devil speaking. And then I put on the something I had never seen or heard of before with a man who was like proudly and boldly like evangelizing.
SPEAKER_03And that you just randomly pick that.
SPEAKER_01About cruise lines.
SPEAKER_03Okay, I'm like, you know how we are. I'm like, nothing's a coincidence. Yeah. I'm like, let's connect the dots of what's going on. Because I'm like, okay, what is it to think? Like you hear this voice, and it's like, this is the devil. And it's disguised as just like entertainment, just regular everyday things that no one would think anything of. And then for this guy to be evangelizing in the world. And even girl, I just caught myself when you're like this guy invites a bunch of people over. I'm like, that's a horrible idea. But you know what though? This is the world that we live in because it's like we're also lost. Yeah. And we, I don't know if we were recording when we said this, but like, what's the great commission?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like we need these, these things that I might have my first knee-jerk reaction to be like, this is horrible, but like people need the gospel. Yes. Like we need the good news because there is the voice of the enemy that we don't even recognize. Yeah. And people are so lost that they don't have that discernment. We need to go out and give them things like a million-dollar bills. Yeah. I need some of those. Yeah. Some of those bills. Crazy cool contrast of that. And like, I mean, that's the reality.
SPEAKER_01We live in a fallen world and we're not of this world. Well, and furthermore, just to further the point of like what you were saying, is the voice of the enemy doesn't sound like the way we see in like horror movies. Right. He doesn't have horns with a pitchfork. It's not even it's not blatantly evil. It's just just off, just off of what it should be. You know, of of what you think is okay, tolerable, or godly even. Almost right. Thank you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yes. It's the almost, it's even, you know, in the way that it even says, like, the enemy will come masquerading as an angel of light. Like it might even be really beautiful and tasteful until you have that discernment to be like, there's just one part that's off.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so leading into what we're talking about, well, I guess, hi, welcome. Welcome to through it. This is completely. Oh, well.
SPEAKER_03Okay. We're you guys know you've clicked on the through it link to listen to this episode.
SPEAKER_01You didn't find it by accident. Or maybe you didn't. If you did, welcome. That was Jesus. Yeah. Holy Spirit. Welcome. Welcome to you.
SPEAKER_03We welcome the Holy Spirit into this conversation.
SPEAKER_01Yes, amen. Yeah. So um I am not one for current events. I don't I don't tend to care about like things that are happening that are popular. Pop culture. Yeah. Actually, if everybody's talking about it, I don't want to hear anything about it. I don't want to know anything about it. I automatically makes me not want to like it. I don't know if that makes me a contrarian. I just think it makes me weary. I love that about you. Well, if if it's something that, look, I'm just gonna say it, Taylor Swift. If everybody, everybody has a crazy obsession with you, you're not Jesus. Yeah. Red flag.
SPEAKER_03I mean, with like trends and things like that. Every anything, everything, trends, anything where it seems like the crowd is like herding together in that way. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Like, uh what's going on there? Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna sit back and watch how this happens first. I'm gonna watch what plays out strange. Yeah, exactly. Masks, right? So in um even though I'm not one of like that, there is a Christian content creator, I don't want to say influencer, a Christian content creator that I was introduced to um several months ago, Niza Powers, who is everywhere right now. Like you I cannot be on social media without seeing people talk about him. And he exploded months ago because he was living his life as a woman. And Jesus, he had an encounter with Jesus and and felt that he needed to de-transition, start living as who he how God made him, and um living as a man. And he was documenting every day. So it was literally like this is day one of being a Christian. And when I had first encountered him, it was his day 50, and he was on the Jesus People podcast. And I was so inspired by this story because we we love transformation. Yeah, we love to see transformation in the name of Jesus. And and he became well very well known. Like he just exploded in popularity, and I would still watch things, like I wasn't seeking out his content, but he's around, you know, people are talking about him. And then I started seeing more videos of people being like, he's lying about things, and my heart started to hurt.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because I think I it hurts for me anytime. I don't know, where somebody is trying their best, I guess, like trying to walk upright, and people want to just go dig up everything from their past. We have past. Yeah, that is sad. And and we're told not to one look at them in shame or look back and remember them in fondness either. But what has happened recently is Nisa has finally come out and said that that he heard from Jesus that Jesus wants him to be a woman.
SPEAKER_04Oof.
SPEAKER_01And so he has transitioned back into living as a woman and is now making this um content as a Catholic who affirms transgender ideology. Um, and people are very, very, very angry. And I don't want, I don't want to get into the morality piece of this because we are this, it's too easy. It's a low-hanging fruit. We already know what it is.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We all know what what the Bible says about this, we know what our creator says about it. I don't want to get into that.
SPEAKER_03Not a morality issue, just what is the truth scripture say and what does it not say?
SPEAKER_01And so we can our feet are planted there firmly. Yes. You want to argue with us, take it, take it offline. Yeah. But I have seen so many people who have said such hurtful, ridiculous, crazy, mean things, calling him a grifter, um, saying just saying really terrible things. And it made me really want to sit back and talk with you about like what it is to, as a Christian, genuinely love your neighbor. Yeah. And how you do that in a way that is both be planted on the word of God, but still loving at as Jesus commanded us to love our neighbor as ourself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it being part of the, he said the greatest commands was to love your God with all your heart, soul, and might, and then love your neighbor as your as yourself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think that story is you're right. It is heartbreaking. I think whenever, no matter the context, whenever you see anyone being torn down by the internet, I think is always just a horrific thing for anyone to go through. I will say it's interesting too, like that we're talking about this because I had this thought earlier this week because I wasn't sure like what we'd be talking about today. But I had this thought of like normally, whatever it is, it's something that's been on my mind or my heart, and a lot of times that confirms that it's like Holy Spirit led. So it's crazy. I was just telling you before when I got here earlier that like I was just listening in to this conversation this morning.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because I haven't been tracking with the story as much. Although I did see like clips of Misa Powers on the Jesus People podcast, but just recently started like, and I didn't mean like recent as in like the last 48 hours. Like, I just started following Nisa Powers on social and then saw that you were also following him.
SPEAKER_01Oh, in the last 48 hours, you didn't know who he was before then?
SPEAKER_03I knew who he was from Ryan Miller because of that original interview, but I wasn't tracking in the way like my algorithm doesn't have much of Nisa Powers, but all of a sudden does. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. I mean, that's hello. Talk about no coincidence. I also think too, because I follow another account. Nate and Christy Johnson, they have um like a prophetic ministry, if you even want to call it that, but where they send out newsletters of just like prophecies and things and visions that they get. But they had invited Nisa Powers on social media um to be like, hey, everyone, tag him. We want him to see this, we want to fly him out here to Southern California and um walk with him for a whole week and just spend time with him and pray for him, even have like a deliverance, maybe, and all those things. I think that's actually why it like came back on my algorithm. But okay, this is actually a really I think I was gonna say a sensitive topic, but you guys didn't think it shouldn't be a sensitive topic. Yeah, because this is just like the word of God, this is like the truth. Yeah, but I think where it is sensitive is when you're dealing with people's emotions because you never want someone to be hurt by something you say, but I think that's where we have to talk about. Let's define what it really means to love your neighbor. If I pause you, will you be able to keep this thought?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay. Hold on one second. Testing. Hello, hello.
