Half Way Through It | All God's People Say...

Ariana + Kimberly are back with another Half Way Through It episode. This week, they’re asking a question so simple, you may never have thought to ask it: Why do we say “amen”? What does it mean, and why is it important?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

I wish I was good with lyric like lyric writing because I would write us a halfway through it jingle.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Um I would love that too. I wish I was also good at that.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

There's lots of things I wish I was good at. I'm really good at writing songs for Delta fixing their songs all the time. But welcome everybody. This is a halfway through it.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Welcome back.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

This is Kimberly. This is Ariana.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Yeah, halfway through it because I am flying out to Korea on Wednesday. And we normally record even just like a couple or few days before we air our episodes on Tuesday, and I'm gonna be gone for 10 days. So want to make sure we have content.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

And prayers for Kimberly as she travels.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

10, 11 hour flight.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Korea.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Yeah. Direct flight.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

I'm so jealous of all the food you're gonna eat.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

So much food.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

All the good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Yeah. I keep telling people though, like, because everyone keeps asking if I'm excited. And the excitement has it's arrived. I'm excited. But it's just like it's um to some people, it's like I don't even know if I would say an exotic place, but just somewhere that is so different, but it's so common to me. It's just like going back home.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Yeah. You know, so that's what I would imagine that's what it felt like.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Because that's your first memories, were they in Korea, were they in the States?

SPEAKER_02 1:35

That's a hard question to answer. Cause I well, my first memory ever that's in my brain is in Korea. But I we left, came back, left, came back.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Yeah, because I have early memories of being in the states too. But then yeah, we'd go back. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

So here we are doing a halfway through it. Um, and everybody, yes, please send your prayers up for Kim while she travels for safety, for fun, for opportunity, everything for blessings, all of it. Um, but today we're gonna just do our our little quick halfway through it. I've said that probably like 10 times, marketing, but um Kim and I have talked personally, recorded, you know, publicly about how thankful we are that we were born into homes that knew Jesus. So even from a young age, even if it wasn't the way we walk out our faith now, there were things that were instilled in us that we knew from a very young age that you know, when it becomes that common or that normal, you just kind of think that everybody lives that way. Kind of like the way people are taught to do laundry or even load a dishwasher. Then you live with somebody else, or you go to another house and they do it a different way.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

That is such a great example. Like it's funny too because in the way like doing the dishes. My best friend uses like a certain, or even Jordan, like when you go to his mom's house, they have like a almost like a I don't want to say a washcloth, but it to wash the dishes, not a sponge. No, I I feel like it's more of it's more of a cloth, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Um, and so you go to a sister's house and she kind of does it the same way as her mom. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Yeah. And then I do mine a certain way. Like I buy a certain sponge and it's like the kind of sponge that I grew up with, just doing dishes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

And these are the things that we get poured into us that we don't even know or realize because it's so common.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

You've adopted it and made it your own.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

So there's a lot of Christianity that we have consumed or absorbed really through, I mean, inheritance or familial osmosis, just proximity. I was gonna say through osmosis, yeah. Yeah. And we don't realize that not everybody has had the same experience. So we were gonna start doing a couple of these halfway through it's on these things to just, I don't know, maybe bless people who have had questions or didn't, you know, sometimes things are so common you don't even ask the question. So today we're gonna talk about amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

What is it? Why do we say it? What does it mean? Um, and it took me all of 35 years for somebody else to ask me, why do you say amen? And I said, I I don't know. I've literally been saying it since I could speak, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Yeah. And it's one of those like real, I don't want to say elementary, but like it's such a foundational part of prayer that you really it's like to your point, it's second nature. You don't think about why you're saying it. A lot of things we don't think about while we say it.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Truthfully, though.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

So let's just start with the Hebrew origin by definition, what it means. And some people say amen. I actually grew up like Koreans say amen. Like I have, I could hear it in my mind right now, being in a Korean church as a kid and hearing the whole congregation at the same time being like amen, like at the end of like a hymn.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

I in um I remember it that way too in like in mass.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

So I think I probably said amen for like my childhood. I don't know. And then out of laziness started saying amen.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Amen. Does amen take more out of you?