SPEAKER_03Okay, okay, we're on. We're on. Okay. Are we recording? And we're recording. Okay. Uh quick update. We had some technical difficulties. We're rolling with the punches, guys. We say this all the time. We're just here, not actually knowing what we're doing.
SPEAKER_01That was wild. There was no explanation for that because all of the settings are saved. And the last few times we had weird things happen, it was because the um the mixer itself, the knobs moved, but the knobs hadn't moved. And the settings were all saved. And all of a sudden, one of our and everything looked fine. One of our microphones just wouldn't pick up.
SPEAKER_03Interesting.
SPEAKER_01So if you I'm not, I'm gonna leave that opening because I think we were talking about great stuff. So if you've been listening and it sounded like Kim was far away, sorry.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, I don't know, maybe we got something good to say, and the enemy's like, no, you guys need to stop.
SPEAKER_00Probably.
SPEAKER_03Like, so let's just kind of pick up where we left off with the conversation. Um let's do you want to elaborate on what you think it means to love your neighbor?
SPEAKER_01That's a really good question because oh, it's one of those things that we've said so many times, we it kind of gets common. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03I almost feel like it's even what people say when they get offended by Christianity, and it's like you're called to love your neighbor. That's not very loving.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But I mean, people love to do that. Jesus said to love your neighbor. Oh my gosh, that gets under my skin. Do not quote Jesus if you don't know him. Yeah, not my Jesus.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, to love your neighbor like plainly, or would I put in the notes? Like the actual definition. I think plainly. So I would say loving anybody else from the perspective of if my I guess empathy. If I if I put myself in their shoes, how would I feel? Yeah. That feels like to me, loving somebody as yourself. It's like the golden rule, kind of. Yeah. Yeah. It is. I think that James calls it, what does he call it? The golden law.
SPEAKER_03Is it? The royal law. Depending on the version, I think. Um it's like one of those things that like the world is hijacked, but it's like, it's actually from the Bible guys.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It is. Um pretty much everything is.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But to love your neighbor as yourself, like putting them in, putting yourself in their perspective. And I think if we think about it in terms of NISA, it might be hard for some of us.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because we have a different perspective. I don't want to say different perspective of the world, but maybe a more more so of an eternity perspective. That we are so far removed from even being able to understand what that would be like to have those feelings. I know that something he was saying a lot of was like, um, he posts a video and says, I I can't keep um going on hating myself because it's not good for my walk with Christ. And I've like paused it. It Ryan Miller talks about that. Did you hear? I paused that and I was like, I told Frankie even the first time we heard it, I was like, that's interesting to me. Like hating yourself isn't good for your walk with Christ.
SPEAKER_03Wow. This makes me feel like a lot of things, actually. But the first thing is like, makes me think of sacrificial love. Yeah. What does that mean? Um, it makes me think of um hating yourself doesn't sound like a voice from God. So it makes me think of that. Um, it also makes me think of this is why we need to share our burdens and bear our burdens with one another. Yeah. So that when there is confusion like that, with like what is this accusatory voice in my mind that's making me feel like I hate myself? So that you can process out loud with other people and they can kind of not point out your blind spots, but walk you through those blind spots so you're not blind any longer. Almost like discern on your behalf, right?
SPEAKER_01Not much different than what we say when we when we say like standing in the gap for one another. That's really good. Because if if you're if you have a blind spot, or maybe you're just in a season where something is more blind to you, excuse me, seeking good counsel, godly counsel, wise counsel, along with the correction that they bring you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Is that's that's love.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And this is what's okay. I think this is what's I like this very specific example that we're using with Niza's current journey that he's walking through. Because in this case, the truth being, your gender is not fluid. God created you to be man, or God created you to be woman. And there are not two genders that are ever in the Bible, man and woman. That's what was created in the beginning in Genesis. And so, yes, Niza is currently feeling all of these very real emotions, yeah, going through something very real that's affecting him in a very even like he's doing this publicly, which is also a whole nother thing, right? Um, it's almost like leaving opportunity and doors open for people to speak to that they shouldn't be speaking. Um, but irregardless of your emotions and your feelings, that we don't want to disregard. And I think this is what I meant by this is why it's a sensitive topic, because we're not trying to diminish how you feel, but this is why it's so important to be anchored to the truth, because this is what I know to be true from God. I cannot change that. I do not have the authority to change it, only God has the final say. And so now you work around that. That is your core. The truth, what God's word says is the core. Everything else evolves around that and has to come in alignment with that. But again, practically speaking, it's so much harder to do that in real time when you're going through a very real struggle. So it's like to have the compassion for Nisa and really anyone that's um living and walking in sin. Yeah. It's like, okay, well, how can we do, how can we walk alongside this person? But also, I think this is the other um element when it comes to loving your neighbor, is what's the proximity that I need to place myself in relation to that other person that's going through something? Right. That's the discernment. Yeah. Holy Spirit, should I be more involved in this way with walking with this person? Do I need to practice wisdom by maybe creating some distance? Um, should I say something? Should I not say something? That is the there is no uh, it it it it depends, it's circumstantial.
SPEAKER_01We see this often in the Bible, where if we think, I mean, I'm thinking about the Old Testament, but the Israelites would make moves without consulting with God first. Yeah, and then things don't work out for them. Like they in um where am I right now? Samuel. They're fighting against the Philistines and they're not winning. And so they're like, I know, I've got it, I've got an idea. Let's go get the Ark of the Covenant Covenant, the this the throne of the earthly throne of God. We'll bring it out here to where we're fighting as like a good luck charm, because that's what's gonna help us win. They didn't consult with God. Yeah, they were I mean, that that feels like they were practicing a different type of theology. And then it what happens? It the Ark of the Covenant gets stolen. The the Philistines stole it. So it's not unlike that when we think there's all of these like micro decisions. That we're making and we don't consult with the Holy Spirit first.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it it can look like look, I I understand and believe, like I feel like I have empathy for the people who kind of get wild at these things because when you are so devoted to something and you and you love something so much, um you want to you want everybody to know the truth about it. So it can be harder to to do it in in a in a gentle way. But I guarantee you, when you consult with the Holy Spirit, when you pray about it, first, he's never gonna tell you, go be condemning. Yeah. Go go make somebody feel bad. That that's not loving your neighbor by intentionally making. I mean, I can't say that because sometimes you correct people and they are going to feel bad about it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But yeah.
SPEAKER_03Sorry. But see, that's how you know though. I mean, I hate to say blanket statements. This is why you just cannot be led by your emotions. Because to your point, there will be times when you do feel a conviction from the Holy Spirit through discernment where you say something, and like you said, that people will get their feelings hurt. The truth is offensive, like we often say that. It could be very countercultural. But it's like, are you being fearful of man? And so you're choosing not to say something because you don't want to hurt someone's feelings, but God is telling you to say something. But then there's other times where it's like, no, you shouldn't say something because this is caused, this could cause more like harm than good. Um, and I think that's why there's just no one, like you just have to create space for God to breathe on that situation and that you're not speaking from like your ego, you're not speaking from your flesh, you're not speaking from like just like self-righteousness.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I appreciate Ryan Miller in this case, who is in a sense Niza Powers' mentor was at the time. I don't know what that looks like now. Um, that he he practiced discernment with speaking out on this, and has practiced discernment with also like recognizing there was a time and a place for him to speak life into Niza's life, and a time and a place where he's like, Okay, now this is not God honoring. Like you're not, you're you're telling me blatantly that you do not want to repent. So I can now I have to be discerning and kind of take a step back. So there's also a time when you speak truth to someone, then they reject it. But that's also love. That is love. And I think that's the the murky waters where we've created love to be something where I'm gonna constantly cater to your emotions all the time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm just gonna make you feel good. Yeah, and we get lied to too, like the enemy of the world, our flesh will lie to us and tell us just if somebody is mad, you're not being kind, and that's not the Christian thing to do. If somebody's feelings are hurt, you're not being kind, and that's not the Christian thing to do. That's not always the case. Like you, you don't, you can't make those statements, those judgments, unless you know what the quote unquote Christian thing is, unless what you unless you know who Christ is and what being Christ like is like. So the there's um, I think it's in two gospels, it might be in more. I know it's in Mark, it's in um Matthew, where this comes up. So Mark 22, 37, um, where the the Jewish leaders are trying to kind of like trip up Jesus by asking him, like, well, what's what's the greatest commandment? And he says, Jesus said to them, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law of all the prophets. And Jesus is quoting Leviticus when when he when he says this, when he cites this, like that these are the greatest commandments. Because when you think about it, really when you put it into perspective, like that is it. He's not saying everything else. Everything else is not important, but everything hangs on those two commandments. If you can do those two things, you can do the other ones.
SPEAKER_03The other things will be byproducts of this is why this is the greatest commandment.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah. And loving God first more than anything else, because you can't even love your neighbor unless you love God first. Yeah. Right. Because you you what you don't know love until you love God.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. And even I'm thinking about the verse where it's like, um like he loved us first. He did. And that's why. And it's when we think about I'll do this even if I don't want to, because I love you, Lord. I think that's what it means to have the fear of God, to have a reverence for God. Um, and that also feels like um that's what it means to like carry your cross too. Like I'm going to kill my flesh in any of my worldly desires because I love you, Lord. And I want what you want for me and what you want more than anything else. Um that is the parable of the sower, the thorny ground. If you're not postured in a way where you're honoring the great commandments, the thorny ground is when the ways of the world and the desires, your worldly desires, chokes out the truth. And I want that good soil. Yeah. Okay. Um I'm thinking about practically in our own lives, situations where we've witnessed something or a situation or been a part of a conversation where the conversation is maybe not God honoring, or even in the case what like a Ryan Milanese power situation would be. And it really is hard to um call someone out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Especially if it's a friend. But it's in the way where like we are constantly praying for the salvation of others, friends and family. Um this is the balance, right? I don't want to um push someone away. This is where people will say you're like being overly religious, but it's not, it's because I love you. And I don't want you to see you walking into your sin like this because it's just all not good, you know. But this is the balance though, of like, okay, do I just live my life in a way to reflect God's goodness, my life to be the letter of recommendation, so that they're like, oh, I want what she has. Or what's the time and the place that we're talking about? The discernment of proximity to someone. Um, or do I just tell them?
SPEAKER_01It's both and.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01There it's you can't separate it. You cannot separate it. Yeah. Because there are times where I have felt very strongly about like you know when you have Holy Spirit conviction. It's undeniable. And sorry, I could hear us, couldn't talking back. Um, you know when you have Holy Spirit conviction, it's undeniable. Yeah. And the um there are times where the Holy Spirit will convict you and say, go say this. You need to go talk about this. This is something that needs to happen. Go call calling out, I think, is even like maybe even harsh, but like address it. Talk to your brother or sister, share with them something. And sometimes you're gonna get backlash. Well, some just walk away.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Just walk away.
SPEAKER_03I want to talk about that conviction piece though, because again, that is the part. It's you say when God tells you to say, you go when God tells you to go. But you have to even know how to recognize that conviction and discernment, right? And so we've mentioned this before on the podcast to have a seared conscience is when you get that feeling and you ignore it. You get that feeling and you ignore it. God tells you to do something and you don't do it. And now eventually you're desensitized to his voice. So you're because you're so used to ignoring it, it's nothing now to ignore it. And so even if there is a time when you're uncomfortable, you have to say yes because you want to hold on to that sensitivity to his voice. And so oh, I want to give an example here. Um, I'm like, I have a few, I feel like I've mentioned this once, but maybe I might have been really vague and ambiguous when I've mentioned this. There was a time, and if you know me, I've talked about this so many times because I've had to work through it so much. Um, and really had to get counsel on this. There was a time in a group setting when someone was talking about something that was idolatrous, uh, ungodly, could have potentially led other people astray, could have potentially um opened up other doors and welcomed just demonic spirits being flat out. Um it's someone she practices sound baths, which is very much a new age practice. Um, anyone that goes to a psychic, anyone that goes to what they call a Reiki healer, anyone that goes to anyone that uses something that has been created to heal them that is not of God. I think that is a very easy way to distinguish if it's ungodly or godly. You don't worship the created, you only worship the creator, which is Yahweh, which is God. Um, so in a group setting, she's talking about this and she's like promoting it. And most people, maybe even those of you that have listened, have never even heard of sound baths, right? And so she's promoting it, saying that this is how she hears from God, this is what gives her healing, this is what basically makes her feel good. So it's now it's created interest in people. And I felt so strongly in my spirit. So, granted, guys, this isn't a group setting that um now I'm like, Holy Spirit is hitting me hard to the point. So if you guys are like, what does it feel like to be convicted? It's to feel something so strongly that you literally cannot keep it to yourself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And you know it's of God because, and in this instance, I knew it was of God because my flesh, I did not want to say anything. I'm like, oh my goodness, Lord, you want me to say this right now? Like it was so strong in me, I couldn't contain it. I had to say it. And if I said no to it, I would have felt that so heavy for who knows how long. And so that that's what it feels like to have a conviction sometimes and maybe a staticer way.
SPEAKER_01Everybody knows what that feeling is like. Even people of the world, even people who aren't believers, they would call it like their conscience or something, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, my intuition or whatever, right? So I felt that so strongly in my spirit and I knew it was of God, and so I didn't want to say anything. I'm literally like shrinking in my seat. I was even holding a paper, and at one point, at one point, I hid my face behind the paper because I was just like having a moment talking to myself and God and like really not wanting to. And so I finally said something. Um, and so the reason why I'm talking about this is because talking about moments of like being connected to the vine and following your convictions when you know what is the truth, and there's a time and a place to say something and not say something. And I had to say something in this instance. Um, and that was hard because when I said something and I literally said one sentence, want to say I said, we have to remember God is our healer. And then I just kept the conversation moving. But what was difficult about that is I knew that it wouldn't be be received well. And I didn't want there to be an offense, but that was the pill that I had to swallow. I'm like, at the expense of my safe, uh of my face, um, I will be obedient, Lord.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Doesn't matter the backlash that I get, I will do it because I'm being obedient to you. And I want to hate the things that you hate. I want my heart to break over the things that breaks your heart. And so it was incredibly awkward. And it was something that I had to work out for several months after that, because again, this person did not receive it well. And you know what? Like, I pray for her. You know, I do not want her um living lost in that way. Like, if you want healing, come on. We know the healer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm so glad you told that story. Okay. It's, I think it's just great. And I think that you've talked, you've, you've dropped nuggets here and there on the podcast, but you haven't been that detailed. No, I haven't. And it's it's it's good because it's exactly what we're talking about because it's not just mine and Kim's personality. We're not just quote unquote tough love people when we come to like loving our neighbor. It is it is literally the way that when you follow, when you follow Jesus, that it you don't know any other love. Like the love, the the greatest love, the greatest gift you can give to somebody sometimes looks like a little bit of correction. And correction might even be harsh, but like just a re a realigning, a re-guiding, an encouraging, and like a straightening of the path. So in in 1 Corinthians, I'm gonna read a couple of verses. In 1 Corinthians chapter 5, I'm gonna start in verse 3. So this is Paul writing. For though absent in body, I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus, and my spirit is present with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are del you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. That's great. Come on. That's so good. Do it is deliver this sinful person, like let them re- let them hit something uncomfortable. Deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the the flesh can feel what that's like, the destruction, and so his spirit can be saved. The way that so many people are saved, kind of at their at their rock bottom. But sometimes we are so we're so of the world, or we're so on the fence, or we're so I hate to use the word, but I'm gonna say it anyways, lukewarm that we're headed for the wrong place.