SPEAKER_03 5:33

I think amen is, I don't know. Amen sounds more amen sounds more formal to me.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Wasp-y? Yeah, true. I would agree. Yeah. Okay, so the original definition of amen or amen is so shall it be. Surely and truly so shall it be.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Yeah. So shall it be. It it is basically, I don't want to like dumb it down at all, but from what I have gathered, is it's you coming into agreement. Agreement with the prayer.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

And with the way that um God will receive it and hear him.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

I also with it being so shall it be, and coming into agreement, it's a declaration. It is. So these things that you are praying, we are declaring it to be true. And with certainty.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Because in this, I didn't put this in my notes, but I think I've got it close here. In let's see, John 1413. In the ESV, it says, Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do. That's great. That the Father may be glorified in the Son. I think that I mean that's probably another episode, but why we say in the name of Jesus or in Jesus' name. But us ending with amen is agreeing or knowing that what we're asking for will be done.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Yeah. I also think I love that we're breaking this down because it gives you pause to consider and reflect and moving forward, think about what you are praying about. Yes. So ask yourself, yes, what are you declaring about God to be true? Okay, now that makes you want to like really think. What are you declaring about God to be true? Let's make sure that we come to him with the reverence and the praise and the awe and the adoration that he deserves. And then it also should cause you to ask yourself, what are you coming into agreement with? And so in 2 Corinthians 1 20, let me read it here. It says, For all the promises of God find their yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our amen to God for his glory. We utter our amen to God for his glory. So are you giving God glory when you pray, or are you just asking him for things?

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Yeah, it's that's another way of or another perspective, I think, to think about. Like it is an agreement, and it's also equally a praise to say amen.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Yes, that's great. That is great. I'm saying all these things in in worship and thanksgiving to you, God. And I'm declaring it to be true with an amen.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

So it in um what I read was that almost half, more than half, nearly half of the old testament uses of amen are found in Deuteronomy.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

Um chapter seven, where um excuse me, chapter 27, why'd I say seven? Um, the people are responding to curses pronounced by God uh on various sins. Each pronouncement is followed by the words, and all the people shall say amen. So just looking at it quickly, just pulling one of these out, um, Deuteronomy chapter 27, verse 1 uh excuse me, 15. Cursed is the man who makes a carved or cast image, idol, a repulsive thing to the Lord, the work of the hands of the artisan and sets it up in secret, all the people shall answer and say, Amen. Wow. Verse 16 cursed is he who dishonors, treats with contempt his father or mother, and all the people shall say amen. So God has given these statutes, curses to the people, and I think I believe Moses is reading them. And then all the people say amen. So they're all saying, Yes, we agree, so be it, truly, and praise God.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Coming to agreement with it.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Wow, that is the fact that it's in context of like, okay, curse B and then X, Y, and Z. So when we said earlier, amen is also you coming to agreement with something. Like, okay, this is the law, this is the commandment of the Lord, and it's like me signing on the line, being like, Amen.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

That's good. Actually, that's what we should think about. Yeah, that's what an amen is.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

It is signing you're you're coming into agreement. It is, I mean, we're in covenant with the Lord, and today people are so dumb today that like your word is not good enough. But back then, your word sealed the deal. So you sing amen, you're sealing the deal. You're signing the line.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

That's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

You're signing on the dotted line, you're sealing the deal. Amen. Yeah. So be it. What are you saying amen to? Yeah, that's another thing.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

That's another, yeah. Cause how we could be so loose with our words and to say things in vain. So, I mean, how many times do we almost use it as like not a filler word, but just as like a um uh what's the word? Um help me out here. It starts with an E. It's on the tip of my hand.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Anyway, I think I know the word you're thinking of, and it's also escaping me.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