SPEAKER_03And so this verse is also saying what you just read, that there is a level of discomfort and discipline sometimes that needs to be experienced in order to be saved. And so I would say there were multiple things in that story that I just shared. There's multiple things that happen on both sides. I think for one, it really trained me to know how to speak up, even when I'm incredibly uncomfortable. It showed me that I'm like, I need to um humble myself. It doesn't matter what I feel, I still need to do it even if I don't want to, because it's I need to be obedient to Christ. The other part, too, was there was a level of discomfort that needed to be experienced in that group setting that people also needed to feel and to recognize and hopefully to like be a witness to others that like sometimes this is necessary. There's a time and a place when you need to put your foot down. The other thing, too, with like loving our neighbors, it wasn't just to correct her, because I don't even know if I said that to correct necessarily, although there was truth that was spoken, but it was also for the sake of not letting the enemy lead others astray in the process. And so I think that's the reason why you have to say things, it's so that not only that one person is further led astray, but also to make sure that there's not a uh a ripple effect. Like, what kingdom do we want to be expanded? And there's one thing to notice something and just to allow it to happen where it just continues because it's like, okay, what is it for me to be like? Um, let's see, to throw a piece of trash on the ground and to be like people litter anyway. It doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_01That's such a beautiful picture. Like, that's so accurate.
SPEAKER_03You know, like it the world, this earth is so polluted anyway. Let me just throw this piece of trash down. Who cares?
SPEAKER_01Because I know people think like that one, and I know also that there are people there are so many people on the other side of that that would be like, that's such a dumb way to think.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. It's no different. You can think that way. Like you said, that's one side of the coin, people might think like that. But there's another thing to be like, can we be proactive and not allow for like, yes, this world has fallen. Like, yes, people are lost. Like, yes, people do these new age like witchcraft practices. But if you have the ability, if you have the opportunity, I should say, that God has graced you, it is a blessing that trusted you for this opportunity for you to put your foot down to be a witness, you need to take that opportunity. I never, and maybe this is like a selfish way of looking at it, but I never, and or even like a way of striving, but I just don't ever want to be in a position where I'm like, Lord, I miss that opportunity. Like we are called here for a reason, and actually we have an assignment. And what if that moment was your assignment? I don't want that that that failure stamp, you know. I want to be God honoring in the way that I am fully equipped with his authority within me to do something. What are we to just sit back? Because you know what? God could just do and snap his finger and have his wrath come down on us immediately. But he has called us that we would be so humble that he may use us as vessels.
SPEAKER_01It it's it is a blessing for us. It is he blesses us with the opportunity to bless others, yeah. And exactly what you said that we like could be so honored to be used as a vessel for his Holy Spirit because he doesn't need us. Yeah, he doesn't need us to bless anybody, he doesn't need us to judge anybody, he doesn't, right? But there are these divine assignments, there are people that are put in our lives, our lives that we're were put in other people's lives specifically for these reasons.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it is we should be thanking and praising the name of Jesus for all of these opportunities. Every time you get that conviction of feeling, and look, we're talking about the hard stuff. Yeah. But there is another side of this where it is the good stuff, where you're blessed with um where loving your neighbor looks like really encouraging them through something generous. To be generous. Like there's there's things that are uh less hard that might come more easy to people where it looks like like just yeah, being really encouraging.
SPEAKER_03Okay, this is a good, I I like this. Because why is it easy to love people when it's like being generous, giving, serving, encouraging?
SPEAKER_01Because you get something in return. Yeah. Even though you say, Oh, I get nothing in return, that feeling that somebody gets it's that. It's the instant gratification from it.
SPEAKER_03The instant gratification, and also it makes you look good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You gave what to who? Dang, good on you. That makes it puffs you up, honestly. So that's love, right? To be generous, to be encouraging. Okay, now we look at the flip side. When it's also to love your neighbor when what? When now you don't look good, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Or when nobody knows, or when you're like how many times has the Lord tapped you and been like, give to this person and don't say anything. Don't say anything. And you're like, I don't even have five bucks. He's like, it doesn't even matter. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Give him$4.99 though. Yeah. Yeah. And I I think, like, what do you I mean, why is it when it comes to speaking truth in a situation where now you're the black sheep, now you're the one going against the grain, that you may receive backlash, you might be rejected. Like, why we have to ask ourselves why is it difficult if we know this is what it means to love, to speak God's truth? Lead people to truth and freedom and victory. Why is it hard to love in those situations?
SPEAKER_01I think everything can boil down to um seeking seeking first the kingdom. Pretty much everything. You seek first the kingdom. God gives you your identity, right? Your identity is rooted in Christ. When your identity is rooted in Christ and you are firm in Christ's identity and who God has made you, you aren't worried about the fear of man. You aren't worried about people how how people perceive you. And it's, you know, I'm not, I'm gonna say this not in a way to like to my own horn, but I was talking to a girlfriend yesterday and she hasn't dated in a long time. And she was saying, I think I'm ready to date, but I just don't want to be perceived by a man. And I was like, What? Like I had to ask her, like, what do you mean? Like, what do you mean perceived by a man? And she's like, Well, like, I just don't want him, like, if I want to sit on the couch for six hours, I don't want him to think anything or say anything of it. And I'm like, what? Like, I know that's how I felt. I was like, who told you that men perceive you? Interesting. And that's this is the lies of the enemy in this world when we take when we let other things tell us what people think of us and what what those thoughts mean and how much they matter. So that person that you think is like confident or cool or like collected probably isn't, but probably is very close to Jesus and does not take their eyes off of Jesus. That's really good. And they probably still have those same exact moments on the inside, like you were talking about, of like, oh Lord, I don't want to do this. This is uncomfortable. And even after the fact, like maybe I feel kind of bad. I don't know. But obedience is obedience. They call it the narrow path for a reason because that's great, not many people are gonna do it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Not in the way that we're also called to be consecrated and to be set apart in a world where everyone wants to be seen all the time and where everyone wants to be patted on the back and comforted, it is a hard thing to constantly be set apart for a lot of people. I think some of us have a uh maybe a more natural tendency to just not mind. But I think a lot of times it's very crucifying of the flesh when now you feel like the world hates you for what you stand for. And I mean, like, how many times, like, you know, just talking about social media and the things that we see, do we hear that? Um, gosh, what's that guy's name? Where um he used to live a gay lifestyle and he had an encounter with Jesus, got fired from his job for basically preaching the gospel. And um I don't know if I know who this is. I feel like you do. He's creating like this whole like dance, Christian dance thing. I sent you something from it. I'm probably doing a horrible job describing him. I'll send it to you. But yeah, he got fired for um talking about Jesus at work. And he was like, I think maybe I could be making this up, but in my mind, I'm remembering it like they told him not to, and he refused, and he just continued to, and so they fired him. And so I mean, like I think we like that is such a blessing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man. I wish I could say I got fired for my job told me you can't talk about Jesus, and I was like, never, and so they fired me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, okay, should I say this? I don't know if I should say this. I'm gonna say it because I don't think they even listen to this podcast. I'll be a little elusive with it. But the last gym that we were at, they told us not to have Bible studies anymore. I was not okay with that. Yeah. If you're ever telling me to shrink the truth to make you more comfortable, not gonna happen. Not doing it.
SPEAKER_01No, and it's all look, we can tangent about this forever too. Like it's all accept everybody, accept everybody, accept everybody until you're saying the name of Jesus. And then they're like, well, not that. And you know why? Because it's the only name that has any power. Because they're not scared of you saying these other gods' names in in public places because it doesn't mean anything.
SPEAKER_03Why is it that people, other people could talk about their religions and practice their faith, but Christians can't?
SPEAKER_00That's fine.
SPEAKER_03Hello. Yeah, right. Tell me the enemy doesn't have an agenda without telling me.
SPEAKER_01So now, how do we this is the world we live in, right? This is the the way that we experience things. So, how do we love our neighbors through all of that? Let's bring that back.
SPEAKER_03I okay, I think this is a big thing. So earlier we were talking about correcting, like when I shared that little story, I wasn't doing it necessarily to correct her, but I was really doing it from like my heart posture was one to be obedient.
SPEAKER_01It was obedience. The Holy Spirit said, Kim do this, and you said yes.
SPEAKER_03And the other part was I under the I was being obedient because also I really did not want other women in that space to all of a sudden think that this dark thing was acceptable. An open door, it's not, we're shutting it down.
SPEAKER_01So I think I miss I said Mark earlier when I meant the Matthew talking about the um the verse where Jesus tells us to love our neighbors as ourselves. Um, and it's because I had a Mark verse here too, but this is Mark 942. Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. That's exact you were helping that person out. That's exactly what you're saying. You don't want people to you don't want it to open doors. You don't want people to believe that it's acceptable or okay. The Holy Spirit also didn't. This wasn't just Kim. Like this was a this was a consecrated moment. And that that's like the Bible in real time working it out. Like it would be better for one of these people who causes my followers to sin or to stumble, to put a millstone around their neck and go into the sea. If you don't know what a millstone is, it was a huge stone that they used to grind. What are you grinding? Wheat. Yes.
unknownThank you.
SPEAKER_01To mill wheat. And it was so common back then. Even like, I think it's even referred to in the book of Job, which is chronologically like way before, way before Jesus was walking around. So it was such a common um tool that everybody knew and everybody understood, but it was like a huge stone where like that's around your neck and you're thrown into the ocean. You're you have no chance. You're seeking all the way down. Right, right.
SPEAKER_03I'm even thinking about here in Leviticus and 19, where it's basically listing out what it looks like to love your neighbor as yourself. But it's interesting in 1917 where it says, You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. Verse 18, you shall not take vengeance or bear grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord. So that part there where it says, You shall reason frankly with your neighbor, basically, so that there isn't more sin that happens from that. And so I even think like what that looks like when you have a moment of um, I don't know, like disagreement, maybe you guys aren't seeing things the same way, or even like you don't want to offend them by something that you say or you feel convicted about. But it's like I I think a big part of it is even like as we're talking about correction, right? Is like how you say it. And you shall you shall reason frankly with your neighbor. So like try to reason with them, like try to have compassion with them. Like, what does it look like when you reason with someone? It's not going after them and attacking them and being like, I'm right, you're wrong. But there is, I think, um, when I think about reasoning, there's some back and forth there of like meeting of the minds and trying to see like the other person's heart, even I think is a big part of in the process of loving your neighbor and being anchored in the truth, which is such a it's a it's a dance.
SPEAKER_01You know, um hopefully I can just say your name. I'm just going to our friend Christiana, who is just other like supernaturally blessed with wisdom in a way that it is hard to understand sometimes. She told she told us recently about how when you pray for people, you love them more and that it's supernatural. You're not praying for them necessarily always because you love them, but praying for them will increase your capacity to love them. Yeah. And I think about that, I mean, it's only been not even a month since she said it, and I think about it all the time. Every time I get this, you know, like I get I'm I am irritable. I am suspicious of everybody. And every time I get a little too, I don't know, cranky on somebody, I've thought about that of like just you need to pray for them more. You need to pray for them more. You need to pray for them more. And we want to act, or some of us want to act like prayer is lazy when it is the exact opposite, and that is a lie straight from Satan, that prayer is the most powerful thing you can do. It is it is um submissive, it is submissive in the way of like surrendering to Jesus, submitting your control.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And there is you first and foremost, always be obedient and listen to the convictions of the Holy Spirit, but always be praying for your neighbors, just as as often or as quickly as we want to encourage them or use our words to to them, reason with them. Pray for them in private too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. As you're talking, I'm like, first of all, thanks for that reminder, because that just convicted me. And I hope you guys listening that convicts you too. Like if you're feeling some kind of way about something, someone, continue to pray for them. Your heart will change. And as you pray for them, the compassion you have for them and the grace you have for them will only grow. I think also a reminder like those of us that have a spirit of truth within us, we have the eyes to see. And so when we look at people, so Nisa Powers as an example, we have to look at her with oh my goodness. Thank you. We have to look at him with eyes that are um compassionate in the way that he is hurting and that he is blind to this. Like it, it's not like, oh, we want to correct you. It's like, no, I pray that God opens your eyes. You are so bound to this sin of this lifestyle. Your identity is being perverted and contorted. I pray that God opens your eyes. My heart hurts for you because I know you are struggling.
SPEAKER_01And you know that God's heart hurts for him too. Yeah. And how sad does it make you that God has a sad heart about something? Right. Right. I think if that if that doesn't bring you to your knees, check yourself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I'm thinking about another reason why sometimes it's hard to love your neighbor and um how we're talking about saying things that don't just tickle their ears, and like why that could be difficult of like, oh, should I say this? Should I not? Oh my goodness. Because a lot of people, I think the um the rebuttal that a lot of people come with is um only God can judge. And so can we just take it back to the word, guys? Let's go.
SPEAKER_01Look at Jesus didn't say that. That was Tupac. Yeah. Just FYI, if you are out here quoting that. Yeah. Not the Bible.
SPEAKER_03If you have that tattoo on you, it's probably from Tupac's lyric. Yeah. Okay, so let's take it back to the word. Like, let us all shut our mouths for a second and just like read what God has commanded us. In 1 Corinthians 5, that you referenced earlier, too, it says here in verse 12, for so this is in the context of like they're talking about sexual immorality in the church, but in verse 12, it says, For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13. God judges those outside, purge the evil person from among you. That actually sounds kind of harsh when you just, I think at a glance, purge the evil person from among you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Like you have to preserve your righteousness and your holiness. Be mindful of like who you bring inside and who you surround yourself with, who you allow to speak inside of your heart and your mind. But here where it says, um, is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? And so can we also redefine what it means to judge one another? First of all, if someone is lost, you what here it's saying, God judges those outside. We can't judge those that are lost to the same standard to those who do have the spiritualized to see, who do know better, and who do have the truth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's different.