But to to use that as just like when says someone says something and be like, amen, amen to that. Yeah, okay, well, really, yeah, that's great. Um, when we say amen to, we're also expressing our confidence in God.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

For him to deliver something, for us to have faith in him about something, uh, even confidence in God's goodness. So, for example, in the context of Deuteronomy 27, where it says something like, it could sound harsh, cursed be the man who makes a carved or cast metal image, an abomination to the Lord, a thing made by hands of craftsmen, sets it up in secret, and all the people shall answer and say amen. To be like, okay, this commandment, cursed be the man who makes a carved or cast metal image, curse be the man that does that. And then for all the people to say amen, you're also believing in God's goodness. That as we've said in the episode before, God's commandments and his precepts are what actually protect us. So to believe that this commandment for us to say amen, like we also trust you to be so good, God, that this commandment will say amen to it because what we're declaring also your faithfulness and our confidence in who you are and what you tell us is the best.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

And so anything that comes from you is good and we agree.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Yeah, yeah. That's really great.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

So be it.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Yeah, I like how um you're saying that a friend asked you like what does it mean to say amen? I feel like we should have more of those moments of not just assuming that someone knows, even not assuming that someone is saved, to be honest. I think that's something that I've thought about even with Bible studies at the house. I need to never ever assume that everyone is saved. And to never assume that everyone knows what amen means, you know.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Even as something as small as that. I said a couple episodes ago, and I this is still like heavy on me. I don't know why about like removing all subjectivity and making the in the layman's terms I want to use, like dumb it down, which is not a good way of saying that. Like it's not simplify it for people who can't understand. It's removing subjectivity so that it's there's no misinterpretation, so there's that we can agree and understand on the truth that God has given us and not the truth that we have tried to force I don't know, the truth that we that we've come to agreement with through our experiences. You know what I mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

But yeah, not there's something to that of don't make assumptions that everybody knows things. Yeah. And when you explain it or remove the subjectivity, I'm being reminded of something right now. When you do that, not to um don't be worried that the other person is gonna take offense to it, yeah. Or that you're doing it in a way that's gonna make them feel bad about themselves because it's really you're doing them a favor, even if they already know it.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Yeah, yeah. Um, us talking about removing the subjectivity and to not assume that someone knows, I think there's two ends of the spectrum on this. Don't assume that someone already knows, but also um, because by doing that, you do kind of have to break it down to the the most basic level, right? On the other end, if you do already know, don't think that like this is so basic. Yes, like there's other people in the room that need to hear it, but also there's still something that you can glean from it. You don't you can't ever possibly know everything.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

Okay, I'm gonna tell you what I just thought of while I was saying that, and I'm an out myself because honestly, shame on me and Lord forgive me. And I I did I did repent from this because I immediately felt bad. I went to the Bible store last week, Frankie and I, and I was bought I was gonna buy a Bible for a a friend of mine who is uh an intelligent person who so who knows theological things from I don't know, like scholastically, I don't academically from having exposure to different things spiritually. Yeah, exactly. Um, and I was going back and forth about what translation of the Bible to get her.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