SPEAKER_01Let the Lord deal with the world. Yes. And you take up, you stand in the gap and contend for your brothers and sisters who are in sin.
SPEAKER_03And then it's like, okay, my brother and sister in Christ, you have a blind spot. This is also what it means to when we say bear one another's burdens, it doesn't just mean let me hype you up, let me encourage you, let me um speak like all these like words of comfort, maybe, and and to walk with you in that way. But it also means bear one another's burdens. Like if someone is in sin, like bear one another's burdens in the sense of like, can we walk through this together? Can we guide each other to the truth together? Can we be um disciple each other? Disciple meaning like to to learn how to be Christ-like together.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03To develop in your faith, to grow together.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And so part of that could be like, and again, it's like how you say it, and it's your heart posture. It's like, listen, girl, like I love you too much to see you do this to yourself. Like, I love you too much to see you hurting from this. I see where this is gonna lead you, the path that it's gonna take you down. Like, this is what the word of God says. Can we pray together? You know, and even maybe to like pray in private. And again, the discernment to like know when to insert yourself and when not to insert yourself, always to pray for one another.
SPEAKER_01With the Lord first, before opening your mouth, before doing things, consult because there is a time when you need to speak, and there is a time when you need to shut your mouth. And so again, it's like, okay, love your neighbor. Man, but also something that I just thought of. Like I'm sorry I interrupted you. No, I did you have something I don't want you to forget? You promise. Yeah. Okay. It says, love your neighbor. Jesus says, love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus doesn't say love your neighbor as they ask to be loved. That's really good. And I don't know how that's really good. I don't know what really even how to unpack that. Okay. If you're I'm thinking about it in terms of like putting myself in their shoes. And if I think about it in these terms of what we're talking about here, I want nothing more than to be told when I am out of step. All I want is to be in obedience and on the narrow path. And when I stumble, I want Kim. I want all of my close sisters in Christ to say, what are you doing? Get it like as I don't even as plainly as possible, as direct as they can. Like I want to be pushed back directly. So I don't know if I'm being incorrect here because I didn't read a commentary on this and it's something that I just thought of on my own. But if it it doesn't say love your neighbor as they ask to be loved or as they need to be loved, it's as you as yourself, as you love yourself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So think about how you love yourself. And in the way that you know the world encourages self-care. Like how what do you do when you're caring for yourself? Is like I I love that point that you just made because it was even so easy to just brush past that because we've heard this so much. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. If I was lost to your point, I would want someone to redirect me to get back on that on that narrow path. I'm like, and even so now when it comes to having conversations, how would I want to be spoken to? Right? Um and this is where the discernment really is so important because how we're talking about how we're wired so differently. I do like people to give it to me straight. And actually, if I'm doing something that you don't like, can you please tell me? Yeah. And we can reason with one another. It doesn't have to mean that there has to be this huge blowout disagreement. But can we reason with each other in a very simple way?
SPEAKER_01Out of love. Out of love. Like and a deep respect for one another. Yeah. But I think this is back to the body. Uh-huh. The body having somebody's a foot, somebody's a hand, somebody's a nose, somebody's an eye, and um, and also consulting with God and listening to the discernment of the Holy Spirit, because if I don't I think that God is so good, and He's going to send us those earthly vessels, those human vessels in in ways of I keep saying correction. It's not the right word that I want to use. I don't know. In in keeping us in yeah, discipleship and keeping us on the narrow path. Where if um I I believe that the Lord will send you the vessel that you need in that moment. So that doesn't mean always that you can be like, I like the direct feedback. I need I'm getting it, please give me the direct feedback. Sometimes He's gonna send it to you in a little bit more of a gentle space. Sometimes the person who needs the gentle person, he's gonna send them the direct person because that's how they need to hear it in the moment.
SPEAKER_03There's a verse that says the Holy Spirit will teach you what you ought to say in that hour. And so even if you have a tendency to speak a certain way, if you are going to the Lord and you are constantly looking for his guidance moment by moment, he will also his words will flow through you, and you can also deliver a word in a way that you normally wouldn't, that is out of your normal character. And even in the way where like my son and how I discipline him is different than how would how I would discipline another kid or like say something to another kid, you know? But I have to practice that discipline. Like, and also there's moments when Kendrick does something where sometimes I'm super hard on him, and other times I have to watch him and see how he's doing, and I'll approach him in a different way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's like we have to be so yielded to Holy Spirit. What do you want me to say right now? But the key is to not have such a seared conscience that you're never doing it out of fear of man. We have to really remove ourselves from these situations. Am I wanting to say something out of ego and pride? Am I wanting to say something because you have no self-control and you want to do it right now? Or are you constantly being yielded to the spirit and being like, okay, Lord? There's also been times when people have said things to me with like, oh, you know, I'm a whatever zodiac sign. And that's why I blah blah blah blah blah. And a lot of times I'm like, I need to check my face because this is making me cringe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then sometimes I'll say something and sometimes I'm like, okay, now's not the right time. But God is so good to your point that He will later present an opportunity where I could then address it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But to not be like, oh, this is making me cringe so much and to like verbal diarrhea it out, and now it doesn't land well.
SPEAKER_01This is, I wanted to talk about this because it goes so well with the last episode of intentions. And how your intentions don't mean anything. Yeah. Your intentions get it out of here. I don't care. It doesn't, it doesn't exist. You have you've been commanded by your savior, by the Messiah, by Jesus Christ, by the the creator of the universe, by our Lord, to do specific things. And in him saying that the two most important are to love God more than anything, above everything, with all your heart, your soul, and your mind, and then love your neighbor as yourself. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And the the love your neighbor as yourself too. Love your love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. What that looks like coupled with the love your neighbor as yourself. So then I even think about like when I love people, it's not just to be nice to them, but I care for your soul. I think that's what it all boils down to. It's because I care for the health of your soul.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Care for the eternity of I care for your eternity.
SPEAKER_01So love is the love that Jesus uses here is um agape. Agape. But I might be mispronouncing it. And it's there's um in Greek, there's like four or five different types of love. There's like a brotherly love, a romantic love, a familial love, and um agape is like the love from God. The unconditional. Yeah. The like ever love above all. Um, and that's the that's the word that Jesus uses in how to love God and to love our neighbors. And I I think it's intentional that he says to love God first and then the neighbors, because we can't love our neighbors. We can't love like that without loving God and receiving the Holy Spirit. Like it, it's intentionally that way. In that order, yeah. But love is you hear this uh often when people talk about marriage, about like love is not just an emotion, love is a choice, love is a verb, it's an action, it is in an intentional decision. Because if we, you know, my mom used to tell me, like, don't marry the person that gives you those like crazy butterflies. Marry the person that you feel safe with. And because those like the that butterfly feeling goes away. And then what happens after you don't have that anymore? And then they're snoring next to you every night. And you it takes so much power from the Holy Spirit to not smother them with a balloon. Uh like that's why the love has to be an intentional decision. The way you love your spouse is an intentional decision because they're gonna do things that bother you. It's intentional. Loving your neighbor is also an intentional decision because they're gonna do more things that bother you, but you don't controlled by your feelings. Right. So you make the decision based on the way that you were commanded to live by your creator to love them, anyways.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's great. And I love how you pointed out the order of that to love God and then to love your neighbor in the way that you're saying that you can't love your neighbor unless you love God. And the reason is because what are you using to measure what is love? And what are you using as a measurement of what is good and not good? It has to be measured in relation in accordance to God. And so, again, to your point, love is not a feeling, it's not an emotion, it's what is godly. It's an action, it's a decision. Yeah. I love that note here. You put love is not merely emotional, it's an intentional decision and a relational responsibility that is great.
SPEAKER_01There's probably nobody that you love more than Kendrick, right? Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03Maybe your husband.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Probably 90% of your interactions with Kendrick are some form of teaching. Wow. And the vast majority of our walk with Jesus is him also teaching us.
unknownThat's great.
SPEAKER_01It's lesson after lesson. And we spoke a lot about you know discipleship and how that's also teaching each other. And that comes from love. And sometimes there's people who hand raise for that type of discipleship. Sometimes people don't get the a um opportunity to raise their hand because the Holy Spirit intervenes before they get to ask for it.
SPEAKER_03That's I that's like such a perfect example because a lot of also how I teach Kendrick, I really do try to do it as best as I can in a biblical way. You know, even talking about like using unclean words, you know, or having like grace for each other. Those, that's all like vocabulary I have because I love God. Like I cannot raise my son outside of that context. I don't know what that would look like, to be honest. And even my husband, how we're talking about like we choose to love them. We love them, but we also choose daily to love them, recognizing that we're in covenant. And someone said this at group, like a contract, there's an end date, there's an expiration. Your contract's up. Bye. When you're in covenant, it is never ending.
SPEAKER_01It's yep, it's forever.
SPEAKER_03It's forever. And I need God to walk through marriage and what we say is a very sanctifying covenant to be in. And when we say sanctifying, it's to make me more like God, to wash me over and over, to prune me, to make me look more like Jesus. Like we cannot, we cannot love each other apart from God. We cannot.
SPEAKER_01Part of what has what made me upset with these all of these reaction videos or people saying things about this Niza situation is there is this and I saw somebody else do it too recently. That sh and she bothers me, so I'm not even gonna say her name. Lord Jesus help me. I'll pray for her later. I'll pray for her in the end of this episode. Um, but the um when they say things like, gotta love that Christian love. Oh love how love how Christians are loving me so well through this, like oh yeah. I there there are no words. It's like they just don't have the capacity, they don't have the spirit of truth. It's just exactly like the exasperation and the sigh that you just let out because I'm not gonna I said this last episode or the episode before, like I'm not gonna baby you through your hard heart until I'm called to do so. And you don't get to define love. Yeah. You don't have the the measuring stick for it, you don't have the definition of it, you don't own the definition of it. And I don't care if you think that I'm what I I don't I don't care what you think, period, I guess.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. Um that's actually really sad, and I think that is again important why when we are we're talking about correcting, when we should say when we're speaking truth, when we're speaking life to people, why it's important to have discernment with like also how it might come across. Because yes, at the same time we are representing Christ and also to recognize how we said we're called to judge others within the church, not outside.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So it's not your place if it's outside. It's then if it's to an outsider to someone that doesn't have the spirit of truth, now either bite your tongue, yeah, practice some self-control through the spirit, or let's think about like, are they saved? How can we get them to receive salvation? So now they could have the spirit of truth, and as a byproduct of being saved and having the spirit within them, now we can walk a certain way.
SPEAKER_01Now they're a new creation.
SPEAKER_03Now they are a new creation, they have a new palate, yeah, a new mind.
SPEAKER_01I do sometimes feel this is probably my flesh. I'm telling on myself, that once somebody starts waving that flag and starts proclaiming to be a Christian, I'm like, okay, you've just opened up the door now. Now you've called for a certain type of judgment. Yeah. You're using this, you better. We're human, we're going to fail, we're going to stumble, we're going to do things incorrectly. Yes, sure, but let's not forget that verse I just read in Mark.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It says, Whoever causes one of these little ones who believes in me to sin, it would be better for him or her. If a great millstone were hung around their neck, his or her neck, and he or her were thrown into the sea. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's a whole nother thing where now you're like basically recruiting people to walk that path with you. And I think that's there's that righteous anger that should be there.
SPEAKER_01If you have been blessed with a platform, it's not unlike the way teachers are judged differently. Harsher. We know that. That's biblical. James, yeah. Yeah. Um, I can't imagine you having some sort of platform where you have thousands and thousands and thousands of eyes on you, believer or not, that you're not going to have a harsher judgment.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And you're constantly leading people astray. There is, mmm, yeah. I um there's so many like verses that go kind of throughout my mind as we talk. So, like we're talking about saying things to people that are not saved in Matthew 7 when it says to not throw your pearls to the swine unless they trample upon it, right? Like to also be careful. I'm sure it's in Proverbs too, to be careful in what kind of disagreements and arguments and like quarrels, like the Bible often says, that you get yourself into because you're you're trying to break through to someone that's blind, and you don't have the ability to um let those skills fall off their eyes. Only, only the Holy Spirit does. And so to not go back and forth in that way, too, like you really have to just constantly be connected to the vine.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_03I I read this thing where it says a quick answer can end a conversation, a good question keeps it going. So do you want to? I think the discernment comes from like, okay, do you want to keep going back and forth, back and forth? Or maybe if you're trying to lead someone into salvation and you don't want to push them away, to not always have such a quick answer either, but to have a good question that causes them to look within.
SPEAKER_01And the all of this started with Jesus being asked a question.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
unknownThat's right.
SPEAKER_01And then he him always answering with a question.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I'm thinking our real life, how many Niza powers we have in our own life, in our own circle? Um and how how are we responding and how are we uh witnessing to them is it in a godly way?
SPEAKER_01I would, if anybody is following this and has not listened to Ryan Miller from the Jesus People podcast post about his most recent episode post in response to Niza, I would encourage everybody to go do it because I think that I think it's very spir spirit-filled. I do too. He's doing such a good job and he has the example that he is modeling is so great where there is no agreance with what is being done. Firm, firm footing and standing on the truth, on what the word of God says in terms of what is right and what is wrong and how to handle that, and still loving somebody. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There's another pastor that has a podcast, and he said something interesting before where he's like his entire congregation knows that he does not believe in same-sex marriage. However, there is a reason why he still has a lot of people that live that lifestyle that attend his church because they know that he still loves them as a person. Yeah. And when they need prayer, they still go to him. But never once does he shrink back the truth and uh create a space where he's now tolerating sin.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so, same thing with Ryan, he's not tolerating sin. However, he is still creating space to like love this person. And I think that's really important. So as we live our life and as we have these moments of convictions, that we are remembering to never shrink the truth, to also not tolerate, you know, to not um permit or even for people to think based off of how you're responding, that like, oh, Kim will tolerate this. That's okay. So to not shrink the truth, but to still let it be known that we love you as a person, to separate how people say, separate the person from the sin. And I think that'll also allow you to not be bitter towards someone and to really have the spiritual eyes to see the imago day in them, the image of God in them that they have. And that and that image of God is separate from the sin.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Loving your neighbor as yourself is immensely hard and is a part of the sanctification as a believer, which never ends. Never ends. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01As long as we are the side of heaven, every day you're going to be pruned and you are going to be going, you're going to need to be washed, and you're going to have to have a new surrender and then a fresh. Yeah. And submission day after day after day, because sanctification is a process.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And even in my head, I have names in my head right now, people of um like, oh, this thing about this person rubbed me the wrong way. Like, we also, I have an awareness that that is not a godly voice and that is not a godly thought. So even talking in like to take this thought captive captive, to have it be obedient to Christ. We have to recognize that that discernment, let me love them, Lord. Like, teach me. We're not saying this because we're saying that we do it well and we do it right all the time, but to recognize, to take those thoughts captive and how you can better love one another.