And I was like, I don't want, I want her to get it, to understand it in um a really digestible way, but I don't want to get her a paraphrase. I was even like, I don't even want to get her a thought for thought. And I'm making assumptions that everybody knows the differences of the translations right now, but that's for another time. So I'm at this Bible store and there's a handful of women in there working, honestly, too many women for the size of the store. There's a lot of women in there. They were awesome though. And I asked one of them, I said, Can I ask you a question? I'm looking to buy a Bible for a girlfriend who is not a Christian. Um, and I'm thinking maybe probably an NIV or an ESV. Um, but I also want her to be able to understand it. So I don't want to get her like an NLT, but I do, I don't want to spend a lot of money on it in case she doesn't want it. I was kind of word vomiting on her. And then she started, she was like, okay, well, and started explaining to me the different translations and what they what they were, where they came from, and what they meant. And my first thought was like, Oh my lady, I know what I'm doing. Like, did I not say enough buzzwords here for you to pick up? Like, come on, like, look around. And then I immediately like I had that feeling and thank God though, genuinely praise the Lord. The Holy Spirit was like, knock it off. Like it got to me quickly and was like, listen to everything this woman says, stop. And there what kind of like sparked it for me was she I don't know if my facial expression changed or what I did, because she halfway through, she was like, I actually don't know a whole lot. And and maybe you do, you might know more than me about this, but this is what I'm thinking. And she actually confirmed something for me, and and and we went through and were looking at the translations, and I bought this Bible that I'm so happy I did that I ended up buying an NLT, and I'm really glad that I did. But I'm yeah, I just we made both of us made assumptions, and I should have just taken what she was giving to me because what she was giving to me because she it just that is so good, Red to be so much more humble than that. Like, I can't walk in and think I know so much. Honestly, I am brand new here. I am saved what? Not even a full year.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

No, this is that story is really blessing me because I think it's even exposing of like myself, because and again, like I'm sure I've repented of this, and maybe I could do it again and again. I'm sure I can, because this will happen again, in the way that my own pride will that's this is why pride is a downfall of everything. You know, I have had moments too of like, I'm not brand new. Hello, but I am brand new, yeah. We all are, yeah, we all are, but but I think in the way I like how you said as she went on to further elaborate, that you were able to receive from it the number of times that even with um I love, I love in Bible study when someone brings a question that to them they might feel like is dumb. But as someone explains or as the conversation opens up from this so-called basic question, we all learn something from it. And so going back to like even what does amen mean, I could bet that most people in church could not give you the exact Hebrew origin definition. Or why we say it. Or why we say it. But everyone says it. And so I think that was a perfect example with that story that you just gave.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

I didn't know why we said amen up until a few months ago, and I tried to act prideful to a woman at a Bible store explaining to me what the difference translations are. Like, oh yeah. Like, I know that has nothing to do with talking about what amen means, but yeah, but it's great.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

I think it fits perfectly.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Not assuming that you know everything or that everybody else in the room does, or that anybody does.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Well, you know what? And that it's a perfect um contrast, if you want to say, to like why we say amen. Like so, talking about pride and being humble and having humility, all those things. When we come before God in prayer, it needs to be just like that with humility, yeah, with you are so unworthy to come before the throne of God. And then when we say amen, it is for God's glory.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

Yeah, it it is you have been given a matchless gift to even be able to come before the throne of God and live.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Yeah, and live. And so recap, when we say amen, it is um so shall it be. It is truly, you're really signing the line there. It's even more simply put, it's saying yes, saying it is so. It is saying what I what I am declaring is to be true, and not even declaring to be what is true now, but declaring what will be and what is to come in the name of Jesus. In the name of Jesus, amen.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

In the name of Jesus, amen.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

In the name of Jesus, it will be so. Yes. Because of the power and the authority that is in the name of Jesus. That's a whole nother thing that we can go down. Like we say these prayers and we come before him, not again on our own merit, but in the name of Jesus, I can come before you. And in the name of Jesus, let it be so. Because outside of our labor is in vain, but our labor in the Lord is never in vain. First Corinthians 15, 58.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

That's great.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Yeah. Um, kind of a funny story. I thought this was really, really cute. Uh Jordan was saying that when he was a kid, that at the end of prayers, how you would say, like in Jesus' name, I'm amen. And how we were saying that we would say amen. Like we've been saying amen our whole whole lives and we didn't know why. And it just would kind of flow off your tongue. So for the longest time when he was a kid, he thought what people were saying when they were saying Jesus' name, amen, that it was name amen.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Name amen.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

And so instead of it being amen, he would say name amen.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

That's so cute. Name amen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

And I don't know how old he wasn't until he like realized what people were actually saying. But name amen.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

I'm just kind of blown away that he was praying like that at such a young age that he didn't even realize it what he was saying.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

That's precious.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Yeah. Talk about spiritual deposits.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Yeah. Yeah. I should ask him how long it took him. There's lots of words that I mispronounced as a kid that I never even realized. Um, my mom listens to this episode, and I'm sure she probably still says it like this and doesn't even realize that she says it incorrectly. But up until I was in my 20s, I used to call it an end table, an and table. Because that's how my mom says it.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

The and table.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

It's an and table. Yeah. But it's an end table. Even uh I still don't know which one it is, but I want to say it's peephole. The hole through a door where you look to see who's knocking on your door.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

The peephole.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Yeah, that it's a it's called a peep hole. I used to call it a peek hole.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

The peak hole.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

I'm like, that makes more sense though. You're like peeking through the hole. It's a peek hole, but it's a peephole.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

I love the way vast majorities of people mispronounce the like actual term for a wiener dog. It's a dochin.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

And because of the way it's spelled, so many people call it a dash hound.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm like, is it not called a wiener dog? I say wiener dog. That's not like be safe.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Yeah. But a dochin, a dash hound. Yeah. That's funny. I wish I could come up with something funny that I used to mispronounce. I can't think of anything yet.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

It'll come up later, I'm sure. Um text it to me.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

This is I'll end here.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

I don't need to always bring it back to me. But um when I was very little, my mom and my grandma had a dog that I only remember because of people telling me stories. And my and we would talk about this dog as I had gotten older. And I always called the dog, knowing the dog's name, Dotie. The dog's name was Dotie. And everybody would talk to me about, oh, do you remember when Dotie did this? Or but you know, that was when Dotie was still alive. And then my grandma, not my great grandma, who would call the dog Dotie to me. My grandma told me, I think when I was like in my early 20s, that she's like, the dog's name was Dirty. And you couldn't say Dirty. So we all just started saying Dotie because that's what you said.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

So cute. Doty? Dotie. That's so cute. Who names her dog Dirty? Well kind of weird.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

I know Dotie. I would when as soon as you said Dotie, I'm like, that is such a cute nickname. It just flows off your tongue. Dotie's a good name. Dirty. Well, there are certain things that Kendrick mispronounces that I will not correct him because I think it's so adorable. So our friend's daughter's name is Mila. He calls her Neela. And my mom's name is Minji. And he calls her grandma Ninji. Ninji? Oh. And then hippopotamus is um, he says, uh, how does he say it? Hippo, not hippopotamus. Hippopopamus or something like that. Hippopopamus. Hippopopamus. I forget how he says it. I'll have to ask him to say it, but I love when people mispronounce things. Specifically kids, maybe not adults. Yeah. Specifically kids, because I think it's precious.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

It is cute. It has nothing to do with amen. And I don't know how we got here, but name amen.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

The people.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

Oh, name amen.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

All right. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Amen and amen. God is good. All the time. And it will be so. Whatever it is that you pray, speak it in the name of Jesus and seal it with an amen.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

All right. How about I give us a short prayer out there?

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Okay. Love it.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Lord Jesus, thank you. Thank you that we can come before your throne. Thank you that we can even say amen to you, Lord, because we know who you are and we know how good you are, Father. Thank you so much. Just, I mean, that's not a gist, Lord. Just thank you and that it'll never be enough, Father. Um, I pray while we are here, Father, that you are with Kimberly as she travels to Korea, Father. Be with her. Keep her safe. Give her opportunity to spread your name. Give her the wisdom of your Holy Spirit in just how she's going through the travels, that it's easy and breezy, and that she gets there safely and has a blessed trip and it's full of fruit and full of you in your name, Jesus. Thank you that you've taught us how to pray, and thank you that we can pray to you because you are so good.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

And with that, we say in Jesus' name, Amen. Amen. Love that.