SPEAKER_01This reminds me of something.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, it's might take me a second to get there. Okay. But in what you were saying, and then we can wrap it up. Wrap it up. I'm just like dragging things on. Um in taking your thoughts captive and making them obedient to Christ. Um, I had somebody talk through that with me this week and just really shed like so much more light on it to me because I understand both of those pieces, right? Where what's the address of that? Is that Corinthians? Second Corinthians 10. Yeah. So um I understand that. Take the thought captive, make it obedient to Christ. And I don't know why, but like me wanting to visualize in my mind's eye, like like the thought literally being disciplined, like, I don't know. And that is what I had been trying to do, like discipline this thought. I think I've even said that on the podcast. But how do you like really discipline the thought? And she gave me Philippians 4, 6, which is do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your request be made known to God, and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your heart and your minds in Christ Jesus. This is where it started to blow my mind. Verse 8. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. So actively replacing those thoughts with whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, commendable, the things worthy of praise. So having those moments of like when you're not, even just mentally, you're not loving your brother, neighbor. I don't know why I think he says brother and sister, sure. Well neighbor. And then you catch yourself having those thoughts that are not obedient to Christ, instead of like just being like, oh, this you're not obedient, like, okay, but replacing them with that, like manifating, meditating, uh-huh, really like spending time with and not meditating like in a woo-woo way, yeah. Like, we're not talking about that, but in the way that it was originally meant to meditate on scripture, meditating on God's word, uh-huh. And think about those things. And if you can replace it with scripture that you know it speaks to things that are true and honorable and just, I think that's even better. But if you're in a state of mind where it's not necessarily scripture in that moment, thinking about the way God is true and honorable and just and the way that he has worked, that you have seen him work in those ways and replacing those thoughts. And then taking that extra little bit to pray for that person that you might are might not be able to love right now in the moment, pray for them and then watch your heart change.
SPEAKER_03That's really good. I think that's a great practical way where it's like, okay, that all sounds great, but like, what does that look like in real time? It's to simply replace this not good thought that we're saying take it captive, but replace it with something that is lovely, that is good, that is pure, that is of Christ. And to also remember the verse before that says, you know, to take the thought captive, the verse before that it says the weapons of warfare are not of the flesh. So we don't we don't fight things in the spirit. So something like the voice of the enemy. We don't fight that by our own willpower, our own flesh. We we fight it with um the sword of the spirit.
SPEAKER_01Even when you see a brother and sister in sin.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Same thing. Yeah, that's great. We hope this landed with you guys, the love your neighbor, and that, you know, maybe for myself, even just to be convicted in how I love my neighbor, and not in just a way that is easy, but also in really difficult moments when maybe that you don't want to be obedient and speak up and speak truth. But let this be an encouragement that you don't shrink the truth, that you don't hide the truth, that you are unashamed in the truth because you have been given that authority and God has actually commanded us to.
SPEAKER_01And let me just speak on Jesus and how like I was just how amazing he is and how much he loves us and how easy it is for him to change us. And how it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be a scary thing. It's it's not like Jesus can change you so easy, so quickly, so abruptly when you're praying for it. I was a full-blown like misanthropist a whole a little bit over a year ago, like skeptical of everybody, didn't want to be friends with anybody, like just I don't need any any new people. Really difficult for with the whole like love your neighbor, neighbor thing. Cause I was like, just stay over there, don't even become my neighbor yet. Then I don't have to worry about loving you. That's so funny. And then Jesus just changes you. Jesus changed me, and now it's something that I get to, I am blessed with thinking about and meditating on and seeking him more in.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's really good. I wish we could just sit here a little longer, but I mean obviously we don't have all day. But again, like you even talking about that too. This is why it's so important to be in your word, because we don't ever want this one line that we say to be the end-all be-all for it, too. Because we're also not saying like go be friends with everyone. Because even Jesus would take three of the disciples into more intimate settings that the others, the other nine, didn't necessarily get to like go along the ride with, like in the garden, like the transfiguration on the mountain, you know, like all these things. Like Jesus had his three guys that were closer, or even like John being the one, he would call himself the one that he loved. You know, so there are again with proximity, like practice discernment and wisdom, but be be open, um, and truly just to be loving. But again, that it that looks so different. That looks so different for everyone. And I'll say too, like, I don't I haven't had many moments. There are some standout moments, but I it's not like it's a constant thing where I'm like, God is too good and too gentle to always like put me down at the cost of having to be obedient to him. Yeah, most times that does not happen, but when it happens, let's wake up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I was even trying to think like, have I had some like has anybody given me any sort of like harsher feedback or correction? And I don't think so, at least not yet, not since, and I mean before when I was a World, I think I got it more. And I wasn't, it was the like you were talking about. I had the rocky ground, I didn't have good soil, so I didn't do anything.
SPEAKER_03I do think though, like you're pretty unapologetic when you say something. Like I even think about the times when you share certain things that like you share with your family. And it's kind of like, well, you take it how you want it, but this is what I'm just gonna say. I mean, so I think that's just like an another way in the way that like you operate too. So it just we are pruned of different things in different ways. And so things translate the same thing could translate in a different way for each of us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Should we pray?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Oh, Lord Jesus, thank you. Thank you for your word, Father. Thank you for showing us what love is, Lord. Thank you for that you loved us while we were still dead in our sin, Father, that you still loved us and you still died for us, and we were worthy for that, that you chose us. Thank you, Lord, that our identity can be in you first and foremost. Our identity is in you, first and foremost, and solely, Father. I pray for everybody listening that that um, including myself and Kim, Father, that you give us opportunities to bless our brothers and sisters with um just wisdom from you, Lord. Just that there's the opportunity for you to use us as vessels for your Holy Spirit, Father. I pray that um our ears are open, our hearts are open, and that we are moving at your pace, Lord, so that we can feel and hear your discernment on how to approach these situations, Lord. I pray that you prune off our hard parts that make us too calloused or too gentle, Lord, that um we we don't fear men, Father, but we fear you first and foremost, and that um everything that leaves our mouth is to glorify you and um to bring our brothers and sisters closer to you, Lord Jesus. I pray for um everybody that I have unnice thoughts about, Lord, unkind thoughts about, Lord. I pray that you bring them to my mind more often so that I can pray for them more and that you increase my capacity for them so that I can love them better, Lord. I can love them measured against the way that you love, Father, and not the way the world tells us that love is. I pray for um everybody who hears us that they feel loved by their neighbors and that they are feel um compelled to go out into the world and um continue to be unapologetically rooted in the vine, Father, to stand firm on your word um and speak the truth. Yes, thank you, regardless of when it offends. And in Jesus' name I pray. Amen.
unknownAmen.